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Topic: Single sense inductions...
Message: Posted by: LucidMovement (Mar 11, 2011 07:19PM)
First, since this is my first post, a very warm hello to all of you!

Having read a good many of the posts on this board it seemed like everyone was quite active in addition to being very knowledgeable so I thought I might post a topic that has had me confuzzled for some time.

Single sense inductions. Several years ago I ran across DB's Zombie game video on youtube and while I understood the principle and practice of traditional hypnosis at the time, this demonstration of it really rather puzzled me and still does for that matter. For those of you not familiar with the video, you can find it at the following link. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjRAcajFte0 Specifically from 2:30ish to 3:05ish.

I've researched it on several occasions over the years but I've yet to come up with an explanation that I am happy with and fully believe and more importantly, can apply. I'm not asking for an exact revelation as I don't really wish to expose the effect. I am more looking for discussion on the topic, web references, books etc on any type of single sense inductions using any of the senses. I rather like the idea of completely non-verbal inductions and can think of many wonderful effects utilizing such. The only thing that I have been able to find on the subject is a short bit on Ormond McGill's DVD utilizing, if memory serves, an audible Alpha or Theta frequency to attempt to get the brain to associate into that state. Not having tried that particular method I can't comment on its efficacy, but I'd be inclined to believe it to be slow working and rather unreliable. I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on the topic.

What information, if any, have any of you run across that sufficiently explains the workings of single sense inductions?

Message: Posted by: Shrubsole (Mar 11, 2011 07:55PM)
Can't view that video here in England - The irony that we are excluded from our own TV channels!

Welcome to the Café, by the way!
Message: Posted by: LucidMovement (Mar 11, 2011 08:42PM)
Thanks for the welcome Shrubsole! Sorry about the link, the region restrictions for videos has become rather annoying. Here is another one that, with any luck, will play. http://www.metacafe.com/watch/yt-2SYhYLt-Vgg/derren_brown_zombies_part_1_hq/

Failing that, it is in Series 1 of "Trick of the Mind" which is available in both the US and UK iTunes store for a reasonable rate and I suppose it may be available somewhere in the BBC video archives, but I've not checked.

If the video doesn't work and one doesn't own or isn't inclined to purchase Trick of the Mind, the basic effect is as follows. A man stands in front of a coin-op arcade game, and whilst playing it a series of timed flashes is queued by DB and the man subsequently begins to slump and after a few more flashes he becomes apparently catatonic. There is no indication that the person has been spoken to prior to the apparent catatonic state nor is DB using the game as a device to speak through, well... at least not in real-time. I suppose the possibility of a subliminal track should not be entirely excluded, but again, this isn't so much about this effect in particular as it is the methodology of this type of induction. The video is merely an efficient means of demonstrating the type of induction I am interested in digging up more information on. :)
Message: Posted by: bobser (Mar 12, 2011 01:08PM)
Hi Lucid, and welcome.

I wouldn't worry too much about any form of revelation of DB's work. The truth is that while many might be able to achieve similar results no one person outside 'Objective' know exactly what methods he uses.
However, one thing one/should be fairly obvious and that would be the use of re-induction of an extremely well tested subject (the hypnotee). And that probably says all and anything that you might need to know.
To be honest I'm not exactly sure what your definition of 'single sense' induction is. Since Hypnosis is created by asking the subject to concentrate on one single thought that is normally that of 'visualised' concentration.
Anyway, in closing, I'd recommend to put anything DB or any other televised performance seems to create aside in any quest you may have.
That's my advice and experience tells me that's what most others would recommend also. The truth is we've been down this road a few times now here in The Café.

Message: Posted by: LucidMovement (Mar 12, 2011 02:54PM)
Hi Bobser and thanks again for the welcome and the feedback, your posts in the past have been very interesting reads and it is quite obvious you are very knowledgeable on the subject and indeed were one of the people I was hoping would respond to this thread.

The re-induction of a extremely well tested subject is definitely a very plausible explanation. As far as your comments regarding DB's work, I do completely agree since not everything is what it seems or is purported to be since the goal is completely different, that being to entertain. It was primarily to more clearly illustrate what I was referring to in regards to a single sense induction. In this case the flashes of light. However, I can see where perhaps I could have been more clear.

By single sense induction, what I am referring to specifically is an induction in which only a single sense is used, as opposed to multiple senses. For instance, in a traditional induction, one may touch the subject, speak to the subject, and perhaps even utilize some method of interrupting the gaze of a subject to induce some form of hypnosis. Now, let us assume, for the sake of discussion, that we are working with someone who is blind. Here we have a case where we are down one sense, so any methods that rely on visual feedback are removed. Or perhaps we are working with a deaf person where instruction can only be given via cue cards or sign language. I know these are corner cases, but that was kind of the point. My interest is in the methodology and extents of hypnotic phenomenon. The primary question being, is it possible to induce someone who has not been to a hypnotist before, utilizing only one of their senses. Or perhaps, again for the sake of discussion, you wish to induct a group of deaf amputees watching a film. As ridiculous as the previous sentence is, and it was intended to be, the idea is the bit that is intriguing and is not an area of research I have seen anything from and that is what I am after because, at least in my mind, that would tell us volumes on the nature of hypnotic phenomenon and give us more tools to work with.

I'm not saying that any of this is particularly practical or even likely to come up in common use, but personally I find the idea intriguing and would love to see research, books or thoughts that explore some of it. Which was mostly the point of the post, to get discussion on possible avenues, even if purely theoretical, as well as books or research papers on the subject if any exist. :)
Message: Posted by: bobser (Mar 12, 2011 06:09PM)
Aggghhh I see!
You'll have to excuse me, I'm a little hung over from a very very late party. Your reasoning is actually excellent and I wasn't thinking.
I can tell you that I have a profoundly deaf client who 'goes' with eyes open as she lip reads me and is a good subject. I have also had 2 blind subjects who I have to say were excellent. I'd like to hear from others with perhaps more experience than myself with blind subjects but I have a hunch that their imagination and concentration is better than most.
On your DB query, for what it's worth I remember one particular DB subject (it might even have been the one you refer to)trying to cause much problems for him by claiming later that he remembered being hypnotised by Derren, and that Derren had no real powers other than this. I found it quite funny as I saw this 'exposure' as actually being a phenomenal advertisement with regard to DB's hypnotic prowess!
Message: Posted by: bobser (Mar 12, 2011 06:18PM)
I also wanted to say on this (and I do hope it makes sense) Just because someone says or believes something doesn't make it so.
By that I mean (stay with me on this) if we can assume that there IS such things as clairvoyance (clear seeing)and clairaudience (clear hearing),it does NOT follow that when a person says they SEE or HEAR that that's what is happening. What is normally taking place is: clairsentience(clear FEELING).
By that I mean that the subject FEELS that they see or hear.
This is far too difficult for me to explain in the written word (LOL) but in my experience psychicy stuff EXISTS and the above is simply true.
If so, it might follow that the subject 'goes' mainly by FEELING. FEELING that they hear, see, taste, smell etc.
Message: Posted by: LucidMovement (Mar 12, 2011 08:51PM)
Thanks for your points on your deaf and blind subjects, that is very interesting and I would be very interested in hearing more, specifically how the inductions in those situations differed from inductions with sighted and hearing subjects, the things you had to change etc, if anything. In giving it thought I suppose that really not much would have to change in the case of a blind subject since most of what we do relies on the ability to listen and internalize what is being heard. As for your DB anecdote, I have to agree with you there, that would be quite the ringing endorsement of his hypnotic prowess. From what I gather he is indeed quite adept with hypnosis and suggestion, though it is *** near impossible to tell since he says one thing and does another. I would love to see him produce some additional material for people with an interest in the matter, what he has published is rather sparse though I've not seen, nor read, everything he has released.

On your follow up post, it does make sense and I think I follow what you are saying, and it is in line with my own experience. Reality is only subjective up to a point and there are limitations in place that cannot be breached due to the neurological underpinnings of it all. I myself and not convinced of psychic phenomenon, but that is because I have no evidence in either direction. But I do subscribe to the principle that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. I think there is massive gaps in our present understanding of not only the world around us but the world inside our heads as well as our own capabilities and is, in part, what drew me to hypnosis in the first place. I think I first got the idea of getting into it, must have been 12-15 years ago now after reading a Heinlein short story in which the principle characters developed psychic abilities through the use of hypnosis and it led me to wondering what was actually achievable with enough effort. I personally believe that we have only scratched the surface of what we, as humans (assuming all of you are actually that), are capable of. There certainly is enough anecdotal evidence to suggest that modern science could be missing quite a bit. Unless of course what you are referring to is synethesia, which, now that you mention it, or didn't as the case may be, is something I really ought to look into for a hypnotic routine. I vaguely recall some research I read a while ago into inducing a synethesia analog in a person through hypnosis, but the memory is fuzzy so I could be wrong.

And thanks again for chiming in on this!