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Topic: Is hypnosis old hat?
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Aug 24, 2010 06:12AM)
Here is a thought I hate to throw out there, but I am interested in your views.
As August has been a bit quiet I have reverted to my old hobby of journalism, and have been hanging out with journalists. The talk turned to magic and one guy mentioned Keith Barry, Irish magician, mentalist and hypnotist. He said that Keith was going backwards with his new show, featuring hypnosis. He said that it had been done to death, and people aren't interested any more.
He said that after Paul McKenna did it to death on television people have moved on, and it is now seen as an old fashioned act, out of keeping with the times.
By coincidence I was involved in two big promotions over the summer, and neither drew the crowds we expected. Is he right?
If he is, what can we do to change the image?
I know in resort venues hypnosis is a big hit, but I haven't seen anyone do a major theatre tour over here in years.
Message: Posted by: Pakar Ilusi (Aug 24, 2010 06:18AM)
Wait ten years, it becomes new hat.

Things are funny that way...

Or do what Derren Brown does, don't show the Hypnosis part... ;)
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Aug 24, 2010 06:33AM)
I think Keith Barry's ticket sales answer that. He did 20 straight gigs in a large venue? Is that not a theatre tour? I believe he has also toured the country with similar success. I am as you know doing a run at the Fringe. And my experiences so far is that most if not all of the youngsters haven't seen a hypnotist. And their reactions have been pretty good.

Its been a real struggle but the Fringe is the wrong time too much happening and the main target "students" are away this time of year. None the less we got around 300 attend the first show which is ok for the festival. Many big names don't get that. However I would never do the festival again or recommend it. Number went to around 150 second show. Still ok for the festival. We had a problem with the sound system and had to stop show early in first night. I think this damaged further sales. I have one last show this Friday.

I don't know yet if there is a big market for sure. But my gut feeling is telling me there is for the right kind of marketing and show. I think it is new hat with the youngsters. I also got some people turn up from my old shows..

Mentalism is trendy just now.( that will wane eventually too) Hypnosis needs someone to make it trendy again. During the break I was swamped by young women seriously. (I wish I was 20 years younger).

I was surprised at the general reaction they had it was obviously fresh to them. Also the recession has meant pubs clubs don't book entertainment including hypnotists. I think this is a good thing since no one is seeing hypnotists. It was more to do with the sheer number of hypnotists I think that killed it. But now those small guys can't get in. People go to see theatre. Perhaps the hybrid of hypnosis and mentalism is the way to reintroduce it into the market. Its obviously working very well for Keith Barry and Ken Webster.

But perhaps it needs more personality and better marketing and material than it used to.
Message: Posted by: Anthony Jacquin (Aug 24, 2010 08:25AM)
[quote]
On 2010-08-24 07:33, mindpunisher wrote:
Number went to around 150 second show. Still ok for the festival. We had a problem with the sound system and had to stop show early in first night. I think this damaged further sales. I have one last show this Friday.
[/quote]

Welcome back.

'around 150'? Ouch. That must have felt a bit chilly in the 1200 seater venue. I am interested how you are framing that as OK?

Sound failure! That is terrible luck. I assume you did a sound check?? What was the problem exactly?

What part of your marketing strategy have you changed to give yourself the best chance this week? Good luck with Friday.

It would be great to read some reviews. Of the second show. Can you point me to some?

Anthony
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Aug 24, 2010 09:04AM)
This was 600 seats. The atmosphere was actually buzzing. 300 for festival is quite good. 150 is even quite good. Many big names hire venues of only 100 and don't fill them every night.

The 1200 seater was something planned for october when students are back. I could afford to give away 200 seats and still have 800 seats to fill as full profit. after paying the theatre is was a really good deal. 500 seats would give me around 3k. If I was lucky and sold out more than 10k. To me that looked like a good risk.

Of course this is dependant upon my theory that there is a market out there and these three shows were a test.

I took this opportunity when it came up or it would've passed. But doing shows in the festival was never my intention but I had to grab this opportunity. ?Target market students are away and marketing gets blown away with all the other stuff. In my memory no hypnotist has ever came back a second year. Even big names.

Plus the venue itself the sound issue was only one of many that turned into a bit of a nightmare. They broke agreements changed dates and equity advised me to walk away. Despite that I have stuck with it. I have to agree so far I haven't kicked off on all cylinders. But what has surprised me is the reaction of the young people who have been blown away despite the problems. So although this hasn't proved anything it has sort of stenghtened my belief that this is the case. And there is a market for theatre type shows.

To be totally honest there really is nothing you can do at this late stage with marketing. It has to bedone upfront and first show has to go well. Although believe it or not they have obtained a database with 4000 people who bought chubby Brown and Derren Brown tickets for an eshot. But its too late to make a difference. Too last minute. Why they didn't get this 6 weeks ago defies me.They don't seem to get this and are used to the acts doing all their own marketing etc.

Three weeks in I discover they haven't been doing their part putting up posters in centre of town. I had to jump in to get it back on track then they change dates to try get another act in on one of my dates.(and breaking an agreement) They fail that date still lies empty. I mean they are really all over the place. A big surprise for such a big company. They also get permission to put posters up in al lthe HM ---v stores a week before the show but still it hasn't happened. I mean the resources and the situation I got into is absolutely amazing. But they can't get it together.

October is the time for this students back money in pocket and no festival.

However I put my hands up and tell you the truth of what has happened. We have broke even but not made much money. (actually they financed the whole project) But then that's what the festival is like for most. Marketing during the festival is like ****ing in the wind. Its usually a loss leader for acts to get tv contracts etc.

I don't know of any reviews do a search? Three shows spaced out I guess doesn't really get reviewrs out? I don;t know.

Yes I'm back I promised to post on here no BS results of the festival. I was speaking with Bobser and he said a few were asking. So there you are the truth.

But that's it.

They were talking about trying this in October when students are back etc. But I don't know. As a test the manager still thinks it hasn't been too bad. But after the last show Im not so sure I'll be glad when its over if Im honest. It hasn't been an enjoyable experience.

Me personally I don't think I can stand the stress working with them. So Im not sure what I am going to do after this I shall wait and see.

I don't know if this is any indication that I am doing something right or hyonosis just attracts crazy people. But one guy who was there on the first night. Is travelling from way down south to see the last show. And I've had a couple "fan mail" But I will be honest these have not been "great" shows although there have been some great moments. About 30% capacity of my normal theatre shows.

And I will probably modify the last to accomodate a smaller number. I even had problems a mate who was going to film the bloody show. He wanted to reckie the first. Talk to the sound engineer on the second and film the 3rd. Hense I have missed some really good moments in cluding a really impressive mass rapid induction and the funniest mind reading prostutute Ive ever had. But Im not doing the mass rapid induction again I'm changing the format this week. But hopefully get something on film. They will be out in the streets leafleting. But I can't see much of an upturn.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 24, 2010 09:33AM)
I do not think that any show done well will ever be 'old hat'. I think that there is doing the show, and then there is giving the audience an "experience".

It is simply the performer. If the market is saturated, or people are burned out, go to another place. It is easy.
Message: Posted by: quicknotist (Aug 24, 2010 10:01AM)
I don't pay much attention to journalists.
Unfortunately, they don't pay much attention to me either.

Comedy is what the punters want. I mean fresh, original, topical comedy and improvisation, not the same tired old gags.
Once they are laughing, you can hang just about anything off a well-performed, funny show. Even a few old school Hypnosis skits.

I agree with Mindpunisher about there being a new generation of young audience, but they don't generally hang out in theaters unless it's to see someone "off the telly."

If you can't reach them via the TV then go to where they are. Hit them with a funny, shorter, intimate, attention-span-friendly act and they will eventually follow you to the larger venues too.

Reg
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Aug 24, 2010 10:08AM)
Its true young ones go see someone off the telly. Because they have been exposed to them time and time again. You have to create the exposures through your marketing at the right venue at the right time.

That means six weeks lead up time with posters everywhere. I was in awe of the promoters of the lady boys and chinese circus. You couldn't walk 20 feet without seeing one of their posters from the centre of town way out in into the sticks. Incredible. They get into closed shops and everything.

This is the model to follow. And why the 1200 seater allowing ou to give away 200 tickets to shop owners in key locations to put posters in the window for you.

I know this works I sold out Oedon nearly 1000 seats during mid 90s and had no track record. That is how I did it.

I honestly think t he time is now ripe to do it again. Its just so unfortunate I was forced into the festival which has always been the wrong time. I always sold out for weeks in Oct. I may now not get the opportunity again. So frustrating..
Message: Posted by: Anthony Jacquin (Aug 24, 2010 10:09AM)
Wow. It reads like a catalogue of errors. They let you down badly. I am surprised you left so much to others though. I always think of you as the 'poster guy' who would essentially do the promotion yourself? You have often stressed the importance of not leaving this to chance.

Again, did you do a sound check? I assume so? Jon Chase drills into his students to take no chances on this also as without sound there is no show? It is advice I always follow - get to the back of the room and make sure you can be heard. Have a back up mic. What happened, I assume there was a battery in the microphone?

Anthony
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Aug 24, 2010 10:18AM)
I did a sound check and it sounded ok when it was empty. But when full everybody in the audience could hear me but I couldn't hear myself neither could the volunteers. There were no monitor speakers on stage. With these types of venues you need speakers on stage too. The sound egineer forgot!!! Everyone in the audience heard everything clear. But once on stage it was like havining tinnitus. Volunteers were partially hearing suggestions and not responding properly. Coming out etc. But I still managed a passable first half. But I made an announcement about technical difficulties to make sure they understood it wasn't my fault. Yet another let down from the venue.

Posers ---They told me to keep out of the centre of town since their distribution company were handling the posters. I did the outskirts. But when I checked later I spent three hourse walking into every pub and not one poster. I was livid. Plus the deal didn't pay for me to do any marketing it wasn't a great deal it was stacked in their favour. But I didn't mind as this was a great opportunity and the venu is amazing for hypno shows the way they laid it out. Absolutely brilliant.
This was a test for me at their expense to see if these shows were worth bringing back.

They wasted two weeks chasing another big name act trying to get them into one my dates. During this time I could do any more postering. Eventually I threatened to walk away and they confirmed they would change the last show to a friday. The act they were after got a better deal somewhere else. So that crucial lead up time was screwed for nothing not to mention the stress it caused me.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Aug 24, 2010 10:31AM)
Plus when the festival kicked off all my hard work was blown away within two days...it was impssible to put posters up anywhere they were ripped down and replaced within minutes.

By the way these errors weren't unknown errors I was telling them over and over to sort them out but they wouldn't listen. They thought they could go out in the streets and put out flyers at last minute and people would come!!! It was really doing my head in.
Message: Posted by: Anthony Jacquin (Aug 24, 2010 10:53AM)
Do you provide venues with a technical specification? I find that helps. Even though I do send such a spec, I still check everything is in place personally. Again, that is Jon's influence.

Did you tell him you needed a monitor on stage beforehand?

Anthony
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Aug 24, 2010 10:58AM)
No I didn't tell them because I am not a techie. The sound engineer was supposed to be looking after me. I was being charged 175 a night for him!!!Its his venue he would know that. In the past I have never had that problem so I assume they have always been there. Having said that I know that now. I would never be in that position again.

I had to use their equipment I couldn't use mine wasn't allowed. They do gigs/shows just about everynight I would've thought they knew how to set up something simple for their stage with their own equipment? But ~I think they are used to being told everything by other productions. They don't think for themselves.
Message: Posted by: Anthony Jacquin (Aug 24, 2010 11:14AM)
Just because he is a techie does not mean he can guess your specie.

Not all acts require a monitor on stage. It is your responsibility to tell them before the event, not blame them afterward.

Schoolboy error. Still like you said, you won't make that mistake again.

Anthony
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Aug 24, 2010 11:41AM)
On this stage all acts would need a monitor there is no way of getting a clear sound otherwise. Bands comedians whatever will need monitors unless they are a bloody mime act.

The stage is not usuable without one. I know that now. When its empty it sounds fine once its full you get the problem. I have no way of knowing that. Anyway that's mute point its done now.

The important thing to to take out of this is ---- it hasn't proved one way or another if stage hypnosis is definately worth bringing back. But there is a strong indication that it probably is worth considering. The festival was always going to be a test not the actual big success. And probably best avoided anyway. I all ready knew this.

The chinese circus and lady boys I believe hold the key for those wanting to give this ago without a big name.

Am I going to give this a further go after this? Right now I'm not sure I will wait till after the last show and reflect on it. For my first show in over 10 years I still think its an achievement to have got this far. If this had been in October I am pretty sure the end results would have been a lot different.

Someone already offered me a council hall with capacity for 300 and they are spending 20K on a new stage. And it will cost me more or less nothing to use. But I am sticking to my two golden foundation rules

Location + timing ==== If any of these two basic foundations are violated then it won't work. I had location but time of year was wrong. I think in this new offer the location is wrong.. I think there really is a formula to this if you stick to it theres a good chance you will win big.

Right Im off Ive done what I said I would do. I'm sure a few will have a smile to them selves as to the outcome. But I have just shared information that is very valuable to those that want to give this a go. (Those that have the balls) I hope you appreciate it.

Last post in this
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 24, 2010 05:47PM)
Odds are petty good the sound tech did not ever see a hypnosis show and did not jave the faintest idea that the vomunteers needed to hear you clearly. I am actually shocked that this slipped past you. It is basic, all the speakers point to the audience, no sound on stage.

This is easy to see from my point of view how this is not a reflection on you or your show. I hope your audience was as understanding. That is not fun conditions to find yourself in. I hope you manage to finish strong.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Aug 24, 2010 06:12PM)
The stage can't function without speakers. I know that now. I didn't know that then. It sounded fine when it was empty. However he has worked there for over 10 years. His words were "Im really sorry I forgot". He knew that the stage needed them. I did a bigger venue for nearly three years and there was no need for monitor speakers I used my own sound system. But I wasn't allowed I had to use theirs. Surely they know more about their system than I do. However I've learned a lesson.

In fact Ive learned a hell of a lot in a very short period of time. Crash landing back into performing at the high end takes a lot of guts and persuasive skills. And there are more factors to deal with than can be expressed on a few posts its very stressful and overwhelming you have no idea. But I am probably way ahead of most people because of it. If you are shocked by this getting past me...give it a try you will be shocked a thousand times over at what you have to overcome to even get here. Its not an easy ride and I don't think many could do it. However I did this because I believe thatthere is an opportunity maturing to make a comeback on theatre type shows over here. Of course I might be wrong but I am giving it ago. How many others are? And Im also sharing it here for those that want to give it ago. It would be nice to finish strong 70% of my usual would be all I need. Mind you there are people who have come to both shows and I believe there will be a few that have been to all three so perhaps I'm hyper critical.
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Aug 24, 2010 06:39PM)
Hi Mindpunisher. I am glad that you did the shows, and I hope the last one draws a big crowd and fires you up to try October. Numbers are bound to be down during the festival, because of all the other options people have.

Monitors on the stage are a basic thing, and any sound engineer that left them out is a moron. Although you will be alert for this problem in the future, it is hardly your fault. I once did a show with a DJ providing the sound system. He brought no microphone or CD player. I was screwed.

One of my shows this summer was a co-promotion with a band. We did very heavy postering, newspaper, radio - the whole nine yards. We expected 500. We got 200. Everyone loved the show, but there weren't enough there. Then I headlined the opening night of a local festival. Less than twenty showed up. There were massive problems in the organisation which promoted the show, and that didn't help. But it made me wonder - what is needed to freshen up things?

I think you have to either emphasise the comedy or emphasise the mind-reading. I will try both approaches in October, and see which works best for me.

Best of luck Friday.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Aug 24, 2010 06:54PM)
Or find the right audience and time and market to them. You could also emphasis the "danger" scarey side. If you look at Keith Barry's poster or Derren Brown they look eerie the eyes etc. The fear and uncertainty. that's what my poster was trying to do. But I was doing this in the 90s too. Long before both of them. But its worth noting its working for them.

Also It might be worth picking the right time. For example October floods Edinburgh with students who have money in their pocket at that time. Dark nights verly little competition christmas seems light years away as does summer.

People are easier to target and reach especially the right people. I used work October and didn't need to work the rest of the year If I didn't want to. But I got spin offs from the university circuit who saw me in the "big" venue. I charged more than other local hypnotists too. I gues Im hoping to replicate that now. It would be nice.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 25, 2010 08:39AM)
You do tend to pat yourself on the back LOL.

Hey good onya for trying and jumping back in at a pretty high level. Many (I dare say most) would have tried to "ease" back in with some smaller shows, get the ring rust off, and then hit the bigger places.

Not being afraid to be honest with yourself, and even fail if you have to in order to get to success is really the key. You are definately doing that so again good onya. I wish you the best.

It is tough to imagine that in 10 years of performance on that level it never occured to you about stage speakers!
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Aug 25, 2010 09:31AM)
I don't know about failure Danny. I've already got so much out of this experience. The fact that people are coming back and paying more than once might suggest that I am hyper critical. The shows certainly aren't up to my best standard. But are probably as good if not better than many who do them regularly.

I didn't have to come on here and post all this. The reason I did is so that anyone thinking about this can benefit from my experience. ( yes even the speakers) This was also a test to see if I really want to get back into performing. So from that point of view its been really useful to me. Plus it has possibly opened up an old door that closed a few years back that could lead to something lucrative. Nothing to do with stage hypnosis. So I think really from my point of view it has been worth giving it ago. Even if it doesn't go where I wanted it to go initially.

However I doubt you will ever move out of your comfort zone and give something like this ago. So for you a chuckle is all you will get out of these posts. For those few that want to give it ago there are some valuable pieces of info.

Yes I think I can pat myself on the back over all for even getting this far. Very very few on here could.

As for smaller shows they are virtually non existent in Scotland. Have been for some time. The recession has meant bars and clubs closing down all over the place. And booking entertainment a thing of the past. Certainly very few hypnotists have been around for a long time. However people are flocking to theatre type shows. To me this is may be a good thing since hardly anyone have seen hypnotists here in quite a while. The majority of the younger population haven't seen one at all. Which I believe there may be an opportunity for a good theatre run.

Of course I might be wrong this was a test. However it hasn't proved it one way or another.

By the way my very first 1000 seater I had no idea what was going to happen. I had only been doing shows for a few months. I made lots of mistakes but still sold out the following week. The only difference is I had nearly 4k in the bank as comfort.

Its just the way I do things. This opportunity came up I had to take it or it would have gone. How I got in their in the first place is another story. And how I got them to pay for everything. Well I'm not going to disclose that here.

The biggest flaw in all of this was not sticking to the formula. Going at the wrong time. I knew this even the manager knew this. He sighed when the posters arrived and said later on in the year this would've sold out. He knew too that we had made a mistake going for the festival. However if I had held off they would've went cold on the idea. There are things that went on in the background you don't know about.

Do I really want to go back to performing? Only for the money. If after this I don't see it as earning good money probably not. I do have a passion for other areas of hypnosis but stage doesn't do it for me anymore. I got that out of it too.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Aug 25, 2010 10:14AM)
>>>>It is tough to imagine that in 10 years of performance on that level it never occured to you about stage speakers!<<<<

I know it does haunt me a bit.. I think that made it difficult to come back from...

I'll be glad when its over after Friday LOL.
Message: Posted by: bobser (Aug 25, 2010 10:19AM)
[quote]
On 2010-08-25 10:31, mindpunisher wrote:
Yes I think I can pat myself on the back over all for even getting this far. Very very few on here could.
[/quote].

Y'know, I think you're even more humble since having this experience. xxx
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Aug 25, 2010 10:26AM)
[quote]
On 2010-08-25 11:19, bobser wrote:
[quote]
On 2010-08-25 10:31, mindpunisher wrote:
Yes I think I can pat myself on the back over all for even getting this far. Very very few on here could.
[/quote].

Y'know, I think you're even more humble since having this experience. xxx
[/quote]

It happens to be true though... but it could be because Im totally insane to try it in the first place. I think you have to have your mad moments to do these things. Nest time I'll get a tarot reading first..
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 25, 2010 11:51AM)
[quote]
On 2010-08-25 10:31, mindpunisher wrote:
However I doubt you will ever move out of your comfort zone and give something like this ago. So for you a chuckle is all you will get out of these posts. For those few that want to give it ago there are some valuable pieces of info.

[/quote]

Wow all things ego first huh? First of all, one gets a "comfort zone" by hard work and pioneering it. NOBODY was doing ANY shows where my "comfort zone" is. So I had to move outside it at least once right? Oh naw don't let the truth get in the way here you think what you like.

Second of all, in America they are "Community Theaters" and touring them is not so tough to do. There is a whole convention in January in New York. In otherwords, we do them. OOPS. Once again those pesky little facts.

What you are doing is great. (I know you need that ego gratification.) Seriously as I said stepping in and trying it, and heck taking this show at this festival was a show of guts. NO DOUBT! I am in fact inpressed that it has gone as well as it did. I know in Chicago the "Fringe" was tough to market back in the 90's and in fact I have no idea if it still goes on.

Like I said good for you to go after it, and learn from the past. I can only imagine that going forward will garner better results because you are applying your knowlege from the past. Very smart.

Also it DOES take a certain amount of testicular fortitude to come and admit things not going quite right. I am impressed with your honesty about such things. I really am. (Yes it is mixed with ego and excuses, but you are upfront about it.) I think the forums are littered with stories of success (most of them terribly exaggerated.) and in fact where we make and learn from mistakes is a far more valuable commodity as for learning than those blown up stories. I think it helps far more when you do things like this so thank you.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 25, 2010 11:54AM)
I bet you are going to be shocked by Friday. I think that often a good performer is his own worst critic. (This includes you buddy.) I bet that while it may not have been up to your standards, it was quite good anyhow. Word of mouth should be pretty good.

Give em hell on Friday and knock it out of the park!
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Aug 25, 2010 01:33PM)
I agree with Danny as he is right on the mark about it being refreshing to hear the truths and real world experiences and thoughts of your venture. I think it's only natural to try to find reasons and excuses why it turned out the way it did.

The real truth be told, any professional entertainer has these types of experiences. We must learn to accept them as part of being a professional, and as hard as it may be to try to learn from these experiences and try to remain objective. We all have egos or we would be professional entertainers craving success in the spotlight. You can tell what Danny says, like yourself, only comes with experience. It's simply part of the business.

I wish more people could offer more honest, real world experiences like yours, rather than just success stories or inflated success stories. To me, these offer much more valuable insight, information and lessons to be learned.

I just did a five day run this past week with three full shows per day. Had great turnouts, with only two weaker shows, but it was hard work. One thing about being part of a lineup or festival is that the event gets promoted as a whole, not your show specifically as much as you'd really like or that is necessary in these economic times.

Thanks for the review and good luck with this weeks show, hopefully you will end on a high note. It would be great if you are able to do your full theater experience.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Aug 25, 2010 02:12PM)
2000+ shows in Edinburgh. There really isn't such a thing as a line up. Its more of a dung heap. Ive always known it was a bad time. I was forced into it this time and they assured me they knew how to market during the festival.

Ah well just one more...
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Aug 25, 2010 03:28PM)
Humility is an over-rated quality. I always enjoy your posts here, even when I disagree violently with you. And you are one of those who is always willing to share his knowledge. I am looking forward to reading a post on Saturday describing a big crowd and a great show. Knock 'em dead.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Aug 25, 2010 04:41PM)
Well here's the plan...time for some more objective thinking..

I honestly think its unlikely numbers will increase at this point. (from experience). I think if anything they will stay around the same or possibly reduce further. In which case the best thing to do is to cancel and walk away.

I did this originally as a money making exercise. That stopped being a possibility before the shows ran. I stayed on because the venue assured me they would sort it out. It never happened. I didn't want to let them down despite they let me down numerous times. The situation I am now faced with is I am most likely moving into an area where I can't win on any level. If numbers are less then at best they get a pub show. Which of course still better than a street hypnosis show!

The ticket price is for a theatre show. The venue gets a little money nothing worth going through the mill for. They owe me about 1k in expenses. Which they might withhold if refuse to do the last show.

So tommorrow I will find out the tickets sold and try and agree on an exit. A minimum number where we pull the show. I don't want people spending that amount when a proper show isn't possible. There is a line where you have to just cut your losses and I think its almost there.

I think this is also the best outcome for me to limit reputation damage. I would prefer a quiet night in to be honest. Its already time to move on. There will be no winners from this last show. And I have the most to lose. Friends of mine will turn up to support me Id rather they didn't. Just to put money in the venue's till.
Message: Posted by: dmkraig (Aug 26, 2010 12:25PM)
Currently, one of the semi-final acts on America's Got Talent is a group doing a "Black Art" act. Although relatively updated using UV lights, the basic concept is described in books over 100 years old. The judges on the show, however, said it was "unlike anything " they'd seen before.

It's something very old (hat) presented in a new way so that it's exciting and fresh.

Hypnosis shows aren't old hat--it's the presentation that's old hat. Magic isn't old hat, but many of it's presenters are. Most of the popular magicians seem to comedians who do magic. A few are magicians who do comedy. At the top are magicians who do magic.

If nobody has done a major tour as you describe, it's because nobody has a modern, mind-shattering presentation.
Message: Posted by: Shane Masters (Aug 26, 2010 08:47PM)
Dunno punisher, I haven't done big shows like this, but, I have had some that didn't have the turn out I expected. Since there were no pre-show ticket sales, it was a crapshoot to how many would turn out. I still did them...but, differently.

I am blessed with the ability to BS my way through many things. When I walked out on stage, I noticed that a house that could have had 200 people easily, only had about 60-ish. I walked right out to my microphone and the first words out of my mouth were something like: " You guys are in for a special treat!! I wanted a smaller show so I could make it more personal to YOU! I usually charge more for personal performances, so , you guys are definately going to get your money's worth tonight! "

Total BS. I was scared fecal-less ( is that really a word? ). I went through my comedy stuff, threw in a few extra bits I was saving for another show and brought my people up on stage. Get them hypnotized and go through all my warm up stuff.

I go out into the crowd directly to someone I seen falling into a relaxed state while I was puttng my stage guests under. I knew he was primed. I gave him some patter like " .... sometimes, my voice and suggestions are so powerful, people in the crowd get hypnotized and do not know it. What if you were hypnotized? What if I stuck your hand to your forehead and you couldn't remove it. No matter how hard you try, you find it becomes impossible to remove that hand.What if?..." then I placed his hand on his head and it was stuck. I went to another person I seen dipping in and out.....do the same thing. I sit down beside another person and asked them to stare at my finger...some patter... SNAP!SLEEP!....down.

At the end of the show, I announced I was going to a local watering hole if anyone wanted to join me. A lot of them did. I didn't pay for a drink. I didn't even leave the post hypnotic suggestion they would pay for it. Those people thought I was the coolest guy that night. It was completely different than what they expected.

I guess it comes to the old adage that you can turn anything into a positive experience if you out the right twist on it. You can make this a great "personal" show to those few in attendance if you spin it right.

As far as the stage monitors go, my official opinion is this: It is up to the house sound man to make sure this is all good. No excuses. Anyone that has done ANY type of sound knows that you need a monitor....even if you are just giving a lecture on colonoscopies. If the house is that big you need a sound man, they better have monitors on stage...this helps you guage the inflection and tone in your voice. I guess you could kick youself in the butt for not checking beforehand, but, there are some things that should just be universally excepted and expected.-Shane
Message: Posted by: Anthony Jacquin (Aug 27, 2010 12:24AM)
Fair point Shane but I beg to differ.

A monitor has particular importance for a stage hypnotist. More than it does for a comedian or magician and most other performers. As a hypnotist it is vital those on stage can hear you wherever you are on that stage and the sound adds to the intensity of their experience. You can manage the levels to accentuate this. This is entirely different to a comedian or magician who most often works close up to his participant and can ensure he is understood.

Same goes for the microphone. Relying on a sound man to think that he needs a spare mic or spare battery is an oversight in my opinion. You need to check. The audience will not be blaming the soundman if it goes tits up.

Both things should be on your checklist. As should many other health and safety items that might also be taken for granted. Yes of course 99 times in a hundred their answer will be 'Of course I got it covered'. They should stil be on your checklist.

Beware the Black Swan. Or should I say Black Elephant.

Anthony
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Aug 27, 2010 04:07AM)
Ant your talking through your backside. If you read my earlier posts this stage was no good to anybody withot a monitor. Ant I would love to k now how many real stage hypnosis shows you have done? Since it was only a few months back you were on here asking for basic help/info on how to give suggestions properly. And your RIP dvd that comes withthe bookmakes it clear at that point you dd't know how to manage the hypnotic state properly.

I have done bigger venues with no monitors and the shows were perfect. In fact I did a venue with nealy 1000 seats for nearly three years with no monitor and had not one hitch.

Shane I would prefer to cancel the last show if I could. Because Idon't care if anybody thinks I am cool or not. This is a business. The product on offer was a theatre experience. Now that's not possible. I can't make any money out of it. At best I can do a club style show. At worse I have to cancel on the night.

I appreciate everything you said. But you have to remember Ive been through all that and much more. This is just a business to me. I have a product I exchange for money. If I can't deliver that product then I don't want to be there. I should've took the advice from Equity and walked away when they started to mess with the dates and marketing. But I stayed knowing I wouldn't make money but to help them minimise their losses. Now at the very last step they would have me walk on knowing I could do nothing to get a few sales at the bar. Another lesson I have learned here in business. There are no friends in business. Look after yourself.

Be a c%&* It seems those that get on are.

I noticed they had two big stars one due to play on the same night as the opening but earlier. And another a few days later. They both rescheduled for later in the year because their ticket sales were low. (festival again) They obviously have good agents working for them. I was not offered that. Instead they would put me in a vulnerable position to make a few bob. The only reason I have not cancelled is because they owe me expenses. Again my fault I should've made sure they had paid them before the start of the shows. These are real hard lessons I've learned.

Business is business - friends are not in the equation. But then that has always been one of my weaknesses.
Message: Posted by: Anthony Jacquin (Aug 27, 2010 04:39AM)
Well all I can say is in my stage hypnosis training it was made clear that checking sound spec, including a monitor on stage was my responsibility. But then Jon Chase is pretty thorough.

All I hear from you about your recent debacle is you blaming everyone around you. Take some responsibility.

Anthony
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Aug 27, 2010 04:51AM)
Your such a w%NKer Ant. I think you should stick to playing at it in the street. I think you've found your level.

And even with that problem I got by the show wasn't that bad.

Your training was that great that you had to come on here to get very basic info on giving suggestions?

Gee....
Message: Posted by: Anthony Jacquin (Aug 27, 2010 06:12AM)
Your show was pulled halfway through because of a lack of dilligence on your part - how is that getting by?

Good luck tonight.

Mic. Check. Monitor. Check. Hypnotist looking for the back door. Check

Ant
Message: Posted by: Shane Masters (Aug 27, 2010 07:06AM)
Ouch!! You guys or getting a little bit sour here. It seems this forum is following that trend.

Ant, I understand about you doing the checking ...and double checking. In the end you can always pull the blame back to yourself if you want. However, in my limited experience in the field, but, with plenty experience in playing live music and running sound, this just should have been done without question.

Punisher, I didn't do this to make people think I was cool and to get free drinks. I did it for damage control. I could have easily cancelled and walked off, but, those people probably would have spread the word. Unfortunately, I am not in your position where many people know my name and I can pull this off. I have to do what I can to get myself established to move up and on.

I look up to you and your posts, I really do, but, here lately, you have been pretty brash with some of the other members here. Are you okay? You want to go into a private chat and talk about it? Seriously....not trying to be funny.-Shane
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Aug 27, 2010 08:10AM)
Being "brash" is just speaking my mind. And usually the truth. Someone has to point it out. Privately a few of the more experienced members on here agree with me. They just don't post it.

Shane the tone of the posts on here are not the same as a conversation. And may come across more brash than they would over a pint in a bar. Yeah damage limitation is always a good thing. I agree with you I honestly I do. But its not always the same actions that limit the damage. I didn't say you did it to be a cool guy. I never meant that in the slightest. If you got that impression I am sorry.

These posts are for your benefit make use of them how you will. Learn from my experiences and mistakes that's why I put them up here. (Danny was the only one to actually thank me and sorry also Tony) There is a lot of value in these posts for anyone who may want to try this. that's why I put them up. I would've appreciated them had they been put up by someone else. And Im not trying to sell you a dodgy dvd set they are there for genuine reasons.


And my last thoughts on no friends in business? These are my true thoughts. Again make of them what you will(you don't have to agree). I will certainly try to be more "selfish" and look after my own interests in the future not just with stage work but in every area. I find this a reoccuring theme in business when you really look out for the other party and the favour is never returned.

The show tonight will most likely go ahead it may even be great. However you define that. I just want to move on from this.

On the positives this has re opened a door that closed a few years ago. That if it works out IS something I would love to do and may even be lucrative. But I would absolutely love to do it. Its related to hypnosis but nothing to do with stage. Im sure once the dust has settled and I look back I will see so many benefits from having done this. Im just bit battle weary at the moment.

This is my final post on this. I am taking a break from here...
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Aug 27, 2010 08:28AM)
Well, at least let us know how the last show goes before you do.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Aug 27, 2010 08:59AM)
>>>how is that getting by?<<<<

Well when somebody emails you through youtube to tell you they are coming on their 3rd visit tonight I think that's getting by. Perhaps more. Perhaps I'm just frustrated that have not had a chance to deliver what I know I am truly capable of.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Aug 27, 2010 12:41PM)
Ok I apologise for calling Ant a W%&*"r And I will be checking the sound system tonight...

Thanks Ant..
Message: Posted by: kissdadookie (Aug 27, 2010 01:05PM)
[quote]
On 2010-08-27 08:06, Shane Masters wrote:
Ouch!! You guys or getting a little bit sour here. It seems this forum is following that trend.
[/quote]

At this point Shane, I'm beginning so suspect that MP and Anthony are actually very good friends as opposed to actually being adversaries. This is how long and regular the back and forth has been. Ha ha.
Message: Posted by: Shane Masters (Aug 27, 2010 01:47PM)
That, or they are one in the same.... doing the Thorazine shuffle.-Shane
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 27, 2010 06:33PM)
I have to say that there is more to be learned from adversity than from stunning success. We learn about who we are as performers.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Aug 28, 2010 08:14AM)
Ok a quick update. Last night I made a few changes created a completely new structure for the venue. Rust is now falling off and I got into gear. Went down an absolute storm. Perfect ending. Ticket sales were well up on last week. I have no doubt they would've risen again on back of last nights show...In fact if this had been the first of the three Im pretty sure we would've more or less filled the place by now.

Word of mouth should set things up if I do a return. The only problem I have now is the deal. I can't go back on that deal its no good for me. It depends on them.

Im off..

Last night's show is the third show I've done in nearly 12 years. The first show was the first! No practice just a few self hypnosis sessions and instructions to my unconscious to remember my best shows. I probably need to do four more big shows to be up to full speed. And then after introduce and test some brand new material.

Still have done a major venue which gets me right back up there for credibility.

I don't recomend anybody do this. Its just how I am. From the two hours I got an hour broadcast quality filming which should make a brilliant promo. So maybe all the torture and stress was worth it? Time will tell.

And you can be *&%*^%" sure I did a sound check!
Message: Posted by: Shane Masters (Aug 28, 2010 04:05PM)
Punisher, I am glad to see you had the moxy to go through with it. There is something to be said for relentless aggression.

It may mean nothing to you coming from me, but, it shows the amount of character you possess. I commend you for this effort.

Even more so, I am glad to see this show helped you find some of the "magic" you felt in this art many years ago.-Shane
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Aug 28, 2010 04:34PM)
Well done. I'm delighted you are back in business. Onwards and upwards.
Message: Posted by: DR STEVE HOSKINS (Sep 25, 2010 11:39AM)
Glad that 3rd show worked Brian, - Well done and keep your pecker up!

Steve