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Topic: Self Control vs Great Thirstin
Message: Posted by: QwertyHero (Dec 21, 2009 01:48PM)
Aronson has a clever little self working trick which I think is called Self Control where the spec shuffles the deck, cuts a random packet off the top, secretly counts this small pack and hides it out of view. This is their random number, so random even they didn't know what it would be. They then pick up the remaining deck and slowly deal one card at a time face down while looking at each card. They remember the card at their random number but can keep dealing straight past it as long as they want so that you can't tell which card they were looking at. I think the premise of the trick is that they have to try and keep a poker face and not give away a 'tell' when they look at their thought of card. They then pick up these dealt cards, put them back on top the deck then replace the random cut pack they picked earlier. You don't need to see them replace any of the cards and you never once see the face of any cards throughout the trick.

You can then pick up the cards and find their card instantly, it's self working after all. I think Aronson mentioned as to what to do next, it does seems a bit dull to just pick their card out of the pack and say 'was this it?' I think he suggested using some sort of spelling to that card but it wasn't my cup of tea. I suppose you could dump the cards on to the table and mix them up while keeping track of their selected card and say you are going to try and find it randomly but even that seems a bit weak.

But then I remembered a trick I saw ages ago by Aldo Colombini called Great Thirstin. With this trick, the spec picked a card, replaced it, Aldo did a few cuts and shuffles or whatever then the spec cut a random pile of cards from the top of the deck. He then dealt two piles of cards, one face down, the other face up. After the deal he discarded the face down cards, picked up the face up cards, turned them over and repeated the two pile deal. Eventually he would have 1 card face up, his selected card.

There's one position in the top third of the deck where a card can be placed that allows this to work every time. No matter how many cards they pick up, you tell them to cut about half the deck, and if they deal two piles, one face down, other face up then repeat with the face up cards, it will always be this card. It's a clever little trick but like the Aronson trick, it seems to be missing something and it's not so easy to get this card to that position if you're new to sleights without it looking like you're doing something fiddly with the deck.

But if you combine these tricks together I think it seems to fit ok.

So the trick would be, ask a spec to shuffle the deck, then cut a random pile of the top, this is their random number. Then they deal a card face down one at a time while counting to their random number, they look at each card before they put it down and remember the card at their number. They can then keep going until they want to stop as to not give away the card they were looking at. They replace these cards on top then replace the random cut pile on top too. You can even look away while they do this. Their card is lost, now to find it.

You pick up the cards and fan through them. You act a bit while pretending to guess their card. You remove their card but then change your mind. This is when you replace it into the pack at the position of the Aldo trick for the next part to work properly. You can then pick a couple of other random cards out and replace them saying 'This could be it' then say no and replace them. Then you close the fan and say I'm not sure of the card, I think I know a way of finding it though.

Then you table the deck and ask them to cut it about halfway and proceed with the dealing face down, face up etc...keeping the face up cards. They then find their card.

To me, it seems better than Devastation because with that trick, they pick a card then choose a number, it seems a daft thing to do. With this, they choose a random number then think of the card. It seems more logical. You never once see the face of any cards and they shuffled the pack. Then they find it themselves after picking up a random pile of cards.

Blimey that came out longer than I expected. Anyway, I was thinking out loud and wondered if anyone else had used those two tricks.
Message: Posted by: BustedFinger (Dec 21, 2009 06:40PM)
Can the Aldo deal be worked in such a way that you would tell the spectator to keep the face-down cards for each successive deal? I think it would be better if the spectator does not see their selected card until they had only one face-down card left in their hand.
Message: Posted by: QwertyHero (Dec 21, 2009 07:31PM)
I had a look at the Aldo trick tonight and he didn't control the card to the position, it was already there. He fanned the cards towards him, glanced the card at that position then removed it's mate. So that after the spec had done all his dealing the card would match Aldo's prediction. He also said this face up, face down deal is exactly the same as doing a reverse faro.

It's not so bad that they see their card in the face up pile. At first they probably don't notice their card is in it then it will probably slowly dawn on them as the cards become less and less. They can actually see it magically happen in front of their eyes. ;o)
Message: Posted by: piraino (Dec 21, 2009 09:08PM)
Sounds similar to the first part of Overkill by Paul Harris, if I'm not mistaken:

Message: Posted by: QwertyHero (Dec 22, 2009 07:15AM)
On 2009-12-21 22:08, piraino wrote:
Sounds similar to the first part of Overkill by Paul Harris, if I'm not mistaken:


No, Overkill is a force, he knows the card you'll choose beforehand, it's a set up deck, the spec can't shuffle. Harris also deals a specific amount of cards then counts backwards to their card.

Self Control is completely different. You don't know the card, it will be different every time because the spec can shuffle as much as they like. Then they cut a random pile for their number. Then it is them that deals the cards and remembers the card at their number, not the magician. They keep dealing passed their card too, a random amount so that you don't know which card they looked at. You don't know the card they looked at but once they put the pile back on top of the deck then replace their random cards you pick up the deck and can find their card with a very simple ma thematic principle.

It's a clever trick but lacked something I think. Aronson suggested spelling to the card but every time you perform the trick the card will be in a different place so you had to remember a lot of sentences such as "This will be your card" etc..

I know I'm beating about the bush but I don't know the rules on here as to exposure so I doubt I can tell you how Aronson's trick works but it would be easy to discover. Just set up a chased Ace to King deck so that you know the position of every card then try the trick on yourself, it won't take long to work out the formula to how it works.
Message: Posted by: piraino (Dec 22, 2009 09:02AM)
Good points - there are a lot of differences. I just meant that from the spectator's view, there are a lot of similar actions - dealing off a hidden packet, then using that number to choose a card while it gets counted past. I do like the sound of this one though.
Message: Posted by: ThePreeningNinny (Dec 22, 2009 02:41PM)
A very simple but effective presentation would be an Open Prediction kind of thing.

If you know the position of the card, you can ask them to deal the cards face up and when they see their card try to keep a poker face, you then stop them and ask for them to deal the next card face down to one side, then to continue dealing through the entire deck. They don't see their card so the tension mounts as you ask them to turn the face down one over.

If you're into instant-stooging you can get a 3rd spectator to tell them to place the card face down, there's a David Williamson method for this on David Britland's excellent blog http://cardopolis.blogspot.com/
Message: Posted by: nlokers (Aug 23, 2010 09:00PM)
Here's a thought I had. If you do the self-control bit with a lot of shuffling, then do it again only swap out a memdeck, then the second time you'll know the card before they even get to it.
Message: Posted by: Picard (Aug 23, 2010 11:22PM)
Aronson's effect is based on a principle which you can find in chapter 14 of your copy of Royal Road to Card Magic called "Mountebank Miracle".

I think it's a wonderful principle but am also lacking something strong to finish the effect once you know the position of their card.