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Topic: Does Anyone Ever Really Use Sherwood Engraved Cups?
Message: Posted by: Dale Houck (Aug 14, 2010 06:00PM)
I was wondering if anyone ever [b]really[/b] uses a set of Sherwood engraved cups. They are absolutely beautiful cups, perhaps without equal. It's my understanding that Dai Vernon really used his silver engraved cups, but does anyone perform with the engraved Sherwoods? I have two sets of Sherwood cups; one copper and one silver plated and I really use them. But I have a set of RNT2 church bronze Princess 2 cups that are rare and I can't bring myself even play with them a little bit. The same with a few other rare sets I have. I'm thinking I would feel the same way if I had a set of engraved Sherwood cups.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Aug 14, 2010 06:51PM)
Kent Gunn uses his.
Message: Posted by: Mobius303 (Aug 14, 2010 07:07PM)
What did ya buy em for if you aren't gonna use em?
Kent uses his, Several magicians here in the Cleveland area use theirs. There are people that are using their engraved cups all the time.
Roberto Giobi uses them in lectures.
Mobius
Message: Posted by: Dale Houck (Aug 14, 2010 07:12PM)
[quote]
On 2010-08-14 19:51, Bill Palmer wrote:
Kent Gunn uses his.
[/quote]

You know, I think I knew that and forgot. However Bill, since you are arguably the world's leading expert on cups and balls collections and usage, for you to only think of one person who uses them, that would make me think it's highly unusual. Also, knowing that you are in the envious position of having all the varieties of the engraved cups in the Museum collection, have you ever used any of them? Even once, perhaps at a dinner party?

[quote]
On 2010-08-14 20:07, Mobius303 wrote:
What did ya buy em for if you aren't gonna use em?
Kent uses his, Several magicians here in the Cleveland area use theirs. There are people that are using their engraved cups all the time.
Roberto Giobi uses them in lectures.
Mobius
[/quote]

The cups I'm referring to as not using are rare, perhaps one of only three in existence, so I look at them as an investment. I didn't pay that much for them however. If I buy a set of Sherwood engraved cups, I would intend to use them. They aren't rare, they're just rather expensive. I actually find it encouraging that people around Cleveland actually use theirs. Thanks for the information.
Message: Posted by: Tom G (Aug 14, 2010 08:14PM)
I sold my silver engraved, just because of that. Just never used them.
Message: Posted by: kentfgunn (Aug 14, 2010 09:19PM)
Used them today, as a matter of fact. Did the routine twice for a group of magicians in a Perkins in Denver. My old pal Dave Neighbors was there.

My set, #119, showed up when I was living at 119 Wheeler St. I don't know what that meant at the time and still don't. It was an odd coincidence though.

My set is banged and dented. I toss the cups up in the air as part of the intro to show them empty. I catch them most of the time.

I never have to polish them. I try to run through the routine at least once a week. The sequence I choose to do is a bit movey and requires an old guy, like me, a reasonable amount of practice to keep it performance-ready.

Those silly three little chunks of silver transformed my magic. They've introduced to a world of magicians I'd have never met otherwise. The routine I do was hiding in those cups Brett sent me. To not let them be out and about, as the stars of the show just wouldn't be right.

Denver has a great magic community. They were warm and inviting this fine summer's day. I spent a lovely lunch with them. I missed Gene Gordon though. I hope he's in town next time I roll through.

KG

PS. Bill and those who brought my name up . . . Thanks. It's nice to be noticed!
Message: Posted by: jazzy snazzy (Aug 14, 2010 09:23PM)
But Kent, didn't you hesitate the first time you picked them up?

With a set like that, you would need a routine that involved the production of polishing cloths. Or maybe custom plastic covers like folks do with parlor furniture. Great to behold, scary to hold.
Message: Posted by: kentfgunn (Aug 14, 2010 10:10PM)
Jazzy,

Hesitate . . .

For about a month I just took them out of the bag and asked myself, "What the heck did you do? More than a thousand dollars for a trick I don't perform, what was I thinking?"

Whatever hesitation was there at the beginning is long gone. The three girls are part of the show now.

With a set like these I don't need polishing cloths nor plastic covers. They are simply another set of cups. They're just the cups that found me. I don't understand those who keep their's under glass. I suspect Brett put a little bit of magic into each set. To not let that out is, to me, a far greater crime than a ding or two.

KG
Message: Posted by: jazzy snazzy (Aug 14, 2010 10:58PM)
Cool. That probably makes them more magical.
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Aug 14, 2010 11:25PM)
I sold mine as I didn't like the balance and feel. So used to the Paul Fox cups.
Message: Posted by: Mitch Schneiter (Aug 14, 2010 11:55PM)
[quote]
On 2010-08-15 00:25, Pete Biro wrote:
I sold mine as I didn't like the balance and feel. So used to the Paul Fox cups.
[/quote]

That worked out great for me...thanks Pete!
Message: Posted by: cupsandballsmagic (Aug 15, 2010 04:20AM)
[quote]
On 2010-08-14 19:51, Bill Palmer wrote:
Kent Gunn uses his.
[/quote]

Kent juggles with his! I'm playing, Kent actually creats some real moments of beautiful magic with his...

[/quote]

The cups I'm referring to as not using are rare, perhaps one of only three in existence, so I look at them as an investment.[/quote]

One of the sets of cups I use daily are 1 of only 2 sets in existence. I figure that the use and pleasure I have had out of them would easily exceed any money I made if I sold them anyway.

For a couple of years I was under the impression that there was only ever 1 set made until a set appeared in Bill's museum. They are even more special now, I know I am in the finest of company.

Bri
Message: Posted by: panlives (Aug 16, 2010 09:36AM)
Kent is a brave man.

Truly.

How many others would risk denting their engraved Sherwoods?

I get panic attacks when I fumble with $25 aluminum Cups!
Message: Posted by: walid ahumada (Aug 16, 2010 05:33PM)
John Mendoza also uses his.
Message: Posted by: Sammy J. (Aug 16, 2010 06:32PM)
[quote]
On 2010-08-14 22:19, kentfgunn wrote:
Used them today, as a matter of fact. Did the routine twice for a group of magicians in a Perkins in Denver. My old pal Dave Neighbors was there.

My set, #119, showed up when I was living at 119 Wheeler St. I don't know what that meant at the time and still don't. It was an odd coincidence though.

My set is banged and dented. I toss the cups up in the air as part of the intro to show them empty. I catch them most of the time.

I never have to polish them. I try to run through the routine at least once a week. The sequence I choose to do is a bit movey and requires an old guy, like me, a reasonable amount of practice to keep it performance-ready.

Those silly three little chunks of silver transformed my magic. They've introduced to a world of magicians I'd have never met otherwise. The routine I do was hiding in those cups Brett sent me. To not let them be out and about, as the stars of the show just wouldn't be right.

Denver has a great magic community. They were warm and inviting this fine summer's day. I spent a lovely lunch with them. I missed Gene Gordon though. I hope he's in town next time I roll through.

KG
[/quote]

I was there when Kent performed his Cups and Balls in Denver last Saturday. I had seen him do it at the WMS two years ago.

I could watch that routine every day! It is incredible.

It was a real treat to show up at the weekly luncheon and have someone like Kent there!

Sammy
Message: Posted by: Dale Houck (Aug 16, 2010 06:42PM)
I would love to see Kent's routine in person. I've watched it many times on Youtube and I agree it is amazing. It definitely makes me believe in magic!
Message: Posted by: MickeyPainless (Aug 16, 2010 07:25PM)
Having seen Kent's routine numerous times (which I enjoy [b]every[/b] time), I now watch the looks on magi faces as they GASP in horror when he handles em with lets just say, [b]less[/b] than kid glove care!

If I had a set and didn't have a routine for 'em, I'd drink cheap red wine from 'em instead! ;)

MMc
Message: Posted by: Dougini (Aug 16, 2010 08:52PM)
Wow...$1000 for a set of Cups...man. I'm outta my league here! LOL! I was proud of my Morrissey's...erp!

:)

Doug
Message: Posted by: Mr. Muggle (Aug 17, 2010 04:33AM)
You should still be proud of your Morrisseys - there is nothing wrong with them. ;) You don't have to have expensive cups to entertain.. find value and pride in what you have and USE the tools that you own. To date, my Morriseseys have a larger audience satisfaction rating than my Sherwoods (they were used in more shows over the years).

Unlike Pete, I primarly use my Sherwoods over my PF cups and others I own as I love the weight and balance - but I still use a set of Morrisseys now and again for a routine I can't do with other cups. Every tool has its own 'fit' and 'place' in a magician's toolbox regardless if it's Craftsman, Stanley, Husky or Snap-On.
Message: Posted by: Dougini (Aug 17, 2010 03:35PM)
Thank you Mr.Muggle, I feel better, now. LOL

The Morrissey Cups & Balls set I had were called "Combo", because one could be used as a Chop Cup.

I also had an aluminum set, with little puffy yarn balls, and I got that from Flosso-Hornmann Magic Co, so many years ago.

The great Al Flosso himself ("Stand up STRAIGHT, my boy"! And he'd push the center of your back to help). I took out all my money, he took $10, and stuffed the rest in my pocket. He would NOT take all my money.

All that was lost in the foreclosure. I'll get that Morrissey Combo set again. I liked it. I miss the Al Flosso set. I can never replace that.

Doug
Message: Posted by: Donnie Buckley (Aug 17, 2010 04:35PM)
I think aluminum sets have their place. They are inexpensive, light-weight and easily replaced.
I think sterling silver cups have their place as well.

It's kind of like shoes. Some shoes you wear to work in the yard, others you wear to fine dining. They both serve the same purpose, but my dress shoes cost a lot more and get worn less frequently. Still, I wouldn't buy a pair of shoes that I wouldn't wear.

Actually, cups are probably even more like cars. Some people drive inexpensive cars just to get from point A to point B. Others drive cars that are high performance, or have luxurious features that they cannot live without. Some cars are for utility purposes and others are for show purposes. But they all either [b]are[/b] driven, [b]were[/b] driven, or [b]will get[/b] driven eventually.

I've used Sherwood Engraved cups many times for a routine that included tossing the cups from hand to hand and passing a cup thru the table. Never dropped one once. IMO, If the props are making you hesitant to use them because of their value, then you need to practice your routine until you are sure of yourself. A fella doesn't juggle flaming torches by accident.

I've got two sets of "used but never dropped" Sherwood Engraved cups for sale on the Café right now - although I think one set is sold already.
Message: Posted by: Jeff Haas (Aug 17, 2010 07:53PM)
It would be fun to get paper ice cream cups that match what Ramsay used.
Message: Posted by: dcjames (Aug 17, 2010 08:00PM)
[quote]
On 2010-08-17 20:53, Jeff Haas wrote:
It would be fun to get paper ice cream cups that match what Ramsay used.
[/quote]

Bill has some of those in the museum.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Aug 17, 2010 10:24PM)
I have the last practice set that John Ramsay used.
Message: Posted by: Dougini (Aug 18, 2010 08:16AM)
For what it's worth, I was playing around with three Dixie Cups, and wadded up tissue paper balls. Man, I must need professional help! LOL!

Doug
Message: Posted by: walid ahumada (Aug 18, 2010 03:32PM)
[quote]
On 2010-08-14 19:00, dhouck wrote:
I was wondering if anyone ever [b]really[/b] uses a set of Sherwood engraved cups. They are absolutely beautiful cups, perhaps without equal. It's my understanding that Dai Vernon really used his silver engraved cups, but does anyone perform with the engraved Sherwoods? I have two sets of Sherwood cups; one copper and one silver plated and I really use them. But I have a set of RNT2 church bronze Princess 2 cups that are rare and I can't bring myself even play with them a little bit. The same with a few other rare sets I have. I'm thinking I would feel the same way if I had a set of engraved Sherwood cups.
[/quote]

I have never seen an engraved all Gold plated Silver Cups in action.
Message: Posted by: Dale Houck (Aug 18, 2010 09:00PM)
I have told Brett Sherwood to put me on his list for a set of solid silver engraved cups. He has enough on the list for another run if enough re-confirm. I plan to really use them and, yes Bill, love them!
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Aug 18, 2010 09:49PM)
[quote]
On 2010-08-17 20:53, Jeff Haas wrote:
It would be fun to get paper ice cream cups that match what Ramsay used.
[/quote]

It would be very difficult to find a set of paper ice cream cups that actually match the cups Ramsay used. They were of a size and style that is probably not made any more. The closest thing I have found to them are the ice cream cups that they sell at the Hauptbahnhof in Munich.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Aug 19, 2010 02:10AM)
BTW, the engraved silver Sherwood cups are really good for tea or punch. Don't use the plated ones for this, though. ;)
Message: Posted by: Jeff Haas (Aug 19, 2010 01:52PM)
[quote]
On 2010-08-18 22:49, Bill Palmer wrote:

It would be very difficult to find a set of paper ice cream cups that actually match the cups Ramsay used. They were of a size and style that is probably not made any more. The closest thing I have found to them are the ice cream cups that they sell at the Hauptbahnhof in Munich.
[/quote]

Oh, if someone was motivated enough, you could get them made. They're paper, I'm sure you could get a paper company to make them. The problem would be that you'd have to place a big enough order and you'd end up with thousands of them.
Message: Posted by: Donnie Buckley (Aug 19, 2010 04:19PM)
[quote]
On 2010-08-19 14:52, Jeff Haas wrote:

Oh, if someone was motivated enough, you could get them made. They're paper, I'm sure you could get a paper company to make them. The problem would be that you'd have to place a big enough order and you'd end up with thousands of them.
[/quote]

That seems a little extreme. The charm of Ramsay's cup is that he just painted "found cups". I would guess that if you spent a half hour in the grocery store you could find some paper cups that would be comparable.
I only have the photos in the Galloway book to go on, and Bill has the actual cups in his museum, so I might be off base, but for paper cups with the properties that Ramsay required - you could improvise. Heck you could even use plastic cups today.

And I say this even though I have the tooling that Jake Z made to spin the Pete Biro Ramsay cups out of aluminum.
Message: Posted by: Donnie Buckley (Aug 19, 2010 07:30PM)
So I just ran by my local giant supermarket and discovered that there are some very cute little single serving "ice cream cup" contains these days. I've never seen these before. Starbucks brand and others. 3.6 fl oz.
From what I saw, nothing really resembled a Ramsay cup though. Everything has a tapered wall to the saddle, nothing has a straight wall like the paper cups JR used. But I only looked thru the frozen and dairy sections.
I didn't actually go to the grocer for this reason, but I figured I might as well look while I'm there.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Aug 19, 2010 10:40PM)
[quote]
On 2010-08-19 14:52, Jeff Haas wrote:
[quote]
On 2010-08-18 22:49, Bill Palmer wrote:

It would be very difficult to find a set of paper ice cream cups that actually match the cups Ramsay used. They were of a size and style that is probably not made any more. The closest thing I have found to them are the ice cream cups that they sell at the Hauptbahnhof in Munich.
[/quote]

Oh, if someone was motivated enough, you could get them made. They're paper, I'm sure you could get a paper company to make them. The problem would be that you'd have to place a big enough order and you'd end up with thousands of them.
[/quote]

And that would be missing the entire point of these cups. The whole point of the Ramsay cups is that he basically pulled them out of the dustbin. He could actually use any size cup that had a recessed bottom, such as a Dixie cup or any small ice cream cup. The cups I have that Ramsay actually practiced with are about 2 1/4" tall and about 2 1/4" in diameter at the mouth. The bottom of the cup is about 1/2" deep. The bottom of the cup is about 2" in diameter.

The whole point of these cups is that anyone from the area would have known immediately what they were. This is why IN MY OPINION the manufacture of an aluminum "Ramsay" cup is almost comical. It would be like having an aluminum Dixie cup made.

Ramsay's cups look straight walled in the photos on my web site, because they were sent to me in a box that is really too small for them in one direction. They have a slight taper.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Aug 19, 2010 11:28PM)
[quote]
On 2010-08-14 20:12, dhouck wrote:
[quote]
On 2010-08-14 19:51, Bill Palmer wrote:
Kent Gunn uses his.
[/quote]

You know, I think I knew that and forgot. However Bill, since you are arguably the world's leading expert on cups and balls collections and usage, for you to only think of one person who uses them, that would make me think it's highly unusual. Also, knowing that you are in the envious position of having all the varieties of the engraved cups in the Museum collection, have you ever used any of them? Even once, perhaps at a dinner party?

[/quote]

I didn't answer this one. I seldom use my engraved cups. I really don't do a three cup routine. I'm working on one, but it's still about six months from being ready to work with. When it's done, though, I'll use whatever set of cups is handy.
Message: Posted by: DomKabala (Aug 20, 2010 11:58AM)
I have a set of copper engraved Sherwoods and I do use them...but as of lately I find myself attracted to my Mini PF copper cups w/ Dirty Blondes and I love to use them more and more... :cups:

Cupsamagically,
Dom :) ;)
Message: Posted by: Dale Houck (Aug 20, 2010 04:56PM)
I hear you! I love the PF minis of all compositions. I think it's interesting that I used to use the full size Monti cups and ended up deciding they were too small. Now I think the even smaller PF minis are perfect.
Message: Posted by: bdekolta (Aug 30, 2010 11:17PM)
I performed for decades with my Ross Bertram cups. Only gave them up in the last five years or so. I got hold of a set of Gary Animal cups and find it hard to go back to the lighter Bertram cup. I picked up a set of Mendoza non-combo cups. I really like how they look but they are just a tad top heavy for my taste.

Back to Bertram I still use a cup from that set when doing a one cup routine. When you look at the set it is quite obvious which of the cups I've used for the one cup routine from the patina.

For the moment I alternate between the Animal Love cups and the non-combo Mendoza cups.

Haven't had a chance to really work with Sherwood cups. Depending on the venue I would use them. The Bertram cups were fetching pretty high prices at one point and were still in my active prop set.

~ Dan
Message: Posted by: conjurormatt (Aug 31, 2010 02:08AM)
Sadly, the Sherwood's are way out of my budget. I am quite happy, however, with a set of RNT II Monti cups that I got on e-bay for only $99. They are a vast improvement over my aluminum cups from India (I actually don't know the brand, I just know that they come in a red wool bag with two green stripes towards the top, and the instructions have a fairly distinctive green cover). Having said that, I know that my aluminum cups will always have a place in my heart as the first "professional" looking cups I owned. Before that, it was the plastic cups and pom poms from the Marshal Brodien kits.
Message: Posted by: Dale Houck (Aug 31, 2010 06:18PM)
Hmmm. Ironically, I just sold a Monti set on ebay for $99 to save up for a set of engraved Sherwood cups. Funny how things like this work out sometimes!

Dale
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mystoffelees (Aug 31, 2010 07:52PM)
I just gotta remember to check ebay every day...
Message: Posted by: runawayjag (Sep 1, 2010 07:49PM)
Someone mentioned that I use mine and that is correct. In public performances I use the Sherwood engraved Silver set when I do the Vernon routine with the penny ending. I just recently purchased a set of gold cups with the Chop cup (4 cups total.) Awhile back I wrote about how overstrong the magnet was in the Sherwood Chop Cup. Apparently, Brett listened because the Chop cup in this gold set is absolutely perfect. It is almost exactly like the magnet in the Tim Star bronze sets I had made for my lecture tour 30 years ago. So, I will probably begin using the gold set whenever I perform the Mendoza Cups & Balls routine which uses a combo set.
Message: Posted by: conjurormatt (Sep 4, 2010 01:25AM)
Yes, in case there was any confusion, I bought the cups from Dale. Glade to have done business with you.
Message: Posted by: Brett Sherwood (Sep 8, 2010 09:21PM)
Hi DHOUCK,
Thanks for asking and yes, I still use the first set of cups I received in 2002!

[img]http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/gg353/BSherwoodMagic/cups1.jpg[/img]

These are my same original prototype set of cups (with antique finish) I first received and they are now eight years old. Obviously, I take care of them, because I respect the artistry that has gone into them, but they were made to be 'workers'!. I STILL get a thrill using them in every show, because they make the manipulations so enjoyable.

To answer your thread question; I know John Mendoza, Eric DeCamps, Kent Gunn, Roberto Giobbi and many more use them regularly, but obviously I have no way of knowing exactly how many, because I doubt they all read your post?

Here is another photo of me performing on board the Celebrity Millennium cruise ship for about 1000 passengers! Yes, they can play BIG!

[img]http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/gg353/BSherwoodMagic/cups2.jpg[/img]

If anyone is interested in a set I may be making another restock near the end of September, so please PM me and I'll be happy to help.

All The Best,
Brett Sherwood
Message: Posted by: Dale Houck (Sep 9, 2010 07:44PM)
Brett,

That antique finish on your cups looks great! I'm looking forward to being the proud owner of a set. There's precious little chance of me ever performing on the Celebrity Millennium, but there are excursion boats on the Biscayne Bay that I watch from my balcony every day. Maybe someday I'll get on board one of them and pretend!

Dale

http://www.dazustudios.com/images/ph208view.jpg
Message: Posted by: dader76 (Jan 2, 2013 09:17AM)
I am coming into this discussion rather late -- two years after the thread -- but have on comment on really ANY cups but especially ones of such value. I have a set of Paul Fox silver plated and really don't use very much but stare at and think about the past. Anyway, when I do use them I use a wooden want with wooden tips as opposed to brass tips or my Ammar mercury want to prevent dings etc. With those Sherwood cups I suspect the engraving would actually hide minor dings, but still it's the first one that would be the most painful. So use a want that protects the cups a bit and if anyone has a set they're too anxious to use, just let me know!!
Message: Posted by: Larry Barnowsky (Jan 3, 2013 09:27AM)
I use my engraved silver cups all the time. Fortunately, the routine I use (from my book) does not require any violent banging of the cups and I do use a wooden wand with wooden tips. They are beautiful cups that should be used and not just displayed.

Larry :readingbook:
Message: Posted by: Rainboguy (Jan 3, 2013 09:46AM)
Brett:

Your antique silver engraved cups remind me of the cups that Dai Vernon used.
Message: Posted by: fortasse (Jan 3, 2013 12:55PM)
I continue to be perplexed over why anyone would have to whack their cups hard enough to leave dents in them. Silver, I know, is a soft metal and dents easily but still.....

The same thing applies to other cups of lesser metals. Why would anyone want to bounce a set of Gary Animal Cups or Phoenix Cups or whatever else off of concrete or beat the living c#@* out of them with a wand? Just because something is built like a tank doesn't mean that you have to go around crashing it! Sounds like something a bit screwy is going on there. And if perchance it's some sort of misdirection thing, there are a lot better ways to achieve it.

Anyway, to each his own, I guess.

Fortasse
Message: Posted by: Chessmann (Jan 3, 2013 02:30PM)
I don't perform the cups and balls very often, but I used to have a number of cup sets in addition to my silver/gold Sherwoods and sold them all but the Sherwoods. Just not inclinded to perform with any of the others. Kind of the opposite of this topic's original question. :)
Message: Posted by: kentfgunn (Jan 3, 2013 05:27PM)
[quote]
On 2013-01-03 10:46, Rainboguy wrote:
Brett:

Your antique silver engraved cups remind me of the cups that Dai Vernon used.
[/quote]

Was that irony?

Or is irony the taste in your mouth after using a rusty spoon?

KG
Message: Posted by: Dougini (Jan 3, 2013 06:19PM)
[quote]
On 2013-01-03 18:27, kentfgunn wrote:
...Or is irony the taste in your mouth after using a rusty spoon?
[/quote]

Nope. :) It's what happens when you use an iron in your lap, without a pad...well, maybe that's called Iron-Thighed... :rolleyes:

Doug
Message: Posted by: kentfgunn (Jan 3, 2013 07:28PM)
Iron-Thighed

Wasn't that a TV show with the Perry Mason guy in a wheelchair?
Message: Posted by: Christopher Lyle (Jan 4, 2013 01:20AM)
The ONLY TIME I have ever handled a set of engraved cups was at Bill Palmer's home. I felt angels falling from heaven playing their harps when I touched them. He said I could mess around with them but I was too darn scared to! lol

I recently purchased the Antique Copper Bronze Cups and LOVE THEM!

[img]http://sherwoodmagic.com/images2/antique_bronze/antique_copper_bronze.jpg[/img]

I use them every night in my restaurants and they get a great response. I did drop one on the floor one night and had a heart attack but there wasn't even a ding in it. Phew! :)
Message: Posted by: Lawrence O (Jan 4, 2013 12:49PM)
For 50 years I've been using extensively spun steel Paul Fox cups that I bought from Jeff Busby and they are still immaculate and without a scratch (let alone a bump naturally).

So I don't understand why some perfomer would buy nice cups and religiously leave them on a shelf, just by fear of dammaging them by repeated performances.

Brett Sherwood is doing magificent cups... but not to put them on a shelf. I did look at Kent Gunn's cups (an he uses it extensively) and they were still pristine.

My point is: buy nice cups and use them.
Message: Posted by: cirrus (Jan 4, 2013 01:48PM)
I bought sisti cups and they are going to be worked (they are workers, so it's logical). I love the feel of them. One day I hope to own sherwood cups...
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Jan 4, 2013 03:36PM)
IMO, The worst thing you can do is to buy something wonderful and do nothing with it except set it on a shelf.

Use your wonderful props! They want to be used!!! They want to be "real".

I was convinced of this when I read the [i]Velveteen Rabbit[/i] to my children.

[quote]

“What is REAL?" asked the Velveteen Rabbit one day... "Does it mean having things that buzz inside you and a stick-out handle?"

"Real isn't how you are made," said the Skin Horse. "It's a thing that happens to you. When [someone] loves you for a long, long time, not just to play with, but REALLY loves you, then you become Real."

"Does it hurt?" asked the Rabbit.

"Sometimes," said the Skin Horse, for he was always truthful. "When you are Real you don't mind being hurt."

"Does it happen all at once, like being wound up," he asked, "or bit by bit?"

"It doesn't happen all at once," said the Skin Horse. "You become. It takes a long time. That's why it doesn't often happen to people who break easily, or have sharp edges, or who have to be carefully kept.

"Generally, by the time you are Real, most of your hair has been loved off, and your eyes drop out and you get loose in the joints and very shabby. But these things don't matter at all, because once you are Real you can't be ugly, except to people who don't understand... once you are Real you can't become unreal again. It lasts for always.”

[/quote]

Now be like Kent and go use your damm cups!!!
Message: Posted by: Dale Houck (Jan 4, 2013 06:27PM)
When I first posted my question in 2010, I had fifty or so sets of cups and almost two hundred chop cups. You can't use them all but sometimes you can't help but want to own them all. Since that original post, I did order a set of the antique engraved Sherwood cups and today it's one of only two full size sets of commercial cups I own. The other is a set of Rings 'N Things Montis in church bronze and it is languishing on ebay with 26 watchers and no takers. I'm trying to become a minimalist and it's getting easier but I recently parted with my Sherwood copper cups and there was nothing easy about that. The same for my RNT2 PF mini silver cups.

The Sherwood cups have been well used since they arrived but I never used the chop cup so I sold it. There are so many things bought by magicians and never used that I was looking for input on whether or not people used their Sherwood engraved cups to help me make my decision to purchase or not purchase. Of course that's only what I want to believe. In the end, if I wanted something I bought it anyway and that's a hard habit to change. I think we all make cogntive consonace or cognitive dissonance work the way we want if we're honest with ourselves.
Message: Posted by: Jon Blakeney (Jan 4, 2013 09:42PM)
I use my engraved brass sherwoods with pride,at every chance I get.
If ya got em ,flaunt em I say.
Message: Posted by: Mike Segal (Jan 5, 2013 09:48PM)
I use my Gold/Silver engraved for 'prestige' type shows, videos promo photos. These are by far the best cups I've ever used, in my opinion (and others too, it seems)

However, I also now have a set of the non-engraved copper Sherwoods, and I use those almost everyday.
The cup's dimensions, size and weight just seem to work best for me of all the sets I have.
Message: Posted by: Ray Haining (Jan 6, 2013 06:32PM)
I think one's hand size has something to do with which cups one finds comfortable. I think those with larger hands would find the Sherwood cups comfortable. Those with smaller hands would maybe find Paul Fox/Sisti style cups more to their liking. Can't beat those tennis-ball-size loads though.
Message: Posted by: Dave V (Jan 8, 2013 01:21AM)
Agreed. People get caught up in cup size, trying to emulate one performer who has learned how to handle large cups and has the crowds to support it. The rest of us mortals should use what works for [i]us[/i] not what we think would make us "successful"

I started with Super Animals (pictured in my avatar) and ended up scaling back to tennis ball size cups as they fit better in my hand and I could comfortably pick up a cup without fear of flashing or dropping a palmed ball.

So what that I don't use jumbo oranges. Mediums do just as well.
Message: Posted by: mydogripper (Jan 8, 2013 06:56AM)
I use mine every show I do
Message: Posted by: Tom Fenton (Jan 8, 2013 11:21AM)
Dave, I didn't know that Mediums perform the cups & balls.
I thought they got in touch with spirits.

Sorry, couldn't resist.
Message: Posted by: Lawrence O (Jan 9, 2013 01:01PM)
Hello Tom,

Al Koran had a crumpled bill placed under three cups and would tell, without having looked at the mixing, where the ball is. So there were mediums performing the C&B trick with medium (or small impromptu) cups

;)
Message: Posted by: Tom Fenton (Jan 10, 2013 11:57AM)
Merci mon ami.
Message: Posted by: Hookem (Feb 27, 2019 01:04AM)
I performed with the engraved silvers at home but don't travel with them. I have four other sets and use them for travel.
Message: Posted by: Al Kazam the Magic Man (Feb 28, 2019 06:52AM)
I use my brass engraved set when I do the c&b.
Message: Posted by: drmolarmagic (Feb 28, 2019 08:36AM)
Every scratch and ding in a set of cups is a marker for an event in practice or performance that helps build your history as a performer.
Use them, enjoy them and you audiences will enjoy them and your pleasure while performing with them as well.
Bruce
Message: Posted by: plungerman (Mar 23, 2020 02:38PM)
To Dale Houck

It is surprising to hear that you have so many sets and only now are asking about whether to use expensive sets. I have (too) many as well and find that each fit a need or solved a problem at the time. If the market was not so soft I would get rid of most of them. When Bill pointed out to me that one of my sets was from Connie Hayden they went straight to a bigger collector. No mortgage payment is going to sit in my drawer.

As for Sherwood I ended up with a set of smooth silvers cheap via a lucky By-It-Now on eBay years ago. Since there are only ten of those I'll likely keep them around. Using smooth copper Sherwoods set me up to pull the trigger on the Silver Engraved when they came around. Nothing beats them for weight and feel. I would certainly use them all the time if the need arose and I'd be sure to have a wooden wand for tapping them.

For me the all silver engraved is the right blend between the interesting and not too distracting which is the silver with gold beads. I say that now but will probably end up getting a set in a month. That's the collecting bug.

Go ahead and use the valuable cups for what they are built for. They can earn their lumps.

P
Message: Posted by: Andrew Zuber (Mar 23, 2020 02:49PM)
I had a great chat with Tom Frank about this at the castle a few weeks ago. I own a set of Sherwoods and they are the finest set of cups I've ever held. That said I almost exclusively use a set of mini Paul Fox cups because they fit in the small case I carry - they're a phenomenal set but size is the number one reason I use them.
Tom uses his engraved set and if you've seen him do the cups and balls, he really goes for it. It's entertaining and the cups aren't pristine, but that's not the point. It's like buying a Stradivarius and not playing it. I'm going to start using mine whenever I can.
Message: Posted by: Dale Houck (Apr 18, 2020 05:11PM)
Plungerman: I made that post ten years ago. I have a magic parlor in my Air B&B now and used the Sherwood engraved cups several times a week until the Pandemic came along. Mostly though, my go to cups depend on what size load I want: Riser Jumbos for baseballs, Rings N Things (Donnie era) Phoenix 2 cups in black chrome for tennis balls, Rings N Things (Donnie era) copper Paul Fox cups for Fab Fruit and Riser Minis for golf balls. In my magic parlor, I use the Sherwoods for the bling :)