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Topic: Derren Brown Books
Message: Posted by: Rennie (Jun 18, 2010 10:02AM)
I am trying to understand why Derren Brown's books bring top dollar. There are so many better books on the subject of magic / mentalism, yet his books are going for $100.00-$200.00 whenever I see them on-line. I for one cannot see why!
I am totally open to anyone who can answer this question as to what is in these books?
Rennie
Message: Posted by: kozmic kettle (Jun 18, 2010 12:46PM)
They're out of print - which can increase the perceived value of magic books by a huge amount. Just look at the prices that the Color Books of Mentalism were fetching before Prism came out, or that The Card Magic of Nick Trost was fetching before it was reprinted.

Also, Derren is a big star at the moment. He's a household name in the UK and has a much higher level of fame than other magic authors. He has more people copying his style than any other current performer and thousands of would be mentalists want to be him!
Message: Posted by: markmiller (Jun 18, 2010 02:03PM)
In addition to being out of print, his books have a philosophical slant different than others in a number of ways including his take on the mix of magic and mentalism. Content aside, he is also an entertaining writer.
Message: Posted by: Rennie (Jun 18, 2010 03:12PM)
I have many other books that are out of print, and they do not come close to the prices of his books. I personally feel the words "out of print" are greatly overused in the book field.
I have gotten more useable magic out of the Trost books than I have from Derren Borwn.
Again, I am just trying to see why anyone wants them, forgetting the out of print answer. Is there over the top mentalism in the pages, I do not feel there is, but that is why I am asking this question.
Rennie
Message: Posted by: markmiller (Jun 18, 2010 08:02PM)
Your question was clearly asked and I answered, perhaps you don't get it since you are not a fan. There are plenty of books with tricks, the innovative "ideas" in Brown's books are not tricks. But it's okay, not a big deal if you don't appreciate what he has to offer, his books are not for everybody.
Message: Posted by: magicFreak2 (Jun 23, 2010 07:23AM)
[quote]
On 2010-06-18 21:02, markmiller wrote:
Your question was clearly asked and I answered, perhaps you don't get it since you are not a fan. There are plenty of books with tricks, the innovative "ideas" in Brown's books are not tricks. But it's okay, not a big deal if you don't appreciate what he has to offer, his books are not for everybody.
[/quote]

Well said. If you have watched him, and know the caliber of mentalist he is, and would like to learn some of his effects, like psychological forces, smoke, and other brilliant Loy suggestive effects, you'll pay anything for his books.
Message: Posted by: silverking (Jun 23, 2010 09:44AM)
Once a (retail)$40.00 book passes $150.00 - $200.00 in the used marketplace, it becomes impossible to get an impartial opinion on the quality of the material in the book itself, or an accurate rational as to why the book is selling in the hundreds of dollars (other than the fact that the marketplace establishes the price at that price point).

Those who [i]own[/i] the book will attempt to mystify the material in order that the book maintain its value, both in the marketplace and in their own minds.

Those who [i]don't[/i] own the book will render only their [i]thinking pattern[/i] used in order to convince themselves they must spend the money required to place the book on their library shelf.

Having said that, the actual quality of writing is superb in Brown's books. His wry sense of humor translates to the page extremely well.
I suspect though, that for most folks a purchase of Brown's (now re-released) [b]"The Devils PIcturebook"[/b] DVD might be a more affordable (and useful) introduction to his material and methodology/mindset (remembering of course that Brown himself doesn't do [i]any[/i] of the material in the books or on the DVD any longer, and hasn't done for many years).

Although glossed over in current discussions about the books and DVD, this material is a peek into Brown's mind a decade (or longer) ago........certainly not where he's at today based on his choice of original performance material over the past few years.
Message: Posted by: Jon_Thompson (Jun 26, 2010 12:12PM)
[quote]
On 2010-06-18 11:02, Rennie wrote:
I am trying to understand why Derren Brown's books bring top dollar. There are so many better books on the subject of magic / mentalism, yet his books are going for $100.00-$200.00 whenever I see them on-line. I for one cannot see why!
I am totally open to anyone who can answer this question as to what is in these books?
Rennie
[/quote]
Well, put simply, they're collectables.
Message: Posted by: silverking (Jun 26, 2010 12:31PM)
Being that there's [i]always[/i] at least two or three copies (usually more) of each book available on ebay, I'm not sure they're as much "collectable", as they are simply "desirable".

I believe folks think there's material in the two books that will advance their skills disproportionate to what other books might, and this is what drives the high price (along with the books being OOP).

Although well written, excellent books........and the current price [i]does[/i] do a good job of reflecting the fact that the books are desirable and OOP........ the ready availability of both books indicates that [i]plenty[/i] of owners are more than willing to get rid of them upon completion of reading.

Emperor's New Clothes?.............maybe a bit.
Message: Posted by: brehaut (Jun 26, 2010 01:05PM)
Supply and demand---if nobody will pay the price, the price will go down. If more people pay the price it will go up.
Message: Posted by: Beetroot (Jun 26, 2010 05:19PM)
In the UK - ask any non-magician/mentalist to name a mentalist of anykind. Apart from perhaps the answer of Simon Baker/Patrick Jane (which doesn't count) the only answer you are likely to get is Derren Brown. I know a number of non-magicians (although I think they are heading that way) who have sought out Derren's books. Consequently, as brehaut has already said, the law of supply and demand comes into play AND (perhaps???) that of keeping the knowledge out of the hands of those who just want to pry.
Message: Posted by: landmark (Jun 26, 2010 05:31PM)
Because he's a bloody genius. The six pages that begin on page 113 of Pure Effect are the most valuable pages I've ever read about mentalism. YMMV.
Message: Posted by: jesse_james_mcguire (Jun 27, 2010 01:06PM)
Everyone loves DBrown, and hype him up, so his value goes up.
Message: Posted by: PhatDad (Jun 28, 2010 06:52PM)
I've just returned from another one of his shows and once again he was amazing as a showman. This is what the books are about and I think people ignore, more likely don't understand, what he teaches in the books. It's not about the effects he includes it's all about the effects in the viewers mind he allows magicians to create. He teaches the magician how to entertain the public by taking them on a journey rather than your regular 'pick a card, oooh look at it appear on my forehead'.

I can't say much but he took a really simple effect, that most card magicians can do, and turned it into a half hour, jaw dropping, mentalist entertainment. The moves etc were done within the first couple of minutes he then went on and entertained which is what a lot of magicians overlook as they're too hung up on knuckle breaking, finger flicking moves.

I don't know many magicians/mentalists who can hold a crowd for 3 to 3 1/2 hours without losing them. Derren managed to keep us laughing, at one point I was nearly lost in a giggling fit, he also brought a tear to a lot of peoples eyes with one very emotional effect, and then amazed everyone with his finale.

I sound a little like a fanboy don't I? :) Seriously though, Derren Brown has done for mentalism what David Blaine did for magic, he's brought it to a new generation and kicked out the same old - same old, repetitive Max Maven types.
Message: Posted by: Waters (Jun 28, 2010 09:05PM)
[quote]
On 2010-06-28 19:52, PhatDad wrote:
I've just returned from another one of his shows and once again he was amazing as a showman. This is what the books are about and I think people ignore, more likely don't understand, what he teaches in the books. It's not about the effects he includes it's all about the effects in the viewers mind he allows magicians to create. He teaches the magician how to entertain the public by taking them on a journey rather than your regular 'pick a card, oooh look at it appear on my forehead'.[/quote]

Exactly! They are worth every penny for the reason you mention. It's about a philosophy, not an effect.

Cheers,

Sean
Message: Posted by: Rennie (Jul 3, 2010 10:22AM)
[quote]
On 2010-06-26 14:05, brehaut wrote:
Supply and demand---if nobody will pay the price, the price will go down. If more people pay the price it will go up.
[/quote]
This is the one statement I have to agree with!
Rennie
Message: Posted by: lebowski (Jul 3, 2010 11:59AM)
So Rennie, obviously you knew the answer before you started this thread.
Message: Posted by: Rennie (Jul 3, 2010 05:56PM)
[quote]
On 2010-07-03 12:59, lebowski wrote:
So Rennie, obviously you knew the answer before you started this thread.
[/quote]
No, not really. And I still don't know the answer. But thanks for nothing.
Message: Posted by: Steven Keyl (Jul 6, 2010 12:20PM)
You obviously aren't a DB fan, which is fine. There are plenty of people on the other side of that fence. There's your answer. I would have thought you could have figured that one out yourself.

In any event, I'm glad to be of help.
Message: Posted by: cairo (Jul 6, 2010 12:26PM)
Rennie it's okay that Brown isn't your cup of tea or you just don't get what his books have to offer. Either way, if you can't see the answer to your question after all the positive posts in this thread, you may as well give up and figure you are the one who never will understand.
Message: Posted by: Bobbert (Jul 11, 2010 03:52PM)
I once talked to a friend of mine about books dealing with theory rather then material. I told him I read:

- Strong Magic
- Maximum Entertainment
- Designing Miracles
- Fitzkee Trilogy
- Real Secrets of Magic
- etc.. etc..

He laughed at me and held up "Strong magic"... now I am curious as to what is in it and want to buy one, even to this day.

maybe its just the same case with all the other magicians who would pay that much for it? They are curious as to what is inside and actually have the money to afford it
Message: Posted by: mumford (Jul 11, 2010 09:36PM)
If you're like Rennie don't bother, just get a book of tricks.