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Topic: Criss Angel Death Saw (live version)
Message: Posted by: Eshla (Jan 14, 2010 05:27PM)
I have seen and looked closely at the Mindfreak version of Criss Angel's Death Saw, and -like most things Angel- it is done with TV edditting and a full paid audience.

Due to the way a persons legs bend, it is impossible to do it face-upwards; and also (so far as I know) you need a "box cover" like in Copperfields version to perform Death Saw, atleast for when you enter and leave the device.

I refuse to expose any methods on an open forum, but can someone please explain to me WHAT Criss Angel does perform live? Because I am told he DOES perform the Death Saw live... but its definitely not the one he showed on Mindfreak.

Message: Posted by: Fábio DeRose (Jan 14, 2010 05:44PM)
When I first and last saw, it was done under cover of an array of creatures that doomed my sleep for a few weeks. A sacrifice-like scene.

It's been a while, though.
Message: Posted by: Eshla (Jan 14, 2010 05:49PM)
Ahhh, very clever; so that explains the "enterance".

Nice little way of making the audience think there is no cover.
But what about the fact he is facing upwards? (is he?)
Message: Posted by: Alexo (Jan 14, 2010 09:32PM)
Look up Angel performing the Sawing illusion in his special "Supernatural". It's pretty much what he performs in beLIEve only with updated characters. As for facing up it's nothing new and it's not impossible to perform. Siegfried and Roy used to do it in their show in a similar way and Brett Daniels did a similar illusion revealing the girl lying on her back without cover. Oh and if you're following an "explanation" on youtube the ones I've seen are all wrong in some way.
Message: Posted by: mvmagic (Jan 15, 2010 12:58AM)
Yeah the sawing is by the late Ken Whitaker of Creative Illusions, called ultimate sawing. Morgan Strebler used to perform it as well, don't know if he still does.

Here's a pic:

Message: Posted by: Chezaday (Jan 15, 2010 01:19AM)
Yes, that's the prop alright .. and Morgan may still have that one. The illusion Brett performed some time ago was a different method and the girl was laying face down. She was sliced in half with a giant clever then the boxes were removed.

It was a very cool version but, not the same deal.

Message: Posted by: CCPCris (Jan 15, 2010 05:04AM)

I feel that Criss shows might recive better reviews on CIRQUE if he would have stuck to his vision he had during Suppernatural, from what I hear, they deviate greatly
Message: Posted by: j.i.s. (Jan 15, 2010 05:27AM)
Who builder could make that Strebler sawing ? I heard that this illusion was modificate .Also Phillipart do the same illusion.

Message: Posted by: mvmagic (Jan 15, 2010 05:41AM)
I think Bill Smith has got the rights to most props by Creative Illusions.
Message: Posted by: Eshla (Jan 15, 2010 06:21AM)
Please note that the Mindfreak Supernatural episode was ALSO tv doctored. You can tell from the way the body moves about 40cm upwards just before the "saw" gets him.

I still don't understand where a womans (or Criss's) legs can be hidden though if he is facing upwards. The pelvis does not bend that way... unless the whole illusion IS done with the body "higher up" the table than it naturally would be.

Message: Posted by: j.i.s. (Jan 15, 2010 07:02AM)
Very very true aspect Eshla .At this thing I thought alaways when I saw the video.
Message: Posted by: mvmagic (Jan 15, 2010 08:05AM)
On 2010-01-15 07:21, Eshla wrote:
unless the whole illusion IS done with the body "higher up" the table than it naturally would be.

Click on the link on my post to see the same sawing and the body position.
Message: Posted by: j.i.s. (Jan 15, 2010 09:18AM)
Dear mvmagic I think that Criss's sawing illusion is the very same like the illusion from your link and the very same with Strebler or Phillipart http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXN-PYvsDP0&feature=related

Criss apparatus is just with other design but is exactly the same method like others .
Message: Posted by: Fábio DeRose (Jan 15, 2010 10:42AM)
Philip's method of overcoming the need of a cover is genius.
Message: Posted by: wartnerchaney (Jan 15, 2010 11:41AM)
CCPCris, he performs it the same in his live show (save for the type of saw) as he does on the Suppernatural special. They do NOT deviate greatly
Message: Posted by: Eshla (Jan 15, 2010 12:01PM)
They do deviate greatly, you can see the jump cut in the editting.
Message: Posted by: wartnerchaney (Jan 15, 2010 12:53PM)
Esha have you seen the live show? They not not deviate greatly. Was Suppernatural Special edited? Yes. Are there jump cuts? Yes. But the core ideas and method for the cover as well as the split are the same.
Message: Posted by: CCPCris (Jan 15, 2010 03:20PM)
Well from what I have heard, the CIRQUE show, is diffrent than supernatural. If not, then I would indeed like Believe, cause I liked Supernatureal.
Message: Posted by: serg (Jan 15, 2010 05:12PM)
Eric Olsen and John Uhern,from EDF magic build this illusion too "Impossible sawing",two years ago price was about $18.000. photo: http://www.jarrettandraja.com/gallery.htm Serg.
Message: Posted by: TaylorReed (Jan 15, 2010 11:14PM)
Ok here is the History of this effect.... I use to go to Creative Illusions back when they were up and Rockin... I lived in vegas for around 15 yrs and they had a shop and a few doors down was my friend Tim Whites shop called Clydesdale case company... This was handy at the time for magic people... Get your Illusions built by Creative Illusions and then around 5 doors down get your ATA cases made...
This Illusion was designed and developed from Kenny Witaker and Paul Haynes.

Paul Haynes built them and was co designer and Kenny,,, Kenny passed away a few yrs back... I remember that they were influenced by some of the old sawing a lady in half effects that they had in there shop from overseas... The kind where the girl would lay on there stomach and the big buz saw would come down and go thru a portion of the back but the girl would never seperate.... They looked at the tables etc and thought that they could do more with it... I remember this very clearly...
They came up with the Creative Illusion sawing.... The first one if my memory serves me right was to Seigfried and Roy... They did an excellent job with it and they had someone at there in house shop make the illusion come up from the stage on an elevator and then it moved apart by itself... They let Darrin Romeo us it in Branson, but after leaving the Mirage they had to all but cut the illusion out of the built in stage etc... A very big job..
This illusion is very possible to do laying on your back... And it's like doing an Illusion with sleight of hand or what I would call sleight of body... The dancers and stage hands have to really be on there game... I almost bought one, but it requires a complete team that is really working like a foot ball team to pull it off smooth.... Carlton and Company also performed it at one of the Desert Magic Seminars many yrs back just using two large swords for the cut...
Criss did it on TV with lots of cuts and all, but can do the very same thing live... THey just made it look a lot more intersting for TV>.. without a lot of the Sleight of body moves that can be boring etc...
And as far as the Brett Daniels version, although it is a very different principal and does start off with boxes that are moved.... The girl is laying on her back... Sorry Chezaday.... Wrong this time...

For the people that thought it can't be done, Well it can! All of the performers that you are talking about all have the same illusion from the same company...Creavtive Illusions.... except for the one that EDF built...
I like the EDF one the best so far...
Criss had a Company that I'd rather not mention who... Rebuilt his Creative sawing and they changed up the table and added the chains that hang and move on motors and this company also made a Buz saw... I'm not fans of this Company at all.. I will not mention there name...
Romeo took S and R's version to San Fransisco and had to cut the tables in half in order to get them in the very small loading dock and then rebuild them once they got them in the theater....
This is a great illusion and seems Impossible, but is very possible for about 12 to 20k...
Thank you and I hope this helps...
I'm going to order one from EDF now..
Thanks for the heads up...
Taylor Reed
Message: Posted by: RVH Magic (Jan 16, 2010 05:06AM)
Creative illusions actually build 2 versions of their Impossible sawing illusion.
one using a full B.D. sh... (Carlton uses this) and one with the f.k. L... build into the table (Like S&R and Criss Angels version)
I bought one but sold it to Philippart because it was really impossible to work with. (while the idea was good there where a lot of details that needed improvement that's why everybody who bought one from them had to spend extra money to make it work)
The one that EDF build is great and has less details to worry about!

Bretts version is very different and the girl is indeed laying on her back...
Message: Posted by: j.i.s. (Jan 16, 2010 05:14AM)
EDF version is not so practical.Almost all body must to have SH..

Message: Posted by: Eshla (Jan 16, 2010 05:45AM)
What do you mean by "SH.." and "L..."? I wish I knew the technical terms better :/

(PM me, I know this is an open forum)
Message: Posted by: Morgan Strebler (Jan 17, 2010 06:01PM)
I still have mine but, I've had to make MANY MANY modifications to it. IMO there are a lot more practical methods out there. This illusion can honestly be a HUGE pain to perform.
Message: Posted by: Fabricem (Jan 18, 2010 11:09AM)
I remember something similar ( no boxes) to the "Ultimate sawing " performed from Spina ( not Joanie),
and maybe there is a picture on one Osbourne's books,
any info on it?
Message: Posted by: Fabricem (Jan 18, 2010 11:11AM)
And that time was around 1970...
Message: Posted by: Laszlo Csizmadi (Jan 18, 2010 02:47PM)
On 2010-01-18 12:09, Fabrice Milella wrote:
I remember something similar ( no boxes) to the "Ultimate sawing " performed from Spina ( not Joanie),
and maybe there is a picture on one Osbourne's books,
any info on it?

There is a Buzz Saw illusion in the Haunted Illusions book from Osborne. If I remember good the girl lie on her stomach and not on her back.



Ps: In the Wels book there is the old Buzz Saw what Horace Goldin made famous but invented by a guy named Barbour.
Message: Posted by: RVH Magic (Jan 18, 2010 03:55PM)
Tony Spina performed a boxless center cutting effect whereby the girl is lying on her back on a small draped table and her center (belly) is removed.
Message: Posted by: Irish_matt (Jan 18, 2010 05:04PM)
Peter Marvey and Jorgos also have a no box sawing which looks pretty cool.
Message: Posted by: Fabricem (Jan 18, 2010 05:04PM)
Yes Rafael,
who know where find a video of it?
Message: Posted by: lucavolpe (Jan 18, 2010 06:40PM)
I think Peter Marvey sold his illusion to Yorgos...
Anyway, EDF I think is the best, I have one illusion built from Eric and works wonder..
Is one of the illusion that probably I will consider...
Message: Posted by: Falconer (Jan 18, 2010 08:03PM)
Hi Taylor Reed,

I read carefully your post. I have learned much of the history of the illusions in magic through you too. You have a very good advantage: you know very well the bigest manufacturers in the world in Magic.I dream to visit America, mainly, Las Vegas.

Message: Posted by: Matt Adams (Jan 20, 2013 03:57PM)
Does anyone know who currently owns the rights for this? Someone said Bill Smith maybe? I've had trouble getting a hold of Bill directly. Anyone know?
Message: Posted by: Bill Smith (Jan 21, 2013 11:26AM)
I have the exclusive rights to Creative Illusions Impossible Sawing.
Matt, I am easy to get a hold of, please call me at (702) 897-1224 or
email me at bs@magicventures.com.

The last Impossible Sawing we made was for The Nelsons, you can see
the Illusion on their website.

Bill Smith
Message: Posted by: Matt Adams (Jan 21, 2013 01:47PM)
Thanks Bill!
Message: Posted by: TaylorReed (Jan 21, 2013 10:11PM)
You can't go wrong with Bill Smith.. He builds some of the best stuff in the business.
Great guy with great product..
Message: Posted by: jaynet (Jan 27, 2013 08:45PM)
Just got back from touring and we have spent 3 months adding to Bill's fantastic creation
of the Impossible Sawing.
Thanks Bill
Jeff Nelson