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Topic: Cold reading / Trade Craft
Message: Posted by: Sir T (Apr 12, 2002 06:14PM)
Hello,

I was surfing looking for a few items, when I ran across a book entitled: Tradecraft - The Art and Science of Cold Reading by Trickshop.com inc. It is 50 pages long and makes some pretty big claims. Anyone have this book or heard about it?

Just wondering, but I think, I will just have to stick with the full facts for now.

Kevin :kitty:
Message: Posted by: fordkross (Apr 13, 2002 07:49AM)
Yes, I have read it. While much slimmer than Full Facts, and unlike FF it contains material I have not seen elsewhere. Reccomended.
from
Ford
Message: Posted by: MANDRAGORE (Apr 13, 2002 11:18AM)
i have it, i agree with fordkross, it is very good and it gives a verygood and basic idea of what cold reading is. the FF is a must to have, this is the cold reading bible.

ben
Message: Posted by: evsp (Apr 14, 2002 10:27PM)
Please advise a cold-reading newbie about FF. Where available, contents, author, etc.?
Message: Posted by: ddyment (Apr 15, 2002 01:09AM)
The Full Facts Book of Cold Reading is Ian Rowland's definitive book on the subject. Learn even half the stuff in this book and you'll be a better reader than most of those out there.

It's currently out of print, unfortunately, but keep an eye on Ian's Website ([url]http://www.ian-rowland.com/[/url]), and you'll find out about the next edition.

... Doug
Message: Posted by: pradip_rao (Apr 15, 2002 04:15AM)
I was wondering which one to buy. It looks like I will have to buy both - FF (when available) as well as Tradecraft.

Incidently, Tradecraft is also available in an instantly downloadable online e-book version. See http://www.trickshop.com for details.
Message: Posted by: Tony Razzano (Apr 15, 2002 07:16AM)
Ian's book is THE book to have on cold reading.
Best regards,
Tony Razzano
Message: Posted by: brownbomber (Apr 15, 2002 11:18AM)
How long will we have to wait for the new edition of Ian's book though? I'm sure there are lot of us impatient souls out here! :bunny:
Message: Posted by: MarkAllison (Apr 15, 2002 11:50AM)
To add to the general comments here, Ian's book is a great resource on cold reading.

However, cold reading is something that requires lots of practise to become good at. You can't read Ian's book (or anyone elses for that matter) and immediately become expert at cold reading.

Cheers

Mark
Message: Posted by: Alex Reeve (Apr 16, 2002 04:58AM)
tradecraft is a good book.

But as mark pointed out you just can't read book and become a good cold reader. you have to practice a lot.

the books will bring you in the right direction to start doing it, but cold reading is mostly based on observation and interaction. So look at peoples and talk to them and ask yourself what can you say about this person.

In order to be good we have to practice a lot, like everything else we do
Message: Posted by: fordkross (Apr 16, 2002 11:49AM)
It's only my opinion, but there are some things you only learn by doing. Hypnotism, contact mind reading and cold reading or psychic reading. There are a couple of audio tapes available, and two videos, but only available to PEA members, I believe. But if you really want to study the subject, go to readers and turn your memory and analysis chip on
from
Ford
Message: Posted by: mysticz (Apr 16, 2002 12:06PM)
FF is a great resource book, as are Ford Kross' publications and Richard Webster's various works on the subject. However, after digesting the fundamentals of what constitutes "cold reading," the next thing to do is to spend a considerable amount of time researching and then thoroughly learning one or more divination systems. At this point, you will be just beginning to walk that winding path to becoming a credible psychic reader.

Don't ever believe the often touted line this is a process that can be learned in a short period of time. I've found the best "cold"/psychic readers to be those individuals who constantly hone their skills through continued study of technique, psychology, related literature, and most of all, practical application through the performance of psychic readings.

Like magic, cold reading in all its applications is a craft whose ultimate attainment demands a lifetime dedication and commitment.
Message: Posted by: Andrewdavidson12 (Apr 16, 2002 02:49PM)
FF is definitely the bible but Tradecraft is good too.

One way of practicing that I use is to go into an internet chat room (preferably one with a psychic or new age theme) and offer to do readings.

I have had some amazing results.

It's not as good as being in a position to do a personal reading but it does mean that you can have Ian's book open alongside you as you give a reading!

Andrew
Message: Posted by: Mikael Eriksson (Apr 17, 2002 04:23AM)
I actually made the decision and bought the e-book version of Tradecraft. Hereīs a short review.

Positive: One of itīs ideas was one that I myself have incorporated. An idea thatīs not so much written about to my knowledge.

It gave me another idea which I did not have before.

Negative: One of the subjects in the book was hard to follow. My opinion is that if you donīt have an insight into certain psychological terms, that part of the book can be hard to understand.

The questions in the question chapter. I can bet a large amount of money that they were either directly copied from one of Herb Dewieīs books, or only changed very slightly. I recognized it immediately, and that turned me off a bit.

On the whole I think it is an interesting book, worth buying. I really think it can only make you a better reader if you read as much as you can about it, and from different points of view.

PS It would be interesting to know who wrote it, and how they came up with what is written inside. It contains no information about that.

Mikael
Message: Posted by: Paradox (Sep 8, 2002 01:56PM)
I have a severe problem with TRADECRAFT. I bought it, downloaded the ebook version, read thru it one, then tried to print it out. I couldn't; not enough memory or something like that.
Then I tried to bring it up again and was FORBIDDED TO OPEN THE FILE WITHOUT A PASSWORD!!!!
Naturally I IMMEDIATELY emailed Trickshop to complain, but have received no word back at of yet.
So I have the book, have read it once, and CAN'T read it again! Anyone got the password?
Message: Posted by: Jim Reynolds (Sep 8, 2002 02:15PM)
I believe the password is unique for each buyer. Unless you chose the option of unlimited downloads, you are only given one chance to download it and print (I personally do not like that for the reasons you just gave) So using anothers password won't work.

You may want to contact digibuy at support@digibuy.com, since they are the ones responsible for the technical aspects of this e-book. Also, make sure that you have the lastest version of Acrobat.

Let us know how it turns out.
Message: Posted by: McCritical (Sep 9, 2002 01:13AM)
[quote]
On 2002-09-08 14:56, Paradox wrote:
I have a severe problem with TRADECRAFT. I bought it, downloaded the ebook version, read thru it one, then tried to print it out. I couldn't; not enough memory or something like that.
Then I tried to bring it up again and was FORBIDDED TO OPEN THE FILE WITHOUT A PASSWORD!!!!
Naturally I IMMEDIATELY emailed Trickshop to complain, but have received no word back at of yet.
So I have the book, have read it once, and CAN'T read it again! Anyone got the password?
[/quote]

If I remember correctly, the password should have been e-mailed to you.

I suggest that once you get your password that you rename your tradecraft file to that of your password (ex: if the password for the Tradecraft file is PA55W3RD, you would rename Tradecraft.pdf to PA55W3RD.pdf)

I also suggest you attempt printing a few pages (like 10) at a time, this should make things a little easier on your RAM. PDF pages with photos usually take a long time (and a lot of memory) to print.
Message: Posted by: Paradox (Sep 9, 2002 08:04AM)
Hold everything! All is well---I emailed Trickshop & they gave me the password, which I WROTE DOWN this time (!)
Someone else also suggested I print 10 pages at a time. I did that & it worked fine. I now have a complete copy of the book. Thanks to everyone for their help.
Now! The book itself. It makes a terminology error at the beginning. It defines ALL reading as "cold reading". "Cold reading", by definition, is where you have ABSOLUTELY NO information about your client. They sit downm in front of you, you observe them & start reading.
The boiok also talke about "warm" reading". In all my experience in doing readings (I was on the Psychic Friends Network for 3+ years, plus doing many orivate readings locally), I never heard this term.
The basic idea in cold reading is to try out open ended statements, then gradually close off the open ends that don't fit the client by carefully and rapidly observing the client's reactions to your statements. Using generalities that tend to fit everyone is a slightly different technique and the two are often confused. Studying & learning actual divination systems is a VERY good idea, as is becoming familiar with Nondirective (Rogerian) therapy, of which more later.
Message: Posted by: Darmoe (Sep 10, 2002 02:52PM)
[quote]
On 2002-09-09 09:04, Paradox wrote:
Hold everything! All is well---I emailed Trickshop & they gave me the password, which I WROTE DOWN this time (!)
Someone else also suggested I print 10 pages at a time. I did that & it worked fine. I now have a complete copy of the book. Thanks to everyone for their help.
Now! The book itself. It makes a terminology error at the beginning. It defines ALL reading as "cold reading". "Cold reading", by definition, is where you have ABSOLUTELY NO information about your client. They sit downm in front of you, you observe them & start reading.
The boiok also talke about "warm" reading". In all my experience in doing readings (I was on the Psychic Friends Network for 3+ years, plus doing many orivate readings locally), I never heard this term.
The basic idea in cold reading is to try out open ended statements, then gradually close off the open ends that don't fit the client by carefully and rapidly observing the client's reactions to your statements. Using generalities that tend to fit everyone is a slightly different technique and the two are often confused. Studying & learning actual divination systems is a VERY good idea, as is becoming familiar with Nondirective (Rogerian) therapy, of which more later.




[/quote]

:eek: Don't be telling "Magicians" this kind of stuff... we need to keep our secrets away from them :rotf:

You are quite right a "Cold Reading" is in fact, a Reading done without any details. What confuses the term is that the magic world has applied it to "profile" statements such as are found in the old canned response manuscripts of Robert Nelson fame or the more up-to-date profiles found in the works of Herb Dewey & Co. in "Psycho-Babble" and "Red Hot Cold Readings."

Technically speaking, to know the metaphoric meaning behind any symbol; colors, patterns, animals, plant life, direction, etc. Is to know the "Cold Read" or "Profile" data around such e.g. any and all acts of divination such as the legit use of the Tarot, Runes and other such oracles is now seen as being "Cold Reading" (according to Saint Randi and the mignions of CSICop and other such skeptic's societies... in other words, group consciousness and public understanding of the term now supports (lends proof) to what they want everyone to believe and accept... :yawn: )

"Warm" Readings is a relatively new term (I don't think it's been applicable for more then about ten years now.) It relates to situations where you have some insight. In the good old days a Reader would keep records on clients; a customer form filled out by the client with tons of personal info that can be expanded upon via some simple reseach. Too, you keep either notes or recordings of each session for review, which can be used in a number of ways during future sessions.

There are other terms that have surfaced of late... even John Edward gave a spill a few months ago that addressed all this lingo and "explanations" as to how he does what he does, pointing out how much money he'd need to support this massive staff of people that would keep their mouths shut for one reason or another (along with a brute squade that insured their silence), etc.

Anywho... hope this clears up a few things :kermit:
Message: Posted by: McCritical (Sep 10, 2002 07:25PM)
[quote]
On 2002-09-09 09:04, Paradox wrote:
Studying & learning actual divination systems is a VERY good idea, as is becoming familiar with Nondirective (Rogerian) therapy, of which more later.[/quote]

The ultimate interactive primer to Rogerian therapy is a nifty little freeware program that has been around (in several forms) for years (since 1966).

Do a search for Joseph Weizenbaum's "Eliza" for your particular OS and try the program. You'll see a few of the principles at work. After awhile, the program gets tiresome (if not outright annoying) but it reveals a simple fact: If a computer can do it somewhat convincingly (a few folk have been fooled into thinking Eliza was a real person--you may run across a few transcripts in your search), a real live boy can probably knock your socks off.
Message: Posted by: Paradox (Sep 10, 2002 08:16PM)
Thanks for the Eliza reference.
Unfortunately, Eliza is not practicing Rogerian therapy (more properly called "Client-Centered" or "Nondirective" therapy).
She is a parody of it.
Many people over the years have completely misunderstood what Rogerian therapy is all about and any number of parodies and useless imitations have appeared. A lot of people feel that Rogerian therapy merely parrots what the client says to you, the therapist. Not so. One of the most basic things a Rogerian therapist does is try to REFLECT THE FEELING the client is expressing, NOT the content.
You simply don't repeat back to them what they say to you. You DO try to grasp the FEELING the client is expressing and you try to CLARIFY that feeling. If you do this properly, in a nonthreatening situation, the client experiences insight into his/her problem and consequently gets better.
Rogers was one of the first, if not the first, psychotherapist to measure the results of his approach statistically. He was also the first to RECORD sessions so they could be studied later.
I wrote a Yellow Sheet for Bascom on Client-Centered Therapy some years back & I've been thinking about expanding it into a book specifically for readers. The late T.A.Waters, in a personal communication, said that my Yellow Sheet was one of the best things ever to appear in MAGICK, so perhaps the time has come....
Message: Posted by: crouter (Sep 10, 2002 09:06PM)
Carl Rogers and a friend went duck hunting one day. After sitting there for hours a lone duck flew over head. Both shot at the duck at the same time. As the duck fell Rogers looked at his friend and said "You feel it's your duck!"
Message: Posted by: Paradox (Sep 11, 2002 04:45PM)
Thanks, Crouter, for reminding me of the famous Rogers Duck Story. I first heard it on some tapes of the famous meeting between Rogers & B.F.Skinner. I think it was Skinner who told the story.
I am encouraged to finish cranking out The Rogerian Reader--name subject to change without notice.
Rogers' stuff seems deceptively simple. One basic idea is actually expressed in the Skinner joke, "You feel---". Yet it takes a lot of practice to get it right.
A key element seems to be the therapist's (or reader's) sincere conviction that the client has the answer within him/her. You can't really be a heavy, authoritative type, and do Rogers successfully. That's why so many therapists failed when they "tried" Rogers. They felt THEY had the answers, so they "tried" Rogers just for what they considered "light" cases, but went straight back to heavy-handed directiveness when the going got rough.
By the way, even though I got a lot of positive feedback on the Bonus Insert, Bascom distorted it a bit in editing. Therefore, one of my new tasks (if it ever comes out!) will be to try and explain it as simply & directly as possible, and give examples and practice scenarios you can use to develop your own approach.
Whew! Another overlong post! Thanks again for all your kind words. I started expanding it a couple of months back & your input has given me incentive to get back to it.
Message: Posted by: sandman690 (Oct 30, 2002 12:31PM)
Hi,

Just one more vote for Tradecraft. I purchased it last week and was rather impressed. Some of the ideas were new and may well add to my skills.

Stan :cool:
Message: Posted by: NelsonMon (Oct 30, 2002 07:19PM)
I just purchased the Tradecraft Coldreading manuscript also and I felt it was really worth its price. Chapter 2 really had an impressive breakdown of psychological profile types and the rest of the book had statistical information I had never seen so concisely put together before. I don't have any other books on coldreading either so I don't know how it compares to others.

:pepsi: