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Topic: Joey's Video Vault
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (Apr 9, 2011 10:47AM)
Hey guys,
The second deal thread became a little bit off topic
so I decided to make a own thread where I can post all of my videos
Feedback and critique is appreciated :)

#1
The first clip is a drill that I saw in a video by 900nm and I immediatly started to use it
The second clip is a stack for poker
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jgx2_2UcFJc


regards
Joey
Message: Posted by: MickeyPainless (Apr 9, 2011 10:55AM)
Good stuff Joey! Pretty fancy video work as well! ;)

MMc
Message: Posted by: MickeyPainless (Apr 10, 2011 02:00AM)
BTW, my comment about "fancy video work" was in NO way implying that I think your work is edited!

MMc
Message: Posted by: cinahcem (Apr 10, 2011 04:11AM)
Good work. But curiosity compels me to ask. What are you purposes of mastering these gambling sleights. Maybe, it is asking to much, however I am just interested in the motive to master these moves.
Message: Posted by: Tony45 (Apr 10, 2011 05:53AM)
Nice work Joe, I enjoyed watching it.
Message: Posted by: Tony45 (Apr 11, 2011 04:43AM)
[quote]
On 2011-04-10 05:11, cinahcem wrote:
Good work. But curiosity compels me to ask. What are you purposes of mastering these gambling sleights. Maybe, it is asking to much, however I am just interested in the motive to master these moves.
[/quote]

Well speaking for myself, I would think the main reason to master these moves is so you can post a vid on here and have half the guys say it wouldnt work in a game and the other half to tell you it looked good enough to pass in a game. Then they can take turns sniping at each other for 5-6 pages or several days, or which ever comes first. The main reason though is to get a good beef going. Is there any way we can unblock the cuss words so it can really have an authentic feel to it ?
You have to excuse me now, I have to go look for my fake car keys that I left in the last place I had to leave via the bathroom window. :)
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (Apr 11, 2011 01:54PM)
[quote]however I am just interested in the motive to master these moves. [/quote]

for riffle stacking my motiavtion is this video:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=121502425478251013#

ever since I saw that video, I wanted my riffle stacks to look like that ;)
Message: Posted by: CardsExpert (Apr 11, 2011 04:22PM)
Nice work Joey
Message: Posted by: AMcD (Apr 11, 2011 04:26PM)
Me, I don't. Especially about the cut.
Message: Posted by: The Dowser (Apr 11, 2011 09:05PM)
I think by the time he got around to the cut he just got really tired of being awesome... and said "f*<K it".
Message: Posted by: AMcD (Apr 11, 2011 10:07PM)
Hehe. Nice one Dowser.
Message: Posted by: Mr. Z (Apr 11, 2011 10:51PM)
[quote]
On 2011-04-11 22:05, The Dowser wrote:
I think by the time he got around to the cut he just got really tired of being awesome... and said "f*<K it".
[/quote]

Heavy lies the crown...

Hey you try wearing a crown while holding a silver spoon all day. Not easy.
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (Apr 12, 2011 09:49AM)
New Video

First clip is the same stack as in the first video
second clip is just a simple top slug control

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16AGvnlHItk
Message: Posted by: The Dowser (Apr 12, 2011 11:22AM)
Nice!
Message: Posted by: tommy (Apr 12, 2011 11:38AM)
That looked very good, thank you.
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (Apr 12, 2011 11:46AM)
Thank you

do you guys know resources for other ways to set the brief for the cut?
maybe its just because I haven't practised much but I feel the way I do it in the video isn't that good
Message: Posted by: The Dowser (Apr 12, 2011 12:25PM)
Is it your intention to pass the cut, or to cut it yourself like a house dealer?
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (Apr 12, 2011 12:32PM)
Im interested in both :)
Message: Posted by: blackeagle (Apr 12, 2011 12:34PM)
[quote]
On 2011-04-11 05:43, Tony45 wrote:
[quote]
On 2011-04-10 05:11, cinahcem wrote:
Good work. But curiosity compels me to ask. What are you purposes of mastering these gambling sleights. Maybe, it is asking to much, however I am just interested in the motive to master these moves.
[/quote]

Well speaking for myself, I would think the main reason to master these moves is so you can post a vid on here and have half the guys say it wouldnt work in a game and the other half to tell you it looked good enough to pass in a game. Then they can take turns sniping at each other for 5-6 pages or several days, or which ever comes first. The main reason though is to get a good beef going. Is there any way we can unblock the cuss words so it can really have an authentic feel to it ?
You have to excuse me now, I have to go look for my fake car keys that I left in the last place I had to leave via the bathroom window. :)
[/quote]
Did I just get sniped. I don't even read entire post anymore, the juicy stuff is the last one or two lines.
Message: Posted by: blackeagle (Apr 12, 2011 12:39PM)
[quote]
On 2011-04-11 14:54, joeyfx wrote:
[quote]however I am just interested in the motive to master these moves. [/quote]

for riffle stacking my motiavtion is this video:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=121502425478251013#

ever since I saw that video, I wanted my riffle stacks to look like that ;)
[/quote]
Riffle stacking videos should be done in sets of 7. The mechanic should do the stack 7 times in a row uncut, unedited in order to get my full gratitude. I mean, how many times did he mess up prior to the final copy. Many I bet.
Message: Posted by: The Dowser (Apr 12, 2011 12:46PM)
If he can do it that well once, I'll give the benefit that it can happen again... I don't need to see it seven times to satisfy my envy (sour grapes)... especially "unedited"... how tedious to watch.
Message: Posted by: stoneunhinged (Apr 12, 2011 01:25PM)
[quote]
On 2011-04-11 23:51, Mr. Z wrote:
[quote]
On 2011-04-11 22:05, The Dowser wrote:
I think by the time he got around to the cut he just got really tired of being awesome... and said "f*<K it".
[/quote]

Heavy lies the crown...

Hey you try wearing a crown while holding a silver spoon all day. Not easy.
[/quote]

Z, you could at least buy a decent watch. Crowns and silver spoons deserve something like a Patek Phillipe.

You know I love you just as much as I hate you. It's complicated. But if you can't afford a decent watch, I will buy one for you.

No joke.

PM me if you want something classy.

BTW, what's this thread about?
Message: Posted by: The Dowser (Apr 12, 2011 01:38PM)
[quote]
On 2011-04-12 13:32, joeyfx wrote:
Im interested in both :)
[/quote]
That leaves it pretty wide open... g.p.s. is a great series... and S.F.'s text on games protection is worth a look if you are serious enough to pay the price. There are a ton of ways sprinkled throughout the literature. Maybe some others here know some specific references to help you.
One simple answer (that will disgust some of the purists) is to leave a couple extra cards on your stock and simply skim them off with a zarrow (or double covered zarrow) shuffle so that you can then simply cut to the resulting break onto a cut card. It is straight forward and has the correct look as far as the cut goes.
Message: Posted by: Mr. Z (Apr 12, 2011 01:56PM)
[quote]
On 2011-04-12 14:25, stoneunhinged wrote:
[quote]
On 2011-04-11 23:51, Mr. Z wrote:
[quote]
On 2011-04-11 22:05, The Dowser wrote:
I think by the time he got around to the cut he just got really tired of being awesome... and said "f*<K it".
[/quote]

Heavy lies the crown...

Hey you try wearing a crown while holding a silver spoon all day. Not easy.
[/quote]

Z, you could at least buy a decent watch. Crowns and silver spoons deserve something like a Patek Phillipe.

You know I love you just as much as I hate you. It's complicated. But if you can't afford a decent watch, I will buy one for you.

No joke.

PM me if you want something classy.

BTW, what's this thread about?
[/quote]

Stone I appreciate the offer. But from where I'm sitting the idea isn't exactly to appear that you have money... ;)
Message: Posted by: stoneunhinged (Apr 12, 2011 02:08PM)
[quote]
On 2011-04-12 14:56, Mr. Z wrote:
[quote]
On 2011-04-12 14:25, stoneunhinged wrote:
[quote]
On 2011-04-11 23:51, Mr. Z wrote:
[quote]
On 2011-04-11 22:05, The Dowser wrote:
I think by the time he got around to the cut he just got really tired of being awesome... and said "f*<K it".
[/quote]

Heavy lies the crown...

Hey you try wearing a crown while holding a silver spoon all day. Not easy.
[/quote]

Z, you could at least buy a decent watch. Crowns and silver spoons deserve something like a Patek Phillipe.

You know I love you just as much as I hate you. It's complicated. But if you can't afford a decent watch, I will buy one for you.

No joke.

PM me if you want something classy.

BTW, what's this thread about?
[/quote]

Stone I appreciate the offer. But from where I'm sitting the idea isn't exactly to appear that you have money... ;)
[/quote]

Right.

Once again, you impress me with things I haven't thought about.

Well done, and you truly have yet another portion of my respect.

You are the KING. No joke. And...no joke.
Message: Posted by: AMcD (Apr 12, 2011 02:29PM)
Blakeagle,

The day you have 1% of Z's skills, you will be able to write bad comments about him. You tried to show me your skills a couple of times and the least I can say is that you have approximately 0 chance to get close to his category.

But yes, let's do it, show us a run of 7 run-ups for 7 players, 7th one gets 3 stacked cards. Of course RRSR procedure and nice cut. Never ask to someone what you are not able to do yourself.

JoeyFX,

Just wait a few days. I'll show you a couple of ways I use.
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (Apr 12, 2011 02:34PM)
[quote]JoeyFX,

Just wait a few days. I'll show you a couple of ways I use.[/quote]

hey thanks alot
much appreciated

[quote]One simple answer (that will disgust some of the purists) is to leave a couple extra cards on your stock and simply skim them off with a zarrow (or double covered zarrow) shuffle so that you can then simply cut to the resulting break onto a cut card. It is straight forward and has the correct look as far as the cut goes. [/quote]
thank you aswell
the idea with the zarrow is nice, I'll give it a try
Message: Posted by: splice (Apr 12, 2011 03:14PM)
The very, very correct look for a cut would have you release the deck with both hands before the cut. So make sure to find a way to jog a card or something instead of holding a break.

Also, that prepares you for a partner to cut the deck.
Message: Posted by: AMcD (Apr 12, 2011 03:19PM)
[quote]
On 2011-04-12 16:14, splice wrote:
The very, very correct look for a cut would have you release the deck with both hands before the cut. So make sure to find a way to jog a card or something instead of holding a break.
[/quote]

Yep, nice point. And that's the kind of cuts I'll show him :) (unless someone has got enough time to teach him before I get some).
Message: Posted by: The Dowser (Apr 12, 2011 04:05PM)
If the cut card is sitting in front of you there is no reason to let go with both hands... unless just beyond that cut card is an audience of magicians... very few casino dealers stop the process to free the deck of their hands.
Message: Posted by: Kirjava (Apr 12, 2011 04:05PM)
[quote]
One simple answer (that will disgust some of the purists) is to leave a couple extra cards on your stock and simply skim them off with a zarrow (or double covered zarrow) shuffle so that you can then simply cut to the resulting break onto a cut card. It is straight forward and has the correct look as far as the cut goes.
[/quote]

The Dowser,
I was also looking for a way to set the brief after a riffle. Thanks for the technique. Now to research the double covered zarrow... :)
Message: Posted by: The Dowser (Apr 12, 2011 04:10PM)
Your welcome but my suggestion does not set a brief... it allows you to cut immediately to a resulting break (which need not be "held" as the cut is immediate) upon completing the shuffle.
Message: Posted by: Tony45 (Apr 12, 2011 05:51PM)
[quote]
On 2011-04-12 13:34, blackeagle wrote:

Did I just get sniped. I don't even read entire post anymore, the juicy stuff is the last one or two lines.
[/quote]

Just comedy for comedys sake. Someones got to have a sense of humor among all this hostility. Then again, hostility is sometimes a good thing !
Now wheres my Rolex with the laser beam cutter in it ?
Message: Posted by: MickeyPainless (Apr 12, 2011 07:34PM)
[quote]
On 2011-04-12 18:51, Tony45 wrote:
Now wheres my Rolex with the laser beam cutter in it ?
[/quote]

I had one and the laser was spot on but the watch kept lousy time! I'm a TAG man myself! ;)
Message: Posted by: Kirjava (Apr 13, 2011 06:30AM)
My bad... Thanks for correcting the linguistics.
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (Apr 13, 2011 12:48PM)
New video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wItFEOQlAK8

telle me if its too much video spamming ;)
Message: Posted by: The Dowser (Apr 13, 2011 01:06PM)
Nice!
Message: Posted by: FILL--IPINESS (Apr 14, 2011 11:30AM)
Nice video , the only advice is that you get some sun because you are very pale.


FILL
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (Apr 14, 2011 01:21PM)
[quote]Nice video , the only advice is that you get some sun because you are very pale. [/quote]
comes due to the colour correction ;)


New Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLrUXNQfHUo
(trying to eliminate the dead drops)
Message: Posted by: The Dowser (Apr 14, 2011 06:26PM)
Looks good!
Message: Posted by: Enzo (Apr 15, 2011 12:02PM)
Pretty F-in good!
Message: Posted by: MickeyPainless (Apr 15, 2011 02:55PM)
These young guys annoy the hell outta me! ;)

Thanks Joey!!!

MMc
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (Apr 16, 2011 08:22AM)
[quote]Thanks Joey!!! [/quote]
you're welcome ;)

New Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jg6pVGdZxu0
(very basic double duke)

Thanks to AMcD for his helpfull drills video :)
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (May 8, 2011 04:49AM)
New Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MU_NvOf-XkE
(Riffle stacking practise)
Message: Posted by: AMcD (May 8, 2011 10:19AM)
Hehehe. If my videos are of some help for people it's really great.

About your videos. Nicely done young man, now include the cut!
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (May 10, 2011 12:12PM)
[quote]Hehehe. If my videos are of some help for people it's really great.[/quote]
they are very helpful

New Video
Push off second

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHg2trxc7kA
(i changed the way I take the card a bit)
Message: Posted by: jjsanvert (May 11, 2011 01:07AM)
Both of you: great work, in my opinion!Thanks for sharing.
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (May 29, 2011 01:22PM)
New video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAXOyAtslts
not a practise video
but I hope you enjoy it
Message: Posted by: The Dowser (May 29, 2011 01:28PM)
Joey,
very nice
Message: Posted by: AMcD (May 29, 2011 11:08PM)
Nice video.

Now, you bypass the cut nicely. (It surely has to do with the displayed p. 32 of the booklet right in front of you :)).

Good job young man!
Message: Posted by: LoïcJ. (May 30, 2011 05:58AM)
Very good Joey ! Nice work as well sleight of hand as film editing (do you use sony vegas ?). Thanks for sharing.
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (May 30, 2011 12:02PM)
[quote]Now, you bypass the cut nicely. (It surely has to do with the displayed p. 32 of the booklet right in front of you ).[/quote]
thank you, and yes it has something to do with your booklet ;)
But Im still not quite sure how I should bypass the cut when the person on my right cuts them, instead of cutting it myself
do you use the crimp and hope that he accidently cuts to it? or do you only use it with a partner?

[quote]as well sleight of hand as film editing (do you use sony vegas ?). Thanks for sharing. [/quote]
thank you
Im using After Effects for colour correction and compositing and Sony Vegas for editing
Message: Posted by: splice (May 30, 2011 12:24PM)
What's so accidental about someone cutting to a crimp that would be located where they would naturally, usually cut the deck (since you observed them and positioned the crimp appropriately)?

There are magic tricks that rely on a spectator unknowingly cutting to a crimp. If some people are willing to risk humiliation when this doesn't work, I think we should be willing to face our stack not coming through with no one the wiser save ourselves.
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (May 30, 2011 12:27PM)
Ok thanks :) , makes sense
Message: Posted by: splice (May 30, 2011 12:43PM)
Point is if you're looking for a sure thing when working single-o, you do what the Doc does and cold deck your way into a big score. Using stacking and a crimp is nowhere near as strong, but it can play more often. So I think it's more of a percentage play than a solid score. You've also got the whole culling thing which is above and beyond the stack and bypassing the cut. It's a lot of work, to be honest.
Message: Posted by: manolesta73 (May 31, 2011 07:47AM)
Bravo,nice work,
that white booklet, I think have read it :)
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (May 31, 2011 10:26AM)
Thanks again for the insight splice
I think I had a wrong picture about how riffle stacking is actually used
Message: Posted by: 900nm (May 31, 2011 01:21PM)
I don't like one thing. After you stacked the cards at 0:27 you cut the deck. So you have the crimp on top of the stacked cards. Then you split the deck in too and only shuffle the cards to the upper half of the deck while you could shuffle some cards to the bottom also. I don't know if I'm clear mayb I'll make a video.
Message: Posted by: AMcD (May 31, 2011 02:09PM)
@900nm

Yes it's also possible to shuffle some cards to the bottom to make it look like better. But at that speed and with more cover (just a bit) no one would notice something wrong. I do that for years.

BTW, there is no crimp here. No breather either.
Message: Posted by: 900nm (May 31, 2011 02:39PM)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pA-d5Pmo4Vg&hd=1 here you go Joey.
Message: Posted by: splice (May 31, 2011 02:48PM)
I don't get why shuffling some cards to the bottom would do anything given that you still have that huge unshuffled block in the middle. Covering that instead of essentially drawing attention to it is likely to be a better option.
Message: Posted by: 900nm (May 31, 2011 02:56PM)
It a twist I like. You choose! I'm don't have time to argue in a way or another, take it or leave it.
Message: Posted by: 900nm (May 31, 2011 02:58PM)
Well if you really wanna know originally when I showed this to certain people I was only retaining a small slug of cards so you wouldn't talk about a "huge unshuffled block in the middle."
Message: Posted by: 900nm (May 31, 2011 03:03PM)
In the video you can see how I'm surprised how the shuffle is crappy trying to retain a big slug with my technique*
Message: Posted by: splice (May 31, 2011 03:50PM)
Regardless of how big the slug is, it is exactly the same size whether you stack cards beneath it or not. If a 10-card slug looks wrong because you shuffled only above it, it looks just as wrong if you shuffle cards only beneath and above it.
Message: Posted by: AMcD (May 31, 2011 04:27PM)
+1 with splice (yes, can happen).

The way you do it, big gaps are gonna be visible from the front. I think it's worse. IMHO. I prefer using more cover.
Message: Posted by: Expertmagician (May 31, 2011 09:59PM)
I personally like your shuffle work....But, I can not tell from the video if you are staring at the cards to 'check" and see if you hit OR are you doing the "hold backs" by touch alone ?

Can you stack at the demonstrated speeds while your are looking at others and talking ?

If you can, then those are the traits of a pro :)
Message: Posted by: popcalinda (Jun 1, 2011 01:38AM)
If you ask me, looks really nice. Being perfectionist can make more troubles then use sometimes.
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (Jun 1, 2011 03:32PM)
[quote]Can you stack at the demonstrated speeds while your are looking at others and talking ? [/quote]
talking and stacking is too much multitasking for me right now :D
But Im practising stacking without looking at my hands
I still have to glimpse at the cards from time to time though

Glad you still like my shuffle work :)
Message: Posted by: AMcD (Jun 1, 2011 03:42PM)
Don't worry too much about that joey. Everyone look at the deck. The point is not to stare at it or to look like mesmerized by the deck.
Message: Posted by: splice (Jun 1, 2011 04:53PM)
Arnold is right (no, seriously). Practicing stacking without looking at the deck is good to sharpen your skills, but go to any rotating deal home game and watch the regular players shuffle, you'll notice pretty much everyone looks at the deck. In fact, seeing someone do a perfect RRSR without looking at the deck once would set me on edge. Unless I had a reason to believe that dealer is supposed to be that proficient, it just looks too suspicious.

But if you practice while always looking at the deck you'll fall into the trap of your shuffle looking too studied, and that's just as bad or worse than not looking at the deck at all.
Message: Posted by: AMcD (Jun 1, 2011 07:07PM)
Footnote #47, p. 41 :).
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (Jun 2, 2011 09:05AM)
New Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xc-Mb5SGlGk

I tried to hide the gap in the last shuffle a bit more
the bad lighting and the angle certainly helped aswell ^^
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (Jun 18, 2011 02:26PM)
New Video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhxGKbOI0Bs

Not a practise video, but maybe you enjoy it anyway :)
Message: Posted by: The Dowser (Jun 19, 2011 06:14AM)
This video was very well made. You clearly have skills in more than one field.

I like everything you are doing and you are earning my respect.

Great job!
Message: Posted by: jjsanvert (Jun 19, 2011 09:30AM)
I agree - great touch, very smooth - and perfectly filmed.
Message: Posted by: slim23 (Jun 19, 2011 10:20AM)
Good video.
You are getting good at film editing also!

Bravo!

Slim
Message: Posted by: AMcD (Jun 19, 2011 12:10PM)
Hahaha, I really appreciate the plug about the booklet young man. I promise, here, you will get the second volume for free! By the way, the binding looks damaged, is it because bad postal services?

Otherwise, you are getting better week after week, time is near for people like me to get retired.

Pun aside, I like to see all of you, young "kids", learning fast, showing and displaying multiple talents. It such a different behavior compared to the old farts of Magic/Gambling I've struggled with during the last decades! They share nothing, very few are capable or knowledgeable and it's always a matter of money and secret retention ("I have the money, I know, you don't, I'm the master, you're an idiot"). Your generation learn, practice, improve, have real skills. You make our "Art" evolving and you bring motivation. I like that.

Because that first booklet I have received dozens of very kind mails. I've been literally amazed learning that the few tens of videos I've posted on several forums thru the last years have been an inspiration for many of you! It's a big surprise as I'm not Richard Turner or Steve Forte and I thank you, all of you (included those who don't like me). I have one query though. Me, I have learned a lot from many guys posting here, from Z's or Doc's videos just to name two. I'd like to see you posting material in the future for the next generations.

Good job Joey!
Message: Posted by: jjsanvert (Jun 19, 2011 12:50PM)
This forum is going to be a movie club of a very special kind - and I like it.
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (Jun 19, 2011 12:54PM)
[quote]Hahaha, I really appreciate the plug about the booklet young man. I promise, here, you will get the second volume for free! By the way, the binding looks damaged, is it because bad postal services? [/quote]
wow thanks alot, very kind of you =)
one of the binding rings was a little bit damaged when I got it, but its no problem ( it actually looks worse in the video than it really is )

[quote]I've been literally amazed learning that the few tens of videos I've posted on several forums thru the last years have been an inspiration for many of you[/quote]
they really are a big inspiration to me
For example your video "Stacking on the Fly" basically made start to practise the riffle cull
I still watch that video just because it looks so great

[quote]I have one query though. Me, I have learned a lot from many guys posting here, from Z's or Doc's videos just to name two. I'd like to see you posting material in the future for the next generations[/quote]
I don't have any material to share, besides showing my process in learning new moves
But I'm more than happy to share what I know
at the moment I'm still busy learning stuff that people created before me

thanks for your comments guys =)
Message: Posted by: Unknown419 (Jun 19, 2011 01:39PM)
[quote]
On 2011-06-19 13:10, AMcD wrote:
Hahaha, I really appreciate the plug about the booklet young man. I promise, here, you will get the second volume for free! By the way, the binding looks damaged, is it because bad postal services?

Otherwise, you are getting better week after week, time is near for people like me to get retired.

Pun aside, I like to see all of you, young "kids", learning fast, showing and displaying multiple talents. It such a different behavior compared to the old farts of Magic/Gambling I've struggled with during the last decades! They share nothing, very few are capable or knowledgeable and it's always a matter of money and secret retention ("I have the money, I know, you don't, I'm the master, you're an idiot"). Your generation learn, practice, improve, have real skills. You make our "Art" evolving and you bring motivation. I like that.

Because that first booklet I have received dozens of very kind mails. I've been literally amazed learning that the few tens of videos I've posted on several forums thru the last years have been an inspiration for many of you! It's a big surprise as I'm not Richard Turner or Steve Forte and I thank you, all of you (included those who don't like me). I have one query though. Me, I have learned a lot from many guys posting here, from Z's or Doc's videos just to name two. I'd like to see you posting material in the future for the next generations.

Good job Joey!
[/quote]

I definitely agree with AMcD on what he just said and please do me a favor as well, accept my apology for not mentioning you in my present day expert write-up because I honestly wasn't familiar with your work; but I am now. Keep up the good work.


Respectfully,

Doc
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (Jun 19, 2011 01:43PM)
Means a lot to hear something like this from you doc =)
your cold deck video was one of the first "cheating/gambling sleight" videos I saw and it is still a pleasure and inspiration to watch
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (Jun 23, 2011 01:33PM)
New Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3I1H-Hu6B4
(Push Off Second Deal)
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (Jun 27, 2011 01:43PM)
New Video:

http://vimeo.com/20402914

http://vimeo.com/20552448

This is me fiddling around with the miller table shift
not very deceptive I know, but I think it would be pretty cool for a demonstration
feedback is appreciated as always :)
Message: Posted by: Vincero (Jun 27, 2011 06:51PM)
Awesome push off. I like the Miller shift too. I can't critique it, I haven't got around to learning it myself yet. Maybe jjsanvert can chime in with this one. He pulls off an incredible Miller shift in his video "The Advantage Player".

Good work,

Zac
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (Jun 29, 2011 03:19PM)
Thank you Zac =)

New Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7bf2_SUkfc
Message: Posted by: tommy (Jun 29, 2011 04:08PM)
Cool and quite dramatic. :)
Message: Posted by: the dealer (Jun 30, 2011 07:50PM)
Hey joey..just curious...what kinda camera are you using...and editing software?

thanks,
JD
Message: Posted by: LOUIEL (Jun 30, 2011 08:59PM)
Great Videos Joeyfx, excellent work, thanks for sharing them!!

LOUIE L
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (Jul 1, 2011 12:15AM)
Thank you =)

@JD
The camera Im using is the Canon 550D
I use After Effects for compositing and Sony Vegas for editing
Message: Posted by: Vincero (Jul 1, 2011 05:10AM)
Wonderful work, I'm jealous. It's great to see this. You have so much potential, I hope that more of the proffessional guys aroun dhere are able to comment on your technique. You will go far.

Zac
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (Jul 1, 2011 10:06AM)
Thank you again zac
really means a lot to me =)

[quote]I hope that more of the proffessional guys aroun dhere are able to comment on your technique[/quote]
even if they don't
I already learned a lot from just reading their posts and searching through the forum
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (Jul 3, 2011 01:03PM)
New Video:
http://vimeo.com/25935502
(ping pong shift)
Message: Posted by: Unknown419 (Jul 3, 2011 03:11PM)
Joey your ping pong shift is excellent, the illusion is great.

Now regarding your Charlie Miller shift, you're doing this like a grade A magician which needs to be improved upon. How? Stop picking up the deck and looking at all the bottom card(s) before you place the deck in your hand to deal. You think if I was playing cards with you that I would let you look at the bottom stock? Hell no. This is a great advantage in playing cards, knowing what and what not to play or to disband. I have a friend by the name of Doug Edwards who demonstrates this Charlie Miller Spin Pass just like you and I told him the same thing. Eliminate that looking at the bottom of the deck pick up and you will have a perfect gambling shift for the card table.

Take care,

Respectfully,

Doc
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (Jul 3, 2011 03:32PM)
Thank you for your comment Doc, highly appreciated =)
makes perfect sense

the reason I added this sliding action was because I could never believe that the pass would work
no matter how much I tried, the visible spinning action of the top packet always disturbed me
so I added this extra motion to cover it, the downside of course is what you mentioned in your post

I guess I'll just go back to the original handling of the shift, without looking at the bottom card
again thank you for your comment =)
Message: Posted by: Unknown419 (Jul 3, 2011 11:13PM)
If you do the spinning action fast enough no one will see it except for you. If you still see it and you're not satisfied when you look in the mirror then just add a little more cover by using all 4 fingers close together with no windows and you or no one else will see the move.

Take care,

Doc
Message: Posted by: bblumen (Jul 6, 2011 04:19PM)
[quote]
On 2011-07-03 16:32, joeyfx wrote:

[snip]

the reason I added this sliding action was because I could never believe that the pass would work
no matter how much I tried, the visible spinning action of the top packet always disturbed me
so I added this extra motion to cover it, the downside of course is what you mentioned in your post

I guess I'll just go back to the original handling of the shift, without looking at the bottom card
again thank you for your comment =)
[/quote]


Look at [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHhH7IlgxOM]this handling.[/url]

Just eliminate the all-around-square at the end.
Message: Posted by: kipling100 (Jul 6, 2011 07:17PM)
Or maybe if you do the shift on top of a cut card, the picking up and looking at the bottom card wouldn't be as problematic?
Message: Posted by: Unknown419 (Jul 7, 2011 02:27AM)
[quote]
On 2011-07-06 17:19, bblumen wrote:
[quote]
On 2011-07-03 16:32, joeyfx wrote:

[snip]

the reason I added this sliding action was because I could never believe that the pass would work
no matter how much I tried, the visible spinning action of the top packet always disturbed me
so I added this extra motion to cover it, the downside of course is what you mentioned in your post

I guess I'll just go back to the original handling of the shift, without looking at the bottom card
again thank you for your comment =)
[/quote]


Look at [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHhH7IlgxOM]this handling.[/url]

Just eliminate the all-around-square at the end.
[/quote]


Joey don't pay attention to the photos or the video. The bottom card is still flashed to the players at the table which is wrong and the photos of charlie miller show the move the wrong way with the bottom card being shown to the opposite player which is wrong. Do it as I told you to, just use more fingers as cover and speed up the spin action if necessary.

Doc
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (Jul 7, 2011 07:56AM)
@bblumen: thanks for the link
I know about the handling but I never really liked the cover for the move

@Doc:
Im practising it the way you told me
I'll post another video when Im ready =)
Message: Posted by: Unknown419 (Jul 7, 2011 04:43PM)
Hey Joey here's a really brief clip of me doing the Spin Pass when I was with Sal, Rod the Hop and Steve Forte in Vegas. It's nothing special about it but you see how I cover it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zxJBy13PKw

Respectfully,

Doc
Message: Posted by: bblumen (Jul 7, 2011 04:46PM)
[quote]
On 2011-07-07 17:43, Unknown419 wrote:
Hey Joey here's a really brief clip of me doing the Spin Pass when I was with Sal, Rod the Hop and Steve Forte in Vegas. It's nothing special about it but you see how I cover it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zxJBy13PKw

Respectfully,

Doc

[/quote]


Excellent!


Brian
Message: Posted by: Unknown419 (Jul 7, 2011 04:57PM)
Thank you Brian

Doc
Message: Posted by: bblumen (Jul 7, 2011 05:07PM)
Doc,


Would you use it in a game?


Brian
Message: Posted by: Vincero (Jul 8, 2011 12:14AM)
That's a beautiful Miller Shift Doc!!
Message: Posted by: Unknown419 (Jul 8, 2011 05:18AM)
[quote]
On 2011-07-07 18:07, bblumen wrote:
Doc,


Would you use it in a game?


Brian
[/quote]

I used this shift a whole lot in games when I used to bottom deal. You all have to understand that the players who you're gambling with don't know you, so how in the world would they know how you replace a cut. People accept from you what they first see and from that point on to them that is your mannerism. If you start off dealing fast they accept that as the way you deal all the time. To me everyone that I've shown the spin pass to love it because it's so pretty. How can a person who don't know anything about a hop understand a spin pass; they can't.

If you all don't believe me just go up to anyone and say watch this cut and don't tell them that you're putting the deck back to it's original position and you'll see that they don't even know what's going on unless you tell them.


Best,

Doc
Message: Posted by: Gino T. (Jul 8, 2011 08:49AM)
I love the miller shift since it can be used with a cut card too.
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (Aug 21, 2011 08:15AM)
New Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJWYkZgabH0
Not much improvement but Im back froma a week in hospital and wanted to let you know Im still alive =)
Message: Posted by: jjsanvert (Aug 22, 2011 01:55AM)
***ed - I hope it was not for your hands ;)
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (Aug 22, 2011 02:45PM)
:D no the hands are fine
but I couldn't practise a lot
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (Aug 23, 2011 11:02AM)
New Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3b65qU223o
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (Sep 1, 2011 12:24PM)
New Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aO51G_TXmUY
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (Nov 6, 2011 06:38AM)
New Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBVAq60K6cI
Message: Posted by: Vincero (Nov 6, 2011 02:54PM)
Something about the way you handle cards is very rhythmic and elegant. I like it. Well done, as always.
Message: Posted by: poonchingyip (Nov 6, 2011 11:08PM)
[quote]
On 2011-11-06 15:54, Vincero wrote:
Something about the way you handle cards is very rhythmic and elegant. I like it. Well done, as always.
[/quote]
I agree. His style on gambling materials are very nice and unique =)

- Arthur
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (Dec 30, 2011 10:11AM)
Thank you Vincero and Arthur, glad you guys like it

New Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=947wkLwLobY
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (Feb 10, 2012 02:34AM)
New Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewsAJVow7EA
(moving a slug from the bottom to the top of the deck)
Message: Posted by: poonchingyip (Feb 10, 2012 02:52AM)
I cannot follow the slug at all!!!! EXCELLENT WORK AGAIN =)

- Arthur
Message: Posted by: tommy (Feb 10, 2012 06:20AM)
This is a distinct change of procedure but very nice
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (Feb 10, 2012 07:12AM)
@Arthur: Thank you as always

@tommy: because I did the last cut after a running cut, instead of doing it after a shuffle as usual? or because I did the kinda strange squaring action (looking at the cards)
or because of both?
thanks for your input, much appreciated :)
Message: Posted by: LoïcJ. (Feb 11, 2012 06:02AM)
Very Good Job !
Let's go on the Wire, Joey ! ;)
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Feb 11, 2012 11:08AM)
[quote]
On 2011-04-12 17:05, The Dowser wrote:
If the cut card is sitting in front of you there is no reason to let go with both hands...very few casino dealers stop the process to free the deck of their hands.
[/quote]
Actually the correct procedure is to release the deck prior to the final cut. This procedure was instituted to show the players and the floor that no “break” is being held. However, in actual practice, as The Dowser notes above, many dealers don’t release with both hands and go right into the cut, or in some cases the cut follows so quickly after the final riffle the momentary release is so slight it may not be noticeable.

I have been in some big games where a couple of times a player complained to the floor that the deck was not being released prior to the cut and the situation was immediately rectified.

I mean no disrespect to dealers with the following statements, as they are usually honest hard working people just making a living. However, keep in mind that most dealers, regardless of the game they are dealing, are “square johns” and don’t have the slightest idea of how to do anything dishonest that would “fly” over a period of time. In the gambling business they are sometimes referred to as “clerks” and the repetitiveness of their dealing is somewhat akin to working on an assembly line – the same repetitive movements over and over again. Dealing some games is almost completely mind numbing, others (like a “jam-up” craps game with a lot of action) can be challenging until the game slows down.

However, most dealers fall into a routine to make dealing easy on themselves so sometimes they take a little shortcut here and there. Procedures are not always enforced unless player complaints require enforcement. It is just not considered that important to the floor personnel as they want a lot of hands dealt, without problems, so that the rake keeps coming in.

Since the house’s money is not at stake, it is the player’s responsibility to protect himself. The house only steps in if it perceives something will affect the smooth functioning of the game.
Message: Posted by: vendzz (Feb 11, 2012 02:44PM)
First, thanks Joey for letting everyone see your talent-- I enjoy watching all the videos you have posted. About this last video--and I may be missing the point entirely-- but would this manipulation, that is bringing a slug from the bottom to the top, ever be useful in any form of poker? Or would this only be used while playing other games, which have dealing that would make having a top stock more useful.
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (Feb 16, 2012 12:40PM)
Hey vendzz
"unfortunately" Im not a card cheat, so I can't tell you anything about the real uses (if there are any) of this slug transfer.
Maybe someone that is more familiar with actual cheating techniques can tell you more :)
Message: Posted by: cartouche7 (Feb 16, 2012 12:49PM)
Just an example, if you want to stack card by using a riffle stack, you can transfer the card from the bottom to the top one by one and add the number of card you want to the top. If you riffle stack with this technique, it will be no hesitation to the drop.

An other example, if you are permanent dealer, you keep a memorized slug to the bottom of the deck (the easiest place to keep card) that you have cull from a previous hand, you play some hand and always keep the slug to the bottom by false shuffling/cutting, and then, you bring the slug to the top and then, you can deal known hole card.
Message: Posted by: tommy (Feb 16, 2012 02:27PM)
Its not a bad advantage in poker or any game to know what the top few cards are as a matter of fact. All you need to know to win at gambling is more than everybody.
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Feb 16, 2012 03:11PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-16 13:40, joeyfx wrote:
"unfortunately" Im not a card cheat, so I can't tell you anything about the real uses (if there are any) of this slug transfer.
[/quote]

I can’t believe this. A skillful card manipulator of gambling type moves who is honest enough to admit that he does not know how to get the money or the best way to apply his move(s) in a game.

Joeyfx, I take my hat off to you and you have my undying respect for saying that. Many with your ability would stick their chest out and pretend or imply they were a top card hustler, or at least able to get the money if they really wanted to.

Two thumbs up, joeyfx.
Message: Posted by: AMcD (Feb 16, 2012 03:42PM)
@Cagliostro,

Whether the guy is Skillful or not, it's not very difficult to spot braggers. 2-3 questions about a real card game and you see them disappear...
Message: Posted by: The Dowser (Feb 16, 2012 11:58PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-16 16:11, Cagliostro wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-02-16 13:40, joeyfx wrote:
"unfortunately" Im not a card cheat, so I can't tell you anything about the real uses (if there are any) of this slug transfer.
[/quote]

I can’t believe this. A skillful card manipulator of gambling type moves who is honest enough to admit that he does not know how to get the money or the best way to apply his move(s) in a game.

Joeyfx, I take my hat off to you and you have my undying respect for saying that. Many with your ability would stick their chest out and pretend or imply they were a top card hustler, or at least able to get the money if they really wanted to.

Two thumbs up, joeyfx.
[/quote]

I shot my arrow into the air....
so that it may land... I know not where....
towards a forum of braggarts it sailed...
the one who speaks first is the one who got nailed.
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (Feb 17, 2012 11:13AM)
Thanks to cartouche7 and tommy for the insight.

@Cagliostro
The fact that I know very little about actual play, was one of the first things I learned here.
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (Feb 26, 2012 09:14AM)
New Video:
Split-Stacking
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7qmpWM5w74

I have to admit though, that I don't hit the last one (holding back 10 cards and splitting into 5/5) consistently yet :)
Message: Posted by: AMcD (Feb 26, 2012 09:38AM)
Very well done joey.

Honestly, but for the Art maybe, you don't have to go 5/5. Personally I use 3/1, 1/3, 1/2 or 2/1 a lot. Up to 8 players it's enough. You can stack any set using 4 riffles maximum and holding back no more than 5 cards (4 cards in most of the cases).

I'm really glad to see people applying some stuff out of #1. It motivates me for the other volumes :).

Thanks to you and keep going practicing.
Message: Posted by: tommy (Feb 26, 2012 01:41PM)
Yes its looking good. Thanks.
Message: Posted by: Tony45 (Feb 27, 2012 04:07AM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-26 10:14, joeyfx wrote:
New Video:
Split-Stacking
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7qmpWM5w74

I have to admit though, that I don't hit the last one (holding back 10 cards and splitting into 5/5) consistently yet :)
[/quote]

Really nice work, Joe. How old are you ? If you don't mind me asking that is.
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (Feb 27, 2012 06:03AM)
Thank you AMcD, means a lot to me :)
Can't wait for the next volumes.

@Tony45:
Im 20 years old
Message: Posted by: Tony45 (Feb 27, 2012 02:43PM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-27 07:03, joeyfx wrote:
Thank you AMcD, means a lot to me :)
Can't wait for the next volumes.

@Tony45:
Im 20 years old
[/quote]

Well, that's some good work you do. Now if you can train the girls as well as you do those cards, youre all set ! :)
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (Mar 9, 2012 08:56AM)
New Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noYOQJaSy5c
Message: Posted by: tommy (Mar 9, 2012 09:58AM)
That looks very cool to me.
Message: Posted by: Expertmagician (Mar 9, 2012 11:40AM)
Beautiful, clean, smooth.....I loved it !
Keep up the great work :)
Reminds me of my youth....no time to practice any more with wife, job and family.
Life gets in the way :)

NOTE: The only comment that I have is that in some ways it is "too clean". You handle cards too beautifully. You may want to keep this style for people like us.....but, trying to be not as "smooth" may make you look more like a regular lay person handling cards.

Just something to think about....again, I loved the handling and I also prefer a cool, smooth, well timed style :) ...but, some people may say "too slick" :)
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (Mar 9, 2012 03:56PM)
Glad you guys liked it
and thank you for the tip Expertmagician
Message: Posted by: Expertmagician (Mar 9, 2012 04:12PM)
Always happy to help :)
Message: Posted by: The Dowser (Mar 11, 2012 05:36AM)
Well I have said it before, but for you I will repeat it:
[quote]
On 2011-06-19 07:14, The Dowser wrote:
This video was very well made. You clearly have skills in more than one field.

I like everything you are doing and you are earning my respect.

Great job!
[/quote]

As long as you can stay "unaffected" (I am not just referring to attitude... but more so to body language and the way you present your moves) and as long as you don't get a swelled head, then you are a star in my book.
Great stuff,
as always.
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (Mar 11, 2012 07:05AM)
[quote]As long as you can stay "unaffected" (I am not just referring to attitude... but more so to body language and the way you present your moves)[/quote]
Sorry I didn't quite get that part
But Im glad you enjoy my videos
Message: Posted by: The Dowser (Mar 11, 2012 07:24AM)
Some people have a swagger when they walk, some card men have something similar to a swagger in the way they handle cards... it is "affected".

There are a few big names that have this problem so badly that you know who they are immediately just by seeing footage of their hands... you can even tell who their students are. If you can avoid the "I'm too sexy for my cards" body language that creeps in to most of the gambling demo's on the internet then that is what I am getting at.

I've heard it referred to as "handling the cards with confidence" but is can certainly be overdone and also points up skill rather than promotes deception. Anyway, I am sorry to have given this much explanation as it is not something I consider you to be guilty of... just something I would hate to see happen to your work.
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (Mar 11, 2012 10:43AM)
Im afraid to tell you that pretty much all of your points are things I want to achieve someday
especially being confindet and "creating" a distinctive style of handling the cards is something I was working on since I started (and hopefully I will get there eventually)

[quote]be overdone and also points up skill rather than promotes deception.[/quote]
I completly agree, but I should mention that I'll never intended to start a career as a card cheat
I mainly practise those moves for fun and to share them with other card guys

Im sorry to disappoint you, but I thought I should make that clear :)
Message: Posted by: The Dowser (Mar 12, 2012 03:01AM)
-Not disappointed...

"it's your thing, do what you want to do...
I can't tell you
how to bust a move."

besides, you missed my real point, but it seems it wasn't worth making in the first place.
Message: Posted by: tommy (Mar 12, 2012 04:52AM)
:) I think it was one of the best points we have heard here in a long time, maybe Our Magic explains it somewhere under attitude.
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (Jun 7, 2012 10:53AM)
New Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txjFoR4Fb6E

its been a while since I handled cards but maybe some of you like it anyway
Message: Posted by: poonchingyip (Jun 10, 2012 01:36AM)
The one-handed bottom thingy is my favourite, even though I always love your work very much.

- Arthur
Message: Posted by: Vincero (Jun 10, 2012 06:19AM)
Should probably keep handling cards... Awesome stuff.
Message: Posted by: The Dowser (Jun 10, 2012 09:08AM)
[quote]
On 2012-06-10 07:19, Vincero wrote:
Should probably keep handling cards... Awesome stuff.
[/quote]

True Dat!
Message: Posted by: Vincero (Jun 14, 2012 02:58AM)
[quote]
On 2012-06-10 10:08, The Dowser wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-06-10 07:19, Vincero wrote:
Should probably keep handling cards... Awesome stuff.
[/quote]

True Dat!
[/quote]

Yeah Bo
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (Jun 16, 2012 11:59AM)
Thank you guys

New Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiSGVJLR8LY
Message: Posted by: p-n_junction (Jun 17, 2012 02:26AM)
Great work joe.
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (Jul 1, 2012 09:08AM)
Thank you for your nice comments guys.

New Video:
(not a lot of moves though)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPWTI2WTNl8
Message: Posted by: AMcD (Jul 1, 2012 09:23AM)
Hahaha, thanks for the plug. Young man, the day I release serious videos I might call upon you. You do very nice video work (as well as handling cards nicely).

PS: next Arcanum(s), soon, very soon. Some have even seen pages this afternoon. Ask popcalinda :P.
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (Jul 1, 2012 09:50AM)
@AMcD: that's great to hear, looking forward to buy them
and thanks for the commment
Message: Posted by: poonchingyip (Jul 2, 2012 12:00AM)
AMcD, are you going to annouce it when you hvae completed the next Arcanum?
OR on your site?

- Arthur
Message: Posted by: AMcD (Jul 3, 2012 08:53AM)
Normally, this year I'll release 2 Arcanums, #2 (Controls, part I) and one "special edition (SE)". I still plan #2 for September and SE for the end of the year. The main problem is that SE is already 120 pages in length and growing in size every week. I'm afraid it's gonna be a HUGE one... Anyway, until then there will be something else released in July and August.

I apologize for being so slow at writing but life's not so easy. Besides, I'm a bit perfectionist, as you might have noticed... And, as usual, some people supposed to "help" me have disappeared. From now on, I will work with the same 2-3 guys, I'll avoid bad surprises.

Thanks to the all of you for inquiring.
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (Aug 11, 2012 11:27AM)
Although its not a video containing gambling sleights, a few of you might enjoy it anyway :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDvOHAAPYt0

regards
Joey
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (Sep 23, 2012 01:37PM)
New Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YI3ZmmERpos

Doing the HE 1-3 stacking example from AMCDs Arcanum Booklet.

regards,
Joey
Message: Posted by: Albatros (Oct 9, 2012 07:41AM)
How could I miss the latest video? But then again there was a lot of stuff going on for me over the last few weeks, so maybe its no wonder I keep missing bits and pieces. I really like the stacking video. I cant talk about the methods as I do not own the Arcanum Booklet, but I also play around with similiar scenarios, stacking for Hold`Em. I am using some formulas Jeff Wessmiller discussed either here or on his blog. Do you restrain your stacking to the players and the flop or do you also go for a late luck during turn and river? Anyways, keep up the good work, its always fun to watch your videos!

All the best,
Sven ^^
Message: Posted by: Expertmagician (Oct 15, 2012 01:08PM)
Great videos....
But, this one was "private" :-(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDvOHAAPYt0
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (Mar 6, 2013 11:29AM)
New Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaa_DccYm78

just a short sequence to control the bottom stock, hope you like it :)
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (Mar 2, 2014 06:07AM)
Same move but slightly different handling:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8rsWu49sKo
Message: Posted by: AMcD (Mar 2, 2014 11:46AM)
Nicely done Joey!

What camera do you use? It's time for me to shoot more seriously...
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (Mar 2, 2014 12:06PM)
Thank you :)
Canon EOS 550D with a 50 mm 1.8 prime lense. However at the moment you get the follow up model (600D) for the same price.
Let me know if I can help.
Message: Posted by: AMcD (Mar 2, 2014 02:14PM)
I'm more into Nikon, but looks like Canon is great for videos.

Do you use umbrellas for light, any reflector? Any flash? Sorry for the questions, but I can see so many so-called "professional" videos which look like *** compared to yours (no I won't name any...).

You can use private ways if you want to :).
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (Mar 2, 2014 02:33PM)
[quote]I'm more into Nikon, but looks like Canon is great for videos. [/quote]
I like using DSLR's for video because you can achieve a pretty cinematic look very easily for a reasonable price. Plus you have the advantage of using different lenses. "Real" video cameras are a lot more expensive. Might be a better option to rent one for a couple days.

[quote]Do you use umbrellas for light, any reflector? Any flash?[/quote]
I don't own any professional lighting equipment, I'm a poor student after all :D
The lights I use cost about $10-15. A nice large piece of white cardboard works well enough as a reflector.
For the video I posted, I used only one light directly above the table. Nothing fancy :)

[quote] but I can see so many so-called "professional" videos which look like *** compared to yours[/quote]
Thank you.
Message: Posted by: Bobbycash (Mar 3, 2014 02:58AM)
The trailer made me bust out a deck of Aristocrats. Cheers Joey, looks fantastic
Message: Posted by: jjsanvert (Mar 4, 2014 02:27AM)
Great work Joey, as usual.
Message: Posted by: splice (Mar 5, 2014 08:50AM)
Hey man, I love the controls, loved them ever since I saw them in Z's hands and on 52.

Thing is, you're going to be selling this on the T11 Wire? Am I wrong or are they not your moves? Did you ask those you learned them from if you could teach them for profit?
Message: Posted by: AMcD (Mar 5, 2014 09:59AM)
[quote]
On Mar 5, 2014, splice wrote:
Am I wrong or are they not your moves? Did you ask those you learned them from if you could teach them for profit?
[/quote]

This one is precious!

T11, 52, X inc. or Y company, Did they ask themselves to the owners before releasing them for money? I doubt. I can tell it for sure, some sleights are mine!

Here's one for you. In 52 you can see demonstrated a "Mexican Joe" shift which is not a "Mexican Joe" shift, not the one demonstrated by Vernon in Revelations at least. But if you look closely it's what I called the KD shift, which I "invented/devised" myself many many years ago. It's been detailed or mentioned nowhere in the literature and as far as I know I've been the first one (and the only one) to demonstrate it on video (on various public forums) many years before 52, for instance here, on the Gambling Spot. Yet, I don't remember SF asking me anything.

I have a couple of other examples and, because all the people I know, I could talk about this problem for hours. Hundreds of sleights, variants are stolen. Welcome into the "magic" world :).

PS: Did I mention the fabulous "Someone demonstrated it for me x years before you, but I can't remember who, where or when", "I read it somewhere x years ago but I can't tell you", "Geez, it's not origoal, I do it myself for x years" or the classic "Lol, it's done by Gamblers since 19th century"?
Message: Posted by: splice (Mar 5, 2014 10:28AM)
Are you saying that because you think some people exposed sleights that you believe are yours that it's OK if others do it too? If you think you've been wronged, go ahead and discuss it with the people you believe wronged you. Either way, learning something from someone else and teaching it to others without their agreement is not something I think is kosher, whoever is involved.

What I'm interested in is Joey's current effort in selling these particular bottom stock controls on the T11 wire. The controls are the same as shown on 52 (#2, a bottom slug control with running cuts, and #5, a bottom slug control with boxing). I would like to know if Joey saw them there and if he spoke to anyone regarding his teaching them.

So, Joey, can you comment on this?
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (Mar 5, 2014 10:51AM)
[quote]So, Joey, can you comment on this? [/quote]
Well, it will be kind of pointless because you won't believe me anyway. No I haven't learned these moves from someone else.
I came up with the method myself, just like in my other releases. Of course knowledgeable people like you instantly know an original source and say: "Not original". And you might be correct.
However all of my "Wire Submissions" got accepted so far because I put quite some effort into the teaching part. Jonathan Bayme (T11 CEO) mentioned this as the reason in one of their podcasts.
Of course you can still argue about that and Im sure you have some valid points. But I don't really see any harm in me teaching thoses moves.
Message: Posted by: AMcD (Mar 5, 2014 10:54AM)
Why should I "believe" only and others not? I don't "think", I'm sure! I posted a message in 2008 here, asking guys to name my shift, and I showed it to some people here in 2007. I demonstrated it on another place in 2006! It's far before "52" no?

Before Joey comments I can tell you I did one of this bottom stock controls years before I even knew Steve Forte existed. Looks like you think he is the only one who knows sleights or have the right to "demonstrate" them.

Have you ever played cards in brick and mortar places? There are thousands of players able to perform moves that would amaze you, and I can assure you none of them know who Steve Forte, The Gambling Spot or Erdnase are! Cards are 500+ years old you know, and USA is not the only country on earth...
Message: Posted by: splice (Mar 5, 2014 11:12AM)
[quote]
On Mar 5, 2014, joeyfx wrote:
I came up with the method myself, just like in my other releases. Of course knowledgeable people like you instantly know an original source and say: "Not original". And you might be correct.
[/quote]

It's just strange that you came up with two stock controls that look absolutely identical to 2 moves on a DVD which you surely have seen. I get that people sometimes reinvent the wheel, but it's difficult to believe that you just happened to reinvent 2 different moves in the exact same way they were performed within a minute of each other on 52.

Either way, regarding the "you'll never believe me anyway" part, it doesn't matter. It's not about what I believe, I wanted to know what your side of it was. Whatever your answer was/is, once you've said it, that's where it ends for me, you've made your statement. If someone wants to dispute it for whatever reason, they can, but I don't have a dog in this race. Whether or not I personally believe that they're completely original won't matter to anyone.

You believe you came up with these yourself, and thus you didn't have to ask anyone permission, that's that.
Message: Posted by: silverking (Mar 5, 2014 05:12PM)
Here's a couple of very easy to answer questions:

-Have you ever seen "52" Joey?

-Does anybody [i]really[/i] believe that Forte would troll the Gambling Spot looking to steal "new" moves from the very guys who are the first customers in line to buy his books or DVD's?
Message: Posted by: AMcD (Mar 5, 2014 06:16PM)
Who are you talking to Silver?

In case it's me, I didn't and don't stay SF stole anything out of me. I just say I'm the first one to have shown that move publicly years before his "52", it's not in any book or video known (or tell me which one) and yet I didn't see any credit mentioning me.

SF doesn't have to troll the GS, it's not very difficult to meet someone knowing me or having watched my moves. You know, at least in the past, they were many guys close to Steve "trolling" on the Gambling Spot :). My videos are seen by thousands and according my customers list, it looks like I'm known among knowledgeable cardmen! It always surprises me when a top notch card artist contacts me saying "it's years I follow you on such or such place". 9/10 they don't wanna say their nicknames on "such or such" place :-). I don't complain; I hang around with top guys, I exchange with many of them and I meet people I would never had dreamed to know or even exchange a simple email. But I respect them in return, I give them credit when credit is due for instance.
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Mar 5, 2014 06:19PM)
I learned this bottom stock control from Effective Card Magic by Bill Simon in the mid 1950s. DUH!!!

In my opinion, once a move is demonstrated to a group of magicians, on video for general viewing or written about in a book, anyone can learn it and use it. If they want to teach it to others, move power to them. No one owns a move.

Only on the Café and only among magician types does this type cry baby BS come up. Show a hustler a move that he can use, and he will just go use it without any further discussion. It is expected he will use it for his own benefit, that is the reason he was shown the move in the first place.

Further, others come up and develop moves that are similar or identical to something developed by someone else. It happens all the time.

Sometimes I cannot believe the discussions magician types get into among themselves. In all my years around professional gambling, I have NEVER seen anything discussed along these lines.
Message: Posted by: AMcD (Mar 5, 2014 06:23PM)
Cag, I'm 100% with you on that one, no one owns a move! Main reason being there is no way to know whether you are the first one to devise it or not.

I'm just talking about correct crediting or referencing which, for me, is very important.
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Mar 5, 2014 06:28PM)
[quote]
On Mar 5, 2014, AMcD wrote:

I'm just talking about correct crediting or referencing which, for me, is very important.
[/quote]
Well, maybe in the magician community that is the norm. I'm not in that group but have no problem with that concept. But it is not that way with hustlers.
Message: Posted by: AMcD (Mar 5, 2014 06:33PM)
I'm not a Magician either, but I write books. Correct references and credits are important. At least, to me.
Message: Posted by: silverking (Mar 5, 2014 07:34PM)
Arnold, my point (perhaps poorly made) is that two people who spend a sizable number of hours per day with a deck of playing cards in their hands will invariably and independantly "discover" the [i]exact same move[/i].
It's to be expected.
Magicians tend to fight and debate endlessly about it (see Lorayne and Green), but I'm not sure that outside of the magic world anybody even cares when it comes to cards, dice, and any other hustle or scam one comes up with.

I presume your reference to those who may have seen your move here and passed it on is a reference to Mr. Z and/or Jason, as you're aware that they're friends with Forte.
I suppose the thing to do (if it concerns you), is to ask them if they saw your move and then showed that move to Forte.
Their answer then becomes [i]the answer[/i], as this isn't a court of law, we all have to assume people are answering our questions honestly.

Beyond asking a question, and getting an answer, I'm not sure what the last couple of days of posts in this thread are actually about?
Message: Posted by: AMcD (Mar 5, 2014 07:50PM)
Silver,

[quote]
On Mar 5, 2014, silverking wrote:
[...] two people who spend a sizable number of hours per day with a deck of playing cards in their hands will invariably and independantly "discover" the [i]exact same move[/i].
It's to be expected. [...]
[/quote]

Absolutely! And as I said several times, cards exist for centuries. Who could know everything?

[quote]
[...] Magicians tend to fight and debate endlessly about it (see Lorayne and Green) [...]
[/quote]

I personally find those fights ridiculous. I understand it may be frustrating to be stolen, etc. but, as you may imply, it's just cards.

[quote]
I presume your reference to those who may have seen your move here and passed it on is a reference to Mr. Z and/or Jason, as you're aware that they're friends with Forte.
[/quote]

Don't presume anything. I have good contacts with everyone (but Steve Forte), I have no one to name or blame and, frankly, I don't care. In case, as I think, I'm the first one to have "demonstrated" that move, I would just have appreciated to be mentioned, nothing more. Not pride or anything else, just respect. Me, I like, respect and appreciate many people, Steve included. All people knowing me or having read my material (and Steve has my 2 first booklets for instance) know I can spend months just to find an exact reference! I'd just like others to do the same (more especially when I'm not very difficult to find :)). I don't see what could be wrong with it.

The "essence" of the last posts is just to show that nobody's perfect. I don't know if Joey invented the controls we are talking about, only him can tell.
Message: Posted by: JasonEngland (Mar 6, 2014 12:13AM)
The vast majority of the moves on [i]52[/i] came from notes Steve made in the 1980s. I've seen the notes and I can't decipher a single word of them! Steve can read them, but only because he knows what they mean. So if a note says, "Bottom stock control from JP" then he knows that is referring to a move Jimmy Payne showed him 30 years ago. He realized that even he was in danger of forgetting what some of his notes meant so he set about filming them. That footage is what eventually became [i]52[/i].

This means that the vast majority of those moves can be traced to specific friends of his that shared these ideas with him over a period of many decades. Most, if not all of these people are long gone now. Steve would be the first to tell you that he didn't invent many of the moves in [i]52[/i], only adjusted them for his hands and the way he handles cards.

Jason

PS: The bottom stock control that Joey has re-invented doesn't belong to Steve. It was shown to him by Jackie Newton in the 1980s. Did JN "invent" it? Who knows. Perhaps. Or perhaps it was shown to him by some hustler who's name is lost to history.
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (Mar 6, 2014 02:45AM)
[quote]I don't know if Joey invented the controls we are talking about, only him can tell.[/quote]
Then you just have to take my word for it. I came up with the method myself, just like any other move I released on the wire. I avoid the word "invented" because in my opinion that's a strange word to use when talking about cards. However, you can blame me for not spending any time researching for references. I admit that.
I posted two videos about the move in March 2013 -> saw that there was some interest in me making a tutorial -> I made a tutorial.
Message: Posted by: JasonEngland (Mar 6, 2014 03:43AM)
"Invention" can only happen once - so Joey clearly didn't invent that bottom stock control. I don't care if you toil under nothing but gas lamp and campfires and finally emerge from your basement laboratory after 20 years with a burning filament in a glass orb - you still didn't "invent" the lightbulb.

There are times when the moment of invention (and the inventor) are unclear and credit has to be shared, but this isn't one of those times.

I see nothing wrong with Joey teaching this move, as the closest thing to an original "inventor" is dead, but he shouldn't claim it as his own. And maybe he isn't. I haven't seen his Wire video.

Joey - what credits do you give on your video? If none, that's okay (up until now), but you should go back and edit your video to give proper credit to Jackie Newton.

Jason
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (Mar 6, 2014 05:31AM)
[quote]If none, that's okay (up until now), but you should go back and edit your video to give proper credit to Jackie Newton.[/quote]
I wrote a disclaimer, crediting Steve Forte as the one who first demonstrated the move's on video and Jackie Newton as the person who first showed it to him. And the members of the Magic café (which posted in this thread) for pointing me in the right direction.

Thank you.
Message: Posted by: splice (Mar 6, 2014 05:35AM)
[quote]
On Mar 6, 2014, JasonEngland wrote:
PS: The bottom stock control that Joey has re-invented doesn't belong to Steve. It was shown to him by Jackie Newton in the 1980s. Did JN "invent" it? Who knows. Perhaps. Or perhaps it was shown to him by some hustler who's name is lost to history.
[/quote]

Thanks for the info, Jason.
Message: Posted by: Bobbycash (Mar 6, 2014 05:41AM)
Lots of great information, thanks for the reference.
Message: Posted by: tommy (Mar 6, 2014 06:57AM)
Very good Joey.
Message: Posted by: JasonEngland (Mar 6, 2014 01:53PM)
Joey, I've been informed of some other credits regarding the move also, but I think that's an excellent addendum.

Jason
Message: Posted by: kcg5 (Mar 6, 2014 01:57PM)
Jason, are there any plans to release the "rest" of 52? All of his tapes? Maybe that website I had heard talk of?
Message: Posted by: JasonEngland (Mar 7, 2014 01:34AM)
No real plans, but I'd love to do something along those lines.

Jason
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (Mar 7, 2014 06:48AM)
[quote]Joey, I've been informed of some other credits regarding the move also, but I think that's an excellent addendum. [/quote]
If you don't mind, I'd love to hear them.
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (Mar 10, 2014 05:51AM)
New Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f56mZAo7HmY

A few small variations on the "Ping Pong Shift":

1. Shifting only the top slug of the deck, so that the bottom card changes

2. Normal shift.

3. Shift using a cut card.
Message: Posted by: Expertmagician (Mar 10, 2014 11:52PM)
Great video.... !
Thx !
Message: Posted by: Bobbycash (Mar 10, 2014 11:55PM)
I like it Joey
Message: Posted by: Kimura (Mar 11, 2014 06:06PM)
[quote]
On Mar 7, 2014, JasonEngland wrote:
No real plans, but I'd love to do something along those lines.

Jason
[/quote]

Jason, roughly how much footage is involved? Are we talking hundreds of moves here?

Anyway, count me as interested in such a project
Message: Posted by: JasonEngland (Mar 11, 2014 11:18PM)
Kimura,

Steve originally gave me 110 moves on video. We chose 52 of them for the GPS DVDs. The other 58 I still have on video. What I would like to do is to release the other 58 moves at some point along with some explanations. But…it's not up to me. I may have the actual video files, but it's Steve's footage. If he doesn't say yes, then it won't happen.

If it moves forwards, then everyone here will know about it at the appropriate time.

Jason
Message: Posted by: Bobbycash (Mar 12, 2014 03:34AM)
I was going I write if you could keep me informed, but if it ever happens I'll check back here.
Thanks Jason, I hope all is alright in the world of the Vegas card experts.
Message: Posted by: jjsanvert (Mar 12, 2014 04:00AM)
Let's cross the fingers...
Message: Posted by: splice (Mar 12, 2014 05:40AM)
Is there anything we can do to make it more likely that Steve will say yes?
Message: Posted by: Bobbycash (Mar 12, 2014 05:59AM)
Probably;
Make sure it doesn't get shared on the internet on torrent sites. One leak and all the trust is gone. Sad state of magic and gambling literature. I seek to never download or steal online, hence why I am anxious for sadowitz to return my emails...
Message: Posted by: splice (Mar 12, 2014 06:40AM)
Well, that's a given. I haven't done any of that, and it's the same for most people here I hope.
Message: Posted by: Bobbycash (Mar 12, 2014 06:43AM)
Indeed I believe all guys who frequent here and post are fairly trustworthy in that respect. However I think that would be one of the main issues for Steve (but I'll refrain from saying anything further until Jason replies as obviously I can't speak for either of them).
Message: Posted by: tommy (Mar 12, 2014 07:27AM)
People who go on about how straight they are tend to be the one who are the most bent. For example, a screw who seems to be a stickler for the rules in jail is typically the one who is at it. These people have to appear whiter than white as cover for their corrupt activities. Rats often are the very ones who talk about honour and so on. Actually trust in reality is a load of nonsense. One can trust anyone. The only thing that never lies is nature and thus “In God We Trust”.
Message: Posted by: silverking (Mar 12, 2014 09:13AM)
I see a much more comprehensive SF DVD set.

How about a 3 DVD set called [b]"110"[/b] Jason?

SF introduces [i]and[/i] explain 58 new moves on DVD #1.
He then [i]explains[/i] the 52 moves already out on the first half of DVD #2 (good marketing hook is customers have to buy the original DVD's with [b]"52"[/b] on them!).
The second half of DVD #2 is - wait for it - [i]all the art of the dice maker![/i] Featuring a look at a dice makers workbench, and some discussion with a couple of the best that are still with us.

DVD #3 is SF with all his old buddies, sitting around a table (filmed in black and white or moody color) recalling their experiences in and around cards and dice.
Hitherto unknown or underground dice and card anecdotes are discussed, not in detail of course, and with the names changed to protect the guilty.

Of course you're at the table Jason, and I see Mr. Z there too.
Most (if not all) of the guys that are still around that Forte thanks in the front of his books are at the table too, even if they just come by for 5 or 10 minutes in the video to chat with SF.
The end of disc #3 is SF alone, reflecting back on the entire game-protection and gambling/hustling sub-culture and how it was then compared to how it is now, recalling his early days and offering up a couple of scenarios as to what the future may offer.

SF touches on:
*Will technology take over even more than it already has?
*Will there be an underground movement to bring back previously successful and still unknown hustles, with a twist to take down new games?
*Is the extent of advantage play and outright cheating today growing, or shrinking - and then whatever the answer is - why?
*Is the cheater in 2014 essentially "the same" as the cheater from 1974 or 1964 in terms of how he puts bread and milk on the table?

Now [i]that's[/i] a DVD set I'd line up to buy for $100.00+ plus shipping :)
(as I suspect [i]a great many[/i] others would as well).

Anyway, back to reality now.
Message: Posted by: splice (Mar 12, 2014 09:32AM)
Also, it's funded from kickstarter, and one of the rewards includes a personal session with Steve and Jason (and heck, Mr. Z if he's around as well).

I'd buy that for a dollar (or even a bit more!)

It's nice to dream. It's all move monkey stuff, of course.
Message: Posted by: Kimura (Mar 12, 2014 10:00AM)
Sorry, but I am only interested in the DVD if it features the footage of Forte and the Wiz racing in Japan
Message: Posted by: kcg5 (Mar 12, 2014 11:51AM)
$100, easy money. Anything, just give us MORE (Although I doubt we would see Mr. Z, though it would be great). I still see "52" mentioned in threads, just that 13-14 minute sequence was worth buying the set, IMO.

:onehundred:
Message: Posted by: Bobbycash (Mar 12, 2014 03:38PM)
Tommy,
The only reason I mentioned the issue of copying was because being under 23, it seems they majority of people in my demographic do engage in copying and stealing material. That's all.
Would love a big set of DVDs ;)
Message: Posted by: tommy (Mar 12, 2014 06:49PM)
:) Trust everyone, but cut the cards, as the old gabler said.
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (Mar 14, 2014 06:05AM)
New Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcRA9RtBn5Q
Message: Posted by: NFS (Mar 14, 2014 03:23PM)
I appreciate the work that goes into your videos to give it that dramatic/cinematic effect, and maybe it's just me, but I can barely see anything if your videos unless I turn my contrast to 100%, and even then it's still difficult for me to watch. On the video with the ping pong shift I initially thought it was strange you added video editing to pick up a word from the table, but after rewinding it a few times and pressing my face to my monitor I finally saw that it was a cut card with writing on it. Again maybe it's just me but I do not normally have this problem with other videos and DVDs.
Message: Posted by: joeyfx (Mar 15, 2014 06:14AM)
[quote]unless I turn my contrast to 100%, and even then it's still difficult for me to watch.[/quote]
Turning up the contrast actually achieves the exact opposite. "Brightness" should be the right parameter to adjust.
I agree that the last video turned out a bit too dark but I don't see any problem with the latest video. The focus (and the lighting) is on the hands.
Thank you for your feedback though. I'll keep it in mind for future videos.

regards,
Joey
Message: Posted by: NFS (Mar 15, 2014 03:15PM)
I misspoke, it was the brightness I was adjusting. It's funny, I know the difference between the two but it just now occurred to me that I've always been calling it the wrong thing.
Message: Posted by: JFX (Mar 26, 2014 07:29AM)
New Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kug7DtYNiJs

Just a simple way to retain the top few cards.
Message: Posted by: stoneunhinged (Mar 26, 2014 01:42PM)
[quote]
On Mar 12, 2014, silverking wrote:


How about a 3 DVD set called [b]"110"[/b] Jason?


[/quote]

Like.
Message: Posted by: JFX (Mar 26, 2014 02:52PM)
And a video with a little more effort:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MiFkyw3Fss
Message: Posted by: splice (Mar 28, 2014 05:42AM)
I could do without the T11 production style, but otherwise it's looking nice & clean to me. I like it.
Message: Posted by: JFX (Mar 29, 2014 05:56AM)
Thank you, glad you liked it.
Message: Posted by: Bobbycash (Mar 29, 2014 07:16AM)
Joey,
Looks smooth as silk. You really do have a great touch with cards and shuffle work. Keep it up!
Message: Posted by: Bobbycash (Mar 29, 2014 07:16AM)
Oh and seconds ;)
Message: Posted by: JFX (Mar 29, 2014 08:09AM)
Thank you :)
If my hands would be able to perform atleast half decent bottom deals or plaming cards without flashing left and right, I would be happy :D
Message: Posted by: JFX (Mar 31, 2014 05:45AM)
Riffle Stacking:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9ql2zzjXBs

7 players, 4th position gets three jacks.
Filmed from two different angles. In the first and last clip the stack is done in four shuffles and in the second and third clip
the stacking is done in three shuffles.
Tried my best to keep a smooth rhythm but I still think the hesitation on the drops is too obvious.
Message: Posted by: jjsanvert (Apr 1, 2014 03:31AM)
Still very nice
Message: Posted by: JFX (Apr 1, 2014 09:04AM)
Thank you :)

Some Second Deals/Drills:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6DBNoA_JEs

No worries if some of you are annoyed by me spamming so many videos. That's the last one till october :)
Message: Posted by: jjsanvert (Apr 1, 2014 10:41AM)
It is not annoying - and it is great.
Message: Posted by: JFX (Aug 8, 2014 06:08AM)
Thought I'd share my new video with you guys:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4bcXwNF2wg
Message: Posted by: slim23 (Aug 8, 2014 11:58AM)
Very nice!
Always a pleasure of admiring your videos!

Slim
Message: Posted by: JFX (Aug 8, 2014 01:57PM)
Thank you for the kind words Slim.
Message: Posted by: JFX (Aug 15, 2014 02:19PM)
This time with a white bordered deck:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56TL2qMB7WE
Message: Posted by: Bobbycash (Aug 16, 2014 02:37AM)
Your seconds are awesome to watch, I thoroughly enjoyed the outjogged second, reminded me of something from 52.
Still working out the one handed bottom from it myself.
P.S. Love the aristocrats
Message: Posted by: JFX (Aug 16, 2014 03:23AM)
Thank you. That one is from Marlo (Seconds, Centers and Bottoms).
Message: Posted by: Bobbycash (Aug 16, 2014 03:43AM)
Ha, I'll look it up tomorrow. Cheers Joey for the reference
Message: Posted by: JFX (Aug 16, 2014 04:50AM)
You're welcome. I appreciate the support!
Message: Posted by: The Square-Faced Kid (Aug 21, 2014 03:04PM)
Really enjoyed the video of your seconds, Joey. Nicely graded, too.

T S-F K
Message: Posted by: JFX (Aug 22, 2014 10:12AM)
Another Second Deal video with a little bit more effort on the filming/editing side:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rswSw5ox3XQ
Message: Posted by: tomcards (Aug 28, 2014 11:34AM)
Joey,

Please read the PM that I sent you.


Thanks,

Tom Frame
Message: Posted by: JFX (Aug 28, 2014 11:42AM)
I didn't get a PM Tom. Please send it again to this account.
Message: Posted by: tomcards (Aug 28, 2014 01:44PM)
I sent the message again.

Tom
Message: Posted by: JFX (Sep 1, 2014 02:45AM)
I bought the "Nash Multiple Shift" by theory 11 yesterday and I liked the CCTV effect they used in the trailer and the titles.
So I tried to re-create the effect on some old footage of mine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpYJbX_aOi8
Message: Posted by: Bobbycash (Sep 1, 2014 03:46AM)
On a side note, the Nash Multiple Shift vid is great! I hope Jason and Johnny pursue the project.
Message: Posted by: JFX (Sep 1, 2014 01:28PM)
I completly agree Bobbycash. Seems like they got a new editor. Loved the production of this one.
Message: Posted by: JFX (Sep 15, 2014 07:08AM)
New Video:

"The Animated Erdnase"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBkiNv4LTv4

Not much technique to see here. Mainly an experimental video. I did a video like this
about four years ago but was never really satisfied with how it turned out.
Message: Posted by: Kabbalah (Sep 15, 2014 07:26AM)
[quote]On Sep 15, 2014, JFX wrote:
New Video:

"The Animated Erdnase"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBkiNv4LTv4

Not much technique to see here. Mainly an experimental video. I did a video like this
about four years ago but was never really satisfied with how it turned out. [/quote]

Very cool!
Message: Posted by: Gerry Hennessey (Sep 15, 2014 09:44AM)
Beautifully done. Bravo!
Message: Posted by: slim23 (Sep 18, 2014 01:10PM)
Nice!
I had a little something to the facsimile erdnase with nothing but the image!

Good idea,

Slim
Message: Posted by: slim23 (Sep 18, 2014 01:11PM)
...It adds a little something...

Sorry!

Slim
Message: Posted by: JFX (Sep 18, 2014 01:42PM)
Thank you for the comments and kind words. It's a little embarrassing but if you are curious about my original video, here is it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5rqNDXHFLU
Message: Posted by: silverking (Sep 18, 2014 02:08PM)
Slim, for clarity, that's not the facsimile Erdnase Joey uses in his video, it's the diary/workbook published by John Bodine and Theron Schaub.
Message: Posted by: JFX (Sep 18, 2014 02:20PM)
Yes, thank you for clarifying silverking. The bucks lable it as "The Erdnase Journal". It's this one right here:

http://shop.dananddave.com/the-erdnase-journal.html


I was a little disappointed that it didn't have the page numbers. Quality of the paper and the binding is superb though.
Message: Posted by: AMcD (Sep 18, 2014 02:35PM)
Joey, you rock! I even think you kick the ass of many professionals in terms of video editing.

Well done.
Message: Posted by: slim23 (Sep 20, 2014 04:14PM)
Thanks.

Slim
Message: Posted by: JFX (Oct 3, 2014 12:33PM)
New Video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXEz6h42sDk
Message: Posted by: Kabbalah (Oct 3, 2014 05:14PM)
[quote]On Oct 3, 2014, JFX wrote:
New Video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXEz6h42sDk [/quote]

Once again, excellent!
Message: Posted by: JFX (Oct 10, 2014 10:14AM)
Thank you.

New Video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfGjOaR2llg
(Gene Maze Bottom Deal)
Message: Posted by: JFX (Oct 12, 2014 06:48AM)
And another Bottom Deal video, this time from a Mechanics Grip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RItBCp6eUhw

Joey
Message: Posted by: AMcD (Oct 16, 2014 09:31PM)
I'd like to comment but I find the videos too jerky, thus it's hard to have a fair opinion (or maybe it's my computer?)

Anyway, I admire your courage as we are down to two only to show videos here now.
Message: Posted by: Bobbycash (Oct 17, 2014 12:26AM)
I back up Arnold on that, really good stuff Joey. Congrats on the sponsorship as well!
Message: Posted by: Bobbycash (Oct 17, 2014 03:18AM)
[quote]On Oct 17, 2014, Bobbycash wrote:
I back up Arnold on that, really good stuff Joey. Congrats on the sponsorship as well! [/quote]
I'll try and help the situation, it's not great but at least you'll get that up to three people
http://youtu.be/5KzKIK5kAj8
Message: Posted by: JFX (Oct 26, 2014 09:50AM)
@AMcD:

Here is the full video. I hope this one runs smoothly for you. I don't have a problem with my machine :/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXA8MpM0CuQ

Joey
Message: Posted by: Bobbycash (Oct 26, 2014 11:50PM)
Looks good Joey, there was not a lot of finger movement and the thumb moves well!
Random question, what type of cards did uou use? I couldn't recognize the back design
Message: Posted by: jjsanvert (Oct 27, 2014 01:34AM)
Very nice. The mecanic grip is definitly more deceptive (and natural) than the Erdnase grip we see so often.
Message: Posted by: JFX (Oct 27, 2014 09:31AM)
Thanks Bobby and Jean-Jacques :)

@Bobbycash:
"Phoenix Deck". They were designed by a german magician (maybe they are even produced here in germany, but I don't know for sure) and apparently they are quite popular among german magicians. They feel like regular bikes. Nothing special really. I like the design though.

Joey
Message: Posted by: AMcD (Oct 27, 2014 10:47PM)
Thanks.

Very good, very good.

JJS is right. When I see that Erdnase Grip... Anyway!
Message: Posted by: Bobbycash (Oct 27, 2014 10:49PM)
Cheers Joey,
I've read about them and they're meant to have some nice inbuilt properties. Great video as always.
Message: Posted by: JFX (Oct 28, 2014 11:47AM)
[quote]I've read about them and they're meant to have some nice inbuilt properties.[/quote]
I only have the standard deck. It has a subtle one-way design but no other markings. The creator sells a fully marked deck
as far as I know but I don't know anything about the system behind it.

Thanks for the kind words :)
Message: Posted by: JFX (Dec 24, 2014 08:32AM)
New Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAVaAlRuVYM

A fun Riffle Stacking bit.
Message: Posted by: JFX (Dec 25, 2014 10:24AM)
New Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fCWs84IkmU
Message: Posted by: FnB (Dec 25, 2014 09:13PM)
I like the control at the end of both clip.. After a first look it's not obvious at all!
Message: Posted by: Bobbycash (Dec 26, 2014 05:02AM)
Joey I love that final control as well.
Very convincing
Message: Posted by: AMcD (Jan 6, 2015 11:04PM)
Good videos Joey.

Now that you have reached a good level, don't you think you could start dealing seconds without that lame mechanics grip :P?
Message: Posted by: JFX (Jan 8, 2015 07:42AM)
Please point me in the right direction!
Message: Posted by: AMcD (Jan 8, 2015 11:10AM)
About the strike method, Charlie Miller. About the push-off, there's not that much either. Hugard and Braue for instance, or my videos.
Message: Posted by: Kabbalah (Jan 8, 2015 04:03PM)
A good description of the Charlie Miller second deal can be found in Harry Riser's [i]Secrets of an Escamoteur[/i], pp. 29-32.
Message: Posted by: JFX (Jan 9, 2015 12:51PM)
Thanks for the hint/source @AMcD and Kabbalah. Looks like the book isn't that easy to find but I'll keep my eyes open :)
Thanks again for the help!
Message: Posted by: AMcD (Jan 9, 2015 08:35PM)
There are very few references about dealing seconds without the mechanic's grip. In fact, if some of you have any, it would be appreciated.

I know "Expert Card Technique", Hugard & Braue and "Ghostly Seconds" by Vynn Boyar. Maybe someone could ask on the Workers section?
Message: Posted by: Bobbycash (Jan 9, 2015 08:38PM)
Fred Robinson and Roy Walton as well have references :)
Message: Posted by: AMcD (Jan 9, 2015 09:02PM)
As there are 127,256,256 references with Roy Walton, if you could be a little bit more explicit...
Message: Posted by: Bobbycash (Jan 9, 2015 09:09PM)
Complete Walton Volume 1, p.201
Message: Posted by: AMcD (Jan 9, 2015 09:13PM)
Cheers
Message: Posted by: AMcD (Jan 9, 2015 09:21PM)
OK, just checked. Roy's explanation (very poor drawings!) is for the Strike method. As it is for Charlie Miller and Vynn Boyar.
Message: Posted by: Bobbycash (Jan 9, 2015 10:56PM)
Arnold you are the only person I've seen do an open/full grip push off second :)
Message: Posted by: AMcD (Jan 9, 2015 11:32PM)
I have to say I'm not sure having seen many people doing it :(. Maybe two guys.
Message: Posted by: Artie Fufkin (Jan 10, 2015 09:01AM)
I've never understood all the hand wringing about using the mechanics grip.
A huge number of card players don't even know what it is, and an equally huge number of card players [i]who've never dealt a second in their lives[/i] hold the deck in a mechanics grip because it feels natural to them.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/27/brick-mortar/dealer-mechanics-grip-857597/
Message: Posted by: AMcD (Jan 10, 2015 06:24PM)
@Artie

Except casino dealers (and Magicians, of course), I've never seen anyone using that grip in my games, tourneys, private games, etc. In fact, I wasn't aware about it before opening a book about card Magic! Where are you from, USA? Thanks for the link.
Message: Posted by: JFX (Feb 24, 2015 11:22AM)
New Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXYw5E9o-NU
Message: Posted by: AMcD (Feb 24, 2015 07:22PM)
Very nice.

As you know I like you well, you will accept a tiny bit of criticism. Your "key card" is a bit too much visible :). Other than that, very good.

Keep going that way young man!
Message: Posted by: JFX (Feb 25, 2015 01:29AM)
Your thoughts are always appreciated Arnold. I found those Steamboats (Dan&Dave Re-Prints) quite difficult to handle :/
Message: Posted by: FnB (Feb 25, 2015 07:23AM)
I thought I understood it but after one try it's obvious I didn't.. :P Need some more try at it, very nice!
Message: Posted by: JFX (Feb 25, 2015 08:31AM)
@FnB: Yes, the method is not as obvious as it looks at first glance :D
Appreciate the kind words!
Message: Posted by: jjsanvert (Mar 2, 2015 02:31AM)
Always very nice to Watch.
Message: Posted by: JFX (Mar 13, 2015 03:07AM)
Thank you jjsanvert :)

Update on my Bottom Deal:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCLF0aXwbRI
Message: Posted by: jjsanvert (Mar 13, 2015 03:24AM)
As I said... great.
Message: Posted by: tegib (Mar 13, 2015 04:34AM)
Very nice bottom deal. Finger flash is kept to a minimal.
Message: Posted by: slim23 (Mar 15, 2015 10:38PM)
Nice!
Message: Posted by: JFX (Apr 12, 2015 02:16PM)
Thank you for the kind words :)

Although a little older, I thought you might enjoy the second sequence in this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_nIuk-UWRk
Message: Posted by: JFX (May 11, 2016 10:16AM)
New Video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_fZZtb7-lo
Message: Posted by: Artie Fufkin (May 11, 2016 10:55AM)
Well done as always Joey.

Refreshingly, it's flawless.

Not a negative in demos, but all folks might be welcome to "note" is that you're [i]so good[/i], you entertain the "Forte" effect of appearing to [i]actually know what you're doing with a deck of cards[/i]!
Message: Posted by: Bobbycash (May 11, 2016 07:10PM)
Nice Joey,
Happy to admit that in a few of those combinations I'm fooled! Will have to watch them again, very well done.
Message: Posted by: jjsanvert (May 12, 2016 02:04AM)
Very nice as always!
Message: Posted by: JFX (May 26, 2016 05:49AM)
Thank you for the kind words guys!

New one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ut5JBi2MdRE
(Push through)
Message: Posted by: JFX (May 27, 2016 02:45AM)
And another one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YsNlvEQABk
(Bottom Deal)
Message: Posted by: Artie Fufkin (May 29, 2016 02:18PM)
Both excellent Joey.

...BUT, I must give a shout out to your cinematography chops, which are progressing as fast, if not faster than your actual card handling skills!

No doubt that yours are the best shot demo reels I've seen.
Message: Posted by: JFX (May 30, 2016 08:08AM)
Thank you Artie :)

I was asked by kcg5 about the sound of my bottom deal. So here is a version with audio:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meRE0_TuiuQ
Message: Posted by: FnB (May 31, 2016 06:12PM)
What sound he was talking about? Of coure you didn't deal a single bottom card. OH CRAP!
That is brutal for the ones that are still trying :bawl: . Feel bad for them Joey.
Jokes apart, Nice One!!
Message: Posted by: JFX (Sep 14, 2016 03:09AM)
New Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVk7l0cvQrk
Message: Posted by: AMcD (Sep 14, 2016 03:46AM)
Not bad. Looks like you now have the right rhythm. Nice job.
Message: Posted by: Bobbycash (Sep 14, 2016 04:51AM)
I can see Arnold's influence in that video Joey. Nice!
Message: Posted by: JFX (Sep 14, 2016 05:15AM)
Thank you AMcD and Bobby!
[quote]Looks like you now have the right rhythm[/quote]
First shuffle (two under one/two on top) feels ok but I still hesitate quite a lot
on the second one (two under three/two on top).
Message: Posted by: MarcoLostSomething (Sep 14, 2016 06:50AM)
Very very well done
Message: Posted by: JFX (Sep 15, 2016 05:38AM)
Thank you Marco!

New Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq9unvNW-p8
(Top stock control and some regular riffle stacking)
Message: Posted by: KentuckySlim (Sep 19, 2016 02:40PM)
Excellent as always!
Thanks for posting these, your videos always inspire me to get out the cards and work harder on my own handling!
Message: Posted by: JFX (Sep 22, 2016 01:42AM)
[QUOTE]Thanks for posting these, your videos always inspire me to get out the cards and work harder on my own handling! [/QUOTE]
Thank you :) Nice to hear that my videos are a source of inspiration to some!

My Greek Deal:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dwjCgz1Pbs
Message: Posted by: JFX (Oct 7, 2016 12:11PM)
Second Deals:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJ2r6fq63Dc
Message: Posted by: tommy (Oct 7, 2016 03:36PM)
LANCEY
Light all right for you?

SHOOTER
Two hundred watt bulb.

KID
Fine, excellent. Okay with you?

LANCEY
Sure, sure. Shooter's set us up just
great.
Message: Posted by: MarcoLostSomething (Oct 7, 2016 04:37PM)
I've never trained enough the seconds... and I'm stubbornly practicing the Erdnase methods.
I see you're using different grips, one of them is the Master Second of Scott? I'm asking because I see you used the pushoff.
The deal, needless to say, looks great!
Message: Posted by: JFX (Oct 7, 2016 11:32PM)
[QUOTE]I see you're using different grips, one of them is the Master Second of Scott? [/QUOTE]
It's a full grip.
Except for the first clip, all of the deals are push offs. Thank you Marco!
Message: Posted by: jjsanvert (Oct 8, 2016 03:55AM)
Perfect!!
Message: Posted by: Bobbycash (Oct 8, 2016 03:57AM)
Excellent as always Joey, you have a phenomenal touch with the pasteboards.
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Oct 8, 2016 01:53PM)
[quote]On Oct 8, 2016, Bobbycash wrote:
Excellent as always Joey, you have a phenomenal touch with the pasteboards. [/quote]

I could be mistaken, but isn't this second deal video link referred to above part of a Steve Forte demonstration performed by Steve Forte?

Isn't it Forte's voice also on the narration?

Here is the link again:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJ2r6fq63Dc
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Oct 8, 2016 02:43PM)
Just to avoid ambiguity, in my post immediately above I was referring to this post:

[quote]On Oct 7, 2016, JFX wrote:
Second Deals:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJ2r6fq63Dc [/quote]

JFX is a skillful card table manipulator so my observation is not meant to detract from his demo work on this long thread. I just did not understand what appears to be the work of Steve Forte being shown.

Not really important though. Just an observation.
Message: Posted by: Artie Fufkin (Oct 8, 2016 04:27PM)
Well ... those don't look at all like Forte's hands, but they sure do look a lot like Joey's hands!

I would posit that what Joey has done (considering his [i]far above average skill at filmmaking[/i] as well as advanced skills with playing cards), is he has put the [i]soundtrack[/i] from the Forte DVD over top of a [i]video performance of his own hands[/i].

What this demonstrates (I believe) is that Joey is doing exactly what Forte was doing on the DVD (guided by Fortes voiceover narration), and in the process Joey is sharing his chops by demonstrating what are essentially flawless seconds.

I may be wrong of course - but I doubt it :)
Message: Posted by: tommy (Oct 9, 2016 01:42PM)
All but the dim could see that. :)
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Oct 9, 2016 02:20PM)
Yup - I tipped my hole card that I am dim. :nod:

I don't know how I made all this money in gambling over the years - and I am not even good enough to be a magician doing demos.

Must have been lucky. Yup...that's it...must have been lucky. :rolleyes:
Message: Posted by: tommy (Oct 9, 2016 04:02PM)
My eyes are dim I can-not see.
I have not got my specs with me.
Message: Posted by: JFX (Oct 10, 2016 12:21AM)
Yes, Artie is right!

The video shows me. The audio parts of Steve Forte are taken from a TV performance of him.
Sorry for any confusion.

Joey
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Oct 10, 2016 12:58PM)
[quote]On Oct 10, 2016, JFX wrote:
Yes, Artie is right!

The video shows me. The audio parts of Steve Forte are taken from a TV performance of him.

Sorry for any confusion.

Joey [/quote]

Okay, no problem. Thanks for the clarification. I really don't watch many demos but I have seen Forte do his card work a few times and your work pretty much mimics his and with the voice override I thought it might be Forte. However in my defense, as tommy very perceptively pointed out, only the "dim" (when it comes to gambling methods, moves and demos) would not have seen the difference. I plead guilty to that. :eek:

I note that when it comes to performing a myriad of demos moves, Forte is a good role model and you evidently spent a lot of time watching him and imitating his methods. Speed, flash and pizzazz and you perform the moves cleanly and skillfully.

Question: Where do you find the time to master these moves, perfect your film making skills and still work on your PhD thesis?

Finally, out of curiosity, can you do a bottom deal from the square john full grip? Totally unnecessary for a demonstrator, but just curious. :cool:
Message: Posted by: JFX (Oct 10, 2016 01:28PM)
[QUOTE]Okay, no problem. Thanks for the clarification. I really don't watch many demos but I have seen Forte do his card work a few times and your work pretty much mimics his and with the voice override I thought it might be Forte.[/QUOTE]
No worries. I take that as a compliment.

[QUOTE]Question: Where do you find the time to master these moves, perfect your film making skills and still work on your PhD thesis?[/QUOTE]
Well as far as the film making part goes: I've been interested in film making since I was like 13 years old. Over the years I found my own workflow that works best for me and I still stick to it. Sadly, I rarely try out new things nowadays. Mainly because film making is quite an expensive hobby and I kind of hit my limit budget wise. Therefore I've been using the same set up for a couple years now. So this part doesn't take that much time.

Mastering the moves isn't that much of a deal either because I'm not in a hurry. I limit myself to a couple of techniques and stick with them for years before I start to tackle a new move. I practice the moves mainly for my own entertainment so I can take all the time I want.

[QUOTE]Finally, out of curiosity, can you do a bottom deal from the square john full grip? Totally unnecessary for a demonstrator, but just curious. Smile[/QUOTE]
Nope I can't. But it sounds like quite a challenge. I put it on my list!
Message: Posted by: JFX (Oct 17, 2016 02:10PM)
New Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0u8xJO1rhc
Message: Posted by: foolsnobody (Oct 19, 2016 01:11AM)
I enjoy this forum a lot even though I don't do any of this kind of stuff at all now that I have lost sensitivity in my fingers. I never was that great and I am 70 years old now. But Joey KNOCKS ME OUT. No little hitches or breaks in tempo whatsoever. I am sure if he *does* break tempo it is done in a congruent way and always intentionally, at times he chooses. Did I mention I am impressed? Thanks for sharing, Joey.
Message: Posted by: JFX (Oct 19, 2016 04:38AM)
Thank you for the kind words. Much appreciated!

[QUOTE] I am sure if he *does* break tempo it is done in a congruent way and always intentionally, at times he chooses.[/QUOTE]
I wish that I could say that my hesitation during riffle stacking is intentionally ...
Message: Posted by: tommy (Oct 20, 2016 07:46AM)
Your wish is my command! Go to the card table and don’t hesitate, because there it really does not matter if you miss.
Message: Posted by: JFX (Oct 21, 2016 10:20AM)
[QUOTE]Your wish is my command! Go to the card table and don’t hesitate, because there it really does not matter if you miss.[/QUOTE]
Sorry but I'm not sure if I understood your comment correctly.

New Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFgJ2_gLvz8
Message: Posted by: tommy (Oct 21, 2016 05:23PM)
Only magicians need the trick to succeed every time and therefore they tend to be must careful and hesitant when staking to make sure of getting it right.

Whereas the cardsharp knows if he misses the stack nobody is the wiser. If he misses then he simply plays his hand. The cardsharp therefore then relaxes and riffle stacks fast and without hesitation. It is good if he hits but not bad if he misses. It is a shot to nothing more or less.

That which makes people hesitant is the fear of failing.
Message: Posted by: Artie Fufkin (Oct 21, 2016 10:49PM)
That's some good insight right there tommy, and rates with the best bits of "theory" presented here over the years.
Message: Posted by: JFX (Oct 22, 2016 12:31AM)
[QUOTE]Only magicians need the trick to succeed every time and therefore they tend to be must careful and hesitant when staking to make sure of getting it right.

Whereas the cardsharp knows if he misses the stack nobody is the wiser. If he misses then he simply plays his hand. The cardsharp therefore then relaxes and riffle stacks fast and without hesitation. It is good if he hits but not bad if he misses. It is a shot to nothing more or less.

That which makes people hesitant is the fear of failing.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for elaborating tommy. I get your point now. It is really some great advice!
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Oct 22, 2016 01:02AM)
[quote]On Oct 21, 2016, tommy wrote:

Only magicians need the trick to succeed every time... Whereas the cardsharp knows if he misses the stack nobody is the wiser. If he misses then he simply plays his hand...It is good if he hits but not bad if he misses. It is a shot to nothing more or less.

That which makes people hesitant is the fear of failing. [/quote]

Whoa, Whoa. Wait a minute...

Okay...that may apply to missing when stacking but does this also apply if the cardsharp misses on his bottom deal or second deal and ends up with a "hanger?" How about if he drops the deck when bringing in a cooler and it splatters all over the floor?...And...is the fear of failing the same as the fear of getting caught and getting your head busted?

Oh, just joking. Actually it was a good point...but maybe a little too deep for me. :lol:
Message: Posted by: JasonEngland (Oct 23, 2016 01:12AM)
[quote]On Oct 21, 2016, tommy wrote:
Only magicians need the trick to succeed every time and therefore they tend to be must careful and hesitant when staking to make sure of getting it right.

Whereas the cardsharp knows if he misses the stack nobody is the wiser. If he misses then he simply plays his hand. The cardsharp therefore then relaxes and riffle stacks fast and without hesitation. It is good if he hits but not bad if he misses. It is a shot to nothing more or less.

That which makes people hesitant is the fear of failing. [/quote]

This is only applicable in some situations and not applicable in others. If I'm a single-O poker cheater that can "check my work" when I see my own hand it's one thing. But what if you're a cheating blackjack dealer trying to run up a hand for a partner? And he's already put down that table maximum bet? Now you'd better be sure that your run-up is on the money (or you'll be out of money).

The same goes for ringing in a cooler - better be sure that false shuffle is right - or you might wind up giving the sucker his good hand but destroying your partner's better hand. Seen it happen.

Jason
Message: Posted by: tommy (Oct 23, 2016 06:35AM)
Even after the stacking has gone awry, all is not lost of course. The failed attempt may still leave the sharps with inside info; of the location of them there valued cards etcetera.

No, you can't always get what you want
You can't always get what you want
You can't always get what you want
But if you try sometime you find
You get what you need

:)
Message: Posted by: JFX (Oct 25, 2016 06:07AM)
I realized that this thread is already five years old. Just wanted to thank you guys for giving me a great amount of advice over the years!
Helped (and still does) me a lot.

New Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRDN_8AvI7c

My take on the classic
- Blind Riffle I. To Retain The Top Stock
- Blind Cut III. To Retain the Top Stock
- Blind Cut I. To Retain Bottom Stock
Message: Posted by: Artie Fufkin (Oct 25, 2016 09:18AM)
Your progress in these past five years, and your determination to stick with the craft has been impressive Joey!

Your chops are clearly top notch, and your desire to share your accomplishments are undertaken humbly and with class!
Message: Posted by: AMcD (Oct 25, 2016 09:26AM)
It's because he has the good teachers. How sad they're not "pros".
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Oct 25, 2016 09:28AM)
Excellent work Joey and exceptional dedication. Your accomplishments are an inspiration to many on this BB.

Five years. Where does the time go?
Message: Posted by: JFX (Oct 25, 2016 10:31AM)
[QUOTE]It's because he has the good teachers. How sad they're not "pros".[/QUOTE]
You're most definitely a pro in many areas.
Message: Posted by: JFX (Oct 28, 2016 01:47AM)
New Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSIlTzy_Kqs
(Two different push off second deals)
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Oct 28, 2016 01:00PM)
Very skillful demonstration JFX and you certainly have the hands and dedication to master these moves, in the context in which you are showing them, in a highly proficient manner. And that is really all you need...but...are you open to an additional challenge...

Two things you might want to play with and I would not suggest this if you were just a run of the mill demo guy.

In actual money games nowadays, paper playing cards in pristine demo condition are not the norm. Today almost all money games, at least poker games, are dealt with bridge sized cards with white borders. (In fact, years ago when playing Gin with Stuey Ungar, he would not play [i]unless[/i] plastic cards were used.)

So...have you ever tried to perform your second and bottom deal (bottoms possibly without the Erdnase Grip which is just good for demos), with these type plastic cards because that is a more realistic protocol, or at least doing so for your own amusement?

Secondly, smoothly and continuously pitching the cards a short distance away into a heap is just fine for what you are doing, or with your bottom deal "placing" the cards in individual hands in close proximity to your body. However, in an actual game the conditions are somewhat different...sometimes considerably different.

On a regulation poker table, either round or elongated, it is very difficult to reach each player at different positions and distances by holding the cards close to one's body. One usually cannot smoothly deal each card off the deck continuously and to different distances that way. Usually one must reach to the front and to either side, and also extend one's hands to get to each player. Also, the smooth uninterrupted rhythm is usually broken up as you go around the table, a slight pause here or there as the hands are re-positioned a little to reach the next player. If one doesn't do that, the cards may flash, bounce or not land where you want them to.

I recall years ago I used to practice that way because there were chips, drinking glasses, maybe a bottle of booze on the table (in private games) and one had to get around these impediments. Of course, in casino type professional games many impediments are not allowed but still the distances are not pristine and one has to reach, extend, pause and so on. Also, in high stakes private games, either dealt by the players or more likely nowadays by a "hired" center dealer, you often will see drinking glasses, a wallet, paper money and so on sitting on the table by the player and you have to deal over or to the side of that.

By mentioning these things I am not in any way criticizing your demonstration work. It is excellent but thought you might want to play with these ideas for your own amusement.

Finally, I suggest for those who are very skillful demonstrators, like Joey, AMcD, Jason and also others on this BB that have not shown their work, I don't think calling them "demo" guys really does justice to their ability and accomplishment. Therefore I suggest new terminology for the "elite" of the demo world. For the truly skillful I suggest we use the term "demologist" and the art they practice "demology," giving it more of a professional air. In fact, I am thinking of contacting the Merriam Webster Company to suggest they add this updated terminology to the next addition of their dictionary.

Just a suggestion...and the world keep spinning and so do I...
Message: Posted by: JFX (Oct 28, 2016 01:35PM)
Cag,

I appreciated your thoughts alot. Thanks for the input.

[QUOTE] Today almost all money games, at least poker games, are dealt with bridge sized cards with white borders. (In fact, years ago when playing Gin with Stuey Ungar, he would not play unless plastic cards were used.) [/QUOTE]
I was aware that it is common to use plastic cards instead of paper cards. But I wasn't aware of the fact that bridge sized cards are used for poker. Is there any reason for that?
Regardless, the main reason I don't use plastic cards for the demos (and for my practice routine) is that I don't possess any. However, it is definitely on my list. The way I practice nowadays is by using a brand new deck, a completly worn out deck and a fairly broken in deck. I found that the condition of the deck plays a huge role for some of the moves I do, so I try to use decks in different conditions and from different brands. I will definitely add plastic cards once I got around to buy some.

[QUOTE](bottoms possibly without the Erdnase Grip which is just good for demos)[/QUOTE]
Would you mind to elaborate a bit more on that part? Particularly why the (modified) Erdnase Grip is just good for demos? I've seen Forte use the Grip a lot and refering to a quite old post from Gambling Spot, it was mentioned that the modified Erdnase Grip is actually Forte's favourite grip to use.

[QUOTE]Secondly, smoothly and continuously pitching the cards a short distance away into a heap is just fine for what you are doing, or with your bottom deal "placing" the cards in individual hands in close proximity to your body. However, in an actual game the conditions are somewhat different...sometimes considerably different. [/QUOTE]
This has been mentioned to me before. I believe it was silverking who told me the exact same thing (actually in this thread). The main problem is that I have only a limited amount of space. So unfortunately I simply got not enough space for a large table or a full size poker table. I'm aware of the fact that things are quite different in reality though. What I am doing however is to practice dealing and shuffling while standing. I usually place a large book in front of me to act like the chip tray. That way I'm forced to shuffle with the cards a bit more away from me. That already makes things somewhat more difficult.

[QUOTE]By mentioning these things I am not in any way criticizing your demonstration work. It is excellent but thought you might want to play with these ideas for your own amusement. [/QUOTE]
No worries, I'm always happy to get advice and to apply it whenever I can. I've never seen a casino from the inside (and actually not even from the outside) so my "knowledge" in that regards comes mainly from reading through the old posts on this forum. So I'm more than grateful for any information given by guys like you.
Message: Posted by: AMcD (Oct 28, 2016 03:11PM)
Cag, I play cards for several decades, I never ran across bridge sized cards. Maybe it's US related? Casino related?

Since 2002-2003 I'd say, it's hard to find a place not using plastic cards (brands vary a lot), but poker size. I'm talking about France, Italy, Spain or UK, countries I know the most.

Anyone has a different experience?
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Oct 28, 2016 04:37PM)
[quote]On Oct 28, 2016, AMcD wrote:

Cag, I play cards for several decades, I never ran across bridge sized cards. Maybe it's US related? Casino related?

[/quote]

As far back as I can remember, both in the California, New Jersey, and Nevada card rooms, even back in my Gardena days, plastic bridge sized cards were standard, usually Kem brand cards. If you watch the big US based tournaments on TV, like WSOP and other tournaments, you will see they use plastic bridge sized cards.

Why that is I don't know. Perhaps because bridge sizde cards are easier for the dealer and players to handle, but that is just a guess on my part. What they use in Europe, our European members would know better than I and perhaps some could post as to what is used in their area.

Be curious what size and brand of cards tommy uses in his card room or has seen in his area.
Message: Posted by: tommy (Oct 28, 2016 04:38PM)
No bridge sized cards are standard for poker in casinos here Arnold.

And only a flat would call himself a professional; those who know call themselves mere hobbyists.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/National/Aussie-poker-champ-gets-lucky-again/2005/12/21/1135032075445.html
Message: Posted by: MarcoLostSomething (Oct 28, 2016 05:13PM)
@AMcD:
in Italy we're using Modiano, or Dal Negro 99.9% of any game (that is not played at the bar tables). The fun fact is that I've never payed attention to that detail but yes, they are all plastics (and poker size).

@Joey:
I like the work you putted on the second deal! As always your practice provides much motivation, at least for me. It's never boring to watch, and most of all stresses the importance of hard work to get results, and I'm hoping you are happy of that too.
On the same pace, I've found that grip particularly compelling, and I started to try that since some previous video of yours from some week ago.
Anyway my own method is purely based on my observation of the grip, so I've got a lot work to do for someone who dealt seconds (pushoff) just from the Erdnase's grip.

I'll open my own thread not to go off-topic here, but I think that grip is worth studying, I've noticed it's used quite a lot amongs people playing cards. Again, it's a detail that I've never payed attention to, so used to see mechanics' grip and Erdnase's, I'll put some work into that.

Will you work on the strike too?
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Oct 28, 2016 05:19PM)
[quote]On Oct 28, 2016, JFX wrote:

I was aware that it is common to use plastic cards instead of paper cards. But I wasn't aware of the fact that bridge sized cards are used for poker. Is there any reason for that? [/quote]

As I mentioned above, perhaps the reason plastic bridge sized cards are used universally in the casino cards room in the US is maybe they are easier to handle for the players and dealer. Tommy wrote that bridge sized cards are standard in the casino card rooms in England. What they use in Germany, France or other countries, I don't know. But as I said, if you watch the US based tournaments, you will see bridge sized cards being used.

[quote]...the main reason I don't use plastic cards for the demos (and for my practice routine) is that I don't possess any. However, it is definitely on my list...[/quote]

You definitely should pick up a deck or two. I think you will be intrigued by the difference in feel and handling. When I first started working with plastics, they kept spurting and slipping out or my hands and landing on the floor.

[quote]...Particularly why the (modified) Erdnase Grip is just good for demos? I've seen Forte use the Grip a lot and referring to a quite old post from Gambling Spot, it was mentioned that the modified Erdnase Grip is actually Forte's favourite grip to use...[/quote]

Professional dealers use the Mechanic's Grip or modified Mechanic's Grip in the hand held casino card games, including poker. None that I have seen use the Erdnase Grip.

Certainly in private games, the Erdnase Grip would be a "heat score" among reasonably sophisticated players. Very few players would naturally hold cards like that. If someone is looking to deal bottoms in a private game, his first rule would be not to attract attention or created suspicion. The Erdnase Grip would wake the dead in many games, but is a good grip for demos.

Forte uses it because he is essentially a "demologist" (demonstrator) and the grip produces a fairly deceptive bottom deal with good cover. But once again, it will bring scrutiny and heat. Even the Mechanic's Grip will bring suspicion in many private games.

[quote]...I've never seen a casino from the inside (and actually not even from the outside) so my "knowledge" in that regards comes mainly from reading through the old posts on this forum. So I'm more than grateful for any information given by guys like you...[/quote]

Some day you will not doubt get to see a casino or professional poker game in action. I'm sure it will prove to be interesting and helpful in your mastery of demo work.
Message: Posted by: Artie Fufkin (Oct 28, 2016 06:29PM)
[quote]On Oct 28, 2016, Cagliostro wrote:

You definitely should pick up a deck or two. I think you will be intrigued by the difference in feel and handling.[/quote]


Everything I could do well with paper cards looked like junk when I tried it with plastic cards.

To be a "completest", one should really practice [i]constantly[/i] with both.
Message: Posted by: AMcD (Oct 28, 2016 07:22PM)
@tommy

I'm far from being a casino specialist, but I've always seen poker size plastic cards in casinos here (south of England, the coast).

@Marco

Modiano and Dal Negro plastic are excellent. Very nice feel.
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Oct 28, 2016 08:31PM)
[quote]On Oct 28, 2016, AMcD wrote:
@tommy

I'm far from being a casino specialist, but I've always seen poker size plastic cards in casinos here (south of England, the coast).

[/quote]

Arnold, just curious on this. Did you see plastic poker sized cards in the poker games or on the casino table games? A couple of people in England have told me that in the smaller casinos poker sized plastic cards are used in the BJ shoe games. So I was just was curious if you saw poker sized in the poker games also. Your remark pertained to the "casinos" and it was not clear if that included the casino poker rooms also.
Message: Posted by: JFX (Oct 29, 2016 12:02AM)
@Marco
Thank you for the kind words. Glad my videos provide some motivation to you!
[QUOTE]Will you work on the strike too?[/QUOTE]
The strike SD was one of the first moves I learned. I started with a strike from mechanics grip but then switched to the one that Walter Scott used.
However, I like push off SD more than strikes. that's why you don't see it used in my videos nowadays.

@Cag
Thanks for elaborating on the BD grip. Makes sense!
[QUOTE]You definitely should pick up a deck or two. I think you will be intrigued by the difference in feel and handling. When I first started working with plastics, they kept spurting and slipping out or my hands and landing on the floor.[/QUOTE]
Any recommendation for a particular brand?
Message: Posted by: tommy (Oct 29, 2016 04:34AM)
Well the times they are changing and perhaps some casinos have started using the wider size cards because of or for the televised poker comps.
Message: Posted by: MarcoLostSomething (Oct 29, 2016 09:45AM)
@Joey:
i also use the Scott's grip for the strike SD, but it seems slightly different from this you are using fro the pushoff. You learned it from ECT?

@Cag:
I got the advice to start practising with plastics from here, I bought some Aviators and they sprang all over my room in the first 10 mins of practice. It's a good training, I realized how important is to get a feel to handle other brands of cards.
I actually feel that some false deal gets better with plastics, because of the grip they make with the finger, but it might be an impression.
Since I literally destroyed my cards, what brand are common/good to try? I'll also try some bridge sized plastics, out of curiosity, and hoping they aren't much expensive.
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Oct 29, 2016 01:26PM)
@JFX and Marcos:

For plastic cards check MAcD's excellent post: [i]Plastic is fantastic (a short view on plastic cards).[/i]

In my area of the world, Kem Bridge size card for poker are the most common. I use them because players recognize them most readily. Personally I like Copag cards and they are fairly well known to players.

For the purchase of a first deck I would suggest Bicycle Prestige (cheapest to buy) or Copags because I personally like them and they are easily available. Kems are more common and durable, but not my first choice. Copags come in both poker and bridge size, but I think Prestige may come in poker size only. With plastics I work mostly with bridge size cards since they are almost universal in the US for poker games.

Interestingly, casino poker rooms are moving to , or already have, their own personalized plastic playing cards made with their own logo or identity on the backs.
Message: Posted by: Peterson (Oct 29, 2016 02:36PM)
"I would suggest Bicycle Prestige "

Right. The only playing cards that you will drop BEFORE handling them, because the box is just notorious piece of failure.
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Oct 31, 2016 03:06PM)
[quote]On Oct 29, 2016, Peterson wrote:
"I would suggest Bicycle Prestige "

Right. The only playing cards that you will drop BEFORE handling them, because the box is just notorious piece of failure. [/quote]

I have dropped a few plastic decks of cards in my lifetime, but always AFTER I took them out of the box. But then again, I am very adroit when handling the box...the deck itself, maybe no so good. :P
Message: Posted by: JFX (Nov 3, 2016 08:32AM)
So I got the pack of copags that I ordered in the mail today. After handling them for about half an hour I made a couple short clips.
Here is one of them:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qgNQxpi7OI

- Riffle stacking
- Top stock control

I like that they are so thin but still have a good spring to them. However, I was quite surprised about how slippery they are.
By the way these are poker size plastics. I thought switching to plastic bridge sized cards is a little overkill :P One step at a time.
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Nov 3, 2016 09:21AM)
So, how do you like them so far?

Seconds and bottoms next? :)
Message: Posted by: JFX (Nov 3, 2016 09:27AM)
[QUOTE]So, how do you like them so far?[/QUOTE]
Once you got used to them being so slippery, I like them for riffle shuffle work. False deals are a little more tricky in my opinion.
[QUOTE]Seconds and bottoms next? Smile[/QUOTE]
Yup, already got those filmed in the same session. But I'll save those up for another time. I spammed the forum quite a bit lately :P
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Nov 3, 2016 09:40AM)
Copag makes a very nice card in my opinion. Kem cards can sometimes be quite annoying as they tend to buckle but are still used extensively. While I have a few plastic poker sized decks, I work exclusively with bridge sized cards because that is all they use in my part of the world and they have less surface to work with.

Have fun although I think you need more of a challenge. How about rubber cards next? :rolleyes:
Message: Posted by: JFX (Nov 3, 2016 10:28AM)
[QUOTE]Have fun although I think you need more of a challenge. [/QUOTE]
The challenge for me will be bridge sized cards. In my area there is a popular game called "Schafkopf" that is played with a deck of 32 bridge sized cards. Never liked to handle cards in that format.
Message: Posted by: JFX (Nov 10, 2016 12:31PM)
New video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvB0XnFCrdQ
(Table Hop)
Message: Posted by: AMcD (Nov 10, 2016 01:19PM)
Smooth. Well done. Keep going that way Joey!
Message: Posted by: Artie Fufkin (Nov 10, 2016 02:52PM)
That's very nicely done Joey, excellent work.
Message: Posted by: JassTan (Nov 10, 2016 08:33PM)
Very clean moves , smooth as always, can't wait to see more.
Message: Posted by: FnB (Nov 11, 2016 04:40AM)
Even if I know the move I can't properly detect it. Smooth af. Nice!
Message: Posted by: tommy (Nov 12, 2016 10:46AM)
Normally I don’t much like the look of that move but that was beautiful.
Message: Posted by: JFX (Nov 14, 2016 12:32PM)
Thank you guys, glad you liked it!

New Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wn1qCfk1bw
(Wash Control)
Message: Posted by: MarcoLostSomething (Nov 16, 2016 02:41PM)
Very cool! Loved the wash control! I honestly didn't think it could be done deceptively, and that proves me wrong.
I think I've seen it from Steve Forte, but he doesn't count.

Also, did you unlisted all your videos? I hope they're still available
Message: Posted by: FelixKraus (Nov 18, 2016 03:31AM)
[quote]On Nov 14, 2016, JFX wrote:
Thank you guys, glad you liked it!

New Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wn1qCfk1bw
(Wash Control) [/quote]

Wow, this is very smooth. First time seeing your video, great job!
Message: Posted by: JFX (Nov 18, 2016 05:21AM)
[QUOTE]Also, did you unlisted all your videos? I hope they're still available [/QUOTE]
Yes, I either deleted them or made them private.

[QUOTE]Wow, this is very smooth. First time seeing your video, great job! [/QUOTE]
Thank you Felix. It's quite a compliment if scrambling cards on a table still looks smooth :D
Message: Posted by: JFX (Nov 22, 2016 09:40AM)
New Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43_ghXeJtdU

Spent a little more time on the editing part this time.
Message: Posted by: JFX (Nov 30, 2016 09:05AM)
New Video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVl-kWX9LBs
(Riffle Stacking Close Up)
Message: Posted by: tommy (Nov 30, 2016 11:25AM)
That was beautiful Joey. Thanks.
Message: Posted by: Artie Fufkin (Nov 30, 2016 10:39PM)
That was great Joey, dare I say the speed appeared perfect.

I've only seen video of two folks who riffle stack at the level you display in your video. Names (or tags) you'd likely recognize - you'd be proud to be in their company.
Message: Posted by: JFX (Dec 2, 2016 01:48PM)
Thank you guys!

Here is another one. 7 Hands, RRSRC procedure:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWamG-WXEbo
Message: Posted by: Claudio (Dec 2, 2016 02:13PM)
Great pace and smooth stacking!

By the way, what equipment do you use for recording? The video is slightly grainy but quite clear nevertheless. I need to buy some hardware myself.
Message: Posted by: AMcD (Dec 2, 2016 02:33PM)
Joey, please, not a cut like that, not you :)
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Dec 2, 2016 02:45PM)
[quote]On Dec 2, 2016, JFX wrote:

Here is another one. 7 Hands, RRSRC procedure:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWamG-WXEbo [/quote]

Nicely done, Joey.

However, actual card room procedure is to go into the last shuffle without doing a double undercut. In other words, right after the strip cuts one cuts for the final shuffle, one does not strip cut and then double undercut followed by the final shuffle.

Of course I am nit-picking and not criticizing your work. However, since you appear to be a perfectionist I thought you would like to know what the accepted game procedure was. Also, sometimes "more" is "less" although sometimes in demos "more" is "more."

The final cut is cute but there are other ways to do that as I am sure you know. A one card slip cut might be better as well as other ways that I am sure you can figure out. However, for demos that final cut technique shown does the job as well as any but would not fly for very long in a professional casino card room under surveillance or with sharp players.

Once again...very nice work Joey.
Message: Posted by: Bobbycash (Dec 3, 2016 06:16AM)
Joey,
You have the a great touch. Thank you for sharing.
Message: Posted by: tommy (Dec 3, 2016 08:19AM)
It would be great if all the things we see here fitted the formal procedure of the professional poker games. Still, formal poker procedures essentially apply to the professional poker games only. While we run a private professional poker game where players demand the strict formal poker procedure, sometimes players waiting for a seat or whatever, also have side games like Gin, which are a different kettle of fish altogether. We are not really familiar with amateur poker games but the procedures in them are bound to vary where that might fit the bill.
Message: Posted by: AMcD (Dec 3, 2016 12:41PM)
Tommy,

can you detail the shuffling procedure in use in your game? Maybe I can match it.
Message: Posted by: tommy (Dec 3, 2016 01:37PM)
Standard; Wash, Riffle, Riffle, Strip, Riffle, Cut.

Our cash games though are Omaha 4/5/6 dealers choice, which makes things awkward.
Message: Posted by: AMcD (Dec 3, 2016 01:43PM)
A wash before EVERY shuffle?
Message: Posted by: tommy (Dec 3, 2016 03:14PM)
Yes. The croupiers give them a longer wash than normal at the start when the cards are in new deck order. Normally they give them a quick wash before the RRSRC. I think the wash is what they like to see performed most of all. Sometimes dealers try to speed the game up by missing a wash as the more hands the more the tips. Somebody though will tell them to give them a wash.
Message: Posted by: AMcD (Dec 3, 2016 04:28PM)
Nice procedures.

That said, it wouldn't be a problem for me to counterfeit that.
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Dec 3, 2016 06:22PM)
[quote]On Dec 3, 2016, AMcD wrote:
A wash before EVERY shuffle? [/quote]

In professional games in Vegas, there is almost always a mini wash after each hand and prior to the RRSRC.

When a new deck hits the table, one which is in new deck order, the cards are first washed [i]face up[/i] to show that no blocks are being retained, then they are turn over and washed face down prior to the shuffle sequence.

This of course is to guard against the new deck being previously stacked and then false shuffled by the dealer. Years ago, when the new deck pairs were brought to the table, one could be stacked with the Ace of Spades on the face. Then after the false shuffles and cuts the fun would begins. The procedure of washing new decks face up first was designed to prevent this scam but has taken some of the enjoyment out of the game for some.
:bawl:
Message: Posted by: AMcD (Dec 3, 2016 06:28PM)
Thanks for the info.

That said, I have seen thousands hours of professional Poker games on TV (tons of Poker shows). High Stakes Poker, for instance, which I enjoyed a lot. Dealers (who are pros, unless guys at the Bellagio aren't...), well, they do washes, but certainly not for every round. I'd say every 5 rounds or so? Like in my amateur games.
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Dec 3, 2016 07:24PM)
@AMcD:

A "mini-wash" is not the same as a full wash. In a mini wash the dealer turns all the cards face down, including the spreaded stem and pushes the cards together as he pushes them forward giving them little scramble in the process prior to squaring up for the shuffle and it only takes 2 or 3 seconds. A full wash is more elaborate and is usually done after several hands, not after every hand.

I don't know what games you're referring to, whether cash games or tournaments each of which can be handled a little differently. The reason being the risk in cash games, especially big cash games is not the same as in tournaments. I would assume for televised games things might be sped up since they have commercial sponsors so could be a little different as far as say a cash game that is not "commercialized" but I don’t know that for a fact.

Certain procedures are pretty standard but others can be varied a little depending upon management and the circumstances as far as washes go.

However,some of this is really moot as just about all poker games in higher end casinos that I have seen now use automatic shufflers. This prevents standard manipulation of the cards and speeds up the games significantly.
Message: Posted by: tommy (Dec 3, 2016 07:29PM)
It is that which we and our local casino’s use; standard procedure of the professional poker cash games in my experience. It is a security procedure deliberately and cleverly designed to be restrictive. I cannot recall seeing a professional `cash` game not doing a wash every hand. However, in casino comps, sometimes the managers tell the croupiers to forget about it. That is to do with time where they have thousands enter and need to finish on time.
Message: Posted by: AMcD (Dec 3, 2016 07:39PM)
Thanks.

Next week I'll show you a couple of videos. How I did in MY games, and how I think I could do in YOUR games.

@Cag

I was referring to cash games. One of my favourite show was High Stakes Poker.
Message: Posted by: JFX (Dec 25, 2016 08:20AM)
New Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7z52CuZme2w
(Push Off Seconds)
Message: Posted by: CoffeeBeans (Dec 26, 2016 06:00AM)
Very nice work Joey! And merry Christmas to you guys.
Message: Posted by: Artie Fufkin (Dec 26, 2016 06:17PM)
That's an excellent push-off Joey, and I applaud your speed - not fast, and not slow ... but comfortably in-between.
Message: Posted by: JFX (Jan 6, 2017 04:13AM)
Thank you guys!

Another riffle stacking video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCbkgxWpWrE
(7 Hands, somewhat close up)
Message: Posted by: Expertmagician (Jan 26, 2017 10:55PM)
WOW...no hesitation ! GREAT !
Message: Posted by: JFX (Jan 27, 2017 06:42AM)
Thank you @Expertmagician!
Message: Posted by: tommy (Jan 27, 2017 08:32AM)
WOW...no hesitation ! GREAT ! indeed. Thanks and well done.
Message: Posted by: TH10111 (Jan 27, 2017 10:23AM)
Smooth :)
Message: Posted by: JFX (Sep 23, 2017 01:24PM)
Control for a (quite) large top stock
https://youtu.be/uD1h5JNA5-M

Gene Maze bottom deal
https://youtu.be/dojWMErLLhI
Message: Posted by: Mr. Bones (Sep 23, 2017 06:06PM)
Excellent work Joey, very nice!
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Sep 23, 2017 08:48PM)
Great job as usual Joey.

Please, stop fooling me like this. It is getting to be embarrassing. :)
Message: Posted by: TH10111 (Sep 24, 2017 04:07AM)
Hey Joey, haven't heard from you in a while, hope you're doing well!

That top stock control looks great :)
Message: Posted by: JFX (Sep 24, 2017 07:14AM)
Thank you guys!
Message: Posted by: Bobbycash (Sep 25, 2017 06:51AM)
Joey,
Beautiful composition and work as always.
(Make sure the next video you upload on YouTube is the one with the beautiful one handed hop from Instagram!)
Message: Posted by: JFX (Sep 25, 2017 10:47AM)
Thank you @Bobbycash!

Here you go:
https://youtu.be/LF5M6cOgbpM
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Sep 25, 2017 03:37PM)
Smoothly performed as usual.
Message: Posted by: MarcoLostSomething (Sep 25, 2017 04:27PM)
Glad to see you got some time to record some stuff! Also I like the cinematic look, very pleasant to watch
Message: Posted by: Bobbycash (Sep 25, 2017 07:52PM)
Thank you Joey,
I love the movement of that hop.
Message: Posted by: JFX (Oct 1, 2017 09:55AM)
Miller Shift:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7m6sLs0UpU
Message: Posted by: TH10111 (Oct 1, 2017 05:00PM)
Nicely done Joey!
I always thought of that shift as elegant but impractical...
Message: Posted by: Claudio (Oct 2, 2017 04:20AM)
Nice
Message: Posted by: Javi Santos (Oct 3, 2017 05:34AM)
Absolutely flawless as usual!!!!

Congrats man, and thanks for sharing!!

Javi
Message: Posted by: tommy (Oct 3, 2017 04:54PM)
Indeed!
Message: Posted by: JFX (Oct 7, 2017 06:54AM)
Bottom Deal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyMTNilADes
Message: Posted by: TH10111 (Oct 7, 2017 08:39AM)
Beautifully executed :)
Message: Posted by: JFX (Oct 7, 2017 03:02PM)
Thank you!
Message: Posted by: Maxwell Pritchard (Oct 24, 2017 09:29AM)
This is great, Joey. Thanks for that.

MP
Message: Posted by: JFX (Jun 2, 2018 01:35PM)
Https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n92oB2HyufU
(Riffle Stacking)
Message: Posted by: Mr. Bones (Jun 2, 2018 01:48PM)
Outstanding as always Joey, absolutely seamless!
Message: Posted by: AMcD (Jun 2, 2018 08:41PM)
That grip, that grip!!!
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Jun 2, 2018 10:58PM)
Nicely done as usual. Smooth, clean and without any hesitation.

Plus, I think the grip adds a certain amount of elegance to the shuffle. :)
Message: Posted by: JFX (Jun 3, 2018 12:54AM)
[quote]That grip, that grip!!![/quote]
Sorry Arnold, that I keep disappointing you on a regular basis :P
Message: Posted by: JFX (Oct 29, 2018 03:25AM)
Two recent videos:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BpcJt3pBxHE/?taken-by=moriarty_joeyfx
(top stock control)

https://www.instagram.com/p/BpesohXhiJo/?taken-by=moriarty_joeyfx
(bottom deal)
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Oct 29, 2018 09:45AM)
@JFS: Joey, you have got to stop fooling me like that. It's embarrassing.

Nice work. ;)
Message: Posted by: TH10111 (Oct 29, 2018 01:20PM)
Excellent as ever!

Thanks for sharing :)
Message: Posted by: Mr. Bones (Oct 29, 2018 04:10PM)
Both vids are excellent Joey, I especially like your handling during the top stock control!
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Nov 1, 2018 01:06PM)
Not to detract from your nice work, but do you ever do demos with bridged sized plastic cards with white borders, either Kem or Copag. Seems like most demonstrators are limited to doing demos with poker sized paper cards which, except for some amateur level private games, is not realistic.

Just a thought.

Also have you tried any other base deal grip other than the Erdnase type grip you use. I know many enthusiast like to mimic Forte who uses that grip, but have you effectively used any other.

Also, do you demo you any full deck controls like pull throughs or strip outs?

But once again, always nice work.
Message: Posted by: JFX (Nov 1, 2018 11:30PM)
[quote]Not to detract from your nice work, but do you ever do demos with bridged sized plastic cards with white borders, either Kem or Copag. Seems like most demonstrators are limited to doing demos with poker sized paper cards which, except for some amateur level private games, is not realistic. [/quote]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qgNQxpi7OI
(Stacking and top stock control with plastic cards)

[quote]Also have you tried any other base deal grip other than the Erdnase type grip you use. I know many enthusiast like to mimic Forte who uses that grip, but have you effectively used any other.[/quote]

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bpm4wuPh-u_/
https://www.instagram.com/p/BMLhLXWhJL4/
(Mechanics Grip Bottom)

[quote]Also, do you demo you any full deck controls like pull throughs or strip outs? [/quote]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ut5JBi2MdRE
(Push through, old video though)
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Nov 2, 2018 10:51AM)
Thanks and nicely done. You do beautiful work. Good thing you are an honest guy or we would all be in trouble. :)
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Nov 2, 2018 03:46PM)
@JFX: You have a very nice smooth bottom deal using two different grips. You also have naturally skillful hands and have no doubt given considerable thought to arrive as your bottom deal mastery and technique. So here is my question since I know how long it took me to get to your level initially and I basically have skillful hands also and have no problem practicing for hours per day if necessary.

Once you had decided to master the bottom deal, and once you had decided on the grip and technique to work on, [i]from that point on[/i] how long did it take you to master that bottom deal method to a level in which you felt you had mastered it sufficiently well to deceive for demonstration purposes. In other words, happy and confident in your mastery of the bottom deal...its smoothness and deceptiveness.

Yes, I know guys like you and me probably are never completely satisfied and are always tweaking and trying new methods. But that aside...your initial mastery of the bottom deal to the point you felt you had it.

Also, how much time per day or week did you devote to the practice of attaining this mastery?
Message: Posted by: JFX (Nov 9, 2018 12:56PM)
Push off second deal
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bp-GTogBUE5/
Message: Posted by: Last Laugh (Nov 9, 2018 04:14PM)
That stud take looks amazing. Very deceptive.
Message: Posted by: JFX (Nov 24, 2018 08:29AM)
Thank you :)

Some one handed seconds
https://www.instagram.com/p/BqkM0pNgvkw/
Message: Posted by: JFX (Jan 22, 2019 12:19PM)
Some recent videos on the push through:

(RRSRC procedure)
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bs2-gDYBfvd/

(Trying to show it from all angles)
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bs8koZuBVnt/

(Completing the cut in an erdnase fashion)
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bsk8unBh2y_/

(More natural way of completing the cut)
https://www.instagram.com/p/BsSijgPBrqZ/

Hope you like them!
Message: Posted by: tommy (Jan 23, 2019 03:43AM)
Good work – but the strip cuts look magical.
Message: Posted by: JFX (Jan 23, 2019 11:22AM)
Any hints on how to make them look not "magical"?
Message: Posted by: tommy (Jan 23, 2019 12:38PM)
Non magical:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBxnuoBWdVs

Magical:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo4qiFn7lpY
Message: Posted by: JFX (Jan 23, 2019 12:58PM)
Thank you. What exactly is the reason why the first one is used? I always thought in a real setting it is all about speed (i.e. more hands to be played and thus more money) and the second one can be done at a faster pace in my opinion.
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Jan 23, 2019 02:58PM)
[quote]On Jan 23, 2019, JFX wrote:
Any hints on how to make them look not "magical"? [/quote]

Well, how about wearing New-Age finger rings on all your fingers and thumbs? No, that has already been done by another premier card table performer plus it might make you [i]really[/i] look magical.

Perhaps having tattoos all over your body and brandishing an unkempt bearded homeless guy appearance? Regrettably, while that may be disarming, it has already been done before by the great DM. Besides it makes people itchy and they want to scratch themselves while watching.

Hmmmm...wait a minute. You are doing a demonstration showing skill with cards, even possessing the ability to control them and bent them to your will. While Tommy's point is well taken for [i]an actual game format[/i] situation, you are performing a card table demonstration for show. You are slick and fast and give the appearance of being able to do anything with cards. Why not just keep things the way they are...slick, fast and yes "magical" ...because performing card control for show is really a magical feat, is it not?

Of course, wearing a top hat and tux might be stretching things a bit too far.

So, IMO it is supposed to look slick and magical...and the slicker and faster you work the better. Of course, that is just my opinion for what it is worth.

Regarding tommy's statement, if you were attempting to emulate a casino house dealer at twenty-one or poker, that is another story. Slick and fast, which in a way enhances your demonstrations would wake the dead and probably get you pulled up in a professional gambling format. But hey, if it is good enough for Steve Forte, well...

(Slick and fast is not the same as clean, efficient and easy to follow which would be important in a professional or casino format.)

Interestingly I watched [i]Molly's Game[/i] on TV the other night, the story of Molly Bloom and the very high stakes exclusive private poker games she ran in L.A. and N.Y. for the wealthy - sports figures, Hollywood show biz types, business magnates, a few Russian Mobsters and so on. In one scene she has hired a new dealer who is experienced and Molly wants to see her deal a little before the game starts. As soon as the dealer shows Molly how adroitly and professionally she deals, Molly pulls her up and says, "No, don't handle cards like that in this game. Slow down and deal more clumsily. You will scare away my players if you are that slick" or some such statement.

However, even if you were not doing pull-throughs, false cuts and whatever, and even if you were not fooling me all the time, I would still enjoy watching you shuffle and deal because it looks so fast and slick and adroit. Even if you were not controlling the cards I would still enjoy watching, but of course, not in [i]my[/i] game. ;)
Message: Posted by: tommy (Jan 23, 2019 11:00PM)
It is not about speed but about technique: the first shows the technique used by dealers, while the second shows the technique used by most magicians. Some gamblers call the magicians way an up-the-ladder cut, even though it may not be so but when they see it done that way it raises their suspicion. It is not normal procedure to experienced poker players that’s all.
Message: Posted by: JFX (Jan 23, 2019 11:14PM)
I don't mean the speed displayed in the two videos. But it appears to me that the second technique can be done at a faster pace than the first one. Up till now I was under the impression that a fast pace would be desired at the table. Therefore, my question what the reasons are that the first one is preferred. Would love to hear some insight.
Message: Posted by: tommy (Jan 23, 2019 11:34PM)
It does not matter which way is faster. One cannot use Erdnase like strip cuts without waking the dead. The first one is preferred because it is a security procedure designed to prevent Erdnase like manipulations.
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Jan 24, 2019 10:32AM)
[quote]On Jan 23, 2019, tommy wrote:

It does not matter which way is faster. One cannot use Erdnase like strip cuts without waking the dead. The first one is preferred because it is a security procedure designed to prevent Erdnase like manipulations. [/quote]

I would agree with tommy on this and his point is valid. The first procedure is very clean, everyone can follow what is occurring (surveillance, the floorman and the players), the middle block of the deck is getting changed or reversed and the number of strip cuts is minimalized.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBxnuoBWdVs

Of course, it can be done a little more adroitly and professionally than shown. It is actually counted 1,2,3,4 if one counts the first packet pull as 1 and the last packet, placed on top, as 4. If one just pulls 1,2,3 the middle packet essentially remains the same. Pulling 1,2,3,4 breaks that packet up. Whipping one to three singular packets from the bottom to top and then whipping 4,5,6 times or more with a running cut...no one know what is occurring. It looks skillful, dazzling and to more experienced people, certainly suspicious.

The last thing a well-run house or a properly trained dealer wants to do is create lack of clarity or suspicion as to what is occurring. In fact, they make every effort to do just the opposite.

This is not to say that some poker and casino game dealers will not whip 1,2,3 or 1,2,3,4 with a running cut, (Erdnase style, if that makes the description easier to understand), but 4 is about max and ideal. If the dealer is whipping 5,6,7 or more running cuts, the game is not following accepted procedure. Not only is it hard to follow, it is a waste of dealing time.

Of course, my post of Jan. 23 2019 above was largely tongue in cheek. However, for demos there is one school of thought that says the more pizzazz and skill demonstrated, the better. Then again, a purist can ague that demos should duplicate [i]exact[/i] game procedure, or at least as closely as possible. I think it can be argued pro or con depending on the circumstances, the audience involved and whether it is primarily for entertainment or not.

But...in the final analysis...a demo, is a demo, is a demo, is a demo...it is still not the same as [i]getting the money[/i] in a live action game.

Of course, just my rarely, if ever, humble opinion... ;)
Message: Posted by: JFX (Jan 26, 2019 06:41AM)
Thank you for the insight. I just wanted to understand the reasoning behind it!

An update on my Bottom Deal:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BtEN4rdBgsd/
Message: Posted by: JFX (Jan 31, 2019 11:07AM)
Some more riffle stacking:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BtTn8zmBlr0/
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Jan 31, 2019 01:50PM)
[quote]On Jan 31, 2019, JFX wrote:
Some more riffle stacking:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BtTn8zmBlr0/ [/quote]

Nicely performed as usual, Joey.

Out of curiosity, can you do two shuffles of four of a kind for 4 hands or 3 shuffles of four of a kind for 8 hands with any degree of consistency?

In my experience, that is quite difficult to do consistently with a straight riffle shuffle.
Message: Posted by: popcalinda (Jan 31, 2019 02:23PM)
[quote]On Jan 31, 2019, Cagliostro wrote:
[quote]On Jan 31, 2019, JFX wrote:
Some more riffle stacking:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BtTn8zmBlr0/ [/quote]

Nicely performed as usual, Joey.

Out of curiosity, can you do two shuffles of four of a kind for 4 hands or 3 shuffles of four of a kind for 8 hands with any degree of consistency?

In my experience, that is quite difficult to do consistently with a straight riffle shuffle. [/quote]

Z stacking skills are amazing. The best I've seen
Message: Posted by: Mr. Bones (Jan 31, 2019 07:42PM)
Z is a whole 'nother level.
Message: Posted by: JFX (Jan 31, 2019 10:21PM)
[quote]Z is a whole 'nother level.[/quote]
I fully agree
Message: Posted by: JFX (Feb 17, 2019 06:44AM)
Mechanics Grip Bottom Deal
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bt-4X7BBncN/
Message: Posted by: JFX (Apr 26, 2019 03:41PM)
Riffle Stacking:
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bwutrwro6-C/
Message: Posted by: holdingoutflat (Aug 21, 2019 12:19PM)
Looks really great. Would be very interested in a project of yours.