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Topic: Balls !!!
Message: Posted by: Jacques (Oct 25, 2010 03:43PM)
After many years, I’m back to ball manipulation. My old billiard balls are now quite yellowish and my rubber balls are hard and slippery. So I just received my new Fakinis and I ordered Levent’s DVD, I took out Richard’s Kaufman’s “Balls: Lesson in side arm snookery” from the box and I started playing, rolling, switching and dropping the balls. But I’m wondering, is there any new sleights, routines, books or DVD that are different from the standard multiplying balls between fingers and that I should be aware of?
Thanks
Message: Posted by: Daveandrews (Oct 25, 2010 06:02PM)
Jacques, I put my manip back together after nearly 30 years - that was about 4 years ago. I bought all the dvd's (you will enjoy Levent's dvd), only to fnd that there was nothing new. Most of the new moves seem to be coming out of Asia, certainly where card manips are concerned. Take a look at An Ha Lim and others - though perhaps card manips are not your thing.
I went about relearning/reminding myself of the techniques (that took some time, I can tell you!), then put them into some sort of routine. I don't, as such, do a one to 4 (I do, but you wouldn't notice).

After all that, I am building to saying that it really is up to you how you link/routine the slieghts/moves into a routine that you want. Not very helpful, I'm afraid!

Richard Kaufman's book - I bought that too. I would love to have seen Mr Kaufman when he was doing these routines. Some of it is totally beyond me.

Above all, have fun, and good luck.

Best wishes,

Dave
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Oct 25, 2010 09:34PM)
Take a look at Shamada's manipulation DVD, is flash 4 is cool. Also see Alan Wakeling's soft bound book at the book store.

Granted these are different methods/handlings ending in a display of 4 balls in the fingers.

Geoffrey Buckinghams 13 ball productions will keep you busy as well.

Sounds like you want something different, but don't know what. As humans we only have 2 hands, 10 fingers, don't know what else could stimulate you, if Kauffman's book of very difficult moves is not doing it for you.
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Oct 25, 2010 11:22PM)
Kaufman's book has one of my favorite color changes. it's wonderful and involves 3 balls. Very sneaky and useful.

I've enjoyed all the DVDs on ball manipulation. Every magician should be able to do at least a wee bit of ball manipulation. It's a great skill to have for impromptu moments when there's a tangerine or egg or some other spheroidesque object at hand.

Adding and removing a loop ball from play can also be fun.
Message: Posted by: Jacques (Oct 25, 2010 11:49PM)
Thanks for the suggestions, I will look into them.
Oh I'm sure Kaufman and Levent will keep my fingers busy for a long time. I use to do a 5 balls routine using a sh*** and a 4 colored balls routine with no sh*** back in the eighties. Kaufman"s book was very inspiring, and I agree difficult, but I also dived into Buckley, MacMillan, Ganson, Gaultier, Buckingham, Garcia. So you are right, I'm looking for something different but I'm not sure what. I have some ideas so I'm searching. I was hoping that there would be something new, like a Ponta the Smith with balls...
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Oct 26, 2010 12:41AM)
I think you really have to look at your self to come up with something new.

A while back, someone posted that they wanted to know the Bret Daniels Flash 4 production, I knew he used Nesto Balls in the past, but this was his new routine. It took me some checking the Shamada videos, but it turns out it was Shamada's production. What Bret Daniels did was change the hand and arm positions. Making it look totally new and very different. Of course Daniels was on a huge stage so he could use his method, but Shimada shown it for his club work, partially surrounded. Same moves different handling.

So if you work on style and character, you may come up with something exciting to you. I think the Kauffman book was revolutionary at the time and still is, the stuff is so ground breaking, not many use his ideas. It takes work to adapt to these moves, not many are willing to put the work in, this is what will make you stand out from the rest if you choose to the task.

Try mixing and all those references you made above. Of course you will have to actually learn all the routines in order to see what would fit where. Have fun!
Message: Posted by: Jacques (Oct 26, 2010 01:11AM)
I totally agree. My goal isn't to copy somebody else routine, it would be unsatisfying. I think that the real fun in manipulation is to come up with your own routine. I didn't look at ball manipulations for many years so I'm looking around.
I find Kaufman's book still inspiring. It is strange to me that it is overlooked and virtually unknown to many. It should be republished.
Message: Posted by: crochow (Nov 20, 2010 04:10AM)
Jeff McBride has a excellent DVD on ball manip., I have and love it!
Message: Posted by: graywolf (Nov 26, 2010 06:59PM)
I had Richard Kaufman's book and spent a long time practicing the moves. When I finally saw him lecture on it, the balls he used were the size of gumballs. There are many better sources on billiard ball manipulation.
Cordially,
Howard Vanderbeck
Message: Posted by: Andrew Zuber (Nov 26, 2010 07:12PM)
I don't know if he's using a certain routine or if it's his own, but I saw Mark Kalin do one of the most beautiful ball manipulation sequences I've ever seen in my life at the castle a few years ago. Absolutely stunning. I'd be interested if anyone knows the background on his routine, but should you ever have the chance to see it, you'll appreciate the beauty of it.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Nov 26, 2010 07:43PM)
[quote]
On 2010-11-26 20:12, Andrewzuber wrote:
I don't know if he's using a certain routine or if it's his own, but I saw Mark Kalin do one of the most beautiful ball manipulation sequences I've ever seen in my life at the castle a few years ago. Absolutely stunning. I'd be interested if anyone knows the background on his routine, but should you ever have the chance to see it, you'll appreciate the beauty of it.
[/quote]

It has been said he uses the Alan Wakeling's routine. It is published in "The Magic of Alan Wakeling" book by Jim Steinmeyer, available at many bookstores in paperback for $19.95 for less online.

I forgot where the box idea he uses is published, maybe someone else can comment on the box loading feature. I believe it is published also.