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Topic: Soft coins and shiny coins. NOOB
Message: Posted by: shamsiel (Jan 8, 2011 03:29PM)
Ok, Im a fumbling rookie at all of this. And the reason I havent been posting as much as I was in the beginning has nothing to do with loosing interest but because the amazing, and magical, SEARCH function is back! No need to repeat things posted time and time again... And usually ppl catch a lot of flame for that so I don't want to have anyone put a clown nose spell on me, or a mentalist-hypno-dumbing effect on my wife (well, I will pay for that one on morgans).

My questions: I keep hearing the term "Soft Coins". I guess I am not that far into Modern Coin Magic to know what the term means. So far I have gathered that it means coins that are worn down. Worn down where? All over? On the edge where the little ridges are? On the face? And, What are the advantages and disadvantages of "Soft Coins?"

My other question has to do with milled coins. Some of my coins are too old (some are even 1882,3,9 morgans) Should I buy a new roll of half dollars and Dollars to practice with? Will they be more beginner friendly?

I am sucking less and less every day at coins. Would like to thank the following individuals. Bobo, and Metal by Eric Jones (stuck in the first 15 minutes of the video because I suck and needed a visual to the Awesome Bobo material -mtv generation (rolls eyes) but when they had music videos-. (Mr. Marion -AKA Mb217- sent me a PM with a video that helped me find the CP sweet spot. Thank you Marion. Ask nicely and he might do the same for you.)

I appreciate the opinion of my coin magic mentors.
Respect,
Shamsiel
(My dry hands and the sound a coin makes as it hits the kitchen tiles is driving me nuts!)
Message: Posted by: Johnny Butterfield (Jan 8, 2011 03:47PM)
[quote]
On 2011-01-08 16:29, shamsiel wrote:
Ok, Im a fumbling rookie at all of this[/quote]

As were we all at one tine or another! The only dumb question is the one left unasked.

[quote]My questions: I keep hearing the term "Soft Coins". I guess I am not that far into Modern Coin Magic to know what the term means. So far I have gathered that it means coins that are worn down. Worn down where? All over? On the edge where the little ridges are? On the face? And, What are the advantages and disadvantages of "Soft Coins?"[/quote]

Worn down on the faces. The advantage is that in sleights where the faces rub against one another, they are quieter than coins with a lot of relief on the faces (the obverse and reverse, as collectors call them).

[quote]My other question has to do with milled coins. Some of my coins are too old (some are even 1882,3,9 morgans) Should I buy a new roll of half dollars and Dollars to practice with? Will they be more beginner friendly?[/quote]

I find the ones with milled edges are easier to work with, but your mileage may vary. I've become passable with coins that don't have a milled edge (or reeded edge, as numismatists call it).

[quote](Mr. Marion -AKA Mb217- sent me a PM with a video that helped me find the CP sweet spot. Thank you Marion. Ask nicely and he might do the same for you.)[/quote]

Marion is a class act and a top notch magician. Check out his downloads - they're a bargain at twice the price.

[quote]the sound a coin makes as it hits the kitchen tiles is driving me nuts![/quote]

Practice over your bed!
Message: Posted by: mavericklancer (Jan 8, 2011 04:25PM)
Another great accompaniment to Bobo's is Ben Salinas' DVD rendition of Bobo's Modern Coin Magic. He goes over all of the major sleights/routines in Bobo's and gives you a nice visual reference.

Fman seems to have answered most of your questions, but here are a few other pieces of advice:
- Get a close up mat and practice sitting down or over a table with the mat. Dropping a Morgan on your toes hurts.
- Coins with milled edges are easier to CP, but don't transfer as easily between palms since they tend to "stick" (for me at least). I also find that they're much harder to muscle pass.
- Soft coins are most advantageous in 3Fly or 3 Coin Vanish/Production sequences. The fact that they don't make sounds when rubbed together, and are relatively flat give them the added advantage of being able to be handled as a single block. This makes them much easier to transfer between hands or between palms.
Message: Posted by: shamsiel (Jan 8, 2011 04:28PM)
Thank you for your reply. I am going to have to learn to quote snippets like you did with my post. I use the quote function and it just quotes the whole thing.

Practicing over my bed is a great idea. I will probably drop them just as much but the sound that reminds me how much I suck will be absent. A huge improvement. thanks.

If milled edges ("reeded edge" learning new things every day.)can help me at least an itsy bit I will get a fresh roll.

Soft Coins are quieter in sleights? Im not doing anything with multiple coins but it is good to know in advance. I would have eventually figured it out but that is what mentors are for... to help the fumbling noobs. thank you.

Marions downloads? Link please? I am definitively buying.

Respects,
Shamsiel.
Message: Posted by: shamsiel (Jan 8, 2011 04:33PM)
[quote]
On 2011-01-08 17:25, mavericklancer wrote:
Fman seems to have answered most of your questions, but here are a few other pieces of advice:
- Get a close up mat and practice sitting down or over a table with the mat. Dropping a Morgan on your toes hurts.
- Coins with milled edges are easier to CP, but don't transfer as easily between palms since they tend to "stick" (for me at least). I also find that they're much harder to muscle pass.
- Soft coins are most advantageous in 3Fly or 3 Coin Vanish/Production sequences. The fact that they don't make sounds when rubbed together, and are relatively flat give them the added advantage of being able to be handled as a single block. This makes them much easier to transfer between hands or between palms.
[/quote]
Thank you.
I am a DIY kind of guy and will create a close up mat soon. Have been thinking about it because the sound of coins hitting the floor is driving me nuts.
Although I haven't handled more than one coin yet I think I understand why it would be best to use soft coins for multiple coin sleights. Thanks you.

Respects,
Shamsiel
Message: Posted by: mavericklancer (Jan 8, 2011 04:48PM)
[quote]
On 2011-01-08 17:28, shamsiel wrote:
Thank you for your reply. I am going to have to learn to quote snippets like you did with my post. I use the quote function and it just quotes the whole thing. [/quote]

You can do that by typing: [ quote ] text here [/ quote] without the spaces


[quote]Marions downloads? Link please? I am definitively buying.[/quote]

http://www.vinnymarini.com

Also be sure to check out Tim Feher and Vinny Marini there too. One Coin 2.0 was my first one coin routine and has some great work on subtleties and the french drop. Vinny has some great stuff, much of which utilizes his innovative crimp palm. Marion's Crimp Change is a MUST, and can be found on his Short Pocketz and Revisited downloads as well as the main Crimp Change downloads.
Message: Posted by: BanzaiMagic (Jan 8, 2011 07:22PM)
You can also delete the unnecessary text after using the quote function. Just don't get rid of the [ quote ] or [ /quote ].

You might want to keep an open mind about purchasing a close up mat. Good ones are pretty cheap now. Your materials might end up costing more.

Regards,

Alan
Message: Posted by: Michael Rubinstein (Jan 8, 2011 07:30PM)
I have been using soft barber half dollars, along with old queen Victoria veil type English pennies, and the things you can do with them are really special, especially with the slide move that I teach.
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Jan 8, 2011 08:13PM)
Soft Coins: Seems to be a David Roth term. He what the books on Ramsay's magic call "well worn". If you leave them as bought rather than polishing them up ... they feel different in hand - so "soft" is a very good descriptor.

Milling: I believe Jamie Scholcraft used to offer re-milling the edges so you can grip them more easily.
Message: Posted by: PAUL K (Jan 8, 2011 08:25PM)
[quote]
On 2011-01-08 17:25, mavericklancer wrote:
Another great accompaniment to Bobo's is Ben Salinas' DVD rendition of Bobo's Modern Coin Magic. He goes over all of the major sleights/routines in Bobo's and gives you a nice visual reference.

Get the Modern Coin Magic DVD it will help you out alot.It has a 170 sleights and tricks on the 4 DVDs.

http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Coin-Magic-Sleights-Tricks/dp/B000JQQKJA

You cannot beat the price for what you get and its easy to learn from.

Paul
Message: Posted by: shamsiel (Jan 8, 2011 11:33PM)
The Ben Salina's DVD of Bobos Modern Coin Magic is something I should have gotten by now. I have no problem learning from books, but seeing someone explain the moves is priceless to me. I'm ordering it this weekend.

And thumbs up for the tutorials on learning to quote properly.

Thank you all for your replies.
Respects,
Shamsiel.
Message: Posted by: Hare (Jan 11, 2011 11:37AM)
I personally much prefer soft coins, and use exactly what you do- old Morgan Dollars. I've loved doing coin magic for 40 years and there just arent any American coins I'd rather handle. The only caveat I have to add is that it is best to find coins with "similar" wear...sort through them, be choosy when buying them, and get yourself a "set" that all handle the same, and stack neatly together. These will be real stealth coins that don't clink or grind together so much when sliding together, and, you will come to know precisely how they will handle all the time in any combination.

Coins with raised, pronounced edges are easier for newer coin people to handle- But I think that once one is attuned to handling coins a lot, it no longer is any sort of issue, but one can never handle newer coins as quietly as nicely worn ones, even after many years of practice, in my opinion.

I also think older coins are just- more interesting. New coins have higher visibilty at a distance under lights, but for closer work, the contrast of part shiny/part dark- the more visible beautiful details of the coins are aesthetically much more pleasing to me, as an artist- so old worn coins trump new ones for me, in that department.
Message: Posted by: Lawrence O (Jan 11, 2011 12:41PM)
Apart from Bobo's book and Salinas demonstration of it (which is definitely useful for newcomers to coin magic), do not forget some major sources

David Roth Expert Coin Magic both in book and DVD set: David is still the greatest and it's not about to change
Michael Rubinstein Encyclopedia of Coin magic DVD set (you just need to have it to look for alternative movement every time you want to adapt a routine to your style or character or theme or story...: this is the absolute reference. It's to the coins what Roberto Giobbi's card college is to the cards)
Richard Kaufman Coin Magic (the book that became even more essential than Bobo)
Curtis Kam Fists of Fury DVD series (for the standing performer)
The New York Coin Magic Seminar DVD series (a definitive must)
Dean Dill DVDs (couldn't be any cleaner without the coldness of an infirmary: will make your hair grow in a strange way)

... and this is far from being the end of a fascinating studying journey (Al Goshman, Mike Gallo, Ross Bertram, Jack Chanin, Kainoa harbottle, David Stone, Eric Jones, Troy Hooser, Garrett Thomas, David Williamson, Dan Watkins, John Born, John Carney, Mickey Silver, Tony Slydini, Horace Benett, David Neighbors, Chris Kenner, Reed McClintock, Paul Diamond, Lewis Ganson, Juan Tamariz, Gary Kurz, Jay Sankey, Tom Stone, Lamont Ream, Al Schneider, Doug Brewer, Vinny Marini, Marion Boykin, Tim Feher, Justin Miller, Jerry Mentzer, Tony Clark, Alex Conradi...)