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Topic: Fox Lake Cards
Message: Posted by: Mike M (Aug 3, 2010 08:18AM)
Anyone else remember the old days when 90% of all gimmicked decks sold in magic stores were bridge sized Fox Lake cards? It was immpossible to find poker sized Bicycles, I guess because it was cheaper to use the Fox.

It seemed the only place to even get a regular deck of Fox Lakes was at a magic store.
Message: Posted by: Anatole (Aug 3, 2010 09:11AM)
I remember those days well. Wild Card was originally sold only as bridge-sized Fox Lake cards. I seem to remember, too, that sometimes the Fox Lake special cards had a slightly off-white color that made them stick out like a sore thumb if we tried to use them in a regular deck. That's why I started making my own doubleface/doubleback cards by splitting the backs and faces off cards and then re-gluing them with rubber cement. I had the process down to an art and science based on techniques I learned for mounting photos onto matboard.(It was nice to be able to take a skill known mostly to card manipulators and use it to fool the guys who only did tricks with gimmicked cards.)

----- Amado "Sonny" Narvaez
Message: Posted by: Dick Christian (Aug 3, 2010 09:50AM)
We real "old timers" remember when the Fox Lake design sold exclusively at magic shops was in common use as "Aviator" cards when bridge was the most common card game in the US -- almost everyone, both men and women, played and every major city newspaper had a regular weekly if not daily bridge column -- and poker (either draw or stud -- "Texas hold 'em" didn't exist) was played almost exclusively by men and only for gambling. "Aviators" were far more common and familiar than Bicycle, Hoyle, Bee, Maverick or any of the others.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Aug 3, 2010 03:28PM)
John Snyder had a special agreement with USPCCo. to sell him Aviator bridge cards in his own proprietary Fox Lake™ boxes. Ronald Haines basically purchased this agreement. Magicians who had a certain amount of "snap" would either make their own gaffs or have people who knew how to do it make them.
Message: Posted by: Donal Chayce (Aug 3, 2010 08:43PM)
My first invisible deck was a Fox Lake deck. I got it at the Main Street Magic Shop in Disneyland when I was just 10 years old. Even though I was just a young 'un, I knew enough to buy an Aviator deck when I got back home so I could put the ID in a regular box.
Message: Posted by: Michael Baker (Aug 7, 2010 01:24PM)
I still have several gaffed decks and random Fox Lake and Aviator cards hiding in my "vault". I suspect most of them are probably clumping like used cat litter by now. :)
Message: Posted by: Wizard of Oz (Aug 7, 2010 01:32PM)
This is a great thread, as it brings back so many memories of glass display cases in magic shops, stacked with Fox Lake packet tricks. I think this is one advancement in magic that we can be proud of...Bicycle as the new standard.
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (Sep 13, 2010 06:56PM)
I believe I have a rainbow deck that was Fox Lake - I like them as they also remind me of Disneyland and local Magic stores in L.A. as a kid.

BRETT
Message: Posted by: DomKabala (Sep 14, 2010 09:35AM)
I still have some packet tricks of the '70s and they are made with Fox Lake cards. I learned to do most of the basic sleights (Classic Pass, Charlier Cut, etc.)with Bridge sized cards. They worked fine for me as I have small hands.

Then the '80s rolled along and I had to relearn everything with Poker cards...I can't do a Charlier Cut anymore though and my Pass is, well to put it mildly, impassable :rotf: :(

Cardamagically,
Dom :) ;)
Message: Posted by: Stevethomas (Sep 14, 2010 10:13AM)
I have a deck with "Made For John Snyder" printed on the box.

Steve
Message: Posted by: sethb (Sep 14, 2010 01:16PM)
Now that you mention it, I have a Fox Lake Svengali Deck that's about 40 years old, and it's resting comfortably in my magic drawer along with other assorted whatnot.

I'm pitching Svengali Decks now, and recently took a look at the old Fox Lake deck. I was amazed to see that almost every key card was a different length! It was as if the deck had been handmade (but not all that well). Of course, it still worked just fine anyway, but the pitch decks of today from FUN Inc. or Loftus are much more precisely cut, and some of them even have rounded corners, which the Fox Lake deck did not.

But I'm not complaining -- if it wasn't for the Fox Lake deck, I might never have been introduced to the wonderful world of magic. SETH
Message: Posted by: Merc Man (Oct 23, 2010 06:36AM)
I adore Fox Lake cards and still use them!

Their 'Bridge Size' makes them more acceptable in the UK where, despite the massive interest now in Poker, Bridge Size decks are still primarily used (Carta Mundi Stratus, and Waddingtons Number 1 are still the most popular brands sold in shops).

Unfortunately, I'm on my last brick of Fox Lakes. The current Aviator Bridge are, by comparison, a joke. A brick of these I purchased were off-cut and extremely flimsy due to their extremely cheap card stock. Well done USPCC - I NEVER experienced such slap dash quality when they were produced by Haines!

Fox Lakes were also excellent for 'roughing'. I've still got a Brainwave deck via International Magic and an Invisible Deck via Ken Brooke - both purchased in the late 70's and both working like new - I've never had to re-treat either.
Message: Posted by: Anatole (Oct 28, 2010 08:11AM)
MAGIC Magazine's article a few years ago about Channing Pollock stated "One summer, while working labeling bottles in the judge's wine tasting booth at the California State Fair, he noticed a short, swarthy man by the name of El Martin gathering crowds by pitching Svengali Decks. Channing stood in awe for the next several hours as El Martin dazzled everyone with a simple deck of cards that impossibly changed faces. This was much more visual than the crude gambler's card trick he learned in the Navy. Channing bought a Svengali deck and was hooked." I wonder if it was a Fox Lake deck. Interesting, too, is the observation that although purists might prefer the Dunbury Delusion trick because it doesn't use gimmicked cards, Channing appreciated the impact of tricks that could only be done with a gimmicked deck. I think Lewis Ganson pointed that out in one of his Routined Manipulation volumes.

It would have been interesting to see what nuances Channing might have added as he developed tricks with the deck. I think all magic shop demonstrators probably added an effect or two to their demo routine that wasn't in the list of tricks provided in the instructions that was either in the "50 Tricks with a Svengali Deck" book or that we made up ourselves.

I loved Aviator cards. When Bicycle cards came out with that light plastic coating finish, they were kind of slippery and sometimes bowed. Aviators were closer to the old air cushion finish and perfectly flat. They were also great for the old gag I learned at a Don Lawton lecture using a wooden coat hanger.

----- Amado "Sonny" Narvaez
Message: Posted by: Mowee (Oct 28, 2010 10:49PM)
Yup Fox Lakes were my first invisible deck and I still have a Cut deck in them. In the 70s I graduated to Tally Ho and loved their feel....now, I am rearming with Bicycles. Ah the world continues to change.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Oct 28, 2010 11:35PM)
[quote]
On 2010-10-23 07:36, Merc Man wrote:
I adore Fox Lake cards and still use them!

Their 'Bridge Size' makes them more acceptable in the UK where, despite the massive interest now in Poker, Bridge Size decks are still primarily used (Carta Mundi Stratus, and Waddingtons Number 1 are still the most popular brands sold in shops).

Unfortunately, I'm on my last brick of Fox Lakes. The current Aviator Bridge are, by comparison, a joke. A brick of these I purchased were off-cut and extremely flimsy due to their extremely cheap card stock. Well done USPCC - I NEVER experienced such slap dash quality when they were produced by Haines!

Fox Lakes were also excellent for 'roughing'. I've still got a Brainwave deck via International Magic and an Invisible Deck via Ken Brooke - both purchased in the late 70's and both working like new - I've never had to re-treat either.
[/quote]

Haines never actually "produced" those cards. They were all printed at the USPCCo plant, that is all of the regular Fox Lake cards were. The blank faces and backs came from USPCCo that way, as well. I'm fairly sure the double facers were printed that way by USPCCo, as well.

They were printed on standard linen finish USPCCo card stock.

Haines did their own roughing work. I was there once when they decided to do a run of Brainwave decks. They had an amazing system for holding the cards. However, when I saw them do the work, they were using poker sized cards.

Generally speaking, unless you have terribly dirty hands or you are working in terribly dirty conditions, there is no reason that a rough and smooth deck should not last you for many, many years. I have decks that I roughed myself 25 - 30 years ago that still work fine.

The secret to keeping them functioning properly (other than working with clean hands) ;) is to clean the cards from time to time. Use a worn-out but clean silk. Polish the "smooth" surfaces of the cards with it. This will remove any grime or dust that has built up on the smooth surfaces.

The source of the maintenance info is Eric Lewis.
Message: Posted by: Anatole (Oct 30, 2010 01:14PM)
I never understood the difference between "linen finish" and "air cushion finish," although I generally preferred the air cushion.

Speaking of air... With cheaper bridge cards (the kind with puppy dog and flower pictures on the back), I used to be able to do the trick where you drop the deck from a height of about two feet above the table top, and the top card would flip face up. I got it down to a knack so that it looked like the face down deck just landed on the table and the top card magically turned itself face up. I combined it with shuffling the four aces into the deck and making them reappear using the air pressure effect. No need to throw the deck; just drop it.A similar but less reliable effect could be accomplished by tossing the deck sideways onto a table cloth so that they spread ribbon-like, but the selected card would flip face up and land in the middle of the spread.

----- Amado "Sonny" Narvaez
Message: Posted by: Merc Man (Oct 31, 2010 11:29AM)
Thanks for the info Bill - as the Fox Lake card cases state 'Haines House of Cards' I believed them to be the actual manufacturer.

That said, the fact remains that the current USPCC Aviator Bridge decks are absolutely woeful. the printing is often completely offset and the card stock is so thin they warp beyond belief (and we are hardly known for a humid climate in England! ;) ) - making them pretty useless for many sleights.

Then again, the debate around USPCC's quality control (or rather, the lack of it) seems to be a constant topic of debate. In my view, they seem to be focussing upon price rather than quality - and that's a great shame.

Meanwhile, the quality of most Carta Mundi decks I have seen has been exceptional - and they sell for around the same price as a Bicycle deck. Unfortunately. most don't lend themselves favourably to card sleights!
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Nov 2, 2010 07:00PM)
That's because the quality of the edges and corners of Carta Mundi cards is not up to snuff.

Re: Humidity in the UK -- you are joking, aren't you?
Message: Posted by: Wizard of Oz (Nov 2, 2010 08:35PM)
Speaking of Haines...what a wonderful place. If you are in that area of Ohio, do yourself a favor and visit. It's like going back in time.

Upon my last visit - probably 2 years ago - I needed a couple of shimmed Bicycle cards. They didn't have them in stock, so they asked, "Can you wait a minute?" And they went into the next room where the workshop is, and made them. Brilliant, old school customer service.
Message: Posted by: Merc Man (Nov 4, 2010 02:25PM)
Bill - I can't fault the cut of Carta Mundi Stratus Bridge - if you haven't seen a pack then drop me a PM and I will send you a deck. Personally, I don't like them because of the linen finish.

Blimey, compared with some Bicycle decks I purchased a few years ago I think sandpaper is smoother! Seriously, I think they had been cut with a piece of jagged glass - they were woeful.

Re: Humidity - I said we were hardly known for a humid climate!

That said, so far this November, it's been as mild as September. Must be due to a certain Country not giving a toss about the ozone layer ;)
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Nov 4, 2010 11:02PM)
You are right about that. China and India are really rough on the ozone layer.

There is a Carta Mundi factory in Dallas now. We can get them over here without any difficulty. They are one of the few card companies that USPCCo hasn't bought out.

@Anatole -- regarding "Air Cushion" and "Linen" finish -- the meanings of these terms changed over the years. During the time up to about 1965 or so, the linen finish was basically the same as the Bee brand Cambric finish. Air Cushion was a finish that was found mainly on Bikes. If you held the card at an angle so you could see the reflection of the light off the surface, there were basically lengthwise stripes of rough areas that were about 1/16 of an inch thick. Their other finishes were called "Ivoroid" or "Smooth" finish.

At some point around 1965 or so, USPCCo decided to simplify things. The Air Cushion finish on Bikes was the same as the Linen finsh and the Cambric finish. The "Ivoroid" and "Smooth" finishes became the "Smooth" finish. If you decided to order your own cards from them, you could get them in either finish. You could even get Bikes in smooth finish, but you had to order a lot of them.

Frank Garcia used this to his advantage when he used Blue Ribbon cards.

USPCCo has several different grades of card stock. Sid Radner used to tell everyone that the Bee paper was the best quality they had; however, a friend of mine who worked for USPCCo told me that Congress, which was their best bridge card, had the best paper.

A lot of the trouble with Bikes, especially when you buy them at discount shops, is that sometimes you get the last of the run of the cards, before they resharpen the dies to cut the sheets. This results in cards with rough edges. Those edges make the cards very difficult to faro shuffle.

I'm really sorry that USPCCo bought Fournier. They made some really nice poker cards. They were not easy to faro out of the box, but after about 10 or 15 minutes of faro shuffling, the edges became smoother. The problem was that the edges were basically square, instead of microscopically tapered.
Message: Posted by: Merc Man (Nov 5, 2010 11:52AM)
China with 8% and India with 2% of the World's CO2 emissions? Nope - actually, I was referring to the Country that emits a staggering 30% on it's own! Then again, this particular Country likes being first at everything - so there you go. :)

As for the woeful bikes - I purchased a brick of them via a major UK card supplier and apart from the torn & restored card, they were only fit for the bin (given that I perform a lot of Alex Elmsley's Faro work).

Does anyone know of any U.S. supplier that may still have brick of Fox Lakes in their vaults by any chance?
Message: Posted by: jnrussell (Dec 3, 2010 10:11PM)
I still have my first ID (Fox Lake) purchased in the summer of 1965 at the Houdini Magical Hall of Fame at Niagra Falls. I still use it, and it still works great!
Message: Posted by: J Christensen (Dec 12, 2010 07:05AM)
One nice feature of the old Fox Lake decks was that a deck cost 35 cents in the mid to late fifties when I bought them at Nelson's Magic Shop in Columbus, Ohio.
Message: Posted by: Promagia (Aug 26, 2012 03:41PM)
I love Fox Lake cards. I have a collection of trick decks.
Message: Posted by: Merc Man (Aug 28, 2012 11:15AM)
[quote]
On 2012-08-26 16:41, Promagia wrote:
I love Fox Lake cards. I have a collection of trick decks.
[/quote]

Treat them well fella - they are undoubtedly better than most of the dross sold today!

Just to add that my search for normal, ungaffed Fox Lakes continues - but sadly, to no avail.

I'm just certain that out in this big wide World, somewhere there's a bricks & mortar shop (or in other words, a REAL magic shop) that has a few bricks of them hidden away in a cupboard somewhere, just gathering dust.

Unfortunately, I'm now resigned to the fact that I'm probably just dreaming. :(
Message: Posted by: tomdeg (Nov 7, 2012 01:28PM)
Yep, used many Fox Lake/Aviators bac in the day!
Message: Posted by: kellaroneil (Nov 7, 2012 08:05PM)
I remember having the Fox Lake Four Aces effect.
Message: Posted by: Peter McMillan (Nov 8, 2012 12:33AM)
My preferred deck since 1970 has been Aviator poker and bridge in blue or red. Always felt like a "sincere" deck. Never found a better handling deck. Fox Lake is a very happy memory also.
Message: Posted by: Merc Man (Nov 8, 2012 06:35PM)
Peter,

Come on mate - you can't compare my beloved Fox Lakes with an Aviator Bridge Deck!

Aviator Poker (Mohawk, Torpedo, etc.) aren't a bad Poker-sized deck to use. I read once that Matt Schulien loved these brands as they were dirt cheap and easy to tear, but to compare Fox Lake Bridge with Aviator Bridge..............mate, you are so far wide of the mark.

It's like comparing a Classic Mercedes to a modern-day BMW! One is timeless quality whilst the other is modern-day, mass produced dross. ;)
Message: Posted by: Peter McMillan (Nov 8, 2012 07:21PM)
Merc you may have a good point there. Let me give it some thought.


Humm.....


Aaaaahaaaa.....

(smell of burning rubber)

Nope, have to stick with the Aviator bridge mate. But I did try!:)
Message: Posted by: Russell Davidson (Nov 21, 2012 06:07AM)
Thought this link might interest some of you

http://www.cards4magic.co.uk/acatalog/copy_of_xAviator__Fox_Lake_.html
Message: Posted by: Merc Man (Nov 23, 2012 07:22PM)
Hi Russell,

I visited Cards4Magic quite a few years back and bought their remaining Fox Lakes.

As far as I am aware, the Fox Lake gaffed decks now for sale are actually made up primarily in Aviator Bridge - albeit they are in Fox Lake card cases (you'll note that they also have Fox Lake empty tuck cases for sale).

There's a world of difference between the card stock used for the old Fox Lake cards and Aviator Bridge - but thanks for the 'heads up' mate.
Message: Posted by: Lucien Astor (Jun 23, 2014 05:13PM)
Old thread but... I found a box of old fox lake gaff decks at a garage sale... pop-eye poppers, invisible decks, forcing decks, etc. Any interest?
Message: Posted by: BCS (Jun 24, 2014 09:40AM)
Lucien Astor... congratulations on your find... I have yet to find any magic at a garage sale.

I have to tell you that your Avatar is a favorite... you gave me a good laugh.

Take care,
Bruce
Message: Posted by: Kbuck54 (Jun 25, 2014 03:03PM)
I remember some 40 years ago, while attending our local County 4 H Fair, I saw a gentalmen at a raised booth, he was hawking the FOX LAKE SVEN. DECK and nothing else. I watched for what seemed hours as he went through one routine after another with a new spectator each time. He had throngs of people crowded around his booth.
I ended up buying a red deck and a blue deck. $3.00 a deck if you can believe it. I still have the red deck put away with my other collectables. Not that it is so collectable as the fact that it represents my beginnings in magic.
Ah, the memories flood in.
Keith Shazam
Message: Posted by: Chad Sanborn (Jul 22, 2014 11:37PM)
I remember the old Fox Lake designs! And I love bridge size cards. Much easier for sleight of hand purposes. Not sure why
poker size ever caught on with magicians.
I prefer Tally Ho cards now. But the best cards I ever had were Bee cards. I have a deck that's over 20 years old and will handle better than any card on the market now.
Message: Posted by: ringmaster (Aug 30, 2014 06:12PM)
Remember the FAKO deck and book ?
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Aug 31, 2014 07:27AM)
I just was browsing through threads that I have never looked at before...

Yes! AVIATORS! $.25 per deck! (Abbott's #7 catalog...April 1945...) The catalog page that showed gaff cards had a "mirror" cut. It showed both sides of the various gaffed cards. I learned all the flourishes, fans and shuffles, with a red back Aviator deck. Yes, when I bought "6 Card Repeat" (after seeing Harry Blackstone (pere) the cards were Aviator Bridges.

I learned, years later, that it took an "act of Congress" to get the USPCC to make gaffs from Bikes!

In my late teens, I started working on split fans and was having a problem, until I met Harry Milliken at a Ring 103 meeting when I joined the Navy. Harry explained that POKER size was easier to back P**m, and, white gloves helped. I broke in two poker decks, a blue Fan Back and an Aviator blue. I don't do white glove split fans anymore. (I had soon learned that at age 20, I was NOT "SWAYVE & DEBONER"!!!) but,I STILL USE THE AVIATOR DECK FOR FANCY SHUFFLES AND FANS WHEN I DO THE ROUTINE IN A SHOW!. That's a lot of shows!!!!! (I estimate, over 20,000!)

BTW, USPCC made special Aviators during WWII. Each card had a silhouette of an enemy plane. Service men,and air raid wardens, etc. could learn to identify planes, while they played. I don't remember if they were bridge or poker size.

Reminiscing is fun == at my age! I have been privileged to meet and know just about all of the CARD MEN of the last 50 years. I loved watching them work. I only DO one card trick. I lay out 21 cards in three rows, and then.....hekk, I forgot what comes next.........
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Aug 31, 2014 07:39AM)
Oh! I pitched Sevengalis (That's what Eddie Fields called them!) back when my friend Marshall Brodien was making a million with his TV magic cards.

I bought them (Aviators) from Ronald Haines. I think they cost me 30 cents per deck. I sold them for two bucks. And, yes, I used that ancient 'sure fire' line to turn the tip, when the card ended up in the card box. ("I've seen them tear their underwear getting out their wallets..."

Someday, I'll fire up this "infernal electrisch peckenclacker" and retell Roy Kissell's story of the 'home made' Sevengalis. Maybe, if someone coaxes, begs or pleads, I'll do it sooner than "someday".
Message: Posted by: Merc Man (Sep 9, 2014 04:20AM)
[quote]On Aug 31, 2014, Dick Oslund wrote:
Someday, I'll fire up this "infernal electrisch peckenclacker" and retell Roy Kissell's story of the 'home made' Sevengalis. Maybe, if someone coaxes, begs or pleads, I'll do it sooner than "someday". [/quote]
Would love to hear that Dick........as would probably many others on this forum; who find such stories so much more enjoyable than reading about the latest brain-fart that's been released as a one-trick DVD.
Message: Posted by: DavidK (Oct 4, 2014 06:50PM)
For anyone who is interested, I have and use for many years three of Haines' House of Cards tricks using Fox Lake Playing Cards. They are:

Svengali Cards (blue backs)
R.W. Hull's Mirage Deck (red backs)
The McCombical Prediction Decks (blue and red backs - 2 sets of cards used)

I also found "Six Card Repeat" which uses the Fox Lake Playing Cards. No maker of trick identified.
Message: Posted by: Merc Man (Nov 1, 2014 08:59PM)
Hi David,

Still using my Fox Lake Brainwave Deck - purchased from Alan Alan around 1979.

Still clean - and NEVER been re-roughed in 35 years.

True Quality is absolutely timeless! ;)
Message: Posted by: DavidK (Nov 2, 2014 02:25PM)
Barry,

I have been performing my six card repeat using the same Fox Lake cards for over 30 years. They are indeed quality cards and the trick has never failed me.
Message: Posted by: trickbooks (Oct 2, 2017 10:19PM)
For those of you interested in Fox Lake cards, we've put together an interesting history on Propelled Pasteboards, the Throwing Card Blog, which you can find here:

https://throwingcards.blogspot.com/2017/09/fox-lake-playing-cards.html

The post includes a link back to this discussion, as many of you have included such interesting information that it seemed like a valuable addition to the history of Fox Lake magic cards.

Enjoy!
Gary Brown
Message: Posted by: Merc Man (Oct 9, 2017 05:24AM)
Excellent Gary - thanks for the link.

A very enjoyable read.

A little-known fact about the Aviator Bridge back design is that it's actually (albeit inadvertently?) a One Way back. I've only ever had a discussion with one other guy in 40 years, that was aware of it.
Message: Posted by: GlennLawrence (Nov 17, 2017 09:45AM)
I have 3 Fox Lake Decks from many years ago. Haunted pack, Mental Photography Deck, and Cheek-to-Cheek Deck. The Haunted pack I bought with the idea that I might use it in a seance type setting but never happened so I've not used it as of yet. The other 2 I've used pretty rarely so they're in good shape too!

Glenn
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Nov 17, 2017 11:55AM)
[quote]On Sep 9, 2014, Merc Man wrote:
[quote]On Aug 31, 2014, Dick Oslund wrote:
Someday, I'll fire up this "infernal electrisch peckenclacker" and retell Roy Kissell's story of the 'home made' Sevengalis. Maybe, if someone coaxes, begs or pleads, I'll do it sooner than "someday". [/quote]
Would love to hear that Dick........as would probably many others on this forum; who find such stories so much more enjoyable than reading about the latest brain-fart that's been released as a one-trick DVD. [/quote]

I don't know 'why', but I dropped in here this afternoon...I guess the Aviator, & Fox Lake, sucked me in.....

Yeah, scroll back a "few", and, I wrote a couple posts. When I reread those two years old notes, I was reminded of my late pal, Roy Kissell, gone now, almost 30 years, and, his family. They were carnies. When I first met Roy, almost 50 years ago, he mumbled: "with it?", and I knew he was a member of the "clan"! We immediately got into a "jackpot" session, which, "continued" for almost 30 years!

In my comments in that 2014 thread, I mentioned the Kissell family and "sEvengalis" (as the late Eddie Fields "usta" call 'em.) I hinted at their Svengali pitch, and, was going to return and tell a story or two about their "operation".

Well it's 2 seasons, down the road, so, I had better "give". I can't today, but, very soon, I'll come back on "this lot" and, tip the real work!
Message: Posted by: docguitarman (Jan 4, 2018 08:07PM)
Yep, as an old guy all of my decks in my teen years were Fox Lake! They always raised suspicions, lol , as the group I showed them to were non bridge players -- we were a bunch of poker playing high school kids using bicycle decks !

Recently I got a pack of Fox Lake double backers as a gift with a magic order. A few months later I found some NOS blue and red ungaffed Fox Lakes online. I bought a red and a blue pack to go with the gaff cards. To my dismay the red and blue colors are not an exact match with the double backers.... oh well.
Message: Posted by: Merc Man (Jan 6, 2018 06:57PM)
[quote]On Jan 4, 2018, docguitarman wrote:
Yep, as an old guy all of my decks in my teen years were Fox Lake! They always raised suspicions, lol , as the group I showed them to were non bridge players -- we were a bunch of poker playing high school kids using bicycle decks !

Recently I got a pack of Fox Lake double backers as a gift with a magic order. A few months later I found some NOS blue and red ungaffed Fox Lakes online. I bought a red and a blue pack to go with the gaff cards. To my dismay the red and blue colors are not an exact match with the double backers.... oh well. [/quote]
Ken Brooke used to market a packet trick called 'Wild Man Wild' by Hans Trixer.

Speaking in his studio one day, he said a few had been returned because the Double Backers did not match shade-wise the red-backed regular Jokers supplied with the trick.

Ken's words to us were along the lines of he'd performed the trick many, many times for the paying public (along with Bruce Cervon's Dirty Deal, it was his favourite) over the past 5 years. He said quite honestly, NOT ONCE had he been called on this by a spectator; and that sometimes magicians worry about problems that don't really exist.

To this end, just crack on and give them a go. Nobody is going to shoot you for it! If the effect, and your presentation are strong enough (and you don't let it worry YOU - so you don't telegraph a problem), you may just be pleasantly surprised at the outcome.

;)
Message: Posted by: docguitarman (Jan 6, 2018 07:19PM)
Thanks Merc Man!

I just took them out of their boxes again and on second look, though I can easily see the different shades, esp. in a spread (the DBs are darker), I now think they might be close enough !
Message: Posted by: docguitarman (Oct 14, 2018 01:57PM)
As an update playing card decks now has "Caravan" decks that are Fox Lake backs.
Message: Posted by: tincture (Oct 21, 2018 08:32AM)
Reading through this brought back memories! Fox Lake playing for those of us who have been around a while were THE card the shops carried. Now we're lucky enough to find anyone under a certain age that even knows what the game of Bridge is!
Message: Posted by: Wravyn (Oct 21, 2018 09:43AM)
Just recently pulled out of a drawer, Nick Trost’s Fly Circus. Seeing those bridge sized red back Aviator back design sure brought many well spent hours at the magic shop memories.
Message: Posted by: Merc Man (Oct 22, 2018 04:50AM)
[quote]On Oct 14, 2018, docguitarman wrote:
As an update playing card decks now has "Caravan" decks that are Fox Lake backs. [/quote]
Unless they sell a Bridge Size Pack, I think the Caravan brand are using the Aviator Poker Size back design - quite different from the Fox Lake/Aviator Bridge back design?
Message: Posted by: docguitarman (Oct 22, 2018 09:17AM)
[quote]On Oct 22, 2018, Merc Man wrote:
[quote]On Oct 14, 2018, docguitarman wrote:
As an update playing card decks now has "Caravan" decks that are Fox Lake backs. [/quote]
Unless they sell a Bridge Size Pack, I think the Caravan brand are using the Aviator Poker Size back design - quite different from the Fox Lake/Aviator Bridge back design? [/quote]


I ordered two sets. Bridge size and same backs as Fox Lake. Here is the photo.
https://playingcarddecks.com/products/caravan-2-deck-set-budget-playing-cards
Message: Posted by: Peter McMillan (Feb 19, 2019 02:43PM)
Looks like I am too late to get these Caravan decks, on the notification list if they get them back in stock. Life moves on, but does that mean getting rid of a great product? Guess I will have to get the full use of all the deck’s I have left. Oh well.......
Message: Posted by: docguitarman (Feb 19, 2019 05:35PM)
[quote]On Feb 19, 2019, Peter McMillan wrote:
Looks like I am too late to get these Caravan decks, on the notification list if they get them back in stock. Life moves on, but does that mean getting rid of a great product? Guess I will have to get the full use of all the deck’s I have left. Oh well....... [/quote]
I'm one of the culprits who contributed to the sell out. I saw the inventory was getting low and bought another 3 sets in January. They went pretty fast. I do hope Will restocks them as I want to make up some more trick decks of my own.

Phil D.
Message: Posted by: Peter McMillan (Feb 19, 2019 09:23PM)
Perhaps with both of us purchasing them he will order up a couple of extra bricks to go around. My love of these go back to 1970 when I got in really working card routines. Aviator just seemed right in the fit and feel. Thank you for the site to possibly get restocked Phil.

Pete