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Topic: Express your views
Message: Posted by: TylerJoseph (Jul 25, 2010 05:19AM)
Hey guys.. Tyler here
I guess you could say I'm a beginner when it comes magic although it has interested me from a young age.
I've always wondered what the opinion of other magicians is towards Gimmicked coin tricks as opposed to Sleight of hand.
Message: Posted by: Jaz (Jul 25, 2010 05:49AM)
During my daily grind I don't carry any gimmicks, just a few half$.
If I'm going somewhere where I may want to do some strong magic or may be asked to do something I may carry some 'extras'.
When doing an act I use both.

My preference is sleight of hand but I'm certainly not opposed to extras.
Message: Posted by: TylerJoseph (Jul 25, 2010 06:13AM)
Perhaps you could say that the use of gimmicks during impromptu performances could prove problematic and, perhaps require prior setup as opposed to performing a routine of coin sleights?
Message: Posted by: sarjito (Jul 25, 2010 06:16AM)
I personaly think combination of them both is a killer
Message: Posted by: Jaz (Jul 25, 2010 06:52AM)
[quote]
On 2010-07-25 07:13, TylerJoseph wrote:
Perhaps you could say that the use of gimmicks during impromptu performances could prove problematic and, perhaps require prior setup as opposed to performing a routine of coin sleights?
[/quote]

Perhaps.
It depends on the props, routines and how you're dressed to an extent.
Keeping the gimmicks to a minimum, good pocket management and using fekes that look like common objects or using unseen gimmicks can work OK.
Message: Posted by: Sammy J. (Jul 25, 2010 08:42AM)
Gaff coins enable you to do some routines in a cleaner fashion.

I agree that using sleight of hand and "ringing in" a gimmick from time to time lets you create some very magical moments.
Message: Posted by: gaddy (Jul 25, 2010 11:59AM)
They're both weapons in our arsenal, and used in different circumstances. Just as there is a correct time to use a bowie knife and there is a correct time to use a deer rifle, so it is with pure sleight of hand and gimmicked magic.

The audience should never be aware of either.
Message: Posted by: J-Mac (Jul 25, 2010 12:02PM)
Nothing at all wrong with gimmicks. Why do you ask? (I'm curious!)

If one's intent is to entertain spectators with effects that appear to be magical, then any way to do that is proper and good, be it sleight of hand or deception using other means.

Jim
Message: Posted by: Jacques (Jul 25, 2010 03:39PM)
In most cases, using a gimmick to obtain the desired effect, without suggesting its existence, require good sleight of hand.
Message: Posted by: Ocha (Jul 25, 2010 04:14PM)
I love gaff coins, they allow some effects to be done in an extremely clean manner.
That said you MUST get proficient with slight of hand first in my opinion to really make good routines instead of just a "trick". to be a good magician you need to be able to entertain weather you have gaffs with you or not. You really look cheesy when you say "sorry I can't do that one right now because I don't have a certain something with me..." But you look great when you say something like "you've already seen that one, but let me borrow some coins and I'll show you something really cool..." If you rely only on Gaffs then you have to use the first statement (which makes people think there must be special coins or something) but if you are good with slight of hand you can use the second statement and then people "know" you don't use special coins since you could use their own coins. I use silver dollars and always say "I use large coins because they are easier to see" which justifies me using my own coins when I have them on me (gaffs or regular). If at some point I have done some great slight of hand with a persons own coins then the next time I see them and I pull out MY coins there is no doubt in their minds that I could probably do this with their coins but are using my own coins so they can see them better...
Long Winded I know......

Bottom line: Both slight of hand and gaffs are great, but if I had to choose between them I'd go with slight of hand. Since I don't have to choose between them I use both.

ocha
Message: Posted by: TC Ryder (Jul 25, 2010 05:12PM)
Be careful when you start using Gaffs. You might get addicted and it's a hard habit to break. But seriously I agree with Sammy here. Learn the slights and get good at them and get some routines going. You can throw in a Gaff here and there and it makes for a good repertoire. A good expanded sh**l and a C/S coin go a long way.

TC
Message: Posted by: Johnny Butterfield (Jul 25, 2010 06:01PM)
What's better, a hammer or a wrench?

Use the best tool for the job. I know a bunch of coins across routines with gaffs and without, but the one with the s***l looks the cleanest for me. I can do coins across with four borrowed coins and nothing but sleight of hand, but it doesn't allow for the really clean displays of the method with the s***l. It still flies, but it's not quite as strong.

The s***l version still requires a pretty good classic palm, and there's a steal thrown in that took a bit of work, so it's not like the gaff does all the work. Use whatever works the best, but don't think that the gaffs will do all the work for you.
Message: Posted by: TylerJoseph (Jul 26, 2010 01:26AM)
Great to hear everybody's views, I was only curious because I have come across other, let's just say "critics", who will say that you're not a skilled magician because you may use gimmicks or gaffs. I laugh at the statement ofcourse, because they do not acknowledge entirely the amount of thought and intelligence that goes into the creation, performance and use of a trick.

we all know any old shmuck can pick up a trick, but it takes a true magician to perform.
Message: Posted by: jazzy snazzy (Jul 26, 2010 02:39AM)
That attitude might have existed years ago but you don't see it so much anymore.
Coin magic has grown considerably, both with and without gaffs.
What's important is the performance.
Message: Posted by: Dougini (Jul 27, 2010 01:00PM)
Good question. I always carry something "extra" with me just in case, but I prefer to use Sleight of Hand. I get a lot of "do it again"'s, so I use several different sleights to repeat. I used the "extra" just the other day, when someone "busted" me, and that did it! Whew! Tough crowd they were...glad I was prepared.

Oh, by the way, the person who busted me said they saw the effect revealed on YouTube!!

:phhhhhht:

Doug
Message: Posted by: J-Mac (Jul 27, 2010 01:13PM)
Thanks Tyler. Good question indeed!

Jim
Message: Posted by: Daz Buckley (Jul 29, 2010 11:17PM)
For me it's all about the effect.

The "how" doesn't interest me as much as the result on the spectator.

I aspire to being proficient at sleight of hand as well as having gaffs ringed in from time to time.

They are tools to be used in the best manner possible.

Don't worry about other magicians. Worry about your audience..............
Message: Posted by: KirkG (Jul 30, 2010 04:05PM)
I think that the comment might be more clearly interpreted is that you are not a "real magician" if ALL you do is gimmicked coin magic. If you can't do some basic moves well, then I think that may be a valid point. The reasoning is this. Even with gaffs, you need to be able to do moves smoothly and most guys who only do gaff work lean on the gaffs to the exclusion of practice until they are really smooth.

I prefer to be able to do miracles at any time even with borrowed coins, so my "Tools" are techniques. I only use a gimmick when the trick can't be accomplished any other way OR it very strongly enhances the trick. It is getting more and more easy to do miracles with non prepared items as I get older and have the years of practice to drawn on for smoothness.
Message: Posted by: Dougini (Jul 30, 2010 06:46PM)
Ya know...it's amazing how amazed people get at just a French Drop or the Spellbound effect. I don't even carry silver dollars any more. Just whatever change I have or borrow, does the "trick", so to speak.

Just the other day, for example (please don't think I'm bragging), at a small country store here in Maine, I just used the Bobo Switch, to change a penny to a dime. I went back today, and the whole staff came around, asking me to "do it again"! I was surprised. I didn't think it was that big of a deal.

Next time, I'll bring in my Expanded Quarter. Hoo-boy...!

Doug
Message: Posted by: PAUL K (Jul 31, 2010 08:39PM)
The Hopping Half By Johnson is Great!!! I have had it for over 25 years I think
is one of the best gaffs.

Scotch & Soda Magnitic by Tango do over 50 tricks with it and make coins vanish
in persons hand.

Johnny Wongs Supper Triple Coins you can do so many tricks with it. Here is
Ponta Smith. Watch this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZO23osxSTBw&feature=related

Paul
Message: Posted by: mike greene (Aug 1, 2010 05:18AM)
As has been said, the audience doesn't know or care if you're using pure sleight of hand or a gimmick.

THE ENDS JUSTIFIES THE MEANS

Once you build up your esteem (perhaps by doing pure sleight stuff with their borrowed coins) you will have the trust of the audience, and this is the time to ring in a gimmick. Since you've been using their coins up to that point, you're almost above suspicion and they already think you can perform miracles.