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Topic: Japan braces for N-reactor meltdown after tsunami
Message: Posted by: Bill Hilly (Mar 12, 2011 12:15AM)
– 1:00 a.m. EST

By JAY ALABASTER, Associated Press Jay Alabaster, Associated PressSENDAI, Japan – Japan launched a massive, military-led rescue operation Saturday after a giant quake and tsunami killed hundreds of people and turned the northeastern coast into a swampy wasteland as authorities braced for a possible meltdown at a nuclear reactor.

Prime Minister Naoto Kan said he is sending 50,000 troops for the rescue and recovery efforts following Friday's 8.9-magnitude quake that unleashed one of the greatest disasters Japan has witnessed — a 23-foot (7-meter) tsunami that washed far inland over fields, smashing towns, airports and highways in its way.

The official death toll stood at 413, while 784 people were missing and 1,128 injured. In addition, police said between 200 and 300 bodies were found along the coast in Sendai, the biggest city in the area near the quake's epicenter. An untold number of bodies were also believed to be lying in the rubble and debris. Rescue workers had yet to reach the hardest-hit areas.

Adding to the worries was the damage at the Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear power plant, where two reactors had lost cooling ability.

Because of the overheating, a meltdown was possible at one of the reactors, said Ryohei Shiomi, an official with Japan's nuclear safety commission.

But even if there was a meltdown, it wouldn't affect humans outside a six-mile (10-kilometer) radius, he said.

More than 215,000 people were living in 1,350 temporary shelters in five prefectures, or states, the national police agency said. Since the quake, more than 1 million households have not had water, mostly concentrated in northeast.

Kan said a total of 190 military planes and 25 ships have been sent to the area.

"Most of houses along the coastline were washed away, and fire broke out there," he said after inspecting the quake area in a helicopter. "I realized the extremely serious damage the tsunami caused."
Message: Posted by: Bill Hilly (Mar 12, 2011 12:16AM)
[quote]
But even if there was a meltdown, it wouldn't affect humans outside a six-mile (10-kilometer) radius, he said.
[/quote]

Hey Santa, does that sound right to you?
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Mar 12, 2011 12:27AM)
I've no clue, my father is the nuke guy. Of course if it releases a measurable about of radiation that is much much sexier than the potentially 1000 people killed in the earthquake.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hilly (Mar 12, 2011 12:39AM)
It just seems to me that a meltdown, and I don't know if there are "degrees of meltdown", could affect more area than that.
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Mar 12, 2011 12:52AM)
There are. Remember that a number of failures have to occur and that still does not mean a major or even minor release of radiation because the whole shebang is in a containment vessel. We are not talking open reactors here like Chernobal and the plant in Washington State in the Tri Cities. Completely different animal. The biggest problem, other than the press, with most melt down situations is the cost involved because it ruins the core and either they just contain it or they have to repair it. It just scares the crap out of people, the term radiation and nuke and all that. Radiation is all around us. I'm sure the press is hoping for a meltdown and what a place to have it, Japan, they'll call it the New Nagasaki or something.
Message: Posted by: tommy (Mar 12, 2011 01:13AM)
How far it goes depends how on far the wind blows it.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hilly (Mar 12, 2011 01:14AM)
Santa,

I'm with ya on the problem of the press. I'm going to stop posting those articles and do a little reading on how those things are built.

One of articles did describe the containment structures. I wish I could find it again. I would post that one. It described the Japanese plants as far safer than anywhere else. And I read a little about Chernobyl. It sounded almost like the rods where in a bucket in a backyard.

As I said earlier, I just have faith that good people are doing there best. And agree with you that the dead and hurt victims of the quake and tsunami should not be neglected in all this.

I appreciate your input. Thanks.
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (Mar 12, 2011 10:52AM)
Apparently the radiation after the explosion, is actually going down.
Message: Posted by: stoneunhinged (Mar 12, 2011 11:03AM)
Maybe, Ed. But if there's a meltdown the radiation will go back up again. Big time.
Message: Posted by: McAllisterMagic (Mar 12, 2011 11:14AM)
Cheesus Crust !
Message: Posted by: landmark (Mar 12, 2011 02:07PM)
And that's why no private US insurance company will touch the regular insuring of a nuke plant with a 10-foot pole.
But Congress just gave away 8 billion to the nuke industry. Meanwhile, here in NYC, mayor Bloomberg just closed 105 senior centers. I was at a rally at City Hall to save them, and a vet in a wheelchair who came with several others from his center to protest asked me, "Why do they destroy anything that works? These programs work and they cut funding, but then they spend all this money on stuff that they have no idea if it will work."
Total cost for 105 senior centers: 25 [i]million[/i]. Pocket change.
Priorities are very twisted.
Message: Posted by: landmark (Mar 12, 2011 02:30PM)
Radiation is evidently leaking from the plant to the outside environment:

"An explosion severely damaged the main building of the nuclear plant on Saturday in the wake of the earthquake, causing radiation to leak from the facility, 240 km (150 miles) north of Tokyo. The government insisted radiation levels were low, saying the blast had not affected the reactor core container.

Still, 90,000 people had been evacuated from areas near the plant while authorities prepared to distribute iodine to people in the vicinity to protect them from radioactive exposure."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/12/us-japan-quake-idUSTRE72A0SS20110312
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Mar 12, 2011 02:37PM)
On my old ship we had radiation and we had these lil' indicator thingies we wore. The guys who were around it a lot had a yearly amount they could be subjected to 'unless approved by the commanding officer' so every time they would reach that max level they would just approve more!

When my dad was in Japan his guys had those thingies as well and the divers maxed out (the divers that do welding) and it was November I so they were, clearly, a month away from another year starting. The company in Japan wanted them to just take the month off and get back to work with a new thingie. My dad sent them all back to the states and told the big bosses that a year was 12 months not Jan to December and he wouldn't subject them to more radiation until the period of time passed that was in the safety regs. Ticked off the bosses but they couldn't do anything and the workers loved my dad for it. To be honest with you thankfully my father has been very healthy and is around 80 now and none of his coworkers ever had problems associated with radiation. They are also either elderly or died of other things such as heart issues or just age.
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (Mar 13, 2011 05:58AM)
[quote]
On 2011-03-12 12:03, stoneunhinged wrote:
Maybe, Ed. But if there's a meltdown the radiation will go back up again. Big time.
[/quote]

This is true. And appears to be happening now. I was just hoping for SOMETHING positive to come out of this mess.
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Mar 13, 2011 04:58PM)
They release steam that has measurable radioactive levels, that is how it works.
Message: Posted by: tommy (Mar 13, 2011 08:40PM)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtYq70-71RI
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Mar 13, 2011 09:10PM)
Gotta love agendas. I'm waiting for people to claim that no one was killed by the earthquake or tsunami but they were intentionally caused by the US to cover the nuc disaster to explain the 10,000 lives lost. Nice...major loss of life and this limey @#@% goes to some greenie in Ohio because that is the story.
Message: Posted by: landmark (Mar 13, 2011 10:00PM)
It's bad Santa. Ask your Dad. Seawater. That kills the plant completely--you only do that if you're desperate.
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Mar 13, 2011 10:12PM)
The meltdown can kill it, the salt water is a corrosive. With all the horror going on I get a feeling some people WANT there to be a massive amount of deaths from radiation. Sickos. Landmark, they've shut down units before opening them because welds are bad, they have entire plants that have never really come to full operation. It is bad of course but the sick part are those wanting it to be worse.
Message: Posted by: tommy (Mar 13, 2011 10:20PM)
Well she did try to find an expert in the field but all the odd carriers were busy.
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Mar 13, 2011 10:25PM)
In the field of green? The subject is a nuc power plant, I can get you the name and phone number of an English engineer if you like.
Message: Posted by: tommy (Mar 14, 2011 12:14AM)
According to newspapers here, Masashi Goto, a former nuclear power plant designer, told a press conference in Tokyo that the consequences of a serious meltdown "would be tremendous", adding that he believed such a scenario was highly likely.

The Japanese government yesterday admitted another explosion at Fukushima-Daiichi - this time at Reactor 3 - was a possibility but tried to play down that likelihood. If nuclear reactors overheat, the containers that house the core could melt, or explode, sending enormous quantities of radioactive material into the atmosphere.

Mr Goto said the reactors at Fukushima-Daiichi were suffering pressure build-ups way beyond that for which they were designed, creating a severe risk of a second explosion.

The first explosion occurred in the early hours of Saturday morning, UK time, destroying a building that housed a nuclear reactor.

The Japanese authorities, who have come under attack for failing to provide enough information to the public, yesterday confirmed there had been a fuel melt in one of the reactors at the troubled plant.

It has emerged that the third reactor to suffer a failure in its cooling mechanism contained the controversial Mox fuel, which is in part made of plutonium and is thought to be more dangerous in the event of a serious meltdown.

Radiation of up to 700 times the normal level has been found at the Onagawa power plant north of Fukushima - although the government insisted that it was fallout from the radiation leak at Fukushima, rather than a separate incident at Onagawa, which was engulfed by a 21-foot wave when the tsunami hit the area on Friday.

"First I was worried about the quake," said Kenji Koshiba, a construction worker who lives near the Fukushima plant. "Now I'm worried about radiation."

He spoke at an emergency centre in Koriyama town located near the site.

Which is more or less what the American reporter was reporting.
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Mar 14, 2011 12:21AM)
Yes a full meltdown would be a very bad thing and they are taking steps, heroic steps since you consider the situation and the fact those workers have families and friends in a disaster area, to keep that from happening. I glad they got the expert opinion as well from Kenji, a construction worker, I know when my wife had heart surgery I looked for a construction worker to get his input, so valuable it is. Tommy, I hope your dream of full melt down does not come to pass and that the dissappointment should thousands not die from radiation be handled by the enviro crowd with a big more class than their desire for a meltdown.

Do you realize that the area was hit by a huge, I mean massive by any measure, quake followed by tsunamis? Unbelievable how some are forgetting that.
Message: Posted by: balducci (Mar 14, 2011 12:37AM)
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/14/world/asia/14plume.html?_r=4

"The Pentagon was expected to announce that the aircraft carrier Ronald Reagan, which is sailing in the Pacific, passed through a radioactive cloud from stricken nuclear reactors in Japan, causing crew members on deck to receive a month’s worth of radiation in about an hour, government officials said Sunday. "
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Mar 14, 2011 12:56AM)
So what? Let me guess....y'all want a radiation free world? How you going to destroy the sun? The problem is radiation is a word that inspires fear and it is used as such. Ewwww....a radioactive cloud, scary. What about the pollution and chemicals pumped into the air by China which we go through every day because the Earth rotates? No one seems to care about that because the poor Chinese are exempt from being polluters correct?

Tell me the truth, do you have a picture in your mind of deck hands on the Reagan with melting skin and gasping for air as their eyes explode? Do you think that they are all going to have children with four heads now?

I said it before and I'll say it again, some of you want a radiation poisoning to occur, you want death from radiation, you want to have people getting cancer from it, because some people are sick minded and don't really care about other people.
Message: Posted by: balducci (Mar 14, 2011 01:42AM)
You're really going a little batty this evening, Santa. Where do you get this nonsense about Tommy and I wishing for a radiation poisoning that you are spouting? When you act like you are this evening, I can see why you have problems with certain mods. Maybe that sounds a little harsh, but when you even suggest my imagining "deck hands on the Reagan with melting skin and gasping for air as their eyes explode" I don't see the point in being polite.

As a Navy guy, I simply thought you would find that story about the aircraft carrier Ronald Reagan of some interest. I'm sorry for even bothering with my earlier post this evening.
Message: Posted by: rowdymagi5 (Mar 14, 2011 09:20AM)
[quote]
On 2011-03-14 01:21, MagicSanta wrote:
Yes a full meltdown would be a very bad thing and they are taking steps, heroic steps since you consider the situation and the fact those workers have families and friends in a disaster area, to keep that from happening. I glad they got the expert opinion as well from Kenji, a construction worker, I know when my wife had heart surgery I looked for a construction worker to get his input, so valuable it is. Tommy, I hope your dream of full melt down does not come to pass and that the dissappointment should thousands not die from radiation be handled by the enviro crowd with a big more class than their desire for a meltdown.

Do you realize that the area was hit by a huge, I mean massive by any measure, quake followed by tsunamis? Unbelievable how some are forgetting that.


The construction worker comment is the funniest thing I have read in a long time! Thanks for that!
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (Mar 15, 2011 04:53AM)
[quote]
On 2011-03-13 22:10, MagicSanta wrote:
Gotta love agendas. I'm waiting for people to claim that no one was killed by the earthquake or tsunami but they were intentionally caused by the US to cover the nuc disaster to explain the 10,000 lives lost. Nice...major loss of life and this limey @#@% goes to some greenie in Ohio because that is the story.
[/quote]

No. The posts I'm reading in alt.conspiracy claim the quake AND the tsunami were caused by the HAARP project.
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Mar 15, 2011 12:48PM)
Ohhh...never hoid of 'em.
Message: Posted by: critter (Mar 15, 2011 01:14PM)
The LARP project? So it was a bunch of live action role players? You know, that actually does make a lot more sense than some other conspiracy theories out there...
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (Mar 16, 2011 09:45AM)
Yeah, you hit the ground enough times with those wooden swords, you'd be surprised what can happen!
Message: Posted by: critter (Mar 16, 2011 10:44AM)
I'm thinking one of them level 12 Earth Mage's could just throw a beanbag and yell "Earthquake!"

(Disclaimer-In case anybody doesn't know by now, humor is how I process tragedy.)
Message: Posted by: landmark (Mar 16, 2011 02:37PM)
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/16/world/asia/16workers.html

Last Defense at Troubled Reactors: 50 Japanese Workers
By KEITH BRADSHER and HIROKO TABUCHI
Published: March 15, 2011


"A small crew of technicians, braving radiation and fire, became the only people remaining at the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station on Tuesday — and perhaps Japan’s last chance of preventing a broader nuclear catastrophe...

The reactor’s operator, Tokyo Electric Power Company, said it had been able to double the number of people at the plant to 100 as a result of falling radiation levels, but that was before the sudden release of radioactive vapor. It was not immediately clear how many of the workers and soldiers at the plant might have evacuated after that.

Those remaining are being asked to make escalating — and perhaps existential — sacrifices that so far are being only implicitly acknowledged: Japan’s Health Ministry said Tuesday it was raising the legal limit on the amount of radiation to which each worker could be exposed, to 250 millisieverts from 100 millisieverts, five times the maximum exposure permitted for American nuclear plant workers. "

Really fascinating article.
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Mar 16, 2011 03:50PM)
Yeah, sad situation, they can't get the equipment then need or supplies. The photos of the disaster area is just amazing in how bad it is. Kind of makes that ocean side housing seem to be less valuable.
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (Mar 17, 2011 02:13PM)
[quote]
On 2011-03-16 11:44, critter wrote:
I'm thinking one of them level 12 Earth Mage's could just throw a beanbag and yell "Earthquake!"

(Disclaimer-In case anybody doesn't know by now, humor is how I process tragedy.)
[/quote]

It was better than some of the other attempts at humor over this situation I've been hearing.
(One such attempt just got Gilbert Gottfried fired from his job as the Aflack duck!)
Message: Posted by: critter (Mar 17, 2011 05:17PM)
People should expect that sort of thing from Gilbert. Especially after his handling of 9/11.