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Topic: Induction with Playing Cards?
Message: Posted by: Brett (Dec 8, 2010 12:49PM)
Does anyone know of an induction technique using playing cards? Maybe even gaffed cards? I know Kenton uses a printed business card for a trance effect, but that's as close as I've seen.
Message: Posted by: Wravyn (Dec 8, 2010 12:56PM)
Wouldn't seeing the '21 card trick' for the umteenmillionth time put them in trance?
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Dec 8, 2010 01:01PM)
Why?
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Dec 8, 2010 03:49PM)
[quote]
On 2010-12-08 13:56, Wravyn wrote:
Wouldn't seeing the '21 card trick' for the umteenmillionth time put them in trance?
[/quote]

I know it certainly puts me to sleep.
Message: Posted by: Anthony Jacquin (Dec 8, 2010 04:44PM)
I have done a few inductions with cards.

You can use a card stick to card drop as an induction.

You can do Elman expectancy induction (Triple Handshake) by dealing cards.

You can do a Heavy Card and when it touches down that is your induction cue.

Do you have something specific in mind Brett?

Anthony
Message: Posted by: bobser (Dec 8, 2010 05:35PM)
Ask if there were a card that could possibly put them into a trance which card would that be?
"seven of diamonds" (say) they answer.
Thay shovel a pack of cards then cut it then set it down...
You remind them what they said a few moments ago and ask them to confirm what they said.
You then invite them to turn the top card over which of course is the seven of diamonds.
They go into trance immediately.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Dec 8, 2010 06:30PM)
A Card stick works because it creates catalepsy in the hand. Its really easy to create arm catalepsy just by touch and then move it to other parts of the body.

I have never done it but I'm pretty sure you could create an induction by counting cards.

I have worked out a way to make someone go into trance instantly when they see a card chosen by someone else even when nobody else knows about it. You tell them to be the magician. They take the deck start dealing the cards face up. When they the spectaros cards appears they go into trance.

Or when a spectator raises their hand behind the hypnotee's back...and re-awakens when they lower it at their discretion. In fact you could do create some really convincing effects of hypno-esp...

I haven't tested this yet but pretty sure it would work.
Message: Posted by: dmkraig (Dec 9, 2010 02:28AM)
Bobser's post makes a great point.

IMO there are only a few basic CONCEPTS for inductions. Once you understand those basic concepts you should be able to literally create inductions on the spot.

I can say that Bobser's description of a hypnotic induction is absolutely valid—in the hands of someone who understands the concept. A good hypnosis training should explain how to do this. If a person has no experience with hypnosis, Bobser's description is unlikely to be successful for you.

A variation on what Bobser proposes would be to allow the card to be anywhere in the deck, and as the person deals them face up, remind him that he should not GO INTO HYPNOSIS until he sees the card and then instantly GO INTO A DEEP HYPNOTIC TRANCE when he sees the card. Alternatively, with each card tell the person to become more and more relaxed so that when the card comes up they will be in a deep state of hypnosis.

Years ago I saw a show where a magician, about to do a levitation of his assistant, said, "I will now cause my assistant to go into a deep sleep via the quickest method known to mankind." He then fanned a deck and said, "Pick a card. Any card." The audience roared in laughter as her head instantly nodded and they proceeded with the lift. In the next row I heard a person say, "I'm never going to do that type of a card trick again!"
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Dec 9, 2010 09:58AM)
I will say it again. IF THEY think it will put them into trance, they are already IN TRANCE! You just have to point it out is all.

IF they think because it is a Tuesday in October and your name begins with a Q and if at 4 O'clock you say the word LILLY they will drop into a deep trance, then they will if you do. It is that simple.

In other words whatever they think will put them into trance WILL PUT THEM INTO TRANCE. The trick usually is to teach them what will put them into trance. Thus the opening lecture of most hypnosis shows.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Dec 9, 2010 11:14AM)
All good in theory.
Message: Posted by: Brett (Dec 9, 2010 11:26AM)
Thanks all for the help.

Several years ago I was playing with a Svengali Deck. In my routine I'd ask the spectator, "Have you ever been hypnotized before?" Usually they'd say "No," and I'd reply that I was going to hypnotize them for a minute. Then, of course, I'd make all the cards in the deck look like the one card that had been cropping up all along. It is totally amazing the number of people who would "trance" right then and there until I released them. Amazing.

So I had just been wondering if there were other inductions, per se, that used cards.

Bobser: Thanks for great idea. Anthony: Thanks for the list. :)

Again, thanks all,
Brett
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Dec 9, 2010 12:43PM)
If that fails just hit them with the deck
Message: Posted by: tiriri (Dec 9, 2010 01:08PM)
I believe most inductions are the same, regardless of the object you use to focus on. For example, I have done a couple of times what I called the pinched balloon induction, where I pick up a balloon to do the needle through balloon magic trick. But, then I say that when the balloon explodes the volunteers will fall in a deep trance, and it works amazingly well. So, I think you can do it with cards just by giving the right commands at the right time, and it will work for sure.
Message: Posted by: dmkraig (Dec 9, 2010 05:58PM)
[quote]
On 2010-12-09 10:58, Dannydoyle wrote:
I will say it again. IF THEY think it will put them into trance, they are already IN TRANCE! You just have to point it out is all.

IF they think because it is a Tuesday in October and your name begins with a Q and if at 4 O'clock you say the word LILLY they will drop into a deep trance, then they will if you do. It is that simple.

In other words whatever they think will put them into trance WILL PUT THEM INTO TRANCE. The trick usually is to teach them what will put them into trance. Thus the opening lecture of most hypnosis shows.
[/quote]

I believe it was Ellison who pointed out that the hypnotist has to believe it, too. If you don't believe your induction will work, chances are it won't.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Dec 9, 2010 06:32PM)
Whats missing from this thread is the pre induction lead up. I am assuming that there is a specific context to this. Which is why the question "why?"
Message: Posted by: Brett (Dec 9, 2010 08:58PM)
[quote]
Whats missing from this thread is the pre induction lead up. I am assuming that there is a specific context to this. Which is why the question "why?"
[/quote]

You mean like, "because it's entertaining?" Not trying to be a smart-a$$, but the lead up is "we're doing a card trick or two, and now I'm going to hypnotize you because it's fun." That's the only context I can think of.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Dec 10, 2010 09:49AM)
Yea, I think that is the fatal flaw mindpunisher is trying to lead you to.
Message: Posted by: Brett (Dec 10, 2010 10:24AM)
[quote]
On 2010-12-10 10:49, Dannydoyle wrote:
Yea, I think that is the fatal flaw mindpunisher is trying to lead you to.
[/quote]

That's a flaw? Why does a stage hypnotist or a street hypnotist do their thing? That's the context right?

Totally curious and bewildered,
Brett
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Dec 10, 2010 10:34AM)
Going from a card trick into suddenly "here let me hypnotise you" is a fatal flaw.

[quote]
On 2010-12-09 18:58, dmkraig wrote:
[quote]
On 2010-12-09 10:58, Dannydoyle wrote:
I will say it again. IF THEY think it will put them into trance, they are already IN TRANCE! You just have to point it out is all.

IF they think because it is a Tuesday in October and your name begins with a Q and if at 4 O'clock you say the word LILLY they will drop into a deep trance, then they will if you do. It is that simple.

In other words whatever they think will put them into trance WILL PUT THEM INTO TRANCE. The trick usually is to teach them what will put them into trance. Thus the opening lecture of most hypnosis shows.
[/quote]
I believe it was Ellison who pointed out that the hypnotist has to believe it, too. If you don't believe your induction will work, chances are it won't.
[/quote]
Ummm not to bash Ellison, but why would one do an induction that they did not believe would work in the first place? I mean you know it will work so you do it, I don't understand the point you are making at all. (Or I guess the point HE was making.)

"Yea this may or may not work, so yea lets just see if we can't give it a whirl?"

Seriously I can't imagine a situation in which I would attempt an induction I did not know would work.
Message: Posted by: dmkraig (Dec 10, 2010 11:22AM)
Danny, I know that YOU wouldn't do an induction you didn't think would work, but many new hypnotists who are unsure of themselves might try an induction while thinking, "This will never work. The only induction that works is the type where you spend half an hour relaxing them and then lead them to a happy place, ya know?"
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Dec 10, 2010 12:51PM)
[quote]
On 2010-12-10 11:24, Brett wrote:
[quote]
On 2010-12-10 10:49, Dannydoyle wrote:
Yea, I think that is the fatal flaw mindpunisher is trying to lead you to.
[/quote]
That's a flaw? Why does a stage hypnotist or a street hypnotist do their thing? That's the context right?

Totally curious and bewildered,
Brett
[/quote]
because no induction will work without a pre-induction lead in. Either planned or in by accident. Its as important or not more so wht you do before the induction.

Posted: Dec 10, 2010 1:52pm
I think really what is being said about believing is the same thing that a sales person needs to believe in his product in order to sell it.

Although I don't think that's necessarily true. At the beginning I just did xy and z and was amazed it actually worked.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Dec 10, 2010 03:10PM)
True your belief is not relevant. I always say you can not believe in gravity all you like and you don't float away.

I do think confidence is necessary yes. But again doing something you don't think will work is just plain goofy.
Message: Posted by: Joe Fortune (Dec 10, 2010 06:31PM)
You have to believe in gravity.
It's the law!!!
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Dec 11, 2010 10:56AM)
No that is sort of my point. It IS the law yes, but even if you do not believe it does not change things in one way or the other. It is what it is. Belief is not relevant.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Dec 11, 2010 11:22AM)
I don't believe in cretins who accost people in bars trying to hypnotise them.....but they are still around.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Dec 11, 2010 08:36PM)
A fine point put on a fine point.