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Topic: Anyone else have this experience?
Message: Posted by: satellite23 (Mar 22, 2011 06:18PM)
It was so funny today, picture it:

My fiend found an old deck of cards and showed me a trcik, not knowing that I am a magician. He asked me if I knew how he did it, I said yes. He didn't believe me, so I showed him. Then, I told him about my "magical" abilities. His face just lit up and he wanted to see more.

Then, one of my other friends, again not knowing that I was a magician, used me as a stooge to impress other people with a card trick. We were doing the trick for someone, and my friend and the person started talking about magicians, and I couldn't pass up the opprtunity to perform for them. My friend kept asking me for the secret (of course I didn't tell him). It's funny to keep him guessing, I still haven't told him about my magician side. Maybe I'll tell him tomorrow.

Anyways, how funny is it when laymen perform a trick for you when they don't know about your hobby/occupation? It's pretty funny, trust me. But I go along with it, because I know how awesome it feels to be in the spotlight.
Message: Posted by: Father Photius (Mar 22, 2011 08:33PM)
Happened many times. Can't tell you how many zillion times I've seen the old 21 card trick.
Message: Posted by: 3M (Mar 23, 2011 03:05AM)
I think that it's something many magicians have lost sight of these days Father Photius.
Message: Posted by: sleightlysilas (Mar 23, 2011 05:19AM)
One of the most inspiring moments in my life came about like this as well. This kid from India came up to me and did a routine with a Svengali deck. He actually told me a story about mirages and what not.

His handling was terrible, but I could see how genuine he was, how his eyes would light up when the card was "magically everywhere". This was a 7 or 8 year old or something, when he finished he said "I hope my magic has made you happy." then he left.

Made me relive that childlike passion for magic I had when I was younger.
Message: Posted by: David Thiel (Mar 23, 2011 07:59AM)
[quote]
On 2011-03-23 06:19, sleightlysilas wrote:
One of the most inspiring moments in my life came about like this as well. This kid from India came up to me and did a routine with a Svengali deck. He actually told me a story about mirages and what not.

His handling was terrible, but I could see how genuine he was, how his eyes would light up when the card was "magically everywhere". This was a 7 or 8 year old or something, when he finished he said "I hope my magic has made you happy." then he left.

Made me relive that childlike passion for magic I had when I was younger.
[/quote]

Wonderful story! Made me smile.

Thank you.

David
Message: Posted by: MagicB1S (Mar 23, 2011 08:02AM)
I have to say, I LOVE Magic, Love to perform and love to watch, So if someone is willing to show me some Magic I want to see. It doesn't matter if I know the effect or not. I am there to be amazed by there performance. and there passion for what they do. Once in a great while I will tell them I am a Magician but most of the time I let them have the spot light, I will get my chance another day.
Message: Posted by: jakubr (Mar 23, 2011 08:07AM)
I think this doesn't happen often, once people know you do magic. Quiet often though, people want to perform something knowing that I do magic. But there are 2-3 tricks they perform all the time, so it sometimes really gets boring. It's a good opportunity though, to recruit new people for magic club.
Message: Posted by: twm (Mar 23, 2011 08:46AM)
[quote]
On 2011-03-22 21:33, Father Photius wrote:
Happened many times. Can't tell you how many zillion times I've seen the old 21 card trick.
[/quote]

How did you react each time? Did you try to be amazed? Or did the boredom show?
Message: Posted by: DWRackley (Mar 23, 2011 09:18AM)
Probably shouldn’t, but a lot depends on my mood. If I’m very tired, in my mind I’m thinking “humor them” with polite interest. Normally though, like MagicB1S said, I love it and I want to see it, no matter what level of “skill” it’s performed with. Almost never will I “do one”; it’s their turn.
Message: Posted by: Cyberqat (Mar 23, 2011 02:26PM)
Yup. Be generous with the spotlight. that's performer Karma!
Message: Posted by: fisherboy (Mar 23, 2011 04:15PM)
[quote]
On 2011-03-22 19:18, satellite23 wrote:
It was so funny today, picture it:

My fiend found an old deck of cards and showed me a trcik, not knowing that I am a magician. He asked me if I knew how he did it, I said yes. He didn't believe me, so I showed him. Then, I told him about my "magical" abilities. His face just lit up and he wanted to see more.

Then, one of my other friends, again not knowing that I was a magician, used me as a stooge to impress other people with a card trick. We were doing the trick for someone, and my friend and the person started talking about magicians, and I couldn't pass up the opprtunity to perform for them. My friend kept asking me for the secret (of course I didn't tell him). It's funny to keep him guessing, I still haven't told him about my magician side. Maybe I'll tell him tomorrow.

Anyways, how funny is it when laymen perform a trick for you when they don't know about your hobby/occupation? It's pretty funny, trust me. But I go along with it, because I know how awesome it feels to be in the spotlight.
[/quote]

As 3M say many magicians overlook situations like these and saddly dismiss them as if they are above laymans magic. Your approach and attitude to magic in this situation is great and you will also learn a lot from these situations. Often when "laypeople" do any task that people who see them selves as an hobbyist or professional do they complete the task without the hangups we have. I suppose the best way to describe it is innocence.

Keep watching and keep enjoying your magic, it just gets better and better
Message: Posted by: satellite23 (Mar 23, 2011 07:34PM)
Thanks for the words of encouragement fisherboy!
Message: Posted by: ralphs007 (Mar 23, 2011 11:10PM)
Hi
I was just thinking about this the other day. Except what if they blew me away and I had no clue how they did it ?
Message: Posted by: sleightlysilas (Mar 24, 2011 12:33AM)
I think a lot of us are guilty of losing the "spark". Especially those who make a living out of it.

Whenever pros (by definition us who use magic to pay bills, not necessarily pro meaning good at it, because I wouldn't dare clasify myself under that) see magic, couple of first thoughts would be "that's hardly practical" "can't do that walk around" "hard to transition from that" "audience can't connect with that patter" that sort of thing.

It's actually laymen and most hobbyists who remind me that "hey, this magic stuff is cool and I love doing it."

Despite having to scrape the bottom of the barrel on lean seasons, I'd say were the lucky few who can work for something as fun and awesome as this art.
Message: Posted by: sleightlysilas (Mar 24, 2011 12:39AM)
Oh and for times I'm genuinely fooled by a routine that I believe a lay audience would appreciate, two words...

"How much?"
Message: Posted by: djurmann (Mar 24, 2011 07:16AM)
People know I do magic, but quite often I will ask them if they know tricks and hand them the cards. Why not? Of course this can backfire, after my colleague did a very nice presentation of the old 21 trick he then explained the magician's force to a group of about 6 bystanders. Not good.
Message: Posted by: jerome96114 (Mar 24, 2011 07:45AM)
Reminds me a bit on that Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpL7YKraoyI

:)
Message: Posted by: Cyberqat (Mar 24, 2011 11:11AM)
[quote]
On 2011-03-24 00:10, ralphs007 wrote:
Hi
I was just thinking about this the other day. Except what if they blew me away and I had no clue how they did it ?
[/quote]

Then tell them, and congratulate them on a job well done.

As I said, be generous with the spotlight. It doesn't always have to be on you and people are more likely to let you take it when you need it if you are generous with it when you don't.
Message: Posted by: ralphs007 (Mar 24, 2011 01:44PM)
[quote]
On 2011-03-24 12:11, Cyberqat wrote:
[quote]
On 2011-03-24 00:10, ralphs007 wrote:
Hi
I was just thinking about this the other day. Except what if they blew me away and I had no clue how they did it ?
[/quote]

Then tell them, and congratulate them on a job well done.

As I said, be generous with the spotlight. It doesn't always have to be on you and people are more likely to let you take it when you need it if you are generous with it when you don't.
[/quote]
Congratulating them goes without saying. I'm not a glory hound! I'm just a hobbyist who was wondering how I'd go about learning the effect they just showed me. I'm sure I'd have to exchange one of my effects with them.
I'd love to be shown some magic from friends and other people I worked with. It just never really happens.
Message: Posted by: fisherboy (Mar 24, 2011 04:08PM)
[quote]
On 2011-03-24 01:33, sleightlysilas wrote:
I think a lot of us are guilty of losing the "spark". Especially those who make a living out of it.

Whenever pros (by definition us who use magic to pay bills, not necessarily pro meaning good at it, because I wouldn't dare clasify myself under that) see magic, couple of first thoughts would be "that's hardly practical" "can't do that walk around" "hard to transition from that" "audience can't connect with that patter" that sort of thing.

It's actually laymen and most hobbyists who remind me that "hey, this magic stuff is cool and I love doing it."

Despite having to scrape the bottom of the barrel on lean seasons, I'd say were the lucky few who can work for something as fun and awesome as this art.
[/quote]

You are are right slightlysilas, it is grounding for us, but even if those thoughts are going through your head you are still thinking about performance and that is a good thing, you are thinking about performance and that will also stop you getting into a rut.

The last part of you post is so true. We are very lucky to be able to do this professionally.
Message: Posted by: djurmann (Mar 24, 2011 04:50PM)
[quote]
On 2011-03-24 08:45, jerome96114 wrote:
Reminds me a bit on that Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpL7YKraoyI

:)
[/quote]

I LOVED this :0) I am still smiling. thank you for sharing.

D
Message: Posted by: satellite23 (Mar 24, 2011 04:50PM)
[quote]
On 2011-03-24 01:33, sleightlysilas wrote:
I think a lot of us are guilty of losing the "spark". Especially those who make a living out of it.

Whenever pros (by definition us who use magic to pay bills, not necessarily pro meaning good at it, because I wouldn't dare clasify myself under that) see magic, couple of first thoughts would be "that's hardly practical" "can't do that walk around" "hard to transition from that" "audience can't connect with that patter" that sort of thing.

It's actually laymen and most hobbyists who remind me that "hey, this magic stuff is cool and I love doing it."

Despite having to scrape the bottom of the barrel on lean seasons, I'd say were the lucky few who can work for something as fun and awesome as this art.
[/quote]

Right. Magic is super-fun and it should always stay that way. No matter if you're just beginning or if you're David Copperfield. It should always stay fun. And that is why I AM a magician. I love it, and I have fun doing it.
Message: Posted by: diehards2080 (Mar 24, 2011 06:04PM)
People always want to show me card tricks after a friendly game of cards. I always encourage them, I play laymen even though I might know how the trick is done or think to know how its done. I even asked them "How the Hell you did that" question. I was once there in those shoes as most of us where we wanted to show what we learned and amaze others.

Its a great thing to see when others are showing a passion for magic or just a good trick they learned to show friends. More so for me when a child is showing that interest in it.
Message: Posted by: NexusMagicShop (Mar 24, 2011 08:13PM)
Many of these story's I share in similar personal memory's. Whenever, I am blessed to witness someone else perform I get a kick out of being the most enthusiastic spectator. It seems to help elevate the experience for all. And for me it's the best compliment you can pay to the art.
Message: Posted by: Cyberqat (Mar 25, 2011 09:48AM)
[quote]
On 2011-03-24 14:44, ralphs007 wrote:
[quote]
On 2011-03-24 12:11, Cyberqat wrote:
[quote]
On 2011-03-24 00:10, ralphs007 wrote:
Hi
I was just thinking about this the other day. Except what if they blew me away and I had no clue how they did it ?
[/quote]

Then tell them, and congratulate them on a job well done.

As I said, be generous with the spotlight. It doesn't always have to be on you and people are more likely to let you take it when you need it if you are generous with it when you don't.
[/quote]
Congratulating them goes without saying. I'm not a glory hound! I'm just a hobbyist who was wondering how I'd go about learning the effect they just showed me. I'm sure I'd have to exchange one of my effects with them.
I'd love to be shown some magic from friends and other people I worked with. It just never really happens.
[/quote]

Oh yeah, if you want to learn it then ask. Bu then again, I'm much less of a bug about "the secret" then soem others around here. I don't tell laymen because, in the end, they really do have more fun if they don't know-- whether they realize that or not. But among fellow magicians, I actually enjoy sharing clever props and methods and see nothing wrong with it, frankly. If your product is so lame that there is ONLY value in its "secret" then IMHo you shouldn't be selling it. At bear minimum, your teaching should be strong enough to warrant its purchase.

In general I think magicians can cross the line to being fetishists when it comes to "secrets" and it isn't healthy. We are (or should be) far more then just people who "know something you don't".

If you are concerned about the other person's serious ness, then make it a one for one teaching trade.
Message: Posted by: ralphs007 (Mar 25, 2011 11:06AM)
Hi Cyberqat
It would have to be one hell of an effect for me to swap secrets! I won't even tell my Wife how anything is done! I remember when she found my TT with a red silk stuffed in it. It fell out of my pocket. It still bugs me to this day that the secret was lost. What really bothers me is the mystery of that effect is gone for her. Even though it's an old and over exposed trick,it still gets great reactions from those seeing it for the first time.
I still savor the fact that my older brother still ask me how I did an effect over 40 years ago.
Message: Posted by: DWRackley (Mar 25, 2011 01:11PM)
CQ and I have not agreed completely in the past, and I think I understand a little better now where he’s coming from. Yes, around “the guys” we will sometimes share or swap favorite moves or ideas. It’s the “laymen” who need to be kept guessing.

My wife knows most of my stuff, because [i]she’s figured it out[/i] on her own! (She’s a doctor, and comes from a family of Mensans; she never joined, but has the highest IQ of them all. Hmmm…)

There are a few things she still doesn’t get, and I do enjoy having my “secrets”. I think it helps me get better, learning how to keep her from “back-tracking”.

I think most people enjoy having a secret (a harmless one, mind you!) I used a confederate in a recent show. Her boyfriend was sitting right next to her and had no idea. I could tell from the gleam in her eyes that she REALLY enjoyed that, and will keep my secret forever!
Message: Posted by: Cyberqat (Mar 25, 2011 01:22PM)
[quote]
On 2011-03-25 14:11, DWRackley wrote:
CQ and I have not agreed completely in the past, and I think I understand a little better now where he’s coming from. Yes, around “the guys” we will sometimes share or swap favorite moves or ideas. It’s the “laymen” who need to be kept guessing.

My wife knows most of my stuff, because [i]she’s figured it out[/i] on her own! (She’s a doctor, and comes from a family of Mensans; she never joined, but has the highest IQ of them all. Hmmm…)
[/quote]

That's probably why she never joined. :P

I was never a big fan of MENSA. IMHO They make too much of a deal about traditional and academic problem solving and fail to credit many other forms of intelligence.
The "wrong" answer, as I discovered studying for my SATs, is far often the more creative and deeper reasoned one.

I've threatened a few times to become a card carrying member of DENSA for that reason.

[quote]
I think most people enjoy having a secret (a harmless one, mind you!) I used a confederate in a recent show. Her boyfriend was sitting right next to her and had no idea.
I could tell from the gleam in her eyes that she REALLY enjoyed that, and will keep my secret forever!
[/quote]

Sure. I was picked to shill once at a magic show and my wife really enjoyed being "in the know".

But when "I know something you don't" becomes the raison detre for knowing it, and/or you need OTHERS to know you know something they don't, then, IMHO, its a sign of a glaring character flaw. (Usually over-compensated inferiority feelings.)
Message: Posted by: DWRackley (Mar 25, 2011 01:51PM)
[quote]
On 2011-03-25 14:22, Cyberqat wrote:
That's probably why she never joined. :P
[/quote]
We’ve joked about that in the past. Probably true! I was a member for a couple years back in the 80s. It was fun for a while, but found no real depth. Got bored.
[quote]
I was never a big fan of MENSA. IMHO They make too much of a deal about traditional and academic problem solving and fail to credit many other forms of intelligence.
[/quote]
There are some forms of intelligence that simply can’t be measured with the understanding and technology we have now. Those “other” intelligences are what usually helps us to succeed in life, and probably explains why there are so many “under-employed” Mensans.
[quote]
The "wrong" answer, as I discovered studying for my SATs, is far often the more creative and deeper reasoned one.
[/quote]
My personal pet hatred was the so-called “Inductive Reasoning” tests. I don’t have a strong enough vocabulary to properly express my [i][b]loathing[/b][/i] for those things! There is ALWAYS more than one “right” answer, and I usually disagreed with the test-maker over which was the correct one.

Back to topic, I have on occasion given some constructive advice when I see someone who really wants to do a good job in their performance. Sometimes it’s received, other times it’s not appreciated. That too, tells me something about where they are in regard to learning magic.
Message: Posted by: Cyberqat (Mar 25, 2011 02:27PM)
DWR 100% agreed on those tests.

I was a national merit scholar, but only because I learned to "dumb down" my answers by taking practice tests.

When they say they want "the best answer" they really mean "the most obvious one."
Message: Posted by: satellite23 (Mar 25, 2011 05:27PM)
There is a saying, I forget who said it, but:

The correct answer is usually the most obvious one.
Message: Posted by: Erwin (Mar 25, 2011 07:46PM)
I get the impression that the whole point of being a member of MENSA is so that you can say you are a member of MENSA.
Message: Posted by: ralphs007 (Mar 25, 2011 10:17PM)
[quote]
On 2011-03-25 20:46, Erwin wrote:
I get the impression that the whole point of being a member of MENSA is so that you can say you are a member of MENSA.
[/quote]
"I'd never be a member of any club that would have me as a member"
Groucho Marx
Message: Posted by: DWRackley (Mar 26, 2011 12:45AM)
[quote]
On 2011-03-25 18:27, satellite23 wrote:
There is a saying, I forget who said it, but:

The correct answer is usually the most obvious one.
[/quote]

Sounds pretty much like what "Occam's Razor" has become.
Message: Posted by: satellite23 (Mar 26, 2011 07:12AM)
[quote]
On 2011-03-26 01:45, DWRackley wrote:
Sounds pretty much like what "Occam's Razor" has become.
[/quote]

Yeah, that's it. I just didn't say it perfect.
Message: Posted by: P.Synenberg (Mar 26, 2011 09:08AM)
I'm really big into customer service and I like to speak to every person who walks by me in the store. The other night I was at work in the deli and a customer walked by and I gave the ol' "Good evenin' how are ya?" and it was an older man and he turned to me and said "I'm glad you're here!"

(I've never seen this man in my life)

He walked over to my glass case and pulled out a chain like a dogtag chain and a big ring, perhaps 3 inches in diameter. He began to perform the effect where you drop the ring with the chain through it and it ties itself on there.

After 3 or 4 minutes when he finished, I asked how long he had been doing magic and he insisted he bought these things at Lowe's and he was a truck driver yadda yadda yadda....

So I came to the conclusion that either he is just making up things as we go, or he was sincerely telling the truth and someone taught him a trick of physics that requires no magic skill or knowledge. I began to explain to him that have wanted to be a magician all of my life but nobody would ever teach me and I could only learn hands on.

I pulled a shoestring from my pocket and asked if I could borrow his ring as I did Johnny Ace Palmer's routine where the ring jumps on and off of the string. At the end I laid the shoestring on the counter and FT'd the ring from my right to left hand and picked up the string and placed it over my right shoulder, and when I revealed that it had vanished from my left hand he was astonished. When I pulled the shoestring over my shoulder and the ring was attached to it his face was priceless!
Message: Posted by: DWRackley (Mar 26, 2011 01:14PM)
What a great story!
Good work and Welcome to the Café!
Message: Posted by: satellite23 (Mar 26, 2011 03:11PM)
Wow, that is quite a story!
Message: Posted by: NexusMagicShop (Mar 27, 2011 10:14PM)
That is s great story, and those are the priceless moments that live with you. We are all blessed to have such an inspirational outlet and tool to bring a bit of joy to others! :o)
Message: Posted by: DWRackley (Mar 28, 2011 10:33AM)
[quote]
On 2011-03-27 23:14, NexusMagicShop wrote:
That is s great story, and those are the priceless moments that live with you. We are all blessed to have such an inspirational outlet and tool to bring a bit of joy to others! :o)
[/quote]

Darn it! Can't find the "LIKE" button!
Message: Posted by: Cyberqat (Mar 29, 2011 10:47AM)
[quote]
On 2011-03-25 14:51, DWRackley wrote:

Back to topic, I have on occasion given some constructive advice when I see someone who really wants to do a good job in their performance. Sometimes it’s received, other times it’s not appreciated. That too, tells me something about where they are in regard to learning magic.
[/quote]

The truly wise man or woman knows how much she or he as yet to learn.

Or as we used to say in college...

Freshmen know nothing
Sophomores think they know something
Juniors really do know something
Seniors think they know everything.

I have been told that Sophomore in greek literally means "wise fool"
Message: Posted by: satellite23 (Mar 29, 2011 04:11PM)
[quote]
On 2011-03-29 11:47, Cyberqat wrote:
I have been told that Sophomore in greek literally means "wise fool"
[/quote]
It does. And, if I'm not mistaken, the same thing in our language (at least one definition.)
Message: Posted by: DWRackley (Mar 30, 2011 01:36PM)
Yes, and also interesting is that one of the words defined as “not practical or directly useful” and “lacking in worldliness, common sense, or practicality” happens to be “academic”.

(I'm a home-schooler. That just tickles me!)

Ok, I’ll go back and sit in the corner now…
Message: Posted by: satellite23 (Mar 30, 2011 03:09PM)
No, come up and sit in the middle of the room! That was interesting; I've never heard that before.