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Topic: Has any woman contributed anything groundbreaking to magic?
Message: Posted by: panlives (Dec 13, 2010 07:51AM)
Hi All,

In his dynamic and constantly growing eBook, "Ask Roberto," Roberto Giobbi made this statement in the latest installment:

"I’ve yet to find a woman who has contributed anything groundbreaking to magic, but would be interested to learn if anybody of you knows more."

How might you respond?
Message: Posted by: Spellbinder (Dec 13, 2010 11:02AM)
She's only nine years old, but already Wiz Kid Wilhelmina has come up with three original subtle moves for standard tricks and three completely new and original tricks. Check out her accomplishments in Her Bio under "Goodenough, Wilhelmina" here ( http://magicnook.com/forum/bioFG.htm ). So far she's the youngest.

Going back into the past, we have Anna Eva Fay's "Spirit Handkerchief," Frances Ireland Marshall's many kid show originations, Elizabeth Warlock's rope effects and Anti-Gravity Glasses. I am sure there are others. But of course, it depends on how you define "Ground-breaking magic" to someone like Roberto Giobbi.
Message: Posted by: Rebecca_Harris (Dec 15, 2010 05:04AM)
I think the name Anna Eva Fay is enough by itself. Where would mentalism be if it wasn't for her and the other Victorian mediums who came up with most of the classic ideas that we all use now?

I think that Roberto's statement is hugely narrow minded. Given that magic is massively male dominated, is it really a great suprise that there is only a small percentage of women contributing to it?
Message: Posted by: seadog93 (Dec 16, 2010 10:36AM)
[quote]
On 2010-12-15 06:04, Rebecca_Harris wrote:
I think the name Anna Eva Fay is enough by itself. Where would mentalism be if it wasn't for her and the other Victorian mediums who came up with most of the classic ideas that we all use now?

[/quote]
Yes totally!
Not to mention, how many magician's 'assistants' never got credit I wonder?

[quote]
On 2010-12-15 06:04, Rebecca_Harris wrote:
Given that magic is massively male dominated, ...
[/quote]
I think (hope) this is changing. I'm always happy at the number of girls who come to my magic classes; and if I do any magic at the library I work at it's more often the girls who are interested enough to check out a book.

Over the summer I had a group come to see a library show because they thought I was a woman magician (that's what happenswhen your name is Courtney!); they gave me my favorite compliment of the year:
"We didn't even notice you weren't a girl!" :)
I recommended Heather Rogers and Caddwynn to them after the show, I hope they were able to see them.

Posted: Dec 16, 2010 12:42pm
Also what about Charlotte Pendragon. I don't think there is any question (although I could be wrong) that the Pendragons revolutionized metamorphosis, and Charlotte Pendragon was at least half of that revolution.
Message: Posted by: Stucky (Dec 26, 2010 06:16PM)
[quote]
On 2010-12-15 06:04, Rebecca_Harris wrote:
I think that Roberto's statement is hugely narrow minded. Given that magic is massively male dominated, is it really a great surprise that there is only a small percentage of women contributing to it?
[/quote]
I agree. There are many who have had/have an influence, but not given proper credit. Luna Shimada has created many things (behind the scenes as well) and she is still alive and breathing, so far as I know. Adelaide Hermann ring a bell anyone? Tina Lennert? The list goes on of course.

Have any of these women created some obscure card slight? This is probably Giobbi's only concern sadly.
Message: Posted by: Father Photius (Dec 26, 2010 09:05PM)
I'm still trying to figure out where Celeste put all those doves.
Message: Posted by: SpellbinderEntertainment (Dec 27, 2010 12:46PM)
OMG, research Adelaide Herrmann and you'll find one heck of an innovator.
Also Talma Queen of Coins, and Dot Robinson.
The early ladies were masters of illusion...

Walt
Message: Posted by: ELDEMONIO (Dec 29, 2010 08:58PM)
It's obvious that the large number of male performers will undoubtebly fog a little great female performers, specialy to laymen I think. I believe Giobbi's statement isn't meant in any negative way although some might take it as a negative challenging statement. I believe he is trying to show that he hasn't found women who have reached the hihg ranks other male performers have, such as, Jean Eugène Robert-Houdin, Houdini, Dai Vernon, etc. These men dramatically changed the face of magic, and I belive Mr. Giobbi is trying to find a woman that is comperable to these legends. Could the names of the women mentioned above be in the same ranks?
I'm familiar with magic history and it's performers, but not an authority in any way for me to say such a statement. I believe there are great women performers and thinkers now and in our past, and perhaps they havn't gotten the respect and prestige they deserve.
Message: Posted by: SpellbinderEntertainment (Dec 30, 2010 07:04PM)
Yes, many women were/are in the same ranks as the great performers, inventors, and innovators.

And it is too true that they have not received the same prestige and respect as their male counterparts.

Just attend a local IBM or SAM meeting to see the general attitude towards women today,
and you'll have an idea of the magnified feelings of lady-magi of other times.

Walt
Message: Posted by: Payne (Dec 30, 2010 10:31PM)
Let us not forget Lulu Hearst, The Famous Georgia Magnet.
Message: Posted by: ELDEMONIO (Dec 31, 2010 02:38AM)
This is a very interesting topic. Does anyone know good books or documentaries of women in magic? I went to the screening of the documentary Women In Boxes at the magic castle and what an informative movie. If you haven't seen the film you can watch it here http://www.snagfilms.com/films/title/women_in_boxes/
I believe the director of the film said they would make a sequel named "women outside boxes" or something to those lines, and it would be about great female performers in magic.
Message: Posted by: TheGreatNancini (Jan 11, 2011 01:14AM)
All of my magician friends seem to think that Ursula Martinez broke new ground with a TT. I am not familiar with her work. Can anyone tell me about her. Did she put out an instructional DVD?
Message: Posted by: gsidhe (Jan 12, 2011 09:13AM)
She does her act as a strip tease, doing the same trick (A TT scarf production) over and over in various states of undress until finally nude and producing a scarf from her...urm...most private parts.
I would consider her a novelty act, not a groundbreaker. The act is amusing at best.
I am guessing most of your magician friends are male.
Message: Posted by: Cyberqat (Jan 12, 2011 10:21AM)
Lets not forget Lulu Hurst, the "Georgia Magnet"

Really, that original statement struck me as just incredibly ignorant and maybe a bit sexist.

Edit; whoops, someone else beat me to almost exactly the same post!

Edit 2: "Could the names of the women mentioned above be in the same ranks? "

Absolutely! Ms. Hurst was at least as well known in her day and created a whole new kind of act. (One could argue that it was inspired/informed by sideshow strongman acts, but then Houdini wasn't the first to get out of a rope, either ;) )
Message: Posted by: TheGreatNancini (Jan 12, 2011 01:38PM)
[quote]
On 2011-01-12 10:13, gsidhe wrote:
She does her act as a strip tease, doing the same trick (A TT scarf production) over and over in various states of undress until finally nude and producing a scarf from her...urm...most private parts.
I would consider her a novelty act, not a groundbreaker. The act is amusing at best.
I am guessing most of your magician friends are male.
[/quote]
Wow....Just wow! Thank you for that "interesting piece of info". Yes, most of my magician friends are male, in fact by nature of loving the art of magic and being a magician myself, all of my non magician friends are male as well. Most of the women I know do not get my love for magic or for my love of entertaining.
Message: Posted by: ablanathanalba (Jan 15, 2011 10:35PM)
[quote]
On 2010-12-13 08:51, panlives wrote:
In his dynamic and constantly growing eBook, "Ask Roberto," Roberto Giobbi made this statement in the latest installment:

"I’ve yet to find a woman who has contributed anything groundbreaking to magic, but would be interested to learn if anybody of you knows more."
[/quote]
What a strangely backward thing for him to say. Disappointing.
Message: Posted by: scottsheltonmagic (Feb 21, 2011 08:20PM)
Gay Blackstone!
Message: Posted by: hugmagic (Feb 23, 2011 06:52AM)
Gay Blackstone has produced more hours of television than anyone in one year Male or female. Yes, she is still thought of by many as simply the widow of Harry Blackstone. She is much much more.

Dothy Dietrich has broken much ground in the field of escapes. Adelinne Herman was a major star in her own right.

I think some people need to read their history more and look beyond just a few years span.

Richard
Message: Posted by: Pakar Ilusi (Feb 24, 2011 05:47AM)
[quote]
On 2010-12-13 08:51, panlives wrote:
Hi All,

In his dynamic and constantly growing eBook, "Ask Roberto," Roberto Giobbi made this statement in the latest instalment:

"I�ve yet to find a woman who has contributed anything groundbreaking to magic, but would be interested to learn if anybody of you knows more."

How might you respond?
[/quote]

This is a classic example of the "foot in mouth" syndrome imho...
Message: Posted by: R.E. Byrnes (Feb 25, 2011 03:29AM)
Quite an impressive list of groundbreaking contributions that has been complied in this thread.
Message: Posted by: Autumn Morning Star (Mar 23, 2011 03:36PM)
There have been many contributions, but magicians must realize who is recording and writing the history of magic. Even at the biggest magic conventions there are many entrenched 'old boy' attitudes in place. At these conventions, the women hired to do 'magic' are usually lovely hoop twirlers, acrobats, unique dancers, etc., in tiny outfits. Few, if any, of the performers are working magic professionals. This is certainly not due to a lack of working women magicians!

Change must come from within, from the ranks of male magicians who speak on our behalf. There are just too few female voices. We need our brothers to speak up and make requests that a door be opened and kept open. We have so much to contribute! While conventions don't define women as magicians, the lack of a female presence speaks to the stubborn resistance against our inclusion.
Message: Posted by: Stucky (Mar 25, 2011 06:19PM)
[quote]
On 2011-03-23 16:36, Autumn Morning Star wrote:
There have been many contributions, but magicians must realize who is recording and writing the history of magic. Even at the biggest magic conventions there are many entrenched 'old boy' attitudes in place. At these conventions, the women hired to do 'magic' are usually lovely hoop twirlers, acrobats, unique dancers, etc., in tiny outfits. Few, if any, of the performers are working magic professionals. This is certainly not due to a lack of working women magicians!

Change must come from within, from the ranks of male magicians who speak on our behalf. There are just too few female voices. We need our brothers to speak up and make requests that a door be opened and kept open. We have so much to contribute! While conventions don't define women as magicians, the lack of a female presence speaks to the stubborn resistance against our inclusion.
[/quote]
I don't think conventions cater to anyone but hobbyists really. Sure you have the professional ones but then it's the good ol' boy thing you spoke of before. They hire their friends and people they want to see it seems. They seem to aim for the over 40 male. The youth and female demographic tends to be ignored. (One exception is WMS' teen stuff)

Another problem I have seen is many of the female magicians are trying so very hard to prove themselves they blend into the the rank and file of the men. magic is a weird place sometimes.
Message: Posted by: Lynetta (Mar 29, 2011 06:46PM)
I think that quite often, women are not good at tooting their own horns, so their achievements and contributions in magic often go unnoticed and they don't receive the credit they deserve. Women also often work behind the scenes in magic and their contributions are then credited to the person who is headlining the act. That being said, I am going to toot my own horn. First of all, an ad for my company, Fabric Manipulation, is at the top of this page. I built the first Twister Illusion and most of the Fabric Manipulation products are my own creations, or what I feel are improved versions of existing effects. I also hand make practically ever product in my line. And it's not just me, there are other women who are also currently contributing new creations to the world of magic... Randi Rain is continually putting out original products and Rachel Wild Columbini has created many original effects. As far as contributing outside of the product realm, Joanie Spina is contributing by directing and improving magic acts all the time. In the past, how can Marian Chavez be overlooked for her massive contributions to dove magic. I don't have time to list all of the performing female magicians I know, but if you look around, you will see many women contributing in wonderful ways to the performance side of magic.

The women that I have mentioned are just a few that I thought of off the top of my head. I'm sure if I sat and thought about it, along with the women that have already been mentioned, the list would be quite long. So, I guess the answer to your original question is YES, many women have contributed and are currently contributing in great ways to the art of magic.
Message: Posted by: Cyberqat (Mar 29, 2011 07:50PM)
A wonderful short-list, thank you!

People, particularly younger ones today, forget that it hs only been in the last generation or two that women didn't have to hide behind men to have their creations appreciated. The great science fiction writers "Andre Norton" and "James Tiptree Junior" were actually women hiding behind mens names to get their books accepted in the general market.

The fact that women needed to hide behind men, real or made up, in the past has unfortunately hidden their contributions as women to society in general.
Message: Posted by: Spellbinder (Mar 29, 2011 11:42PM)
Wiz Kid Wilhelmina continues to grow and amaze me with her magic thinking. I am getting ready to release her "Easter Egg Jelly Bean" Surprise trick to close off The Wizards' Journal #20 on my site. Most recently she has decided she wants to write a book of "Magic For Girls" so she can get some of her friends to think about joining the Wiz Kids and playing around with magic. While her cousin Qua-Fiki was coming up with creative ideas for his Sponge Fish, she has been doing the same thing but with a set of colorful rubber jacks. She showed me some of the moves she has been entertaining her friends with on the school playground at recess and I agreed to take a chance that she has a whole bunch of ideas to fill her "Magic For Girls" book. The "Magic Jacks" will be the first chapter in the book which has a holding spot on my site.

She went with the Wiz Kids to the Jersey Magic Jam this past Sunday and charmed Tony Karpinski so much that he gave her two free magic wands AND her own personal Die Box trick (the other fancy walnut with inlayed decorations box she has to share with other Wiz Kids). You can see the photos of the kids at the Jam Here: http://www.wizkidzinc.com/WK2011/JerseyJamPhotos/JerseyMagicJam.htm
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Apr 10, 2011 09:09PM)
The Delphian Oracle - One of the Founders of the Q&A and related mentalism acts.

The Witch of Endor - big enough to make the Big Book of Judeo-Christianity (if you take the Big Book to have a historical bent versus allegory)

... not sure if Morgana La Fey truly existed... I'll go see...
Message: Posted by: Spellbinder (Apr 18, 2011 02:11AM)
Follow-up on my previous post: "Magic Jacks" is turning out to be an entire new field of magic (like sponge balls was a new field back in my youth). I am overwhelmed by the cans of worms (or snakes) that Wilhelmina has unleashed in this one e-Book. There are new sleights, unthinkable with anything but Jacks, a new vanishing principle that applies to any small object covered with an ordinary silk (she calls it "Yankee Hanky"), and it's turning into a textbook on the subject of "Magic with Jacks." I haven't yet even gotten into what she has done with magic for superballs included with the Jacks these days.

In the meantime, I decided it was easier to finish up and release her "Teddy Bear Houdini" effect, once again filled with wonderful new stuff plus another new principle she calls her "Back Loading Cape." Trust me, if you do kid shows, you will be using this one principle from "Hairy Houdini", if not the entire routine. Back to work. I can't wait to see what she comes up with next.
Message: Posted by: dennfox (Apr 18, 2011 11:34AM)
Kitchen Magician?
Message: Posted by: wanda&viktor (Apr 26, 2011 04:28PM)
Wanda my partner, she improved mind reading system. This is a non visible work but verry important and difficult.
Message: Posted by: charliewerner (Nov 8, 2011 12:14AM)
Cold reading is created by a woman, I think.

Woman are famous for forecasting future...

Woman are famous as a witch doctor .... (Most being burned because they are thought to be real but infact they just a great magician.

Woman are famous for talking to the dead...(Psychic)

Why is there no record for woman in magic? Because most woman are not taught to write. And most woman don't share their secret with men.
Message: Posted by: Lynetta (Nov 21, 2011 10:02PM)
[quote] Because most woman are not taught to write. [/quote]
Really??? I would respond to this, but I was never taught to write.
Message: Posted by: Devious (Nov 21, 2011 10:32PM)
Now, I know better Lynetta. I met you way back in 2002, at the S.A.M. Convention in The Rio.
You are quite the writer and the silky smooth articulator as well.

Please don't hold that barbarian's comment, against the rest of the men, who know better
than to say something so foolish and ignorant.
Dev/
Message: Posted by: Lynetta (Nov 22, 2011 01:08AM)
Don't worry Dev, I know that most men don't think like that and if they do, they would never be idiotic enough to say it. Truthfully, I found his comment quite comical, although shocking and a bit scary. What's really sad is that I think he meant it.
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Pendragon (Nov 26, 2011 07:47AM)
At the Magic History Conference Margret Steele gave a wonderful talk on how she recovered Adelaide Herrmann's memoirs. West and I bought a copy of the book, a must for anyone who cares about the history of magic. Her contributions shaped the art of magic as we know it.

I have always credited Charlotte for her very significant work as my partner in "The Pendragons" and remember how important Lynette was in developing illusions and performing with Ed. Her fabric work is the without peer. A personal favorite is her Egg Bag. Your the best Lynette!
Message: Posted by: KOTAH (Dec 5, 2011 08:25AM)
Suzy wandas was admired by male and females for her considerable skills , manipulations and sleights.

Char pendragon's grace and beauty combined with her physical strength and control aded incredible drama to their routines.
Her improved handling of the metamorphosis cloth provided the truly instant , nearly visible exchange at the finale'

that on its own merits is a huge contribution to our art.
K.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Dec 8, 2011 12:00PM)
I never seen a female magician I did not like. Sadly, most all of them performed standard magic, and when I had an opportunity to speak with them, they know very little about magic props.

The one woman that stands out in my mind is [b]Juliana Chen[/b], she was the 1st person and woman to shoot cards in her style and included multiple cards at one time. She also produced a DVD that, for the 1st time explained and showed the proper fingers to use in the production. So this simple technique went from struggling to mastered in a very short time.

I think her contribution is revolutionary to the art.
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Dec 21, 2011 06:36PM)
If there had been as many female magicians over the years as male magicians, there'd be as many female innovators in magic as there have been male innovators.

The real question is why there aren't more female magicians. I assume it's because females in general are not as attracted to magic as males in general...but I have no idea why that is. I'm sure it's been discussed to death before.
Message: Posted by: Scott Fridinger (Dec 25, 2011 08:52PM)
[quote]
On 2011-11-21 23:02, Lynetta wrote:
[quote] Because most woman are not taught to write. [/quote]
Really??? I would respond to this, but I was never taught to write.
[/quote]

Looking at the English skills of the poster I would say that this probably isn't a too far off comment, for him. Remember, there are some cultures out there where woman are not allowed to be educated, and I would say that is reflected in the post.
Message: Posted by: The Mighty Fool (Feb 27, 2012 10:58AM)
In the field of kid's magic: I think the 'Popsy-topsy' wand was invented by Trixie Bond.


I'd tell my version of how & why a woman invented the rising wand.....but I don't want to get the piranha-treatment from all the people with hyper-sensetive psyches.

As for the 'barbarian's' post of "Woman are not taught to write", I think he was talking about female magicians in ancient / classical times ( the Delphic oracle etc.) and back then the vast majority of people in general were illiterate.

Finally, regarding why there arent more female magicicans---the sexual barriers set up by Western civilization have only fallen about 65 years ago. When the barriers are up, you only see the occasioanal oddity of a female mage. Now they number in the hundereds, but I think it will still be about 1/2 a generation before they start appearing at an equal rate as males.
Message: Posted by: Jim Sparx (Mar 5, 2012 08:13PM)
Has any woman contributed anything groundbreaking to magic?

Yes, they have to put up with husbands and boy friends that think tricks are more interesting than they are.
(Speaking as a former psychologist, marriage and family counselor)
Message: Posted by: btedeski (Mar 8, 2012 02:52PM)
>> Has any woman contributed anything groundbreaking to magic?

Houdini's Mother contributed him,,,,,
Message: Posted by: Dougini (Mar 9, 2012 12:41PM)
It was Nani Darnell, not Mark Wilson that got me to watch his magic show Magical Land of Allakazam! That is groundbreaking! :)

Doug
Message: Posted by: Dougini (Apr 10, 2012 03:28PM)
In all seriousness...

Lynetta has introduced the magic fraternity to her creations, this being just one of them:

http://www.fabricmanipulation.com/magictricks/index.html

Her change bags, egg bags, Glorpy The Gerkulating Ghost hanks, all have the care in manufacture we so miss today! She really got my attention with the Crown Royal Change Bag! Imagine taking a bottle out and doing standard stuff with this!

I'd say Lynetta and Randi Rain are STELLAR examples of BRILLIANT women in this field! For a great example of Lynetta's work, click the above link. Randi has a cutting edge Rocky Raccoon box you should look at, too:

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=403422&forum=8&36

This cracked me up! Expensive? Yes! "600 big ones", as Randi so eloquently put it! ;) Worth it? Ask anyone who bought one! There are quite a few more wonderful women in the Art Of Magic. Ya just gotta look... :)

Doug
Message: Posted by: Maritess (Apr 13, 2012 07:21PM)
I don't have the patience to read through all the women bashing posts, but I recently attended a Tamariz lecture in Vegas, last March, and he did a routine that was a variation on a routine that was invented by a woman. Unfortunately I forgot her name, but it was a very impressive routine.

Also, if someone says something dude-oriented just to get your dander up, like the ol' "Why aren't there more women in magic?" or something bone-headed like, "Have any women contributed anything to magic?" only because want to hear themselves give you their own genius answer, ignore them. They're just excited to talk to an actual live woman.
Message: Posted by: Dougini (Apr 17, 2012 05:39PM)
...women bashing posts...

Yeah, it's hard to believe we're in the 21st century! I feel kinda foolish for posting here now. Maritess is right: "Have any women contributed anything to magic?" seems to be borderline women-bashing. It may have not been MEANT that way, but I see your point Maritess.

I don't blame the gals for thinking we're bone-heads! I'm guilty of it more times than not. Of course the next request would be forgiveness. :)

Doug
Message: Posted by: seadog93 (May 25, 2012 12:16PM)
[quote]
On 2012-04-13 20:21, Maritess wrote:
They're just excited to talk to an actual live woman.
[/quote]

LOL! :)
Message: Posted by: Godzilla (Jun 5, 2012 09:08AM)
[quote]
On 2012-04-13 20:21, Maritess wrote:

They're just excited to talk to an actual live woman.
[/quote]



I like to read the 'Men Bashing' post,from the Women! :)
~G
Message: Posted by: MysticJohn (Jun 22, 2012 10:55PM)
The are plenty, the mothers of Dai Vernon, Slydini, Houdini, Henning, Copperfield to name a few, lol
Message: Posted by: panlives (Jul 5, 2012 07:31AM)
Dear Maritess,

Thank you for your reply.

As the OP I feel compelled to clarify a few issues, lest this thread devolve into insinuations of misogyny or testosterone-driven male posturing.

The original question was posited by Roberto Giobbi (“Has any woman contributed anything groundbreaking to magic?”).

Dougini’s post of April 17, 2012, omitted a word (“groundbreaking”). This omission profoundly changes the meaning of Giobbi’s question.

This is akin to the difference between the often misquoted line by Ralph Waldo Emerson (“Consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.”). What Emerson wrote was, “A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.”

One word more or less really does matter.

I am not an historian of Magic and do not know the answer to Giobbi’s original question, hence my post. I do think it is perfectly legitimate to ask the question. We needn’t start a gender fracas.

In a different context, author Gerald N. Callahan, in his book, “Faith, Madness and Spontaneous Human Combustion: What Immunology Can Teach Us About Self-Perception,” has a deeply absorbing section on why there have been so few female self-portraiture visual artists. His thesis is stunning and revelatory.

Sometimes, provocation can lead to legitimate scientific/historical advancement.

I do not see Giobbi’s question as an attack against Female Magicians.

It is merely a question.

If there are legitimate rebuttals, this seems to be the forum to place them on record.
Message: Posted by: Dougini (Jul 10, 2012 09:57AM)
You're right, Pan. My bad! The key word here is "groundbreaking". Quoting the OP:

[quote]
In his dynamic and constantly growing eBook, "Ask Roberto," Roberto Giobbi made this statement in the latest installment:

"I’ve yet to find a woman who has contributed anything groundbreaking to magic, but would be interested to learn if anybody of you knows more."
[/quote]

[b][i]Groundbreaking[/b][/i] is too vague a term. Women have given so much to magic, I don't know where to begin. Do we have a female David Copperfield? A female Blackstone? Melinda was big for a while but where is she now?

Galina from the Ukraine was phenomenal but sadly, regional. Randi Rain is all the rage in Austin Texas, but nobody's ever heard of her in Maine!

Being a full time magic performer is something that seems to be still male dominated. Society does that. Some day our civilization will climb out of this narrow-mindedness, and embrace the female as our EQUAL!

Doug
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mystoffelees (Jul 12, 2012 04:17PM)
"Being a full time magic performer is something that seems to be still male dominated. Society does that. Some day our civilization will climb out of this narrow-mindedness, and embrace the female as our EQUAL! "

Doug

Well, OK, but I won't go along with "superior"... unless I am told to...
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Aug 6, 2012 12:05PM)
The late Marian Chavez, wife to the late Ben Chavez, owned the Chavez School of Magic in Los Angeles, California. They both trained hundreds of magician in the art of magic and manipulations. I think that is a significant contribution to magic.

I don't think women look at magic the same way a man does. Therefore, they have totally different reasons for entering the field of magic.

I do know magic welcomes women into magic with open arms, and does everything possible to make them feel accepted. In the end, they all seem to disappear for some reason.

I am only guessing, but it may be that women do not keep magic as a side interest, if they are not successful at it, they move on to something else.

Where or what is Jade and Juliana Chen doing today, I have not heard or read anything about them in several years.
Message: Posted by: Stucky (Aug 7, 2012 01:11AM)
You don't read much about them because they are working.
Message: Posted by: lozey (Sep 17, 2012 06:37PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-05 21:13, spartacus wrote:
Has any woman contributed anything groundbreaking to magic?

Yes, they have to put up with husbands and boy friends that think tricks are more interesting than they are.
(Speaking as a former psychologist, marriage and family counselor)
[/quote]

AMEN to that. My last partner (a magician) lost interest in me, when I diversified my interests away from magic
Message: Posted by: Melies (Jan 31, 2013 09:51PM)
Hi everyone,

I'm new to magic (I've only studied it for a year now), but am absolutely passionate about it. However, it's so disheartening to see how frankly sexist the magic world is. Giobbi's apparent skepticism that any woman had ever contributed anything to magic is no different from what men have been saying about women for centuries, about women and, let's see...poetry, drama, literature as such, social science, natural science, philosophy, tennis, chess...you name it. Even comedy, a similar performing art: the late Christopher Hitchens said that only men can be funny (he apparently had never heard of Lucille Ball, Madeline Kahn, Tina Fey, Gilda Radnor, and a hundred other brilliant comedic actors). Larry Summers lost his job as president of Harvard in part for floating the "suggestion" that perhaps women are underrepresented in the sciences because of their genes. And so on. But it's just plain old chauvinism. I was shocked to pick up the latest GENII and see an incredibly sexist ad for a card trick about a one-night stand, featuring "beautiful" women and one "ugly" one (guess which card you don't want to get stuck with in the morning?). Last month, Penguin Magic put out a free DVD download for its customers, introducing magic to young people. The magician on the program, well known to many on this list, made several demeaning remarks about women during the program, including one in which he said "we men use our hands to work, you females use them for dainty things" or some such rubbish. I was not only angry about it, I was disappointed, because I have been trying to mentor two young magicians and both happen to be young girls--and I certainly am not about to expose them to even more bashing of girls/women than they already experience in our society.

Why are there so few women in magic? Part of it is the misogynistic culture. Magicians have created a public image of magic that corresponds to the prevailing gender stereotypy. Namely, men are the agents, the doers, the ones who Make Things Happen in the World, while women are their Helpers, their Assistants in Life, and of course their sexy eye candy. Personally, I think if I see another act where a "beautiful young woman" is cut in two with a giant knife or saw or whatever, I'm going to lose my lunch. Enough already. If you look at class and classic acts like Vernon or Slydini or Tommy Wonder, they didn't have to pander to that sort of thing.

But there are undoubtedly deeper social reasons too for the relative dearth of women in this art. For millennia, we men were socialized to be engaged in the "public sphere" of the world, while the women were consigned to the private sphere. As someone said in one of the posts here (Lynetta?), women don't usually toot their own horns. They aren't raised to, and society certainly doesn't reward them for doing so (the assertive woman in the office is a "!@#$%," the assertive man is admired as a "leader" or "Alpha Male"). Society, which is male-dominated, instead rewards them for being the Helpers. Women are supposed to be seen, not heard, and so on. So I think that from a very young age, boys are given the message that magic is about public performance and controlling the perceptions of others, which have traditionally been pursuits relegated to the men, while girls are told that magic is meant to be performed by boys and men.

I personally think it would be really exciting to see what magic would look like if there were more girls and women involved--it would really change the culture. (It's interesting to consider that women have been involved in real magic arts, through witchcraft and folk magic, for generations in many cultures around the world.) I don't know whether either of the two young magicians I've been coaching will want to pursue it when they grow up. But for now, they are as fired up about, and are as talented at, magic as any boy could be at their age. It's up to those of us who love magic to keep pushing for gender equality and social justice in our art, because the exclusion of women and girls only diminishes it. Time to really open up this vestigial Old Boy's Club!
Message: Posted by: Countage (Feb 3, 2013 02:58PM)
I have enjoyed every female magician I have seen. I have also enjoyed every magic act with women in it. We need more of them and that is ground breaking enough for me.
Message: Posted by: KOTAH (Mar 24, 2013 12:57PM)
A bit of research will reveal a wealth of women who have contributed much to this art of ours. suzt Wandas was one of the most skilled manipulators of coins and such magic has ever known

I do not have time today to stop and list the legion of those who qualify.

I join Walt and others in a big OMG, that you were unaware.

KOtah
Message: Posted by: PepeRuizSJ (Mar 30, 2013 04:31PM)
I'm surprised Ekaterina's name has not been mentioned. Ekaterina Dobrokhotova is doing something new that has never done before, and in that sense Groudbreaking. She has started what I think is a whole new category of magic, that is, magic with cosmetics. These are effects that men cannot perform, and that are natural for female magicians to use; this novel. Most female magicians can do all the tricks men do well, but she started a whole new category of tricks that only women can do, and this opens the possibilities to a whole new set of props for women to use. In a way she moved the "discourse" in that direction, so that other women keep thinking about transforming the use of cosmetics as magic props. She is still developing new ideas, and making them grow, but I love this freshness.

She is also incredibly accomplished as a card manipulator, this is how I think she has gained a lot of respect from men, and everyone in the magic community. What I love most, though, is that she is creating a whole set of effects that fit the female persona in a new way. She is a Model, and I think she studied marketing. In a way I think she is the perfect storm for a female magician in our times because she knows how to promote herself well, and a woman magician needs these skills in this male dominated territory (like it was said above). I also like that when she performs she doesn't take the performing persona of the "seductress" picking a man and being flirty. She performs feminine magic, but outside of what I see as a stereotype that ultimately belittles the female role a little bit.

Here's something on her card manipulation skills You better respect her:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTVo3iA9my0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=FeUqvneZPp8&feature=endscreen

Here's some of the "Cosmetic Magic":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gB9XvPX0Iiw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kN8P2kTTuyI

Here's some of her original releases:
http://www.papercranemagic.com/MagicTricks.php?Trick=Agape
http://www.theory11.com/tricks/pure-cardistry-ekaterina.php

Here's her bio:
http://www.ekaterinamagic.com/en/biography

I know she is a member of the Café, but not a very active one. Maybe she'll read this, and have something to say. I hope I'm not misrepresenting her. I am excited to see what she is doing, and I hope we see more coming. If you see this, Ekaterina, could you post more videos of you performing magic with Cosmetics?
Message: Posted by: harbour (Apr 14, 2013 02:27AM)
Suzanne's cups and balls.
Message: Posted by: alextsui (Apr 19, 2013 03:07PM)
There's also Angela Funovits who is a great performer and card manipulator. Her site is:
http://www.angelafunovits.com/

In recent years, I have also seen a lot of great lady magicians emerge from Asian countries like China, Japan and Taiwan. You can see a lot of their videos on Youtube.
Message: Posted by: Michael_MacDonald (Apr 19, 2013 04:58PM)
Her performing for a bunch of magicians, she is really nervous but pulls it off.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6rujzpXclE
Message: Posted by: Jesse K (Apr 21, 2013 11:40AM)
The Queen Of Cigarettes: Zirka
Thoughts?
Message: Posted by: alextsui (Apr 25, 2013 03:44AM)
[quote]
On 2013-04-19 17:58, Michael_MacDonald wrote:
Her performing for a bunch of magicians, she is really nervous but pulls it off.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6rujzpXclE
[/quote]

I don't think she's nervous at all. It's part of her presentation that she seems to be struggling to get the cards right. That's more impressive than just rattling off "Your cards are 4H, 8D, KC, etc." without any effort at all.
Message: Posted by: Brad Jeffers (Nov 1, 2013 12:39AM)
[quote]
On 2010-12-30 23:31, Payne wrote:
Let us not forget Lulu Hearst, The Famous Georgia Magnet.
[/quote]

Annie Abbott was The [b]Little[/b] Georgia Magnet. Lulu [b]Hurst[/b] was The Georgia Wonder. No one was The Famous Georgia Magnet.

Many women have made great contributions to the art of magic. As far as "groundbreaking" contributions go, I feel sure that over 99% of male magicians have none of those on their resume.
Message: Posted by: Danny Kazam (Dec 1, 2013 02:45AM)
Wow, lots of names but no creditionals being listed. Not saying there isn't any but could we list what contributions they contributed instead of just names. For example; the girl who was first to pull a hanky from her !@#$%^. There has to more than that as contributions to the magic community? In other words, lets list not just names, but what exactly they have contributed that was unique and useful to the growth of magic.
Message: Posted by: Dougini (Dec 1, 2013 03:22PM)
Ruth Rice! She's kept Silk King Studios running! That's a feat today!

Doug
Message: Posted by: landmark (May 8, 2014 07:38PM)
Terri Rogers.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Jun 28, 2015 12:54AM)
Dell O'Dell the queen of rhyme patter.
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Dec 29, 2015 04:12AM)
Heqq! Bill!!!

I read through this entire thread looking for Dell O'Dell! I never knew her, but, from everything I've heard, she was a real professional!

My friend, Michael CLAXTON, has just written and published a book on her life. She was a real credit to the profession.

At one point, she had at least 3 men working for her as assistants. No one ever saw them!

She was so busy, that she had 3 sets of props. Jay Marshall, in his younger days, was one of the assistants.

She would often have 3 gigs in one evening. Jay's job was to go to a club, set her props, watch her work, and, when she left for her second of three gigs, pack her props, and, go home. I can't remember the other two men. One was a "retired" old pro.

BTW, Suzy Wandas, whom I met in the '60s, at Abbott's GTG, was another fine performer. She was most talented, and the "Wandas Sisters" were headliners in Europe.
Message: Posted by: DaKine Oregon (Mar 10, 2018 11:54PM)
While this is a 3-year-old thread, International Women's Day 2018 just happened, so I would like to nominate American chemist Stephanie Louise Kwolek (July 31, 1923 to June 18, 2014), who was not a magician. She did, however invent Kevlar, and considering how many effects are performed by many thousands of magicians using In******* Th****, and ITRs and Yigal Mesika's Loops, etc., she deserves to be on this list.
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (Apr 25, 2018 06:19PM)
[quote]On Dec 31, 2010, ELDEMONIO wrote:
This is a very interesting topic. Does anyone know good books or documentaries of women in magic? I went to the screening of the documentary Women In Boxes at the magic castle and what an informative movie. If you haven't seen the film you can watch it here http://www.snagfilms.com/films/title/women_in_boxes/
I believe the director of the film said they would make a sequel named "women outside boxes" or something to those lines, and it would be about great female performers in magic. [/quote]

My wife bought me a DVD set which had been a PBS series; "Grand Illusions - The Story of Magic." Part Five of the second disk is "Women Conjurors - From the pioneering greats to the headliners of today." ("Today" being before 1998 when the series was made.)

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0247385/

[youtube]BQRgceYrqAs[/youtube]
Message: Posted by: Churken2 (Jun 21, 2018 11:29AM)
Tina Lenert has contributed a great deal to our art.
Message: Posted by: WitchDocChris (Jun 21, 2018 01:44PM)
Wow. I had not seen this thread previously and that is, on the surface, disappointing to read. Is there more context to Giobbi's quote?

It's been said many times in this thread and others - the magic "fraternity" (ahem) isn't very lady friendly. I am not surprised that women don't participate much - why would they want to put up with constant awkward/sexist/creepy comments? They get that enough everywhere else in the world, why put it up with it in their hobby/professional life as well? I suspect the vast majority simply choose not to participate in the community and forge their own paths.

My wife and I perform a partner sideshow act. We both write material, we both develop acts and help each other improve them. She's the Indestructible Lady (Basically a strong woman act) and we frequently have mothers tell us how inspiring she is to their daughters.

While I have a lot of hope for the generation(s) which are coming into magic currently, I feel we have a long, long way to go until women are even remotely treated equally in magic. Which has always disappointed me - This really should be a merit driven community. If you're a good performer, you're a good performer. Gender has nothing to do with that.
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (Jun 22, 2018 05:34PM)
The problem is; no matter what we present, someone like this guy would say; “Yes, But was it groundbreaking?”

In my opinion, Mllse. Herrmann, in being a female magician who headlined a full evening show, did in fact make a groundbreaking contribution to magic.
Message: Posted by: David_MacFarlane (Oct 19, 2018 10:14AM)
How many men have made groundbreaking contributions to magic in the last two centuries? I think this disagreement all hinges on what people mean by "groundbreaking" and/or whether that word was omitted in the original post. People seem to me to be answering the question, "Who are some very talented female magicians?" or "Which female magicians have made important, novel contributions to magic?" Neither of which seem to me to be the same question. Now, I'm far, far from being a magic historian, but if I were asked how many male magicians had made "groundbreaking" contributions to magic in the last two centuries, I might say 20.
Message: Posted by: David_MacFarlane (Oct 19, 2018 10:28AM)
[quote]On Jan 31, 2013, Melies wrote:
Hi everyone,

I'm new to magic (I've only studied it for a year now), but am absolutely passionate about it. However, it's so disheartening to see how frankly sexist the magic world is. Giobbi's apparent skepticism that any woman had ever contributed anything to magic is no different from what men have been saying about women for centuries, about women and, let's see...poetry, drama, literature as such, social science, natural science, philosophy, tennis, chess...you name it. Even comedy, a similar performing art: the late Christopher Hitchens said that only men can be funny (he apparently had never heard of Lucille Ball, Madeline Kahn, Tina Fey, Gilda Radnor, and a hundred other brilliant comedic actors). ...[/quote]

You do a real disservice to Hitchens' essay, which, despite it's provocative title did not claim that there weren't very funny and talented women. Hitchens referenced numerous funny women in his essay. His point, as I understood it, was that humour plays a very different role in life for men and women, that being funny, able to entertain a women and demonstrate evolutionarily desirable intelligence thru wit, was a necessary ability for men.

The essay is here...

https://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2007/01/hitchens200701
Message: Posted by: Poor dini (Jun 2, 2019 08:48AM)
Dorothy Dietrich has contributed not only a massive amount to escapology; but also a ton to the preservation of Houdini memorabilia (she owns the Houdini museum) but the also the history of magic. Gay blackstone hand crafted the “infamous” magician’s “m” ring (I could be wrong on that, but I’m 99% sure)