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Topic: Bob Kohler's Lightning Box
Message: Posted by: Bob Kohler (Sep 2, 2010 07:04PM)
I thrilled to announce that after many years of development I am releasing what I feel is the best solution for "The Signed Card In Box" ever released.
It's called the "Lightning Box".

A lot of us perform a version of Bruno Hennig's classic routine, there have certainly been many versions over the years. From Tommy Wonder to John Kennedy and many others there have been some really outstanding versions.

The Lightning Box takes things to a new level by building off of the best ideas and adding some very clever new innovations.

If you're interested in this effect you owe it to yourself to visit the product page for the Lightning Box on my website at: https://www.bobkohlermagic.com/view-product.cfm?productID=68

Here's just a little of what you soon discover.

1) The Lightning Box looks like a high end jewelry box. I modeled it after a box a great set of cuff links came in.

2) You can use any playing card, any color or back design. You can also use money, business cards, billets and more.

3) The objects inside are real objects so spectators can see that they have depth.

4) You can change the objects very quickly.

5) You can show the Lightning Box empty both BEFORE and AFTER the revelation.

6) You can add other objects a la the Jamy Ian Swiss work such as dice, poker chips, change etc. to build the most convincing illusion ever!

7) The Lightning Box is designed for professional use, it's manufactured to incredible tolerances on CNC Lathes and Milling machines.

8) It resets instantly!

Sound interesting…check out the product page and don't miss the HD Movie. There's a lot more information and some great pictures.

The Lightning Box will ship very soon. I'm offering a special sale price for Pre-Orders. The deal is too good to list here.
I can tell you that the offer is very limited so don't wait or it will be too late.
Message: Posted by: rockthemike (Sep 2, 2010 07:12PM)
First
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Sep 2, 2010 07:15PM)
I watched the vid, and that looks very, very good, Bob. Only thing is I wish you would have included a full performance so we can see it in action.

Nevertheless, it looks great.
Message: Posted by: Lou Cirulli (Sep 2, 2010 07:41PM)
Ah man! I just purchased a Kennedy Mystery Box! What the heck do I do now! Thanks a lot Bob! I'll have to give you a piece of my mind when I see you at Innovention 2010! :)
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Sep 2, 2010 07:42PM)
Luck of the draw!
Message: Posted by: taller8 (Sep 2, 2010 08:44PM)
I didn't really catch the 'empty box after the reveal' in the demo. I think I'll stick with the classic Mystery box.
Message: Posted by: Bob Kohler (Sep 2, 2010 08:45PM)
Sorry Lou,
but you should get one now and save the money because once you see it at Innovention the Pre-Orders will be gone. Once you see it...well, you know.
Message: Posted by: Tim Trono (Sep 2, 2010 08:47PM)
This is REALLY good. Bob shared the basic idea with me several years ago and has been working on all of the details for manufacturing, etc. since then. It's finally coming to fruition. I love this plot and have played with all of the versions out there. This is so good - it's got that special factor where you will love doing it just for the joy of how great it looks.

THE strongest card to box I have ever seen and I've seen them all.

Tim Trono
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Sep 2, 2010 08:55PM)
Coming from you, that's a very strong endorsement. :)
Message: Posted by: Review King (Sep 2, 2010 09:41PM)
[quote]
On 2010-09-02 21:55, daffydoug wrote:
Coming from you, that's a very strong endorsement. :)
[/quote]

Agreed! Tim Trono knows killer material!

Chris
Message: Posted by: Bob Kohler (Sep 2, 2010 10:14PM)
The trailer simply can't show every detail. The DVD's running time is 1 hour and 15 minutes the trailer is just over 5 minutes.

The empty show is just that, the Lightning Box is absolutely empty. There are so many possible ways to use the Lightning Box that the possibilities are endless. It's easy to use, once you see the inner workings you'll understand just how powerful this really is.

There are many problems with trailers but one issue is that many people watch a trailer and make an instant judgement only on what the trailer shows. Magic products can't really show everything as they contain secrets. In this case the training is covers a lot of different ways to use this prop. In the end many magicians will customize it's use to fill they needs using the various tools, choreography and moments I teach. Others will do the exact routines on the DVD. The Lightning Box is a professional level product. For a long time I considered making this a BK Pro Line product, it's that good.

Compared to other offerings in this genre the Lightning Box training is very extensive. But I'm already in the planning stages for a follow-up DVD. Even in the short time it's been since the DVD went to press many more ideas have popped up both from me and my Beta testers. Some of the new thoughts are really out there...
Message: Posted by: the Sponge (Sep 2, 2010 10:41PM)
[quote]
On 2010-09-02 21:44, taller8 wrote:
I didn't really catch the 'empty box after the reveal' in the demo. I think I'll stick with the classic Mystery box.
[/quote]

The demo video shows you EVERYTHING you need to know.

s
Message: Posted by: Douglas Lippert (Sep 3, 2010 12:42AM)
So I don't seem like I'm being negative I want to say that there's a lot of great items from Mr. Kohler. I love my U3F.

Now I can understand making the box out of plastic for durability but it makes the prop seem like a Tenyo toy. If the main selling point is being able to use any card or whatever it's already been done. Also, showing the box empty before the effect is magician thinking. Don't do that in a real performance. It ruins the surprise..

Maybe there could be a Pro Line box
made of wood. I'd get that.
Message: Posted by: pepka (Sep 3, 2010 12:55AM)
That's one thing I really love about Bob and his products. He'll work on an idea for years and years, testing and tweaking before it sees the light of day. There is so much crap put out these days that someone thought of one day on the toilet and it's on the market 2 days later.
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Sep 3, 2010 07:05AM)
Can anyone say Collector's workshop brass billet box?
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Sep 3, 2010 08:22AM)
[quote]
On 2010-09-02 23:14, Bob Kohler wrote:
The trailer simply can't show every detail. The DVD's running time is 1 hour and 15 minutes the trailer is just over 5 minutes.

The empty show is just that, the Lightning Box is absolutely empty. There are so many possible ways to use the Lightning Box that the possibilities are endless. It's easy to use, once you see the inner workings you'll understand just how powerful this really is.

There are many problems with trailers but one issue is that many people watch a trailer and make an instant judgement only on what the trailer shows. Magic products can't really show everything as they contain secrets. In this case the training is covers a lot of different ways to use this prop. In the end many magicians will customize it's use to fill they needs using the various tools, choreography and moments I teach. Others will do the exact routines on the DVD. The Lightning Box is a professional level product. For a long time I considered making this a BK Pro Line product, it's that good.

Compared to other offerings in this genre the Lightning Box training is very extensive. But I'm already in the planning stages for a follow-up DVD. Even in the short time it's been since the DVD went to press many more ideas have popped up both from me and my Beta testers. Some of the new thoughts are really out there...
[/quote]

Now you really got me going!
Message: Posted by: korttihai_82 (Sep 3, 2010 10:34AM)
[quote]
On 2010-09-02 23:41, the Sponge wrote:
[quote]
On 2010-09-02 21:44, taller8 wrote:
I didn't really catch the 'empty box after the reveal' in the demo. I think I'll stick with the classic Mystery box.
[/quote]

The demo video shows you EVERYTHING you need to know.
s
[/quote]

Indeed... It even shows the main modus operandi if you know what you are looking for and seems extremely sneaky :)

J-M
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Sep 3, 2010 10:42AM)
I'm in the dark.
Message: Posted by: Ustaad (Sep 3, 2010 11:39AM)
Youtube: The teaser/ demo video has been removed by the user.

:xmas:
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Sep 3, 2010 11:41AM)
What gives?
Message: Posted by: the Sponge (Sep 3, 2010 01:49PM)
I would imagine someone felt it gave too much away.

s
Message: Posted by: korttihai_82 (Sep 3, 2010 01:53PM)
[quote]
On 2010-09-03 12:39, Ustaad wrote:
Youtube: The teaser/ demo video has been removed by the user.

:xmas:
[/quote]

Makes one wonder why? Just because you could see the "dirty move"?!!? Laymen woudnt never see it and most magicians seem to have missed it as well.

However even after seeing it and realising what it is, at least in this case, it made me appreaciate the thing even more and for once understand why the price is as high as it is. This is not same method as in John Kennedy box or minor variation of Jon Allen or Henning routines. This has some work that at least I havent seen ever before connected to plot like this.

Maybe they were just too scared that Magic Makers will dublicate it anyway and start selling rip offs in month or two :(

J-M
Message: Posted by: Douglas Lippert (Sep 3, 2010 03:03PM)
[quote]
On 2010-09-03 14:53, korttihai_82 wrote:
Maybe they were just too scared that Magic Fakers will duplicate it anyway and start selling rip offs in a month or two.
[/quote]

This. :(
Message: Posted by: zmakingmagic (Sep 3, 2010 03:11PM)
Where can I watch the demo?
Message: Posted by: polygonsmagic (Sep 3, 2010 04:27PM)
The demo gave too much away? Looking at the pictures, you can see very close detail like some big rip in the plastic on the rim of the box. I'm guessing that's not part of the mechanism. And those dice look like one-dimensional. Nonetheless, I'd like to have a look at this. Will wait for the reports to come in.
Message: Posted by: Bob Kohler (Sep 3, 2010 04:56PM)
Actually the YouTube video crashed, the audio wouldn't match up with the video.
I guess the YouTube police figured out that I loaded a file that exceeded their maximum limit.

I've just loaded a new lower resolution movie up. I will attempt to put up an new HD version but the file size I'm working with is massive at over 5 Gigs. Getting the compression perfect is tricky as YouTube will only accept files up to 2 Gigs.

I have to say I love the concept of one dimensional dice...
I've got a show coming up in a flat universe...hmmm.
Message: Posted by: Douglas Lippert (Sep 3, 2010 08:54PM)
I finally watched the demo video on a computer as I've only had my cell phone the last couple of days and I didn't get 3G speeds for video.


This makes me want to dig out my old Boston Coin Box. May I kindly suggest editing out the bit with the four coins being put back into the box.

Looks like the box can't be examined by spectators. This isn't that big of a deal. Fred Kaps and Tommy Wonder just put the box away. Though, I like the Mystery Box's ability to be left on the table and if someone where to look inside (1/1000 times) it would be alright.

Like I said before, if there were a wooden version I would buy it at the current price point. (Might be cheaper to manufacture as well)
Message: Posted by: korttihai_82 (Sep 3, 2010 09:07PM)
Spectators doesn't want to see the box... I have used both Kennedy box and Jon Allen box on and off for over 5 years and seriously never has anyone wanted to see the box... (although in Allen version the box can be looked at but I mainly use Kennedy one anyway.) I can honestly say that never ever has one asked or reached for the box even though I left em in full view.

About the wooden box however... Where in the world they sell jewelry in wooden box?!?!? Not even in Lapland where they try to add anything to our products... However plastic jewelry boxes are 100% everyday items everywhere I have been to. This is pure magicians thinking and thinking it way too much in my mind.

J-M
Message: Posted by: Douglas Lippert (Sep 3, 2010 09:13PM)
[quote]
On 2010-09-03 22:07, korttihai_82 wrote:
Spectators doesn't want to see the box... I have used both Kennedy box and Jon Allen box on and off for over 5 years and seriously never has anyone wanted to see the box... (although in Allen version the box can be looked at but I mainly use Kennedy one anyway.) I can honestly say that never ever has one asked or reached for the box even though I left em in full view.

About the wooden box however... Where in the world they sell jewelry in wooden box?!?!? Not even in Lapland where they try to add anything to our products... However plastic jewelry boxes are 100% everyday items everywhere I have been to. This is pure magicians thinking and thinking it way too much in my mind.

J-M
[/quote]

I clearly stated that only about 1 out of 1000 times has someone asked to see the box. But for that 1 time I don't have to fumble in my pocket to ditch a card or anything. They can look inside all they want as there is nothing to see w/ the Kennedy box.

Obviously you can call the Kohler box whatever you want. It does not have to be a "wooden jewelry" box as you put it. You present the box any way you want to present it. For example, I would present it as the container where I store my expensive silver coins. Which would be the truth. I don't like lying to spectators more than I have to.

I'm NOT doing magicians thinking but thanks for your comments.
Message: Posted by: Stucky (Sep 3, 2010 09:48PM)
No offense but that video was kinda dull to watch. Way too long.

I have some thoughts about this, both good and bad. Instead of striking up some war I will instead say that there are many options for this idea, and if this one suits you best, get it.

Just something to chew on.
Message: Posted by: Tim Trono (Sep 3, 2010 10:38PM)
Hi Stucky. I get your point but I think the intention of this clip is to give some real insight into this item - it's not the quick visual clip we so frequently see currently but instead a more detailed look at the possibilities, why this box stands out from others, etc. Basically most of us already know what the plot/effect is... so what most of us want to know is why pick this one over others out there and I think that is what Bob is trying to give insight to. So you are correct in that it is long and not as visually exciting as some clips but this IS am investment for the serious worker and thus I believe Bob wants those considering it to have some detailed insight before they invest.

Douglas while I also understand your concern let me assure you this looks FAR FAR from cheap plastic. It's heavy duty, classy, and looks great... it is NOT cheap plastic and does not look that way at all. It's hard to explain why but it reminds me of a magic "Apple" product. Without giving any details away it also makes the workings far better.

I prefer NOT to show the box empty initially though one can do that. I feel it is far stronger to have it be a mystery. You can then show the folded card inside (3D) with other item(s), dump them out, and open up the card to show it is the signed selected card. They now get to thoroughly see the box is empty and you can put the other objects (ex. real dice, coins, casino chips, etc.) back into the now empty box. You can instantly repeat things, etc. It is super fair, super good looking, super practical, etc.

Bob explores a lot of ideas, uses, etc. but it's certainly hard to beat the standard signed card to box. The Lighting Box allows for it to look fantastic.

I know this has been a real manufacturing feat. When Bob initially told me about the idea quite some time ago I instantly realized how great this was. But as it developed, small issues you would not even consider crept up and Bob has overcome those which has allowed for a much better item than I heard about some time ago. Bob worked all of the issues out. I can't imagine this any better than it is. This is one of those rare items that once word gets around of exactly how it is done it will actually inspire people to get it as it is so good. In other words, the method is a positive instead of a negative or a challenge. Also, once it is out most of the concerns (ex. the material it is made from, etc.) will quickly disappear.

This is an item I will USE.

Tim
Message: Posted by: Mike McEathron (Sep 3, 2010 11:19PM)
Looks like another fine release from Bob Kohler Magic.....
Message: Posted by: Ben Harris (Sep 4, 2010 03:13AM)
What a lovely piece of engineering. Machined ABS is rock solid and will both look and feel classy. Knowing the workings, I'd imagine that there is no better material to machine this from. Wonderful.

Benny
Message: Posted by: goldeneye007 (Sep 4, 2010 03:28AM)
The Lightning Box looks nice to me. As mentioned by another member here on the thread, it also really reminds me of the Viking brass billet box.
Message: Posted by: Christopher Congreave (Sep 4, 2010 04:26AM)
I think it looks great, I use a destination box all the time, but this looks really cool. I think I have to start sweet talking the wife!!
Message: Posted by: Bob Kohler (Sep 4, 2010 10:19AM)
Love the glasses Ben...
You're correct. ABS is the best material choice by far. I made prototypes from wood, metal and many other plastics. ABS won by a mile. It's really tough, machines very well and the finish is cool. It's also impervious to moisture and humidity.
Message: Posted by: Steve Hook (Sep 4, 2010 10:29AM)
1) Regarding the design materials, I believe ABS is the perfect choice, as, over time, a wood version might possibly stop working properly.

2) Having given this a lot of thought, the value of showing the inside BEFORE might best be exploited in the prediction-type effect, as in using "Q".

While not absolutely necessary to fool the specs, if you show a card inside as a prediction you made before the show, then they name a completely random card, then you dump and show the matching prediction, and if the box is then empty, well, there's just nowhere to go with that (no way to backtrack). BAM!

- Steve H
Message: Posted by: Mark Southworth (Sep 4, 2010 03:23PM)
This looks great well done Bob! this is a fantastic version of card etc. to box & this really is the finest version, "so simple so powerful "!

Best Wishes

Mark Southworth
Message: Posted by: andykean (Sep 4, 2010 07:05PM)
My orders in!
Message: Posted by: Bob Kohler (Sep 4, 2010 07:33PM)
The Trailer is now available in HD. First, go to the Lightning Box product page and expand the video size.
The next step is to choose either 720P or 1080P. The Lightning Box will fill up your screen.
Message: Posted by: hefemexy (Sep 4, 2010 09:36PM)
Any tentative shipment timeframe
Message: Posted by: Bob Kohler (Sep 5, 2010 01:19PM)
Here's the status. We are in the final manufacturing stage. Our CNC machine shop is working on finishing our order. They are making the precision parts that will become the LIghtning Box. I've been very hands on during the process checking samples for fit and finish. We're on schedule.

After we receive the parts we do have to assemble them into finished Lightning Boxes. This is assembly is done one at a time. Right now we can only estimate the time it will take to do the actual assembly and packaging.

Our goal is the ship on September 26. We may be a few days early or a few days late. Please be patient. Perfection takes time. We'll do our best to meet our goal but quality control trumps fast.
Message: Posted by: Martino (Sep 5, 2010 02:05PM)
Bob,

This looks great! Excellent method! Now I only wish I had a spare $160 to send your way! Ah well! Another one for the wish list!

Regards,

Martin.
Message: Posted by: Daren (Sep 5, 2010 02:37PM)
Looks very nice!!! is it essential to also purchase 'q' for one of the effects too?
Message: Posted by: Bob Kohler (Sep 5, 2010 03:00PM)
Yes, the bonus effect is called "Invisible Lightning". It's uses the Q-Quantum Connection. The choreography and handling combined with "the Q" is simply stunning. The audience is only aware of one card. Every action is completely motivated. The result is a show stopper.
Message: Posted by: Dan Bernier (Sep 5, 2010 04:53PM)
[quote]
On 2010-09-02 23:14, Bob Kohler wrote:

There are many problems with trailers but one issue is that many people watch a trailer and make an instant judgement only on what the trailer shows.
[/quote]

Isn't that what trailer demo's are for?

When I watch a movie demo on television, it's decided from watching the trailer if I want to go watch the whole movie. Same goes for magic tricks and props. Otherwise why do magic creator's,dealers, and producers make them? They make them with the intentions that the trailer will lead people to purchase the product.
Message: Posted by: Markymark (Sep 5, 2010 05:28PM)
Yes,but it seems to me that sometimes the trailer is designed to help you make an
informed decision [as with the Lightning box] but sometimes it's just there to
try and get your money!
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Sep 5, 2010 05:58PM)
Yes, "Q" and special Faux gold impregnated playing cards that make the lightning box run smoother. Only $60 a pack. Totally examinable
James


[quote]
On 2010-09-05 15:37, Daren wrote:
Looks very nice!!! is it essential to also purchase 'q' for one of the effects too?
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: Bob Kohler (Sep 6, 2010 12:06PM)
I've put out many products and DVD's over the years but I've never really integrated another manufacturers product with mine before.

But the Q-Quantum Connection is so good and works so well with the Lightning Box I simply had to put the two together. It is a marriage made in heaven. The two products used together provide workers with an incredibly powerful routine that is easy to do, resets in seconds and is totally practical.

I predict that the Invisible Lightning routine will be come one of the most used routines for working professionals for everybody from strolling magicians to trade show performers to formal close up showmen.

It works in any type of show and just kills.
Message: Posted by: davidpaul$ (Sep 6, 2010 02:18PM)
Looks pretty darn close to Mark Leveridge's " Lightning Ring Box"

http://www.markleveridgemagic.co.uk/ulrb.php
Message: Posted by: Mike McEathron (Sep 6, 2010 02:30PM)
The lighting ring box is not even close to the Kohler product...I have spoke to Bob on this product many times and I got to tell you this is going to be a killer close up routine so many ways to present the effect with unlimited presentation options.......if you have had any of Bob's CNC products you know the quality we are talking about here, I will mention the FA gimmick......


Cheers

Mike
Message: Posted by: shaunproof (Sep 7, 2010 08:55AM)
Congratulations. Best of luck with sales.
Message: Posted by: davidpaul$ (Sep 7, 2010 10:34AM)
[quote]
On 2010-09-06 15:30, Mike McEathron wrote:
The lighting ring box is not even close to the Kohler product...I have spoke to Bob on this product many times and I got to tell you this is going to be a killer close up routine so many ways to present the effect with unlimited presentation options.......if you have had any of Bob's CNC products you know the quality we are talking about here, I will mention the FA gimmick......


Cheers
(end of quote)


Hmmmm let me see, "The Lightning Box" won't be released until the end of September. Do you own the "Lightning Ring Box" by Leveridge? All I'm saying is that Mark Leveridge's box has been out for many years and they both have the name "Lightning"
in their title. Mark Leveridge demos his box using a ring but they look VERY similar in methodology. Whether they are or not, it's funny they are using the same name for a very similar effect. (check out the demo video on the site listed above)

I too wish the best for Bob's products and the quality of his products are never in question. "If" Mark Leveridge's product was used as an inspiration, he should be given credit. (if it was)
David Paul
Message: Posted by: kissdadookie (Sep 7, 2010 11:30AM)
I'm just disappointed that I can't find the video for this thing. Sounds intriguing and I like how it looks better than the Kennedy box.
Message: Posted by: Steven Conner (Sep 7, 2010 11:35AM)
[quote]
On 2010-09-07 12:30, kissdadookie wrote:
I'm just disappointed that I can't find the video for this thing. Sounds intriguing and I like how it looks better than the Kennedy box.
[/quote]

https://www.bobkohlermagic.com/view-product.cfm?productID=68
Message: Posted by: polygonsmagic (Sep 7, 2010 11:36AM)
If you put a ring in the Lightening Box, is it then a Lightening Ring Box?

If the word "lightning" was used commonly in the past to describe these types of switching devices, that's one thing.

If that's not the case, I have no idea why Bob would use a similar name intentionally, especially when we know his views on protecting products.
Message: Posted by: kissdadookie (Sep 7, 2010 11:44AM)
[quote]
On 2010-09-07 12:35, Steven Conner wrote:
[quote]
On 2010-09-07 12:30, kissdadookie wrote:
I'm just disappointed that I can't find the video for this thing. Sounds intriguing and I like how it looks better than the Kennedy box.
[/quote]

https://www.bobkohlermagic.com/view-product.cfm?productID=68
[/quote]

Thanks! I checked it last week and the video wasn't there :P
Message: Posted by: corpmagi (Sep 7, 2010 12:13PM)
The only similarity between the Leveridge Lightning Ring Box and The Lightning Box from Bob Kohler is the word 'lightning'.
Message: Posted by: billfromoregon (Sep 7, 2010 12:27PM)
Bob or Tim - Will this be distributed through Murphy's or exclusively by BK? Thanks -

Bill
Message: Posted by: davidpaul$ (Sep 7, 2010 08:54PM)
[quote]
On 2010-09-07 13:13, corpmagi wrote:
The only similarity between the Leveridge Lightning Ring Box and The Lightning Box from Bob Kohler is the word 'lightning'.
[/quote]

I don't mean anything by this but how do you know?? The Lightning Box hasn't even been released yet!! Do you own Leveridge's Box?? Hard to make that statement then.
Again...I wish Bob the best,I just saw a strong similarity and BTW other things can be loaded other than a ring. I just found it ironic is all.
Message: Posted by: polygonsmagic (Sep 7, 2010 10:08PM)
"The only similarity between the Leveridge Lightning Ring Box and The Lightning Box from Bob Kohler is the word 'lightning'."

Yes, I really don't mean anything by this either, but isn't [using a title that is very similar to another] kind of a big deal? I know Mike Close thought so when coinworkers started using the term "workers" a little too freely.

And to me, that little white box looks very similar to that little black box. I'm just sayin.....
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Sep 7, 2010 10:27PM)
If you watch the demo on Leveridge's site, you will see that his ring box can't use cards. The object needs weight. You also have to shake the box before the reveal.

I think just tooling up for the ABS to be turned will be a major cost. Manufacturing is expensive. Kohler's Lightning box looks like a fine product.
James
ps
Mike Close also says he invented the wrist hookup for ITR. Funny, I have a book with Cardini using the same hookup. I am sure people used the term "worker" before he did.


[quote]
On 2010-09-07 23:08, polygonsmagic wrote:
"The only similarity between the Leveridge Lightning Ring Box and The Lightning Box from Bob Kohler is the word 'lightning'."

Yes, I really don't mean anything by this either, but isn't [using a title that is very similar to another] kind of a big deal? I know Mike Close thought so when coinworkers started using the term "workers" a little too freely.

And to me, that little white box looks very similar to that little black box. I'm just sayin.....
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Sep 7, 2010 10:48PM)
I have worked with plastics for years, and the Kohler box looks like it is molded not turned. There is what we in the business call "Flash" around the rim of the box shown.

It does not cost that much to mold or turn a plastic box. I think a better design and color could have been chosen for this little box trick. The pill box design is steping backwards. A square box would have been better with some color.

Plastic is one of the cheapest materials to manufacture.
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Sep 8, 2010 01:50AM)
I got ya here Bill.
Here in Taiwan vacuum molded plastic is cheap, BUT to open a mold is around $10,000
So you need to make a bunch or it is really expensive.
I say turned because they mentioned computers and it looked like a lathe in the demo.
James



[quote]
On 2010-09-07 23:48, wmhegbli wrote:
I have worked with plastics for years, and the Kohler box looks like it is molded not turned. There is what we in the business call "Flash" around the rim of the box shown.

It does not cost that much to mold or turn a plastic box. I think a better design and color could have been chosen for this little box trick. The pill box design is steping backwards. A square box would have been better with some color.

Plastic is one of the cheapest materials to manufacture.
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: Steve Hook (Sep 8, 2010 02:24AM)
From Bob's website:

"The material we used to construct the Lightning Box is Black ABS Plastic. The material works very well for this application. It's tough and durable yet it's very lightweight. ABS Plastic is used in high quality products. Do not confuse ABS Plastic with cheap injection mold plastics.

The Lightning Box is manufactured on high end computer controlled lathes and milling machines."
Message: Posted by: Bob Kohler (Sep 8, 2010 10:36AM)
As per the product description the Lightning Box is manufactured completely by CNC equipment. No injection molding processes are used. The trailer has a shot of the actual box as it's being turned on a lathe.

I choose black as the color because it simply hides the mechanism better than any other color.

The very first prototypes in the 1990's were made of wood and were square. I learned valuable lessons building the prototypes. The main lesson was neither wood or the square shape worked.

The tolerances on the Lightning Box are very tight. Wood expands and contract too much from heat and humidity changes.

Square boxes have many issues. Too many to list. The cylinder was proven to be the way to go.
Message: Posted by: Review King (Sep 8, 2010 11:11AM)
The Roberto Giobbi Lecture DVD by International Magic has footage of Frank Garcia on the David Susskind show. Frank used a round 'snake basket'. Susskind went out of his usual drab, dull character as he was beside himself when his signed card ended up folded inside the round little basket.

It's magician thinking to want the box to be square or a different color. An audience will not care or notice. Their signed card appearing inside is all they will ever remember.

The Lightning Box reminds me of a jewelry box. Perhaps put a small cufflink inside to fall out with the card?

For me, this stands out and would be the way I'd go:

BLACK LIGHTNING. This routine is performed under test conditions. The Lightning Box is in full view BEFORE a card is selected and signed. The audience sees the face up signed selection until the very last second. The signed card appears instantly in the Lightning Box.

Chris
Message: Posted by: Bob Kohler (Sep 9, 2010 08:14PM)
Still some Pre-Order spots left...
Message: Posted by: Mike McEathron (Sep 10, 2010 09:37AM)
[quote]
On 2010-09-08 12:11, Review King wrote:
The Roberto Giobbi Lecture DVD by International Magic has footage of Frank Garcia on the David Susskind show. Frank used a round 'snake basket'. Susskind went out of his usual drab, dull character as he was beside himself when his signed card ended up folded inside the round little basket.

It's magician thinking to want the box to be square or a different color. An audience will not care or notice. Their signed card appearing inside is all they will ever remember.

The Lightning Box reminds me of a jewelry box. Perhaps put a small cufflink inside to fall out with the card?

For me, this stands out and would be the way I'd go:

BLACK LIGHTNING. This routine is performed under test conditions. The Lightning Box is in full view BEFORE a card is selected and signed. The audience sees the face up signed selection until the very last second. The signed card appears instantly in the Lightning Box.

Chris
[/quote]

Could not agree more !
Mike
Message: Posted by: Mystical Matthew (Sep 10, 2010 07:24PM)
I pre-ordered this just for the sheer practicality of it. I never use my Kennedy boxes because the gi**ick has a tendency to stick half way, thereby screwing up the illusion. It may be an isolated problem with just my particular boxes, but I bought two of them several years apart. Both have the same issue.

I'm sure it's fixable, but I never took the time to dig deeper into it. If I'm right about the Lighting box (and I'm 99% sure I am) then this should never be a problem.

Also, I have a general rule of thumb. If I can accomplish an effect [i]without[/i] using cards, my first order of business is to do so. Nothing against card work, but I feel people see a lot of it done. Where there's a magician a deck of cards is sure to follow. I try to make my work look different from the crowd.

With the Lightning Box, it appears I'll be able to do "signed object to impossible location" in a very practical but powerful way. This has my creativity doing somersaults!

I'm looking forward to receiving mine. I'm especially anxious to cash in on "Reason #10"... lol ;-)
Message: Posted by: dahih beik (Sep 11, 2010 05:53AM)
I have the kennedy box and I love it , you can show the box empty at the begining if you desire ... I can see a huge discrapancy move when he places the box on the table I cant understand asking this price for a double sided box .
Message: Posted by: Review King (Sep 11, 2010 06:26AM)
[quote]
On 2010-09-11 06:53, dahih beik wrote:
I have the kennedy box and I love it , you can show the box empty at the begining if you desire ... I can see a huge discrapancy move when he places the box on the table I cant understand asking this price for a double sided box .
[/quote]

The Kennedy Mystery Box is fantastic, but it is limited to a certain playing card back design ( red or blue back bike ).

The Lightning Box is much more versatile. Any card design can be used, plus other objects as well.

The ad says

"Users can very easily swap out the object inside the box. It takes about one minute. You can use any playing card, any type of paper currency from any country, you can use business cards or billets. Many other objects will certainly find there way into the Lightning Box. For example I've also used sugar packets, small envelopes and many other small objects.
Message: Posted by: catweazle (Sep 11, 2010 08:51AM)
[quote]
On 2010-09-11 06:53, dahih beik wrote:
I can see a huge discrapancy move when he places the box on the table I cant understand asking this price for a double sided box .
[/quote]

I Agree, I do think specs notice moves like that, I certainly did and I have no previous knowledge of these types of box, looking at the demo I imagine that there are no moving parts, just a bit of an optical illusion, though I must be wrong for this price and the fact it needs to be ABS for trouble free use.
The fact remains that it does just look like a double ended box, that's what I see, I don't see a magic effect happening....

perhaps more info on the box workings would help me make a more informed opinion.
Message: Posted by: dahih beik (Sep 11, 2010 09:11AM)
That what I meant catwezly , we are looking at lightning price for a prop that uses a very old principle I still believe that for half the price you can get kennedy witch worth every penny .
Message: Posted by: Ustaad (Sep 11, 2010 09:20AM)
[quote]
On 2010-09-11 07:26, Review King wrote:

* The Kennedy Mystery Box is fantastic, but it is limited to a certain playing card back design (red or blue back bike).
[/quote]

In fact most such boxes are limited to holding a flat object like playing card etc.

[quote]
On 2010-09-11 07:26, Review King wrote:

[b]* The Lightning Box is much more versatile. Any card design can be used, plus other objects as well.[/b]
[/quote]

Yes, I fully agree with you Chris.

I have understood the working of this wonderful & brilliantly thought off and precision crafted box by Mr. Bob Kohler.

The beauty of this little box, as [b]I[/b] understand (after watching the demo vid), lies not only in showing a simple flat folded item (Card/ Billet/ Business card/ Bill etc.) but by showing that the box is filled with other bigger items (dice etc.) to the top (almost!), then dumping out the contents and showing the box to be completely empty. That IMHO creates a greater & a much bigger illusion in the minds of the spectator.

Hence I feel that the versatility of the [b]Lightning Box[/b] is a very big advantage as compared to other similar boxes.

Just my thoughts! :) ;)

:xmas:
Message: Posted by: silverking (Sep 11, 2010 09:37AM)
The discrepancy is [b]huge[/b].
Message: Posted by: Steven Conner (Sep 11, 2010 11:24AM)
[quote]
On 2010-09-11 10:37, silverking wrote:
The discrepancy is [b]huge[/b].
[/quote]

Actually, the so called discrepancy is quite natural. I think mountains are being made out of mole hills. Watching a demo is nothing like watching in a real situation. Only magicians scrutinize to such a degree. If you ever see Seth in action, he will fry you. Bob is excellent as performing is how he makes his living. The fact that we think we are so clever that we might figure something out is ludicrous. Does it get the job done? Are our clients happy with our performance? Do we get rehired? Does a magician know what we are doing? Who cares!! The great thing about this country is no one forces us to buy.
Message: Posted by: Review King (Sep 11, 2010 11:43AM)
You can't misdirect the camera. Magicians and lay folk view magic differently.

Long before Bob Kohler released material to the fraternity, he was a professional magician working corporate gigs and private parties. An effect may not appeal to someone ( we all have to make choices as to what we'll carry and use ) but you'd be wrong in thinking audiences aren't blown away by anything he releases as Bob prides himself in doing magic that works under 'test coindiutions'.

Oh, and the talented Paul Vigil ( resident Magician at King Ink at The Mirage in Las Vegas ) uses the Lightning Box in his professional work.

Just some things to think about.
Message: Posted by: catweazle (Sep 11, 2010 12:03PM)
[quote]
On 2010-09-11 12:43, Review King wrote:
You can't misdirect the camera. Magicians and lay folk view at magic differently.

[/quote]

Totally agree, just pointing out that from the demo the box at least appears to be a double ended box, that is what I see!! when I watch a double lift in a demo it still looks like magic, when I watch this demo I just see a double ended box,it costs a hell of a lot of money so I hope there is more to it than that, but as that is all my eyes can see when I watch the demo I'm struggling to see how the price is justified.
If there is some diabolical, ingenious mechanism that justifies the price the demo does not do it justice.
Message: Posted by: Wizard of Oz (Sep 11, 2010 12:30PM)
I love Black Envelope. I love Spirit Bell. If Bob put half as much effort into this effect as he did with those, I won't be disappointed.
Message: Posted by: doug brewer (Sep 11, 2010 02:07PM)
Yes, the move is visible, and to be honest, this could have easily been edited out, but it's not. I admire Bob for leaving it in. But we see the move, to a large degree, because we know the move and we're seeing it completely out of context. Also, the modus operandi of the box is much more than what is being speculated. I think this could have been a lot pricier considering the R&D that went into it making it work flawlessly. I'm a huge fan of the bent card revelation and absolutely obsessed about it a number of years ago (you can see some of the results of this obsession on my DVD on the subject). I've pre-ordered mine and can't wait to get it.
Message: Posted by: Jim Klodzen (Sep 11, 2010 06:20PM)
Having not read all the post here,I was completely fooled when I watched the video. Brilliant!
Message: Posted by: Mystical Matthew (Sep 11, 2010 08:37PM)
I brutally apply Occam's razor to my work. Its served me well so far.

At some point you have to decide whether you want to entertain "normal" people or other magicians. The two skills are almost mutually exclusive.

When entertaining another magician you want a clever solution that won't be easily ascertained. When entertaining a layperson the "magic" takes a backseat to the "entertainment" factor. Exhibit A: The Amazing Jonathan. It's very common for me to hear people say he's their favorite magician (other than me of course! lol! j/k!). Most of what he does isn't that creatively executed. Hell, a lot of it barely qualifies as "executed".

There's a happy medium of course, but that takes me back to my previous post. I bought this because I believe it will be practical. I don't foresee it malfunctioning on me. I entertain laypeople. These days I make it a point to avoid performing for other magicians at all.

Is it overpriced? Possibly, yes. It's a double edged sword though. The extra cost keeps people from saying "Oh! The kid down the street who also does magic has that same box! There must be something magical about it!". If you're doing the same act with the same props, how do you justify charging 5X more for your show? This is why I don't do stuff like "Extreme Burn" even though it's a great trick. Every 12 year old has one...

Granted, you can do "card to impossible location" with an Altoid tin, but does it have the same finesse? Maybe, maybe not.

You're welcome to disagree with me. I'm not affiliated with Bob or his crew in any way (other than being a customer). I'm just trying to provide a different perspective on why I consider the purchase worthwhile.
Message: Posted by: Mike McEathron (Sep 11, 2010 08:40PM)
The move and dirty work is visable to all of us....but one thing people forget is WE don't MATTER ! not one bit ...it is the spectator..that is all the matters.....How many people you know, know about a Th**b T*P...I fool people with it all the time......We look at this from our eyes and not the people who pay the bills...That is what I like about bob stuff it paid his bills ...enough said ...

Cheers

mike
Message: Posted by: Steven Conner (Sep 11, 2010 08:42PM)
Bottom line, its a Worker!!
Message: Posted by: Domino Magic (Sep 11, 2010 09:29PM)
[quote]
On 2010-09-11 12:43, Review King wrote:

Oh, and the talented Paul Vigil ( resident Magician at King Ink at The Mirage in Las Vegas ) uses the Lightning Box in his professional work.

Just some things to think about.
[/quote]

I don't think that is something worth considering to push someone to buy or not. I think what is MORE important is this - are you (the customer) going to use it in your professional work? If so, it's worth the money and it will pay for itself the first gig you use it in.

To many of us, seeing the demo makes the method obvious. I'm glad to see that Bob didn't hide anything in the preview. I doubt anyone is going to run out and make their own. So now you have a good idea of the method. You either like it or you don't. Personally, I think it's *** clever!
Message: Posted by: Review King (Sep 11, 2010 09:39PM)
[quote]
On 2010-09-11 22:29, Domino Magic wrote:
[quote]
On 2010-09-11 12:43, Review King wrote:

Oh, and the talented Paul Vigil ( resident Magician at King Ink at The Mirage in Las Vegas ) uses the Lightning Box in his professional work.

Just some things to think about.
[/quote]

I don't think that is something worth considering to push someone to buy or not. [/quote]

Of course it is. If Monkeyhead007 says they love it, no one knows or cares who that is. If a professional entertainer that earns their living performing ( like Paul Vigil ) uses it, that carries weight. Maybe not for you, but for many it means something.

Folks like to read reviews of products before they buy. There's no better review than a professional that uses a product in their act.
Message: Posted by: Steven Conner (Sep 11, 2010 10:04PM)
[quote]
On 2010-09-11 22:39, Review King wrote:
[quote]
On 2010-09-11 22:29, Domino Magic wrote:
[quote]
On 2010-09-11 12:43, Review King wrote:

Oh, and the talented Paul Vigil ( resident Magician at King Ink at The Mirage in Las Vegas ) uses the Lightning Box in his professional work.

Just some things to think about.
[/quote]

I don't think that is something worth considering to push someone to buy or not. [/quote]

Of course it is. If Monkeyhead007 says they love it, no one knows or cares who that is. If a professional entertainer that earns their living performing ( like Paul Vigil ) uses it, that carries weight. Maybe not for you, but for many it means something.

Folks like to read reviews of products before they buy. There's no better review than a professional that uses a product in their act.
[/quote]

Couldn't agree more. That's the difference. It's not an actor paid to promote a product but a real live working magician. A lot of the comments seem to be those whom don't work very much. In the real world, the method is academic, its the result. I remember back in the '80's when I first met Eddie Tullock. I heard all these magicians saying how they could do a pass better than him, palm a card better, and even his top change had room for improvement. Funny thing, as bad as he was (which he wasn't) Eddie made a quarter of a million dollars with a deck of cards while everybody else wanted to criticize. Most of his critics probably did well to make $250.00/year. If you make a six figure income from performing magic, perhaps there is greater validity to all this madness.
Message: Posted by: Martino (Sep 12, 2010 06:39AM)
Don't a number of the posts in this thread qualify as exposure!
Message: Posted by: Domino Magic (Sep 12, 2010 09:46AM)
I don't have a problem with endorsements from pros, but just because someone known uses it, doesn't mean it's right for everyone. YOU are the most important factor to consider. Is this something I want to carry around? Do I really need another card effect? Does this fit my style? Am I really going to use it? To me, those factors are more important than some other magician using it. I'm not that person, so what he uses or doesn't use has little bearing on the material I choose for my act.

You can take that "if someone known uses it, then it must be right for me" attitude to the extreme or the opposite! Tommy Wonder didn't use this, and what was good enough for Tommy Wonder is certainly good enough for me. Kaps didn't use it either. Would they have? We will never know, but my point is - it doesn't matter and the only thing that matters is, is it right for YOU, not "is it right for 'insert name of magician here'.

Look, there are just certain names in magic you trust. I've never been disappointed in any of the Bob Kohler Pro Line effects. Expensive? Some, but not really if you're going to perform them. For me, they've all paid for themselves the very first show. So what I'm saying is someone like Bob doesn't need a bunch of other magicians to vouch for him.

Most of us who make a living at this know good material when we see it. I think that this is a fantastic variation on the Card in Box and after watching the demo video of Bob using it, I'm sold. I've only heard of Paul Vigil. I've never seem him work, never seen any of his material and don't know how he uses this prop. He probably doesn't work the way I do. I'm not saying he's good or bad, but out of all of the reasons to buy this, just because he uses it, shouldn't be one of the compelling reasons in making a buying decision.
Message: Posted by: catweazle (Sep 12, 2010 11:07AM)
[quote]
On 2010-09-12 07:39, Martino wrote:
Don't a number of the posts in this thread qualify as exposure!
[/quote]

Well if you read the rules relating to 'Latest and greatest' you'll see that the posts are just speculation based on the demo video, I have no idea how it works, my remarks are just based on what I see. I wish I knew more about how it works and that's the only point I'm trying to make - I am seeing this from the point of view as a spectator, albeit one with a keen eye and the benefit of video.
It is not my intention to belittle it and I am fully aware of BK's quality control, I think I need to see this in person to appreciate it.
Message: Posted by: martysh (Sep 12, 2010 11:44AM)
I sprang for the thing sight unseen... I think I know what is coming but not sure of course..but thanks to Domino Magic two posts back and catweaz...above this... very level headed remarks...(and especially to Doug Brewer who should know)
I guess anyone can fuss at something like those here for something that hasn't been touched yet...I just can't wait until the thing ships to us all and we see how it really works to the needs of us who each need this ...differently.


I know I will use it.

Marty
Greenville,SC
Message: Posted by: Kaarlo von Freymann (Sep 12, 2010 03:05PM)
Bob Kohler produced a video demo of his Spirit Bell that would have earned an Oscar if there was one for this type of films. It presented the prop and the effect in a calm but irresistible way like Dean Dill presents his Box. No noise, no explosions, no nonsense. I immediately bought the spirit bell and it is a fantastic prop. But this video was just the opposite, a lot of unecessary noise and visual effects like on TV news that I therefore never watch. In the end I did not even really know what I would be buying. Hopefully a better video will emerge before the pre-order time runs out. As to the material, to say ABS is a high class material is a little far fetched, but there definitely is a problem using wood. I have a wonderful Tenyo machined wooden box with plastic disks in it. In wintertime the disks will not come out. But it can be done. Craig Filicetti provides machined wooden containers for his dice which are out of this world and a perfect fit. Catweazle spoke for me when he wrote: I think I need to see this in person to appreciate it. For that unfotunately I live too far away.
Kaarlo von Freymann Helsinki Finland
Message: Posted by: Review King (Sep 12, 2010 03:51PM)
Bob Kohler has a long list of professionals that use his releases in their work. Kozak, Paul Vigal, David Williamson, Apollo Robbins, etc. For every person that doesn't care about what professionals use in their act, there are a host of folks that find reassurance in it when purchasing their magic.
Message: Posted by: RS1963 (Sep 13, 2010 08:20PM)
Bob's Lightning box is very good. I well eventually get it. What I am going to say below has nothing to do with Bob Kohler who I consider a real worker and a man that is has a wealth of Knowledge. He's he's a very good person to top it off. So don't even dare say I'm saying anything bad about Bob Kohler. Kohler is a great guy and I'm very glad I've had the honor of getting to know him at the gatherings on Sat mornings.

Now I have to say Domino Magic is one hundred percent correct.Reviewking is more than WRONG. Just because Paul Vigal or any other name uses a prop or routine for lets say a Chink a Chink effect. That does not mean it is right for everyone It's time that old meaningless phrase be put to it's death. It has always been an incorrect statement and always well be. It's also very misleading. Not everything a well known performer does is suited to everyone. That in it's self makes that statement more that false.

Just because something works for Ammar, Fisher, Harris, Tamariz, Close, Malone, Roth. Kenner, Gertner. Doesn't mean it's a god send to everyone else. Stop using the b.s "If it's good for him it's good for you.
Message: Posted by: Bob Kohler (Sep 13, 2010 08:44PM)
I agree 100%.
Albert Goshman said "You are the magic!" This simple statement should be the baseline for all performing magicians. It's not the props, it's not even the tricks. But we are magicians that in the end need to do magic.

If you are going to do a show in any situation you need to make an honest assessment to understand if a trick or routine fits you. You also need to decide if a prop such as the Lightning Box will do the necessary job for you.

One size does not fit all. I designed the Lightning Box to be as versatile as possible but in the end it's you who must decide how to use it to fit you. It doesn't matter if working pros or you friends have chosen it. Only you can decide.
Message: Posted by: RS1963 (Sep 13, 2010 09:05PM)
I do have to say I have seen Bob Kohler perform this a 3-4 times. It is very good. I almost wish Bob hadn't put this out. He really has come up with ways to do this that makes it possible for almost any skill level to be able to use this in one way or another. It would fit well into my performances. I've used the card in ring box effect off and on over the years so I do know it would be a good fit for me.

If you have wanted to do this effect but the other versions had things about them that weren't quite to your liking I think the Lightening Box will take care of that.

What I really like about this is as Bob said you can use other items. Bills billets, many other things as well. It's a prop that has a lot of other options for objects you can use in it. It doesn't look like a prop either. It looks like what it's pretending to be. A small jewlery/trinket box.

If it fits you buy one. You won't be sorry.
Message: Posted by: funnymagic (Sep 14, 2010 07:38AM)
[quote]
On 2010-09-13 22:05, RS1963 wrote:
What I really like about this is as Bob said you can use other items. Bills billets, many other things as well. It's a prop that has a lot of other options for objects you can use in it. It doesn't look like a prop either. It looks like what it's pretending to be.
[/quote]
Sorry to put a spanner in the works but doesn't the same apply to Jon Allen's Destination Box?

The thing I like most about the Destination Box is that you can change the item that appears in the box on the fly.

I wouldn't change my Destination Box for anything :)
Message: Posted by: corpmagi (Sep 14, 2010 09:36AM)
I have tried Bob's Lightning Box and it's great. I also use and recommend Jon's Destination Box as well. Although the end result is virtually the same, I feel that each has it's strengths. They are both excellent products. You need to choose the product that fits you (and your performing situation) best.
Message: Posted by: Jon Allen (Sep 15, 2010 03:41AM)
I've been reading this thread but not contributed yet since, as the creator of the Destination Box, I'm not sure how unbiased my views will seem :)

Being able to change the item that appears in the box is not something new here. It is advantageous as one box will be able to have many uses. I've had a card, money, cloakroom ticket, ring, necklace, earring and more appear in the Destination Box. As Funnymagic says, it's also nice to be able to change what goes in the box on the spur of the moment!

What needs to be said, and this is true for whatever box you are looking to use, is that they are not self-working. No matter how great the craftsmanship is or how wonderful the illusion created by the mechanics of the prop is, you will still need to 'do the move'. If you can't do it well you will fail in the effect. This is why "You are the magic" is so true. No trick will make you famous and if you can't perform it properly, the only fame you might achieve is on a certain video uploading site.

It is true that you have to look at your performing situation and your aims for an effect then decide what you want. Some boxes are very small while others are certainly not. Is the box a feature item of your set or something to keep in your pocket until the start of the card trick? Do you perform for audiences who are likely to grab for the box and want to open it prematurely? What will be the outcome if they do grab it? If you do walkaround magic, is the box suitable or do you need a table to place it on? Can you afford to buy all the versions and swap them in out out for different cirumstances? :)

Personally, I don't care what shape a box is and don't care what it looks like. I think Bob's box looks really nice and what does it matter that it's round?

As has been said, the bottom line is whether the box fulfills the criteria you want from your own performances and whether you can feel comfortable using it in your performing environment/s.
Message: Posted by: Bob Kohler (Sep 15, 2010 06:31PM)
Great post Jon!

Props are really magician's tools. It's best to have to have the right tool for the job. Next you have to know how to use a tool properly.

Usually a specific tool made to do one job will do it better than a tool that does many jobs. A Swiss Army Knife will do many things OK but if you need a screwdriver you'd be better off with a real screwdriver.

The LIghtning Box was developed for workers. Most workers will probably use the Lightning Box in one specific way but the option is there to quickly change objects.

I agree with Jon, the bottom line is you have to find the best tool for the job that meets your needs.
Message: Posted by: Luke Dancy (Sep 17, 2010 06:22PM)
The first time I saw the Lightning Box I was thinking to myself "*** someone did it!" I've always been a big fan of the object to impossible place plot and this release is a perfect worker piece. I used the Kennedy Mystery box for years (I wrapped it up in birthday wrapping paper) and used it for special occasions at the restaurant I was performing in.

The great thing about the Lightning Box is that it fits in your pocket perfectly! The Mystery Box does the job but it always felt awkward sitting there. The fact that you can show the box before and after the revelation is also a great step forward in my opinion.

Do I like Bob Kohler?...yes
Do I like the Lightning Box?...yes
Should you get one?...yes

luke
Message: Posted by: andykean (Sep 18, 2010 10:28PM)
I have ordered, (and will use my brilllliant Jo Allen destination box for differing performance circumstances)

these are "just" tools, but imho quality tools are required to produce a quality job( show)
Message: Posted by: Bob Kohler (Sep 20, 2010 02:24PM)
The old saying is "It's a poor craftsman that blames his tools". As magicians we must learn to use our tools to get the maximum effect from them.

But not all tools have the same quality or precision. That's why you can spend $300 or $3000 on a table saw.
Tools like the Lightning Box are built with precision as a foundational concept. It's built to do one job and do it well. A good tool should do the job and last a long time. Purchasing a good tool is an investment, getting a poor tool always ends in frustration.

Posted: Sep 23, 2010 9:38pm
I'd like to thank everyone who has participated in the pre-order sale of the Lightning Box.

The pre-order sale is now officially over! The first shipment will go out as soon as possible.
We are in the final stages of preparation.

We are still taking orders but the retail price is now in place. Murphy's Magic Supplies is handling the worldwide distribution. The product will start arriving at dealers in mid-October. You can still be one of the very first magicians on the planet to get a Lightning Box by ordering it direct from us. http://www.bobkohlermagic.com.

The Lightning Box will not be a discount item through dealers.

Posted: Sep 26, 2010 7:28pm
I'll doing a demo of the Lightning Box at our booth in the dealer room at the Innovention Convention!
Message: Posted by: andykean (Oct 1, 2010 08:20PM)
Any news on shipment dates Bob?

Posted: Oct 2, 2010 11:38pm
Just got email its on its way
Great news!
Message: Posted by: Bob Kohler (Oct 3, 2010 10:53AM)
I"d like to thank all of our pre-order customers for their patience! I know how hard it is to wait for products.

The Lightning Box has started shipping. We're going as fast as we can filling the pre-orders. I expect everybody on our list will have the Lightning Box shipped and in the mail by Tuesday or sooner.

We finished the training DVD several months ago and since it's completion many new ideas have come to us.
I'm planning on putting our ideas and any other great ideas our customers share with us on video. So if you have anything you'd like to contribute please let me know. No idea is too crazy! I'd like to share these ideas and build a Lightning Box community.

Here's a crazy idea I've been using the LIghtning Box as a holdout for the extra pea in my Shell Game routine. It's the perfect place to hide the extra pea. Add in some Bob Sheets double pea work and it's a killer. I'll put the full explanation out when we get to the video.
Message: Posted by: Steven Conner (Oct 6, 2010 04:00PM)
Just got today and this thing is awesome!! All the hype is over. Good job Bob.

Steve
Message: Posted by: doug brewer (Oct 7, 2010 03:28PM)
Got it. It's great. Super job, Bob.
Message: Posted by: deliveryboy (Oct 8, 2010 02:03PM)
Excellent product Bob my faith is restored on pre-orders.
John
Message: Posted by: Tim Trono (Oct 9, 2010 12:45AM)
This is SO good. I've been working on it and showed Bob an idea I had with it where the spectator removes their own playing card from the box. Bob plans on having additional clips of various ideas and I have given him permission too include this idea. For pros, the Lightning Box will be your new closer. There are cheaper ways to go and many variations on the card to can/box plot but this one is clearly one of the very best. If money is a concern, there are some nice handlings out there (I'd recommend tracking down a copy of Toibox). If you want an amazing high quality professional prop then you should look into the Lightning Box, E-Case, or Destination Box. The Lightning Box is the new closer for me. It's a fantastic end all solution to this classic plot for the serious worker.

I have heard a few magicians say that the idea of showing the box empty in the end (through using Kennedy's Mystery Box or Kohler's Lightning Box) is just for magicians and is overkill. I can tell you from experience it is not. It is a subliminal thing that cements the effect in the mind of the audience and totally pulls away ANY explanation just leaving one... magic. It gets an amazing reaction.

Kohler outdid himself on this. It's really good and one of the highlight items on 2010.

Tim
Message: Posted by: andykean (Oct 12, 2010 04:20AM)
Just arrived in New Zealand

This is pure quality,

Thanks Bob
Message: Posted by: Bob Kohler (Oct 12, 2010 10:12AM)
It was great to meet so many new friends at Paul Stone's Innovention 2010 convention. It was our first opportunity to get immediate feedback from showing the Lightning Box.

The best part was how many really good ideas were pouring out the all of the creative minds at the convention.

I am collecting the ideas and we will be sharing them with you as soon as we can.

The most "Out Of The Box" idea came from Tim Trono. His idea is special. I've know Tim for years and he's always coming up with improvements that really have a heart.

This idea will only make sense when you can see it on a video but Tim's concept does two interesting things. First, he changed the moment for the switch. Second, he eliminated the shuttle pass!

We're still caught up in the beginnings of the Lightning Box release but as time allows in the coming months we will get the best ideas published.

A side note. Those of you who attended the Innovention already know what a great convention it was. Paul did an outstanding job of putting a convention together that had great talent framed in a very comfortable format at a hotel that was just the right size. I actually had time between events to spend quality time with everybody. The event venues were close to each other so it was really easy to not only get from place to place but to find who you were looking for.

One event should out. Teller's lecture on "The Red Ball" was for me the finest lecture I've ever seen at a magic convention. I could easily spend hours writing 5000 words about Teller's presentation. I won't do that though because I simply could not do justice to his fantastic routine and his impeccable presentation.

I'm sorry to tell you that you missed one of the most important magic experiences I've ever witnessed.
I truly hope Teller does this lecture again in the future because magicians NEED to see and begin to understand just how special Teller is to the magic community. The lessons in his lecture were in many layers. His dedication, work ethic and relentless pursuit of perfection were just a few of the many thoughts that were flooding into my mind.

If you have an opportunity to witness Teller's lecture do whatever it takes to get there. You will be rewarded.

If you are coming to Las Vegas make sure you see the Penn & Teller Show at the Rio. Teller is currently performing "The Red Ball" in the show. I've been watching and enjoying their show since the 1980's. Their show constantly takes me to new places. They probably have more "A" material that's NOT in their show than any performer(s) I can think of. So how long will The Red Ball be in the show, I have no idea but I can guarantee that you really don't want to miss it.
Message: Posted by: Mac_Stone (Oct 13, 2010 11:27PM)
The Lightning Box seems to me to be the kind of gimmick Mike Close would have wished he had when he was developing his The Big Surprise routine, I think this gimmick lends itself very nicely to that very well thought out routine.
Message: Posted by: doug brewer (Oct 14, 2010 10:25AM)
I fooled a very well seasoned magician with this box recently. He recognized what was coming, saw the shuttle, but was very perplexed by the empty box afterwards. For the laity, the reality is what they see. I use the poker chip right now, but all kinds of possibilities.
Message: Posted by: tdowell (Oct 14, 2010 11:54PM)
This is a very nice item that, like many of Mr. Kohler's items, has obviously been worked and re-worked to refine the final product into a professional grade routine.

An earlier version of this was produced by Magic Wagon and was called the "Black Box Mystery". The method is identical, however the Lightning Box adds technical improvements to the gimmick and provides you with dvd instructions and preparation materials, which the Black Box did not. The Lightning Box is also slightly larger allowing for an extra item like the poker chip, and, it is less awkward to handle than the old Black Box (which is no longer available).

Both the Lightning Box and Black Box allow you to do the "spectator removes the card from the box" with no shuttle pass gig. That is a definite mind burn for your spectator and one reason this may be my choice of method. I should mention however that I also like John Allen's Destination Box method, in particular due to the signed card being removed from a separate box that is first removed from the Destination Box then opened by the spectator, who also removes the card themselves. For any card to box routine, I think the spectator removing the card from the box is a big deal as it cements the impossibility in the spectator's mind.

The one thing the Black Box Mystery came with that the Lightning Box does not was a duplicate ungimmicked box, which allowed the spectator to examine the box assuming you could switch it out and the spectator asked in the first place. That might be a nice accessory prop for the Lightning Box, but is probably not necessary in most instances as the heat will be on the card itself. I don't recall a spectator ever asking me to examine the box in any of these card to box routines (Mystery Box, Destination Box, Black Box, etc.).

I'm happy with this item and highly recommend it. Excellent product and a stunning effect. Nice work Mr. Kohler!
Message: Posted by: takeachance (Oct 15, 2010 01:27AM)
Does anyone have the Tommy Wonder box to compare the advantages between it and the Lightning Box? What are the advantages?
Message: Posted by: Tony Curtis (Oct 15, 2010 01:28AM)
[quote]
On 2010-10-15 00:54, tdowell wrote:
An earlier version of this was produced by Magic Wagon and was called the "Black Box Mystery".[/quote]

Black Box Mystery was indeed originally put out by Magic Wagon Bangkok Thailand. If you look at Martins Magic http://www.martinsmagic.com you will also see that he acquired one 24 May 2008.

Tony Curtis
Message: Posted by: Bob Kohler (Oct 15, 2010 07:51AM)
I spent the last few evenings working a hospitality suite here in Las Vegas. I used the Lightning Box about 20 times.

The routine that just tore the audiences to pieces was the combination of using The Q-Quantum System index with the Lightning Box.

The handling that I put on the DVD is exactly the one I used. It's called Invisible Lightning.

It's super easy to do. The choreography is totally natural. There is nothing for the audience to grasp onto. The routine takes everything away from them. The opening proving sequence using the poker chip cements the level of deception. Once they buy into this lie they simply cannot put it together.

Once you try this routine you'll be as addicted to it as I am.

I've already built some prototype Lightning Boxes that are solid and examinable. I don't think this is necessary but they can be useful. I'll give you an example.

I've done the Shell Game for decades. At trade shows I always left the Shells in a glass with the plastic Perfect Pea from School for Scoundrels. I kept the rubber peas in my pocket. Now when the salesman check out your props which they always do they can't get the darned Shells to work at all as the plastic pea will not come out.

I think this is a great strategy for the solid Lightning Box. Switch out on an off beat and just leave it somewhere in plain sight where the audience can get to it but NEVER call attention to it or have it be examined. Another point is you only need one lid. I'm currently working on some switches that not only ring in the solid box but give you one more payoff.

We'll release them as soon as we can but I expect this will take a couple of months.
Message: Posted by: Joe Mauro (Oct 15, 2010 10:20AM)
How does this rate with the Tivoli Box? In that trick

#1 No flaps or duplicate cards
#2 Normal-looking box which may be examined before and after the effect
#3 Instantly resets
#4 No shuttle pass-the spectator may remove their own signed card from the box!
Message: Posted by: Tim Trono (Oct 15, 2010 04:10PM)
The Black Box and Kohler's Lightning Box are different. I purchased the Black Box for myself and was rather unhappy with it for a number of reasons... one was simply the look of it. The lid was way out of proportion (over sized) to the box - it looks very strange. . I am not sure why it was designed like this but I felt that it called undue attention to the box. The real workings were also different. Typically the items put out by Magic Wagon are of high quality and thus my expectations were not met personally. But that is just me on this one particular item and something to be at least aware of when making your decision. I was also personally disappointed by the Billet Box. I just feel that the discrepancy (you'll know what I mean if you have it) was obvious.

I am familiar with most of the boxes out there as I love this plot but the Lightning Box is the one I'll be using.

The Tommy Wonder Box is great. I had 2 recently built for me by Tabby Crabb (Tabman) and was very very happy with the quality. He does a fantastic job. It's not cheap but it is good. On the Tommy Wonder Box you cannot show the container empty afterwards. The strength of Tommy's box is really his fold... you showed such a tiny box. He also offered a great idea on the shuttle pass aspect.

The Tivoli Box is also a rather unknown one but good. The one down inside of this is that you cannot show the card inside prior. I am a big fan of Arthur Tivoli's work and if you have not seen his 2 DVDs you are missing out on a lot of great magic. His card box is in his second DVD. One idea I had with the Tivoli Box if you use that is to have several ready and have them gift wrapped so that the spectator unwraps the box and you produce the card from inside.

What the Lightning Box offers many things (but I'll focus on the main things) is 1) the ability to show the box empty before, during, and after as you see fit. Some may argue this is a magicians point but from experience that argument is not valid. Certainly you don't want to point it out that the box is empty but having the container empty after the card is revealed wipes out any and all explanations (this could be done with the Kennedy Box, Destination Box, a box Steve Valentine made for a few people including myself, Toibox, Viking's Billet Box, Southworth's Tin Box, etc.), 2) it allows you to have other items inside the box for the Jamy Ian Swiss idea of supposedly dumping multiple objects out of the box and 3) it offers a really classy looking box that is easily carried with you. The Lightening Box (like the Destination Box) allows youth to use various objects (not possible with Mystery Box, Tin Opener, etc.).

One I'd recommend, if you can find it, is the booklet Toibox. I thought there were/are some great ideas in this booklet on this plot. Jon Allen's Destination Box is also very good. It's large so is not easily carried but I have seen Jon fry people with it. It offers something like a nest of boxes. I have also used the Mystery Box. As mentioned, the one I am/will be using now is the Lightning Box - strong, portable, classy, versatile, etc.. I am sure many ideas will come into being with this (thanks for the kind words on my idea Bob) - I know many others like myself who have received one who have started already brainstorming and finding new uses, handlings, etc. I am happy to share my idea with anyone who gets it. I believe Bob will be offering clips of additional ideas and have given Bob permission to share my idea of having the spectator take the card out (no shuttle pass is used).


Tim
Message: Posted by: Jon Allen (Oct 15, 2010 06:11PM)
Tim, I thought you *can* show the card inside the Tivoli box prior. DO you mean prior to it being taken out? Surely, you pick it up off the table, lift off the lid and there is the card?

The Destination Box is larger than most but as for 'not easily carried' I beg to differ. It is not something that fits into your jacket pocket to be brought out at the beginning of a card trick. Likewise, I don't need to wheel it round on a trolley! I carry it between tables/groups and the first thing I do is hand it to someone or set it down on the table in front of them. (As it is padlocked, there is no worry it will be prematurely opened.) The size of it is a non-issue. I actually make a feature of the box and base the performance around it which cannot be done with other boxes. It seems that Bob's box is also large enough for it to be a feature item. What is the diameter of the box?
Message: Posted by: hefemexy (Oct 15, 2010 08:32PM)
I just used the Lightining box in my show tonight, and I just have to say anyone who is doing this craft professionaly will know the value of it. When ever I read most of the threads on here of people speaking on a product I simply ask myself, are they really workers. Not just hobbiest or part-timers, but really workers Bob thank you once more and you as well Jon, I use your Double back religiously in my show.
Message: Posted by: MagicLaw (Oct 15, 2010 09:55PM)
I'm going to apologize in advance to Bob Kohler for this review because it is not flattering for his Lightning Box and I'm sure he will be reading this. I have a large collection of similar boxes that can be used for predictions, billet switches, signed card in box, etc. After all of the pre-release praise for the Lightning Box and the video teaser, I took the plunge and pre-ordered mine a few months back. The package arrived this week and I've had a chance to play with the Lightning Box over the past few days. Several things struck me as disappointing right out of the box.

First, the outside of the plastic was not smooth and polished as I expected since it was described as something that might pass for a beautiful little jewelry box. Rather, there were scuffs that appear to be from machining during the manufacturing process.

Second, without giving too much detail due to the secret, the box includes the use of some small pices of soft black cloth material that is not supposed to be seen by the audience. Unfortunately, the material on my box was not installed very well and hangs out quite a bit--making it obvious and visible to the naked eye.

Third, this trick requires smooth and concise motion of certain parts, and my unit consistently snags so that the trick does not work properly. The instructions indicate how to lubricate the unit for easier movement, but I feel like it should have been pre-lubricated and tested before shipping (or come with a small supply of lubricant) rather than requiring me to go out and buy lubricant upon arrival before I can make the trick work properly.

IMHO, these are all indications of a lack of quality control in the manufacturing process, which is disappointing for the large price tag on the Lightning Box.

Now, in all fairness, let me add that Bob Kohler's design and mechanics used in the Lightning Box are truly novel and represent an ingenious improvement on a utility prop that can be used for a very wide range of close-up miracles. Once perfected a bit more, this will be a must-have in every close-up worker's arsenal. Ultimately, I just wish a little more quality control had gone into the final manufacturing process before it arrived at my doorstep. Hopefully future product runs will address the problems I've raised.
Message: Posted by: Xcath1 (Oct 16, 2010 01:34AM)
I am troubled by the post by MagicLaw. I was considering treating myself to this. I realize as far as the effect goes, take it or leave it. I am surprised however for there to be a question of the quality of a relatively simple prop at this price. I hope Bob addresses these concersns.
Message: Posted by: Bob Kohler (Oct 16, 2010 11:39AM)
I will replace this defective Lighting Box for one that works perfect.

Quality control is a major factor in all of the magic we've produced over the years. The Lightning Box is no exception. I apologize that a unit that has flaws was shipped. I'll certainly take care of any customers that have received a Lightning Box that is not up to our standard.

The Lightning Box is designed to be a workhorse for professionals. There are a few points I'd like to clarify.

The finish on the Lightning Box was chosen for two reasons.

1)The matte style finish isn't polished on purpose. There are two reasons.
The first is so that fingerprints don't show up as much. We tested polishing the finish and performers would have to constantly clean the outside of the box to remove the fingerprints if we had polished the box.

The second reason is to provide some amount of grip so it's easier to hold the box.
A polished the box is simply more difficult to hold onto. Add in some perspiration during performance and you'll really appreciate the way the Lightning Box is finished.

I obviously need to see this Lightning Box to determine if the aforementioned scuffs are part of the machining process and are normal or if the box was damaged.

The black felt is used to dampen the sound. Installed correctly it's out of sight.

This Lightning Box has a mechanical problem. I will fix it.

The Lightning Box comes completely prepared and lubricated. The lubrication is really just there to help the parts in the beginning during the break in process. The more you use it the better it will get.

My prototype was made last November and has not needed any further lubrication. I've used it extensively during the testing process. The included instructions contain information about where to get the lubricant just in case it ever becomes necessary. It's a very common product available in any bicycle shop or on-line for $2.50. Most will never need it.

This Lightning Box is the exception not the rule. We will learn from this experience.

I've been making high end magic now for 14 years. I'm not going anywhere. I strive for perfection but it's impossible to get it right 100% of the time. Occasionally I do make mistakes. But I take care of our customers and any problems they have. The feedback from this first batch has been very rewarding. There are now 100 in the hands of magicians world-wide.
Message: Posted by: MagicLaw (Oct 16, 2010 12:01PM)
Thanks for the response, Bob. This is my first time to purchase one of your products, but I'm certainly aware that your reputation for excellent quality precedes you. My wife is due to give birth to our new son any day now, but after things settle down I'll get in touch to coordinate the return/exchange. I really appreciate that you are standing behind your product like that, which is extremely important to me as a buyer. The method, concept, and potential range of effects with your Lightning Box is fantastic, so I definitely look forward to receiving and using a properly working model that I can integrate into my performances! Thanks again for incredible customer service!
Message: Posted by: Xcath1 (Oct 16, 2010 12:42PM)
I know this is a public forum but that was the kind of answer I was hoping for as a potential custome, my order goes out today.
Message: Posted by: lucavolpe (Oct 16, 2010 02:50PM)
Im waiting mine (to combine with "Q") as I have some important gig of close up magic in the next months. Im sure that Bob will take care of me if I will have some problem.
In my live mind show I perform the Human Phone Number from years now and never had problems.all the products that Bob put out are all for working performers, so Im sure sure that also this one will be good as the other ones.
I will post my review as soon I will get it!
:)
Message: Posted by: Ingo Brehm (Oct 18, 2010 04:28AM)
This tool is a fantastic addition for every working performers repertoire. As you need basically only two sleights which should be in the arsenal of any serious close-up magician it can go right into your show. I use it as a finale for my ambitious card routine and showed it about twenty times during a job last weekend. The box works perfectly and fooled everyone. You did once again a great job, Bob.
Message: Posted by: Hanno (Oct 19, 2010 04:24PM)
I got the box last week and replaced my "normal" Box with it.
What can I say? Its a worker, it fools everyone and there are so many new possibilities.
The best investment I have made for a long time. Found the way in my program within few days.
It is so good I shall not take it to my next magic circle meeting...... ;-)
Message: Posted by: Bob Kohler (Oct 19, 2010 04:25PM)
I'm attending the Mindvention Convention in Vegas. Lot's of great stuff. The mentalist crowd is buzzing about using the Lightning Box with Cosmo Solano's Q Quantum System. Together they are a very powerful combination for any mentalist. The routine on the training DVD is quickly becoming the most used routine because using the Q eliminates the need to master the Mercury Fold or any other folding method. All you need to do is one simple move.

Thanks for the kind words Ingo. Glad to hear of your success with the Lightning Box.
Message: Posted by: learachel (Oct 20, 2010 07:51AM)
The best investment I have made for a long time too! Really!
many possibilities.


simon

belgium
Message: Posted by: polygonsmagic (Oct 20, 2010 09:29AM)
I remarked early on that the Lightening Box in the photos on Bob's site showed exactly as MagicLaw describes. Since Bob didn't address this, I presumed it was his own prototype or something that he wouldn't be shipping to customers.

It sounds like a nice tool, however I guess I'll wait until I start hearing that this nasty bit has been rectified.
Message: Posted by: lucavolpe (Oct 20, 2010 11:32AM)
Just received today!
So, the props is VERY professional and works wonder there are many little touch that make this a piece for worker performer.
The dvd is amazing and explain everything you need to know (and more...) in details (included great routines!).
Few extra stuff is also included and the packaging is perfect.
I bought this to use with Quantum Connection (from Cosmo Solanao) and is like a dream!
10/10
Luca Volpe
Message: Posted by: polygonsmagic (Oct 20, 2010 01:12PM)
Anyone seen Tony Miller's new index? I have heard that it is much cheaper than the Q and easier to access, however I have not seen the workings.
Message: Posted by: Doomo (Oct 20, 2010 08:27PM)
Oh... Well, both work... A.I. Is much more flexible. But The Q is more durable but the cost can be prohibitive to some. A.I. does not require a performer to wear a jacket or work out of your pants pocket. Both can be used very effectively. I hope that helps.

Tony
Message: Posted by: jerdunn (Oct 20, 2010 10:49PM)
Any other reviews for the Lightning Box?

Bob K. reports that many have been sold, so if you owners want to chime in with thoughts, discoveries, and opinions, it would be welcome.

Thanks!
Jerry
Message: Posted by: Joe Mauro (Oct 20, 2010 10:54PM)
Will a future version be made with a 'square' design like a jewelry ring box?
Message: Posted by: lucavolpe (Oct 21, 2010 07:09AM)
I don't think the square box will work good as this one.
This has a very good grip and also this one can be a kind of "ring box".
Honestly I use this for close up mentalism and using with "Q" I present as mystery black box and I leave on the table during the performance. Is quite nice as looks like a misterious box...
Message: Posted by: TrickyRicky (Oct 21, 2010 09:36AM)
My order was with the first batch. I haven't received my as yet.
I contacted Bob and he was quick to reply from Mindvention.
He will look in-to the problem after the convention.
Tricky Ricky
Message: Posted by: Steven Conner (Oct 21, 2010 11:32AM)
[quote]
On 2010-10-20 23:49, jerdunn wrote:
Any other reviews for the Lightning Box?

Bob K. reports that many have been sold, so if you owners want to chime in with thoughts, discoveries, and opinions, it would be welcome.

Thanks!
Jerry
[/quote]

Hey Jerry, this is going to open up a lot of possibilities. It is everything Bob said and more.

Steve
Message: Posted by: Bob Kohler (Oct 21, 2010 01:34PM)
One thing that has surprised me is the many different ways each performer is approaching their use of the LIghtning Box.

I had the opportunity to talk to a lot of folks at the Innovention Convention and Mindvention the last two weeks. Almost everybody has a different way to integrate the Lightning Box into their program.

The two major creative uses were what objects to use and the choreography leading to the ending. I absolutely love hearing of the new ideas. I'm not at liberty to divulge the ideas that have been shared with me but I hope some of these ideas and concepts will be shared.
Message: Posted by: jerdunn (Oct 22, 2010 10:56AM)
Well, I'll share an idea and hope that others will, too:

This is an idea for using the Lightning Box with Cosmo Solano’s Q (the best index I know).

Lift the lid off the Lightning Box and explain that the inside is like the human imagination. It’s a mysterious and shadowy place . . . empty, yet full of possibilities.

Who knows what might appear there -- new ideas, art, inventions, music? The imagination is wide open. All we have to do is use it.

Replace the lid, and set the box on the table. Now have a spectator use his imagination in a sort of “invisible deck” presentation. Using an imaginary deck alone, the spectator eliminates cards until only one is left. Any random process will do – toss cards away, burn them, eat them, whatever – since there’s no equivoque.

At the conclusion, the spectator is holding a single imaginary card. Ask him to fold the card in half. Now he sees the red back in his mind's eye. He folds it once more, the other way.

Ask if he remembers the empty box of imagination, which has been sitting on the table in plain view the whole time?

“Please toss your imaginary card inside the box.” The spectator makes a throwing gesture. “Remember, anything you can imagine, you can make real.”

Lift the lid off the Lightning Box. A folded red card has appeared inside! “What card did you end up with in your imagination? The six of spades? Let’s see . . .”

Dump the card out of the box, and have the spectator unfold it. It’s the six of spades, the card he imagined. Ta-dah.

This presentation puts all the focus on the spectator, giving you ample misdirection and time for doing what you have to do with the Q.

I haven’t received my Lightning Box yet, but I’m thinking. I hope some of the ideas that Bob K. mentioned will be shared here.

Cheers,
Jerry
Message: Posted by: polygonsmagic (Oct 22, 2010 11:10AM)
“Remember, anything you can imagine, you can make real.”

At this point, I'd be imagining a lump of gold or a naked woman rather than a stupid card. :)
Message: Posted by: hefemexy (Oct 22, 2010 11:28AM)
Hey Bob, I will be going on a radio talk show this sunday the 24th, it will be broadcasting live @ http://www.fendersden.com between 6pm to 9pm. I will be using the lightning box in my set.
Message: Posted by: jerdunn (Oct 22, 2010 01:37PM)
Polygonsmagic --

Ask Bob Kohler about the "naked woman bonus pack" for the Lightning Box :)

Cheers,
Jerry
Message: Posted by: jerdunn (Oct 23, 2010 08:21AM)
Any Lightning Box owners out there? Or should we start a thread in Secret Sessions to discuss ideas and presentations?

Jerry
Message: Posted by: Steven Conner (Oct 23, 2010 08:46AM)
[quote]
On 2010-10-23 09:21, jerdunn wrote:
Any Lightning Box owners out there? Or should we start a thread in Secret Sessions to discuss ideas and presentations?

Jerry
[/quote]

I think that would be more appropriate.
Message: Posted by: jerdunn (Oct 23, 2010 09:55AM)
Okay, here we are: http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=386341&forum=37&2&start=0#1

Click to discuss ideas, presentations, handlings, and so on for the Lightning Box.

Thanks,
Jerry
Message: Posted by: Bob Kohler (Oct 26, 2010 08:03PM)
Nice routine Jerry...
The Secret Session thread should get very interesting!
Message: Posted by: mattjohnson (Oct 28, 2010 01:18AM)
Thanks for showing me this at Mindvention Bob!!! Very very kind of you. Needless to say I loved it, ingenious and very cool are words that come to mind!

It was a real pleasure getting to hang out with you a little bit!!

All the best,

MJ
Message: Posted by: Bob Kohler (Oct 30, 2010 12:00PM)
Hi Matt,
Mindvention was a blast and as usual a great intimate hang. The reaction to the LIghtning Box from the mentalist crowd was overwhelming. It was great to hear so many novel uses from many creative minds.

Your Haunted Deck's method was so far "out of the box" I'm not sure you're human. Great thinking!
Message: Posted by: Bob Kohler (Nov 2, 2010 09:55AM)
Update

We sold out of the initial run of Lightning Boxes almost immediately. The parts for the second batch have finally arrived and are now being assembled.

I'd like to thank those who have been waiting for their patience. You order will be shipping asap!
Message: Posted by: Bob Kohler (Nov 9, 2010 02:51PM)
The LIghtning Box is now back in stock!
Message: Posted by: jerdunn (Nov 9, 2010 05:58PM)
I just got my Lightning Box. It's a fantastic item -- works perfectly, looks great. I'll post a review in a few days, after some test-driving with persons outside my own household.

Good video instruction, too. I bought the box primarily to use with Q, a great combination.

Cheers,
Jerry
Message: Posted by: learachel (Nov 11, 2010 03:35AM)
I try yesterday for the first time! big big reaction

s.

belgium
Message: Posted by: chinotto (Nov 17, 2010 03:45AM)
[quote]
On 2010-11-09 15:51, Bob Kohler wrote:
The LIghtning Box is now back in stock!
[/quote]

I'm interested in buying either this box or the John Kennedy box for walk around magic where I'd like the signed card to end up in an impossible location. My need is specific - I only need to reveal red backed card - and I'd like the box to sit on a spectators hand until the reveal. Given that situation I sense that although this has a size (and good pocket fit) advabtage it wil not able to rest on the spectators naked palm. Do I have that right?

Thanks in advance for the help here.
Message: Posted by: Xcath1 (Nov 17, 2010 07:19AM)
I recently tried this "outside the house", it really does work. I was not sure how it would play because although plain looking, it is a "prop".
I have a little sticker on the top that says "Dog House" and at the beginning of the routine. I show 2 small doggy treats inside the box. I then do an ambitious card routine with a blank faced deck and the spectator drawing a dog on one of the cards. After the well trained dog “finds his way” back to the top of the deck a few times he disappears and where do you think he winds up.
It is such an easy prop to use that you can truly focus on your performance. I had a lot of “DL” experts burning me with suspicion during some of the AC phase but nobody saw me “get that card into the box” and nobody reached for the box after I put the treats back in the empty box at the end of the routine.

You could have a spectator hold it in a flat out stretched palm.
You would have to know your spectator, know that they would not fiddle, etc. I have not used a Kennedy box so don’t know how they compare. Having it in the spectators hand might violate the “too perfect” principal.
Message: Posted by: jerdunn (Nov 17, 2010 12:33PM)
Xcath -That's a nice addition to David Regal's "doggie" presentation for the Ambitious Card. Your use of a blank-faced deck is a great idea.

I've had the Lightning Box for about a week now, using it with Cosmo Solano's Q i***x.

My presentation was shamelessly "adapted" from John Archer's version of Kolossal Killer ("Educating Archer" DVD). For this you need to narrow the spectator's choice, so you draw on a pad to comedically force the person to end up with "red" and "hearts." Then they choose the actual card.

The absurd humor masks the f***e of a suit very nicely and adds to the entertainment value. I also like this approach because it means I only need 1/4 of the Q in my pocket.

My Lightning Box works perfectly. It's so easy to operate that it takes all the pressure off the final moment. A platypus could do the required move with no problem.

The round black box is nondescript enough to attract little attention (which is good). It's just a box.

I'm also working on a presentation in which the box contains my lucky piece (an old silver dollar) and my lucky card. The spectator gets to touch my lucky piece, and amazingly this helps her guess my lucky card. Again, the Q is used.

I haven't even gotten around to putting other things (like a dummy bill) in the box. But I'm thinking of using it for a confabulation routine (the prediction would be in the box).

I recommend the Lightning Box highly.

Cheers,
Jerry
Message: Posted by: Larry Davidson (Nov 20, 2010 02:38PM)
There are many "tools" in magic, including gimmicks. The wise magician picks the right tools for the particular job. Deciding to avoid gimmicks as a rule is foolish.

Dumping an object out of a container into your free hand is completely natural IF it's properly motivated.
Message: Posted by: Potty the Pirate (Nov 20, 2010 02:59PM)
Though I'm a fan of Bob Kohler's products, this is one I don't "get". I'd be interested to know how folks would really compare it to the Kennedy Box, which from my perception is superior. Someone earlier in this thread pointed out the "huge discrepancy" with the Lightning Box - and I tend to agree. The videos of the performance have this "discrepancy" which you're going to have to cover with something - business, routining, or whatever.
OK, I know I'm a magician, so I'm on the look out for things that don't look "right" - but with the Lightning Box, it really jumped out at me big time. Of course, many spectators will NOT notice this "discrepancy".....but surely, many will? Unless, as I say, the "move" is well covered.
For me, the "move" is just TOO blatant and obvious.
That's my opinion having watched the demo.......am I being too critical?
By the way, I agree that using gimmicks to complement your skills and sleights is perfectly legitimate - indeed, I'd say "neccessary" - if you want to keep up with the competition. No amount of sleight-of-hand can accomplish some of the things which can be achieved with sopisticated gimmicks. My close-up set is probably 70% gimmicks, and 30% skill, sleights, routining, and improvisation. It works very well for me.
Potty :)
Message: Posted by: Sock Puppet Monkey (Nov 20, 2010 03:30PM)
What is the box actually made of? The effect looks good but I don't (personal opinion) care for the look of the box itself.
Message: Posted by: Steven Conner (Nov 20, 2010 05:22PM)
[quote]
On 2010-11-20 13:51, zipper wrote:
Magic folks,

By contrast, look at Cloutier's pen thru bill (on his Bill in Kiwi DVD). It's a stunner and he doesn't use a gimmicked bill or a gimmicked pen (at least I don't think he does). It's sheer stage presence and cleverness, along with common items, that allow him to pull it off. Dealers, however, would have us buy these "pen props" that are fixed in such a way that you can do a bill penetration but you then have to swap one pen for another; the perfect pen is a worthy exception but even it screams gimmicked pen when you perform it in the real world. Cloutier's does not.

Magical things,
Zipper
[/quote]

Comparing Pen to the Box is like comparing a lightning bug to a lightning bolt. Not sure if you really know Cloutier's trick. This is certainly not the place to discuss and not even sure if necessary.

Steve
Message: Posted by: jerdunn (Nov 20, 2010 06:01PM)
Responding to Zipper's long post:
He wrote: "When you see a performer who is long on manual skill and presentation, and short on mechanical gadgetry, gizmos, and props, it's a beauty to behold. A performer who goes from one prop to another (though some props are very valuable and enhance a performance) doesn't usually present the air of mystery and create a sense of wonder in their audiences that all the greats in our craft are able to do."

I agree, if you're talking about a performer who has a table full of tubes, boxes, and other paraphernalia -- props that apparently "do" the magic, rather than the magician doing it.

But what about time-tested stage props such as a wooden nest of boxes? Is this a weak crutch, or does it create a strong, baffling trick?

I also like Kennedy's Mystery Box, but . . . what exactly is it supposed to be? A tiny wooden box coincidentally just big enough for a folded card? Does it therefore appear to be a magic prop that somehow does the work for the magician?

I also like the Lightning Box. It looks sort of like a cufflinks box, or the presentation boxes that watches come in, but most important it's basically nondescript and doesn't attract undue attention to itself. (Elaborately inlaid wooden boxes, for example, may look "proppy" to real people but magicians/collectors love them.)

Like most magicians, I've bought my share of tricky boxes, wallets, and gizmos. Zipper, too -- I noticed that you posted some inquiries about the Viking Chest of Nostradamus, which is a wooden chest hanging from chains that's used for an Any Card at Any Number type effect. (Hmm, the spectator might think, did the box have anything to do with this trick? Otherwise, why didn't the magician just have the boxed deck sitting on the table?)

For me, the Lightning Box is a handy tool for creating a thoroughly baffling effect. I think the shuttle-pass dump looks better with this prop than with a Kennedy Box. (Exception: Cosmo Solano's highly original take on the shuttle dump is visually perfect.) The illusion is aided by having other items in the box -- e.g., a lucky coin or whatever -- which you can't do with the Kennedy Box.

Potty: In my admittedly limited experience so far, the discrepancy when you do the dump with the Lightning Box is not noticed. The attention of the spectator(s) goes naturally to the item (e.g., folded card) that is seen first in the box and then in the hand. By the time attention goes back to the box (if it ever does), the box looks as it should, empty and normal.

To answer my own question above, I like the nested boxes on stage -- e.g., object to impossible location that's been in plain view -- and for the same reason I like the Lightning Box.

Cheers,
Jerry
Message: Posted by: zipper (Nov 20, 2010 08:53PM)
Reply to Jerry,

I found your response a reasoned one. My basic point was why buy a prop to do a trick that a practiced performer can do as well without the props. I am not against props that are necessary and heighten the sense of mystery and illusion. Many props, however, are crutches and their use weakens a performer's development as a magician. Coin in a nest of boxes, which I do not own (by the way, I decided against the Chest of Nostradamus because of the price and that the effect can be accomplished by using a regular deck and an invisible or brainwave; not identical but close enough for the people I work for)is a trick in which the props make some sense. I don't think so with the Lightning Box. With the overwhelming number of tricks, DVDs, books, etc. barraging us magicians on a regular basis, it is easy to be seduced by the gadgets and gizmos. You have me at a disadvantage because from your many posts that I've read over the years, it is clear that you know your magic and you actually have used the Lightning Box. If you say it's an item worthy of attention, I know that you have excellent reasons for saying so. However, I do think you can do a comparable effect with straight sleight of hand that will be as deceptive to an audience as is the Lightning Box (and a whole lot cheaper). I think the shuttle pass, though it's popular with magicians, just looks like a move and something that sends up a red flag in the psyche of audience members. Take Cloutier's shuttle pass in the Bill in the Kiwi routine. In the mind of the spectators he has a reason to shuttle the kiwi from one hand to other (getting the knife from his pocket) so no suspicions arise. No reason exists with the shuttle pass in the lightning box routine to dump the contents into the hand (you'd just reach in and extract whatever's there, even truer in you have a poker chip or coins in it), and I think it is suspicious to audience members (and therefore not very deceptive).

Magical things,
Zipper
Message: Posted by: andykean (Nov 20, 2010 09:20PM)
Hi Zipper
having read your post "reply to Jerry"
I thought I might share my thoughts.
I purchased the lightening box and was very impressed with the quality and thought that had gone into the product. I use it with Q and a silver dollar in the box, its very deceptive and enables me to have my prediction in full view prior to the start of my routine ( newsworthy used in this way will I feel be even stronger)
I fundamentally disagree with you about 'reaching into a box to take out the contents', even before I knew what a shuttle pass was, I always tipped the contents of a small box onto my hand. I will give you an everyday example, when taking headache tablets out of container no one I know puts their fingers in and extracts a couple of pills,instead they tip the contents on to their hand.
I think you shouldn't buy this product, as it clearly doesn't fit your performing style.
However to say it produces a red flag in the psyche of the audience simply isn't true.
best wishes
Andy
Message: Posted by: Xcath1 (Nov 20, 2010 10:01PM)
I have to agree with the positive reviews of the box. I will admit that it is possible in the hands of a skilled performer that card to impossible location can be performed for much less expense and possibly with similar audience impact. On that basis alone you may not find it worth the expense to you and indeed I am not sure it represents a good value (however subjective that is).
I have it however (still not sure it’s a “good value”) and it really does work. It has fooled every lay person I have showed it to (I realize there is a great range in the perceptiveness of lay people) and I have been given credit for great skill when in fact little is involved. Also the sturdiness of the prop (I am not afraid to use it) and its airport friendliness are reasonable claims

This brings me to my next verbose point. Lay people I think do not appreciate skill. They may appreciate what they believe to be skill but few are in a position to judge. They appreciate a “magical performance” and to the dismay of many non-funny magicians what that often means is a humorous performance. Having technical skill does not make you an entertaining performer. I know because I am an avowed move monkey and it took me longer then I cared to admit what appealed to a lay audience. I feel strongly that most lay audiences would prefer the amazing Jonathan to Dan and Dave any day (I love watching Dan and Dave and practice their material with frustration often). Likewise relying on props rather than technical skill should not by itself impede your development as a magician. If you apply the rules of successful entertaining, scripting, engagement, etc.

my 35 cents
Message: Posted by: Potty the Pirate (Nov 21, 2010 01:22AM)
Yes, I can see that the misdirection is strong when the box is emptied. Hmmm.....I still prefer the Kennedy Box! Horses for Courses (and, I already own the KB). The Lightning Box looks a little too large for my taste, also...does it easily slip into a jacket pocket without creating a big bulge? Or is it, in fact, a prop that would be more suitable for "formal close up", as seems to be shown in the demo? I almost never perform formal close-up, but walkabout, so everything must fit into my pockets - and therefore I like everything to be as small as possible.
I'd like to mention Nostradamus' Chest, which was referred to above. I have this, and I personally regard it as one of the most baffling effects ever! Admittedly, a similar effect is possible with a BW (I use my BW deck a LOT more than NC). However, NC is really a stage piece - the box hangs in full view throughout the show - which, I believe, justifies the fact that the cards are inside. The box really has nothing to find, and with my routining (a fair bit different than that suggested with the instructions), the most frequent outcome is effectively "The trick that can't be explained". The secret is so devious, and once you know it, perhaps obvious.....but remarkably non-intuitive, the effect is absolutely a "magician fooler".
Potty :)
Message: Posted by: jerdunn (Nov 21, 2010 10:16AM)
Potty,

The Lightning Box is 1 5/8" high and fits in my side jacket pocket without a problem. I haven't carried it anywhere but the local coffee shop (where I try out new routines), but it wasn't bulgy or cumbersome.

You wouldn't have to devote an entire pocket to it, but it does occupy about half the space. (In my case, other pockets are occupied with Q, so this all works out fine for me.)

Cheers,
Jerry
Message: Posted by: martysh (Nov 21, 2010 11:04AM)
Great discussion ...much enjoyed. all valid points really...

I did the light/box last night almost surrounded and it was a golden moment when the SPEC got to take off the lid and look inside as I held the thing...it was a most natural movement to dump all out in my only other awaiting seemingly empty right hand....and was left with a completely empty box.

it's as pure a "moment" as I have ever had in 30+ years of close up

Marty
Message: Posted by: zipper (Nov 21, 2010 03:00PM)
Marty,

The way you describe doing it (where you're holding the box and the spectator removes the lid) is way to do it that would not look suspicious when you dump its contents into your other hand (in my opinion). A nice twist on the way it's presented on the teaser tape. I'm glad using the box went over so well at your performance. I wonder, however, if the moment would not have been as great or greater for you if you had had the spectator hold a box or some other receptacle (ungimmicked), remove the lid, and spy the folded card. The spectator would have given it to you for you to show to all in the audience (by switching the signed card for the unsigned card) the miracle that had occurred in an act of pure sleight-of-hand. You and your prestidigitation would have been at the center of the miracle and not a gimmicked prop (though, of course, we are supposed to assume that the audience does not suspect the lightning box is anything other than a box).

Magical things,
Zipper
Message: Posted by: JanForster (Nov 21, 2010 03:38PM)
Potty, I see your point. It is something I spotted also the first time seeing it as there is a discrepancy of course. But a (at least) decent performer will cover it without any problems.
The rest is a matter of taste and skill. I know that all what Bob puts out is great, but this is simply nothing for me. I still would go with a pill tin...
And the shuttle dump is never a problem. We know, our audience doesn't know or see it provided you've a motivation for doing so. :) Jan
Message: Posted by: martysh (Nov 21, 2010 04:23PM)
Hey Z'...
we're splitting hairs ...to be trite
we both need a "richter scale" of sorts to measure the exact reactions of our specs....no matter the process I went through to the end result....my reading when quietly (gasps and silence) but off the charts at that moment last night.
If you did it the way you just described...you might have simply equalled that reading too.

Marty
Message: Posted by: zipper (Nov 21, 2010 04:54PM)
Marty,

Good point. That's the nice part about magic and all the gadgets, gizmos, and props. Anybody can find a place in it to make his or her mark in any way that he or she feels comfortable.

Happy performing,
Zipper
Message: Posted by: Daren (Nov 22, 2010 01:48PM)
I guess this prop would also work very well with Michael vincents pandoras box? can you show the lightning box empty before placing it on the table or specs hand? and then after the effect show a card inside?? hmmm...... could make pandora's box routine even more powerful?
Message: Posted by: jerdunn (Nov 22, 2010 04:59PM)
Daren -- you can show the Lightning Box empty beforehand.

You could also remove something -- say a coin, leaving the box empty, then perform a quick coin routine and return the coin to the box, which later turns out to have the signed chosen card inside.

Zipper wrote: "The way you describe doing it (where you're holding the box and the spectator removes the lid) is way to do it that would not look suspicious when you dump its contents into your other hand (in my opinion)."

Just to clarify, this is the way it's always performed, as taught on the accompanying DVD. The spectator removes the lid.

Cheers,
Jerry
Message: Posted by: zipper (Nov 22, 2010 05:07PM)
Jerry,

A clarification of my own: My comment was based strictly on a viewing of the teaser tape in which the box is on the table, the performer picks up the box, and dumps the contents into the other hand. I still think it looks more like a "move" than does the method that Marty uses.

Happy trails,
Zipper
Message: Posted by: jerdunn (Nov 22, 2010 08:41PM)
Hi again Zipper,

Two demos in the teaser -- the performance ones with the woman in blue and then the guy in the black Hawaiian shirt -- show the spectator removing the top.

You do have to skip through a lot of blather to get there (jump to about 2:50 in the teaser). This has to be one of the lengthiest, wordiest teasers in magic history. I really like Apollo's magic, but his professorial turn in the teaser is pretty, um, long.

Anyhow, in the teaser you can see exactly how the box handling plays out in performance. (The clips are excerpted from the instructional DVD.)

Cheers,
Jerry
Message: Posted by: zipper (Nov 23, 2010 05:33AM)
Jerry,

Thanks for the information (I will check it out).

Magical things,
Zipper
Message: Posted by: jhostler (Nov 25, 2010 01:13PM)
Lacking the patience to scroll through all six pages of posts, I apologize for any repetition... but CAVEAT EMPTOR:

Watch the demo [which, to Kohler's credit, tips pretty much everything] closely, and make an *informed* purchasing decision. While I'm sure Bob has done nothing to tarnish his rep for top-notch quality, his affinity for Cadillac pricing remains firmly intact. This is nothing more (or less) than a marginally clever modification of an ancient prop you may already possess. Worth $189 in the right hands? Maybe... Maybe...
Message: Posted by: Andrew Zuber (Nov 25, 2010 02:04PM)
I'm confused...because I'm EASILY fooled by these kinds of things. It doesn't take much to get me scratching my head, but I just watched the demo, and the method was so completely obvious that I felt like I was missing something. Is there more to this than what the demo shows, or is it just the handling?

I've seen a lot of Bob's items and I think he's an artist - they're truly fantastic, so this one surprises me.
Message: Posted by: Xcath1 (Nov 25, 2010 03:17PM)
Not speaking to its value but something that may not be fully appreciated in the demo. The box is the appropriate "depth" at all phases of the routine. I may be an idiot, even with "the move" I did not quite know how a truly empty box was seen at the end.
Message: Posted by: andykean (Nov 26, 2010 08:12PM)
Yes
that's the really clever bit!
Message: Posted by: Bob Kohler (Nov 30, 2010 08:15PM)
The Lightning Box is now all over the world. I've received countless emails from new users and the reaction to the Lightning Box has been incredible.

I think the crux is the reaction magicians are getting. The Lightning Box gives you the power a truly test conditions piece of magic provides real workers.
Watching magic on video is simply not the real world.

I just made a positive post for Akira Fuji's Cigarette Penetration. It's difficult to make a video that gives the audience the live experience. Same issue here. If you ever see him do this in person you'd rip your pocket trying to get the money out of your pocket.
Message: Posted by: Jeff Taub (Dec 1, 2010 02:45PM)
Going by the video, it uses the same move I use with my Viking Brass Box. If it's the same principle, I've never had anyone want to look at the box.
Message: Posted by: pepka (Dec 1, 2010 11:36PM)
I received mine today and all I can say is Beautiful Work Bob! Can't wait to start using it.
Message: Posted by: Bob Kohler (Dec 7, 2010 08:01PM)
Thanks Pepka!
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (Dec 12, 2010 01:31AM)
How do you guys like the trailer?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gx2DxngXjWA
Message: Posted by: gaffed (Dec 14, 2010 11:07AM)
[quote]
On 2010-12-12 02:31, saysold1 wrote:
How do you guys like the trailer?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gx2DxngXjWA
[/quote]

That's the same trailer that has been up since early September! I thought perhaps you had found a different one.
Message: Posted by: gaffed (Dec 14, 2010 10:37PM)
Finally gave in and just ordered it. I like the idea that it can be shown empty from the start if one wishes to do so and its flexibility as for the use of coins, bills, billets, etc. Time to start making use of my Extractor again as it will go hand in hand greatly with this! I wish it could have been a [i]tad[/i] smaller, but I imagine there were some size restrictions due to its mechanism and versatility. When I get it I'll try to post here and give my impressions on it after giving it a few tests on some people. I'm counting this as my Christmas present to myself! ;) Hopefully on Christmas day I'll be using it on some family members for the first time before I go out and perform it for strangers.
Message: Posted by: martysh (Dec 15, 2010 09:00AM)
You'll love it ...and the "size won't matter" or bother you when you get to the moment when you let the spec lift the lid off...it makes it all the better.

Marty
Message: Posted by: roblane (Dec 15, 2010 04:47PM)
Lightning box + Extractor! ( Slaps forehead) Why didn't I think of that already? Thanks Gaffed!
Message: Posted by: rockthemike (Dec 16, 2010 03:55AM)
IMHO this price is outrageous, way overpriced for any magician. You can think that "it'll keep this for only the serious performers" but I beg those of you on the fence to realize that as well made as this is, you can achieve the same effect essentially with Mystery Box or Tin Opener for $100+ less.
I'm now preparing to get bombarded with hate; putting my flame suit on.
Message: Posted by: Ken Dumm (Dec 16, 2010 02:53PM)
[quote]
On 2010-12-16 04:55, rockthemike wrote:
IMHO this price is outrageous, way overpriced for any magician. You can think that "it'll keep this for only the serious performers" but I beg those of you on the fence to realize that as well made as this is, you can achieve the same effect essentially with Mystery Box or Tin Opener for $100+ less.
I'm now preparing to get bombarded with hate; putting my flame suit on.
[/quote]

No flame here Mike, but have you actually seen this prop in person? Or calculated the cost to produce this prop? Outrageous is a pretty strong word, so I'm asking for your reference point...

Ken
Message: Posted by: Mike McEathron (Dec 16, 2010 03:05PM)
Cost is something that makes me laugh, In most cases people whom complain about cost are those who cannot afford.
I don't own this prop but I do know that Bob kohler does not put his name on anything less then quality.
I am a big fan of Bob Kohler magic read the forms you see I like the products,however I would suggest that since you do not own the prop mike it would make it difficult for you to make a fair judgement if the product is over priced or not?
Message: Posted by: MagicbyCarlo (Dec 16, 2010 03:15PM)
[quote]
On 2010-12-16 04:55, rockthemike wrote:
IMHO this price is outrageous, way overpriced for any magician. You can think that "it'll keep this for only the serious performers" but I beg those of you on the fence to realize that as well made as this is, you can achieve the same effect essentially with Mystery Box or Tin Opener for $100+ less.
I'm now preparing to get bombarded with hate; putting my flame suit on.
[/quote]
Mike, your opinion is fair as it applies to you.
Value is a relative concept. Let's translate this to automobiles:
A fully loaded Ford Focus will run you just under $20,000
A BMW 335i starts at $41,000
Both serve the exact same purpose, transportation. Yet would you attempt to talk someone who could afford and wants a BMW 335i out of it because they could accomplish the same goal of transportation with the Ford Focus?
Not that you'd be wrong, but just because YOU don't get the value it doesn't mean that it isn't of value to others. Right?
Message: Posted by: rowland (Dec 16, 2010 03:32PM)
I can see why you would say that but in all walks of life ther are things that seem over priced, dvd's how much do they cost to produce, I am guessing a fraction of their selling price and not just macic dvd's. Packs of cards, sponge balls etc the list goes on just look around your home there will be many things that when you look at them seem over priced, but we are not the one's that have to come up with the idea, field test the prototypes, do the research for the manufacturing and bear the set up costs and run the risk of the product not selling. But we are the ones that reap the rewards of a top notch product that does exactly what it is claimed to do and does it extremely well.
It fools laymen and draws gasps of amazment which is what we are all after.
I have no connection with Bob Kohler but the products I have which are U3Fly, mind reading goose and the lightening box are all workers, first class workmanship,and first class instruction I couldn't ask for more.
Message: Posted by: rowland (Dec 16, 2010 03:36PM)
[quote]
On 2010-12-16 04:55, rockthemike wrote:
IMHO this price is outrageous, way overpriced for any magician. You can think that "it'll keep this for only the serious performers" but I beg those of you on the fence to realize that as well made as this is, you can achieve the same effect essentially with Mystery Box or Tin Opener for $100+ less.
I'm now preparing to get bombarded with hate; putting my flame suit on.
[/quote]
I can see why you would say that but in all walks of life ther are things that seem over priced, dvd's how much do they cost to produce, I am guessing a fraction of their selling price and not just macic dvd's. Packs of cards, sponge balls etc the list goes on just look around your home there will be many things that when you look at them seem over priced, but we are not the one's that have to come up with the idea, field test the prototypes, do the research for the manufacturing and bear the set up costs and run the risk of the product not selling. But we are the ones that reap the rewards of a top notch product that does exactly what it is claimed to do and does it extremely well.
It fools laymen and draws gasps of amazment which is what we are all after.
I have no connection with Bob Kohler but the products I have which are U3Fly, mind reading goose and the lightening box are all workers, first class workmanship,and first class instruction I couldn't ask for more.
Message: Posted by: rockthemike (Dec 16, 2010 05:42PM)
Good points everyone. It makes me rethink what I said. I understand the pricing for a lot of Kohler's products but this one I was a little unsure of. I actually posted this after seeing it demo'd at a shop so I have seen it in person. It was really late when I posted that and I kind of regret the way I said it because I should've known it'd start a commotion. If I could edit it I'd take out outrageously.
To each his own and whether I'm in the wrong or right here, I still respect everyone's choices to buy or not buy this.
And @Mike McEathron, don't make assumptions about others not being able to afford things. That's not classy.

That's all I'll say since I don't own this prop and may be speaking with my foot in my mouth.


Respectfully,
Message: Posted by: gaffed (Dec 16, 2010 05:52PM)
I own the Mystery Box and think it fantastic. However, the Mystery Box [i][b]cannot[/b][/i] do the same things as the Lightning Box. You need a [i]separate[/i] box for a billet, and another for the use of a dollar bill. If you would like to have the option of performing all three options we are talking about an investment of $255.00. Also, you [i][b]cannot[/b][/i] use a coin with the Mystery Box nor are any of these options REAL cards, billets or bills. Second point, you [i][b]cannot[/b][/i] show the Mystery Box to be empty BEFORE you place it in use if you wish to do so. From what I can see is that the Lightning Box is turned ABS plastic, and for all practical purposes, indestructible. Another point, albeit a small one, is that the top of the Lightning Box stays on whereas the Mystery Box lid does not. Don’t get me wrong as I think the Mystery Box is/was the most revolutionary devices for a card to box and will live on for a long time, but the Lightning Box is a onetime buy for its versatility, durability, reset, etc. To say that the price is outrageous, in my opinion, is a tad harsh to say the least. But, you’re certainly welcome to your opinion. As for making assumptions that your [i]criticism[/i], for lack of a better term, are based on your not being able to afford it is something I feel is totally unfounded and uncalled for. As I mentioned previously, you’re simply giving your opinion on what you feel that the Lightning Box is as compared to other effects which can accomplish the same end.......to a [i][b]certain[/b][/i] degree. ;)
Message: Posted by: davidpaul$ (Dec 16, 2010 09:27PM)
[quote]
On 2010-12-16 18:52, gaffed wrote:
Second point, you [i][b]cannot[/b][/i] show the Mystery Box to be empty BEFORE you place it in use if you wish to do so.
(end of edited quote)

Just wanted to mention that you certainly "can" show the Mystery Box empty before you put it into use.
Doug Brewer's "Get Bent" DVD shows a nice routine doing just that and one that I use all the time.

I don't own the Lightning Ring Box and with the reactions I'm getting from the Mystery Box as well as some simpler homemade methods I really don't see the need-(for now anyway)
Message: Posted by: gaffed (Dec 17, 2010 06:26PM)
[quote]
On 2010-12-16 22:27, davidpaul$ wrote:

Just wanted to mention that you certainly "can" show the Mystery Box empty before you put it into use.
Doug Brewer's "Get Bent" DVD shows a nice routine doing just that and one that I use all the time.

I don't own the Lightning Ring Box and with the reactions I'm getting from the Mystery Box as well as some simpler homemade methods I really don't see the need-(for now anyway)
[/quote]

Yes, I suppose you could show the Mystery Box empty first, and then with a bit of misdirection "set" it. However you certainly couldn't place it on a table, remove the lid to show it empty, and then [i]never[/i] touch it again. By the way, the Lightning Box is not a [b][i]ring[/i][/b] box and could not be used as such. Well, at least not with a borrowed ring.
Message: Posted by: Cosmo Solano (Dec 20, 2010 11:54AM)
Hey all,

Bob Kohler and I have been pals for many years and as you all know he's been generous with his compliments on my effect "Q". I was honored that Bob liked Q so much that he wanted to feature me and it on the DVD that comes with LB, and that it's the first and only item he sells that's not his own production.

Oddly enough, I haven't gotten my LB yet! I bowed out of the "front of the line" of this because Bob was so overwhelmed with orders and production I figured I could just wait...I should receive mine soon and I will be giving a review of my own and I promise a non-biased one...

I have to say that having played with the only working model in existence at the time, I was very excited to own one. And patience isn't my middle name, believe me!
I am posting here regarding a few posts I've read.

To some, the price of LB seems high, but I really believe it's because so much magic is so ridiculously "low" priced. I know what it takes to make this item, and especially one that works as well as it does, everyone of us would spend months trying to make one just right and probably fail in the end. Our time wouldn't be worth it.

I also have kept tabs on all the conversations Bob and I have had over the phone for the past several months and I know how much work he puts into it, making it right. If anyone out there would be willing to take your time, your experience and your creation (that's actually worth more than it all combined) and take it to market for much less than you'd be not only hurting yourself by losing money but the magic community would suffer too.

I know that I have a rather high priced item on the market as well, but I think most of us have NO idea the commitment and the work it takes to get something just right, the years of experience going into it, it's inception and creation.

I initially thought Q could sell for about $75 less than it does. With all the work we put into it I kinda wish I was selling it for even more than I do now. And the work is beyond just producing it, it's full time to answer emails, respond here (The Magic Café), get the word out, change design when problems arise and even just starting over when things aren't quite right. the dedication is immeasurable.

And to go into full blown production as Bob has is a whole other story. We make Q by hand because the initial cost of "factory" production is outrageous! The investment Bob's had to make to get out one little box would blow your mind!
I'm really not here to defend Bob or even my own higher priced item...
but to get on a campaign to "up" our own values for what we do. Compare it to what you (hopefully) charge for your professional time...

A person can go see the bazillion dollar production in a movie, and see the finest performers for 10 bucks or less. We charge (again, hopefully) hundreds or more for an hour of our time. As we should! but you charge so because you're time and efforts UP TO THE POINT has gone unrewarded and you've honed your craft. What you do sets you apart from an afternoon at Chucky Cheese or an evening at a movie.

We all need folks like Bob creating these things because we all use them to make money or to build our reputation etc. And to think something of this nature should cost much less is discounting our own vocation/profession. And c'mon! YOU are performing an effect from the mind of a long time respected pro, who's ideas and work has years and years behind it not to mention that rare genius we all hope to achieve.

Would you have come up with these products on your own?

As a full time performer for almost 3 decades I have to say, good magic sells for way to little! And not because I don't want hobbiests owning them, but because good magic props and ideas are priceless! I sure wish we could all start looking at this stuff from an "effect" point of view instead of prop verses cost.

I've seen the box compared to others and honestly it's not that Bob's box is too high, it is what it is for reasons... it's that the others are too low!
Seriously, the MB is pretty ingenious! I was out of magic for about 5 years and when I was only introduced to JK's box in the past year or so, (because of Q) and was honestly FLOORED at how LOW priced it was. Too low! My thought was why would someone sell their own genius for so little!

I think EVERYONE here can make up their mind if the EFFECT is worth their own money or not since a buck is easier to acquire for some than it is for others. Some of us charge more and some less, so the cost is relative to each. Whenever someone makes their review about the cost it's misleading since we all have different incomes etc, and you could be talking someone out of a gem based on your own personal budget. Many of you can afford a $200 prop more than I can! (my neighbor can afford a BMW I drive a Kia!)

What I really feel these forums are for is the effect, our reviews of the props and our sharing of the results we get. So that the rest of us can have some evidence of whether the item does what it claims and functions properly. Its also so valuable to hear the reactions and the work involved.

If I were talked out of buying any magic strictly for price, I'd be hurting myself. In fact I thought it ridiculous to pay over 1200 dollars for a highly recommended effect until I finally got it and performed with it.
It will serve me for years and at first performance was worth every penny and more. (Believe me it seriously taxed my budget too!)

It just seems that some of us have lost our own respect for the art and the value of what we do. I guess this is why its so easy to find age old secrets posted by little kids on youtube.

The cheaper the magic gets, the cheaper MAGIC gets. It kind of sad.

Sorry for carrying on, but when someone says magic is overpriced I just cringe, really? Over priced by who's budget? I feel like you should state your annual income and expenses before you say that! :) the cost of the item is the only thing that really has no place in these reviews, since I have no way of comparing what you can afford to what I can afford. I think it's great that everyone's comparing the different props to each other. THAT'S so valuable!
We all know what we can afford, help us out by posting the important stuff we really need to know to help make our decision.

Hope I haven't ruffled feathers... I'm not into that.
Sorry so long...
coz
Message: Posted by: Steven Conner (Dec 20, 2010 09:05PM)
Hey Coz, I couldn't agree more. It seems most want the effect but don't want to pay for it. So when a cheaper model comes in, what a deal. Golfers don't want to pay $3300 for a set of clubs when they can buy a knock-off for $600.00. It boils downs that this has become a way of life.
Message: Posted by: martysh (Dec 20, 2010 09:35PM)
No matter the price it sure earned it's keep for me last Friday night...a small church gathering at a small resataurant and I just showed this to a table of 4 ...and this senior type gentleman wanted to look at the box and I put it in his haand... and then I proceeded (you never do a trick ...twice) to do it a second time ...no build up just went right to it but this time I let him open it up no more than a few inches from his eyes.. and there was the signed card again in less than a second back in the box which he openned... he couldn't believe it ..I blew him away.. he gave me his card to show he was a city councilman of my town. I would have paid anything for that moment...
the box just paid for itself last Friday nigth.


Marty
Message: Posted by: Cosmo Solano (Dec 21, 2010 06:28PM)
Here here Steven! I don't even think it's about the cheaper model, I think it's most about how price is purely relative, like I said there's no BASE for it. What I find affordable is probably common only to my wife's opinion!
It would be nice just to keep to the important things, we'd do each other a favor!

When it comes to buying the knock offs, well your just asking for the creative ones out there to stop sharing. Ironically, those who buy the knock-offs are the ones who need the creators the most! (bite the hand that feeds you!)
Its getting worse and worse, I know of a top pro who has so much to offer us, and would like to, but won't release a thing, because of it. He'll probably go to his grave with his ideas. What a shame. If we could all just NOT support that market...

Marty what a great testimony for this, but more-so for the power we have at our fingertips and what performing magic really is about! It proves what most of the experienced pros know... the effect can and should FAR outweigh the method. With the right presentation and proper timing, you should be able to direct every ounce of their attention! With all the emphasis on the impossibility of it all, you left that guy with nothing to think of but... WOW! (Box? what box?)

This box is simply a prop, and the discrepancies, the look, the mechanics are really a matter of how YOU handle it. It sounds like Marty works with enough confidence that doing this twice really is no risk at all for him. If that doesn't say something about the reality of using this prop, nothing does.

Bravo Marty!

I'm watching the DVD right now... can't wait to play with the box in the real world.
Message: Posted by: Cosmo Solano (Dec 22, 2010 10:31AM)
Okay here goes...
I was afraid to review this being friends with Kohler and all, but I promised myself I would be as honest as possible.

I can see where some have felt a little uncomfortable with the handling and discrepancies, which I have to say are actually very minor once you actually try it.
Bob points out the professional viewpoint on this, which everyone should take seriously.
On the DVD he says that the "revelation" is not when the cards is unfolded and shown, but when the lid is removed and the card is in the box.
This is HUGE! And it provides all the inherent misdirection you could ask for when you set the box down.

After doing it several times yesterday, often for the same people, you'd have to actually TRY to get someone to notice anything sneaky.

The reward, (for that little discrepancy, which really only is a problem for an insecure performer) is that you can make a strong but subtle point of the box being empty before, and then casually show it empty after, which in fact removes all suspicion from the box. I can't emphasize enough that Marty's post about repeating it says SO MUCH!
Also, to be able to use ANY billet or card here is a big plus. I have another "box" effect which I have to be honest I do love to use, but one night some folks spilled drinks on my cards and I ended up using the wrong color cards, this great effect in the little wooden box was never seen by my audience because of the limitations. Interchangeable billets make this prop MUCH more versatile. (I saw a post somewhere about someone using it for Newsworthy!!! I'm honored! And how awesome is that!) Who knows what effects you may purchase in the future that can be used with this!

Regarding the price: As many of you know I create most of my own magic, I have played with so many different ideas for a similar prop, so many hours put in, I've spent 10 times the amount in time and effort, probably 100 times working on similar ideas. The LB cost is a fraction of what I've already spent in effort and time, and my time is valuable.

As far as the DVD goes Bob leaves out NOTHING! I was surprised at the amount of tips and info he provides. from history, to how to do the fold, to angles and timing, psychology etc. All concerns are answered and a less experienced magician should trust Bob's advice and can learn much by listening carefully.

All in all, I really like it! Actually more than I thought I would... As I said I was a little reluctant to even offer to post a review, I was afraid of what I thought might be problems. And Bob was so gracious to feature Q on the video that I felt a little pressure!
I promise you, these opinions of mine are as straight up as I can be.

I guess the only thing I can say about it that isn't high praise, is that I had heard it was a box that "looked" like something common (before seeing it).
Not too sure I can agree with that but it doesn't look so strange as to invite suspicion either!
It looks like a round plastic box! You can give it a purpose, saying whatever you want that it was used for, but when you see really good magic, these over complicated explanations muddy the waters. Keep it simple and all that will be remembered is the effect, which is what we all want. Seriously, who in the world would see a folded card appear and ignore it because they want to know what the box was originally used for or where it came from?

The MB doesn't look like a common object and that's NEVER caused an issue and I'm sure the lightning box will fare the same.

There are SOOOO MANY advantages that LB has to offer, the almost "invisible" minor discrepancy is worth the payoff. It's like trading in a penny for a crisp new hundred dollar bill.

Bravo Bob, Its awesome to have such a great accessory to use with Q, now I have a new favorite way of performing it!

Coz
Message: Posted by: MJ Marrs (Dec 22, 2010 06:40PM)
One of my best buddies is a physician. I was in his office recently and inquired about the cost of one of the pieces of medical equipment which he uses. The amount of money he spent on the apparatus was staggering. Of course I knew that it was money well spent, and I'm sure his patients are very happy that he invested in top-of-the-line "props." I wish more magicians would take the same perspective on our wonderful art.

Even though one doesn't need to go through ten plus years of higher learning at the university level to become a magician, there are working pros (magicians) who spend an equal amount of time and energy learning and honing their craft and working out the details of running a business which supports their family. Magic isn't providing the cure for cancer, but quality entertainment has its place in the grand scheme of things. Finally, while we all know that props (or even effects) don't make the magician, working pros can't afford cheap props. I applaud guys such as Kohler and Solano who put the time and energy to make sure that the products they create are top notch. Thanks guys!
Message: Posted by: gaffed (Dec 22, 2010 07:53PM)
[quote]
On 2010-12-22 19:40, MJ Marrs wrote:
One of my best buddies is a physician. I was in his office recently and inquired about the cost of one of the pieces of medical equipment which he uses. The amount of money he spent on the apparatus was staggering. Of course I knew that it was money well spent, and I'm sure his patients are very happy that he invested in top-of-the-line "props." I wish more magicians would take the same perspective on our wonderful art.

Even though one doesn't need to go through ten plus years of higher learning at the university level to become a magician, there are working pros (magicians) who spend an equal amount of time and energy learning and honing their craft and working out the details of running a business which supports their family. Magic isn't providing the cure for cancer, but quality entertainment has its place in the grand scheme of things. Finally, while we all know that props (or even effects) don't make the magician, working pros can't afford cheap props. I applaud guys such as Kohler and Solano who put the time and energy to make sure that the products they create are top notch. Thanks guys!
[/quote]

While I whole heartedly agree with your sentiments on the high cost of quality “props” for a magician, I’m afraid I’ll have to draw the line in your comparison to medical equipment! Comparing the high cost of medical equipment and placing them in the same pigeon hole of “props” as to what a magician uses is a tad overreaching don’t you think? Medical equipment is not “props” by [i]any[/i] stretch of the imagination! ;)
Message: Posted by: Douglas Lippert (Dec 23, 2010 01:15AM)
[quote]
On 2010-12-22 20:53, gaffed wrote:

Medical equipment is not “props” by [i]any[/i] stretch of the imagination! ;)
[/quote]

They are if they're being used on a movie set. hehe. :P
Message: Posted by: MJ Marrs (Dec 23, 2010 07:47AM)
[quote]
On 2010-12-22 20:53, gaffed wrote:
[quote]
On 2010-12-22 19:40, MJ Marrs wrote:
One of my best buddies is a physician. I was in his office recently and inquired about the cost of one of the pieces of medical equipment which he uses. The amount of money he spent on the apparatus was staggering. Of course I knew that it was money well spent, and I'm sure his patients are very happy that he invested in top-of-the-line "props." I wish more magicians would take the same perspective on our wonderful art.

Even though one doesn't need to go through ten plus years of higher learning at the university level to become a magician, there are working pros (magicians) who spend an equal amount of time and energy learning and honing their craft and working out the details of running a business which supports their family. Magic isn't providing the cure for cancer, but quality entertainment has its place in the grand scheme of things. Finally, while we all know that props (or even effects) don't make the magician, working pros can't afford cheap props. I applaud guys such as Kohler and Solano who put the time and energy to make sure that the products they create are top notch. Thanks guys!
[/quote]

While I whole heartedly agree with your sentiments on the high cost of quality “props” for a magician, I’m afraid I’ll have to draw the line in your comparison to medical equipment! Comparing the high cost of medical equipment and placing them in the same pigeon hole of “props” as to what a magician uses is a tad overreaching don’t you think? Medical equipment is not “props” by [i]any[/i] stretch of the imagination! ;)
[/quote]

Hey buddy, of course the comparison is overstretched! That's why "props" was offset in quotes. However, magicians, as a collective fraternity, should look our chosen field with the same mindset that professionals in other disciplines look at their life's work. Doctors, lawyers, engineers, and other professionals don't think twice about investing thousands of dollars on their education or materials which will help them peform well in their field, but magicians complain when they only get five tricks on a thirty dollar DVD! Taking a more serious attitude towards our magic props and all the other behind-the-scences things which go into a magical performance would probably go a long way towards elevating the way magicians are perceived by the mainstream public.

Respectfully,
MJ
Message: Posted by: edh (Dec 23, 2010 09:41PM)
No, MJ. Magicians complain when they get ONE trick on a $30 DVD.
Message: Posted by: Cosmo Solano (Dec 29, 2010 12:27PM)
I think the main point I was trying to make is that the cost of the effect is subject to each of our own personal situations... 'nuff said!

SO! Now that I am also a proud owner of the Lightning Box, lets get back to a discussion of the ideas and use for this thing!

I did it several times over the holidays and "In their hand" is very strong, and provides a ridiculous amount of misdirection for the "discrepancy move" as you pull away and set the box aside. Psychologically you're saying "this box isn't important, what's important is what just got dumped into your hand." And it all plays out perfectly.

No one has yet even mentioned the box which I set down sort of behind me or off to the side on the nearest table.

Awesome reactions!
Message: Posted by: Xcath1 (Dec 29, 2010 12:59PM)
Cosmo, what do you mean be "in their hand"?
Message: Posted by: Cosmo Solano (Dec 30, 2010 12:52AM)
Oops sorry I just read my post and realized I wasn't very clear...
Put the box in their hand instead of on a table etc. then when you dump the contents out into their (same) hand the box just gets set aside. Unfortunately the only video I've seen of this was a bootleg video I believe has been removed. I don't want to promote that so I won't say where I saw it!
Message: Posted by: Bob Kohler (Jan 1, 2011 10:00AM)
Happy New Year!
Message: Posted by: Bob Kohler (Jan 3, 2011 12:35PM)
I've recently had a couple of folks ask me about switching the objects inside of the box during a show. For instance starting with a signed card to box routine then later in the show using a billet or money.
It is totally possible but you have to work out the details of the way you work and your situation.

First you may want to consider using a different type of adhesive. Double stick tape is pretty strong. You may want to try using Blu-Tac or one of the soft putty type adhesives. I think they are a little easier to remove.

I personally use an old doctor's bag to hold my show. It's pretty easy to do the first routine, put the Lightning Box away and while I'm getting other props out I have quite a bit of time and reason to simply remove the card and put in the billet or money. It's very easy, just work out a simple choreography.

Used this way the Lightning Box can actually become a thread that runs through your show.

Another idea I've used is this. I made a solid Lightning Box. During the show I perform a watch steal and load it into the solid bottom. After the routine for the signed card I switch boxes and put the Lightning Box with the watch inside in plain sight. Much later I reveal the watch is gone and have the spectator retrieve the watch and open the box. Pretty strong stuff...
Message: Posted by: Cosmo Solano (Jan 4, 2011 01:22PM)
Okay so get to work making some solid boxes to switch out already that we can purchase! :)
Message: Posted by: Wizard of Oz (Jan 4, 2011 08:55PM)
Bad news for Bob, but good news for me... I just purchased a slightly used Lightning Box right here on The Café... but not from Bob. (Sorry Bob...no offense).
Great news for Bob, and great news for me... this thing is frickin' awesome.

I love the way it looks, as you can play it down as something utilitarian, or play it up as something mysterious and dark. A perfect design in my opinion.
I love the way it handles. Just the right size. Just the right weight.
But most of all, I love the advancements this prop makes possible to this now classic effect. Showing the box empty first...genius. Being able to toss another object into your hand along with the card, billet etc....genius.

Basically, this effect is great news for all of us.

Oh, on a side note, because I purchased this used, the special something in a tube from Japan was not included. Bob, I looked on your site and couldn't find how to buy a tube. Can I buy one from you? Or, can you send me info on where I can?
Message: Posted by: rowland (Jan 4, 2011 09:10PM)
I don't think you get a special something in a tube from Japan. I certainly didn't with mine.
Message: Posted by: Cosmo Solano (Jan 5, 2011 09:47AM)
Yes you do get a special something in a tube, (actually it's more in the form of a pen) I don't think it's a real secret or there'd be any reason not to name it here, but since you've been careful I won't name it either now! I'll PM you a link, not very hard to find, but I think you need to know the exact name of it.
Message: Posted by: Wizard of Oz (Jan 5, 2011 11:49AM)
Got your PM Cosmo. Thanks for the info!
Message: Posted by: Bob Kohler (Jan 14, 2011 04:20PM)
The Special stuff is completely covered on the DVD.
Message: Posted by: Tony Curtis (Jan 19, 2011 07:13PM)
[quote]
On 2010-10-15 00:54, tdowell wrote:
An earlier version of this was produced by Magic Wagon and was called the "Black Box Mystery". The method is identical, however the Lightning Box adds technical improvements to the gimmick and provides you with dvd instructions and preparation materials, which the Black Box did not. The Lightning Box is also slightly larger allowing for an extra item like the poker chip, and, it is less awkward to handle than the old Black Box (which is no longer available).
[/quote]
Tdowell, you are correct and I spent yesterday afternoon with Pattavoot Sangruchi from Magic Wagon Bangkok discussing Black Box Mystery and Lightning Box. Black Box Mystery was released in 2008 as can been seen by the following review.

http://www.martinsmagic.com/?nd=reviews&search_realsku=3834

Tony Curtis
Message: Posted by: Dr. Magic (Feb 6, 2011 12:09AM)
[quote]
On 2011-01-19 20:13, Tony Curtis wrote:
[quote]
On 2010-10-15 00:54, tdowell wrote:
An earlier version of this was produced by Magic Wagon and was called the "Black Box Mystery". The method is identical, however the Lightning Box adds technical improvements to the gimmick and provides you with dvd instructions and preparation materials, which the Black Box did not. The Lightning Box is also slightly larger allowing for an extra item like the poker chip, and, it is less awkward to handle than the old Black Box (which is no longer available).
[/quote]
Tdowell, you are correct and I spent yesterday afternoon with Pattavoot Sangruchi from Magic Wagon Bangkok discussing Black Box Mystery and Lightning Box. Black Box Mystery was released in 2008 as can been seen by the following review.

http://www.martinsmagic.com/?nd=reviews&search_realsku=3834

Tony Curtis
[/quote]

How come the creators are ignoring this post?
Message: Posted by: Amazing Magic Co (Jul 28, 2011 08:48PM)
What can I say ... I absolutely love the Lightning Box. I actually bought this expecting to use it with a completely different routine. After watching the DVD and burning through a few decks practicing the Mercury Fold, I am using this in ways I never anticipated. The construction and function is outstanding. I was uncertain at first as I thought its function was a bit sticky. After following Bob's directions in the DVD and adding the suggested lubricant (only once - never needed to repeat) it works perfectly ... every time. This has been great fun to perform.

Dan.
Message: Posted by: The Great Dave (Aug 21, 2011 06:07AM)
I have played a game for about 50 years that if my Magic Show could only have three effects in it what would they be? The Lightning Box is in - I doubt it will ever be replaced.

Best,
Dave
Message: Posted by: JD_UK (Dec 17, 2011 03:12PM)
My box is quite noisy when you make the shuttle pass.
Has anyone else experienced this? And are there any solutions?
Message: Posted by: andyvan3226 (Jan 10, 2012 02:20PM)
[quote]
On 2011-12-17 16:12, JD_UK wrote:
My box is quite noisy when you make the shuttle pass.
Has anyone else experienced this? And are there any solutions?
[/quote]

I just got my LB in the mail. All I can say is that I'm thankful there are guys like Bob making such quality (and cleverly thought out) props for us mortals to perform with. Wow! It's perfect.

Yeah, you could say there's a noise on mine - but only if you were feeling guilty about it and listening for it in the first place. There are some really clever (Jamy Ian Swiss levels of clever, no less) mitigating strategies that are mentioned in the DVD (use of dice, coins or other objects) that would eliminate that "issue" (but it's really not one) and serve to strengthen the experience on other levels as well. Also, I'd consider calling Bob and seeing if it might be an issue with your particular LB. I've heard he's committed to top notch service and customer satisfaction.

I couldn't be happier with the purchase. Top rate demo video (which is both rare and appreciated by any prospective buyer, thanks!), great DVD explaining every last detail and including a couple devious routines. And the prop - it's a first rate solution in a world where you normally have to settle for less. There's even some extra items that really make the routines easy to put together without going hunting for supplies.

The drawback (for me) is that with a prop this good now the onus is on me. There's no "technical" reason why my AC couldn't be as compelling as Tommy Wonder's was. You are free to think only about the performance of the piece as most of the heavy lifting is done by the LB. And yet, somehow I don't think I'll be able to charm and entertain anywhere near that level. And, darn it, I won't be able to blame it on the prop this time. Ouch...
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Jun 1, 2012 05:34PM)
[quote]
On 2010-10-15 08:51, Bob Kohler wrote:

I spent the last few evenings working a hospitality suite here in Las Vegas. I used the Lightning Box about 20 times.

The routine that just tore the audiences to pieces was the combination of using The Q-Quantum System index with the Lightning Box.

The handling that I put on the DVD is exactly the one I used. It's called Invisible Lightning.

[/quote]

Here it is, for all to see how magical and UNEXPLAINABLE this deadly combination is. Performed by Mr. Star Quality himself, Scott Alexander

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8R9WrbBGyk&feature=plcp
Message: Posted by: ArtIn (Jun 1, 2012 06:00PM)
This was really fun to watch!
Great timing and very magical.
I love my Quantum Connection.
Message: Posted by: Wizard of Oz (Jun 1, 2012 07:38PM)
That is killer stuff. Loved the watch bit. Nicely done.
Message: Posted by: MR Effecto (Jun 1, 2012 08:03PM)
Nice. Love it.
Message: Posted by: kevin carmean (Jun 1, 2012 09:11PM)
Very nice.
Message: Posted by: Bob Kohler (Jun 4, 2012 02:50PM)
Scott's version is typical Scott. Very direct and a great way to use the Lightning Box.
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Jun 4, 2012 03:39PM)
Scott Alexander could do the coloring book and make it entertaining. Give him a device like the Lightning Box and you have an incredible piece of theater.
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Oct 9, 2012 10:44AM)
Mr. Kohler reports he has 6 left in stock and these will not be made any longer:

https://www.bobkohlermagic.com/view-product.cfm?productid=68
Message: Posted by: Daren (May 9, 2014 09:24AM)
My lightning box sticks quite a bit, any tips, or do I need to obtain that lubricant, I am in the uk
Message: Posted by: Steven Conner (May 4, 2018 10:02AM)
With all the switchboxes on the market, ia anyone still using BK's LB.

Best

Steve
Message: Posted by: warren (May 4, 2018 01:07PM)
This is something I did look at however I prefer to use something that allows for any small object to be found inside it without the need to have to alter the box so whilst this is a great addition that no doubt people have a lot of success with it didn't quite convince me to part with my cash.

My personal favourites are Destination type boxes as they are held by a spectator long before the borrowed object appears inside, nest of wallets which also allows for many small objects to appear inside and finally my latest addition which I haven't received yet as I've only just ordered it The Vault by Leo Smetsers which again allows for multiple objects to be loaded.

The other great thing with all 3 that I mentioned is that the spectator can actually remove their item themselves ;)