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Topic: Close-Up Magic Week on Letterman
Message: Posted by: Magiguy (May 11, 2010 08:22PM)
The Late Show with David Letterman
Monday - Friday, May 17 - 21, 11:35 p.m. ET/PT, CBS
During the first week of May 2008, David Letterman featured stage magicians Lance Burton, Mac King, Dirk Arthur, Steve Wyrick, and Penn & Teller.
And now, it's "Close-Up Magic Week" on The Late Show, featuring Jason Randal on Monday, John Carney on Tuesday, Johnny "Ace" Palmer on Wednesday, Steven Cohen on Thursday, and Michael Ammar on Friday.
Message: Posted by: msmaster (May 11, 2010 08:24PM)
I'll be watching.
Message: Posted by: phaddad2 (May 11, 2010 09:19PM)
Thanks for the info
Message: Posted by: insight (May 12, 2010 05:46PM)
Excellent, looking forward to staying up and watching this!

Regards,
Mike
Message: Posted by: tophatter (May 14, 2010 02:19AM)
NICE !!
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (May 14, 2010 08:55PM)
Tivo
Message: Posted by: epoptika (May 14, 2010 11:40PM)
I did not see any of the stage magicians who appeared on his show. How did he treat them? I know he appears to enjoy P & T but how about the other performers?
Message: Posted by: gaffed (May 15, 2010 06:04PM)
Sounds like something Johnny Carson would have loved to do!
He loved magic and it was his hobby aside from playing drums.
Darryl use to be a frequent guest of his amongst some other well known close up magicians who would also be invited to perform at his home.
I'll have to try and stay up, or remember to watch it as I don't have a DVR.
I don't think I've seen Michael Ammar perform since a lecture I attended of his back in the early 90's. Should prove to be quite entertaining!
Message: Posted by: Futureal (May 15, 2010 07:04PM)
- all this stuff will be on YouTube the next day.
Message: Posted by: magicofms (May 15, 2010 07:12PM)
From what I remember Dave treated all the acts pretty well. He has come a long way from the late night days and Kamarr the discount magician:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iYTVcCvTUs
Message: Posted by: kcquinn50 (May 17, 2010 05:26PM)
Five hours until "close up Magic" night one!!!
Message: Posted by: msmaster (May 17, 2010 05:43PM)
I think it was Kammarr that gave Letterman a lack of respect for magic, glad his interest has been renewed over the years by more competent performers.
Message: Posted by: BanzaiMagic (May 17, 2010 11:22PM)
Well, that was interesting. Jason did great considering Dave tipped the Masuada sleeve.
Message: Posted by: Stanyon (May 17, 2010 11:36PM)
The most amazing thing about "Close Up Week" on Letterman's is that magicians still try to steal Letterman's thunder. After all, like Oprah...it's all about Dave!
Message: Posted by: Daniel White (May 17, 2010 11:55PM)
Just got back from taping and Ammar was great!
Message: Posted by: Kevin Viner (May 18, 2010 03:25AM)
Not sure that Dave really tipped the Masuada sleeve -- do any of us really believe that audiences don't think that the sleeve might have SOMETHING to do with it?
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (May 18, 2010 10:35AM)
He seemed nervous to me in his hands; stiff and hesitant with a lot of tension. I also thought it was quite awkward how he came on stage with the deck in a strangle-hold. something seemed "up" to me even before he started; and obviously it was.

It also seemed like he lost his place during the himber wallet routine.
What he did best was handle Letterman's constant jabbering.

My guess is that Carney will be as smooth as glass.
But it is TV and sometimes the nerves can take over.

I wish all of them the best on a difficult evening with a difficult host.
Johnny had a lot more class and gave magicians a lot more respect than
Letterman does.
Message: Posted by: Rizzo (May 18, 2010 10:55AM)
I agree Frank. I stll think back what Roth had to deal with on Letterman. I get the fact that its his show and you "never" upstage Mr Letterman but his constant interruptions and his unnecessary unfunny remarks must make it uncomfortable for some.
Message: Posted by: Andrew Zuber (May 18, 2010 11:03AM)
I'm with Frank...Jason seemed very nervous...it was a little hard to watch.
Granted, I've never done TV and don't know the circumstances...I'm sure I would have been a mess trying to perform on national TV while dealing with Dave's form of heckling.
Message: Posted by: Papasmurf (May 18, 2010 12:08PM)
I think before going on Letterman you have to hone your dealing with heckler skills.

Along with the poor handling of the Himber wallet, I was concerned with the exposure of sticky backed cards.

I really felt for Jason and I know I would of been a molten mess in that situation.


Eric
Message: Posted by: Adammcd (May 18, 2010 12:26PM)
It was a shaky start to be sure. He did ok but was definitely nervous. Letterman did nothing to help. Ellen is great at letting the magic be the magic. While there were some things we could all nitpick on in the performance it was really pretty good given David and being on national TV. And for all of David's awkwardness it really helped the card box effect because of the stated awkward hold of the box then there was a bit of a break (time delay).

It's great to see magicians on TV that work in the real world. I like Blaine and Angel but their magic is not what the rest of the magic world can do or will do.

Excited for tonight to be sure.

Adam
Message: Posted by: Xpilot (May 18, 2010 12:34PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-18 04:25, Kevin Viner wrote:
Not sure that Dave really tipped the Masuada sleeve -- do any of us really believe that audiences don't think that the sleeve might have SOMETHING to do with it?
[/quote]

The audience tends to suspect any prop which appears to exist only for the purpose of doing a trick. If the presentation justified or explained some other reason for the prop existing then the question Dave asked might be avoided because it wouldn't occur to him to ask it. For example, you might notice that he didn't ask Jason if he could do the trick(s) without the wallet, or without the cards. Everyone knows what cards and wallets are and why they exist.

Not putting down Jason, just hoping maybe others might learn from it.
Message: Posted by: KevinWisch (May 18, 2010 12:55PM)
I don't comment here often, but I did see this episode last night and thought it appropriate to comment. To me it shows how unbelievably important using "non-gimmicked" effects is for a TV spot such as Letterman. If it's close-up magic week, it needs to be not only close-up, but world-class non-gimmicked sleight-of-hand. The quote "can I ask you a professional question? Could you do that without the sleeve?" left Jason absolutely no "out" or wiggle room and, no disrespect meant here at all, but Jason kind of set himself up for it by doing such an obviously gimmicked trick in the first place.

And, my thoughts as to never upstaging someone like Letterman or Leno- you're not going to upstage them- but you can get them to back off. How do you do this? You have to REALLY FOOL THEM. Freak them out. In other words, it comes down to one thing. If you want to really make a magic spot on national television work you need to act like, feel like and really be one of the best sleight-of-hand magicians in the world. Period. :)

Also- remember one final thing. I've read posts where we give Letterman grief for busting a performer's chops. Which, honestly, is a legitimate gripe. We need to remember one thing though- it's a CHALLENGE situation for the host. They aren't inviting a magician onto the show because he is a celebrity. Letterman invites magicians onto the show to purposely try to make them look bad. It's the challenge and the overall "ah- I got you now" attitude that sells the spot. American Idol shows this off brilliantly as well. Performers come to sing and then get upset when they are told they aren't very good. Not the same, but a "challenge" situation. And, whenever performers are on TV in a challenge type of environment- they'd better be good. Otherwise, they signed themself up for it.

So yeah- I'm looking forward mostly to seeing Johhny Ace Palmer on Wednesday- just coming off his appearance at Metro-Magic last October :)

- Kevin
Message: Posted by: Doc Eason (May 18, 2010 01:21PM)
Ooof ...that was a rugged start to the week.
Message: Posted by: David Todd (May 18, 2010 01:51PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-18 13:08, Papasmurf wrote:
I think before going on Letterman you have to hone your dealing with heckler skills.

[/quote]

Exactly. That's why Penn & Teller do so well in dealing with someone like Letterman. I think he's a little bit scared of them. (ever since the cockroaches thing. remember ?)
Message: Posted by: Andrew Zuber (May 18, 2010 02:35PM)
I agree...I feel like you should know how to handle those situations before doing national TV. I once saw Jamie Ian Swiss cut a heckler down to size in the bar at the Castle and it was one of my favorite moments of the night.
I must say...Jason's bio page on his web site is the most extensive thing I've ever read in my life. I'm surprised the guy had time to even buy a deck of cards, much less learn a trick with them.
Message: Posted by: Claymation (May 18, 2010 02:58PM)
Does anyone know how this all came together? Randal has been appearing on the show for some time so his presence is no surprise. The other names, however, I would think were chosen by someone well-versed in the magic world..
Anybody could have booked the Stage Magic week, as Wyrick, Penn and Teller, Mac King, Lance Burton and Dirk Arthur were all headlining Vegas guys when they appeared. But someone who knows magic must have selected Carney, Ammar and Palmer.
Does Dave have a magician on his staff?
Message: Posted by: The Burnaby Kid (May 18, 2010 03:00PM)
Am I the only one who didn't think Letterman was that bad of an audience? I thought he was being funny, not as bad a heckler as I've seen (notice he didn't grab the props he wasn't supposed to grab), and in fact some of his remarks should have been an opportunity for byplay.

Plus, I honestly thought his reaction to the final trick actually helped to push it over the top and rescue what was, to that point, an awkward experience.
Message: Posted by: BarryFernelius (May 18, 2010 03:09PM)
If I worked for Letterman, I would have started off the week with a bang by booking the Magic Castle's Close-up Magician of the Year. He's a Colorado guy, right? I've got his name on the tip of my tongue... :)
Message: Posted by: Munseys_Magic (May 18, 2010 03:18PM)
The audible separation of the cards from the double-stick tape made me cringe.

That being said, the ending had a great "kicker" finish. Even though Dave claimed to "know" what was about to happen, I don't think he did. He was probably expecting the five face-down cards to be non-Ace-of-Spades, but I doubt he expected a royal flush with his signed card.

Looking forward to Ammar! I'm guessing he does Triumph.
Message: Posted by: David Todd (May 18, 2010 03:19PM)
Here's a Jason Randal clip from Letterman :

http://www.cbs.com/late_night/late_show/video/?pid=GijDJGbd2aoCh7app6EV97rPQ8_AZTN5&vs=Default&play=true


Letterman messes with him, but Letterman also seems to like him. Quote from Letterman on Jason Randal's website:
[quote]
"To label Jason Randal a magician does a disservice.
You'll think the laws of physics, nature, the universe itself
have been suspended. He's as good as Houdini was at his best!"
-David Letterman[/quote]

(how Letterman knows what kind of magician Houdini was is beside the point I suppose ... or maybe Letterman actually does know what kind of magician Houdini was reputed to be and so he's actually insulting Jason Randal ? ;) )

http://jasonrandal.com/Quotes%20Page.html
Message: Posted by: BarryFernelius (May 18, 2010 03:28PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-18 13:55, KevinWisch wrote:
I don't comment here often, but I did see this episode last night and thought it appropriate to comment. To me it shows how unbelievably important using "non-gimmicked" effects is for a TV spot such as Letterman. If it's close-up magic week, it needs to be not only close-up, but world-class non-gimmicked sleight-of-hand.
[/quote]

I love sleight-of-hand as much as the next guy, but there's some bad news about pure, world-class non-gimmicked sleight-of-hand: TV cameras never blink (they can't be misdirected) and almost everyone can use a DVR to go over your bit again and again. I haven't seen much pure sleight of hand that could stand up to that kind of scrutiny. At least Masuda's WOW is a visual effect that looked great on TV. (Too bad that the trick puts too much heat on the gaff.)

That's why I understand where you're coming from, but I respectfully disagree. I'd put it another way: if you're going to use a gimmick during a TV spot, it probably shouldn't be immediately obvious that a gimmick is being used. You'd better have a way to bring it in and take it out that won't cause suspicion.

Also, the Letterman show presents some fascinating angle problems. Take another look at last night's spot and ask yourself: what kind of blocking can work under those conditions?

Heck, the number one problem is battling nervousness and dealing with David Letterman. David isn't a classic heckler. The problem is much more difficult to surmount. It's David's show, he MUST be the center of attention, and he has a disarming way of completely taking a magician out of his rhythm. When someone completely disrupts my timing, I find it difficult to stay on track. Letterman is the very definition of the type of guy who disrupts the rhythm of a close-up performance.
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (May 18, 2010 04:54PM)
There's an enormous amount of sleight-of-hand that is camera friendly.

I came away with a "too many props" and a "not enough practice with those props" feeling.

The sticky cards issue was beyond uncomfortable. I would have opted for completely different tricks and probably no gimmicks.

In a situation like that a plain old deck of cards is our best friend. Why not use them?

I know some folks think "flashy" is best but it looked like he had not done those routines very many times. Even the way he handled the wow gimmick seemed to telegraph the method too much. It was as if he posted on the magic Café, "i'm gonna be on TV, what are some good flashy gimmicks I can use for a TV spot?"

I hate to be critical when he's doing something I've never done and probably never will, but .. I think a discussion can be beneficial for all of us.

What did you think of the trick selection? Or anything else?
Message: Posted by: Mb217 (May 18, 2010 04:56PM)
I agree, bad choice of effect...Who's fault is that?

And yeah Barry, can't understand why he wouldn't have a guy like Mickey Silver on the show? Now he's practiced being absolutely angle proof and has it down to perfection. Can't think of a better close-up guy to have on there that would not only baffle Letterman into absolute quiet, and then wow the audiences in absolute amazement, without a gaff. :) Guaranteed, the world would've went wild watching Mickey do his thing.
Message: Posted by: Doc Eason (May 18, 2010 05:09PM)
Letterman was fine. Yes he disrupts the rhythm but so do a lot of audience members especially in a bar. He was not heckling... merely voicing what any astute spec might say in the moment. I thought that Jason might have 'handled' him a bit better.

That being said,
I am not sure that in the heat of the battle I might have done a whole lot better. I like to think I would have.

and with THAT being said...

There were several cringing moments in that segment.

red deck from a blue box, hello? why.?

Can you do it without the sleeve? oooof.

Is that a wallet? why aren't there any credit cards in there.? oooooh!

we'll do it with 9 cards. no, 7 .. suddenly there are 9 again.. ewwwww

loosening the sticky cards to get em apart SNAP! oooooooo!

and the effect was? ???? confusion is not magic.

The actor from LOST did a trick that was easier to follow than Jason's. He came off looking better than Jason!

Again, a rugged way to start the week.

Carney will kill.
Message: Posted by: Prof. Pabodie (May 18, 2010 05:14PM)
Letterman has gone on at length about how much he admires Jason and his magic, so I don't think he intentionally tried to 'bust' him. I also think Letterman was well aware, as we all were, that Jason was struggling with those aces and there was some sticky stuff involved. Letterman even asked him at that point, I believe, if he was making Jason nervous. I think David was being as supportive as he could -- and although there were some rough spots -- the audience was laughing a lot, especially with the moving of the coffee mug business that Jason was quick enough to capitalize on. I bet most audience members will remember that more than the mistakes we noticed. Jason also got a great audible gasp at the end of the Red Hot Mama-type routine.
Jason comes across as very likeable and I think that might be more important to Dave than the tricks.
Message: Posted by: kcquinn50 (May 18, 2010 05:26PM)
Wow...I fell asleep before the presentation and awoke after it was over. I thought I could just catch a couple of winks during the commercial. I won't be reclining on the sofa tonight! It sounds like I didn't miss too much other than cringing on the edge of the sofa and talking to the tv. I will make sure to not miss tonight's show.
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (May 18, 2010 05:30PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-18 18:09, doceason wrote:
The actor from LOST did a trick that was easier to follow than Jason's. He came off looking better than Jason!

******* will kill.
[/quote]

I thought the same thing about the guy from LOST.

I agree with the second statement too but I'm *'ing out his name so I don't jinx him (not that he needs the help).
Message: Posted by: kcquinn50 (May 18, 2010 05:36PM)
This is funny. Nobody knows the actor's name (Matthew Fox - I had to google it), but everyone knows the magician by name. Well, this is a magician's forum.
Message: Posted by: TKO MAGIC (May 18, 2010 06:12PM)
http://tv.popcrunch.com/matthew-fox-david-letterman-late-show-may-17-video/
Message: Posted by: gaffed (May 18, 2010 06:35PM)
The only thing I was able to watch was the clip that someone provided here with Jason performing WOW. I perform WOW myself but I bent over backwards working out a routine where I could justify using that plastic sleeve. Bringing out a plastic sleeve, such as Jason did, simply screams GIMMICK but perhaps I’m thinking as a magician would and not a lay person. However, as soon as David saw it he pretty much nailed it down as to some optical illusion and that must have temporarily stopped Jason’s heart as I’m pretty sure no one has ever said that before! However, at the end, it did seem that it indeed did take David by surprise.

I’m sure most, if not all, have already seen Jason’s first performance on David Letterman, but David had nothing but praise for him and he did a great performance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQySKzULNOY
Message: Posted by: KevinWisch (May 18, 2010 06:47PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-18 16:28, BarryFernelius wrote:
[quote]
On 2010-05-18 13:55, KevinWisch wrote:
I don't comment here often, but I did see this episode last night and thought it appropriate to comment. To me it shows how unbelievably important using "non-gimmicked" effects is for a TV spot such as Letterman. If it's close-up magic week, it needs to be not only close-up, but world-class non-gimmicked sleight-of-hand.
[/quote]

I love sleight-of-hand as much as the next guy, but there's some bad news about pure, world-class non-gimmicked sleight-of-hand: TV cameras never blink (they can't be misdirected) and almost everyone can use a DVR to go over your bit again and again. I haven't seen much pure sleight of hand that could stand up to that kind of scrutiny. At least Masuda's WOW is a visual effect that looked great on TV. (Too bad that the trick puts too much heat on the gaff.)

That's why I understand where you're coming from, but I respectfully disagree. I'd put it another way: if you're going to use a gimmick during a TV spot, it probably shouldn't be immediately obvious that a gimmick is being used. You'd better have a way to bring it in and take it out that won't cause suspicion.

Also, the Letterman show presents some fascinating angle problems. Take another look at last night's spot and ask yourself: what kind of blocking can work under those conditions?

Heck, the number one problem is battling nervousness and dealing with David Letterman. David isn't a classic heckler. The problem is much more difficult to surmount. It's David's show, he MUST be the center of attention, and he has a disarming way of completely taking a magician out of his rhythm. When someone completely disrupts my timing, I find it difficult to stay on track. Letterman is the very definition of the type of guy who disrupts the rhythm of a close-up performance.
[/quote]

Hi Barry- I hear what you're saying. I'm not against gimmicks, but I think if you're going to be on Letterman, it should abide by the 80/20 rule. (80% sleight-of-hand and 20% gimmicks). Jason used the opposite formula.

In other words, one gimmick or even a few is fine and it's a part of magic. However, they should compliment the skill on a Letterman type of stage. Keyword there, compliment. There were just so many glaring mistakes in the routine that my point was really that his sleight-of-hand skills couldn't overshadow the use of the Sleeve or any of the other gimmicks- at least on last night's performance.

That said, I'd also think about the angles argument. My father, Bill Wisch, constantly talks about Slydini and his opinion. According to my father, he asked Slydini once what if people catch me? Slydini's response: let them. If the skill is good enough, they'll be amazed at seeing it anyway. And, any magician worth their salt can handle someone knowing how the trick is done because there is an out for it. (My father has a ton of these- I've seen him use them on numerous occasions). Hopefully this doesn't come off bad but IMO, if a magician is on Letterman, they should be able to deal with angles and DVRs. If they can't deal with that- then don't go on Letterman.

So- with the angles, I need to agree with Slydini. It takes courage to do sleight-of-hand on national TV and thus, that's how you earn the respect from the host.

One other thing about Letterman- he's got the ego for sure. I've had the opportunity not to work with Letterman, but with Conan when he was on (not with magic and I wasn't on, but with other things in business). Conan did the same but the key is respect. If you watch the video back again, watch the one joke where the rhythm truly changed- it was Jason's comment that "and you handle it so well!"... the joke bombed and Letterman had this look on his face like "okay buddy, you asked for it."

Thanks for the great discussion though! :)

- Kevin
Message: Posted by: lebowski (May 18, 2010 06:53PM)
It's possible in past Letterman appearances Jason used up his A material for this sort of circumstance. My impression is that his stuff from other appearances was put together over a lifetime, and the material for this appearance wasn't as well thought out.
Message: Posted by: Mb217 (May 18, 2010 07:28PM)
Jason seems to be a pretty good-enough close-up guy to me but it's clear that Dave enjoys his company beyond the magic, and that clearly has gone a long way for him as far as their continuing relationship. Good for him! Whatever works - Just win baby! :) Or it's better to be a billionaire than a college grad any day, or something like that. :D

Seriously, Letterman proves that specs don't see half the stuff that magicians think they ought to see, even when effects aren't done with exact precision. Cubio or Wild Card would fool him and actually fools most laymen good enough. :)
Message: Posted by: Andrew Zuber (May 18, 2010 08:13PM)
THANK you Doc for making a comment that reminded me as well...why on earth pull a red deck from a blue box? I kept waiting for Dave to comment on it. I can't imagine what led to that decision (or mistake) other than Jason losing a deck of cards and needing to find a replacement in a hurry.
Message: Posted by: Doc Eason (May 18, 2010 08:33PM)
Mb217 I don't under stand your statement

"Seriously, Letterman proves that specs don't see half the stuff that magicians think they ought to see, even when effects aren't done with exact precision."

DL asks (politely) 'Can I ask you a question? Can you do it without the sleeve?' and "Does that sleeve have some kind of optical feature to it?" It seems that he nails the thing that magicians are worrying about it. YES the specs *do* see that stuff and have questions about it.. some are too polite to mention it. Not that DL was impolite last night- he is an astute observer who is not bashful about asking questions.

And yes... DL seems to genuinely LIKE JR.. I think that is the key here.. JR has earned DL's *respect* from his previous appearances. That may explain why he didn't jump on the red deck from a blue box thing.

I am popping popcorn for tonight.
Message: Posted by: Brad Burt (May 18, 2010 08:42PM)
Doc Eason's analysis was right on. It's too bad, Jason is a great guy and it looked bad.

That said....anyone coming onto the Letterman show not knowing what to expect from Dave and really, REALLY preparing in advance is ... well, just not....prepared in advance.

David Letterman is just simply not the nice, supportive guy that Carson was and nothing he's ever done vis-a-vis novelty performers of almost any stripe, especially magicians, hypnotists, etc. would prove otherwise.

And, I think that was the problem with the first nights performer. He was just not ready to have his performing rhythm put that far off....and, as pointed above, for Dave, the intrusion into the routines was fairly tame.

Part of the problem with Letterman is that you get the idea that 'magicians' are kind of set up, "Hey, come on the show..yes, we know that Dave has a reputation for being hard to work for as a magician, but he's assured me that the magicians for this week are really, really going to love it!"

Working magic, etc. for Letterman is something you do at your own risk. It may or may not be worth it, but you get a great credit. Even if you look bad, you look good just for being there.

I really DO miss Johnny. Best,
Message: Posted by: Benji Bruce (May 18, 2010 09:21PM)
I never watch Letterman and didn't know he was a heckler. He is a heckler on a whole new level and its very interesting to watch. It seems like magicians allow him to dominate their performance. I would love to see someone like Joel Bauer perform on his show :)
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (May 18, 2010 10:45PM)
Think of it this way..

There are certain card tricks that we all have done 1 billion times.
We know every single possible statement that someone might make, including letterman. We know responses to them. We have the one-liners, the gags, the jokes. All organic stuff that we've made up ourselves after YEARS and YEARS of performances.

We've seen it all. We've done it all. We've succeeded with great laughs to the point of people having tears in their eyes and peeing their pants in hysterics.

Why did he NOT do something that he was THE BEST IN THE ENTIRE WORLD at?

That's what I would do. Something where I honestly have no equal.

We all have that set of tricks where we are better at them than anyone else on earth. THOSE are the ones you do.

You do not cobble a few gimmicks together for a TV spot.

.. in my opinion.
Message: Posted by: lebowski (May 18, 2010 10:52PM)
Okay, we all agree with you Starsini. And if you have used up those bits on previous appearances and are asked to return during close-up magic week, you...
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (May 18, 2010 11:01PM)
Do the same damm thing or more of the same damm thing. The only thing you do NOT do is something relatively new. That's what (it appears) he did. Cobbled together a few gimmicks for a TV spot. why not do the same set? who saw it the first time, anyway?

I had no idea what that last trick was. I , currently, could not even come up with a plot. Cards disappeared from the wallet? but they were doing something in his hands but I cannot remember what? multiplying? I'm not sure. then for some reason they changed color at the end. but for no better reason than if he would pull a birthday cake out of his shoe at the end of the trick. I just didn't get it.

I would just do one of the sets from my strolling / close up set. simple as that. I have several sets I would feel comfortable with AS DOES EVERYNOE else that performs regularly. we have to. we must. it's what we do. if you perform regularly, I'm sure you do too. yes?
Message: Posted by: pepka (May 18, 2010 11:33PM)
All I've seen is the clip with the WOW gimmick. All I could think is, "I bust my *** to learn palming, passes, second deals etc. and THIS is what gets you a spot on Letterman?" The thing is cute, but it SCREAMS gimmick. I love Dave, but he can be a real jerk to magicians, unless your name is Penn or Teller. VERY curious to see how Carney, Cohen and Ammar handle themselves.
Message: Posted by: Nelson Hoofard (May 18, 2010 11:40PM)
I thought Carney was great. He flashed the orange but it wasn't his fault, bad camera angle. Other than that he was awesome!

He came on there with loads of confidence and kept Letterman entertained. Carney didn't give Letterman a chance to "heckle" him.

Good job John!
Message: Posted by: Jamie_H (May 18, 2010 11:52PM)
Loved the Carney routine. Wasn't expecting the glass dissapearance...nice!
Message: Posted by: teevtee (May 19, 2010 12:07AM)
First off Letterman did not heckle anyone. He admires magic, has showcased it numerous times and is interacting with the magicians in the exact manner he interacts with all his guests. To expect Letterman to quietly sit there with his hands in his lap is naive and foolish.

Secondly Jason not only looked foolish on this appearance but on every single Letterman guest spot he has had. I am not sure how he got discovered by them in the first place or why Letterman loves him but his ineptness is not something only magicians would notice, it is down right amateurish. Come on, he is performing beginner to intermediate store bought tricks and doing them incredibly poorly. Seems like a nice guy, God knows I could not do better, but then again I am not being presented on TV as some great performer, and frankly I actually think I would do better.

There was just not one thing natural about any aspect of his performance, he tipped the wallet method, blew the sleeve, screwed the sticky cards, had an incredibly odd handling of the shrinking case deck and on and on.

Carney was better but far from great. Flashed the orange in a huge way (and I think it was more than just the camera angle) but more to the point chose to perform a fairly confusing routine for TV. Was he bad? By no means, and VASTLY better than Jason but still a mile from where things should be.

Get Ricky Jay out there for God's sake. Get someone who can converse, entertain and ultimately amaze. Instead we have thus far had an amateur and a working pro who seemed in over his head... this is really the best the magic world has to offer?
Message: Posted by: teevtee (May 19, 2010 12:11AM)
One other thought that was previously mentioned:

Matthew Fox (the guys from Lost) did in fact GREATLY upstage Jason with what was actually quite a nice trick. Letterman did not take this seriously but what does it say when an actor can recall a trick from when he was a kid and out perform the pro?
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Brown (May 19, 2010 12:12AM)
Carney was great...the bits with the wand- beautiful. Sure the orange flashed, but through it all, Letterman didn't see it. He was still just as amazed. The home audience lost out on that one, but his key audience (Letterman) was fooled, and I would rather flash that orange, than do what Randal did. His demeanor and technique were impeccable! And he was so undaunted...I think Letterman felt a little bad tonight about busting Randal's balls, so he was a little standoffish with heckling Carney, but if you look at it, Carney gave him no reason, let alone a moment to give him any flack. Very enjoyable performance. I was a little let down though- during one of the "preview: scenes before commercial break they said, "...and John Carney," and showed a clip of him standing up doing Zone Zero, but they didn't include that in the performance segment!! That would have been a great one! Oh well. Still enjoyed it thoroughly!

Jonathan Brown
Message: Posted by: Magicmike1949 (May 19, 2010 12:18AM)
There is no magician I admire more than John Carney, but I have to say that tonight he seemed nervous ( his hands were noticeably trembling) and the darn camera angles badly flashed both the orange and coconut loads. That should have all been worked out in rehearsal. The overhead camera gave clear views of where things were coming from. That wasn't John's fault, but it was abysmal for the home viewing audience. Only thing worse was the night before, for all the reasons that Doc Eason and others have already pointed out. This has been painful so far.
Message: Posted by: Magic Mike Japan (May 19, 2010 02:39AM)
I saw Jason Randal perform on the Letterman show. He performed the Wow trick pretty much the way I do it, however, I usually have the dirty work done while the gimmick is in the participant's hand to make it more believable. In any case, I'm surprised he used this gimmick on a popular, national t.v. show since I've seen so many knock-offs sold for $1 over here in Asia in every 100 Yen shop. The trick was great at one time, but has been seriously overexposed due to knock-offs. I agree with the other bloggers that he should not have done that trick with Letterman. But the good thing is that magic is getting good billing on t.v. now, so it's all good.
Message: Posted by: lebowski (May 19, 2010 02:39AM)
I'd like to think I'm wrong, but if a guy like Carney has visible nerves it makes me think Letterman's show isn't as accomodating in one way or another as it could be. Or maybe it's just that some of our great close-up magicians don't get enough opportunities on tv to get really good at it.
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (May 19, 2010 02:52AM)
I think the orange flashed because the camera shot switched to one directly overhead instead of where it was the rest of the time. you would think they would edit that out from the TV show. Why wouldn't they?

much better than the night before.

also, the tiny strange-multi-level area of the desk is completely ridiculous. With all the money they have to do the show you'd think they would give the magicians a better performance surface. the chair also seems quite uncomfortable to be doing a magic set from.
Message: Posted by: lebowski (May 19, 2010 02:55AM)
Like I said, perhaps not as accomodating as they could be.
Message: Posted by: Stanyon (May 19, 2010 06:25AM)
I don't normally watch Letterman, I don't really care for him or his style(?), but since this was "Close Up Magic Week" I thought I'd give it a go to see if there was any change since David Roth was mugged on camera. Nope nothing changed. I wonder if Letterman interacts the same way with musicians or singers. Someone should try to explain to Letterman to just shut up and let the magic happen.

JMHO
Message: Posted by: jazzy snazzy (May 19, 2010 06:31AM)
You're right lebowski, Frank and Stanyon. John Carney is my hero of the week. I thought he did a great job considering the absolutely appalling working conditions they foisted on him. Found myself holding my breath for him the whole time.
They used to bring magicians out to a separate table, a much better idea.

Edits or alternate takes on a show of that type are extremely rare. It is timed to the second and difficult to adjust once it starts.

Letterman tends to get quite rude with magicians. Gazzo would take care of him.
Message: Posted by: Adammcd (May 19, 2010 08:10AM)
It was well done and I think that Carney was not at fault for the flash there probably should have been a cut, Though, my wife didn't see it. Letterman was much better last night and almost apologetic for his behavior with Jason. Freakin' Carney is brilliant.
Message: Posted by: tboehnlein (May 19, 2010 08:42AM)
Look everyone of these guys know what to expect from Letterman he is not changing his multimillion dollar style for a bunch of close up magicians, get real. Carney was great flashes or not he was composed & entertained his audience(Letterman & the home audience) if you think he flashed ask a layperson to watch & ask if they think his performance was entertaining, not look closely for what you see. You do not go on letterman not knowing he is going to heckle you he does it to all his guests, why do think Cher called him an A** h*** on air. I have never thought Jason's material on Letterman was all that great but he keeps getting called back, so must be doing something right, not to mention all the other shows he has performed on.
Message: Posted by: teevtee (May 19, 2010 08:47AM)
What in the world are people talking about when they discuss "horrible working conditions" and so on. These 5 guys are incredibly lucky, they are being given a HUGE chance to impress a national audience and cross over to a much more mainstream position. It is up to THEM not Letterman to adapt.

Letterman is Letterman, you may not like him and that is fine but he is the same to every guest he has, musicians, actors, magicians, whoever. While I agree that the cramped space and odd desk are far from ideal it is simply not Letterman's job to make things ideal... it is the responsibility of the magicians to figure out a solid performance in any given situation... something we really have yet to see thus far this week.

How many of you perform under ideal situation every time? Come on, these guys should be not only jumping for joy to have this chance but they should be bringing their absolute A game. Yes, Letterman will pester them a bit, yes the desk is small and oddly shaped... SO WHAT.

I say again, do you think someone liek RIcky Jay would have a problem with it? I don't think so.
Message: Posted by: Xpilot (May 19, 2010 09:25AM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-19 09:47, teevtee wrote:
I say again, do you think someone liek RIcky Jay would have a problem with it? I don't think so.[/quote]
Interesting that you say that. He has been on Letterman more than once- I don't know how many times, but I have video from 2 appearances and in one he totally blows a 4 ace production sequence. He stays calm and is entertaining while he recovers very well, Still, it's the only time I've ever seen him totally screw up a trick on TV. So maybe someone like Ricky Jay would have a problem with it.
Message: Posted by: Doc Eason (May 19, 2010 09:27AM)
Boy the thing that this is pointing up is how difficult it can be to get great video. So many elements need to line up right- you, the audience, the lighting, the cameraman, the editor.

Tuesday, the camera man 'screwed the pooch'.

John was great under pressure. He was glib and bantered well with DL who was on his best behavior.. infact even asking JC if he wanted 'help'.-more or less asking John if it was ok if he was an "active participant". John did very well with the banter. I feel DL *knows* that people think he has it in for magicians and

He did well and would have fooled you teevee had you not *seen* the orange. I know his routine and John has STILL fooled me with the timing of the load. It was unfortunate they used that angle at the critical time.

Nervous? yah ... hard to get around that.. Letterman is an intimidating presence and, I'll bet, could send the fear of god into any of us. Aside from that unfortunate camera angle that zeroed in on his hands, his shakes weren't that obvious.

That routine can be confusing. John did a good job of 'selling' it.

On now to Johnny Ace..
Message: Posted by: bobbyk (May 19, 2010 09:32AM)
I think Frank and Doc have made some great points and I hope the week gets better.

I felt badly for Carney with those unforgiving camera shots... you would think they would've been a bit more magician-Friendly with some of those shots. But the lesson here to me is.... Be prepared for that by doing something that you can't get busted on by a camera shot. Carney is a wonderful talent and I wish the audience could have enjoyed his work without overhead cameras exposing both the Orange and Coconut loads.

Regarding Jason....I felt it was going to be a rough night when he came out with the Death Grip on the Shrinking Card case.... For some reason he seemed overly nervous for someone who has been here before...and the way those props were discarded, you would've thought they were on fire. Of course He's on Letterman, I'm not. :)

Looking forward to the rest of the week...I think.

best,
bk
Message: Posted by: Doc Eason (May 19, 2010 09:36AM)
I didn't get a chance to finish that thought...

If a pro like JC with a full tilt TV studio technology can still not look like a million bucks.. it should point up how difficult it is to put together a great video..

Carney now has a pretty ***ed good video credit... but with that flash of the orange, it is not great! (Maybe JC can fix that expose of the orange... wasn't *his* fault..)
Message: Posted by: TKO MAGIC (May 19, 2010 09:46AM)
Doceason, I totally disagree
Ok , I been pushing to everyone at work to watch Letterman this week. I also wanted their true feedback. So far this was what they said. "The guy on Monday was funny , I thought him being nervous was his act."
As for John Carney when I asked " The trick he did was cool but I knew the ending (5 people said that) He looked nervous as well and wasn't funny at all, I seen him put the orange in the glass." When I asked them what do you mean he wasn't funny? They said he had no good responses when David Letterman was talking to him, he seemed like a magician just doing a bar trick, nothing exciting like Copperfield.
I thought this feed back was amazing.
Here we have John Carney writing best selling magic books and his thoughts of misdirection, bad views, hecklers and such... I kind of agree with teevtee on this one practice what you preach.

I don't understand the people on here that say Letterman is a heckler. Sorry folks this is the real world, you are not performing at the Magic Castle in front of magicians. You're performing for laypeople.
Walk in any establishment in NYC, Jersey, PA, Chicago people are going to try to figure you out and you better be entertaining too.
Why do you think Penn and Teller fit in so good on Letterman???????? They are prepared and they are entertaining.
Carney was not entertaining last night as much as I hate to say it. He fumbled some of his props and he even mentioned it, he flashed, he looked nervous but most of all he had no quick reply to Letterman questions and jokes. It seemed like Carney got flustered when Letterman interrupts his patter.
I'm not taking nothing away from Carney's talent. He is one of the best of all time. But there's more to it than just performing a trick.
Welcome to New York

I would love to see Malone, Ricky Jay, Gazzo magicians who can handle a real audience.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 19, 2010 09:50AM)
All that I know is magic is a very personal medium. Half the deal is that it happens right under your nose with close up magic. Take that away and you have an easier time trying to climb the Matterhorn without any arms. Translating the "magic" to the medium of TV and doing tricks are 2 different things.

Add to the mix a host with a huge presance, who may or may not like the medium! Heck I think any of them who does not accidently "tip the gaff" to the laity has done miracles.

It is a lot of preasure no way around it.
Message: Posted by: RiffRaff (May 19, 2010 09:58AM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-19 10:27, doceason wrote:
Tuesday, the camera man 'screwed the pooch'.
[/quote]

The show is not shown live, it's taped.
The editors and producers select the shots.
The Letterman Show deliberately selected a shot that would expose the trick.
You don't see them using an overhead shot when they have an actress on the couch do you?
...If they did I'd be a loyal viewer.
Message: Posted by: TKO MAGIC (May 19, 2010 09:58AM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-19 10:50, Dannydoyle wrote:
All that I know is magic is a very personal medium. Half the deal is that it happens right under your nose with close up magic. Take that away and you have an easier time trying to climb the Matterhorn without any arms. Translating the "magic" to the medium of TV and doing tricks are 2 different things.

Add to the mix a host with a huge presance, who may or may not like the medium! Heck I think any of them who does not accidently "tip the gaff" to the laity has done miracles.

It is a lot of preasure no way around it.
[/quote]

I agree, this is why I say Ricky Jay would be great. He's been on lots of talk shows performing great magic and without exposing it.
You have to ask yourself ? Do these magicians know there going on tv with cameras all around you??????
A good entertainer can adapt to all occasions.
Message: Posted by: TKO MAGIC (May 19, 2010 10:02AM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-19 10:58, RiffRaff wrote:
[quote]
On 2010-05-19 10:27, doceason wrote:
Tuesday, the camera man 'screwed the pooch'.
[/quote]

The show is not shown live, it's taped.
The editors and producers select the shots.
The Letterman Show deliberately selected a shot that would expose the trick.
You don't see them using an overhead shot when they have an actress on the couch do you?
...If they did I'd be a loyal viewer.
[/quote]

AAHHH, yes they do show shots from above sometimes.
A magician has to be very misguided thinking there wouldn't be a camera over yourself. YOU"RE ON TV
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 19, 2010 10:03AM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-19 10:58, TKO MAGIC wrote:
[quote]
On 2010-05-19 10:50, Dannydoyle wrote:
All that I know is magic is a very personal medium. Half the deal is that it happens right under your nose with close up magic. Take that away and you have an easier time trying to climb the Matterhorn without any arms. Translating the "magic" to the medium of TV and doing tricks are 2 different things.

Add to the mix a host with a huge presance, who may or may not like the medium! Heck I think any of them who does not accidently "tip the gaff" to the laity has done miracles.

It is a lot of preasure no way around it.
[/quote]

I agree, this is why I say Ricky Jay would be great. He's been on lots of talk shows performing great magic and without exposing it.
You have to ask yourself ? Do these magicians know there going on tv with cameras all around you??????
A good entertainer can adapt to all occasions.
[/quote]

Often directors have an opinion on things that may not benifit magic.
Message: Posted by: TKO MAGIC (May 19, 2010 10:07AM)
Danny, that's my point. Being a professional like these guys all week you think they would take that in consideration. I hope I'm not coming off like I can do better, because I can't. I would be nervous as all heck. But I would like to think I would have all my angles figured out. lol
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 19, 2010 10:21AM)
I know the theory and yea to a point you are right. BUT it is not quite that simple.
Message: Posted by: bobbyk (May 19, 2010 10:27AM)
If the show is featuring a close up Magician...I would think it's a given they will be shooting it very CLOSE UP...and it's up to the performer to make sure what he's going to do will work. We don't know for sure how many angles or cameras were used to tape that segment that would really show the effect, at least I don't....So I think it's a stretch to say it was purposely exposed... Sure, it would be nice to know they would always use magician - friendly shots but you simply cannot count on that. That doesn't mean anything was exposed deliberately....

It seems to me that if you do a routine that isn't angle proof... you either better know exactly how the camera angles are going to look or do something else....

Bk
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 19, 2010 10:29AM)
Your first mistake is to think it is all about the "MAGIC". A good portion of that audience tunes in to see Letterman.
Message: Posted by: TKO MAGIC (May 19, 2010 10:31AM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-19 11:29, Dannydoyle wrote:
Your first mistake is to think it is all about the "MAGIC". A good portion of that audience tunes in to see Letterman.
[/quote]

Exactly, you are an entertainer first. Any one can do a trick, I think Matthew Fox proved that.
Message: Posted by: bobbyk (May 19, 2010 10:38AM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-19 11:31, TKO MAGIC wrote:
[quote]
On 2010-05-19 11:29, Dannydoyle wrote:
Your first mistake is to think it is all about the "MAGIC". A good portion of that audience tunes in to see Letterman.
[/quote]

Exactly, you are an entertainer first. Any one can do a trick, I think Matthew Fox proved that.
[/quote]

Amen to that.... It's Dave's job to be funny, topical etc. it's not his job to make the performer look good...that's the performers job.

It would be nice if they all were like Carson was...He really liked to showcase a Magicians performance. But that was then and this is now...no one to blame accept ourselves. If You are given a shot...then it's up to you! :)
Message: Posted by: Doc Eason (May 19, 2010 10:41AM)
[quote]
, Dannydoyle
Your first mistake is to think it is all about the "MAGIC". A good portion of that audience tunes in to see Letterman.
[/quote]

Quite right Danny, neither of them engaged DL first to any degree. Walk out, shake hands, sit down and "do a trick magic boy'. sheesh.. that is tough...

The positive comments on Randall were mainly about his quips and the interaction - moving the coffee cup etc.

His magic sucked, but if he scored at all with the punters it was because of the NON magic parts of his appearance.

Seems there is a lesson there... hmm?
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (May 19, 2010 10:44AM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-19 11:27, bobbyk wrote:
That doesn't mean anything was exposed deliberately....
[/quote]
There's more than one camera rolling and the editor decided to choose the angle that was looking down from above where the load was coming from just as he did the load.

That's exposing the load deliberately.
Message: Posted by: bobbyk (May 19, 2010 10:56AM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-19 11:44, Frank Starsini wrote:
[quote]
On 2010-05-19 11:27, bobbyk wrote:
That doesn't mean anything was exposed deliberately....
[/quote]
There's more than one camera rolling and the editor decided to choose the angle that was looking down from above where the load was coming from just as he did the load.

That's exposing the load deliberately.
[/quote]

I wasn't present in the editing session... Certainly they picked the shot...but I don't know that they were purposely trying to expose anything... Do we really know what the other shots or angles would have shown? could they have even been worse? I don't know... but again, if you are leaving your performance up to an editor, cameraman etc... then you are making a big mistake.

I have a difficult time believing that they are sitting around saying..."I wonder if we can find a shot that will expose his trick".... If that's whats happening...why ever go on? Having sat in on various editing sessions (not Letterman)....I can tell you that they are turning around stuff very quickly at times and they are not generally trying to make performers look bad....
Message: Posted by: TKO MAGIC (May 19, 2010 10:58AM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-19 11:41, doceason wrote:
[quote]
, Dannydoyle
Your first mistake is to think it is all about the "MAGIC". A good portion of that audience tunes in to see Letterman.
[/quote]

Quite right Danny, neither of them engaged DL first to any degree. Walk out, shake hands, sit down and "do a trick magic boy'. sheesh.. that is tough...

The positive comments on Randall were mainly about his quips and the interaction - moving the coffee cup etc.

His magic sucked, but if he scored at all with the punters it was because of the NON magic parts of his appearance.

Seems there is a lesson there... hmm?
[/quote]

I agree Doc, a big lesson here.
I couldn't believe the guys at work liked Randall better than Carney.
Message: Posted by: paynow (May 19, 2010 11:17AM)
The fact that Randall did Wow!, an overused trick that screams gimmick, was bad enough. Why, however, would anyone take "Royal Scam" and add a gimmick to it? It's so good on it's own with no wallet. Let John Bannon go on there and do it. I just don't get it. Is this supposed to be adding to the trick and making it your own?

Dave is Dave; it's a comedy show. He's doing the same stuff Ernie Kovacs and to a lesser extent Steve Allen used to do with performers. I really don't think he was treating him unfairly. It's about their schtick and not the performer. You have to be able to adapt. I know I would be a basket case and of course I'll never get the opportunity to be. Maybe going on and doing screw up magic ala Ballantine is the way to go on those shows, but of course that defeats the purpose of promoting the art.

I can't wait to see Cohen and Ammar.
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (May 19, 2010 11:25AM)
I was booked to be on the TONIGHT SHOW with Johnny Carson. There was a schedule conflict (my schedule) and I was not able to do the show. In a way I was glad to miss it as I figured I would have been so nervous that I would have blown it. I was thrilled to be asked, but in a way glad I didn't have to do it.

I do think the conditions at Letterman's working on the corner of a desk with you chair on a dopey angle is really awful.

Some have said Ricky Jay or Gazzo would prevail. My guess is they would have INSISTED on a different working area.
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (May 19, 2010 11:27AM)
Oh, and my wife was watching with me and did NOT see the Orange load. A thought for any of you doing loads like that. DO NOT USE SOMETHING BRIGHT ORANGE OR YELLOW ... think flesh color... like a potato or an onion.
Message: Posted by: BarryFernelius (May 19, 2010 11:31AM)
As expected, Doc Eason has nailed it. In general, making magic look good on video is extremely difficult. And the non-magic portions of the show 'make it or break it.'

At Magic Con in San Diego, I saw John perform the same routine that he did on Letterman last night. On that occasion, the routine was razor sharp, and it fooled the 250-300 people who saw it. John received a spontaneous standing ovation. (At this particular gathering, two of the magicians received standing ovations during the weekend: John Carney and Juan Tamariz.)

Here are a few of the positive things that I saw in the performance:

1. John didn't do a card trick.
2. The magic was about something.
3. John's routine was his own stuff, not a trick created by someone else.
4. The routine is brilliantly constructed.
5. Letterman's interactions with John didn't wreck the trick.

Perhaps TKO and teevee could tell us a bit about their magical background and experience so that all of us can better understand where they're coming from. They could start by introducing themselves and letting us know their names. (It's so easy to be an armchair magician when you can hide behind your anonymity on the internet.)
Message: Posted by: bobbyk (May 19, 2010 11:32AM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-19 12:25, Pete Biro wrote:
I was booked to be on the TONIGHT SHOW with Johnny Carson. There was a schedule conflict (my schedule) and I was not able to do the show. In a way I was glad to miss it as I figured I would have been so nervous that I would have blown it. I was thrilled to be asked, but in a way glad I didn't have to do it.

I do think the conditions at Letterman's working on the corner of a desk with you chair on a dopey angle is really awful.

Some have said Ricky Jay or Gazzo would prevail. My guess is they would have INSISTED on a different working area.
[/quote]

I remember many times Carson would have the Performer at his own table and Carson would walk over, sit down and be entertained with the rest of the audience. Unfortunately, even with the increased interest in Magic over the last few years....these guys simply don't seem to care enough to allow the Close up performers their own space. Not sure why...it would seem to be better for all. Performing off the corner of that desk from that chair would seem to be tough duty at best.... Bad place to try and do Cup & ball routine etc.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 19, 2010 11:34AM)
Close-up magicians have trouble on TV because it shrinks perceptions, while with todays technology it focuses them and enlarges them.

What I mean is misdirection for close-up can involve a whole room. The whole, large movement covers the small movement thingie. Great. On TV you are on this little box so those large movements are not so large in the first place, and look stupid. Now all perceptions are in this little box, which with the technology of today is NOT SO LITTLE ANY MORE but magnified to greater than life sized. A small flash that goes unnoticed in life, is amplified and sent out in HD and bamo you are a hack.

This makes close-up magic tough on Tv, and even tougher to actually entertain with. I guess this is where the "engaging the host" lesson comes in handy.
Message: Posted by: paynow (May 19, 2010 11:34AM)
One thing that I haven't seen mentioned (or maybe I missed it). Carson started out as a magician so my assumption is that he would have had enormous respect and empathy for anyone that would have to go on national TV to perform it.
Message: Posted by: BarryFernelius (May 19, 2010 11:35AM)
Oh, and for what it's worth, the people in my workplace thought that John Carney was at least an order of magnitude better than Jason Randal. As always, your mileage may vary, etc.
Message: Posted by: spcarlson (May 19, 2010 11:38AM)
I’ve heard of Armchair Quarterbacking, is there such a thing as Armchair Magishing?
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 19, 2010 11:38AM)
I do not have an opinion on better or not, or even if they were good or not. I was simply speaking of the limitations of the medium.

Which incidently is not armchair anything.
Message: Posted by: bobbyk (May 19, 2010 11:39AM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-19 12:27, Pete Biro wrote:
Oh, and my wife was watching with me and did NOT see the Orange load. A thought for any of you doing loads like that. DO NOT USE SOMETHING BRIGHT ORANGE OR YELLOW ... think flesh color... like a potato or an onion.
[/quote]

GREAT POINT! I noticed that few have mentioned that the COCONUT was also flashed. I didn't see it until I re-ran the segment. I purposely went back looking for the coconut load because I never saw it... but it was flashed same as the orange... but yet the orange was shouting at us while the coconut slipped right by me.... again, GREAT POINT.
Message: Posted by: ChristopherM (May 19, 2010 11:53AM)
It's really positive that there is a showcase on TV for close-up magic on such a high profile chat show. I think the performances so far have been enjoyable and informative. They remind us that we need to have absolutely mastered prop handling, our script, and responses to possible audience questions. Also we need to select material that suits the environment we are in perfectly, and either adapt to the conditions we are given (and not complain after the event) or specify how we want it to be, if we're able to do so. That's a lot to think about for a TV performance! Looking forward to the rest of the week :)
Message: Posted by: RiffRaff (May 19, 2010 11:53AM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-19 11:02, TKO MAGIC wrote:
[quote]
On 2010-05-19 10:58, RiffRaff wrote:
[quote]
On 2010-05-19 10:27, doceason wrote:
Tuesday, the camera man 'screwed the pooch'.
[/quote]

The show is not shown live, it's taped.
The editors and producers select the shots.
The Letterman Show deliberately selected a shot that would expose the trick.
You don't see them using an overhead shot when they have an actress on the couch do you?
...If they did I'd be a loyal viewer.
[/quote]

AAHHH, yes they do show shots from above sometimes.
A magician has to be very misguided thinking there wouldn't be a camera over yourself. YOU"RE ON TV
[/quote]

I just watched Kate Bekinsale and Jessica Simpson interviews on Letterman. Neither one had the overhead shot. Darn!

Anyway, here's Carney:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rOBjmLHxgQ
Message: Posted by: Adammcd (May 19, 2010 11:53AM)
My wife loved the Jason Randell set. She said Carney was good as well but she thought Jason did a nice job. She liked the Matthew Fox trick as well. She did not notice the orange load, the sticky sound. She did say that she noticed him double checking the himber wallet right after turning it over.

Movies that are 1 1/2 can take months to edit. Letterman's filmed at 5ish and played at 11:35. If my wife didn't see the orange maybe they didn't either; there is a lot more to do. Also perhaps in editing a cut away shot looked way worse or suspicious. I would not say that was deliberate by the show or it's producers. We're talking a 1/2 second of an hour show that is not focused on magic. I maintain that 5 hours is not a long time to get every detail right in editing. 3 Cameras means 3 seperate 1 hour viewings for the best shot. Then you have to splice that together in 2 before air time. I don't buy it. It was an oversight, not on purpose.

Adam
Message: Posted by: Mb217 (May 19, 2010 11:55AM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-18 21:33, doceason wrote:
Mb217 I don't under stand your statement

"Seriously, Letterman proves that specs don't see half the stuff that magicians think they ought to see, even when effects aren't done with exact precision." [/quote]

[quote]
On 2010-05-19 01:12, Jonathan Brown wrote:
Carney was great...the bits with the wand- beautiful. Sure the orange flashed, but through it all, Letterman didn't see it. He was still just as amazed.
Jonathan Brown
[/quote]

Hi Doc,

I basically meant what Jonathan says here.

Many times magicians clamour about what and how to do something when specs have no idea of what you'r doing even sometimes when you do it poorly, as Jason might've done or with Carney flashing the orange. Flashing is not good but Letterman was none the wiser for it. Well anyway that's about what I meant. -Mb
Message: Posted by: TKO MAGIC (May 19, 2010 11:56AM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-19 12:31, BarryFernelius wrote:
As expected, Doc Eason has nailed it. In general, making magic look good on video is extremely difficult. And the non-magic portions of the show 'make it or break it.'

At Magic Con in San Diego, I saw John perform the same routine that he did on Letterman last night. On that occasion, the routine was razor sharp, and it fooled the 250-300 people who saw it. John received a spontaneous standing ovation. (At this particular gathering, two of the magicians received standing ovations during the weekend: John Carney and Juan Tamariz.)

Here are a few of the positive things that I saw in the performance:

1. John didn't do a card trick.
2. The magic was about something.
3. John's routine was his own stuff, not a trick created by someone else.
4. The routine is brilliantly constructed.
5. Letterman's interactions with John didn't wreck the trick.

Perhaps TKO and teevee could tell us a bit about their magical background and experience so that all of us can better understand where they're coming from. They could start by introducing themselves and letting us know their names. (It's so easy to be an armchair magician when you can hide behind your anonymity on the internet.)
[/quote]

Barry , I will gladly tell you my name. Todd Kent.
And Barry please read all my posts. I gave credit where credit is do. I stated JC is one of the greatest close up workers of all time. I also stated I would be worst than any of the guys on this week, because I would be very nervous.
Now for my background. I performed in 22 countries and 49 states. I also run one of the best one day conventions in the USA. Last year I booked John Carney along with David Williamson, Gazzo, Rocco, Geoff Williams on the same bill. They all did a close up show and a stage show.
For your information Gazzo was the biggest hit of the close up show then came David Williamson. The biggest hit of the stage show was Rocco and David Williamson. Over the years I booked and some of them I performed with was Jeff Hobson, Michael Finney, Daryl, David Regal, Rocco, Gregory Wilson, David Williamson, etc... the list goes on and on.
This year I booked my good friend Fielding West, Johnny Thompson and Kevin James. I'm also dedicating this year convention to Rocco.
I learned more from Gazzo and Williamson on being an entertainer first than any book , dvd could teach me.

Tell me Barry , how am I being an armchair quarterback? When all the facts I'm stating are true and the feedback of their performance were quotes from laypeople. Again let me state I love Carney's work it's the best of the best. I own all his books. I would have never hired him if I thought he was horrible. Like I said I'm not taking his skill from him.

Todd Kent

ps. Pete Biro, when are you coming to Kutztown my friend. Did Pepka get a hold of you.
Message: Posted by: BarryFernelius (May 19, 2010 12:07PM)
Todd,

I was not denigrating you in any way; I just wanted to have a better idea about where you're coming from. Thanks for the background information. When I lived in Fort Collins, Colorado, I was involved in the Magic in the Rockies convention. I hope that I can attend the Kutztown convention at some time in the future.

Don't misunderstand me; all of us who have commented on David Letterman's Close-up Magic week are, by definition, armchair magicians -- unless we've appeared on Letterman!
Message: Posted by: Moxahalla (May 19, 2010 12:13PM)
I think this is the first time that I've seen close-up magicians confined to using the host's desk as a table surface...tough conditions! but I'm sure the performers were notified well in in advance of the conditions.

(All TV talk shows in the past - always used a simply card table in the middle of the stage, with the show's guests acting as spectators)

Jason was entertaining...but his use of props & gimmicks justifiably resulted in the previous comments made here on his performance.

John's pure sleight-of-hand is the way to go with a host like Letterman...a nice job and a lesson in misdirection. I'm not sure how many laymen would have caught the "flashing", so I don't think it was a huge deal.

One minor point--would it have hurt to "touch-up" the wand with a little paint before using it on TV? (it appeared to have several paint chip missing---tacky)

All in all--both performers have given Magic a big PLUS!

(why isn't this thread posted under "Lights, Camera Action!"?)
Message: Posted by: TKO MAGIC (May 19, 2010 12:14PM)
It's hard for me to say what I mean on a post. I love John Carney's work. I attended multiple lectures by him , saw his stage show, close up show, I have all his books, dvd's. I also think he is one of the most knowledgeable magicians out there. All I was doing was quoting what laypeople said at work and I was confused of what he chose to do. It's harder than ever now to perform on tv with tivo, the internet, etc...
Message: Posted by: TKO MAGIC (May 19, 2010 12:18PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-19 13:13, Moxahalla wrote:
I think this is the first time that I've seen close-up magicians confined to using the host's desk as a table surface...tough conditions! but I'm sure the performers were notified well in in advance of the conditions.

(All TV talk shows in the past - always used a simply card table in the middle of the stage, with the show's guests acting as spectators)

Jason was entertaining...but his use of props & gimmicks justifiably resulted in the previous comments made here on his performance.

John's pure sleight-of-hand is the way to go with a host like Letterman...a nice job and a lesson in misdirection. I'm not sure how many laymen would have caught the "flashing", so I don't think it was a huge deal.

One minor point--would it have hurt to "touch-up" the wand with a little paint before using it on TV? (it appeared to have several paint chip missing---tacky)

All in all--both performers have given Magic a big PLUS!

(why isn't this thread posted under "Lights, Camera Action!"?)
[/quote]

Moxahalla, you made a great point about Carney's wand. A lot of magicians at the convention said the same thing.
Also almost everybody I talked to at work noticed the orange but not the coconut. They also like Randall's personality a lot better than JC.
Message: Posted by: BarryFernelius (May 19, 2010 12:27PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-19 13:14, TKO MAGIC wrote:
It's hard for me to say what I mean on a post. I love John Carney's work. I attended multiple lectures by him , saw his stage show, close up show, I have all his books, dvd's. I also think he is one of the most knowledgeable magicians out there. All I was doing was quoting what laypeople said at work and I was confused of what he chose to do. It's harder than ever now to perform on tv with tivo, the internet, etc...
[/quote]

You'll get no argument from me about the difficulty of performing on TV in the internet age!

At Magic Con, Michael Weber told a story about Derren Brown's lottery prediction trick in the UK. FIFTEEN MINUTES after the performance, there was a detailed YouTube video showing how Derren could have done the lottery prediction. Think about that; FIFTEEN MINUTES!

Michael's story shows that it's bloody difficult to protect methods in the internet age. So how do you be successful in spite of the technology? Michael's conclusion: He who has the best STORY, wins.
Message: Posted by: lebowski (May 19, 2010 12:41PM)
Letterman conditions are tough, and obviously everything in Carney's routine had to be redesigned to fit the awkward on the couch next to the desk format. Obviously, if you want to be on Letterman you do it his way or not at all. In any event doing the show seems to be a plus for the performers as well as magic in general. Someone mentioned about the show being edited. I think most shows like this that are shot live are edited in progress and little or nothing is done after the shoot except in very special circumstances like bleeping out swear words.
Message: Posted by: KevinWisch (May 19, 2010 12:48PM)
Saw Carney- As all others have stated, I agree that he was multiple times better than Randal. My own personal opinion though- why do a variation of cups and balls on a national TV spot? It's literally one of the most "angley" tricks in the world and the magic community has seen it hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of times and lay-people have also seen it many many times (althogh less than magicians, obviously).

For me, his appearance was simply "okay". Carney was visibly nervous- let me add some context here though. At Metro-Magic last year, I was talking with David Roth and he did say that all performers need to treat David with "kid gloves"- otherwise they simply won't air the spot. That probably explains some of the nervousness of the performers. But again, I hate to be a pain- but they sign up for it. It's Letterman- you have millions of people watching you on a nationally televised late-night show.

Originally, I wanted to post on this topic because it really irks me when someone has an opportunity to do a show like Letterman (such as the performers we have on this week) and the magician does bad and then we blame it on the situation or the host. I've looked at comments and while, I know we're all trying to be diplomatic and nice to others (which I'm all for BTW :) We always say "OMG- look at the tough circumstances! Letterman really went at him" or "Wow... he gave him a hard time and the camera angles were bad"... Well Duh! They SHOULD give them a hard time and they SHOULD know the cameras are going to be covering them at all conceivable angles. If no one tests the magicians that we in the magic community hold up to such a high standard, then all the awards in the world don't mean a thing. Period. It's as if we give magicians awards and accolades and when they are required to perform; we make excuses for them. I'm sorry- if I didn't perform in my job, I'd be fired. Period. As they say, if ya can't take the heat, get outta the kitchen. ;-)

My background? You have to love linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinwisch
Summary: 26 years old, hold a BA, MA and MBA. Marketing Manager for Intel Corporation. Experience on Wall Street and Silicon Valley. Have worked on award winning ad campaigns and work with the world's largest ad agencies. Am on the team of two of Intel's largest Facebook presences. Did you watch the SuperBowl this year? I worked directly on Intel's two SuperBowl spots and also was involved in the CBS Post-Game show sponsorship. I'm just lucky I have a few extra seconds in between conference calls to post on this board (which, I obviously don't do often). And yes- Conan and Intel had a sponsorship together until Conan went off the air.

And finally- the BIGGEST reason I have a right to be here on this board: my father is the best *** sleight-of-hand magician I've ever seen. I've begun to work with him on managing his career and am working closely on a new Slydini lecture to commemorate his original tour back in the seventies.

That should satisfy any thoughts of "who the heck is this guy?" :) (If anyone was wondering). lol
- Kevin
Message: Posted by: Andrew Zuber (May 19, 2010 01:26PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-19 11:44, Frank Starsini wrote:
[quote]
On 2010-05-19 11:27, bobbyk wrote:
That doesn't mean anything was exposed deliberately....
[/quote]
There's more than one camera rolling and the editor decided to choose the angle that was looking down from above where the load was coming from just as he did the load.

That's exposing the load deliberately.
[/quote]
Exactly right. Anyone with eyeballs could see that bright orange object being flashed. This should have been rehearsed and the director should have told in rehearsal what does and does not work. I can't speak to Letterman's practices or his staff, but having worked on The Tonight Show for a few years, I sat in on literally hundreds of rehearsals, and I can tell you that this kind of thing, at least in Jay's setting, is completely avoidable.
Message: Posted by: kcg5 (May 19, 2010 02:07PM)
The first guy was visibly nervious,but he had a tough spot starting out and all. Carney, as I know him, is a great magician, and I felt he dealt with Dave better. I watched it with my room mate, and he missed the orange-even after I rewound it 2 times for him. That camera angle killed it, but they are cut down on their work area, ect. I hear Ammar has already taped his segment?
Message: Posted by: bobbyk (May 19, 2010 02:25PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-19 14:26, Andrewzuber wrote:
[quote]
On 2010-05-19 11:44, Frank Starsini wrote:
[quote]
On 2010-05-19 11:27, bobbyk wrote:
That doesn't mean anything was exposed deliberately....
[/quote]
There's more than one camera rolling and the editor decided to choose the angle that was looking down from above where the load was coming from just as he did the load.

That's exposing the load deliberately.
[/quote]
Exactly right. Anyone with eyeballs could see that bright orange object being flashed. This should have been rehearsed and the director should have told in rehearsal what does and does not work. I can't speak to Letterman's practices or his staff, but having worked on The Tonight Show for a few years, I sat in on literally hundreds of rehearsals, and I can tell you that this kind of thing, at least in Jay's setting, is completely avoidable.[/quote]

I don't think there's any question that it could have been avoided... but are you saying that you think they "purposely" looked to expose his method? Or is this more likely a case of somebody somewhere not paying attention? I would suspect the latter but am in no real position to know. The Letterman show is rehearsed isn't it?
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (May 19, 2010 02:48PM)
A comment about the wand. I will ask John, but my GUESS... This may have been Bob Read's wand and John would not think of re-painting it. It looks like the wand Bob used in his Penultimate Cups and Balls routine.
Message: Posted by: MagicMan1957 (May 19, 2010 03:29PM)
I wonder if these guys even politely ask Letterman or the producer if they can set up a table on stage and not sit awkwardly on an angle at the desk?

Of course Dave did go on about this being close up magic so I guess the assumption is it can be performed right at the desk.

Also I realize performing on television has it's hazards. But the performers know that unblinking overhead camera that cannot be misdirected is there, so why do any move that camera WILL catch?

In the end Magic on TV is always a good thing.
Message: Posted by: ScottLeavitt (May 19, 2010 03:51PM)
Personally, I thought Dave treated John very very well last night (someone obviously said something to him after prior nights show), and despite the orange flash (hard to do with a camera directly overhead...) thought that the routine went extremely well. Also glad that Dave gave him a good block of time to do the routine in an unrushed manner...

Perhaps the only way to "fix the angles" is to request that the cameraman only shoot from Dave/audience's perspective...

Hope Steve C wasn't planning on doing his brick production after last night's appearing coconut
Message: Posted by: teevtee (May 19, 2010 04:05PM)
>>>>There's more than one camera rolling and the editor decided to choose the angle that was looking down from above where the load was coming from just as he did the load.

That's exposing the load deliberately.<<<<

The show is "live to tape" what that means is that it is NOT edited afterwards like a movie is, there is no editing session. The director calls for the shots as the show is happening live, barring some incredible malfunction the show goes out as it was viewed live.

The overhead shots are obviously needed to see the desk and see cards etc. it is there to HELP magicians, not expose them. It is unfortunate that the director called for an overhead shot just as the load was happening but also very unlikely intentional, what reason on Earth do we have to believe something like that was done intentionally? And they DO use overhead shots when appropriate with other guests such as chefs during a cooking segment. My point is that there is just no reason to think there is some sort of conspiracy. What we have seen is one very poor / nervous performance and then a second smoother one, but one that chose the incorrect routine. Not only do I agree with others when they say that a fancy take on cups and balls is not really the earth shaking kind of thing a modern audience wants to see on TV but beyond that it is too angly to properly perform on TV. There are so many other routines JC could have chosen that would have been angle safe so as to make the whoel point moot.
Message: Posted by: teevtee (May 19, 2010 04:11PM)
Barry:

My name is Ted and I am NOT a professional magician. I have however been involved in magic for well over 30 years at a serious level and of course beyond that in my childhood. Suffice it to say that I have great respect and admiration for those who can really perform under any circumstances, even easy ones so much what these guys are working with.

Still, with that said so far they both have really messed up in my opinion. Jason just flat looked out of his depth as he has on EVERY Letterman appearance I have seen him on. John on the other hand was obviously more professional but in my opinion chose a very poor routine to perform for three reasons:

1) Somewhat confusing and hard to follow to start with

2) Frankly is does not feel new or fresh. Rather to a lay audience it seems like the exact type of magic they have seen forever and therefore it is less likely to engage them

3) It has angle issues. With so many other options why choose something that has that kind of limitation. It is also a poor fit for the odd sitting at corner of desk situation he was dealing with.

Not to beat a dead horse but a guy like Ricky Jay could sit in that same spot with nothing more than a deck of cards and entertain, engage and amaze. I think THAT is what the show is looking for.
Message: Posted by: lebowski (May 19, 2010 04:47PM)
Teevtee, two of the most astute posts on the topic so far, but who is the Barry you addressed your second response to?
Message: Posted by: Fred E. Bert (May 19, 2010 04:53PM)
I predict that Steve Cohen will shine - not only with his elegant magic but in his handling of Letterman as well.
Message: Posted by: paynow (May 19, 2010 05:00PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-19 17:53, Fred Berthelot wrote:
I predict that Steve Cohen will shine - not only with his elegant magic but in his handling of Letterman as well.
[/quote]

Absolutely!
Message: Posted by: lebowski (May 19, 2010 05:03PM)
If he shines he will have an extra feather in his cap since he's the only New Yorker on the show.
Message: Posted by: paynow (May 19, 2010 05:17PM)
The best magician I can think of to be on Letterman would be Bill Malone. They probably took one look at his act and figured he'd upstage Dave. He would shine in that situation.
Message: Posted by: TKO MAGIC (May 19, 2010 05:31PM)
Need I say more?

Ricky Jay on tv with a host

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgqXdnwIoQM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jKuHiY397U

and just for giggles
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4TDeC3DyyM&feature=related
Message: Posted by: kcg5 (May 19, 2010 05:34PM)
How was Roth treated? Anyone have a link to that?
Message: Posted by: paynow (May 19, 2010 05:36PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-19 18:34, kcg5 wrote:
How was Roth treated? Anyone have a link to that?
[/quote]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpBgDffoCqA
Message: Posted by: TKO MAGIC (May 19, 2010 05:36PM)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpBgDffoCqA
Message: Posted by: Obviously (May 19, 2010 05:57PM)
I enjoyed the Roth clip. It was especially magical how he changed a 1964 silver coin (which was pointed out to DL in the presentation) into a huge 1988 coin. The camera angle showed this exceptionally well.
Message: Posted by: gaffed (May 19, 2010 06:56PM)
That's the first time I've seen that clip with David Roth. Although DL treated him decently those lame idiotic comments that he made with asking for Bridge Mix, etc. which was, obviously, nothing more than a pathetic attempt in trying to be the center of attention. Something Johnny Carson would have never done as he had too much respect for magicians, and of course, loved magic.
Message: Posted by: RiffRaff (May 19, 2010 06:59PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-19 16:51, ScottLeavitt wrote:
Also glad that Dave gave him a good block of time to do the routine in an unrushed manner...
[/quote]

I'm not sure about the unrushed part. At the 4:15 mark in the video you could hear Paul playing the piano. It feels like the Oscars when they want to get someone off.
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (May 19, 2010 07:16PM)
I have a question about the setting. The Letterman Show has had Roth on the show and many other magicians. Why do you think they thought it appropriate enough to give the performer the corner of a desk to use as their performing surface. And not just any corner of a desk; a funky looking corner with a sunken unusable portion and Dave's coffee cup smack dab in the middle of the part you can use.

They've seen close-up before.
They know what makes it nice for the performer.
They know what an appropriate close-up setting looks like.
They have the money to spend on an appropriate setting.

It's as if the magicians are coming out by surprise and they just clear a spot. They certainly took the time to make sure the cameras were in the right place. Dave made sure he, himself, was comfortable.

I don't think anyone would disagree that it is an awkward location. We all work from awkward locations from time to time but that is impropmtu. This is not imporomptu. It is THE planned and chosen place for the perfomance. I find it curious that they left it that way.

I don't have an answer. Does anyone?
Message: Posted by: lebowski (May 19, 2010 07:24PM)
The director felt Letterman would look best in the "two shot" reacting and assisting with the magic.
Message: Posted by: Stanyon (May 19, 2010 07:32PM)
Hey Dottie! Can we get some brain cells here?
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (May 19, 2010 07:48PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-19 20:24, lebowski wrote:
The director felt Letterman would look best in the "two shot" reacting and assisting with the magic.
[/quote]

They could do that anywhere on the set as was done in previous shows.

That also doesn't excuse the performance surface. They could have hired a carpenter to build a close-up surface that would fit the edge of the table just fine with one phone call to a magician to find out what would be nice.

I'm afraid I'm still curious about this choice.
Message: Posted by: TKO MAGIC (May 19, 2010 08:09PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-19 20:48, Frank Starsini wrote:
[quote]
On 2010-05-19 20:24, lebowski wrote:
The director felt Letterman would look best in the "two shot" reacting and assisting with the magic.
[/quote]

They could do that anywhere on the set as was done in previous shows.

That also doesn't excuse the performance surface. They could have hired a carpenter to build a close-up surface that would fit the edge of the table just fine with one phone call to a magician to find out what would be nice.

I'm afraid I'm still curious about this choice.
[/quote]

Not to be a smart *** but this is the David Letterman show not the John Carney show or Michael Ammar, or who have ya.
These guys are professional. They knew the layout of the show before they went on. They should have enough arsenal to handle any situation.
This is why they say Bill Malone , Gazzo would be great to have on. They been in these situations before. They perform for real people not people at the Magic Castle or magic conventions. Malone and Gazzo are witty and quick. Why? Because they perform all the time. Gazzo the streets and Malone in the bars and clubs. It's called experience!
We as magicians need to stop making excuses and start acting like professionals.

Frank as far as DL having other performers on that used a separate table do you remember Penn and Teller first appearance? It was on the edge of his desk and Penn and Teller took control and performed an off the wall trick .
Message: Posted by: TKO MAGIC (May 19, 2010 08:10PM)
Here ya go

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lImYjaQJiw
Message: Posted by: tophatter (May 19, 2010 08:11PM)
I agree with Frank here It seems they wanted the magicians to have a hard time performing . A table should be on the stage with letterman watching from his desk ! Also they should have edited out the flash of the orange when carney did the load .
Message: Posted by: TKO MAGIC (May 19, 2010 08:53PM)
Yes it would've been nice to edit out the orange along with the coconut but you can't blame the guys editing. If anything they edited out when Carney dropped his hat. Remember he said I need to practice. The editing guys aren't trained in the magic field like worlds greatest magic show, these guys only have about 5 hrs of editing
Message: Posted by: TKO MAGIC (May 19, 2010 08:58PM)
Tophatter , do you really think letterman purposely intended to make it hard for them?
Message: Posted by: Doc Eason (May 19, 2010 09:10PM)
TKO has it.. admittedly the performance area is far from ideal but this is Letterman's show..Sure it would be nice to have a different more conducive setting, but this is Letterman's room and his rules. His audience tunes in to see him banter with his guests.

I don't sense malice on the show staff i.e. willfully exposing the orange load. I think the line editor made the call (though wrong) and switched it at an inopportune time. bummer. Time to move on. JC can have a quick edit and still come out with a million dollar piece of video.

Think about it.. If you were a real magician... you wouldn't need a plastic sleeve, a special table, lights just right, a person on your right and a person on your left.. real world stuff... You should just be able to do it right then and there. wouldnt you ? I think that is more the attitude of the Letterman staff.

If you climb into that ring, choose your material wisely, know the rules and get ready... for anything.
Message: Posted by: Illucifer (May 19, 2010 09:25PM)
Right on, Doc.
Message: Posted by: gaffed (May 19, 2010 11:03PM)
Come on here. Let's face the fact that ALL of these magicians no [b]FULL[/b] well what the setup looks like, i.e. the table, chair, etc. With that, you perform according to that setting and then use the appropriate effects to use out of your personal arsenal to fit in and exemplify your talent. It's not as if they are walking out on stage and are then completely [i]surprised[/i] as to where they will be performing! If you're a qualified close up magician, its YOU who fit into the setting and, or surroundings....not the other way around.

If one feels that the given setting is not conducive to their personal repertoire of magic, then don't accept the job.
Message: Posted by: Micheal Leath (May 19, 2010 11:12PM)
Johnny Ace Palmer did a great job. He got Letterman involved in the magic and it worked. He made Letterman feel like he was helping and that seemed to be all it took.
Message: Posted by: Magicjg (May 19, 2010 11:15PM)
Bravo johnny. Bravo
Message: Posted by: Ireland (May 19, 2010 11:22PM)
So far, Johnny was the most entertaining.
Message: Posted by: jazzy snazzy (May 19, 2010 11:25PM)
Well, they just did it to Johnny Ace Palmer too.
He's performing the cups and balls with the stupid fake microphone front and center in the shot - ridiculous! Obviously there was no tech rehearsal since the director and switcher had no clue what was going on. The cameras were all over the place trying to frame a shot.
Johnny did great and held it together even when a ball fell on the floor. A fine job all the way.
Letterman was gracious and seemed to genuinely enjoy it.
The production crew just doesn't know how to capture close-up magic on television.
Message: Posted by: David Todd (May 19, 2010 11:55PM)
I enjoyed John Carney's appearance.

Carney got a bad break with the orange flash (which obviously didn't flash to Dave , because he never saw it coming. Dave doesn't do "fake sincerity" , so you know that if he had seen that orange coming he would have made comments about it and would not have pretended to be amazed. It was just an unfortunate fluke that the director happened to cut to the overhead camera view at the wrong moment. But in fact Carney performed it flawlessly. If any of us had been sitting where Dave was sitting or in a normal close-up performance at a table we wouldn't have seen it. The unblinking eye of the camera from above revealed something from a view that most would never have had .

I was glad to see that the official edited version posted on the CBS website took out the orange flash. :thumbsup:

http://www.cbs.com/late_night/late_show/video/?pid=c_u_7oYP3guT93FL68CVXdaWdCNwtrIm&nrd=1


Johnny Ace Palmer was fantastic ! He killed with the cups and the chick finale.

In his case the haphazard camera work hindered his performance a bit, not by revealing too much as in Carney's case , but by obscuring too much when the mic on Dave's desk was blocking the view of what was happening.

But despite the poor camera work at that one moment Palmer came off with a really solid performance .


Looking forward to Steve Cohen and Michael Ammar.
Message: Posted by: teevtee (May 20, 2010 12:13AM)
I do think each performance is getting better, J.A.P. did well considering but I am still afraid it was not a home run. Following last nights performance is yet more cups and balls really a good call? Yes it is a classic of close up, yes the chicks is a nice kicker... but it feels like we have been there and done that.

I also understand that he is a classic magician but the tux and all seems out of time and certainly out of place in such a casual setting.

I et the feeling that no one really had much time to consider all these issues, not the performers or the crew. It all seems very haphazard and by the seat of their pants.

I thought his initial coin and ring tricks were great... simple, straight forward, no props. Once the cups and balls came out and there is really no room for them and all that it lost steam.

They all know the setting, they all know they do not have a ton of time... why not tailor a performance for that?
Message: Posted by: Powermagic (May 20, 2010 12:35AM)
I do not care if it is Dave's show or not. He should respect his guests and not be Mr. Funny. Looking back to the David Roth clip, it seems David DOES like to make it hard on his magic guests. His show or not, the job of a host is to make EVERYONE SHINE not steal the spot light.
As for editing. I do not see why they could not have fixed the problem so it probably is a little malice there.The live audience did not see it so the edit should have been made to match it. But then, maybe he was sloppy with that load.

As far has for being a REAL magician, well they are magicians and that does not negate the awkward setting for this series. It just does not look nice or comfortable. It looks sloppy with all of Daves crap on the the desk, the recess in the desk and the awkward body position of the guests. It is more restaurant than classy as they used to do. I do not think his natural approach makes the magic any more REAL or better.

But I do agree that anyone doing his show should prepare and choose wisely.

While I thought they all, so far have made it through, I was disappointed some have not changed their act in 25 years.

[quote]
On 2010-05-19 22:10, doceason wrote:
TKO has it.. admittedly the performance area is far from ideal but this is Letterman's show..Sure it would be nice to have a different more conducive setting, but this is Letterman's room and his rules. His audience tunes in to see him banter with his guests.

I don't sense malice on the show staff i.e. willfully exposing the orange load. I think the line editor made the call (though wrong) and switched it at an inopportune time. bummer. Time to move on. JC can have a quick edit and still come out with a million dollar piece of video.

Think about it.. If you were a real magician... you wouldn't need a plastic sleeve, a special table, lights just right, a person on your right and a person on your left.. real world stuff... You should just be able to do it right then and there. wouldnt you ? I think that is more the attitude of the Letterman staff.

If you climb into that ring, choose your material wisely, know the rules and get ready... for anything.
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: Powermagic (May 20, 2010 12:43AM)
Nope it is still there. Flashy flash flash [
quote]
On 2010-05-20 00:55, David Todd wrote:
I enjoyed John Carney's appearance.



I was glad to see that the official edited version posted on the CBS website took out the orange flash. :thumbsup:

http://www.cbs.com/late_night/late_show/video/?pid=c_u_7oYP3guT93FL68CVXdaWdCNwtrIm&nrd=1


[/quote]
Message: Posted by: Powermagic (May 20, 2010 12:53AM)
Well I think the others moved the mug and mic. Ace should have taken control but from his side angle it probably looked fine. That is what I am saying about not looking classy but rather like they were doing tricks in someones home.
By trying to make it seem natural,it did not enhance the magic. Well maybe I wll back track on that statement. If you had to have a black table and close up mat, maybe they would think it was tricky.
I do give them all credit for performing in a combat situation and doing well.

[quote]
On 2010-05-20 00:25, jazzy snazzy wrote:
Well, they just did it to Johnny Ace Palmer too.
He's performing the cups and balls with the stupid fake microphone front and center in the shot - ridiculous! Obviously there was no tech rehearsal since the director and switcher had no clue what was going on. The cameras were all over the place trying to frame a shot.
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: Daniel White (May 20, 2010 12:55AM)
Here is a quick post show interview we took of Michael Ammar on monday.

http://media.theory11.com/3357

A more in depth video about the whole behind the scenes experience will follow and will hopefully answer some questions about the discussion at hand.
Message: Posted by: sanman (May 20, 2010 12:59AM)
I was disgusted watching close-up week. I don't see musicians or singers treated in this way. As stated earlier, it is almost expected that the performer will be interrupted or tripped up. Why is this acceptable?
Message: Posted by: Magicmike1949 (May 20, 2010 01:12AM)
Good grief this week has been painful. In Johnny Ace Palmer's routine an extra ditched yellow ball is screaming at the camera beside his leg. As for those who think Dave is fooled from his angle in Carney's segment you are being incredibly naive. The coconut was in the briefcase right at his feet, and he was looking down on it the whole time. These guys don't just come on and do this stuff without rehearsal and blocking of the camera angles. So far the camera shots have been disastrous, though I don't think it was meant to intentionally expose the magic. It's just incompetence by Dave's people. Dave obviously has some hostility towards magic. He made a typical smart aleck remark at the beginning of tonight's show during his monologue when he said something like,"Only one person in tonight's audience even cares about close-up magic." What an endorsement of a week's theme of shows. Still I don't blame him for the difficulties. Could I do better than the magi so far? Heck no. Do I still have the right to cringe and comment when I see my idols looking unprofessional? You betcha. Doc and others have correctly pointed out that there are some valuable lessons for all of us from watching this. Television magic is different than "real world". As Michael Close has said, "Venue will dictate repetoire." That means lighting, noise, working surface, audience, and a slew of other factors. Here's hoping Steve and Michael pull our collective chestnuts out of the fire.
Message: Posted by: rkosby (May 20, 2010 02:00AM)
I don't think Dave is mistreating the performers. I think it's the nature of performing close=up means you are going to get interrupted. If a singer or musician were performing the same distance from Dave that a close-up magician does, there would probably be some form of distraction from Dave. For that matter, there would be a distraction from most people under those conditions. It's part of what makes close-up magic unique.

Ray
Message: Posted by: rkosby (May 20, 2010 02:32AM)
I agree with what Doc wrote on the previous page. I don't think the director caught the orange flash out of malice. It looked to me like they learned from it and tried to adapt for Johnny Ace Palmer's cups and balls routine. But that backfired because the good angle to hide the method blocked the action. I bet that's why they went to the overhead shot during Carney's set. It was the best way to show the action.

I'm not sure the fact the editor left the flash in Carney's clip on the CBS web site is a sign of malice either. I wonder if it was just challenging to edit it out and not make it look like something was edited out.

Does the studio audience watch the performance on big screen monitors? It seems to me they would have seen the flash if that's the setup.

I always assumed the hosts of these shows were always put at a bad angle and always played along. I thought it is part of the challenge of capturing both the performer and the audience simultaneously on video. If that's the case, I think Dave did a reasonable job of helping John out.

Ray
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (May 20, 2010 03:08AM)
I thought Johnny Ace Palmer was near flawless. I didn't see the ditched ball but he handled everything very well. From watching JAPs routine you could tell DL was excited about being invited to touch the props.

And JAP did exactly what I suggested anyone should do (several pages back)...
something you've done 1 billion times and know every possible response, heckle, comment, move, joke, wise-crack, one-liner, and breath a spectator might make.

JAP is THE best in the world at that set and he's done it more than anyone else ever could or will. He also didn't care that people might have seen him do bits of it somewhere else. He just did what he's best at. Period.

Great eye contact with the audience. Calm. Didn't rush sitting down. I was very impressed with his ability on TV.
Message: Posted by: tophatter (May 20, 2010 03:25AM)
I wonder does he always drop the ball on purpose & use that line It's a Floor show & It's picking up . I have seen him do this a few times on other shows . I have to say his performance was very entertaing from start to finish !
Message: Posted by: tophatter (May 20, 2010 03:27AM)
TKO to answere your question YES I think Letterman does this crap on purpose he is a Jerk when It comes to magic performances on HIS show .
Message: Posted by: Jumbopenny (May 20, 2010 03:45AM)
I thought Johnny Ace Palmer did very well. However, feel there were 2 weak points. For one, the coin vanish was weak. I don't think anyone was fooled by that. 2nd, why in the world would any magician work so hard to secretly load live chicks then spoil their own surprise by forewarning the audience. It's like someone having a surprise party for you, but telling you before you open the door. The end was a dud for me. Technically sound, but emotionally what a waste.

I asked my friend (layman) what she thought of his performance. She raved about the coin falling up. She was laughing and surprised. I asked did she have any idea how he did it. Her response was with thread. I asked how she liked the production of the chicks, and she said it was ok, but it didn't surprise her. Always ask and listen to layman, in this case laywoman.

Can't wait to see Steve Cohen's segment.
Message: Posted by: Futureal (May 20, 2010 04:00AM)
Doc -

Say you get a call tonight, one of the magicians is sick and can't make it. They want you to fly to New York in an hour and do the show that night. You have a 6 minute spot. Knowing what the conditions of the gig are, what material do you do?
Message: Posted by: Illucifer (May 20, 2010 05:18AM)
John Carney was fantastic and absolutely head and and shoulders above the other two performances, in my opinion. He had a great rapport with Letterman and was very entertaining and funny. Randal was atrocious. He seems like a very likeable fellow, but his magic is abominable. He rather strikes me as the Jack Hannah of magic.

What most of you may not know, is that John had to completely re-work his routine for the show, flip-flopping the actions of the left and right hand from the way he normally performs it. According to John, he asked if he could use a table. The answer was no. He asked if he could have his bag beside him or on the floor. Also no. He asked if he could lay down a mat to cover the 6-inch recessed area on Dave's desk. No. Ten minutes was all that was given for rehearsal. Nevertheless, Mr. Carney was every bit engaging, funny, and amazing.
Message: Posted by: jazzy snazzy (May 20, 2010 05:40AM)
Probably no one left working in television who has variety show experience.
They never shoot anything more challenging than an interview anymore.

Leno might have handled it differently. Did anyone see the magicians on Craig Ferguson?
Dave and Conan both like to interrupt the guests with lame comments.
You see similar treatment during cooking segments too.

I miss Johnny Carson.
Message: Posted by: atucci (May 20, 2010 06:03AM)
Jazzy - many of us miss Johnny.
Message: Posted by: bobbyk (May 20, 2010 07:54AM)
Regarding Johnny "Ace", whose performance I very much enjoyed...

I am curious as to why he announced the Chicks before Dave turned the cups??? Any thoughts on that? I have seen him do this routine before and I don't recall him doing that but it was several years ago and I my recollection on that point may be wrong.
Message: Posted by: Stanyon (May 20, 2010 08:00AM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-20 08:54, bobbyk wrote:
Regarding Johnny "Ace", whose performance I very much enjoyed...

I am curious as to why he announced the Chicks before Dave turned the cups??? Any thoughts on that? I have seen him do this routine before and I don't recall him doing that but it was several years ago and I my recollection on that point may be wrong.
[/quote]

Probably telegraphed because you could hear the little dickens' through most of his set. Also, JAP probably didn't want DL knocking them on the floor.
Message: Posted by: Doc Eason (May 20, 2010 08:56AM)
If it were me on the dais, I would do material that I have been doing for my entire career. Bullet proof stuff. Like JAP did. Stuff that depends on interaction not heavy sleight of hand. Stuff that would allow DL to chime in like bar patrons have been doing for 30 years. I'd like to think that I would be able to banter with him as I would with any convivial ( drunken ) Tower tourist.

plus

I would fervently hope that the adrenaline that would be surging through my veins didn't squirt out my ears.
Message: Posted by: BarryFernelius (May 20, 2010 09:01AM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-20 01:13, teevtee wrote:
They all know the setting, they all know they do not have a ton of time... why not tailor a performance for that?
[/quote]

Because once you do that, you're in unfamiliar territory -- a place you don't want to be when you're on the Letterman show. The last thing I'd want to do on the Letterman show would be a routine that I hadn't done a million times before.

Some of the folks on the Café keep saying, "But Gazzo works under bad conditions; he would have no trouble on the Letterman show." That's true, up to a point. But the constraints of the Letterman show are such a difficult problem to solve.

First, there are the very odd performance angles. Second, there are the cameras, that provide even more inconvenient angles. Third, there's David himself. But there's one other constraint that's a real killer: the performer must be seated, and everything has to stay in frame.

Gazzo is one of the best performers ever, but the inability to move would drive Gazzo crazy.

Maybe the answer is to do close-up mentalism. :)
Message: Posted by: BarryFernelius (May 20, 2010 09:03AM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-20 09:56, doceason wrote:
If it were me on the dais, I would do material that I have been doing for my entire career. Bullet proof stuff. Like JAP did. Stuff that depends on interaction not heavy sleight of hand. Stuff that would allow DL to chime in like bar patrons have been doing for 30 years. I'd like to think that I would be able to banter with him as I would with any convivial ( drunken ) Tower tourist.

plus

I would fervently hope that the adrenaline that would be surging through my veins didn't squirt out my ears.
[/quote]

Man, isn't that the truth. Doc, the last bit literally caused me to spew coffee all over my computer monitor!
Message: Posted by: Powermagic (May 20, 2010 09:25AM)
My comment about 25 year old material is more to point out that they had 25 years to learn something new and some have not. I have not seen Ace in a long time so was hoping to see what he has perfected since then. These pros have to have worked on other material no? Or do they do as some and just do 3 good things and do it well?

I must say that after reading this topic and seeing many links of Randal, I guess he has no excuse. He does seem to be the one that changes his material. But he has been on Letterman 6 times, something I did not know and had to use the desk.
So he should have been MORE prepared than the rest and I do not see why he was all shaky. His other performances went over better.

I can also say, by watching the links in this topic. Dave IS harder on this week's magicians. Now many he was more so with Randal since he was more familiar with him. (Although he was very grabby and "trying" to be Mr. Funny with david Roth.) But if you watch the other Randal performances it Dave is playing along not overly braking the flow.

Yes it is good to see how these guys handle Dave's Mugging. And while this is REAL world in bar or house party, this show si NOT that. It is TV and just as Dave does not break into a comedians set he should not be taking it too far out of the way with his corniness. When Randal is on Ellen, she cracks some Jokes but does not ruin the flow.

BTW I never heard of Jason Randal nor new how many current talk shows he as been on.
Since he does not go on to promote anything, I am wondering how he gets booked on these shows as often as he does. While what he does is sound, it is not all that different than how the tricks were sold. Good agent I guess.

Ace's Chicks- I have seen him do this many times and at some point the chicks always talk. It always amazes me how many do not hear them but that is the power of magic. they do not suspect live fluffy animals so it is not in their mind.
If Paul kept playing it would have been better.
Message: Posted by: Destiny (May 20, 2010 09:49AM)
I just saw Johnny Ace Palmer on Letterman and thought he was brilliant. I think I almost qualify as a lay audience - I perform very little close-up and have never seen it performed live so my exposure to it comes through the odd youtube clip.

I thought he was personable, engaged with Letterman and the audience, and very entertaining. I enjoyed the coins and ring bits - the coin flying back up to his hand looked truly magical, and while those of you who knew there would be chicks under the cups may have had the moment spoilt, my first thought when he said they'd be there was 'Yeah - right!' so if anything - his telegraphing their presence enhanced the moment for me.

Bad camera angles happen all the time on live television and I didn't think Letterman treated Mr Palmer any different to how he treats movie stars and politicians - most of them are adept at handling his style as was Mr Palmer. Why would Letterman change his personna or stage set or desk for just one niche group of performers? His show isn't really to my taste but they have a formula that obviously works - if you want to be part of it you accept that it's about the show, not you. I think most of us who work multiple venues know that is the case for just about every show we ever do anyway.
Message: Posted by: manreb (May 20, 2010 10:35AM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-20 00:55, David Todd wrote:
I was glad to see that the official edited version posted on the CBS website took out the orange flash. :thumbsup:

http://www.cbs.com/late_night/late_show/video/?pid=c_u_7oYP3guT93FL68CVXdaWdCNwtrIm&nrd=1


David you might want to look at that clip again, they left it true to the original.
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: TKO MAGIC (May 20, 2010 10:44AM)
WOW,
Johnny Ace Palmer was great. I loved his personality, his interaction and his magic.
Just the way he walked out with confidence and complemented Dave and the band was smart, a true professional.
Watch all three clips and watch the difference on how J.A.P. walks out and greets Dave compared to Carney and Randal. Then watch the interaction between J.A.P. and Letterman. He was far more entertaining than Carney and Randall put together.

Thank You Johnny Ace Palmer
Message: Posted by: Corbett (May 20, 2010 11:53AM)
Thoroughly enjoyed JAP's portion of the show. My wife, who is a seasoned viewer and audience of magic, commented, "wow, I really like his personality style, and how his demeanor is so calm and relaxed." She nailed it. There was just a sort of comfort and calm confidence that really showed through. I'm really looking forward to seeing him Live at MagiFest next year. Too bad I have to wait 9 more months.
Message: Posted by: RiffRaff (May 20, 2010 12:01PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-20 11:44, TKO MAGIC wrote:
Just the way he walked out with confidence and complemented Dave and the band was smart, a true professional.
[/quote]

The band began playing during his set, just like they did to Carney. I think Palmer handled it perfectly.
Message: Posted by: Rich B. (May 20, 2010 12:19PM)
TKO...you know I love ya man...but I disagree.
Jason Randal has probably made too many appearances on Letterman..making him scramble for material...not making good choices in this a show. Also David Letterman is like "family" with Randal and treated him differently where he could challenge him more...much like when performing for your own family as opposed to strangers. He definitely was tougher on Randal than the Carney and Palmer.

I think John Carney's magic was better than Johnny Ace Palmer's. I also liked John Carney's banter with Letterman. I saw Carney's routine live(at your convention)and I was still fooled with it. I had to rewind to see the flash of the orange. I'm not sure anyone is going to admit that. Also, it was a routined set of magic that made some sense...not "look what I can do" type magic.

I do agree with you that Johnny Ace Palmer's entrance was very good. I am familiar with his magic as he has been doing the same stuff for a long time. I just thought that - look the coin is here...now its here...now its here...now its a ring was a little bit more of showing off than entertainment. I find his descriptive style of magic a bit annoying. Of course his sleight of hand is very good...I just don't care for the style in which he presents it.

I think it would be great for some of the performers to come on the Café and give some details of what was asked of them and a little more insight to what really goes into a TV performance. I know it must be very difficult, and not something I could ever do without my hands shaking uncontrollably.

TKO...after I read your opinion of Carney's performance, I was expecting to see a complete debacle...instead I was fooled when I finally watched it. Maybe I'm a dope...but I think you were a bit hard on John Carney.

Rich B.
Message: Posted by: Brad Burt (May 20, 2010 12:29PM)
After all my negative stuff earlier in this thread.....Letterman goes and handles John Carney wonderfully! Except for the that one "thing" that everyone saw John was, as usual, terrific!!! And, to be fair, so was Letterman. He was restrained and respectful and funny which came off with a lot of class.

Looking forward to seeing my DVRed copy of Wednesday nights show.....

Best,
Message: Posted by: TKO MAGIC (May 20, 2010 12:32PM)
Hey Rich , with love right back at ya.
Rich I think you misunderstood me. I love John Carney's routine he did on Letterman and at Kutztown. There is no doubt he's great. I was just wondering his thoughts on doing it with an overhead shot. I think Carney missed a lot of verbal comedy strikes when Letterman kept chiming in, then again Carney is not known to be quick witty like Williamson or Malone. When he performed this at kutztown yes he performed it nicely except a lot of people said they seen him ditch the glass but of course we did , were magicians.
I think we look at magic like magicians and not like laypeople.
There's a forum on on CBS for the David Letterman Show. After reading most of the comments from lay people they enjoyed Johnny Ace the most ,it seems like, they liked the comedy of Randall and almost every single person said they seen the orange with Carney, these are lay people saying this. Then a few of the comments said they went back to watch it again and watched how he ditched the glass and loaded the coconut.
Message: Posted by: gaffed (May 20, 2010 12:33PM)
J.A.P. [i]nailed[/i] in my opinion. He looked and conveyed being very calm and got DL involved in just about every phase of the trick. Seeing that he did everything so smoothly and got DL involved and kept him busy he didn't have much of an opportunity to take the spotlight off of him, and or interject much of anything in the way of breaking his momentum. Well done indeed!

Whew!! If it were me, I’d be nothing more than a pile of water soaked clothes lying on the seat!
Message: Posted by: Moxahalla (May 20, 2010 12:40PM)
Shoot me for saying this...

The audience for Letterman is under 40 & "hip"...

WE know the performers this week are world-class...but do David's young lay audience see the performers as nothing more than pudgy, middle-aged, balding men - doing coin & card tricks that their nerdy Uncles used to do to them at birthday parties?

Where were the young, fresh, cool close-up guys?---Mmm, are there any?

(Playing devil's advocate, only)
Message: Posted by: Rich B. (May 20, 2010 12:46PM)
TKO:
I think the interaction was better with Letterman by Carney, except the no response that seemed to catch him off guard when Letterman asked him if he was getting paid. I'm sure many of us can come up with some clever lines the day after the show.

But...I think I have to give in a bit to you as I'm a bit shocked at what laypeople are posting on the CBS forum. I have not read it yet but take your word for it. The regular people watching the show should be the real judge own who was the most entertaining. I guess I am a dope. I'm heading over to the CBS site now to see the comments.

Rich B.
Message: Posted by: Rich B. (May 20, 2010 12:50PM)
TKO...before I head over to the CBS forum. The post above really reminded me why I wasn't crazy about Johnny Ace Palmer's Routine.

Pulling a coin from behind Letterman's ear? How long have many fathers and grandfathers been doing that for? Centuries?

I think that could have been left off national TV.

Rich B.
Message: Posted by: TKO MAGIC (May 20, 2010 12:53PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-20 13:19, Rich B. wrote:

TKO...after I read your opinion of Carney's performance, I was expecting to see a complete debacle...instead I was fooled when I finally watched it. Maybe I'm a dope...but I think you were a bit hard on John Carney.

Rich B.
[/quote]

Let me apologize in anyway possible if anybody thinks I was hard on Carney. Carney has more talent and knowledge in his little finger than I will in a lifetime. I'm only stating my thoughts and laypeople's thoughts on here cause it's a magic forum. I am also learning a lot listening from you guys especially Pete Biro stating maybe Carney should of used something skin color?????
I was only stating that Carney wrote numerous books on angles, presentation, performances, etc...He also put out many dvd's and lectured on everything we are talking about.
I was dumbfounded to see him on tv dropping his hat, saying he needs practice, flashing the orange, flashing the coconut, how he came running out, how he didn't thank Dave for having him on, for having a prop that looked like it went thru a war, how he paused after jokes Letterman makes and has no response?
Yes this confused me, but here is Randall messed up how many times but laypeople enjoyed him better. You can even hear the audience enjoy Randall more.
Remeber we are entertainers first than we are magicians.
Message: Posted by: TKO MAGIC (May 20, 2010 12:58PM)
http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/index.php?showtopic=1566378&pid=12930716&st=7965&#entry12930716
Message: Posted by: teevtee (May 20, 2010 01:07PM)
Problems with the setting,
Problems with the host,
Problems with the routines,
Problems with the angles,

These are all NORMAL issues that any performer deals with every show. The fact that they are on Letterman is no different.

No one has yet to nail it in any truly impressive way... here is hoping the last two can.
Message: Posted by: paynow (May 20, 2010 01:07PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-20 13:40, Moxahalla wrote:
Shoot me for saying this...

The audience for Letterman is under 40 & "hip"...

WE know the performers this week are world-class...but do David's young lay audience see the performers as nothing more than pudgy, middle-aged, balding men - doing coin & card tricks that their nerdy Uncles used to do to them at birthday parties?

Where were the young, fresh, cool close-up guys?---Mmm, are there any?

(Playing devil's advocate, only)
[/quote]

I think Dave would have been much harder on some Goth teen with an Invisible Viper Deck than he would be on the the old balding guys.
Message: Posted by: teevtee (May 20, 2010 01:13PM)
Moxahalla:

While I actually agree with your general point that thus far these guys are coming off as VERY old school and somewhat tired style of magic (and in fact it has gotten progressively worse what with J.A.P. ill fitted tux and coins from the ear schtick) you are a bit off on your average viewer age guess.

In fact according to the ratings (which track ages as well as overall viewers for this is how ad rates are determined) Letterman's average viewer age is a whopping 57.1 years old. Conan while he was briefly on the tonight show had an average age of 47.5 and old fashioned Nightlien is actually younger than Letterman's audience at 56.3.

The only current show to average and under 40 audience is Jimmy Fallon and even then just BARELY under 40. And remember, Letterman himself is in his 60's.

None of this changes the fact that I agree the magic thus far feels oddly out of date but maybe Letterman specifically wanted a sort of retro vibe.

One thing none of us has talked about is that maybe Letterman's people have specifically asked for a classic type of demonstration and have nixed ideas for more "edgy" material.
Message: Posted by: Adammcd (May 20, 2010 02:05PM)
This was my first time seeing JAPalmer. I thought his magic was top notch. But I didn't like him as a person. I thought he talked down to the audience. Those routines were very nice. And doing a gag first was a great way to help handle David. That all being said, I appreciate what JAPalmer brings to the table and think this week is a great week for magic in general.

Adam

BTW; There is talk all the time in the Table Hoppers Forum about training the audience and what's ok and not ok and when to clap and so on. Perhaps David just needs that training which is harder to do in a situation where the other is in control. In 99% of magic situations the Magician is in control, thus making it easier to train said audience. In this one situation the magician is merely a guest. It would appear in this instance because the magician is not in 100% control that the training is slower process. I think David has been a way better participant as the week has gone on and I think he will get better with the next two.
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (May 20, 2010 02:44PM)
Man, some of you people are harsh.
Message: Posted by: cairo (May 20, 2010 02:56PM)
This week is only good for magic. My estimation of the impression non-magician viewers get. Jason nervous, pleasant, passable but not great magic. Carney reserved good magician. His fault or not when the home audience sees a flash they aren't analytical about whose fault it is, they just think they saw how he did it. Palmer, the least nervous and his nerdy looking tux and somewhat goofy manner made him a character. So far his magic was the best received. That's it.
Message: Posted by: TKO MAGIC (May 20, 2010 03:25PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-20 15:44, Frank Starsini wrote:
Man, some of you people are harsh.
[/quote]

I don't think anybody is harsh. We are all magicians here telling the truth and what we think. We could be dead wrong. But this is a magic forum. Not a David Letterman forum.
If these magicians were a no name there would be fireworks amongst us.
Message: Posted by: manreb (May 20, 2010 03:33PM)
Okay. You liked this, you didn't like that. You thought it was a disaster, you though it was great.

We all watched. We wish there was more of this on TV. So what do you want to do?

Might I suggest that we all go to the the letterman web site and say what a thrill it was to watch and that we would like more of it. Not as a magician buta as a TV viewer. Maybe if we get 10% of the 43,000 members of this site to do so we can have something to complain about every week.

Just a thought.
Message: Posted by: David Todd (May 20, 2010 03:36PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-20 11:35, manreb wrote:
[quote]

David you might want to look at that clip again, they left it true to the original.



On 2010-05-20 00:55, David Todd wrote:
I was glad to see that the official edited version posted on the CBS website took out the orange flash. :thumbsup:

http://www.cbs.com/late_night/late_show/video/?pid=c_u_7oYP3guT93FL68CVXdaWdCNwtrIm&nrd=1

[/quote]


Ooops ! You're absolutely right. My mistake . I must not have been paying attention when I re-watched it on the CBS site. The clip was so heavily edited that I think I must have skipped ahead (past the "orange flash" part) and made the assumption (wishful thinking on my part?) that they had edited out the flash. Well, that's what I get for posting at 1:00 am when I'm tired. Duh.

So now I'm sort of ****ed off at CBS. They obviously had time for someone to go back and edit the clip for the website because it is in fact quite heavily edited to take out some of the banter between Letterman and Carney. They could have edited out the flash , but they didn't. :thumbsdown:
Message: Posted by: The Burnaby Kid (May 20, 2010 03:37PM)
I've got google analytics working over on my blog, and one of the things it does is keep track of the search engine results that bring people to my blog. Palmer's chick final load has got a lot of people searching for the method right now. I'm going to take that as a point in his favour in terms of how well the effect was received.
Message: Posted by: kcg5 (May 20, 2010 04:55PM)
Is there a link to he CBS forums where they are talking about this?
Message: Posted by: Ireland (May 20, 2010 04:55PM)
Johnny has been doing the chick load for years and it's one of his signature pieces.
Message: Posted by: TKO MAGIC (May 20, 2010 04:59PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-20 13:58, TKO MAGIC wrote:
http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/index.php?showtopic=1566378&pid=12930716&st=7965&#entry12930716
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: edh (May 20, 2010 05:14PM)
Kcg5, a few posts above yours is the link.
Message: Posted by: Gazzo (May 20, 2010 06:17PM)
First off, I don't really understand what all the fuss is about. Johnny Ace Palmer was brilliant, as he always is. John Carney was brilliant, as he always is. Its not his fault that he got unlucky with the camera angles. To me its no big deal that there is a flash of orange. He still shines through. As for Jay Randall still really good, but his choice of material was something to think about. But above all things, its really really difficult to look good when you are on tv, you can't misdirect a camera. As for Palmer opening with commercial stuff like coin rolls etc...he does this on purpose to get the audience on his side. Which was the right decision in my opinion. Commercial magic is the way to go. John tried something very technically demanding which he is famous for. He works harder than anybody and to me it worked well.
As for Letterman being Letterman, you first have to understand it is his show. I don't see anything wrong with his comments. It was a real world ( not a magic convention), real people, real performing situation. Its no different from performing behind a bar or cocktail party. I have encountered and seen worse situations at the Magic Castle. But lucky for the magic fraternity they picked three performers so far that I think can think on their feet.
But I know my friend Steve Cohen is going to do extremely well also because he performs all the time. Probably more than anybody working around at the moment. I'm sure Ammar will do equally as good. It will be great for the magic world. I just think its good for everybody in Magic that we have 5 of our best on National Television.
Message: Posted by: bobbyk (May 20, 2010 06:33PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-20 19:17, Gazzo wrote:
First off, I don't really understand what all the fuss is about. Johnny Ace Palmer was brilliant, as he always is. John Carney was brilliant, as he always is. Its not his fault that he got unlucky with the camera angles. To me its no big deal that there is a flash of orange. He still shines through. As for Jay Randall still really good, but his choice of material was something to think about. But above all things, its really really difficult to look good when you are on tv, you can't misdirect a camera. As for Palmer opening with commercial stuff like coin rolls etc...he does this on purpose to get the audience on his side. Which was the right decision in my opinion. Commercial magic is the way to go. John tried something very technically demanding which he is famous for. He works harder than anybody and to me it worked well.
As for Letterman being Letterman, you first have to understand it is his show. I don't see anything wrong with his comments. It was a real world ( not a magic convention), real people, real performing situation. Its no different from performing behind a bar or cocktail party. I have encountered and seen worse situations at the Magic Castle. But lucky for the magic fraternity they picked three performers so far that I think can think on there feet.
But I know my friend Steve Cohen is going to do extremely well also because he performs all the time. Probably more than anybody working around at the moment. I'm sure Ammar will do equally as good. It will be great for the magic world. I just think its good for everybody in Magic that we have 5 of our best on National Television.
[/quote]

Great post.... I think we forget that now and then an "orange will flash" .... I also think that if a performer in any situation comes off less than perfect....they need to first look at themselves first. It's always easy to blame the situation, the lighting, the host...in this case.... But I agree, Letterman wasn't bad at all in my opinion. I have certainly had worse than that and I bet anyone reading this can say the same...Doc, I am guessing you can agree with my last sentence :)



Be good,
Bk
Message: Posted by: Doc Eason (May 20, 2010 06:39PM)
Absolutely!
Message: Posted by: magicfish (May 20, 2010 06:54PM)
First of all, Carney doesn't flash. Second: did the poor camera angle flash the orange to the world, or only to the viewing magicians who were STARING at that hand just waiting for a load. I wonder.
Message: Posted by: teevtee (May 20, 2010 07:03PM)
Agreed it is good for magic.
Agreed it is Letterman's right to act as he is and tha he has been fine.
Jason Randall as one of "our best"... I' m sorry, nice guy and all but I cannot agree with that.
Message: Posted by: Destiny (May 20, 2010 08:00PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-20 13:50, Rich B. wrote:
Pulling a coin from behind Letterman's ear? How long have many fathers and grandfathers been doing that for? Centuries?
[/quote]

I thought that's why he did it - he was being ironic.

Palmer was much more entertaining than so many movie stars I've seen on that show pushing their latest product - if there were more guests like him I'd watch more often. Letterman was Letterman - He's exactly the same with wildlife handlers who have to contend with animals running amok and him at the same time. Why would he change? It makes him millions - I don't think with his level of success, in his sixties, he will be amenable to being 'educated' by magicians.

No wonder there's so little magic on television - from what I've read here, magic is so precious that before it can be performed the set needs to be redesigned, the host sent to a re-education camp and made over, the director and camera crew put through magic specific training and the magician better look like a model and be in the latest Paris fashion - not to mention he should only do new exciting never-before-seen magic, that he's practiced for 25 years.

All that despite the fact Johnny Ace Palmer could just walk out there with three baby chicks hidden somewhere on his person and keep me and millions of others thoroughly entertained for 5 minutes.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 20, 2010 09:08PM)
Well here is an idea that seems to be overlooked. Granted I did not wade through each and every post out of fear of falling asleep at the computer.

But the idea is that each and ever performance was GOOD FOR MAGIC! I think each and every man was a good enough representation for people to look at magic after seeing this and think of the art of magic as an ART and in a positive light.

Forget directors, angles, flashes and anything else and keep in mind that these guys whent into the lions den and came out without bleeding. Dave seemed to treat them quite well, and in his own way even tried to help them to shine.

I think it is a giant step forward for magic and magic on TV and I think it was long comming.
Message: Posted by: epoptika (May 20, 2010 10:27PM)
I have only watched the Tues. & Wed. night shows but I must say I was pleasantly surprised. I thought Letterman was extremely accommodating with both performers and did not at all appear to be trying to give them a hard time. There was a time when it seemed the only guests who were safe from his razzing were fellow comedians and sports figures.
And I thought John Carney handled himself just fine.
Message: Posted by: inidyls (May 20, 2010 10:40PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-20 19:17, Gazzo wrote:
First off, I don't really understand what all the fuss is about. Johnny Ace Palmer was brilliant, as he always is. John Carney was brilliant, as he always is. Its not his fault that he got unlucky with the camera angles. To me its no big deal that there is a flash of orange. He still shines through. As for Jay Randall still really good, but his choice of material was something to think about. But above all things, its really really difficult to look good when you are on tv, you can't misdirect a camera. As for Palmer opening with commercial stuff like coin rolls etc...he does this on purpose to get the audience on his side. Which was the right decision in my opinion. Commercial magic is the way to go. John tried something very technically demanding which he is famous for. He works harder than anybody and to me it worked well.
As for Letterman being Letterman, you first have to understand it is his show. I don't see anything wrong with his comments. It was a real world ( not a magic convention), real people, real performing situation. Its no different from performing behind a bar or cocktail party. I have encountered and seen worse situations at the Magic Castle. But lucky for the magic fraternity they picked three performers so far that I think can think on their feet.
But I know my friend Steve Cohen is going to do extremely well also because he performs all the time. Probably more than anybody working around at the moment. I'm sure Ammar will do equally as good. It will be great for the magic world. I just think its good for everybody in Magic that we have 5 of our best on National Television.
[/quote]

I agree with everything you said Gazzo except the John Carney statement. Yes he is brilliant but flashing the orange, coconut is his fault. Unlucky??? He knew the camersas were there.
Each performer got a walk through with the directors, however they did not do a rehearsal with David. David wanted to be fooled and entertained the same as the audience. The set has 5 cameras and they were pointed out.
Did John watch the night before his??????
A professional is ready for anything and can adapt.
Other than that the guys are doing great.
Message: Posted by: teevtee (May 20, 2010 11:10PM)
Steve Cohen... FINALLY SOMEONE DID IT RIGHT!
Message: Posted by: Fred E. Bert (May 20, 2010 11:24PM)
Yes, finally, as I was sure he would. He engaged Letterman and did something out of the ordinary (for laymen at least). Steve was ever the professional and Letterman was very impressed, as was the audience. Way to go Steve!

And btw, he started by doing two things: he TOLD Letterman to clear his desk, an he started by telling a story to set up the magic...
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Brown (May 20, 2010 11:27PM)
Steve Cohen was excellent. The performance was a bit "dry," but he was entertaining and the trick was great- you could hear audience members gasping when he cracked the walnut! Totally polished and not a sense of nervousness. This is what we needed. The bar keeps getting higher!

Jonathan Brown
Message: Posted by: teevtee (May 20, 2010 11:34PM)
He took his time to do ONE simple to follow routine with a narrative. He chose a routine that could easily be performed seated it this environment. He engaged both Dave and Paul as well as the audience. He performed well and he chose a camera safe routine (provided his own cover).

This is exactly what I was hoping for when close up week was announced. Good for him.
Message: Posted by: TKO MAGIC (May 20, 2010 11:37PM)
Steve Cohen, thanks for showing how it's done.
What a great choice to perform. This is what I been talking about.
Very very smart.
Message: Posted by: pepka (May 21, 2010 12:01AM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-20 20:03, teevtee wrote:
Agreed it is good for magic.
Agreed it is Letterman's right to act as he is and tha he has been fine.
Jason Randall as one of "our best"... I' m sorry, nice guy and all but I cannot agree with that.
[/quote]
Agreed. When I read that lineup, I couldn't help but sing that old song from Sesame Street. "One of these things is not like the other." Not trying to be rude or mean, but it's really the truth. Several members of this thread belong there more than Jason. Doc, Gazzo, of course Ricky. But hey, would I have done better? I doubt it. But I wouldn't go on TV with heavily gaffed props with someone like Letterman either.
Message: Posted by: Micheal Leath (May 21, 2010 12:04AM)
Steve Cohen did an excellent job tonight. Each night seems better and better. It seems like each performer may be learning from the previous ones. Steve asked David to move the microphone, got David involved, chose something not so angle sensitive, and made sure that David could not see into his case. Great job Steve.
Message: Posted by: tophatter (May 21, 2010 12:33AM)
Steve Cohen Excellent Great Effect !!
Message: Posted by: Doc Eason (May 21, 2010 12:35AM)
Excellent ... good establishing story, a great trick-probably the first 'miracle' of the week- presented well. Classy dresser... looks the part. Nervousness not evident. Nice handling of DL, who, BTW, is very polite this week. Great job. Kudos Mr Cohen.

All good for magic. hooray.
Message: Posted by: jbayme (May 21, 2010 12:57AM)
I was on set today and thought Steve did an incredible job. He was confident, entertaining, and went in for the kill. Steve practiced all week to try to make the best of things, and I think he knocked it out of the park. We shot a short video with Steve right after we left the theater - you can check it out here:

http://media.theory11.com/3361

Tomorrow night, Michael Ammar's performance is on. Ammar did a great job. He performed Pressure (cell phone in balloon) as well as two other effects, including the Little Hand. It looked great and he had fun with it. The angles looked perfect when I was watching on the monitors, but it's sort of anyone's guess if they choose to cut differently or edit differently in the final show.

Tonight was a very good night for magic. Steve is a pro. Very, very well done.

/ jonathan.bayme
ceo / theory11
Message: Posted by: Futureal (May 21, 2010 01:12AM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-20 09:56, doceason wrote:
If it were me on the dais, I would do material that I have been doing for my entire career. Bullet proof stuff. Like JAP did. Stuff that depends on interaction not heavy sleight of hand. Stuff that would allow DL to chime in like bar patrons have been doing for 30 years. I'd like to think that I would be able to banter with him as I would with any convivial ( drunken ) Tower tourist.

plus

I would fervently hope that the adrenaline that would be surging through my veins didn't squirt out my ears.
[/quote]

Love to see you do the gig Doc, I think you'd be great.
Message: Posted by: doug brewer (May 21, 2010 03:11AM)
All kinds of plusses and minuses to discuss. Just a few things I've learned so far:

Randal: Choice of material is important (critical, really) for TV. Should be material in working repertoire.

Carney: TV angles are critical. Take existing routine in working repertoire and adapt it to the setting.

J.A.Palmer: Control of setting. Did not get side-tracked from DL's banter or comments. Kept consistently on script and progressed his set to the end. As a result, he has performed the most magic effects in the alloted time, yet still ended on a very strong final load (also, those silver plated Gazzo cups look brilliant!)

Cohen: Back to choice of material. Cohen's strength is his manner and calmness. His choice of material allowed a consistent, steady pace. He looked the part of a "millionaire magician". Controlled the setting. Got DL involved.

Ammar: I'm sure will be great. He filmed Monday, so he did not have the benefit of "knowing" ahead of time what the issues we are discussing would be.

I've been thinking (as I think all of us should), what have I taken away from this and what would I do in a similar situation. Though it's unlikely most of us will ever be on Letterman, it is possible that we could be on local news magazine type cast.

What I've learned:
* do only material in your working repertoire
* get host involved in the magic (even holding a prop is "involved")
* be aware of angles, and if possible, work with camera director to make angles your advantage (probably not possible with DL show)
* keep the set "moving forward" - do not allow the host (even accidentally) to side-track progression of set
* have something interesting to say and perhaps anticipate questions from the host so that at least you sound interesting
* dress consistently with character

There's more, I'm sure. But these points were what jumped out at me.
Message: Posted by: Adammcd (May 21, 2010 06:43AM)
Steve Cohen was very good. I enjoyed it. My wife did not. My wife said that the lemon was obviously prepared in some way. She thought Steve was boring. I thought Steve was Brilliant. He came in with a great effect and told a story. I don't think the magic was as good as maybe Johnny or, especially, Carney, but it was good. That's my taste. I saw what was coming. In Carney's case I was so completely fooled by the ball under the class that my wife was laughing hysterically. My wife has actually liked Jason Randal the best thus far. Letterman was further restrained last night.

This week flew by I can't believe Ammar goes on tonight. It's over already. A guy at the Café suggested we, as magicians, email CBS and let them know we really enjoyed close-up magic week and they should do more stuff like it in the future. I think it's a good idea.

Adam
Message: Posted by: Munseys_Magic (May 21, 2010 06:51AM)
Cohen was fantastic! I think the fact that he got to see 3 nights of cluse-up magic before his appearance might have helped him work out some kinks. Way to go, Steve!
Message: Posted by: Steve Friedberg (May 21, 2010 07:32AM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-21 07:43, Adammcd wrote:
Steve Cohen was very good. I enjoyed it. MA guy at the Café suggested we, as magicians, email CBS and let them know we really enjoyed close-up magic week and they should do more stuff like it in the future. I think it's a good idea.
[/quote]

Adam,
What we, as magicians, think isn't important. Look to Nielsen for the overnight numbers. That'll tell you how often Close-Up Magic Week is staged on Letterman. If the audience is there, great. If not, nope.
Message: Posted by: Rich B. (May 21, 2010 07:41AM)
I thought Steve Cohen was great last night. Great choice of effects. He also kept Letterman under control with minimal interruptions. I do think Letterman wasn't nearly as bad this week thus far as he has been in the past with magicians. Some of his comments were invited by the choice of material or presentations.

Here is another thread on the Genii forum about the shows. I think you'll get a different perspective than most people that have posted on the Café:

[url]http://www.geniimagazine.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/221101/Close_up_Magic_on_Letterman#Post221101[/url]

Also, John Carney himself makes a brief post about the show which you may find interesting.

Rich B.
Message: Posted by: Adammcd (May 21, 2010 07:58AM)
Sorry meant to say that we as magicians should write in as viewers and say what fun it was. I understand all about Neilsen Ratings I have a few friends that work for them. I also understand the power of a write in campaign. I am also a believer in if you like something someone did you should tell them. It's the same reason I vote; It's my way of saying something when my actual voice may not be heard.

Adam
Message: Posted by: jazzy snazzy (May 21, 2010 08:11AM)
Good idea Adammcd. They do take note of positive viewer responses. Might not accomplish much at first but it can only be good for magic. Hope they do this again next year.

Great post Doug. It's good to get us all thinking about performing on television and our persentations in general.
Message: Posted by: Adammcd (May 21, 2010 08:23AM)
Just want to give credit where credit is due....Writing in is not my idea..but one I will do after tomorrow.

[quote]
On 2010-05-20 16:33, manreb wrote:
Okay. You liked this, you didn't like that. You thought it was a disaster, you though it was great.

We all watched. We wish there was more of this on TV. So what do you want to do?

Might I suggest that we all go to the the letterman web site and say what a thrill it was to watch and that we would like more of it. Not as a magician buta as a TV viewer. Maybe if we get 10% of the 43,000 members of this site to do so we can have something to complain about every week.

Just a thought.
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: jazzy snazzy (May 21, 2010 08:59AM)
Ooops, missed that one. Thanks manreb!
Message: Posted by: Corbett (May 21, 2010 09:25AM)
I've DVR'd all of these, and enthusiastically look forward to watching them each morning when I wake up (I am an early bird at night).
Message: Posted by: CarlEJones (May 21, 2010 09:30AM)
I watched all of them this morning since this was the first time I've had this week to do so without interuptions. Camera angles weren't so kind a few times but I think it's fair to say that guests on a show don't have a lot of control over that area so you have to go with whatever they throw at you.

I really enjoyed all of the performers so it's hard to rank them. If I were going to watch one of their performances again though, it would be Steve.
Message: Posted by: cairo (May 21, 2010 11:00AM)
Cairo sez Cohen is King.
Message: Posted by: TKO MAGIC (May 21, 2010 11:26AM)
From John Carney's own words "When I asked for a table, they said no. When I asked if I could put my load bag on the floor or chair.....no. When I asked if I could lay down a mat, or a board to cover the 6" square indention in the table.....no. Had to sit sideways, halfway off the chair, with loads in different places then normal....awkward angles for steals.

There were 5 different cameras, filming from 5 different angles. Letterman's hands were one inch from the props which would expose everything, several times over. Then I had to interact to interruptions, and stay on track. Millions of viewers. Ten minutes "rehearsal". If you are demanding to the director or crew, you are out. Live audience, tons of crew. Tons of pressure. Trying to do something impressive and not play it safe. Trying to be entertaining. Trying to relax.

Easy...from an armchair at home.
Message: Posted by: cairo (May 21, 2010 11:31AM)
TKO was this a conversation with Carney or are his words somewhere online for us to see?
Message: Posted by: BarryFernelius (May 21, 2010 11:45AM)
Carney's words are from the Genii thread referenced above.
Message: Posted by: Adammcd (May 21, 2010 11:45AM)
Here's a link.

[quote]
On 2010-05-21 08:41, Rich B. wrote:
I
Here is another thread on the Genii forum about the shows. I think you'll get a different perspective than most people that have posted on the Café:

[url]http://www.geniimagazine.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/221101/Close_up_Magic_on_Letterman#Post221101[/url]

Also, John Carney himself makes a brief post about the show which you may find interesting.

Rich B.
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: cairo (May 21, 2010 11:45AM)
Nevremind, just saw it on the Genii forum.
Message: Posted by: Gianni (May 21, 2010 11:46AM)
I have a lot of things I want to say about the whole week but will start with one thing. I thought Steve Cohen did an absolutely tremendous job but I think I am right about one thing: I do not remember him getting the over-the-head camera angle that hurt John Carney and JAP on their loads. I think Steve Cohen caught a break that JAP and Carney did not get. And Steve Cohen had to go to his suitcase for eggs, orange, walnut, etc. Am I right about him getting a break on the deadly camera angle that the others did not get?

Gianni
Message: Posted by: cairo (May 21, 2010 11:48AM)
He didn't get the overhead camera, I think, because he had the forsight to move the microphone that was obscuring some view from the front angle.
Message: Posted by: Daniel White (May 21, 2010 12:03PM)
He specifically asked them to not use it at all
Message: Posted by: Adammcd (May 21, 2010 12:05PM)
He was last to film (ammar filmed on Monday as is normal for David, films monday and Friday back to back)and asked for NO overhead. Simple as that. http://www.linkingpage.com/magicnewsfeed/2010/5/20/magic-newscast-lettermans-magic-week.html
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (May 21, 2010 12:07PM)
LESSON? LIVE AND LEARN!

Frankly, they were all good magically, only difference was their personalities and good or bad breaks camera angle wise.

I doubt if the next day any laymen even remember any of the details, like the flashes or drops.

IT WAS GOOD FOR CLOSE-UP MAGIC.
Message: Posted by: epoptika (May 21, 2010 12:12PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-20 13:40, Moxahalla wrote:
Shoot me for saying this...

The audience for Letterman is under 40 & "hip"...

WE know the performers this week are world-class...but do David's young lay audience see the performers as nothing more than pudgy, middle-aged, balding men - doing coin & card tricks that their nerdy Uncles used to do to them at birthday parties?

Where were the young, fresh, cool close-up guys?---Mmm, are there any?

(Playing devil's advocate, only)
[/quote]

Actually, David Letterman himself is past 60 and the median age of his viewers is 54 years old.
Message: Posted by: epoptika (May 21, 2010 12:29PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-20 13:01, RiffRaff wrote:
[quote]
On 2010-05-20 11:44, TKO MAGIC wrote:
Just the way he walked out with confidence and complemented Dave and the band was smart, a true professional.
[/quote]

The band began playing during his set, just like they did to Carney. I think Palmer handled it perfectly.
[/quote]
Although I (along with many others apparently) thought the musical interludes were a bad idea I don't believe it was meant to rush the performers. I think Paul thought his musical bits were helping to punctuate the magic. He always throws musical "rim-shots" in through-out the show. A bad fit here, perhaps, but not maliciously motivated.

And I don't know why people continue to say Letterman was a jerk. I think he was on his absolute best behavior and, as others have pointed out, far more reserved than your average bar patron. Give Letterman credit for giving magicians two weeks of exposure on his show.
Message: Posted by: Andrew Zuber (May 21, 2010 12:31PM)
I enjoyed Steve's performance as well. A bit slow for my taste, but that's just a personal preference. I think he nailed it.
I'm surprised people didn't like the fact that JAP wore a tux on the show. That's in his character - it's how he performs. The staff at Letterman obviously aren't going to accommodate any special requests from the performers (Carney's quote made that clear) so why should the performer have to change his style? He was booked on the show because that's what he does. A tuxedo almost demands respect - he was a class act before he even sat down, simply because of what he was wearing. You don't see people complaining about the ripped jeans and ratty t-shirts that a rock band wears when they perform on the show. They'd look pretty ridiculous sporting khaki pants and a dress shirt and tie because it doesn't mesh with what they do.

Johnny wore what fits his act. Seems like a no brainer to me.
Message: Posted by: inidyls (May 21, 2010 12:39PM)
[ Pete Biro wrote:
LESSON? LIVE AND LEARN!

Frankly, they were all good magically, only difference was their personalities and good or bad breaks camera angle wise.

" I think Randall and Johnny Ace Palmer had the best personalities.





I doubt if the next day any laymen even remember any of the details, like the flashes or drops.

" A better question is do you think the layperson will remember the trick or magician in general?





IT WAS GOOD FOR CLOSE-UP MAGIC. Yes it Was.
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: inidyls (May 21, 2010 12:52PM)
It sounds like Steve Cohen did his homework , put a lot of thought into it, researched it , took control of the directors, Got help from fellow magicians , studied the show earlier in the work.

Lesson here???? Be prepared

I lost a lot of respect for John Carney. Making excuses saying it was out of my control and the "easy ... from an armchair at home comment." That was lame!!!
Be the expert and professional you say you are , everybody makes mistakes, own up to them.
Maybe you should have went the same route Steve did?

I loved your performance on Letterman the most, Just be humble. No excuses, we are only human. Everybody makes mistakes.
Message: Posted by: epoptika (May 21, 2010 01:00PM)
BTW; I forgot to mention that even though I'd read numerous posts before I watched Carney's performance on YouTube I did not see the orange or coconut flashing. Granted I was very focused on Letterman's face to see how he was reacting to the magic. I did not bother to replay the video. I thought the segment went very well and I found Carney entertaining and well up to the task. I agree that I would leave Bob Read's wand on my mantle and have a replacement made that looks a little less road weary.

I think it is wise to always try to watch these shows with a few non-magician friends if you want to know whether the show was a failure or success from a layman's point of view. It matters little what we think.

As for who did the best - I imagine you'd get a different answer from every layman you asked. One size never fits all.
Message: Posted by: TKO MAGIC (May 21, 2010 01:20PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-21 13:52, inidyls wrote:
It sounds like Steve Cohen did his homework , put a lot of thought into it, researched it , took control of the directors, Got help from fellow magicians , studied the show earlier in the work.

Lesson here???? Be prepared

I lost a lot of respect for John Carney. Making excuses saying it was out of my control and the "easy ... from an armchair at home comment." That was lame!!!
Be the expert and professional you say you are , everybody makes mistakes, own up to them.
Maybe you should have went the same route Steve did?

I loved your performance on Letterman the most, Just be humble. No excuses, we are only human. Everybody makes mistakes.
[/quote]

JV,
I love ya and everything, but that is harsh.
John has every right to state how he feels. I don't think he was making excuses. I feel for John right now with a lot of people critiquing him. He'll always be one of my favorites.
Message: Posted by: Illucifer (May 21, 2010 01:54PM)
Not that it's a competition, of course, but John Carney still takes the prize in my book for the week so far. Palmer and Cohen were both very enjoyable, and did some fantastic magic, but neither of them really did what we call "yes, and" in the improv world. Carney seemed to do this instinctively. He took Dave's offers and offered back, whereas Palmer and Cohen seemed to be on a track they didn't wish to deviate from. When you refuse an offer or ignore it, you stop the scene cold. I didn't get the sense that they were really listening to Dave, but John was, and he was having fun with it.

Johnny Ace Palmer was smiling and having fun, but still was shutting Dave down a bit by not playing, I thought. I realize, of course, he has to contend with the fact that he has 3 live baby chicks loaded.
Steve Cohen, who is a very fine magician, comes across (at least, to me) as a bit condescending and pretentious.

Jason Randal actually seemed to listen and respond better to Dave, as well, but his magic simply made me wince. I don't consider him in the same league as these other gentlemen.
Message: Posted by: merlyn2001sh (May 21, 2010 02:15PM)
I think the week's worth of entertainment was great on Letterman and all of the performers quite talented. With that said though this thread had quite a bit of debate over some effects with bad angles and possibly tipping things (ie the orange incident for example). While I agree that in that case for example, John did a great job with a difficult routine, part of me still believes that if you studied your audience (ie Letterman) ahead of time, he may have realized that camera angle was possible and taken steps to counter it. A flash is a flash is a flash and the best of us do it sometimes, but it shouldn't detract from the entertainment and that is one main reason why people today watch magic--for entertainment. If they like you, their brains will forget the flash. If they don't like you, they will remember things that didn't happen to justify it.

Just my .02
Message: Posted by: TKO MAGIC (May 21, 2010 02:40PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-21 15:15, merlyn2001sh wrote:
I think the week's worth of entertainment was great on Letterman and all of the performers quite talented. With that said though this thread had quite a bit of debate over some effects with bad angles and possibly tipping things (ie the orange incident for example). While I agree that in that case for example, John did a great job with a difficult routine, part of me still believes that if you studied your audience (ie Letterman) ahead of time, he may have realized that camera angle was possible and taken steps to counter it. A flash is a flash is a flash and the best of us do it sometimes, but it shouldn't detract from the entertainment and that is one main reason why people today watch magic--for entertainment. If they like you, their brains will forget the flash. If they don't like you, they will remember things that didn't happen to justify it.

Just my .02
[/quote]

I agree
you guys might think I'm nuts but so far I liked Randall the best. Not his magic but his interaction with Dave. He was funny, charming, polite and made it about Dave.
As for the best trick from a magicians view , by far it was Carney. He had you looking every where, I love that trick. He is the BEST!
As for who looked more professional. Steve Cohen
Who managed the set/difficulties better By far it was Steve
Message: Posted by: Gianni (May 21, 2010 03:48PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-21 13:07, Pete Biro wrote:

I doubt if the next day any laymen even remember any of the details, like the flashes or drops.
[/quote]

Unfortunately, there were several people discussing the flashes and drops on the Letterman website blog. Laymen are far smarter and observant than magicians like to think.

Gianni
Message: Posted by: The One (May 21, 2010 04:31PM)
I also enjoyed Carney the best. He seemed to be "in the moment" and not rushing through a prepared speech. I also think he got the most out of each moment of magic.
Message: Posted by: gaffed (May 21, 2010 06:47PM)
I think that perhaps some might possibly be losing sight of this entire thing.
How many nationally televised shows have EVER dedicated an [i][b]entire week[/b][/i] to close up magic?
And, especially from one as well known as David Letterman?
I would venture to say that most, if not all, people had no idea what close up magic is! They simply think of magic as, well.....magic, and then only think of people such as David Copperfield, David Blaine and errr…. Criss Angel ( :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ) at least these very talented close up magicians have come to the public eye and can then be appreciated for a venue of magic that most people were never aware of before.

No matter how much one may do some Monday armchair quarterbacking here, this is just plain and simple…….DAMN good for magic!
Message: Posted by: Futureal (May 21, 2010 07:33PM)
^ spot on.
Message: Posted by: Agaton (May 21, 2010 08:16PM)
I was glued on the TV set every night just to watch Letterman's Magic Close-up week. Randall, Carney, Palmer and Cohen did a wonderful job! Everyone knows the pressure and the strict conditions that you have to bear with on DL's set...plus the thought that you have to do something incredible and not end up with something that is safe. I admire their effort (and nerves of steel!).

Special mention to John Carney! I love his performance! Now we're off to Ammar!
Message: Posted by: Chad Sanborn (May 21, 2010 10:19PM)
Kudos to everyone so far and I hope Ammar doesn't disappoint.
So far from what I have seen, all but one has suffered from poor choice of material.
Randall, Carney, and Palmer should have chosen things that were less angle sensitive. There is plenty of stuff that would fit the bill. I understand that you want to do something familiar to you. But if it doesn't fit the venue, ditch it and go on to something else. This seems obvious to me and I am not sure why they resisted this idea. Carney admits he knew all the restrictions ahead of time. So why not tailor a better routine then?

Palmer was doing it right when he started with the coins and ring stuff but lost it with the cups and balls. Too angley and awkward loads.
Cohen did a better job with his set. His stuff was not nearly as angle restrictive. And so was a bit more magical. (personal opinion ahead-->)Sadly I thought he had a boring personality. But he was best prepared so far.

I am anxious to see what Ammar will bring to the table. He seems to have a good understanding of what works on TV and what doesn't, and is my bet to adapt the best routine for the restrictions.

Not sure why, but it really bothers me to see some of the best magicians out there suffering from not understanding the venue, and what they were getting into. Nervousness is one thing, but good performers channel it into the performance. I think most underestimated performing in front of the camera. Its a very daunting. I have been lucky enough lately to fall backwards into a small acting career and I can speak from experience that when they yell 'rolling' and the set gets quiet, and all eyes and cameras are focused on you waiting for the magic to happen, its quite unnerving. If I screw up, they yell cut and I get a second chance. There is no second chance on Letterman.

Anyway, enough of my rant. Go Ammar!!!

ps...To those who think Gazzo, or Malone might be better on this type of show, only think that because they can give back to David what he gives. Sharp, pointed one-liners. I would say to you that, that is probably the exact reason they don't get chosen!
Message: Posted by: jazzy snazzy (May 21, 2010 11:08PM)
The Little Hand! YAY!

And a BIG hand for Michael!
Message: Posted by: The One (May 21, 2010 11:11PM)
I would've rather seen the coins through silk though.
Message: Posted by: teevtee (May 21, 2010 11:13PM)
Well Ammar clearly was the most comfortable, relaxed and natural as a guest. Dave seemed to like him and it was even a bit of an interview not just a performance.

However there was also no routine, just 4 simple tricks. I have a feeling that audiences will be impressed with Pressure though to me the method is so obvious as to not be a sound trick. Still, given the limitations he was probably wise to take this approach and I think he came off best of all.
Message: Posted by: ThomasJ (May 21, 2010 11:16PM)
I'm a little surprised Michael did the balloon trick (I think it's called Pressure by Danny Garcia) that every 14 year old exposes on Youtube. I enjoyed the phone vanish though.
Message: Posted by: magicfish (May 21, 2010 11:26PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-21 13:52, inidyls wrote:
It sounds like Steve Cohen did his homework , put a lot of thought into it, researched it , took control of the directors, Got help from fellow magicians , studied the show earlier in the work.

Lesson here???? Be prepared

I lost a lot of respect for John Carney. Making excuses saying it was out of my control and the "easy ... from an armchair at home comment." That was lame!!!
Be the expert and professional you say you are , everybody makes mistakes, own up to them.
Maybe you should have went the same route Steve did?

I loved your performance on Letterman the most, Just be humble. No excuses, we are only human. Everybody makes mistakes.
[/quote]
Carney doesn't call himself an expert and a professional- we do- because he is. Perhaps you should read his words again. A) he got a horrible camera angle. B) were you watching the effect as a layman would or were you staring at his hand waiting for the load?

Fish
Message: Posted by: Chad Sanborn (May 21, 2010 11:32PM)
Ammar! My man!
Well you did good. good. But...You didn't have a good routine.
What the heck! Pressure was a good choice. The opening bit with
the scarf sucked. Looks good, but Dave wanted to examine it, and
couldn't. He even dogged it later when talking to Ashton Kutcher.

Ok so I was unimpressed with magic week. 5 chances to WOW America
with some great close-up magic. And I think we fell short of that
mark.

Bummer.

Could I have done better? Hard to say, but I couldn't have done any worse!
Message: Posted by: magicfish (May 21, 2010 11:51PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-22 00:32, Chad Sanborn wrote:
Ammar! My man!
Well you did good. good. But...You didn't have a good routine.
What the heck! Pressure was a good choice. The opening bit with
the scarf sucked. Looks good, but Dave wanted to examine it, and
couldn't. He even dogged it later when talking to Ashton Kutcher.

Ok so I was unimpressed with magic week. 5 chances to WOW America
with some great close-up magic. And I think we fell short of that
mark.

Bummer.

Could I have done better? Hard to say, but I couldn't have done any worse!
[/quote]

The scarf trick was by far the best thing he did. It didn't matter that it wasn't inspected. A scarf- with no cover- VISIBLY penetrated through Dave's mug! I remember as a kid seeing Buddy Farnan do this through a mike stand. I know how its done and you know how its done, but that doesn't matter. Do you forget what this looks like to layman eyes? Its impossible.

Rod
Message: Posted by: Chad Sanborn (May 22, 2010 12:08AM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-22 00:51, magicfish wrote:


The scarf trick was by far the best thing he did. It didn't matter that it wasn't inspected. A scarf- with no cover- VISIBLY penetrated through Dave's mug! I remember as a kid seeing Buddy Farnan do this through a mike stand. I know how its done and you know how its done, but that doesn't matter. Do you forget what this looks like to layman eyes? Its impossible.

Rod
[/quote]

that's why Dave made degrading comments about it later in the show to Ashton Kutcher.
It was a good trick, but again the wrong one for this show.
Message: Posted by: arizona (May 22, 2010 12:15AM)
I agree that it's all about the laymen and they view magic differently as evident by them liking Randall more. So I'm not going to say anything about his performance this week. I do want to add that his first 3 appearances were pretty good maybe it was because he was using his bread and butter stuff which he's polished over his career.

The flashes. When the orange flash occured I saw it barely the first time around but didn't think anything of it because Carney had my attention. I guess there was a lot of posters on Lettermans forum claiming to have seen this and that I would bet a great percentage of them studied the clips over and over. I for one didn' see balls tucked in the sofa chair and I watched all the performances twice, once live and then the next day. And I did not hear any chirping during Palmers performance. A squeek once but I didn't think it had anything to do with what was going on during Palmers set. But I also wasn't fully at attention when it was being aired live there were kids in the room and the volume on my tv wasn't adjusted with the kids and others in the room. Live in person these magicians would probably be 200 percent (lol) better, in complete control of us. It's how its been when I seen some the big names at conventions or lectures.

But all in all I enjoyed this week and it was an entertaining close up week on Letterman. It would have been cool if Cyril was one the performers this week.
Message: Posted by: Gianni (May 22, 2010 12:18AM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-22 00:16, ThomasJ wrote:
... I enjoyed the phone vanish though.
[/quote]

I thought Ammar did a terrific job. He was so easy going and relaxed that it added to the enjoyment.

I, too, loved the cell phone vanish, but D**N that DVR (TIVO to some). Yes, I could not resist, and went back to look at it again frame by frame, as any audience member with the TIVO can do. And in just one frame you saw the move.

I think these guys must be credited with withstanding enormous pressure. I wonder, however, how much close-up magic can withstand the scrutiny of modern appliances.

Gianni
Message: Posted by: ted french (May 22, 2010 12:19AM)
I havent read all the post but am the only one that sees how difficult it is to perform sitting down to the side and cramped? It would be like doing magic in a phone booth.
Message: Posted by: jazzy snazzy (May 22, 2010 12:26AM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-22 01:18, Gianni wrote:
I wonder, however, how much close-up magic can withstand the scrutiny of modern appliances.
[/quote]
Almost none.
Message: Posted by: CarlEJones (May 22, 2010 12:29AM)
I think you hit the nail on the head with your statement! Good observation!

Posted: May 22, 2010 1:19am                 
I havent read all the post but am the only one that sees how difficult it is to perform sitting down to the side and cramped? It would be like doing magic in a phone booth.
Message: Posted by: magicfish (May 22, 2010 12:36AM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-22 01:08, Chad Sanborn wrote:
[quote]
On 2010-05-22 00:51, magicfish wrote:


The scarf trick was by far the best thing he did. It didn't matter that it wasn't inspected. A scarf- with no cover- VISIBLY penetrated through Dave's mug! I remember as a kid seeing Buddy Farnan do this through a mike stand. I know how its done and you know how its done, but that doesn't matter. Do you forget what this looks like to layman eyes? Its impossible.

Rod
[/quote]

that's why Dave made degrading comments about it later in the show to Ashton Kutcher.
It was a good trick, but again the wrong one for this show.
[/quote]

Letterman made degrading comments about it because he's David Letterman- that's how he makes his living. Secondly, Kutcher didn't pull out a balloon, or an I phone, or a baby dolls hand,he pulled out a large sheet or what originally looked like a white scarf. Letterman made the link in an attempt at humour- again, that's his job. The scarf bit perfect for the show.

Rod
Message: Posted by: tophatter (May 22, 2010 02:21AM)
Okay Don't get all over me here I think Ammar is Awesome but I feel he choose these effects for one reason To sell them at his lectures . Like I said Don't get all over me for saying this but he should have performed his signature effects . I have to say he comes in last very disapointed !!
Message: Posted by: tophatter (May 22, 2010 02:23AM)
Carney & Palmer were the best performances What do you guys Think ?
Message: Posted by: Algebra2 (May 22, 2010 02:30AM)
Where can I find the name of the silk effect through mug?
Message: Posted by: Destiny (May 22, 2010 02:51AM)
[quote]
...I feel he choose these effects for one reason To sell them at his lectures...
[/quote]

[quote]Where can I find the name of the silk effect through mug? [/quote]

tophatter should be the first booked for Mentalist Week :)
Message: Posted by: tophatter (May 22, 2010 02:53AM)
Destiny That Is To Funny !
Message: Posted by: arizona (May 22, 2010 03:31AM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-22 01:26, jazzy snazzy wrote:
[quote]
On 2010-05-22 01:18, Gianni wrote:
I wonder, however, how much close-up magic can withstand the scrutiny of modern appliances.
[/quote]
Almost none.
[/quote]

I think I would have done Jennings Oil and Water because I haven't seen anyone doing it on TV and it allows for some byplay and interaction between each separation. And I also would have done coins with the last coin traveling into Dave's closed fist then do Jennings coin thru hand. I believe none these TiVo would catch. Oil and Water I believe would just be guessed as card handling even slowed down.
Message: Posted by: magicfish (May 22, 2010 07:38AM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-22 03:30, Algebra2 wrote:
Where can I find the name of the silk effect through mug?
[/quote]
Its called "the silk through mug"
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 22, 2010 07:39AM)
It is also possible that Dave himself is learning how to get the most out of magicians. Being the first one in the series may not have been a position I would have wanted.
Message: Posted by: Paul Rathbun (May 22, 2010 07:45AM)
I would not want to have to face the challenges these magicians had to. Turning to your side and performing on a high desk while Letterman breaks your flow. Then there is the studio audience over your right shoulder and a camera shooting you from above. Not a lot of safe angles in that situation. Kudos to the magicians who could get away with anything in that situation.
Message: Posted by: ChristopherM (May 22, 2010 07:47AM)
It's been heartening to see a close-up magic week; probably the biggest talk show here in the UK is Friday Night with Jonathan Ross on BBC1. Whilst he gets a lot of repeat appearances from quite a few of his guests, to my knowledge there have only ever been two magicians on the show, once each. He had Derren Brown on once way back in early 2003, before his Russian Roulette special had aired. Then Dynamo made a short appearance 3 years ago. There's hardly any air time for close-up magic at all here, sadly.
Message: Posted by: epoptika (May 22, 2010 08:48AM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-22 01:19, ted french wrote:
I havent read all the post but am the only one that sees how difficult it is to perform sitting down to the side and cramped? It would be like doing magic in a phone booth.
[/quote]

Worth repeating Ted's comment here.
Also worth mentioning that performing one on one is not the ideal situation for getting the most out of your magic as you don't have the group dynamic working for you. Much easier to work for two or more specs.
Hats off to all of them! :)
Message: Posted by: inidyls (May 22, 2010 10:23AM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-22 00:26, magicfish wrote:
[quote]
On 2010-05-21 13:52, inidyls wrote:
It sounds like Steve Cohen did his homework , put a lot of thought into it, researched it , took control of the directors, Got help from fellow magicians , studied the show earlier in the work.

Lesson here???? Be prepared

I lost a lot of respect for John Carney. Making excuses saying it was out of my control and the "easy ... from an armchair at home comment." That was lame!!!
Be the expert and professional you say you are , everybody makes mistakes, own up to them.
Maybe you should have went the same route Steve did?

I loved your performance on Letterman the most, Just be humble. No excuses, we are only human. Everybody makes mistakes.
[/quote]
Carney doesn't call himself an expert and a professional- we do- because he is. Perhaps you should read his words again. A) he got a horrible camera angle. B) were you watching the effect as a layman would or were you staring at his hand waiting for the load?

Fish
[/quote]

Yes Carney calls himself a professional and an expert. I heard this right from him. And he should he deserves it. He got caught lying as well when he made up his excuses too. Read what Carney said then listen to what Steven Cohen said. Two totally opposite stories about talking with the directors.
Let me change your thoughts to my thoughts on this:
A. He got caught on a camera angle. It's only a bad angle if you get caught.
B. Watching with my family , both of my kids and my girlfriend noticed it right away. Why don't you read the Letterman forum board that someone posted here. All from laypeople, they noticed the orange plus every other part of his routine.
Message: Posted by: Adammcd (May 22, 2010 10:33AM)
It was good. How weird is it that the Friday show was taped on Monday....Ammar is brilliant. Great week in and for magic. Sorry to see it end.

Adam
Message: Posted by: CarlEJones (May 22, 2010 10:41AM)
After watching all of the performances I have to say that I think the best overall was Michael. Relaxed, funny and good. While I really like the other guys I think that Michael seemed to be the best fit for that spot.

Great week for magic!
Message: Posted by: BarryFernelius (May 22, 2010 10:58AM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-22 00:32, Chad Sanborn wrote:

Could I have done better? Hard to say, but I couldn't have done any worse!
[/quote]

Yes, I know that you're a professional magician and actor. Yes, you're and up and coming talent. Yes, I know that you're a better performer than 99.9% of the people who post on the Café.

But if there's any possibility that Karma operates in the universe, you might want to beg the moderators to remove that last remark. I know that you don't believe it, but there's a very real possibility that if you were in the same situation as this week's performers, you would go down in flames.
Message: Posted by: BarryFernelius (May 22, 2010 11:05AM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-22 11:23, inidyls wrote:

Yes Carney calls himself a professional and an expert. I heard this right from him. And he should he deserves it. He got caught lying as well when he made up his excuses too. Read what Carney said then listen to what Steven Cohen said. Two totally opposite stories about talking with the directors.
[/quote]

That's one possible explanation, but it's not the only possibility. Do you think that it's possible that Carney may have talked to one person, and Cohen may have talked to another person? Is it really that far-fetched that Carney received one answer, and Cohen received a different answer? Is it too presumptuous to think that the directors may give inconsistent answers?

Unless you were there and know the truth, it's a bit rude to call someone else a liar, don't you think?
Message: Posted by: BarryFernelius (May 22, 2010 11:14AM)
My wife's impression of Michael Ammar's performance, in her own words:

"Wow! After all of these years, Michael still has what it takes. So cool and confident! Everybody else looked to the past, but Michael is moving into the future. He is, without a doubt, the hippest magician to appear on the program this week. Who'd a thunk it?"
Message: Posted by: SWNerndase (May 22, 2010 11:35AM)
The SWN awards for the week:

1. "Best effect of the week" goes to Steve Cohen. Single easy to follow plot with a truly impossible effect. Miraculous. (Odd that he did not return the borrowed ring to its owner during the segment. Still, best trick by far all week.)

2. "Most likeable magician on TV award" goes to John Carney. Smooth routine full of surprises, performed with understated charm. Bad camera angle a tough break, but he comes across as a guy you'd like to hang out with. Vanish of the glass really fooled Letterman. Nice.

3. "Kids, dogs and Star Spangled Banner award" goes to Johnny Ace Palmer. Yeah yeah yeah, I get it. He's been doing that routine forever, it's very polished and smooth and it ends on the cutest little things you've ever seen. He did well, and the chicks are a memorable image. No shame in that. No risk or imagination either though. He was good. He's always good. He's just not great.

4. The "I'm a magic dealer now and I've forgotten what magic is" award goes to Michael Ammar. Remember his first Carson spot? Back when he cared enough to try? Here he was the most relaxed, got some nice face time with Dave to start out the set, but it quickly turned sour for me when it was clear he didn't bring his "A game" to the show. Wasted the opportunity. Really too bad.

5. The "I"m a store bought hack and have no business being on TV award" goes to Jason Randall. Bad choices, amateur mistakes and not worth analyzing further. I'm trying to put it out of my mind, in fact. Bleh. Embarrassing. Upstaged by an actor remembering a simple trick from childhood.

I give these awards in the order I would rank the performers, 1-5.

And I'm in complete agreement with those here who said that no matter what else, this is good for magic in general. Let's hope this happens more often. I understand that Craig Ferguson is going to do another of his "magic weeks" coming up soon. Maybe TV is starting to break open for magicians a little more? Terrific if true. I really enjoyed watching Letterman this week. Well, most nights anyway.

SWN
Message: Posted by: ScottSullivan (May 22, 2010 12:08PM)
I've seen people on this and other forums deriding Ammar for doing material from his lecture. Sure, he did stuff that he has for sale, but it's entirely possible that it wasn't for purely mercenary reasons. The material was strong (the silk trick is old but powerful and he's improved it), funny (Letterman genuinely laughed at the little hand and it's tough to get a genuine laugh out of Dave) and polished. The material was polished BECAUSE he does it in his lecture which, to the best of my knowledge, is what he's been doing lately. Why wouldn't he perform the material in which he was most confident?

Ammar came across as a friendly, real person who is good at his craft. That's very good for magic in general. And, if he sells a few more lecture tickets/notes/props because of it, I don't begrudge him that.
Message: Posted by: gaffed (May 22, 2010 12:12PM)
Does anyone by chance have some link to the Michael Ammar performance?
Video's of the other performances where up and about the following day but I can't for the life of me find one for MA's performance.
Message: Posted by: Mb217 (May 22, 2010 12:24PM)
Nice rundown SWN. Briefly, I thought Cohen was a bit too wordy and meandering. Enjoyed Johnny Ace Palmer the best but enjoyed something from all of them. butEnjoyed watching for the week.

I would like to know if you could see the 5 closeup guys on Letterman, who would you choose?

For me, I would like to see on Letterman: Bill Malone, Chris Kenner, Mickey Silver, Apollo Robbins and Jay Sankey.

What's your opinnions on these guys, would they work or not? Just asking.
Message: Posted by: paynow (May 22, 2010 12:30PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-22 13:24, Mb217 wrote:
Nice rundown SWN. Briefly, I thought Cohen was a bit too wordy and meandering. Enjoyed Johnny Ace Palmer the best but enjoyed something from all of them. butEnjoyed watching for the week.

I would like to know if you could see the 5 closeup guys on Letterman, who would you choose?

For me, I would like to see on Letterman: Bill Malone, Chris Kenner, Mickey Silver, Apollo Robbins and Jay Sankey.

What's your opinnions on these guys, would they work or not? Just asking.
[/quote]

Definitely Malone, not only because of his outstanding close-up ability but for his comedic ability as well.
Message: Posted by: Salby (May 22, 2010 12:33PM)
.
No $100 Bill Switch to a different denomination or Mis-made Bill?????

This would have WOW'd People.

Not even a coin trick all week???

Surprising???
.
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (May 22, 2010 12:38PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-22 03:30, Algebra2 wrote:
Where can I find the name of the silk effect through mug?
[/quote]

It's called "silk thru mug".
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (May 22, 2010 12:38PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-22 08:38, magicfish wrote:
[quote]
On 2010-05-22 03:30, Algebra2 wrote:
Where can I find the name of the silk effect through mug?
[/quote]
Its called "the silk through mug"
[/quote]

LOL. Beat me to it :)
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (May 22, 2010 12:51PM)
Wow. How impressive we are here at the Café.

Calling Carney a liar.
Knowing that Ammar just wants to sell more stuff at his lectures.
Saying Palmer was talking down to the audience (Actually I don't believe he ever said anything to he audience but did utter.."wow, great audience".


I'll say it again. You people are harsh, and it seems, for all the wrong reasons.


I wonder how many of you with your harsh opinions did a single professional gig in the past week for more than 100 people present?
Message: Posted by: Doc Eason (May 22, 2010 01:09PM)
Liar??? holy cow.. someone is taking this way too seriously..

SWNerdnase nails it and rather than retype his post.. I agree with his perceptions, for the most part. It could be argued that JAP, JC and SC were tied for first place. MA was wonderfully glib, good engagement, as noted. I like MA but the choice of material left me scratching my head.. to close with the 'stupidest trick in the world" ... well...

To stand behind a fence and holler over that someone is a LIAR? that is overly harsh in my book.

well, I am reminded why I don't spend much time over here...

It was a great week for magic.period.

over an d out.

Have fun guys...cya.
Message: Posted by: Mb217 (May 22, 2010 01:11PM)
You got a point there Frank. I thought it was a bit harsh myself. These guys are all accomplished magicians and they get ragged like this. Imagine how when the same group of mostly lesser-men as you mention, jump on the even smaller guys among us that put forth real effort. Definitely a big reason to do YOU and take all the oppinion with a grain of salt.
Message: Posted by: Paul Rathbun (May 22, 2010 01:13PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-22 13:12, gaffed wrote:
Does anyone by chance have some link to the Michael Ammar performance?
Video's of the other performances where up and about the following day but I can't for the life of me find one for MA's performance.
[/quote]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsiyM489QL0
Message: Posted by: kcg5 (May 22, 2010 01:16PM)
I thought Michael was great. I recent;y saw him lecture, where he did all the stuff he did on the show, and it was as great then as it was on tv. The was a reason they saved him till friday
Message: Posted by: yangju (May 22, 2010 01:18PM)
Dave before Ammar's appearance "... All day long, our switchboards have been jammed. People begging us to extend another week. We are doing what we can."

I wonder if that is a joke or he really meant it? :)
Message: Posted by: cairo (May 22, 2010 01:36PM)
It was a joke, the show was taped Monday before even a single magician show was broadcast.
Message: Posted by: Salby (May 22, 2010 01:48PM)
.
MY PICK FOR THE NEXT CLOSE-UP MAGIC WEEK.....................



- David Williamson
- Bill Malone
- Michael Finney
- Gregory Wilson
- Jay Sankey



Why?? I feel these guys will "Play with David" the best while utilizing a high dose of Magical Comedy. These 5 guys use their comedy like it's second nature the best and won't make either side uncomfortable and just have some good clean late-night magical fun!!!!

-------

As a Side Note... I would love to see GAZZO (Not as close-up magic) and how he "plays with David". It would be hilarious!!!
.
Message: Posted by: cairo (May 22, 2010 01:52PM)
Kcg they didn't "save" Ammar for Friday because he was better or worse than anyone else. Letterman tapes two shows on Monday, one is saved for Friday. The schedule was set before any taping as it is each week. Ammar taped that day because he started his European tour the next day and could make the show any day but Monday. Great week for magic.
Message: Posted by: gaffed (May 22, 2010 02:01PM)
I’ll have to echo a few thoughts already put forth here.

It’s simply amazing! We now seem to have everything from people claiming that a magician is a liar, giving feeble excuses, a magician simply hawking his effects all the way to; “……but I couldn't have done any worse!” WOW!! :rolleyes:
Message: Posted by: inidyls (May 22, 2010 02:56PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-22 14:09, doceason wrote:
Liar??? holy cow.. someone is taking this way too seriously..

SWNerdnase nails it and rather than retype his post.. I agree with his perceptions, for the most part. It could be argued that JAP, JC and SC were tied for first place. MA was wonderfully glib, good engagement, as noted. I like MA but the choice of material left me scratching my head.. to close with the 'stupidest trick in the world" ... well...

To stand behind a fence and holler over that someone is a LIAR? that is overly harsh in my book.

well, I am reminded why I don't spend much time over here...

It was a great week for magic.period.

over an d out.

Have fun guys...cya.
[/quote]

YOU GUYS NEED A LIFE!!!!!!
I was being SARCASTIC.
This whole thread is idiotic. Do you magicians really think any layperson in their right mind turn on David Letterman to watch magic? Or remembered what magician they liked? The reason there is magic week or stupid tricks/animal tricks or any other form of entertainment is a FILL IN. They tune in to watch an interview.
The sarcastic comment was a joke between half of you magi's saying John Carney said you can't tell the directors anything or your out , it's there way or the highway. Then the other half of the magi's said Steve told the David Letterman crew he wanted no overhead shot yada yada yada.
WHO F in CARES!!!!!!!
No wonder actors, comedians, broadway think magic is not an ART FORM and put us in the same class as clowns.
How many laypeople do you think KNOW or REMEMBER who Dai Vernon was.
You can be the greatest technical magician in the world but with no presentation you are nothing.
Go out next week and ask any person on the street that watched DL during magic week and ask them who was there favorite magician and what was his name. There reply will be oh the guy with live chicks under the cup not sure what else he did but that was cool o but I caught a glimpse of the orange he put under the cup. Before you tell me that was two different magicians...NO SHeeT but the person watching doesn't know.

OK you want HARSH. Criss Angel will always be more famous than you, me , John Carney, and God of magic himself DAI VERNON. Get a grip, it's only magic.
OH he said that , well he said that and she said.... , welcome to second grade.


"To stand behind a fence and holler over that someone is a LIAR? that is overly harsh in my book.

well, I am reminded why I don't spend much time over here... " All I have to say is bring back the Magic Circle Jerk!!!!!!!


"It was a great week for magic.period" For who? You?
If close up was so great they would have a show on close up every week.
Close up is a fill in while you wait for your food, in between celebrity guest, drunk patrons at a bar so you drink longer, to fool your co-workers and life of the party.
Ask any full time magician how ruff it is to make a living on magic. Maybe 2% make a good living. Why do you think that is. Because the client is weighing there option if they want the magician, clown, face painter, comic, story teller, pony rides, motivational speaker.

And DOC - aren't you the one who said awhile back that said don't expect to make a great living in magic unless your spouse is the money maker. Do it because you love it. There's no real money in magic.
Message: Posted by: paynow (May 22, 2010 03:03PM)
[quote]

No wonder actors, comedians, broadway think magic is not an ART FORM and put us in the same class as clowns.

[/quote]

Really? While I'm an amateur hobbyist as a magician I'm a member of both SAG and Equity. I look at magic as an art form and don't look at magicians as "clowns".
Message: Posted by: inidyls (May 22, 2010 03:24PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-22 16:03, paynow wrote:
[quote]

No wonder actors, comedians, broadway think magic is not an ART FORM and put us in the same class as clowns.

[/quote]

Really? While I'm an amateur hobbyist as a magician I'm a member of both SAG and Equity. I look at magic as an art form and don't look at magicians as "clowns".
[/quote]

Just quoting Ricky Jay, Bob fitch, Will Farrell
Maybe you heard of them
Message: Posted by: Gazzo (May 22, 2010 04:20PM)
YOU GUYS NEED A LIFE!!!!!!
I was being SARCASTIC.
This whole thread is idiotic. Do you magicians really think any layperson in their right mind turn on David Letterman to watch magic? Or remembered what magician they liked? The reason there is magic week or stupid tricks/animal tricks or any other form of entertainment is a FILL IN. They tune in to watch an interview.
The sarcastic comment was a joke between half of you magi's saying John Carney said you can't tell the directors anything or your out , it's there way or the highway. Then the other half of the magi's said Steve told the David Letterman crew he wanted no overhead shot yada yada yada.
WHO F in CARES!!!!!!!
No wonder actors, comedians, broadway think magic is not an ART FORM and put us in the same class as clowns.
How many laypeople do you think KNOW or REMEMBER who Dai Vernon was.
You can be the greatest technical magician in the world but with no presentation you are nothing.
Go out next week and ask any person on the street that watched DL during magic week and ask them who was there favorite magician and what was his name. There reply will be oh the guy with live chicks under the cup not sure what else he did but that was cool o but I caught a glimpse of the orange he put under the cup. Before you tell me that was two different magicians...NO SHeeT but the person watching doesn't know.

OK you want HARSH. Criss Angel will always be more famous than you, me , John Carney, and God of magic himself DAI VERNON. Get a grip, it's only magic.
OH he said that , well he said that and she said.... , welcome to second grade.


"To stand behind a fence and holler over that someone is a LIAR? that is overly harsh in my book.

well, I am reminded why I don't spend much time over here... " All I have to say is bring back the Magic Circle Jerk!!!!!!!


"It was a great week for magic.period" For who? You?
If close up was so great they would have a show on close up every week.
Close up is a fill in while you wait for your food, in between celebrity guest, drunk patrons at a bar so you drink longer, to fool your co-workers and life of the party.
Ask any full time magician how ruff it is to make a living on magic. Maybe 2% make a good living. Why do you think that is. Because the client is weighing there option if they want the magician, clown, face painter, comic, story teller, pony rides, motivational speaker.

And DOC - aren't you the one who said awhile back that said don't expect to make a great living in magic unless your spouse is the money maker. Do it because you love it. There's no real money in magic.
[/quote]
YES YES YES who ever you are. I AGREE with this 100%.
Message: Posted by: Cameron Francis (May 22, 2010 06:04PM)
I'm an actor, too. Most other actors do not think of magicians as clowns. A lot of actors I know are fascinated by magic and a very interested in it as an art form.

I think everyone did a very nice job this week. If I were doing it, I would do exactly the type of stuff Ammar did: practical material with good angles that can be done almost anywhere. It's the safest bet for a venue like that where you are working in a limited space and don't have much control over angles. Plus, the effects were simple, direct and fun.

I really enjoyed Ammar. I love the "penetration and vanish" set up. Gave Letterman a couple of nice Jack Benny moments and a couple of funny lines.

BTW, just for the record, Letterman treats everyone the same way. I don't think he was hard on these guys at all. He was just being Letterman. Which is what people want to see when they watch Letterman. They like seeing him taking jabs at guests. And they were harmless jabs.

Fun stuff this week.
Message: Posted by: paynow (May 22, 2010 06:28PM)
[quote]
Just quoting Ricky Jay, Bob fitch, Will Farrell
Maybe you heard of them
[/quote]

Yeah....I've heard of them.....don't need your sarcasm...I could care less what Will Ferrell, who I love as a comedian, thinks of magicians. Ricky Jay and Bob Fitch...OK...so? It's not "quoting" to say something that is a broad sweeping generalization and attribute it, with no proof, to three different people when someone calls you on your generalization.

Orson Welles was an ACTOR who loved magic as was Bill Bixby who was a magician.
Message: Posted by: Doc Eason (May 22, 2010 06:41PM)
See what I mean... whew...

I said it was good for magic.. not for me or anyone specifically.. why the attack.. YOU were the one who called him a liar.. sorry if I missed the "sarcasm".

It was fun here for awhile .. why does it always descend into this..

Later.
Message: Posted by: Gazzo (May 22, 2010 07:01PM)
[quote]
.

It was fun here for awhile .. why does it always descend into this..

Later.
[/quote]

Doc.
Because some people (closet magicians) just don't get it, and they never will
G.
Message: Posted by: Doc Eason (May 22, 2010 07:08PM)
Yah I guess you are right G.. I musta missed the sarcasm (?) ...

for the record I don't know where you got that...I don't remember ever saying that.. and btw my money maker and I have been divorced for more than ten years.. so that for sure doesn't hold any water.

the guy behind the fence (and behind a screen name) continues to toss angry stuff over the fence.. why?

I have to go to work now.. see you guys around. get a job and a life..

tired of wrestling with pigs again.. doesn't take long.
Message: Posted by: inidyls (May 22, 2010 07:10PM)
Where did I say Quoting Cameron here " Most other actors do not think of magicians as clowns"
So thanks for scrambling my words Cameron and paynow.
I don't think magicians as clowns either.
See what I mean Doceason. Everybody has there own view , it doesn't matter cause all you fellows just scramble words together. And Doc there was no attack. You would be the last person I would attack.
I only stated people in general put us in the same category as clowns and I'm not saying that's a bad thing. And if you think any true actor or actress think we are in the same class as them as our trade being an art form your crazy.

Paynow wrote " Orson Welles was an ACTOR who loved magic as was Bill Bixby who was a magician."
Whats your point?

Sorry the truth hurts.
Message: Posted by: arizona (May 22, 2010 07:10PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-22 17:20, Gazzo wrote:
YOU GUYS NEED A LIFE!!!!!!
I was being SARCASTIC.
This whole thread is idiotic. Do you magicians really think any layperson in their right mind turn on David Letterman to watch magic? Or remembered what magician they liked? The reason there is magic week or stupid tricks/animal tricks or any other form of entertainment is a FILL IN. They tune in to watch an interview.
The sarcastic comment was a joke between half of you magi's saying John Carney said you can't tell the directors anything or your out , it's there way or the highway. Then the other half of the magi's said Steve told the David Letterman crew he wanted no overhead shot yada yada yada.
WHO F in CARES!!!!!!!
No wonder actors, comedians, broadway think magic is not an ART FORM and put us in the same class as clowns.
How many laypeople do you think KNOW or REMEMBER who Dai Vernon was.
You can be the greatest technical magician in the world but with no presentation you are nothing.
Go out next week and ask any person on the street that watched DL during magic week and ask them who was there favorite magician and what was his name. There reply will be oh the guy with live chicks under the cup not sure what else he did but that was cool o but I caught a glimpse of the orange he put under the cup. Before you tell me that was two different magicians...NO SHeeT but the person watching doesn't know.

OK you want HARSH. Criss Angel will always be more famous than you, me , John Carney, and God of magic himself DAI VERNON. Get a grip, it's only magic.
OH he said that , well he said that and she said.... , welcome to second grade.


"To stand behind a fence and holler over that someone is a LIAR? that is overly harsh in my book.

well, I am reminded why I don't spend much time over here... " All I have to say is bring back the Magic Circle Jerk!!!!!!!


"It was a great week for magic.period" For who? You?
If close up was so great they would have a show on close up every week.
Close up is a fill in while you wait for your food, in between celebrity guest, drunk patrons at a bar so you drink longer, to fool your co-workers and life of the party.
Ask any full time magician how ruff it is to make a living on magic. Maybe 2% make a good living. Why do you think that is. Because the client is weighing there option if they want the magician, clown, face painter, comic, story teller, pony rides, motivational speaker.

And DOC - aren't you the one who said awhile back that said don't expect to make a great living in magic unless your spouse is the money maker. Do it because you love it. There's no real money in magic.
[/quote]
YES YES YES who ever you are. I AGREE with this 100%.
[/quote]

LOL weren't we below or above the mimes in the Performing arts heiarchy. Dang this is probably looked at like mimes discussing public performances that goes on for ten pages.
Message: Posted by: inidyls (May 22, 2010 07:11PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-22 20:10, arizona wrote:
[quote]
On 2010-05-22 17:20, Gazzo wrote:
YOU GUYS NEED A LIFE!!!!!!
I was being SARCASTIC.
This whole thread is idiotic. Do you magicians really think any layperson in their right mind turn on David Letterman to watch magic? Or remembered what magician they liked? The reason there is magic week or stupid tricks/animal tricks or any other form of entertainment is a FILL IN. They tune in to watch an interview.
The sarcastic comment was a joke between half of you magi's saying John Carney said you can't tell the directors anything or your out , it's there way or the highway. Then the other half of the magi's said Steve told the David Letterman crew he wanted no overhead shot yada yada yada.
WHO F in CARES!!!!!!!
No wonder actors, comedians, broadway think magic is not an ART FORM and put us in the same class as clowns.
How many laypeople do you think KNOW or REMEMBER who Dai Vernon was.
You can be the greatest technical magician in the world but with no presentation you are nothing.
Go out next week and ask any person on the street that watched DL during magic week and ask them who was there favorite magician and what was his name. There reply will be oh the guy with live chicks under the cup not sure what else he did but that was cool o but I caught a glimpse of the orange he put under the cup. Before you tell me that was two different magicians...NO SHeeT but the person watching doesn't know.

OK you want HARSH. Criss Angel will always be more famous than you, me , John Carney, and God of magic himself DAI VERNON. Get a grip, it's only magic.
OH he said that , well he said that and she said.... , welcome to second grade.


"To stand behind a fence and holler over that someone is a LIAR? that is overly harsh in my book.

well, I am reminded why I don't spend much time over here... " All I have to say is bring back the Magic Circle Jerk!!!!!!!


"It was a great week for magic.period" For who? You?
If close up was so great they would have a show on close up every week.
Close up is a fill in while you wait for your food, in between celebrity guest, drunk patrons at a bar so you drink longer, to fool your co-workers and life of the party.
Ask any full time magician how ruff it is to make a living on magic. Maybe 2% make a good living. Why do you think that is. Because the client is weighing there option if they want the magician, clown, face painter, comic, story teller, pony rides, motivational speaker.

And DOC - aren't you the one who said awhile back that said don't expect to make a great living in magic unless your spouse is the money maker. Do it because you love it. There's no real money in magic.
[/quote]
YES YES YES who ever you are. I AGREE with this 100%.
[/quote]

LOL weren't we below or above the mimes in the Performing arts heiarchy. Dang this is probably looked at like mimes discussing public performances that goes on for ten pages.
[/quote]

LOL
Message: Posted by: Doc Eason (May 22, 2010 07:29PM)
That's not the quote I was talking about.. the quote was

And DOC - aren't you the one who said awhile back that said don't expect to make a great living in magic unless your spouse is the money maker. Do it because you love it. There's no real money in magic.

that is the quote I was taking umbrage with. I don't remember ever saying that.. and my money maker isn't in the picture anymore.. so it doesn't carry anywater whatsoever anyway.
and if you recall, you were the one who used the term 'Liar'. sure didn't see the the sarcasm there...I just heard the word...

one must choose one's words carefully esp when using sarcasm.
Message: Posted by: Futureal (May 22, 2010 08:25PM)
Getting back on topic - Ammar was brilliant. It's rare for Letterman to REALLY laugh like he did at the little hand trick, he thought it was hilarious.

Ammar has had the most experience with TV stuff with his appearances on Carson etc, it really showed.

Brilliant.
Message: Posted by: inidyls (May 22, 2010 08:52PM)
Well Doc you told me that personally a few years ago at a festival. But don't worry I won't call you a liar. (that was sarcasm again) You seemed like a very nice fellow so I'll leave it there.
I do not want to get into the you said he said. This was the whole point of my post. Now you people suckered me into it.
And don't worry I'll make you happy. I will be away from the Café for a while heading to Japan. This will be the last thing on my mine.
Now lets get back on topic.

Michael Ammar was great like usual.
Message: Posted by: spcarlson (May 22, 2010 09:46PM)
Congratulations to all the close-up artists on Letterman this week, you all did a great job and made an excellent showing for close-up magic!

Someone suggested sending a positive email to the show regarding the week of close-up magic I think that’s a great idea; hopefully they’ll make this a regular thing.
Message: Posted by: MattSchick (May 22, 2010 10:27PM)
I really enjoyed watching all of the magicians on magic week. While performing at a town festival today, a man who I had just performed for told me he watched Letterman all week and enjoyed the magicians. When I asked him what his favorite trick was, he responded "The little hand grabbing the coin." I enjoyed the latter four performers for all different reasons but I have to agree that Ammar was, by far, the most likable and down to earth.

Despite many of Letterman's belittling comments toward magic throughout the week, I think that he genuinely enjoyed the performances and I hope that he decides to bring magic week back sometime in the near future.

-Matt
Message: Posted by: Adammcd (May 22, 2010 11:42PM)
Yes, I stated that JAPAlmer seemed to talk down to the audience so I went back and watched it again and again and that is still my impression. And perhaps he did not address the audience directly but he was on TV in fron of millions of people. The magic was great and I also stated that. I didn't like the guys style and found it condescending a little. At the end of the day I thought it was a great week for magic and am very sorry to see it end.

Adam
Message: Posted by: SeanScottMagic (May 23, 2010 04:48AM)
I think Letterman is a rough ride, whether he likes you before the fact or not. It's about the host and you have to be able to spar with him a bit. I honestly was a little curious why the magi didn't have their guns loaded a little more. Carney did the best at that I felt. But, easy for me to say.....

A rough ride as I said. The orientation the performers had wasn't very accomodating. Their chair faced very straight forward and they were all kind of doing the "twist". Camera angle was harsh as we all know. The show could have given them a more favorable arrangement.

With that said, hats off to all of them. I couldn't do it. A lot of pressure and they all came through. Bravo!

Sean
Message: Posted by: tmoca (May 23, 2010 06:53AM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-22 03:21, tophatter wrote:
Okay Don't get all over me here I think Ammar is Awesome but I feel he choose these effects for one reason To sell them at his lectures . Like I said Don't get all over me for saying this but he should have performed his signature effects . I have to say he comes in last very disapointed !!
[/quote]

Quite possible....and if that IS the case, the man is my hero....HERD THE SHEEP!!! LOL.

I Hope he sells a million little hands and scarves!

I thought Ammar did great! The best of the week. He was the ONLY magician that actually sat like a guest should and in my opinion the only one that didn't look like his "patter" wasn't interrupted when Dave interjected. Very natural and confident.

I think he chose a good effects to perform, quick, visual and to the point. That is where the others FAILED, that is why they looked uncomfortable. Magic for Letterman...(IMO) has to be quick and to the point or you will get caught up in Dave's banter.
Message: Posted by: Ken Northridge (May 23, 2010 07:30AM)
I found it interesting that all of Ammar’s effects were from his current lecture, a lecture in which I would say was the best, most practical lecture I ever saw (lots of fun too).

The silk through mug has been talked about here and in his lecture he informed us about a r**l that is quieter and makes doing this close up possible. He said they are hard to find and certainly did not have any for sale. Does anyone know the name of the r**l and where I might find one? Kikuchi maybe?

I can’t see this week as being anything except [b]great[/b] for magic.
Message: Posted by: Bill Beach (May 23, 2010 07:49AM)
Here's a link to the r**l - http://store.ammarmagic.com/the-best-swedish-reel.html

He obviously has them for sale now.

I'm a big Michael Ammar fan, too, but it IS interesting that he has a page on his website already featuring products from his Letterman appearance - not that there's anything wrong with that!
Message: Posted by: Ken Northridge (May 23, 2010 08:24AM)
Thanks Bill.

It may be a smart thing that Ammar is doing. Heck, I'm going to give him $150 today because of his set selection!
Message: Posted by: jazzy snazzy (May 23, 2010 08:41AM)
Brilliant marketing and a nice opportunity for those who like to perfom things that have been seen on national TV recently.
Message: Posted by: thehawk (May 23, 2010 09:02AM)
Silk through mug was excellant.
Message: Posted by: epoptika (May 23, 2010 10:15AM)
I think Letterman enjoyed "the stupidest thing he ever saw" more than anything done all week which, in my opinion, made it a very successful bit. It was very entertaining - magical or not.
Message: Posted by: arizona (May 23, 2010 10:30AM)
Interesting with the doll hand. I saw that in MAGIC I believe, and thought corny and obvious hardly magical at all. Sometimes I wish I was a laymen still.
Message: Posted by: Powermagic (May 23, 2010 10:55AM)
Why break the cardinal rule of magic and repeat the same trick twice? Even Ammar said something like "Not that you asked, I will do it again" The second time the audience reaction was much less and it drew more attention to the scarf that he pointed out could not be examined. Also I heard "talking" that I did not hear the first time.

Why END with a gag? Did I miss something? He never showed his hands empty so it was a cute gag. He should have started or done that one second. The audience enjoyed the comedy but Letterman's word choice was probably because Ammar did not finish the effect by showing his hands empty. Heck, if he can vanish his phone he could have worked that out.

The only credit I will give him is for trying to use something modern. I do not know what he was thinking with the take a picture thing and then have just a nothing of a photo but at least that is the effect people remember him doing.

To hear Aston and Dave bring up the scarf again when, supports that he brought too much focus to the scarf by repeating it. They might know how he did it but they knew something was up.
Message: Posted by: magicfish (May 23, 2010 04:43PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-22 15:56, inidyls wrote:
[quote]
On 2010-05-22 14:09, doceason wrote:
Liar??? holy cow.. someone is taking this way too seriously..

SWNerdnase nails it and rather than retype his post.. I agree with his perceptions, for the most part. It could be argued that JAP, JC and SC were tied for first place. MA was wonderfully glib, good engagement, as noted. I like MA but the choice of material left me scratching my head.. to close with the 'stupidest trick in the world" ... well...

To stand behind a fence and holler over that someone is a LIAR? that is overly harsh in my book.

well, I am reminded why I don't spend much time over here...

It was a great week for magic.period.

over an d out.

Have fun guys...cya.
[/quote]

YOU GUYS NEED A LIFE!!!!!!
I was being SARCASTIC.
This whole thread is idiotic. Do you magicians really think any layperson in their right mind turn on David Letterman to watch magic? Or remembered what magician they liked? The reason there is magic week or stupid tricks/animal tricks or any other form of entertainment is a FILL IN. They tune in to watch an interview.
The sarcastic comment was a joke between half of you magi's saying John Carney said you can't tell the directors anything or your out , it's there way or the highway. Then the other half of the magi's said Steve told the David Letterman crew he wanted no overhead shot yada yada yada.
WHO F in CARES!!!!!!!
No wonder actors, comedians, broadway think magic is not an ART FORM and put us in the same class as clowns.
How many laypeople do you think KNOW or REMEMBER who Dai Vernon was.
You can be the greatest technical magician in the world but with no presentation you are nothing.
Go out next week and ask any person on the street that watched DL during magic week and ask them who was there favorite magician and what was his name. There reply will be oh the guy with live chicks under the cup not sure what else he did but that was cool o but I caught a glimpse of the orange he put under the cup. Before you tell me that was two different magicians...NO SHeeT but the person watching doesn't know.

OK you want HARSH. Criss Angel will always be more famous than you, me , John Carney, and God of magic himself DAI VERNON. Get a grip, it's only magic.
OH he said that , well he said that and she said.... , welcome to second grade.


"To stand behind a fence and holler over that someone is a LIAR? that is overly harsh in my book.

well, I am reminded why I don't spend much time over here... " All I have to say is bring back the Magic Circle Jerk!!!!!!!


"It was a great week for magic.period" For who? You?
If close up was so great they would have a show on close up every week.
Close up is a fill in while you wait for your food, in between celebrity guest, drunk patrons at a bar so you drink longer, to fool your co-workers and life of the party.
Ask any full time magician how ruff it is to make a living on magic. Maybe 2% make a good living. Why do you think that is. Because the client is weighing there option if they want the magician, clown, face painter, comic, story teller, pony rides, motivational speaker.

And DOC - aren't you the one who said awhile back that said don't expect to make a great living in magic unless your spouse is the money maker. Do it because you love it. There's no real money in magic.
[/quote]

Thanks to people like you.

Sincerely, Rodney
Message: Posted by: Ken Northridge (May 23, 2010 05:27PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-23 11:55, Powermagic wrote:
Why END with a gag? Did I miss something? He never showed his hands empty so it was a cute gag. He should have started or done that one second. The audience enjoyed the comedy but Letterman's word choice was probably because Ammar did not finish the effect by showing his hands empty. Heck, if he can vanish his phone he could have worked that out.
[/quote]

Because the audience LOVED it!!! Not every trick has to be a mind boggling, amazing miracle. The overall experience of Ammar’s performance was a fun, interesting and extremely entertaining. That’s it! It worked! He chose the perfect set.

PS: Gazzo, Will you post to the Café more often? You are a breath of fresh air!

PPS: My r**l is on the way!
Message: Posted by: Xpilot (May 23, 2010 05:49PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-23 09:41, jazzy snazzy wrote:
Brilliant marketing and a nice opportunity for those who like to perfom things that have been seen on national TV recently.
[/quote]

And what self-respecting magician doesn't want the opportunity to perform things that a good portion of their audience has likely seen someone else do recently?
Message: Posted by: Gazzo (May 23, 2010 06:18PM)
LOOK GUYS THIS WAS NOT MY POST ORIGINALLY
ALL I SAID WAS THAT I AGREED WITH IT 100%
STILL DO

YOU GUYS NEED A LIFE!!!!!!
I was being SARCASTIC.
This whole thread is idiotic. Do you magicians really think any layperson in their right mind turn on David Letterman to watch magic? Or remembered what magician they liked? The reason there is magic week or stupid tricks/animal tricks or any other form of entertainment is a FILL IN. They tune in to watch an interview.
The sarcastic comment was a joke between half of you magi's saying John Carney said you can't tell the directors anything or your out , it's there way or the highway. Then the other half of the magi's said Steve told the David Letterman crew he wanted no overhead shot yada yada yada.
WHO F in CARES!!!!!!!
No wonder actors, comedians, broadway think magic is not an ART FORM and put us in the same class as clowns.
How many laypeople do you think KNOW or REMEMBER who Dai Vernon was.
You can be the greatest technical magician in the world but with no presentation you are nothing.
Go out next week and ask any person on the street that watched DL during magic week and ask them who was there favorite magician and what was his name. There reply will be oh the guy with live chicks under the cup not sure what else he did but that was cool o but I caught a glimpse of the orange he put under the cup. Before you tell me that was two different magicians...NO SHeeT but the person watching doesn't know.

OK you want HARSH. Criss Angel will always be more famous than you, me , John Carney, and God of magic himself DAI VERNON. Get a grip, it's only magic.
OH he said that , well he said that and she said.... , welcome to second grade.


AGAIN NOT MY POST JUST A BAD ATTEMPT TO TRY AND CUT AND PASTE
STILL NOT SURE HOW OR WHICH BUTTON TO HIT
Message: Posted by: Gazzo (May 23, 2010 06:31PM)
Go to Page 11
scroll down past seven posts
you come to a post by Inidyis
not sure who this man is
but I really enjoyed the read
I tried to hit the quote button
and paste it
now everyone thinks I wrote it
Message: Posted by: David Todd (May 23, 2010 06:32PM)
A few less than perfect moments perhaps, but overall a great week for magic to be featured on television. Not sure about the source of some of the acrimony and armchair quarterbacking that is being displayed in this thread. This whole week was a "win" for magic, imo.

Everyone seems to be weighing in with their "reviews" , so here I go with my .02 cents (even though I'm unworthy to tie any of these guy's shoes) ---


Ammar was great , but omigosh the line about [i]"Tonight I've planned to do two Penetrations and two Vanishes"[/i] was [b]very awkward [/b]. And then he repeated it when he pulled out the balloon! -- [i]"Now for this next Penetration ..."[/i] :huh: (more awkwardness.)

I thought that was an odd way to introduce the effects. It's sort of like he forgot he wasn't at a magic club meeting giving a lecture, so he fell into using magician's lingo (i.e. "Penetrations", "Vanishes" , "Productions", "Restoration" , etc. straight out of Fitzkee ) .

That was about the only rough spot in Ammar's set that maybe betrayed a hint of nervousness on his part . Otherwise he certainly looked like he was having the most fun of all the performers who appeared during Close-Up Magic Week. His choice of material worked really well given the camera angle restrictions of the performing conditions. Although I was a bit surprised he choose to do Pressure. That one has unfortunately been widely exposed on a certain video sharing site (rhymes with Loo-Rube) by the teenage "magic tutorial" geeks.

If I had to vote for my favorite magician of the week then I would vote for Steve Cohen, but I enjoyed seeing all of the performers. Johnny Ace Palmer: very smooth with his classic effects , totally fried Dave with the chicks. Very nice. Steve Cohen was sophisticated , cool , and presented a real head-scratcher. I loved how Cohen immediately asserted his dominance over the performance area, totally in control of the situation. John Carney was wonderful with technically demanding material , bad camera angles notwithstanding. Jason Randal , as others have pointed out , not in the same league as the others, was perhaps a bit nervous in the starting place for the week , but the audience seemed to like him a lot, even if his choice of material didn't make magicians swoon . (*Note to self: have a duplicate ungimmicked sleeve made up which can be switched in and handed-out for examination.)
Message: Posted by: jazzy snazzy (May 23, 2010 06:39PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-23 18:49, Xpilot wrote:
[quote]
On 2010-05-23 09:41, jazzy snazzy wrote:
Brilliant marketing and a nice opportunity for those who like to perfom things that have been seen on national TV recently.
[/quote]



And what self-respecting magician doesn't want the opportunity to perform things that a good portion of their audience has likely seen someone else do recently?
[/quote]

Well, I just prefer more of a surprise factor. Either change it up or retire it for a while. Not pleasant when someone says; "Oh yeah I saw 'so-and-so' do that on TV last week".
Message: Posted by: gaffed (May 23, 2010 08:20PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-23 19:31, Gazzo wrote:
Go to Page 11
scroll down past seven posts
you come to a post by Inidyis
not sure who this man is
but I really enjoyed the read
I tried to hit the quote button
and paste it
now everyone thinks I wrote it
[/quote]

No need to copy and paste! Simply click on the Quote icon and then post any thing you wish [b]AFTER[/b] this: [b][/quote][/b] It happens. Believe me, I know, as I run and own a forum site for some years now although not magic related.
Message: Posted by: Gazzo (May 23, 2010 08:26PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-23 21:20, gaffed wrote:
[quote]
On 2010-05-23 19:31, Gazzo wrote:
Go to Page 11
scroll down past seven posts
you come to a post by Inidyis
not sure who this man is
but I really enjoyed the read
I tried to hit the quote button
and paste it
now everyone thinks I wrote it
[/quote]
You mean something like this.
Thanks.
Gazzo

No need to copy and paste! Simply click on the Quote icon and then post any thing you wish [b]AFTER[/b] this: [b][/quote][/b]
[/quote]
Or this one
G.
Message: Posted by: Gazzo (May 23, 2010 08:30PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-23 21:26, Gazzo wrote:
[quote]
On 2010-05-23 21:20, gaffed wrote:
[quote]
On 2010-05-23 19:31, Gazzo wrote:
Go to Page 11
scroll down past seven posts
you come to a post by Inidyis
not sure who this man is
but I really enjoyed the read
I tried to hit the quote button
and paste it
now everyone thinks I wrote it
[/quote]
You mean something like this.
Thanks.
Gazzo

No need to copy and paste! Simply click on the Quote icon and then post any thing you wish [b]AFTER[/b] this: [b][/quote][/b]
[/quote]
Or this one
G.
[/quote]
Not working for me
Thanks though
G.
Message: Posted by: gaffed (May 23, 2010 08:39PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-23 19:32, David Todd wrote:
(*Note to self: have a duplicate ungimmicked sleeve made up which can be switched in and handed-out for examination.)
[/quote]

I've been handling it that way since "WOW" came out. An un-gimmicked sleeve has been available for it shortly after "WOW" was released. Great effect IF handled properly and some justification is given as to why the sleeve is used and then.....switched out for the un-gimmicked one. I use a Mullica wallet.

Sorry, that's getting bit off thread and I have some comments on the cell phone in the balloon trick by Michael Ammar, but perhaps later.
Message: Posted by: Doc Eason (May 23, 2010 10:41PM)
Further note to self... do not put one's laptop on the Masuda Wow sleeve. hello shrinky dink?

The answer to "can you do this without the sleeve?" is now "I guess I am gonna have to!" arrrgh.

I have never presented it to an audience and I guess I won't now until I come across another one...
Message: Posted by: Doc Eason (May 24, 2010 12:08AM)
Ooops...sorry ... meant to post this to a different thread...
Message: Posted by: ricardo carpenter (May 24, 2010 07:11AM)
The penetrations line by Ammar was very good. It hooked Letterman.
Remember his apologizes about some sex affair?
So the magician is connected to the world, to the people.
Message: Posted by: magicfish (May 24, 2010 07:26AM)
No money in magic? At one point David Copperfield was the highest paid ENTERTAINER on earth. Lance Burton perfected a dove act and made one hundred million dollars. Criss Angel... well, nevermind, but ummmmm yes... There's money in magic. Oh and Ammar?.... Rich.
Message: Posted by: markmiller (May 24, 2010 11:15AM)
There are exceptions to every rule. The vast majority of magicians on earth are not in the DC, LB, or CA category. Magicfush exactly how many millions are you worth today as the result of your work in magic?
Message: Posted by: Keith Runion (May 24, 2010 01:39PM)
Just a thought on the little hand...not my style but a lord of the rings theme would fit this pretty well vanish a ring you would need to find a hand that looks like gollum's
Message: Posted by: mrehula (May 24, 2010 03:59PM)
My six year old son and I played Ammar's 'coin vanish' over and over and over, giggling just as much the 30th time as we did the first time. It may be a 'stupid' trick, but his timing was perfect (within the trick as well as within his presentation). No better way to end close-up magic week on Letterman.
Message: Posted by: gaffed (May 24, 2010 05:42PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-24 12:15, markmiller wrote:
There are exceptions to every rule. The vast majority of magicians on earth are not in the DC, LB, or CA category. Magicfush exactly how many millions are you worth today as the result of your work in magic?
[/quote]

Well I'm certainly not among the rich! I had to stop changing one's onto fifties with Extreme Burn and only have them turn into fives! lol
Message: Posted by: Xpilot (May 24, 2010 06:10PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-24 12:15, markmiller wrote:
There are exceptions to every rule. The vast majority of magicians on earth are not in the DC, LB, or CA category. Magicfush exactly how many millions are you worth today as the result of your work in magic?[/quote]

The vast majority of people on earth are not in the DC, LB or CA income bracket. So exactly what profession are you saying that multi-million dollar annual incomes are not the exception?
Message: Posted by: magicfish (May 24, 2010 11:29PM)
My contention was nothing to do with millions, it was witha statement that there was no money in magic. Is 135 thousand per year money? -i say yes. A million? Yes. Seventy thousand per year? For card tricks? Absolutely! Of course there is money in magic. Why? Because its entertainment- show biz. And whether you're a singer, an acrobat, a fire breather, or a dancer, you can be flat broke, filthy rich, or anywhere in between.
Message: Posted by: gaddy (May 24, 2010 11:59PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-23 19:39, jazzy snazzy wrote:
[quote]
On 2010-05-23 18:49, Xpilot wrote:
[quote]
On 2010-05-23 09:41, jazzy snazzy wrote:
Brilliant marketing and a nice opportunity for those who like to perfom things that have been seen on national TV recently.
[/quote]



And what self-respecting magician doesn't want the opportunity to perform things that a good portion of their audience has likely seen someone else do recently?
[/quote]

Well, I just prefer more of a surprise factor. Either change it up or retire it for a while. Not pleasant when someone says; "Oh yeah I saw 'so-and-so' do that on TV last week".
[/quote]


I agree to a certain extent. I'm nervous about using a coconut as a hat load for the next few months.
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (May 25, 2010 01:10AM)
Don't use a coconut.
Message: Posted by: markmiller (May 25, 2010 01:33AM)
...or a hat.
Message: Posted by: jazzy snazzy (May 25, 2010 06:34AM)
Fear not. The collective memory is short. It doesn't take very long before they forget the whole thing. Probably less than 1 in 5 people you encounter have seen this. I wonder how many hits Michael Ammar's website got after the show?

Little Hand won't have the impact that it used to, and silk through microphone will likely draw more scrutiny for some time. But you could always paint Letterman's face on the coconut.
Message: Posted by: Ken Northridge (May 25, 2010 07:45AM)
Another note of interest about the little hand. At his lecture, Michael told us he was performing at one of President Obama’s Inaugural Ball’s, and he thought he might be asked to do something for the first couple. He did not get that opportunity but said if he did he had decided to do the little hand.

I guess when you’re Michael Ammar, you don’t have to prove yourself as a miracle worker, he already did that some 25 years ago.

The thing that impresses me about the silk though mug (chair, microphone stand, etc.) is you can do it over and over again and the audience still has no idea how its done. You can use super slow motion on your video, still, no clue. Now with the super quiet r**l you can do it right under their nose!

I’m not concerned about my image being tarnished by repeating something my audience may have seen on TV, I’m more concerned about giving my audience the most interesting and entertaining experience I possibly can. My audience/clients deserve to see close up miracles such as the silk through mug, regarless of its orginality, skill level, or whether its recently been on late night TV.
Message: Posted by: Powermagic (May 25, 2010 10:16AM)
Ken I heard "Talking" the second time he did it! Maybe something else was talking but something did.
The second time he did not do it as smooth in the setup up. His hands stayed to long trying to get it set. It is not the way you would put a silk through the mug naturally. This one CAN NOT stand up to repeating over and over. I have Ammar on one of his tapes, I think the thread ones, and on super slow you can catch it.


But my point really is that the audience reaction was not stronger by his repeating it was weaker and the applause was forced and it gave more time for Letterman to make comments about it. Do not forget there is an applause sign at these shows (or someone to teach them they have to applaud since it is TV)

Ammar- I thought was a pro. A pro would not just repeat the same trick for the sake of it. He would advance it to look more complex, more impossible than the first time.

Take a routine he does use this concept in- Crazy Man Handcuffs. You NEVER do the penetration twice in the same way. The second time he will tend to make them hold one of the bands. I do this an it always keeps new interest, it is the same method but they are amazed since now one half is spectator controlled.


Just repeating the same effect in the same way was a bit of a downhill since they knew what was coming.
He could have maybe figured out how to do it with his leg or other object and THEN used the mug, a closed loop.

But the way Ammar was holding it, did make Letterman comment. He brought it out to soon. But I guess he did not know Letterman would banter so all Ammar did was play with it drawing too much attention to it.


As for the hand, is it a gag right? People here are still calling it a coin vanish. It was a gag people and while the audience got a kick out of it, there was no magic and thus Letterman's comments.
I would not have ended with it without being able to show both hands empty after. something a pro like him should have figured out.

I am not arguing whether it was entertainment.
I would have ended with the balloon not the hand.
But this was "close up magic week" not "close up comedy week"
Message: Posted by: Andrew Zuber (May 25, 2010 11:14AM)
Ammar is smart. He ended with the hand because, while it may be a "gag," it's one of the last things people will remember when they think back on the week. Some are saying that he's merely doing what he does in his lectures...well that's because we've SEEN his lecture - we know what he does. What difference does it make if he does it in a lecture, or if he's trying to sell a few items in the process? He's making a living just like everyone else. I think his performance had a modern touch...using the iPhone for instance was something we hadn't seen the rest of the week. People give Johnny Ace Palmer a hard time because he did what he's been doing for years, then they're disappointed in Ammar's spot because he DIDN'T do what he's been doing for years.

And for the record, the guy that posted this nonsense:
"OK you want HARSH. Criss Angel will always be more famous than you, me , John Carney, and God of magic himself DAI VERNON. Get a grip, it's only magic.
OH he said that , well he said that and she said.... , welcome to second grade"
...doesn't belong on this forum. His whole post was disgusting. What's he doing posting is a magic forum anyway?
Message: Posted by: ropeadope (May 25, 2010 11:48AM)
Loved `em all! Great for magic. I believe the laymen & Letterman were fooled and entertained by most all of the magicians and effects.

Some say JR looked nervous and could have used more practice and a better selection. I believe also about the selection and practice, but as far as his nervousness is concerned, I`ve seen his other 7 appearances on Letterman`s show and he always looks that way to me, but you have to admit he has a great smile! The other times I believe he was better. But of all 5 entertainers I believe that JR will be the one that will be asked to come back again because Letterman seemed to smile,laugh and enjoy JR more, especially their good nature ribbing. On one of JR`s past performances at the end of his Jumping Gems routine. Letterman asked JR " If I had those little sticks, could I do that?" JR`s response "Yes, but in your hands they`d just be sticks!" After Magic Close up week I believe Letterman may be interested in joining us in our art and may be in fact taking lessons now!

Have fun!

John
Message: Posted by: paynow (May 25, 2010 01:45PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-25 12:48, ropeadope wrote:

After Magic Close up week I believe Letterman may be interested in joining us in our art and may be in fact taking lessons now!

Have fun!

John
[/quote]

Very interesting point. I think if Letterman had taken up magic and become good at it he would have been quite entertaining given his personality.
Message: Posted by: TKO MAGIC (May 25, 2010 04:57PM)
Ok , I was lucky enough to get invited to the Flyers club suite box and after party last night. I was performing for people I never met before. I was fascinated and disturbed by how many people came up to me and asked me if I watched David Letterman the past week (and what I thought of Criss Angel). Of course I replied yes and I asked them what they thought.
The #1 reply by minimum of 15 people said it was all right. I pushed further and asked why just all right? They all said in one way or another it was kind of corny. I asked why do you say that. There reply again I don't know not sure. I was stunned. Then I asked if they watched everynight or just one magician. The majority of the people watched Tues, Wed, Thurs. Nobody for some reason watched Ammar on Friday????????
When I asked out of the three nights who did they like most I don't want to say word by word for good reasons but they were fooled by Johnny Ace Palmer chicks under the cups. They were stumped. I told them that is one of my favorite tricks. Then by surprise every person there (please don't shoot the messenger) did not like Carney's routine. I said really? The majority of the people actually said yeah I seen that orange that guy was trying to hide,two people actually said that guy needs practice. I was stunned when I heard that. Carney is my favorite close up magician. They seen the shock on my face and the one guy said yeah what he did was easy but what that guy did with the live chicks was impossible. Then I asked a few of them about Steve Cohen, for some reason the women enjoyed his trick they all talked about the ring. Some asked me if it was a trick ring lol. But for some reason the guys just said yeah he was good.

I thought I would post this here because there is a lot of talk about what laypeople would notice and like. I found this info amazing. I was also amazed how many people watch Letterman. I must of did walk around for a 100+ at the after party.
If I group all the comments together into one, it wasn't a good week in magic and for this I am very very sad.
Message: Posted by: thehawk (May 25, 2010 05:45PM)
It was a good week for
Flyer fans though.
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mystoffelees (May 26, 2010 07:28AM)
Interesting post TKO. I have to agree- although I thought the guys did a pretty good job, largely there was no "magic", the tricks were the same old boring stuff, and it seemed no one played to the audience- they were too focused on Dave who, of course, made it pretty hard to play to the audience or to the camera...
Message: Posted by: thehawk (May 26, 2010 09:47AM)
Didn't watch all the episodes but the chicks with Johnny "Ace" Palmer and Ammar's silk through cup were great.
Message: Posted by: ralphs007 (May 26, 2010 02:21PM)
Hi
I played the Ammar performance for my wife and daughter, who's 21 years old.I couldn't believe they didn't like the silk through the coffee mug trick! They liked the trick "Pressure". I can't understand how that trick can fool anyone.Especially when it's inflated after the penetration. It looks nothing like it should.
Message: Posted by: The Old Man (May 26, 2010 05:32PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-19 10:58, RiffRaff wrote:
[quote]
On 2010-05-19 10:27, doceason wrote:
Tuesday, the camera man 'screwed the pooch'.
[/quote]

The show is not shown live, it's taped.
The editors and producers select the shots.
The Letterman Show deliberately selected a shot that would expose the trick.
You don't see them using an overhead shot when they have an actress on the couch do you?
...If they did I'd be a loyal viewer.
[/quote]
I am late to this party, but this comment is so off the mark that I have to respond. First it is taped, but it is edited live by the director calling the shots. Unless there's a huge problem there is no editing of camera selection. There wouldn't be time, nor reason. They were not deliberately trying to expose his trick. If so they could easily do this with every performer. Each magician got a lot of support from the production staff.
Message: Posted by: The Old Man (May 26, 2010 05:36PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-19 12:17, paynow wrote:
Dave is Dave; it's a comedy show. He's doing the same stuff Ernie Kovacs and to a lesser extent Steve Allen used to do with performers.
[/quote]
I have no idea if you don't know what you're talking about or you have a faulty memory. Ernie Kovacs had a live comedy skit show like Your Show of Shows. He didn't have performers, he had cast members. In addition Steve Allen never treated guests like Dave Letterman. Letterman is the only talk show host I can think of who has treated a large number of people like ***s.
Message: Posted by: jazzy snazzy (May 26, 2010 05:48PM)
Letterman being equated with Ernie Kovacs and Steve Allen?
Message: Posted by: The Old Man (May 26, 2010 06:05PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-20 03:32, rkosby wrote:
Does the studio audience watch the performance on big screen monitors? It seems to me they would have seen the flash if that's the setup.

[/quote]
No. They are regular studio monitors. Much of the audience can't even see the desk and they really aren't that close. The best view of the stage, from the balcony is really very far from the stage and I don't think you could even see a flashed orange with blinking lights on it from up there.
Message: Posted by: Salby (May 26, 2010 06:11PM)
.
Is Carney's Cups & Balls Routine published anywhere?? I am aware of his FRUITCUP Routine, but this is different where he curls a newspaper around a glass.

I don't see it in Carnycopia.
.
Message: Posted by: RiffRaff (May 26, 2010 06:29PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-26 18:32, The Old Man wrote:
I am late to this party, but this comment is so off the mark that I have to respond. First it is taped, but it is edited live by the director calling the shots. Unless there's a huge problem there is no editing of camera selection. There wouldn't be time, nor reason. They were not deliberately trying to expose his trick. If so they could easily do this with every performer. Each magician got a lot of support from the production staff.
[/quote]

There are five cameras. The one they chose to select was an overhead shot which exposed the orange. I would consider that a huge problem.
The only other conclusion that I can come to is that the director is so incompetent that he did not notice that the shot that he selected flashed the orange.
Message: Posted by: gaffed (May 26, 2010 06:39PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-26 15:21, ralphs007 wrote:
I can't understand how that trick can fool anyone.Especially when it's inflated after the penetration. It looks nothing like it should.
[/quote]

I think you mean DEFLATED. And yes, I really can't see how that could possibly fool anyone for that very fact. Three of my friends and a wife of one were not fooled by it at all. No, none of them has anything to do with magic. As a matter of fact, one of them even went so far as to try it out with a balloon and his iPod and said he managed to do it although it took about three or four tries. I have to admit, although I think MA is a top notch and a very innovative magician, and still do, that balloon trick left me totally cold.
Message: Posted by: The Old Man (May 26, 2010 07:54PM)
Plus, re: the balloon trick, what was all that "I'm going to take a picture from inside a balloon"? We he held it up to camera, after a lot of futzing around, I saw a blank screen.
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (May 26, 2010 08:52PM)
Someone that knows, told me today, the Letterman's RATINGS FOR THE MAGIC WEEK were his biggest in a loooooooooong time.

Bottom line. It was good for magic and word is they would like to do it again.
Message: Posted by: gaffed (May 26, 2010 09:13PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-26 20:54, The Old Man wrote:
Plus, re: the balloon trick, what was all that "I'm going to take a picture from inside a balloon"? We he held it up to camera, after a lot of futzing around, I saw a blank screen.
[/quote]

Well, actually in all fairness to MA, there was indeed a picture albeit the concept, in my honest opinion, was a tad ridiculous. The picture was simply tinted (I forget what color the balloon was) and I think it was totally lost as to the impact that he had intended it to be. I'm just curious as to what others honestly felt about this trick? I immediately knew what it was although I honestly never have seen it before much less performed it. What capped it for me was talking to just a few people who immediately figured it out although they have nothing whatsoever to do with magic! It seems as though it went over quite well with DL and the ensuing applause but.....??
Message: Posted by: Doc Eason (May 26, 2010 09:41PM)
Pressure is a startling effect.. when I first saw it, my eyes popped and I was surprised .. for a couple of seconds ... then it became glaringly obvious what was going on.

The picture from inside the balloon was sorta bogus too. I thought that the pic would have been a faint rendition of Michael .. but shot through two layers of balloon.. the result was just a yellow screen.. not that impressive.

Someone mentioned on a different forum that their 10 year old kid went off to school with a handful of balloons and made everyone's cell penetrate a balloon. I think it is a very transparent trick. It doesn't seem to have any legs.. if ya know what I mean.

Choice of material aside, I think Michael probably scored the highest of the week with audience and DL.. I really felt that the viewing audience got to know him better than any of the other performers.

If you believe the statement, they don't remember what you did, they remember how you made em feel, that certainly was the case with MA. Love it or hate it (and it seems like those are the two camps) the little hand killed that night. I was hoping for stronger material from him but there is no denying the strength of his reception.

I can't imagine that a few more magicians tuning in pushed his Neilson ratings up but glad that it did.
Message: Posted by: arizona (May 26, 2010 11:39PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-26 21:52, Pete Biro wrote:
Someone that knows, told me today, the Letterman's RATINGS FOR THE MAGIC WEEK were his biggest in a loooooooooong time.

Bottom line. It was good for magic and word is they would like to do it again.
[/quote]

If they do it again I think the guests will do what MA did he just sat there and did few effects pretty much like someone asking you to do a trick and you do a quick effect. that's probably the easy way out rather than doing a routine from your show and it allows for interuptions from Dave, the camera or whatever so it doesn't mess with the rythyms of the performers like it did all week long it seemed. I wish I could get a chance to knockem all dead. lol
Message: Posted by: The Old Man (May 26, 2010 11:40PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-26 19:29, RiffRaff wrote:
The only other conclusion that I can come to is that the director is so incompetent that he did not notice that the shot that he selected flashed the orange.
[/quote]
This all took place in less than one second. There was no way for a director to think: Let's see which camera should I call on next--I think I use my overhead--(looking at monitor in control booth)I believe, if I remember he's going to be pulling an orange out next--no it looks OK, "go overhead"--oh, oh, there's that orange, I guess I called it at the wrong time. Let's see, if I quickly change to another camera perhaps I'll be the only one who saw it--"go camera 2"--that's better now if only I remember where that coconut is going to be...

You're kidding right?
Message: Posted by: GJF (May 27, 2010 12:17AM)
I just loved the little hand! Very funny, not magical but so what? Magicians throughout history have been doing stunts and gags along their magic walk. I like to think Letterman will bring back all five in the future and I hope to see the likes of some of our other favorites.
Message: Posted by: GJF (May 27, 2010 12:21AM)
I just loved the little hand! Very funny, not magical but so what? Magicians throughout history have been doing stunts and gags along their magic walk. I like to think Letterman will bring back all five in the future and I hope to see the likes of some of our other favorites.
Message: Posted by: MagicMan1957 (May 27, 2010 02:46AM)
During his lecture last year Mr. Ammar stated that he recently performed at the White House for an event. He did not get to meet the President but stated if he did and he only had 30 seconds to do something, he would have done the baby hand!

It does instantly bring a smile to anyone who sees it.
Message: Posted by: thehawk (May 27, 2010 08:20AM)
The little hand has been around for awhile. It was called Magician's helper and was shorter.
Message: Posted by: ralphs007 (May 27, 2010 10:04AM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-26 19:39, gaffed wrote:
[quote]
On 2010-05-26 15:21, ralphs007 wrote:
I can't understand how that trick can fool anyone.Especially when it's inflated after the penetration. It looks nothing like it should.
[/quote]

I think you mean DEFLATED. And yes, I really can't see how that could possibly fool anyone for that very fact. Three of my friends and a wife of one were not fooled by it at all. No, none of them has anything to do with magic. As a matter of fact, one of them even went so far as to try it out with a balloon and his iPod and said he managed to do it although it took about three or four tries. I have to admit, although I think MA is a top notch and a very innovative magician, and still do, that balloon trick left me totally cold.
[/quote]

Hi
I did mean inflated.After the phone penetrated the balloon, Mike inflated the balloon again. The balloon, looked nothing like it would have, had the phone really been inside of the balloon.
Message: Posted by: Andrew Zuber (May 27, 2010 10:14AM)
[quote]
Each magician got a lot of support from the production staff.
[/quote]
I wouldn't necessarily say this, having read John Carney's comments on his experience. He seemed to be less than pleased with the "support" from the staff, and rightfully so.
Message: Posted by: The Old Man (May 27, 2010 10:52AM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-27 11:14, Andrewzuber wrote:
[quote]
Each magician got a lot of support from the production staff.
[/quote]
I wouldn't necessarily say this, having read John Carney's comments on his experience. He seemed to be less than pleased with the "support" from the staff, and rightfully so.
[/quote]
OK, I got my information from the Magic Newswire podcast Letterman wrapup episode. Seemed the performers got as much help as one could expect.

In regard to Letterman himself--though he was a favorite of Johnny Carson, he is the antithesis of him. Carson felt it was his job to make his guest look as good as possible. I can't recall Carson making one snide remark toward any guest. He took the word "guest" literally. He did not have a need to constantly be the center of attention. Those days are long gone.
Message: Posted by: paynow (May 27, 2010 10:53AM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-26 18:36, The Old Man wrote:
I have no idea if you don't know what you're talking about or you have a faulty memory. Ernie Kovacs had a live comedy skit show like Your Show of Shows. He didn't have performers, he had cast members. In addition Steve Allen never treated guests like Dave Letterman. Letterman is the only talk show host I can think of who has treated a large number of people like ***s.
[/quote]

I've read every book on Ernie Kovacs that's ever been written. Any video that is available I own.

When Ernie first got on TV he hosted shows at WPTZ in Philadelphia, one in particular called "Deadline For Dinner". Cooks from local restaurants would come out and make something and the host would banter with them. It was originally hosted by someone else and one night that person got sick and they threw Ernie in as host. He re-christened the show "Dead Lion For Dinner" and spent the rest of its run cracking on the cooks, the same thing that Dave does now with those types of guests. The show was never serious again and they never brought back the original host because the audience went nuts for Ernie. There was a newscaster who used to break in during Ernie's morning show in Philly, and Kovacs would pour water on his head.

Then of course there was his famous character "Matzoh Hepplewhite, Itinerant Magician". Hilarious but not really flattering to magicians. Ernie hosted the "Tonight Show" in 1956 for several months when Steve Allen needed a break and one reason NBC didn't make him permanent when Allen left is because he would screw with the guests instead of interviewing them.

Letterman would have no career were it not for Kovacs and Allen; none of these guys would. Dave didn't treat anyone badly in my opinion. He was being Dave. And, while Steve Allen was nice to guests he would also goof on them on occasion.

[quote]
On 2010-05-26 18:48, jazzy snazzy wrote:
Letterman being equated with Ernie Kovacs and Steve Allen?
[/quote]

What I meant was the approaches have similarities.
Message: Posted by: RiffRaff (May 27, 2010 11:43AM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-27 00:40, The Old Man wrote:
[quote]
On 2010-05-26 19:29, RiffRaff wrote:
The only other conclusion that I can come to is that the director is so incompetent that he did not notice that the shot that he selected flashed the orange.
[/quote]
This all took place in less than one second. There was no way for a director to think: Let's see which camera should I call on next--I think I use my overhead--(looking at monitor in control booth)I believe, if I remember he's going to be pulling an orange out next--no it looks OK, "go overhead"--oh, oh, there's that orange, I guess I called it at the wrong time. Let's see, if I quickly change to another camera perhaps I'll be the only one who saw it--"go camera 2"--that's better now if only I remember where that coconut is going to be...

You're kidding right?
[/quote]

If I were kidding I'd say something like, 'what do you do with an elephant with three balls? ... you walk him and pitch to the rhino.'
The orange was flashed due to the selection of an unnatural angle.
Either the director saw it and decided to keep it, or he/she is too incompetent to notice the image they are capturing. If there is a third possibility you have not explained it clearly to me, Old Man.
Message: Posted by: The Old Man (May 27, 2010 12:04PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-27 11:53, paynow wrote:
When Ernie first got on TV he hosted shows at WPTZ in Philadelphia, one in particular called "Deadline For Dinner". Cooks from local restaurants would come out and make something and the host would banter with them. It was originally hosted by someone else and one night that person got sick and they threw Ernie in as host. He re-christened the show "Dead Lion For Dinner" and spent the rest of its run cracking on the cooks, the same thing that Dave does now with those types of guests. The show was never serious again and they never brought back the original host because the audience went nuts for Ernie. There was a newscaster who used to break in during Ernie's morning show in Philly, and Kovacs would pour water on his head.
[/quote]
I think most people would think of Kovac's national show. Not a local show, that at the time must have been seen by what--50,000 to 100,000 people? Again, Ernie Kovacs was known for his skits, not any talk shows.

[quote]
On 2010-05-27 12:43, RiffRaff wrote:
[quote]
On 2010-05-27 00:40, The Old Man wrote:
[quote]
On 2010-05-26 19:29, RiffRaff wrote:
The only other conclusion that I can come to is that the director is so incompetent that he did not notice that the shot that he selected flashed the orange.
[/quote]
This all took place in less than one second. There was no way for a director to think: Let's see which camera should I call on next--I think I use my overhead--(looking at monitor in control booth)I believe, if I remember he's going to be pulling an orange out next--no it looks OK, "go overhead"--oh, oh, there's that orange, I guess I called it at the wrong time. Let's see, if I quickly change to another camera perhaps I'll be the only one who saw it--"go camera 2"--that's better now if only I remember where that coconut is going to be...

You're kidding right?
[/quote]

If I were kidding I'd say something like, 'what do you do with an elephant with three balls? ... you walk him and pitch to the rhino.'
The orange was flashed due to the selection of an unnatural angle.
Either the director saw it and decided to keep it, or he/she is too incompetent to notice the image they are capturing. If there is a third possibility you have not explained it clearly to me, Old Man.
[/quote]
I'm sorry to go round and round with you on this, but again I think you're way overestimating the ability, or desire, of a "live" director to pick and choose shots. Again we are talking about a one or two second shot. Even if the shot was longer, which it wasn't, you'd still have the exposure, by the time you called a new angle, and the switcher did it, there would still be a second or two delay.
Message: Posted by: Andrew Zuber (May 27, 2010 12:57PM)
All of this is the reason that John should have had more than a ten minute rehearsal to go through the routine. That's the entire point of camera rehearsals - to avoid these issues.
Message: Posted by: paynow (May 27, 2010 01:30PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-27 13:04, The Old Man wrote:
I think most people would think of Kovac's national show. Not a local show, that at the time must have been seen by what--50,000 to 100,000 people? Again, Ernie Kovacs was known for his skits, not any talk shows.
[/quote]

Yes, that is true. But overall he was a very anarchic comic, like Dave. I Googled "ernie kovacs magic" (not in quotes) and came up with this, after some digging through the links:

http://erniekovacs.blogspot.com/2009/10/festival-of-magic-hosted-by-ernie.html

This is one production I've not seen or heard of. Interesting. The reviewer indicates that there was no interaction between Kovacs and the magicians but that it was probably because they were afraid of what he might do.
Message: Posted by: gaffed (May 27, 2010 04:29PM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-27 11:04, ralphs007 wrote:
[
Hi
I did mean inflated.After the phone penetrated the balloon, Mike inflated the balloon again. The balloon, looked nothing like it would have, had the phone really been inside of the balloon.
[/quote]

Got ya...a misunderstanding on my part. I thought you were referring to the so called "penetration". Funny, as I was hoping to see the phone end up inside the [i]inflated[/i] balloon. Now THAT would have been amazing! However, when he deflated it......so did I. ;)
Message: Posted by: magicfish (May 30, 2010 02:12AM)
[quote]
On 2010-05-27 17:29, gaffed wrote:
[quote]
On 2010-05-27 11:04, ralphs007 wrote:
[
Hi
I did mean inflated.After the phone penetrated the balloon, Mike inflated the balloon again. The balloon, looked nothing like it would have, had the phone really been inside of the balloon.
[/quote]

Got ya...a misunderstanding on my part. I thought you were referring to the so called "penetration". Funny, as I was hoping to see the phone end up inside the [i]inflated[/i] balloon. Now THAT would have been amazing! However, when he deflated it......so did I. ;)
[/quote]

This is without a doubt one of the weakest magic effects I've ever seen.

Rod
Message: Posted by: gaffed (May 31, 2010 08:06AM)
The disappointing thing to me is that MA is the one I was [i][b]really[/b][/i] looking forward to.
He has to be one of the most talented magicians we have with an amazing arsenal of effects. And yet, with all of that, he performed one of the most lamest looking effects I've ever seen with that cell phone and balloon. Make no mistake about it as I still think he is a [b]great[/b] magician, but in my opinion, he certainly failed to show his amazing talent on the DL show.
Message: Posted by: thehawk (May 31, 2010 09:53AM)
I agree the cell phone and balloon was lame. His silk through mug should have only been shown once.
Message: Posted by: frimuraren12 (Jun 4, 2010 09:18AM)
I think all of them picked pretty bad material.

I mean, why pick material that has the potential to flash with cameras everywhere etc? Im pretty sure all of these gentlemens had lots of other material that would be better suited for TV.

Everyone I spoke with said that the magicians looked cheesy and lame, just people in the magic world that thinks they are good.

They should really have sent someone who are cool and can make magic look good and current and give it a good name. Criss Angel and David Blaine would be the right men for the job.
Message: Posted by: Pakar Ilusi (Jun 4, 2010 09:22AM)
[quote]
On 2010-06-04 10:18, frimuraren12 wrote:
I think all of them picked pretty bad material.

I mean, why pick material that has the potential to flash with cameras everywhere etc? Im pretty sure all of these gentlemens had lots of other material that would be better suited for TV.

Everyone I spoke with said that the magicians looked cheesy and lame, just people in the magic world that thinks they are good.

They should really have sent someone who are cool and can make magic look good and current and give it a good name. Criss Angel and David Blaine would be the right men for the job.
[/quote]

You guys putting the performances down haven't done much TV work have you? Especially a big show like Letterman where the Producer's (and Letterman) have an agenda of their own.

If you have, then you would know that the Magicians have little power to insist on what they WANT to perform.

When you do Magic on Letterman, you do better ok?

ALL THE BEST. ;)
Message: Posted by: frimuraren12 (Jun 4, 2010 10:38AM)
I cant understand how some people can say that the magicians were treated badly and did not get much rehearshal etc and did not get enough respect and so on.

Do you think other performers do?

I have worked on a few TV shows and when musicians are on they are lucky to get to soundscheck the song once. If you are Mick Jagger or Bruce Springsteen you might get 10 minutes and they are people who are way "above" Dave and sells out an 100.000 seat arena in 30 minutes.

Posted: Jun 4, 2010 11:39am
And YES I would do better. The old farts have to go and some new faces needs to be seen.
Message: Posted by: Pakar Ilusi (Jun 4, 2010 01:19PM)
[quote]
On 2010-06-04 11:39, frimuraren12 wrote:
And YES I would do better. The old farts have to go and some new faces needs to be seen.
[/quote]

Show us a Video of your performance.
Message: Posted by: Pakar Ilusi (Jun 4, 2010 01:20PM)
Your best performances so far frimuraren12...
Message: Posted by: gaffed (Jun 4, 2010 01:30PM)
Well, he seems quite talented with the keyboard and I would tend to think that is about the extent of it. So, they are all old farts and should have been replaced with Criss Angel! :rolleyes: I'm afraid that wouldn't work for him as there is no video editing, special effects and paid spectators on the DL show.
Message: Posted by: Andrew Zuber (Jun 4, 2010 01:42PM)
[quote]
On 2010-06-04 11:38, frimuraren12 wrote:
I cant understand how some people can say that the magicians were treated badly and did not get much rehearshal etc and did not get enough respect and so on.

Do you think other performers do?

I have worked on a few tv shows and when musicians are on they are lucky to get to soundschek the song once. If you are Mick Jagger or Bruce Springsteen you might get 10 minutes and they are people who are way "above" Dave and sells out an 100.000 seat arena in 30 minutes.
[/quote]
This is incorrect. I worked on The Tonight Show (you know, the other late night program) for years, and the entire morning was devoted to sound checking musicians and checking camera angles. Their call was at 10 in the morning and they rehearsed until lunch, ate, then came back and rehearsed again until 2.

I'm not sure what public access talk show you're referring to, but in network TV, I don't care if it was some unknown kid singing acapella - musicians were all given plenty of time to rehearse.

I'm with the others...put your money where your mouth is and let's see a performance or two before bashing the "old farts" that were doing card tricks before Criss Angel was even born.
Message: Posted by: frimuraren12 (Jun 4, 2010 01:57PM)
Dude don't take it so hard.

Its a fact, they are old farts doing old fart magic. Magic have to change just like movies and music and comedy. Try to tell a joke from the 50s and see how it plays for a younger crowd.

To become a great magician today there are so much more then magic you need to have. You have to look cool, have the right attitude, get cool cloths, hit the gym so you get a great body with muscles etc so you look cool. You cant look like an old fart.
Message: Posted by: gaffed (Jun 4, 2010 02:15PM)
Perhaps take a good look at his other posts on other threads and I’m sure you’ll realize what is going on here.
He referred to Jason Randall, John Carney, Johnny “Ace” Palmer, Steven Cohen and Michael Ammar as “old farts” and unable to make magic look “cool”. That, and aside from the fact, that he also states that can perform better than them. Now, can we all spell TROLL, ignore, and then perhaps he’ll go back to posting to the kiddies on You Tube. I imagine that when he comes out with this card effect that will stun the entire magic community it will be posted on You Tube under the name of something like; “How to do my Magik Trik”. Other than that, I’ll have to admit he is entertaining to say the least, delusional perhaps, but entertaining.

His quotes as to the magicians that I mentioned who performed on the David Letterman show just recently.

[quote]
On 2010-06-04 10:18, frimuraren12 wrote

They should really have sent someone who are cool and can make magic look good and current and give it a good name. Criss Angel and David Blaine would be the right men for the job.
[/quote]

[quote]
On 2010-06-04 11:39, frimuraren12 wrote:
And YES I would do better. The old farts have to go and some new faces needs to be seen.
[/quote]
And of course my favorite!
[quote]
On 2010-06-02 01:55, frimuraren12 wrote:

Well me and my friend are teaming up to make the Teleportation DVD. We are like the Paul Mccartney/John Lennon or Mick Jagger/Keith Richards of magic.
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: Andrew Zuber (Jun 4, 2010 02:24PM)
You must be a comedian on the side; your posts are hilarious. My guess is that you're not old enough to have ever visited the Magic Castle, but I will tell you that in that environment, the place where the best of the best perform, a suit and tie are required to even walk through the door. Why? Because a magician who truly "looks cool" is one that performs well. If you're worried about hip clothing and muscles, you are pursuing the wrong hobby. Do you think Dai Vernon, John Robert-Houdin, or countless others cared about looking cool? You ought to have respect for the people that laid the groundwork on which magicians perform. Pretty easy to criticize performers from the safety of your keyboard.
I would suggest if you want to be taken seriously on this forum, you learn proper spelling and grammar before you post. Then, at least the nonsense you're sharing with us would be readable.

Posted: Jun 4, 2010 3:26pm
Gaffed - I did enjoy that last quote from the center deal thread. I rarely run into anyone as sarcastic as I am, yet even I couldn't pull that one off with a straight face.
Message: Posted by: frimuraren12 (Jun 4, 2010 02:36PM)
[quote]
On 2010-06-04 15:24, Andrewzuber wrote:
cared about looking cool?
[/quote]

that's the problem. Magicians are not cool but we need to be to become well respected. Actors, musicians etc all cares about that, how the look, their image etc. You know?

I don't care how good you are at something, if you look like an Old fart then you are just an Old fart for your audience. Nothing more nothing less.

No I'm not a troll, I'm serious. I know it hurts you guys but someone had to stand up and tell the truth. I cant let you live in your fantasy world where you think its ok to just have a good trick. lay people all over the world thinks magic is chessy right now. Just look and comments on youtube and other forums where lay people comment. THEY LAUGH at us, think we are chessy and that the magicians on letterman were.

You need good looks, muscles and cool cloths, AND good magic ofcourse. Then we would bring magic the respect it deserves.
Message: Posted by: Andrew Zuber (Jun 4, 2010 02:55PM)
Again, when you hit 21, try and visit the Magic Castle. I've taken plenty of lay people there, people in their early 20s, and they are very impressed by what they see. To many magicians, Criss Angel is a joke (and his show doesn't do all that well - they've even cut all of his dancers from the act.) Do I have a show in Vegas? Not even close...but I've seen what works. You'll be hard pressed to find bad reviews of Lance Burton's show, and many feel that Mac King (who looks like a geek and wears a plaid suit) has the best show on the Strip.

It would be in your best interest to be more modest with your comments. I read the thread on center deals, and frankly you should be humbled and in awe of the fact that you were exchanging posts with Harry Lorayne, one of the most respected performers in the business. Guys like that don't brag or talk down to others - they let their work speak for them. Until you have some proof that you know what you're talking about and it's working for you, I would suggest you do a little more reading and a little less typing. There is a wealth of knowledge on this board, and the people sharing their advice and wisdom are a valuable resource. Until you've worked Letterman, or the Castle, or the Magic Circle, or any other number of top-notch venues, keep your confidence in check.

As Gaffed mentioned, I too suspect you're a troll. If that's your game, tone it down a little. You're making it too obvious.
Message: Posted by: Pakar Ilusi (Jun 4, 2010 03:09PM)
Frimuraren12, where is your Video?

I am calling you out on this.

Or are you afraid to show yourself?
Message: Posted by: frimuraren12 (Jun 4, 2010 03:11PM)
Whats the problem me not liking Carney and the other guys? The only one who had style was Ammar.

And who cares if Criss is a joke to other magicians? Who cares if your respected by other magicians? Its about performing for your audience.

Criss Angel and David Blaine and Copperfield is the best magicians in the world? Why? Because they have the most success, sold the most tickets, had most people watch them and like them.
Message: Posted by: Andrew Zuber (Jun 4, 2010 03:15PM)
You should see Carney live some day - he is FANTASTIC. His one-man show in Los Angeles was one of the best presentations I have ever seen, and his Castle act is incredible as well.
Message: Posted by: gaffed (Jun 4, 2010 03:17PM)
[quote]
On 2010-06-04 15:26, Andrewzuber wrote:
Gaffed - I did enjoy that last quote from the center deal thread. I rarely run into anyone as sarcastic as I am, yet even I couldn't pull that one off with a straight face.
[/quote]

Seems as though I goofed! I had meant to place that post on the Center Deal thread and not here! Oh well....just about the same nonsense happening here from this kid and also there. Also, I find it rather odd that he would consider someone such as Michael Ammar as old, but yet, not Keith Richards of the Rolling Stones! Isn't Keith Richards the guy who is dead but someone forgot to tell him? ;)
Message: Posted by: Pakar Ilusi (Jun 4, 2010 03:18PM)
I am talking directly to you Frimuraren12, where is your Video?
Message: Posted by: frimuraren12 (Jun 4, 2010 03:34PM)
[quote]
On 2010-06-04 16:17, gaffed wrote:
[quote]
On 2010-06-04 15:26, Andrewzuber wrote:
Gaffed - I did enjoy that last quote from the center deal thread. I rarely run into anyone as sarcastic as I am, yet even I couldn't pull that one off with a straight face.
[/quote]

Seems as though I goofed! I had meant to place that post on the Center Deal thread and not here! Oh well....just about the same nonsense happening here from this kid and also there. Also, I find it rather odd that he would consider someone such as Michael Ammar as old, but yet, not Keith Richards of the Rolling Stones! Isn't Keith Richards the guy who is dead but someone forgot to tell him? ;)
[/quote]

You should give a deck to someone as cool as keith richards. A real performer like him would blow someone like carney away with some crappy old trick.
Message: Posted by: Andrew Zuber (Jun 4, 2010 03:42PM)
I think it's time you show us your disappearing act.
Message: Posted by: Pakar Ilusi (Jun 4, 2010 03:45PM)
HEY frimuraren12!

No Video of you performing Magic?

After all that showing off how others are no good, you have no Video?

I thought so.

TROLL.

Consider yourself busted.
Message: Posted by: BarryFernelius (Jun 4, 2010 04:02PM)
[quote]
On 2010-06-04 16:11, frimuraren12 wrote:
Criss Angel and David Blaine and Copperfield is the best magicians in the world? Why? Because they have the most success, sold the most tickets, had most people watch them and like them.
[/quote]

Using the same logic, McDonalds must make the best hamburgers in the world. Why? Because they have had the most success, sold more hamburgers than anyone else, and had the most people eat them and like them.

Or, maybe your argument is full of hot air. At the very least, I think that you and I have very different ideas about what we mean when we say 'best magician.'
Message: Posted by: gaffed (Jun 4, 2010 04:36PM)
God, I feel so depressed and disillusioned now. After 30 plus years of doing magic I now find out that talent means nothing and I’ve been going about it the wrong way. I’m 63, so that obviously makes me an old fart. I’m certainly not buffed, so again, I’m a failure. I don’t think at my age I would ever get away with wearing fourteen rings, a necklace made out of handcuffs or a dog chain, and miniature handcuffs for earrings although….I do have a pierced ear and wear a small gold earring at times! Even then, I’ll never make the cut as I haven’t invented a card manipulation that will turn the entire magic community over on its collective head. Not only that, but such a new and amazing effect that is so astounding that everyone on the Magic Café is too ignorant or too immature in the ways of magic to be ready for it yet. Might as well place my old TT, T.V Magic cards, etc. and place them back in my worn out Tricky Pete Magic box and give it all up. Let’s face it people, now that this new kid has come along to show us the errors of our ways and our total lack of magic expertise and how to go about it, and yes, even the long time well established professionals……..we’re ALL washed up. I guess about the only thing I still have at least is some semblance as how to use proper grammar. Then again, that isn’t magic is it, but just a stupid old thing called an education. Who needs that when your cool looking and buffed.
Oh well, it was fun while it lasted. :(
Message: Posted by: gaffed (Jun 4, 2010 11:22PM)
[quote]
On 2010-06-04 01:21, frimuraren12 wrote:
I can clearly understand that the magic community is not ready for the teleportation deal, your simply not there yet. Me and my friend has made some re thinking after this and we will hold it on until the future when we hope people get ready and better at magic so they can be ready for the power that the teleportation deal gives you.
[/quote]

Good Lord….I believe he has actually teleported himself off the site! And to think us foolish ignorant people had the temerity to doubt him! Now I’m [i][b]really[/b][/i] frightened of his omniscient powers!

Well, you can’t say he didn’t warn us! :wow:
Message: Posted by: Pakar Ilusi (Jun 5, 2010 04:50AM)
I for one am happy he has teleported!

:dancing:
Message: Posted by: epoptika (Jun 7, 2010 09:55AM)
Seems appropriate that trolls originated in Norse mythology. I suspect our annoying young friend is from Sweden, or perhaps Denmark. I also suspect he is around 12 years old. His English seems much better on other threads I noticed.

Dude?
Message: Posted by: TKO MAGIC (Jun 7, 2010 11:05AM)
[quote]
On 2010-06-04 16:45, Pakar Ilusi wrote:
HEY frimuraren12!

No Video of you performing Magic?

After all that showing off how others are no good, you have no Video?

I thought so.

TROLL.

Consider yourself busted.
[/quote]

This is uncalled for.
This guy has the right to his opinion. We might not agree with him but he does have a right to post what he wants. Why is it when someone post "I don't like him or he looks cheezy" we always say can you do better.
I would love to see you perform for a layperson and the layperson say's " that was cheezy" Are you going to ask the layperson can you do better?
I in no way agree with most of his comments but he has a right to voice his opinion with out getting called out to make a video.
He does make a good point however, why do you think Chris Angel, David Blaine, Copperfield are so famous? They do change with times. I also think why Lance and Mac are so popular in vegas they have a character. You can look sort of cheesy if that's your character, Mac is the KING of that. Lance's character is the Master magician the best of the best.
So you do need more than just talent to be famous you need the "IT" factor.
Gazzo and Inidyls made some great points on here. Dai Vernon was the best of the best teachers in magic. But how is it that laypeople know Chris Angel and Copperfield and not Vernon. More laypeople know Gazzo than Vernon and Gazzo isn't a tv superstar. You can be the greatest magician in the world but if you don't have the "IT" factor the audience won't like you very much.

Now as a magician I think Carney is the greatest of today, but as a layperson I love watching Gazzo, Bill Malone, Jeff Hobson. These guys are the best entertainers in magic at least in my eyes they are.
So what I'm getting at is you do need more than just talent.
Message: Posted by: Xpilot (Jun 7, 2010 02:15PM)
[quote]
On 2010-06-07 12:05, TKO MAGIC wrote:
This is uncalled for.[/quote]I'd disagree.

[quote]On 2010-06-07 12:05, TKO MAGIC wrote:
This guy has the right to his opinion. We might not agree with him but he does have a right to post what he wants. Why is it when someone post "I don't like him or he looks cheezy" we always say can you do better.[/quote]And the reason I'd disagree is that frimuraren12 didn't write "I don't like him", or "he looks cheezy". He wrote

[quote]And YES I would do better.[/quote]So no one called on him to do better or said that he didn't have a right to criticize unless he could do better. He made a flat statement that he would do better, so I don't think asking him to show that he's capable of doing better is uncalled for.

[quote]On 2010-06-07 12:05, TKO MAGIC wrote:
This guy has the right to his opinion. We might not agree with him but he does have a right to post what he wants.[/quote]As do the people that you're saying shouldn't have posted what they wanted to.

[quote]On 2010-06-07 12:05, TKO MAGIC wrote:
I would love to see you perform for a layperson and the layperson say's " that was cheezy" Are you going to ask the layperson can you do better?[/quote]I'm not. But if the layperson says "I can do better" then I'm probably going to ask him to show me what he can do. I suspect you might do the same.
Message: Posted by: Andrew Zuber (Jun 7, 2010 02:33PM)
I agree with Xpilot. Maybe because I fly planes and find his name to be super cool. I'm in the camp that you ought to put your money where your mouth is. Making some silly claim on a web forum is worthless unless you're going to back it up with evidence. I didn't see this fool performing on Letterman, and I suspect that if he had, Dave would have eaten him alive. There's no "innocent until proven guilty" when it comes to the performing arts. You have to show your chops before you'll get anywhere - I don't care how you dress or how you speak. Yes, you need a combination of things to be very successful, but my guess is this kid ain't got it. I'll give someone the benefit of the doubt if they come across as a nice person and they say reasonable things, but he was over the top with pretty much every statement he made.
Message: Posted by: TKO MAGIC (Jun 7, 2010 03:18PM)
Xpilot I'm not here to argue, but you are twisting my words. I did not say " But if the layperson says "I can do better" then I'm probably going to ask him to show me what he can do. I suspect you might do the same." I said if the layperson says you are cheezy, big difference.
And I was commenting how
Pakar said " Frimuraren12, where is your Video?

I am calling you out on this.

Or are you afraid to show yourself?"

Or Andrew saying " I think it's time you show us your disappearing act."

Than Pakar wrote "
HEY frimuraren12!

No Video of you performing Magic?

After all that showing off how others are no good, you have no Video?

I thought so.

TROLL.

Consider yourself busted."

Do we need to call the guy a troll or your busted or I think it's time you show us your disappearing act."

Andrew , I do agree with you on a lot of points he was over the top on pretty much every statement. But you said it best he made a silly claim on a web forum. Lets face it , this kid probably is very inexperienced and naive , we should educate him. Not calling him names or asking him to disappear.
Can't we all just get along. lol

Andrew that's cool you fly , so do I.
Message: Posted by: Andrew Zuber (Jun 7, 2010 04:34PM)
What do you fly, TKO? I think managing to have kept a plane airborne all these years without taking it into the side of a mountain or the Pacific Ocean is the most magical thing I've accomplished. I mainly fly Pipers, Tigers and 182s. Hoping to get certified for the A380 soon (that's a joke by the way...I hear the rental rates on those are ridiculous :) )
Message: Posted by: gaffed (Jun 7, 2010 11:36PM)
The bottom line here is that the kid was indeed "busted", as in banned, from the site. It wasn't done by any of the members as they obviously do not have the power to do so, but by the moderators who took an evaluation as to ALL of his collective posts. Granted, there were some earlier posts by him on different threads that seemed to be rather intelligent in some respect, but then he decidedly went over the deep edge with nothing more than any reasonable intelligent person could consider as nothing more than gibberish!

He suddenly lost any comprehensive use, or semblance of proper grammar, and went on a ridiculous rant of totally absurd asinine comments. Opinions are one thing, trolling to gain attention is another. It happens on forum sites, now perhaps we can move on. ;)
Message: Posted by: epoptika (Jun 8, 2010 12:54PM)
And although his silly comments really do not merit a response of any kind I can not resist commenting on his claim that Blaine would have done better. Did anyone see Blaine murdering the Tilt move on Oprah?

I don't think the critics on here have really analyzed just how impossible the performing conditions/angles were on the Letterman show.
Message: Posted by: mumford (Jun 8, 2010 05:05PM)
Jamy Swiss handled similar performing conditions on Craig Ferguson admirably.
Message: Posted by: Pakar Ilusi (Jun 9, 2010 07:37AM)
I stand by my words.

I called him out because he said he could do better.

I wanted to SEE IT.

Hey, maybe he can? Who knows?

But he didn't, so he was in my book, busted.

Imo, it was called for.
Message: Posted by: epoptika (Jun 9, 2010 12:49PM)
[quote]
On 2010-06-08 18:05, mumford wrote:
Jamy Swiss handled similar performing conditions on Craig Ferguson admirably.
[/quote]

Agreed. But of course the goobers commenting on YouTube just can't restrain themselves from talking about the methods.

You could not ask for a better host for magic than Craig Ferguson. Everybody send him a thank-you note!
Message: Posted by: Micheal Leath (Jun 9, 2010 11:30PM)
[quote]
On 2010-06-09 13:49, epoptika wrote:


Agreed. But of course the goobers commenting on YouTube just can't restrain themselves from talking about the methods.


[/quote]

That's why anyone who post a magic performance on YouTube should disable comments.
Message: Posted by: BAGWIZ (Jun 12, 2010 11:27AM)
I believe this thread started as a discussion about "magic week" on the David Letterman Show, but then somehow evolved into something entirely different. At the risk of changing the current subject, I'd like to throw in my two cents on the original topic after finally watching all the performances.

I'm old enough to remember watching the "Tonight Show" with Johnny Carson, practically since Johnny started. That means I also had plenty of opportunities to see dozens and dozens of similar productions, as well as the many variety shows that used to be staples of prime and night time television. As a kid born in the 50's, perhaps mine is the first generation that really grew up with TV as a mainstay and more important, an influence.

As I reflect on how magic has been typically presented on TV (particularly on the late night shows), with few exceptions the presentations themselves seemed more like separate "acts" than part of the fabric of the shows themselves. For example, Carson, Griffin and others would often host close-up magicians on their shows, but they'd typically have a special set-up for them. We can still see many of these performances on YouTube. Here are a couple of examples:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JufpAo-fF4c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1tyUcLJrpk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNeFfOFJqEE

Very seldom would you ever see a close-up magician come out and act like a regular guest on the show, by simply walking onstage and sitting down on the couch or chair next to the host. In fact, I seem to recall that it was quite a big deal if a guest on the Tonight Show actually had an opportunity to walk right out and sit down with Johnny at his desk. That was, I believe, considered an honor among performers ... a sort of "right of passage".

I wonder if perhaps the manner in which magic has been typically presented on TV over the years, hasn't (in a subtle way) contributed to some peoples' impression that "magic is cheesy". In performance after performance, it almost looks like we are incapable of walking out like a normal person, shaking the host's hand and sitting down for a little interview. Instead, we have to have our special tables, costumes, patter and so forth. The more I watch these old clips and think about how they looked at the time, the more it feels like close-up magic was IN the shows, but not really PART of them.

My point is that I applaud the David Letterman Show for trying to present close-up magic as PART of the show. Each of his guest magicians was treated like any other guest and all did their "performing" within the context of that role. They didn't have a special table set-up, didn't use close-up pads and for the most part, came across as regular people who happen to have a special talent.

I could be completely off base on this and if so, I'm sure I'll be reading the posts very soon. But to me it was refreshing to see close-up magic presented on TV this way. It was, in my opinion, the closest magic has gotten to looking "natural" on television.

That said, I also want to mention that I have the utmost respect and admiration for the talented performers who participated in Letterman's magic week. I think it takes a lot of skill, talent and guts to perform on TV in any situation. In this particular case, Letterman forced them all to show their stuff through a different type of lense. Each of them did what he thought best to rise to the occasion and I, for one, appreciate them (and Letterman himself) for it.
Message: Posted by: Xpilot (Jun 12, 2010 02:02PM)
[quote]
On 2010-06-07 15:33, Andrewzuber wrote:
I agree with Xpilot. Maybe because I fly planes and find his name to be super cool.[/quote]
I've been using it on and off for 15 years. Thought it was cooler that 'Ex-pilot', especially since I'm still licensed although don't keep a current physical. I flew mostly helicopters and only have a couple hundred hours in fixed-wing though.
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mystoffelees (Jun 12, 2010 07:48PM)
Interesting perspective, Bagwiz. Certainly gives a different spin to having the guest magicians scrunched up at the desk. I think you have a good point...
Message: Posted by: phaddad2 (Jun 13, 2010 08:09PM)
I agree totally. This is one of the few time a Magician has been a GUEST and not just an act. This is an upgrade for close-up magic and all magicians in general. This takes us from the levels of stupid human tricks to guests on par with other entertainers. BIG JUMP.
Pete
Message: Posted by: Pakar Ilusi (Jun 13, 2010 11:40PM)
WELL SAID, BAGWIZ!
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (May 6, 2012 05:36PM)
This is a VERY difficult setting to perform as they are out of their comfort zone. I could NEVER have done it. Well, I could have done it, but looked REALLY bad doing it.

Michael's thoughts on the set he chose and why:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAVSpNfj278
Message: Posted by: KC Cameron (Sep 19, 2012 06:59PM)
Magicians in the trenches deal difficult audiences and awkward situations all the time, and I wonder if many of these older pros get dirty anymore, they certainly don't need to the trench work. Then again, I have never had the opportunity to be on national TV, and commenting afterward is pretty easy.
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Sep 29, 2012 11:38PM)
I've watched all the performances many times. I think Johnny Ace Palmer's performance was the finest you could imagine.

And do do the cups and balls in that setting ( at Dave's desk ) took BIG....cups and balls. To do the chick final loads in that setting is hard to believe.