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Topic: Goshman pinch vs. basic back clip
Message: Posted by: Platt (Apr 5, 2002 09:26AM)
I'm seeing a lot of coins across lately using Goshman pinch. I've found it much more difficult to control than the standard back clip between index and second finger. I also find Goshman pinch makes your hand look a bit more tense than a standard back clip due to the pinky position. I'm assuming the advantages are that it's a bit more angle proof. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Message: Posted by: MattSedlak (Apr 5, 2002 11:00AM)
With practice you will be able to have a coin in Tenkai Pinch (the correct name) and have very natural looking hands. It is a great position for walk-around magic where everybody is looking down at your hands. However, in a restaurant situation it can be a bit more difficult to get away with depending on how your spectators are seated. I would suggest learning all of the various back clips because they can all be useful in various situations.
Message: Posted by: Lonnie Dilan (Apr 5, 2002 11:47AM)
Tenkai or Goshman pinch??? Who's clip is it really?

I hear they both came up with it independantly.

I love the clip though, lots to do with it. so little is done with it except for using the clip to hide and add coins.
Message: Posted by: Dan Watkins (Apr 5, 2002 01:49PM)
Ishida Tenkai predates Albert Goshman.

Tenkai created it, Goshman popularized it.

As to Platt's question...

I prefer using Rosenthal Backclip (as taught in Paul Cummin's "Up in Smoke") which is a clip using the middle and ring at the middle phalange.

Comparing the two clips - they both offer equal amount of concealment, and both have the same bad angles.

For me, entering Tenkai pinch or Rosenthal clip are for all intents and purposes equal.

I find the retrieval of Rosenthal clip easier and cleaner and less apt to flash when rotating a hand from palm up to palm down. This is because retrieval occurs with the pinky reaching over and grabbing the edge of the clipped coin and pulling it flat against the backside of the ring finger.

With Tenkai clip, the retrieval in a similar rotating hand motion would cause the middle finger to reach over to grab the edge of the coin in Tenkai clip, when this occurs, it is much more possible to flash the coin viewed by the space created from the middle finger lifting away from the ring finger.

I guess to summarize the wordy paragraph above - I find it better to retreive with a finger from the edge of the hand instead of splitting out a finger from the middle of your hand (more motion, less cover, less natural, greater flashing).

Take a look at Baggin' Copper Silver or Lightning Copper/Silver in the videos section of my website. Both use the Rosenthal clip.

For an expert teaching on the technique, definitely get Paul Cummins' video.

Dan
Message: Posted by: Scott F. Guinn (Apr 5, 2002 02:52PM)
Dan is correct (as he tends to be when it comes to coin magic)--Tenkai created the move, and Goshman popularized it (similar to the Malini Subtlety, which has come to often be called the Kaps Subtlety--Malini's move, popularized by Kaps).

I further agree with Dan regarding the superiority of the Rosenthal Clip, and the excellent teaching on the Cummins video.
Message: Posted by: Lonnie Dilan (Apr 5, 2002 03:59PM)
you da man Dan!!!
Message: Posted by: Bret Parkhill (Apr 28, 2002 01:36AM)
What are some good books for learning the Tenkai pinch?
Message: Posted by: Bernard Sim (Apr 28, 2002 04:23AM)
Not very sure about books on that subject. However, I learnt the Tenkai Pinch from Brad Burt's video "Advance Coin Techinque". He teaches the pinch in detail and even showed a couple of routine with it.
Message: Posted by: wayman (May 5, 2002 05:54PM)
On Sol Stones DVD "Quick & Casual Close Up"
Sol tells the story of teaching Albert Goshman the Tenkai pinch.

Greg Wilsons' On The Spot teaches 2 techniques for getting into the pinch.

Also check out Jay Sankeys Revolutionary Coin Magic
Message: Posted by: groovy (May 7, 2002 03:49PM)
I learnt my Tenkai pinch from many of the Jay Sankey videos. He teaches the Scotty Yorke way of getting into the pinch which can be cleverly disguised under making a pointing gesture.

It's my favourite coin move and is brilliant for Coins Across.

Groovy

PS. Thanks Dan, it was late in the UK when I was sleep typing!
Message: Posted by: Dan Watkins (May 7, 2002 05:39PM)
Groovy - Just a point of correction - Tenkai palm and pinch are two different things. I am assuming you just made a typo.

Dan
Message: Posted by: Todd (May 8, 2002 01:41PM)
I just received Gregory Wilsons "On The Spot' video, so I'm in the process of learning the Tenkia pinch now. I can get into the move ok, but having a hard time producing it. Are there other videos out that teach the Rosenthal clip? Also, does anyone have the name of Paul Cummins video? Lastly, just a comment on Gregory Wilsons On The Spot video, it's great!
Message: Posted by: Dan Watkins (May 8, 2002 02:01PM)
As far as I am aware, the only video that teaches Rosenthal clip is Paul Cummins' "Up in Smoke" video. (Which also answers your question as to the name of his video).

Dan
Message: Posted by: Todd (May 8, 2002 02:38PM)
Dan, question on up in smoke. Most of it seems like coin routines. Are they real advanced? I'm just getting started with coins so I'm not real advanced. I guess I want the tape more for the Rosenthal clip. Can the clip be used for doing 3/4 across, which is what I'm using the Tenkai pinch for? Or would I be better off getting Ammars into to coin vid or something? thanks...
Message: Posted by: Dan Watkins (May 8, 2002 05:43PM)
Todd,

Up in Smoke is not a beginner tape. Yes it is all coin effects (except for one card effect at the end).

Two of the six routines are not very difficult to do - the other 4 use the Rosenthal backclip, which by it's very definition makes them more difficult. His "Invisible Hand" routine is one of the simplist uses of the technique, and the one I used first to learn it.

The good thing about the tape is that Paul teaches EVERYTHING you need to learn his routines. It is not easy, but you will get it with practice.

Yes you can substitute the Rosenthal clip for pretty much all Tenkai pinch routines - I do that personally.

Take a read of the reviews on my website at
http://www.coinvanish.com
You can read my thoughts on "Up in Smoke", and Ammar's DVD which you asked about.

Dan
Message: Posted by: Rcitgo (May 29, 2002 06:00AM)
I learned The Tenkai Pinch on the Sankey Revolutionary Coin magic tape.I also agree with Jay that the backclipping method is easier for me than the Tenkai handling. :bikes:
Message: Posted by: GlenD (Jun 3, 2002 08:54AM)
Hey Todd, Keep practicing, i have been practicing the 3/4 across since i first saw it on the same tape that you did and just had to learn to do that !! I agree with you about Gregory Wilson's "On The Spot" video, it's very good and has really nice impromptu effects on it. Thanks to some of the previous posts, i have more leads for additional techniques and "moves" to learn.
Love this site, thanks Dan :righton: