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Topic: Contact Mind Reading Expanded vs Hellstromism
Message: Posted by: WV (Oct 26, 2010 03:18AM)
These two eManuscripts are available at TrickShop.com and they are essentially the same technique. Which one is the better one?
Message: Posted by: Dick Christian (Oct 26, 2010 07:00AM)
IMO asking "which is better," regardless of what it is in reference to is a meaningless exercise as one man's "better/best" is another's "worse/worst." Which is better/best for YOU depends on many factors that only YOU can understand. The only way your question will be answered will be when you buy them both and compare them to determine which best suits YOUR needs.
Message: Posted by: Steven Keyl (Oct 26, 2010 01:24PM)
As I haven't read either I can't make a recommendation between the two choices listed but will put in a recommendation for Banacheck's Pshychophysiological Thought Reading. It's not an eBook but is an excellent primer for this kind of work.
Message: Posted by: ROBERT BLAKE (Oct 26, 2010 05:12PM)
To make your choice harder (or not) I would say MASTER MENTALITY STANTON CARLISLE
Available at

http://www.lybrary.com/master-mentality-p-21123.html?osCsid=7265126bfa01719b360bd41a51287f70

nice ideas - builds on good ideas (ping pong ball)stanton carlise sees it more like a show and how to build it . searching for the best helpers - what to say to them so they cooparate better with you. 74 pages

the other 2 (around 40 pages) are basicaly the same from information point.
Message: Posted by: MentalistCreationLab (Oct 26, 2010 06:02PM)
Cumberlandism
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Oct 26, 2010 06:54PM)
[quote]
On 2010-10-26 18:12, ROBERT BLAKE wrote:
To make your choice harder (or not) I would say MASTER MENTALITY STANTON CARLISLE
Available at

http://www.lybrary.com/master-mentality-p-21123.html?osCsid=7265126bfa01719b360bd41a51287f70

nice ideas - builds on good ideas (ping pong ball)stanton carlise sees it more like a show and how to build it . searching for the best helpers - what to say to them so they cooparate better with you. 74 pages

the other 2 (around 40 pages) are basicaly the same from information point.
[/quote]

My favorite book on the topic, followed by the Satori book.
Mine is the Supreme hardcover edition.

Tony
Message: Posted by: Sallymagi (Oct 26, 2010 07:37PM)
So which one is best for the money then?
Message: Posted by: Mentalist Sam (Oct 26, 2010 09:28PM)
[quote]
On 2010-10-26 20:37, Sallymagi wrote:
So which one is best for the money then?
[/quote]

I think it's a ridiculous questions actually. The ebooks are only $8.95 each, buy both of them.

Become your own expert. For less than $100 you can have Banachek's DVD, his book

[url]http://magicinspirations.net/miva/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=MI&Product_Code=PTR[/url]

and those two ebooks. Aside from several years of experience doing it, that's all you need to get started. Less than $100 for something you will have forever. For an amazing technique. Sounds like a bargain. It's that worth it?
Message: Posted by: funsway (Oct 27, 2010 08:40AM)
Check with Bill Palmer for his translated book on Hanussen to provide some essential historic background
Message: Posted by: jdmagic357 (Oct 27, 2010 09:10AM)
Am I missing something? Isn't contact mindreading and hellstromism the same thing? The two can be used interchangeably along with muscle reading.

My pic for reading material would be; Contact Mind Reading Expanded ebook which in actuality is by Dariel Fitzkee. I would also highly recommend his trilogy which will do more to improve your magic than just about anything else written. jmho. Pm to find out where you can read most of the text online for free.
Message: Posted by: funsway (Oct 27, 2010 10:06AM)
For me who has done such things for 50 years the distinctions is:

Contact Mind Reading is any demonstration in which the Mentalist and Medium are in physical contact by any means: wrist holding, ends of a pencil, standing back to back and touching, etc.; as opposed to other forms of Medium involved effects in which there is no direct contact. Thus, reading a conferate's mind by placing your fingers on his temples is Contact Mind reading having nothing to do with Hellstromism.

Muscle reading is a technique rather than a demonstration and is one of the techniques used in Hellstomism (capitalized as it's a name)-- but this can also be used to actuate a pendulum second hand, the key being that ideomotor functions are in play rather than observing muscle changes directly as in Cold Reading.

Hellstromism is expanded use of Muscle reading, Contact Mind Reading and other techniques for mentalism demonstrations that can go beyond either. I have performed Hellsromism with no physical contact at all, but only after Contact Demonstrations. This is actaully a misnomer for the effects as Hellstrom was only the American presented of effects made popular in Europe by Hanussen and others.

I don't know how some of the modern books describe these terms.
Message: Posted by: WV (Oct 28, 2010 01:32AM)
I emailed the site owner and this is what he said:

"Both books have their role. Fitzkee's book (CMR) takes a more detailed approach and does a good job of explaining actual tests. While Hellstromism focuses more on the presentation side and showmanship, if you will, as practiced by perhaps its greatest exponent."

This is something I find really interesting and would love to learn more. The reason I go for eBooks is beause I save on shipping costs which is mostly more expensive than the actual product (I live in South Africa).
Message: Posted by: vratkins (Oct 29, 2010 06:11PM)
WV,
The Fitzkee book might be best to start with. I can't reccommend "Hellstromism". There seems to be a sub-class of muscle reading books that tout it as a stepping stone to true psychic power. Hellstomism has a lot of straight forward instruction, but suffers from hyperbole and slips into la la land twards the end. Fortunately, this is a subject where you really don't have to choose. There are only about seven books on the subject. You can, for a fairly modest outlay, read them all.

Amongst the other good recommendations above, I'd like to add "Practical contact mind reading" by Edward R Schaltz. It starts with a dead simple experiment that you can do as soon as you read it, and ends with an impressive feat of finding an object in the audience, without a transmitter.

There's a public domain book available on PDF "Practical Mind Reading" By William Walker Atkinson, easily googled. It's not bad, but it's written by an early "new ager", so it veers into "stepping stone to esp" territory at the end..

Finally - there's a lot of stuff on the subject on the Café. Google "contact mind reading" site:www.themagiccafe.com
You'll get some of my posts. I'm repeating myself.
Regards,
Victor
Message: Posted by: teejay (Nov 15, 2010 03:11AM)
I know some say hat you should just go for it and develop the skill. I would like to learn some 'no fail' effects to ease my way into it. Anybody any suggestions?
:)
Message: Posted by: DekEl (Nov 15, 2010 05:40AM)
Master Mentality has served me well. I would also recommend Banacheck's work on the subject. I found Hellstromism to be more enjoyable as a theoretical read than for technique.
Message: Posted by: Amirá (Nov 15, 2010 06:02AM)
I recommend: PRACTICE and TRY .


Specially in this technique, you need to just practice in front of persons that takes you as a competent performer.

This technique will not work if your participant isn't with you.


So , just practice . With a pseudo MR effect (for building your confidence) and after that with the real demonstration.



Books are great help, but remember how that guys started in this. Just try things.
Message: Posted by: Frank Douglas (Nov 15, 2010 06:45AM)
Amirá is right on by suggesting "Pseudo Muscle/Contact reading" to start learning from. This will allow you to get the "feel" of contact/muscle response while working to a know target.

A bonus to this method is that you have to perform theatrically replicating working to an UNknown target. You get 2 mental workouts at the same time.

Cheers
Frank
Message: Posted by: ROBERT BLAKE (Nov 15, 2010 07:40AM)
Last week I was in germany and attended a lecture of Mr.Satori. half of his lecture was the CMR. this was very entertaining and very well explained. Mr. Satori was very precise in the method and how to go from step to step. for me this was an eye opener. I bought his book MAKING CONTACT and I am working on it now. some excercises - some routines very well explained.

I hope to meet Mr. Satori this winter for a personal 1on 1 tutoring. for me the best book just €18,00 / 75 pages

recommended
Message: Posted by: WV (Nov 26, 2010 05:07AM)
I went with Contact Mind Reading Expanded. Busy with the eBook now. Will read though it twice and then study it. I'll let all of you know how it goes.
Message: Posted by: ROBERT BLAKE (Nov 26, 2010 06:51AM)
WV, just make contact and have fun.
Message: Posted by: Jon Hackett (Nov 26, 2010 07:10AM)
The SUPERB fitzkee book on the subject at lybrary.

Ill give ya's a link...

http://www.lybrary.com/contact-mind-reading-expanded-p-221.html

I am regretting this already.

Good day Gentlemen!

Jon Hackett
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Nov 26, 2010 06:19PM)
[quote]
On 2010-10-27 10:10, jdmagic357 wrote:
Pm to find out where you can read most of the text online for free.
[/quote]

legally?
Message: Posted by: WV (Nov 26, 2010 10:39PM)
[quote]
On 2010-11-26 07:51, ROBERT BLAKE wrote:
WV, just make contact and have fun.
[/quote]

Will do!
Message: Posted by: Waters (Nov 27, 2010 12:36PM)
[quote]
On 2010-11-15 04:11, teejay wrote:
I know some say hat you should just go for it and develop the skill. I would like to learn some 'no fail' effects to ease my way into it. Anybody any suggestions?
:)
[/quote]

Example: Force a card on a participant. Then all them to shuffle the cards and then ask them to remove it, along with four other cards and place them on the table face down in a row. Allow them to rearrange them if they like, but be sure they know which is the selection.

Next, try to determine by CMR/MR which is the correct card. Decide which you think is the one and then tap the back and say "this one". If that is correct turn it over and you have completed the experiment.

If they say no, then tell them to mix them again, and after doing so, turn them all face up. Say that this will help them concentrate. Obviously, finding the correct one (while keeping the spirit of the experiment intact), will be no problem.

Of course, "cards" could be replaced with pictures, symbols, alphabet cards, etc... you get the idea.

I hope that helps

Regards
Message: Posted by: David Alexander (Nov 27, 2010 03:27PM)
One of the necessities of Contact Mind Reading is the desire of the transmitter for you to succeed. Having them "will" you to "win" is important.

My suggestion is to spend the few dollars and buy "everything" on the market which is less than ten titles. That way you get a number of perspectives and points of view.

Once you understand the basics and how to convey to the transmitter what they must do the only thing left is to practice. Do a lot with friends and you'll surprise yourself with the results.
Message: Posted by: ROBERT BLAKE (Nov 27, 2010 05:01PM)
[quote]
On 2010-11-27 16:27, David Alexander wrote:
One of the necessities of Contact Mind Reading is the desire of the transmitter for you to succeed. Having them "will" you to "win" is important.
[/quote]

I am in the process of learning this art too. I learned from MR. SATORI (Germany) that never choose a spectator but always ask who wants to help. the ones who wants to help are also the most willing that you succeed. in a performance last week I made that mistake and I can see know why mr. Satori is right.

also know how to say and explain the spectator how to think.

this is a great art and I like this journey allready.