(Close Window)
Topic: Outlaw's Scorpion
Message: Posted by: Bob1Dog (Nov 18, 2010 11:34AM)
This may not be the correct forum, but since Scorpion is somewhat of a mental effect, I'm trying here. I recently purchased one from a Caf member and it's an awesome prop. However, the thing is really pretty dangerous if used incoorectly. Im just wondering, given the nature of the effect, those of you with Scorpion, in which venues to you perform this? I'd be afraid to let a spectator even handle it because of the powerful gimmick and what the spectator may be wearing. I'm sure tweens and teens would go for this, but it does have a bit of a violent nature. I'm mostly curious for your thoughts on this, pardon the pun. Thanks! Bob
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Nov 18, 2010 11:44AM)
It is the one thing they put out that I take with me (in reserve).

Can it be dangerous if used incorrectly, yes! So can a letter opener, can of tuna, or a Q-Tip. Use it correctly. It isn't a "slap" effect, but rather a "squeeze" effect, so even if you got it wrong, there would be no real injury.

As for their examining it, I have them wear the Oven Mitt of Protection when they touch it.

Tony
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mindbender (Nov 18, 2010 02:27PM)
Hmmm...what exactly are you doing with a Q-tip, Tony, that is making it so dangerous?
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Nov 18, 2010 02:32PM)
Do you really want to know? I know 27 ways to kill with a Q-Tip...
Message: Posted by: Scott M (Nov 18, 2010 02:34PM)
I hear Tony can slay people with a pendulum ALONE!

:)

-Scott M
Message: Posted by: Bob1Dog (Nov 18, 2010 04:15PM)
Thanks for the info Tony, your suggestion of the oven mitt is a good one...and for Mr. Mindbender, just for the record I had an ear specialist tell me once, "never put anyting in your ear larger smaller than your elbow..." q-tips have probably punctured more eardrums than anything else!
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Nov 18, 2010 04:24PM)
The mitt pretty much ensures the item will not come in contact with anything that can be damaged as well. It essentially ensures that it will be kept at arms length. ;)

Tony
Message: Posted by: Bob1Dog (Nov 18, 2010 05:51PM)
Tony, I may have misunderstood the oven mitt. You mention the Oven Mitt of Protection...is that a gimmicked mitt? Or just an ordinary oven mitt? If it's a gimmicked mitt, might you PM me with the details? Thanks! Bob
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Nov 18, 2010 05:55PM)
Standard oven mitt. It prevents them from contacting the points. When they see the dangerous looking thing, they will only want to touch it with the mitt on. Believe me!

I originally used a work glove, but mitt is easier for them to put on, and lightens things up a bit without removing the element of danger.

Tony
Message: Posted by: Chad C. (Nov 18, 2010 08:27PM)
I hold it and just let them lightly touch the tip with their fingertips and then ask them what would happen if they were to squeeze it...

After that it's on to the rest of the routine.
Message: Posted by: Bob1Dog (Nov 19, 2010 10:49AM)
Thanks folks, y'all have helped a lot.....gonna steal one of my wife's oven mitts pronto! Best, Bob
Message: Posted by: Stephen Young (Nov 19, 2010 12:18PM)
My wife's only got one oven mitt left after I stole the other for my linking barbed wire rings.


Steve
Message: Posted by: ~Cicero (Nov 19, 2010 03:15PM)
Sometimes I pop a balloon on it to prove that it is sharp.

How exactly would one not allow a spec to touch it and still do the routine?

The oven mitt is a good idea, but I just tell them to be very careful.

This is great to perform for men, especially young men. Women get a little freaked out...especially my wife!

I actually think this one looks more dangerous than it is...not that I want to miss, but better to miss on the scorp than a nail or knife!
Message: Posted by: Bob1Dog (Nov 19, 2010 08:32PM)
Cicero, I thought of the balloon too and I like that as well....but if you let the spec touch it, how do you know that he/she doesn't have something in close proximity that would compromise the gimmick or give it away? That's my biggest fear...impaling someone with it if they're wearing the wrong material! (if y'all get my gist....)
Message: Posted by: Roth (Nov 19, 2010 09:55PM)
[quote]
On 2010-11-19 21:32, Bob1Dog wrote:
Cicero, I thought of the balloon too and I like that as well....but if you let the spec touch it, how do you know that he/she doesn't have something in close proximity that would compromise the gimmick or give it away? That's my biggest fear...impaling someone with it if they're wearing the wrong material! (if y'all get my gist....)
[/quote]
Hi Guys. Thanks Tony for sharing the subtleties you use.

You cannot be impaled by the Scorpion :) The spikes are less than 1 inch long and have a "bed of nails" effect due to the close proximity of the tiny spikes.

I can actually toss it from hand to hand, I can squeeze my hand down on the ball to some extent.

I have several customers that have painted a thick piece of bolsa wood and then drop the scorpoin on it to show it sticks in the wood.

I have seen a wonderful presentation where the performer shreds newspaper with it to show the "danger" element.

I actually use wood tongs similar to the ones in the demo video and let the spec use the wood tongs too.

If you are that concerned my friend it might not be something that is right for you.

Thank you for inquiring :)

-Rick
Message: Posted by: Bob1Dog (Nov 20, 2010 11:33AM)
Rick, I am not that concerned; I'm completely enamored with the Scorpion, but before I use it, I want learn how others use it as well. I was attempting some lame comedy on my "impaled" statement.....You gave me two more great ideas; the thick piece of balsa wood is a wonderful presentation, as are the tongs. So once again, thanks all for your comments. Best, Bob
Message: Posted by: Julian Kestrel (Jan 10, 2011 07:42PM)
Question: can anyone provide photographic evidence of makibishi or caltreps that in any way resemble the use of this prop? I like the theme but in my research I have found nothing to support this being an accurately represented prop. Please post links as I would love to be convinced.

Julian
Message: Posted by: Stefmagic (Jan 10, 2011 08:07PM)
[quote]
On 2011-01-10 20:42, Julian Kestrel wrote:
Question: can anyone provide photographic evidence of makibishi or caltreps that in any way resemble the use of this prop? [/quote]

[img]http://hirasefamily.com/images/Makibishi1.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.buyingfrenzy.com.au/Resources/Pictures/a%20makibishi.png[/img]
[img]http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/9/94548/1502800-nicaraguan_caltrop_super.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.sakuramartialarts.com/v/vspfiles/photos/WEA-9899-A1-2T.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i47.tinypic.com/5n9fki.jpg[/img]
Message: Posted by: Roth (Jan 10, 2011 09:21PM)
Origami Makibishi 撒き菱

[img]http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/9750/imgp1431n.jpg[/img]
Message: Posted by: Vick (Jan 11, 2011 05:18PM)
I've used Scorpion off and on in my show for a few years now, more off than on the past year. I really like Outlaw and their effects


I place the scorpion in a spectators hand (center of the palm) AFTER I have them fully spread out their hand, I control the placement and during the stretch of the hand I can see if there is any reason I should NOT place the scorpion in their hand. Also I explain the properties are like a bed of nails, if the weight is distributed in the hand it is less likely to puncture them (basically taking control, adding more danger while telling them be careful and do it like I'm asking or they could be hurt without ever saying those words)


Also I am telling the story of the makibishi and building the danger into it prior to the placement so there is a good respect for the scorpion and it's understood this is a (potentially) dangerous weapon
Message: Posted by: RCP (Jan 11, 2011 05:41PM)
[quote]
On 2010-11-19 22:55, Roth wrote:
[quote]
On 2010-11-19 21:32, Bob1Dog wrote:
Cicero, I thought of the balloon too and I like that as well....but if you let the spec touch it, how do you know that he/she doesn't have something in close proximity that would compromise the gimmick or give it away? That's my biggest fear...impaling someone with it if they're wearing the wrong material! (if y'all get my gist....)
[/quote]
Hi Guys. Thanks Tony for sharing the subtleties you use.

You cannot be impaled by the Scorpion :) The spikes are less than 1 inch long and have a "bed of nails" effect due to the close proximity of the tiny spikes.

I can actually toss it from hand to hand, I can squeeze my hand down on the ball to some extent.

I have several customers that have painted a thick piece of bolsa wood and then drop the scorpoin on it to show it sticks in the wood.

I have seen a wonderful presentation where the performer shreds newspaper with it to show the "danger" element.

I actually use wood tongs similar to the ones in the demo video and let the spec use the wood tongs too.

If you are that concerned my friend it might not be something that is right for you.

Thank you for inquiring :)

-Rick
[/quote]

I would be afraid to allow it to be touched for fear that there might still be amanita phalloides on the tips. ;)
Message: Posted by: Jim-Callahan (Jan 11, 2011 05:47PM)
[quote]
On 2011-01-10 22:21, Roth wrote:
Origami Makibishi TH

[img]http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/9750/imgp1431n.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

Those are compound models ?

Jim
Message: Posted by: Roth (Jan 11, 2011 06:13PM)
[quote]
On 2011-01-11 18:47, Jim-Callahan wrote:
[quote]
On 2011-01-10 22:21, Roth wrote:
Origami Makibishi TH

[img]http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/9750/imgp1431n.jpg[/img]

Those are compound models ?
[/quote]
Yes they are. My wife teaches origami (she's Japanese, not that that matters) although she did not do these.
Message: Posted by: Bob1Dog (Jan 11, 2011 11:28PM)
Rick, I just thought I'd add on that I built a brick of balsa wood and painted it black as you suggested. Very nice method to illustrate the potential dangers of the Makibishi. Great tip.
Message: Posted by: Julian Kestrel (Jan 12, 2011 07:08PM)
As the photos above show the scorpion is not reflective of the design of known caltreps or makabishi. It looks more like the ball from a mace and chain than a caltrep or Makabishi.
Message: Posted by: Julian Kestrel (Jan 14, 2011 05:50PM)
It would be interesting to actually make one that looks like the real thing.
Message: Posted by: Roth (Jan 14, 2011 06:25PM)
[quote]
On 2011-01-14 18:50, Julian Kestrel wrote:
It would be interesting to actually make one that looks like the real thing.
[/quote]
We took some creative license with the design so the prop would work the way we wanted it to. Guys that have it apparently have never been questioned about the "look" and its been out 3 years.

We have no plans to change it, but if you think you can achieve the same effect with a different design I'd be happy to try to make one for you.

What you can't see by the pictures is it's not a ball shape, it is flared out at the bottom and stands, it will not roll.

Thanks!
Message: Posted by: Brynmore13 (Feb 8, 2013 03:52PM)
[quote]
On 2011-01-10 20:42, Julian Kestrel wrote:
Question: can anyone provide photographic evidence of makibishi or caltreps that in any way resemble the use of this prop? I like the theme but in my research I have found nothing to support this being an accurately represented prop. Please post links as I would love to be convinced.

Julian
[/quote]

Better late than never:

http://s612.beta.photobucket.com/user/GenshinKiDojo/media/tetsubishipainted2-1.jpg.html

One a side note, I run a facebook page called thwe Brisbane Historical Research Society, which has members from various Ninjutsu schools. I posted a picture of the Scorpion on this page last year and I have had no one challenge the authenticity of the Scorpion, as it does ressemble some of the naturally occuring spike covered seed pods that have been used a Caltrops in various parts of the world in history.

Brynmore
Message: Posted by: Presarian (Feb 10, 2013 05:39PM)
But the current outlaw's design make it look more sinister with spikes all over em don't you agree? Or it just llooks like a sea urchin haha
Message: Posted by: Brynmore13 (Feb 12, 2013 01:52AM)
I love the current design, it looks like a very efficient poison delivery system.
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (Oct 4, 2013 10:03AM)
I just ordered this - just curious please how to utilize this in a Russian Roulette style routine? Mount the Scorpion on a wood base with other bases of similar weight?

Yes/no? Any advice would be appreciated. Gracias!
Message: Posted by: Tom Jorgenson (Oct 4, 2013 10:57AM)
Cork Coasters work fine.
Message: Posted by: Godzilla (Oct 4, 2013 02:01PM)
I have not done this,maybe you could do it on a turn table!(Lazy Susan)
Where she stops,nobody knows!(except you,you hope!) :)
Perhaps,over the top!
Message: Posted by: Keruptis (Jan 30, 2015 05:50AM)
I recently got this effect, it is fantastic.

I recommend using Corinda's muscle reading to perform. Downside is that once in a while you miss and nail the scorpion with your palm.

Good thing is that with the scorpion, although this leaves small scars on your palm, it does not penetrate the muscle like the knife smash and stabs, therefore, you can still do the coin roll.

Also, when you show the scars on your palm to your specs, they get a little freaked out, because they know you are nuts, and might miss again.

Builds great tension.
Message: Posted by: Gismologic (Jan 30, 2015 08:44AM)
I disclose that I am deathly allergic to Peanuts...
So, I roll the bugger in concentrated peanut (actually vegetable) oil w/rubber gloves.
I then give a spec. my loaded Adrenalin pen Antidote while eplaining Pulp-Fiction style instructions

Provides nice tension..,.
Message: Posted by: Marc O (Jan 30, 2015 09:00AM)
[quote]On Jan 30, 2015, Gismologic wrote:
I disclose that I am deathly allergic to Peanuts...
So, I roll the bugger in concentrated peanut (actually vegetable) oil w/rubber gloves.
I then give a spec. my loaded Adrenalin pen Antidote while eplaining Pulp-Fiction style instructions

Provides nice tension..,. [/quote]

That is some great thinking!
Thanks for sharing such a original idea!
Message: Posted by: Gismologic (Feb 5, 2015 10:03PM)
At ECSS Rich Nakata and Mike Henry actually did a classic Carnie signal routine ..without ring and using tall cups...
No muscle reading...just folk that know each other well enough.
Old magic often has the power to impress the most...
Message: Posted by: Gismologic (Feb 5, 2015 10:29PM)
Children especially adore this effect and the Japanese Warlord/ninja back story.
A beautiful prop with ample routines to start with, this effect also KILLS with old folk !
I have worked this in Alzheimer's Units and the reactions are always wondrous and happy !
Risk is both simple and primal
One for the ages..
Cheers to the folk at Outlaw