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Topic: How short of show is possible?
Message: Posted by: DrNorth (Feb 10, 2011 06:11AM)
There is an annual talent show locally that I've done a mentalist act for , but this year I was thinking trying a hypnosis act. I've done trance work in individual sessions and a few gimmicky type pieces, I am practiced in induction, but not for a short show. I want to do a real act for this show (if it is possible in the time restraint). Acts are usually given no more then 10 minutes. is there any type of bit possible in that short a time? If not and I can bargain for a longer segment how long should I ask for 15-20 minutes?
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Feb 10, 2011 06:38AM)
The Dr Q act in Ormond McGill's encyclopaedia, or a variant, is what you are looking for. You could get it into ten hilarious minutes.
Message: Posted by: JonChase (Feb 10, 2011 10:44AM)
I think the problem is we forget that whilst the simpler aspects of what we do is for us not that remarkable. For the audience even the light and heavy hands test, magnetic fingers, and the most amazing thing of all the actual induction, are of themselves totally awesome and can themselves be almost the whole entertainment. I love the way Anthony Galie uses this to make this induction get laughs and gasps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hzylkf6Yce8&NR=1&feature=fvwp
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Feb 10, 2011 12:24PM)
I don't think you could get away with doing an induction then leading them off stage as a show. Plus if you watch that clip he had done an induction previously...you wouldn't get away with that in any of the venues I used to do. I doubt Anthony does either he has a full show I assume.

Ok for the impromtu guys but a paying gig?
Message: Posted by: Shrubsole (Feb 10, 2011 01:41PM)
Yes that video looked more like RE-induction not first-induction.

At one stage with the woman he was having difficulty with he said "Do you remember how relaxed you were a few minutes ago?"

So at this show would it be possible to pop on and do the selection and then take them somewhere safe to induce them all ready for your show? Not the best approach but...
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Feb 10, 2011 07:12PM)
The film was edited. He did an induction of some sort before the clip and probably some suggestion tests too. In fact I think he uses the baloon tied to the arm to start with and has quite a long pre talk before.

His induction probably takes half the show. Although it works for him and his target audience I find it really boring. You couldn't do a 10 min show from watching his method.

10 mins? Why not a good mentalism piece? Forget hypnosis.
Message: Posted by: quicknotist (Feb 10, 2011 11:36PM)
I agree with what most everyone else has said. You can get a lot done in 10 mins but it's unlikely to be all that impressive in the context of a comp.
I reckon you have two avenues open to you:
1. Rove around beforehand and identify some somnambulists you can work with, re-inducing them on stage. (Maybe even give them amnesia for previous inductions.) Then a few funny group skits and maybe one or two individual ones.
2. Mentalism, but suggestion/influence themed effects which leave the audience wondering whether hypnosis was involved. (Volunteer seated, relaxed etc.) but if someone actually goes under, treat it as a bonus ;)
Either way, make sure you allow time for a full wake-up (probably offstage.)

That's how I'd play it. One or other of those.
Message: Posted by: JonChase (Feb 11, 2011 05:05AM)
Actually Anthony had done a light and heavy in the audience. He uses 'you are feeling relaxed' as part of that process, "To get that arm going up into the air I wan't you to relax." it isn't what most stage pro's would call a re-induction because what most people recognise as an induction hasn't taken place, although I think you induce when you say sit up and they do. At least for the somnambulists.

However as usual MP you are missing the point entirely. This isn't about how good or what You think of Galie, Who in my opinion most working hypnos can't get close to the mans charm and presentation skills.

The question wasn't how to do a full show. It was how not to.

Dr's doing a small local talent show in the states not a pub in Graiglieth. The audience is Entirely different. In fact so different I really do think that your style wouldn't work in that situation MP as you seem to be a one audience pony, and it's great to have a niche, so you are right.

Shrub, there's no need do them in advance, to an Audience the induction IS the Hypnosis. When Derren Brown does a handshake interrupt the audience gasp. I think it's a bloody shame that thanks to some overly vocal operators that even those who should know better - magicians who do a bit of hypnosis and who get applause for chasing aces or rubber balls for gods sake - are forgetting that one doesn't need to be comic, or over the top, or just rude, to make something entertaining. And with somnambulists a group induction can be done in a few seconds. But I digress.

I have Done a ten to fifteen minute slot, a test, an induction, smells and making numbers disappear and woke them and stormed it in several showcases in the midlands over the years for some of the hardest and most belligerent club secretaries and got krap loads of work and could do that in any venue anyone here has ever done, anywhere or time and still storm it. And would win any talent show.

It isn't what you do, never has been, it's about how you present what you do. In my opinion.

And lets face very few people here think what they do is worthy of either showing us video or bothering to use their actual name or photo so people they are advising can look them up and validate what they think is 'performance' and then judge whether that is what they want to do. Or not.
Message: Posted by: Shrubsole (Feb 11, 2011 06:17AM)
I agree, Jon. What we take as not very impressive because we have seen it a million times before, would probably be very interesting to an audience. It's typical Hypnotists thinking like Hypnotists and Magicians thinking Like Magicians when we should all be thinking like audience members as they are the ones watching the show! And it leaves you with more material to do in a final, larger and hopefully longer show.

I also like quicknotist's idea of the mentalism/hypnosis fusion: You can take it any way it goes and always have a guaranteed WOW ending. (I know it's the safe way that I, and I'm sure many others, started in hypnosis. All the fun and practise with none of the risk of total failure)
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Feb 11, 2011 07:50AM)
If you can get someone to pay you to do an induction in 10 mins then great go for it. I agree that Anthony has a show that works for him in a particular market. Probably a very lucrative market. I don't miss the point I can see that it just bores me. The reason it IS like a re-induction is because his heavy and light is more or less an induction too. He does a pretalk before that also. So before he even gets near the end of his induction 10 mins would be lomg gone. While I don't disbelieve you that you say you have done `10 mins hypno shows I think doing some good mentalism is a better option. Especially for someone with little exprience of hypnosis. Which seems to be the case by the original poster.

I wouldn't rule out doing a Anthony style show if I thought there was a market for it here. Its just that at least up here hypnosis is still regarded negatively with business people. Or was last time I probed into it a while back. We are very reserved up here.

By the way I have only ever done 2 maybe three pubs at the very start of my career. The reson ~I stopped wasn't because of snobbery but because the venues themselves didn't lend a good place for good shows. My venues were anything from holiday camps, minors social clubs, theatres to universities to military. I did edinburgh medical faculty ball 4 years in a row. I have also taught and used hypnosis with companies with Mercedes Benz Sabb and Harley Davidson dealerships. Edinburgh Festival was hardly a pub it was a major venue.

I was once ofered a 6 week tour of Ireland. I turned it down since one night I would be in a catholic club and the next a prodestant. I was assured I would be looked after very well. But I just didn't like the idea. It was about 15 years ago and there were still some troubles going on at the time.

Currently the PGA are looking into a pilot programme I created for golfers which may become part of their degree. Hardly a one pony audience. I have two presentations for them next month. I was considering a quick demo of overt hypnosis. But I have decided against it as it is too risky in terms of installing fear and the wrong message. Sime of the audience will be members of clubs where they paid £60k upwards for memberships. Plus the owners of these clubs may be there also. It is too risky.

But if you can get away with an induction go for it. However for someone with little experience it could be disaterous.I would go for the safer bet. Again he wouold have to guage his audience and what they wanted to pay for.

I am saying where I am from on the whole an audience would feel short changed if all you did was a very quick induction and missing finger. I personally wouldn't do it.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Feb 11, 2011 08:22AM)
But I do agree audience love inductions. I have a very different style of induction. Its the first thing people talk about after they see my show. You can see it on youtube in front of 1000 audience. The pub is somewhere I go AFTER a show.

Also one of the things I discovered during the lead up to the festival shows after speaking members of the public while putting up posters was that there is still a very negative mindset and fear about hypnosis with many people. I heard numerous stories how they knew someone who volunteered on stage and was never the same afterwards.

I even got that with a local radio station where the dj said one of his friends said they became reclusive and anxious after being on stage.

A load of rubbish but it still shows you there is a negative with a major part of the public reminent from the media attack in the 90s.
Message: Posted by: Rotten (Feb 11, 2011 09:56AM)
"You can see it on youtube in front of 1000 audience."

I would like to see that. How do I find it?

Regards,
Ted
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Feb 11, 2011 10:40AM)
[quote]
On 2011-02-11 08:50, mindpunisher wrote:
I have only ever done 2 maybe three pubs at the very start of my career. The reson ~I stopped wasn't because of snobbery but because the venues themselves didn't lend a good place for good shows.
[/quote]
I'll second that. I did a pub last night, and when I was announced not a single person looked up from their pints. When I called for volunteers I got three. When the promoter said they'd see me again, I said not in my lifetime.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Feb 11, 2011 11:41AM)
[quote]
On 2011-02-11 10:56, Rotten wrote:
"You can see it on youtube in front of 1000 audience."

I would like to see that. How do I find it?

Regards,
Ted
[/quote]


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECAXaa-BwxY


http://www.shrinkhypnoticshows.biz

I have another induction that's as twice as fast but unfortunately not got it on film. But it gets a huge reaction and talked about after.
Message: Posted by: Shrubsole (Feb 11, 2011 12:41PM)
[quote]
On 2011-02-11 11:40, TonyB2009 wrote:
[quote]
On 2011-02-11 08:50, mindpunisher wrote:
I have only ever done 2 maybe three pubs at the very start of my career. The reson ~I stopped wasn't because of snobbery but because the venues themselves didn't lend a good place for good shows.
[/quote]
I'll second that. I did a pub last night, and when I was announced not a single person looked up from their pints. When I called for volunteers I got three. When the promoter said they'd see me again, I said not in my lifetime.
[/quote]

And out of those 3, did you get any good responders?
Message: Posted by: quicknotist (Feb 11, 2011 02:14PM)
I'm sure the original poster will make his own mind up.
I'm not saying it can't be done in 10 minutes. I've already outlined to a few here (by PM) my approach for a 10 minute "bit" I did for Smirnoff some years ago. Seven or eight times the same day, for different audiences of sales reps as part of a 45 minute brand promotion.
BUT I had a specific purpose - to induce someone while still seated in the audience and make them unable to say "Bourbon" (Not hard, I know.)
The guy who introduced me, under my direction did a lot of the "safety" pre-talk for me (and built expectancy.)
I heard it was the most talked about presentation of the day but that was in the context of a trade show.
I'm just saying to North, my feeling is that what's possible in ten minutes of hypnosis (including time taken for people to make their way to the stage) would be unlikely to win a talent competition in front of a US audience and judges who have probably seen a lot of hypnosis shows.

Reg
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Feb 11, 2011 05:44PM)
[quote]
On 2011-02-11 13:41, Shrubsole wrote:
[quote]
On 2011-02-11 11:40, TonyB2009 wrote:
[quote]
On 2011-02-11 08:50, mindpunisher wrote:
I have only ever done 2 maybe three pubs at the very start of my career. The reson ~I stopped wasn't because of snobbery but because the venues themselves didn't lend a good place for good shows.
[/quote]
I'll second that. I did a pub last night, and when I was announced not a single person looked up from their pints. When I called for volunteers I got three. When the promoter said they'd see me again, I said not in my lifetime.
[/quote]

And out of those 3, did you get any good responders?
[/quote]
One. It was one of the worst nights of my career. And it was my first show in my home town in more than a decade. Must be bad karma there somewhere.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Feb 11, 2011 06:30PM)
I got good responders but the space and the set up views for the audience and the general behaviour from audiences in pubs do not make for a good show..They ar noisey don't pay attention as Tony said. They try and sabotage the show etc etc you name it.

I respect Reg for doing what he did at the trade show he mentioned. And anyone if that's what they want to do. I personally prefer to do "shows". And is probably a gig I would never accept. I just wouldn't enjoy doing it. Everybody to their own. Likewise I don't do bars because you can't do what I call proper shows and its not how I want to be perceived by the public anyway.

I try to use hypnosis and find markets in completely different ways if I'm not doing shows. But everyone to their own thing.
Message: Posted by: Shrubsole (Feb 11, 2011 08:10PM)
Have you tried Car Parks, MP? They are the new concert halls!

:lol:
Message: Posted by: Shrubsole (Feb 11, 2011 08:12PM)
[quote]
On 2011-02-11 18:44, TonyB2009 wrote:
One. It was one of the worst nights of my career. And it was my first show in my home town in more than a decade. Must be bad karma there somewhere.
[/quote]

Well one is better than none I suppose. (Still if there had been none, at least you could have left!)
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Feb 12, 2011 06:32PM)
[quote]
On 2011-02-11 21:10, Shrubsole wrote:
Have you tried Car Parks, MP? They are the new concert halls!

:lol:
[/quote]

They probably are for some on here..
Message: Posted by: JonChase (Feb 12, 2011 06:53PM)
MP I love your induction, I should, apart from the music I've been doing handlocks and drop backs for 30 years. Lets see, Robert Halpern was the first I saw do it, then Webster, Newton, Mike Howard, McKenna, Powers, Delavar, Tim Naughty, Ian Dee, Bolton, even JRakaAS does them. Hardly unique however.

As for the long term reaction of people feeling 'bad' after stage hypnosis it's hardly preposterous I've seen people who have suffered the casual 1 2 wide awake and it can leave bad after effects. To think it can not is in my opinion careless.

I think the reason for the 'fear' is people using words like outrageous in their publicity. But what do I know.

Pub shows are fine if it's set up as a show. Admittedly did my last one a lot of years back but audiences are only trouble if you let them be in my experience.

Parties I pubs can be a bit of a bind as well, like this one, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9oq7xjRxiM

You know all I'm reading here is can't be done's and hardly a single, right how would we do it. That says lots about the nay sayers and very little about the art.
Message: Posted by: bobser (Feb 13, 2011 10:12AM)
I looked at that clip then the one from Justin Tranz.
I asked myself if there's really a such great difference between the styles of a Hollywood hypnotist and one from The Boilermaker's Club in Motherwell?
I've decided the answer is probably yes. Just a tad.
Message: Posted by: Shrubsole (Feb 13, 2011 10:26AM)
An irate Scotsman shouting in an incomprehensible language doesn't require Hypnosis, I've been to Glasgow on a Friday night! (and lived!)

:lol:
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Feb 13, 2011 12:50PM)
Jon I am not saying it can't be done. I just think there are better options especially for someone with little experience of hypnosis. And its something I probably wouldn't attempt. Everybody to their own style. If you say you could do it then I believe you.

I think the fear in the general public is a learned fear due to the splurge of anti stories in the press, on the news and tv programmes talking about the claims of certain people who say they sufferred harm. I don't think it has anything to do with the word "outrageous" although I agree certain venues and certain people will not like that. Or adults only type shows. But in general I have found that to be ok. Just the same as some people would choose not to go see Chubby Brown because of the content.

Halper was one of the first real big hypnotists in this country. At least in my life time. He was a total legend up here as we were all growing up as kids.
Message: Posted by: JonChase (Feb 13, 2011 05:49PM)
MP Compete carp. You did say it couldn't be done, as good as anyway.

Apart from McKenna in 96, who won his case, and Daemon - forget when - who lost his, there has hardly been a noticeable mention of the art at all. The worst press the business ot was mid 90's when 'He who shall not be named' was telling the world he hypnotised women to shagg them.

Of course billing ones self as outrageous and posting youtube vids of strips will put Joe public off. The majority that is apart from your claimed best audience of uni students peed out of their brains.

Halpern was the master who modernised hypnosis. I know Ken Webster claims that but Halpern was giving people onions and xray specs while most were still wiping their snotty noses on their shirt sleeves.

hey Shrub nothing wrong with Glasgow. I lived there from '74 to '76 before moving to East Kilbride and then then back to nearly Glasgow in Busby. left in 85. Give me the Glaswegians any day over some other Scotts ;-) Except my Ex-of course. And of course the Soctts here are mostly okay, especially Bobser with whom I have broken bread - - - three table and and a bottle! What a finger buffet that was! LOL

I've been in the Queens Park Café on a Saturday night and lived, ne problem. Okay so the friend I was with told me if I spoke to anyone He would kill me - England had just won 1-0 at Hampden.
Message: Posted by: DrNorth (Feb 14, 2011 07:33AM)
I just want to thank all of you for your kind words and thoughtful debate. Just a note, this is not a judged show. Just a local talent fundraiser that I've done a mentalism act for already in the past. It is always well received I wanted to do something different and don't have many tricks that would do well for an audience of 200-300. Mos of my effects are close up, parlor at best, so I kind of feel magic is out, unless they get a big screen and present it ala Copperfield. I've done trance work as a reader and for past life so am familiar with inductions, and I've done some hypnosis work as entertainment. Just not as much to consider myself extremely proficient, but enough o feel comfortable building an act.
looking over all the suggestions I may end up either scrapping the idea or doing a pseudo hypno act. Thanks again guys for all your ideas please keep them coming
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Feb 14, 2011 08:00AM)
Ok Jon I don't think it can be done but I am going to appease you anyway. If you say it can be done then Im not going to argue. I still don't think it would be that good not as good as you say it would.

And way back in Haplerns height there were talks and rumors of hypnosis being dangerous its always been there even before the 90s. Its got nothing to with it being outrageous or not. In fact you will find that the majority of the public prefer that type of show. That has always been my experience from venues I hav done when other hypnotists have been mentioned. Isn't that what Ken Webster has been doing for all those years?


The people who told me the stories hadn't even seen my poster at that point--- the radio presenter hadn't heard of me at that point. None of them had seen the youtube clips.

Halpern always used outrageous in his posters.

But it doesn't really matter where or why ITS THERE! And personally I don't believe hypnosis is completely safe anyway. But that's another old argument. I don't know where you were Jon but there were dozens of press media just before and after Mckenna won his case. I was even pulled on to TV to defend Hypnosis against claims made by the Medical and Dental Hypnosis association.

Maybe you don't watch much tv. Or read many news papers. Or maybe you just have a very focused awareness.
Message: Posted by: bobser (Feb 14, 2011 11:12AM)
Erm,I don't think there IS such a thing as a focused awareness.
Message: Posted by: JonChase (Feb 14, 2011 11:49AM)
Actually MP it's Ken that's outrageous. That is Ken is funny ka Chbby Brown. He has never got his subjects to do outragoeus stuff. Not beyond the knuckle anyway.

The McKenna thing was in the 90's man. And if you got your attention focused You'll see I remarked on lots of stuff goig on around there with He Who Shall Not Be Named. Lets see..... yup just checked.

I wonder if we apply some NLP dogma here, "That has always been my experience from venues I hav done when other hypnotists have been mentioned." and say the map isn't the territory - that was written by a bloody bad mapist|! I would take that to mean that your comment about certain audiences in certain venues prefering an ott show says frig all about other hypnosis shows and a lot about the venues and audiences. Guess it's all about perspective ey?

PS - I know it's cartographer. I just prefer mapist okay!
Message: Posted by: HypnoDan (Feb 18, 2011 12:40PM)
Just wanted to quote this because Reg gave me great advice when I had to do a 15-20 minute gig as part of a local performance festival.

[quote]
On 2011-02-11 15:14, quicknotist wrote:
I'm sure the original poster will make his own mind up.
I'm not saying it can't be done in 10 minutes. I've already outlined to a few here (by PM) my approach for a 10 minute "bit" I did for Smirnoff some years ago. Seven or eight times the same day, for different audiences of sales reps as part of a 45 minute brand promotion.
BUT I had a specific purpose - to induce someone while still seated in the audience and make them unable to say "Bourbon" (Not hard, I know.)
The guy who introduced me, under my direction did a lot of the "safety" pre-talk for me (and built expectancy.)
I heard it was the most talked about presentation of the day but that was in the context of a trade show.
I'm just saying to North, my feeling is that what's possible in ten minutes of hypnosis (including time taken for people to make their way to the stage) would be unlikely to win a talent competition in front of a US audience and judges who have probably seen a lot of hypnosis shows.

Reg
[/quote]