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Topic: 3 coin vanish....with reappear...or not?
Message: Posted by: Earful (Jan 4, 2011 10:00PM)
Have been playing around with a couple of 3 coin vanish routines. One uses gimmicked coins and there is no reappear, but you are left clean (for the most part). The other is more like a 3 coin vanish and reappear, which therefore somewhat makes it a 3 across. Just wanted to get you guys's take on a nice quick routine with different endings and which you prefer? Both of these are done by prolific magi, by the way.
Message: Posted by: vpatanio (Jan 4, 2011 11:00PM)
I like the reappear version ungimmicked.

You could also check out Chris Kenner's Totally out of control. There are a few great routines in there...3 coin vanishes, one with a kicker ending, as well as 3 Fly and the Deep. All good routines.

I also think Ponta the Smith has a 3 coin routine, but I am not sure, I don't own his DVD.

-Vinny
Message: Posted by: mavericklancer (Jan 4, 2011 11:55PM)
Eric Jones's Oxy Clean Coin Routine and Homer Liwag's CoinTwo are awesome routines that look utterly impossible. Both are generally done with gaffs, but CoinTwo has a version that is done with 3 regular coins and sleeves which is almost as deceptive. I also quite enjoy Michael Vincent's 3 coin routine (no gaffs), which was on volume 2 of his Rhapsodies in Silver and Other Mysteries set. He has some ingenious ways of shuttling coins and his second vanish is particularly well constructed.

Ponta's 3 coin routine is a 3 coins across, which is one of my favorite coins across.
Message: Posted by: benjie84 (Jan 5, 2011 12:10AM)
Id have to vote for Liwag's CoinTwo. Great three coin production and vanish and reproduction sequence. Also take a look at some of Troy Hoosers work!
Message: Posted by: Ron Vergilio (Jan 5, 2011 01:28AM)
Marion Boykins "Grandpa Coins 2" is a sweet routine with appearances and vanishes of three ungaffed coins. Nice little routine.

-Ron
Message: Posted by: Sean Giles (Jan 5, 2011 02:51AM)
Į agree with all of the above. Michael Vincents routine (based on rune klans I think) is great and has many phases. Coin Two is a nice clean routine. But if you want a quick, visual routine with no gaffs that can be done anywhere then Marions is the way to go. One of my favourites.
Message: Posted by: rannie (Jan 5, 2011 03:53AM)
How about this...

http://www.vimeo.com/8223614

Just foolin around! There might be some phases that could spark some ideas for you.
Message: Posted by: fonda57 (Jan 5, 2011 11:07AM)
For just fooling around that looks pretty dern magical to me.
In Williamson's Wonders there are two ungaffed three coin appearance/vanish/ re-appear routines. One is When You're Behind You're Ahead and the other is Money Talks. Both are very fun and magical.
Message: Posted by: vpatanio (Jan 5, 2011 04:46PM)
I totally agree with the above about Cointwo. I own both of Homer Liwag's coin dvds and they are both incredible

-Vinny
Message: Posted by: Earful (Jan 5, 2011 05:08PM)
I have MB's Granpas Coins 2....I didn't think to seek there for this. I have playing around with C. Kenners 3-Fry effect (with no gaffs), and one from Joshua Jay. I know H.Liwags and Pontas work is astounding, not sure I have the skill yet for them...Thanks for the replies.....good stuff!
Message: Posted by: cperkins (Jan 5, 2011 05:10PM)
Chris Kenner's Three Fry is a nifty little Vanish and Production of three coins and Gary Jones and Chris Congrieve have some great ideas with a three coin production, three fly and three coin vanish in their DVD, Flying Tonight - great stuff!
Message: Posted by: Jaz (Jan 5, 2011 05:18PM)
A couple of thoughts.

If you take the coins from a pocket or purse then a reproduction and returning to the pocket or purse is fine.

If the coins are magically produced then a complete vanish where they return to the unknown is fine.

Do I always do routines this way? No but I think it's a couple of nice ways to do routines.
Message: Posted by: Michael Rubinstein (Jan 5, 2011 05:52PM)
Geoff latta's A Trick With Three Coins is a classic. You can find it in volume one of the NYCMS DVD series. I have a few versions out myself. Check out Triple Play on volume 5, Deja Vu coin vanish on volume 11, and my new Sliding Wild coin, on our next set of DVD's, which is a three coin production, change to copper, change to silver, then 3 coin vanish. No gaffs, I don't know the meaning of the word.
Message: Posted by: Earful (Jan 5, 2011 06:28PM)
Thanks for the insight Jaz.....makes a great deal of sense....since I am still putting a routine together. Michael, your work is legendary, I am humbled (really) that you read and responded. Could you possibly PM me with info on the new material?
Message: Posted by: Mb217 (Jan 5, 2011 06:39PM)
Thanks for the kind comments about my [b]Grandpa's Coins 2[/b]. I think another just wonderful 3 coin routine along these lines is Justin Miller's "Silver Dream." Very nice moves that were very inspiring to me. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imXNRgmgHys&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCn9hT_CqQ&feature=related
Message: Posted by: Michael Rubinstein (Jan 5, 2011 06:41PM)
It's not secret. The new set of dvd's , volumes
14, 15, and 16, are entitled Methods, Performances, and Presentations. They contain routines by myself, Roth, Gallo, Brewer, Franzis, Fitch, and additional material by Citino, Watkins, DeSouza, and more! The theory by Fitch one is worth more than the price of the dvds
Message: Posted by: Earful (Jan 5, 2011 06:53PM)
Mr. Boykins, you started my inspiration with coins once I got back into magic, your the greatest! Michael...is this set available yet?
Message: Posted by: Michael Rubinstein (Jan 5, 2011 08:52PM)
No, but I hope it will be out by the middle of February! In addition to Roth's Asian coin Act, hightlights include a great coin bending routine that won't set you back hundreds of dollars, some fantastic Okito box stuff by Gallo, Two versions of a classic card plot that has been transformed into a coin trick, a NEW idea for the Cylinder and Coins by Jean Emmanuel Franzis, a fabulous translocation effect by Doug Brewer, Voodoo revelation, now the closing routine for my act, Bob Fitch talking about stuff that is so important for the coin worker, as well as giving up a couple of his pet routines, and so much more!Close to 40 routines will make up this set, with bonus material -we have so much good stuff, its hard to select the few pieces we include with each set!
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Jan 6, 2011 04:16PM)
[quote]
On 2011-01-04 23:00, Earful wrote:
Have been playing around with a couple of 3 coin vanish routines. ...
[/quote]

Perhaps it depends on what is motivating the coin vanish behavior. Is it the coins? A nervous tic of yours? Are you making them vanish? If so, why? More importantly what's in it for the audience?
Message: Posted by: Earful (Jan 6, 2011 09:34PM)
Thanks Jonathan....I, myself...as a amateur magician have been astonished by these routines ever since I returned to magic aprox. 6 mo. ago. The premise of money will probably be my whole close-up/parlor act, with a timely economic wrinkle. I don't have a nervous tic...yet! The audience will hopefully get a combo confuse/amaze vibe. These seem to be the main motivations...
Message: Posted by: ugdini13 (Jan 6, 2011 11:03PM)
If you want an idea of a pretty routine, check out Eric De Camp's 3 coin vanish and reproduction on his site. http://www.Ericdecamps.com The routine is not that hard to figure out, but he does it so smoothly. A true master


Kelly
Message: Posted by: Mb217 (Jan 7, 2011 09:38AM)
Pretty neat but his "Ring & Rope" effect there is just beautiful stuff. :)

De Camps is a wonderful close-up magician, he's the whole package. Always admired his work, especially his presentation skills. Glad to hear his name mentioned here. :)
Message: Posted by: Earful (Jan 8, 2011 11:29AM)
Even with the twists and turns this thread is taking.....I am learning SO much, and am grateful for all the resources and information.......keep it coming!
Message: Posted by: cperkins (Jan 8, 2011 03:11PM)
Kelly -

That three coin vanish and reproduction by Eric Decamps is slick...thanks for the post!
Message: Posted by: rannie (Jan 8, 2011 03:43PM)
A 3 coin vanish from some time back..... and a reproduction that is quite funky! Hope this cheers up the thread! It's 2011.....a happy and magical year!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbajvXNcEZA&feature=related

Hope this sparks some ideas for you coin fanatics!

Cheers and greetings from sunny Manila!

Rannie
Message: Posted by: mavericklancer (Jan 8, 2011 04:28PM)
Haha. That was awesome, Rannie. I especially loved the kicker ending. Thanks for sharing.
Message: Posted by: Sean Giles (Jan 8, 2011 04:44PM)
Sure cheered me up on a Saturday night :)
Message: Posted by: funsway (Jan 9, 2011 06:03AM)
I'd like to mention again the concept of using "non-visble coins." These are coins hwos enatural state is to be Non-visible in our plane of existance, but can be coaxed into visibility by warmth or motion -- but may slight out of visibility at any time. Within this theme coins can vanish and reappear as often as you like -- even in a spectator's hand where they are "kept warm."

An audience readily accepts this concept and handles these weird coins in a respectful manner. It can also explain the use of strange coins as they were just left lying around by some former careless magician. Thus, the coins themselves are magicial and the magician only a fella that can sense where they are and "bring them to light."

Such a "backstory" actually changes the balance of Anticipation and Surprise for the spectator, allowing for different ending for any coin routine shown more than once.
Message: Posted by: Michael Rubinstein (Jan 9, 2011 09:13AM)
There was a cool Steven King Book, the Langoliers, where people went back in time, and then forward in time. At the end the people catch up to the present and pop into existance. Might make for some good patter possibilities.
Message: Posted by: cperkins (Jan 9, 2011 12:43PM)
In addition to having specs accept what we do as magic or at least magical, we sometimes give them absolutely "whacked out" premises to swallow as well as we execute routines. Sorcery and super science themes often amount to a tough sell for adults as least. Overthinking about patter themes can ruin otherwise very nice routines if mechanics are just so so. I'm just saying....
Message: Posted by: Michael Rubinstein (Jan 9, 2011 12:59PM)
For the most part, I'm with you. I try to make my patter reflect personal experiences, or to something the audience can relate to . Sometimes just a play by play works. However, there is certainly space for patter lines relating to far out premises. just the thought of making a person believe a coin is appearing or dissapearing is a stretch. The patter might be no less a stretch, but may fit the presentation. Fir example, Doug Brewer on the NYCMS DVDs relates to stories of the transporter in Star Trek. I've used patter about making a wish and have it come true. However, I agree with your assesment that if the machanics are not good, it doesn't matter what tou say.
Message: Posted by: cperkins (Jan 9, 2011 01:14PM)
This is turning into a different thread...sorry, but an interesting topic here.

Allegory, metaphor, simile tend to work more effectively for me than "cause and effect" especially if the cause of the magic approaches the absurd. Some of the cause and effects I hear as the magic unfolds is often simply ludicrous and dismissed quickly by me or the specs.

A challenge also is often that the coin magic routine is over before one can develop really interesting patter.

Different strokes...
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Jan 9, 2011 02:14PM)
[quote]
On 2011-01-04 23:00, Earful wrote:
Have been playing around with a couple of 3 coin vanish routines...
[/quote]

What is the routine about?
What is your objective in making the coins vanish?
If not your objective - how do you ordinarily keep the coins from vanishing?
Message: Posted by: Earful (Jan 10, 2011 09:31PM)
I am putting together what might be called a beginners medium length coin routine. So far it starts with a visual 3 fly...and then....here we are...with this post. This is really hard for me...because I am a tad overwhelmed with all the material. And I am like a sponge...and take it all in! Sure is fun:-)
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Jan 10, 2011 09:56PM)
While you may be a sponge, what's it about as far as your audience is concerned?
Message: Posted by: rannie (Jan 11, 2011 12:50AM)
Just enjoy Earful.... just be like the sponge that you are now. Gather all you can.... learn and understand HOW and more importantly WHY magic works. Practice and develop as time goes by. When you are ready... your audience will be in for a treat! You said the most important thing.... FUN! Keep it fun and enjoyable... It is the only way you can give enjoyment. While it is also important to learn technical things and theoretical stuff..... they are put to waste if not applied in real performances. People are different everywhere you go. One of the most important things to learn is how to read your audience. There are some who would not care less if you have a great story line... Some might even find it corny... or find these outrageous patters as insulting to their intelligence. There are some who would see something really magical, but see it as a puzzle. What works for Harry, may not work for Mary... There are fantastic guidelines , but flexibility is key. This is an exciting phase. Best of luck and stay MAGICAL! Your audience will be waiting patiently for you!

Cheers and Mabuhay from SUNNY MANILA!

Rannie
Message: Posted by: Earful (Jan 11, 2011 09:39PM)
Like I said previously.....and Thanks Rannie (envious of your winter in Manila, used to live in Okinawa).....I have learned and gained insight from each and every one of you. I am starting to feel like I fit in this fellowship here. I started learning coin sleights from Bob Brown many years ago, and although I didn't then, now I want to display my mysteries for others. As far as my initial post.....I need to make sure whatever I do, it needs to make some sense.
Message: Posted by: dedikc (Jan 13, 2011 03:06PM)
Just to say that I worked something that I have not see in print, but Mister Rubinstein can say more:

I work the Retention Open Palm Steal from the Dr Rubinstein. And I find that I can maket this retention with two, three or more coin in edge grip.
It looks natural and take of the ideas of hiding coins.

Is it something new?
Message: Posted by: Michael Rubinstein (Jan 14, 2011 06:53PM)
Hi, I am intrigued by what you are doing. Edge grip position involves holding something between the tips of the thumb and second finger, with other coins hidden clipped by the edges with the thumb and second fingers. Since the action of doing the ROPS move involves grasping the coin to be stolen with the tips of the thumb and second fingers, and bringing the coin under the thumb with the second finger so that it ends up on fingertip rest, I have difficulty understanding how you can execute the move. HOWEVER, I do the move all the time with coins in nowhere palm position, which will free up the thumb and second finger to do their thing.
Message: Posted by: Bad Conjuror (Jan 14, 2011 08:47PM)
I think it depends on the setting you're performing in. Close proximity, I'd say bring them back with non-gimmicked coins. This way they get to examine them if they choose. If you're further from your audience, I'd say just vanish them using awesome gimmicks.
Message: Posted by: dedikc (Jan 15, 2011 08:59AM)
Michael you are rigt. Not the good name. I say edge grip because it's like a edge grip but without holding something. Like a curl palm with the thumb et the edge of the stack. Because all the routines make use of the edge grip so I don't want to change the coin position in the hand.

Glad to see that I 'm not the only one to think at this.
Message: Posted by: Earful (Jan 15, 2011 08:35PM)
Thanks Eric....it will be mostly stand-up parlor style (like in the front room of a home)....to begin with. I plan on a table/Bar version as well......
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Jan 15, 2011 09:12PM)
[quote]
On 2011-01-09 13:43, cperkins wrote:
In addition to having specs accept what we do as magic or at least magical, we sometimes give them absolutely "whacked out" premises to swallow as well as we execute routines. Sorcery and super science themes often amount to a tough sell for adults as least. Overthinking about patter themes can ruin otherwise very nice routines if mechanics are just so so. I'm just saying....
[/quote]

I totally agree about asking folks to take any "whacked out" premise seriously as awkward.

On the other side here's part of a script I wrote for a coin production sequence that starts when you take out a coin purse, open it and find nothing, then go fishing in your pocket to look for it: "I'd like to show you something with a special coin. It's always ahead of the game [i]appears at fingertips of hand while other hand is reaching into pocket[/i]. This next coin ... and those are the three coins, well four when you remember where you put it".

The above sets the stage for coins appearing, going invisible, not being where you are looking etc yet also makes it pretty clear that you are also well aware that they know such can't be true. So it's like a joke where they get to laugh along with the action instead of punch lines.

Getting to the end of the paragraph quoted - I feel it useful to caution against a focus on mechanics and instead suggest a focus on clear evident effect.
Message: Posted by: Earful (Jan 15, 2011 10:32PM)
Great stuff Jonathan.....I DO use a coin purse....and I really don't want something too corny with respect to a story-line. This does help immensely with a logical sequence....this could even be mimed to music......hmmmm....
Message: Posted by: cperkins (Jan 16, 2011 05:33AM)
Jonathan -

Beautiful magic results from this kind of thinking...clever! This is a total opposite to what I was referring to above.