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Topic: Tommy Wonder cups and balls
Message: Posted by: Arepsi (Apr 27, 2011 12:36PM)
What do you think about this? Does somebody perform this from Tommy's videos?

http://www.aarosorva.com/bagandpompoms.html

aaro@aarosorva.com
Message: Posted by: Andrew Zuber (Apr 27, 2011 01:08PM)
I know people have tried to make these but it's a lot of work.
Message: Posted by: cupsandballsmagic (Apr 27, 2011 01:13PM)
Auke van Dokkum is making these, I have seen them and they are wonderful quality. You can read more about it by searching for a previous thread I believe.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Apr 27, 2011 08:16PM)
I have a set of the balls and bag that Auke made. He is making a special set of cups that are based on his traditional cup design. As I type this, the 4F gathering is taking place, and Auke is bringing me a set of the cups in brass. As soon as I have the whole megilla, I'll put the photos on the museum site.

It took a long time for the Wonder estate to decide what to do about Tommy's creations. They wanted a machinist who knew Tommy and who could live up to his exacting standards. Auke is just the right fellow.
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Apr 27, 2011 08:33PM)
Auke, being Dutch, and being an excellent craftsman is a perfect combination for Tommy's items.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Apr 27, 2011 11:27PM)
Not only that, Auke built a number of special items for Tommy. They were working on the Wandering Chimes before Tommy died.

It has been very difficult for Frank Bemelman, who is Tommy's brother, and who came under some very harsh attacks from certain people on this side of the pond.
Message: Posted by: pabloinus (Apr 28, 2011 09:40AM)
Arepsi, I think the balls you made look great, but I am not sure I will personally use these kind of balls, the RNT2 and Pascaline's balls are good enough for me and the load could be anything.
But for sure the pom pom you made look great
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Apr 28, 2011 12:54PM)
Pab... but you need those kind to do Wonder's routine.
Message: Posted by: Doctor D (Apr 28, 2011 01:14PM)
I can say for a fact that Auke also sells a working version of Tommy's chimes. Dan le Fay has worked on this with Tommy before his death, and with Auke on the machining of these. His work with this is absolutely beautiful.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Apr 28, 2011 01:16PM)
I got the first set of the chimes that Auke sold in the US. They are really neat. I saw the prototypes when Auke was still working on them.
Message: Posted by: doug brewer (Apr 28, 2011 01:36PM)
What is the "wandering chimes" effect?
Message: Posted by: ekins (Apr 28, 2011 02:04PM)
Both the chimes and the bag with pom poms are listed on Auke's website: http://www.cupsandballs.nl/ Click "Products" and then "Other"

-Brian
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Apr 28, 2011 05:02PM)
[quote]
On 2011-04-28 14:36, doug brewer wrote:
What is the "wandering chimes" effect?
[/quote]

It's basically a version of the now politically incorrectly named assembly of four objects, using chimes rather than weights.

Search for wandering chimes in Ever So Sleightly.
Message: Posted by: ddeckmann (Apr 28, 2011 05:14PM)
I've made my tommy wonder set. The big pompon took me 50 meters of wool and whole day. One day during traveling, the big pompon fell apart.

I started to make monkey balls and I had the idea to make a "monkey ball tommy wonder set". This is, with a big monkey ball attached to the bag.

I like wands, so I don't perform this routine no more.
Message: Posted by: Close.Up.Dave (Apr 29, 2011 07:47AM)
I made the balls and pom pom. My mom made the bag. It worked out really well. However, it took FOREVER to make everything. Especially because I had to redo the balls several times to get the size that worked best for me.

Dave
Message: Posted by: hefemexy (Apr 29, 2011 06:52PM)
Does anyone know of some others who make make the bag, I've emailed Auke, got a response but he's out of stock and doesn't know when these will be made again. Any other producers of this item.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (May 4, 2011 05:24PM)
Actually, Auke is the only person licensed to make (commercially) any of the Tommy Wonder products. If you can find the necessary gimmick, you can make the bag yourself. The instructions are in the [i]Books of Wonder.[/i] You don't have to knit the bag yourself.

The official Tommy Wonder cups and balls sets are now for sale. You can see a set at the cups and balls museum, on the page of unusual cups, right below the sets Tommy sold years ago.

[quote]
On 2011-04-29 19:52, hefemexy wrote:
Does anyone know of some others who make make the bag, I've emailed Auke, got a response but he's out of stock and doesn't know when these will be made again. Any other producers of this item.
[/quote]
Send me an e-mail, and I'll tell you a really simple way to make this.
Message: Posted by: hefemexy (May 4, 2011 06:49PM)
Just sent an email bill
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (May 4, 2011 07:49PM)
[quote]
On 2011-05-04 18:24, Bill Palmer wrote:
Actually, Auke is the only person licensed to make (commercially) any of the Tommy Wonder products. If you can find the necessary gimmick, you can make the bag yourself. The instructions are in the [i]Books of Wonder.[/i] You don't have to knit the bag yourself.

The official Tommy Wonder cups and balls sets are now for sale. You can see a set at the cups and balls museum, on the page of unusual cups, right below the sets Tommy sold years ago.
[/quote]
Let me be more specific. The Official Tommy Wonder Cups are for sale by Auke van Dokkum.
Message: Posted by: hefemexy (May 4, 2011 07:54PM)
Lol...
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (May 5, 2011 10:56AM)
Remember -- the Cups and Balls Museum is similar to a Roach Motel --

Cups check in, but they don't check out!

MWA , Ha , ha, ha , ha (evil laugh)

ooo-EEE-ooo (sound of theremin in the background)
Message: Posted by: Tom Fenton (May 5, 2011 12:12PM)
A sort of "Hotel California" for cups.
Message: Posted by: BCS (May 5, 2011 12:19PM)
Tom... that is funny!!!
Message: Posted by: Andrew Zuber (May 5, 2011 12:33PM)
Does this mean Bill is some kind of wizard-esque Norman Bates?
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (May 5, 2011 12:47PM)
You will have to ask my mother that one.
Message: Posted by: plungerman (May 10, 2011 09:31PM)
Hey, I just noticed my purse has been cut loose.
Message: Posted by: nkwmagic (Sep 10, 2013 12:57AM)
It took me nearly a month's time to make my set, I have a few pompons broken and some of the sizes are not right. I prefer a larger final load, so I sacrificed the feature that the blue pompon can fit in a cup with one of the orange balls. but the routine still works perfectly!

here's a photo of the final thing:
http://www.nkwmagic.com/photo/twset.jpg
Message: Posted by: doug brewer (Sep 10, 2013 04:44PM)
I actually learned this routine from the book and for about a year or so (before the DVDs came out) I had a blast fooling a lot of magicians with this routine. It is more a magician fooler than the standard cups & balls. Once the DVDs came out, however, many magicians were at least familiar with the routine and the moves and it no longer fooled them as badly. For lay audiences, I just do a Vernon-type 3 cup routine with potato loads and it kills. Lay audiences aren't as impressed when they know where the loads came from (they're sitting on the table). Magicians are impressed you snuck the loads by them . . .
Message: Posted by: leomagnus (Sep 11, 2013 03:41PM)
I made up a set a while back. A nightmare to make, but a joy to perform.

-Leo
Message: Posted by: greatsandini (Sep 18, 2013 12:34PM)
Tom Stone has an amazing version of this routine. If you search youtube you can find it on one of the Japanese TV specials, dubbed in Japanese.
Message: Posted by: vmendoza (Sep 18, 2013 01:39PM)
Been doing Tommy's routine since the late 80's and it's a everybody fooler. In fact, this routine is so beautifully constructed that there are at least two additional spots where loads can be inserted into the routine. At one point, I use the line, "Ain't that a peach." and out comes a peach. At the very end, I tell them that it was a piece of cake, and then...

The problem with most other C&B routines is that, whether you want to admit it or not, the audience sees you move back towards your body to load. They're just being polite and not calling you out.

Tommy's routine make the process invisible. No one sees it. I once had one guest follow me to 4 tables, waiting for me to do Tommy's 2 Cup Routine. At the fourth table, he actually yelled out. "WHAT THE HELL!!! How are you doing that?!?" The misdirection is so strong, that unless you know what you're doing and when and where to look, you're not gonna be able to deconstruct this.

As for making the set. It's not that hard. Once you know what goes into making a pom-pom, you don't need those cardboard cutouts. Trim the balls to match whatever set of cups you have. They DO NOT have to be millimetrically correct, they just need to match your set. Also, I use wire to bind the pom-poms to make sure they are tight and will not pop apart. I have some I made that are over 15 years old. They get dirty, I throw them in the wash, but eventually, I have to make more. Also found a way to make multiple pom-poms in one shot. So I can make one, or a dozen all at once.
Message: Posted by: plungerman (Sep 19, 2013 01:05PM)
I would love to learn your method for making multiple pom-poms. For a time I was adicted to making them, (I'd get twitchy if I couldn't find the wool.) I've worked out a pretty good method then Bill lead me to a guy who turns them out faster than I ever could. Love the routine still, much to learn from it.

P
Message: Posted by: Moncle (Sep 20, 2013 08:36AM)
Hi all,

Just finished making the set, and you now what, cos it ain't easy no one in my vicinity is going to be doing that routine. Mwa ha ha haaa.
The instructions in the book regarding the right diameter of the mini pom poms I don't think is right, some cnfusion over radius Vs diameter, may it is my confusion. got there in the end, and what fine pom poms I now have.

I love the fact that is all self contained and you do not have to worry about carrying loads, and resets at the end.

Getting over the problems is part of the journey, I mean Tommy himself must of experimented abit before he got it right.

Mike.
Message: Posted by: nkwmagic (Sep 23, 2013 12:21AM)
Would love to hear about the way to make multiple pompon too! for all the pompons I use a metal ring to to secure all the yarn, they will never break!

I also wanna know, when you guys do this for table hopping, do you need to set up a close up mat for it?
Message: Posted by: Eyes of Darkness (Feb 14, 2014 12:15AM)
Has anyone ordered the bag and pom poms? How is the quality?
Message: Posted by: RajeshLGov (Feb 14, 2014 04:52AM)
Tommy Wonders routine is the BEST. I use pom poms that my wife made for me in 2005 :) I use it for my own routine(Which is no where near even the threshold of Mr. Wonders routine). Please do mention your method for making multiple pom poms. Best Wishes, Raj.
Message: Posted by: magic123 (Mar 2, 2014 08:46AM)
Hello

Has Anyone attempted to tackle fabricating Tommy Wonders Stage Cups ?

I believe one was gaffed , possibly our friend Bill Palmer or Jim Riser can offer some Input on this Topic

M123
Message: Posted by: TStone (Mar 7, 2014 12:05PM)
[quote]
On Mar 2, 2014, magic123 wrote:
Hello

Has Anyone attempted to tackle fabricating Tommy Wonders Stage Cups ?

I believe one was gaffed , possibly our friend Bill Palmer or Jim Riser can offer some Input on this Topic

M123
[/quote]
Yes, someone made a set: Tommy Wonder himself.
Can't see what business anyone else would have plagiarizing the props, since the act isn't up for grabs.
Message: Posted by: nkwmagic (May 23, 2017 01:49AM)
Hi all, I have a question about doing this routine from table to table. Without a mat I find the cups tend to roll on the table such that it becomes quite distracting (or worse the loaded cup would roll and reveal content). When you do table hopping with this set do you bring your own mat/table, or how else could you solve those problems?

Many thanks in advance!
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (May 23, 2017 06:05PM)
[quote]On Mar 7, 2014, TStone wrote:
[quote]
On Mar 2, 2014, magic123 wrote:
Hello

Has Anyone attempted to tackle fabricating Tommy Wonders Stage Cups ?

I believe one was gaffed , possibly our friend Bill Palmer or Jim Riser can offer some Input on this Topic

M123
[/quote]
Yes, someone made a set: Tommy Wonder himself.
Can't see what business anyone else would have plagiarizing the props, since the act isn't up for grabs. [/quote]

Check with the Estate. They have given permission to ANYONE to make his props as long as they give credit Tommy for the routine and props. I've made 3 sets, 1 for me and the other 2 for friends.

Mad Jake Jr.
Message: Posted by: Carrie Sue (Apr 13, 2019 09:47AM)
[quote]On May 4, 2011, Bill Palmer wrote:
[quote]
On 2011-05-04 18:24, Bill Palmer wrote:
Actually, Auke is the only person licensed to make (commercially) any of the Tommy Wonder products. If you can find the necessary gimmick, you can make the bag yourself. The instructions are in the [i]Books of Wonder.[/i] You don't have to knit the bag yourself.

The official Tommy Wonder cups and balls sets are now for sale. You can see a set at the cups and balls museum, on the page of unusual cups, right below the sets Tommy sold years ago.
[/quote]
Let me be more specific. The Official Tommy Wonder Cups are for sale by Auke van Dokkum. [/quote]

Sadly, Auke van Dokkum passed away in 2018, so I don't know of anyone who makes the sets now.

Carrie
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (May 19, 2019 01:21AM)
Auke, rest is soul was not the only one authorized to make any of Tommy Wonder products. The Wonder estate had a web page at one point, giving whom ever to reproduce
Tommy Wonder's effects as long as credit was given to Tommy. There was a clause in their permission stating that some items had been licensed and those items would have
to be discussed by other interested parties in making Wonder effects that were already licensed.

This was within a year of Tommy's passing, so the Estate may have changed handling of recreations of Tommys.

Jake Jr.
Message: Posted by: ekins (May 19, 2019 11:37PM)
Http://www.tommywonder.nl/catalog/licence.php
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (May 20, 2019 08:23AM)
[quote]On May 20, 2019, ekins wrote:
Http://www.tommywonder.nl/catalog/licence.php [/quote]

Thank you, I had just found it last night and I was going to post it this morning, but you beat me to it.

Jake Jr.
Message: Posted by: Wizard of Oz (May 20, 2019 05:54PM)
Wow. We don't see that kind of generosity much anymore.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jun 28, 2019 01:04PM)
I was one of two people appointed by Frank Bemelman to "police" the production of Tommy's material. The other was Max Maven. The reasoning behind these choices is interesting. The choice of Max was a no-brainer. Max knows more about who invented what than anyone else in the world. I was chosen for an entirely different reason. Basically, Tommy liked me.

The last time I saw him was at the Magic Circle Centenary. We sat and talked over coffee. I had met Tommy on many other occasions, and I was one of the few who didn't just discuss magic with him. I knew he was ill, but we didn't talk about it. We discussed happier things.

Imagine my surprise when Frank contacted me via email and told me that Tommy had asked that I be one of his "watchers."

There was a lot of flak over at the Genii Forum about this. One of the more outspoken nay-sayers basically demanded that Frank post this statement to the Genii Forum. There was a catch-22, though. Frank is not a magician, and therefore not actually qualified to be a member.

But Richard Kaufmann is a wise man. He gave Frank the opportunity to make a post to Genii Forum in which he posted his statement. Richard has always had a very strong stand against ripoff magic.

Now that Frank has basically released the material to the public, as far as production is concerned, my job is over. I was honored to be one of the watchers.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jun 30, 2019 04:39AM)
I should also point out that AT THE TIME I MADE THE ORIGINAL POST, the information about who was licensed to produce Tommy's tricks commercially was true. The situation changed as time progressed. I can't be responsible for people changing their minds. Think about it! ;)
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Jun 30, 2019 04:10PM)
Getting back to the OP ...the props may look good but what really matters is how they handle and how they hold up to real world use. That means doing sleights with the smaller ones, detaching the pompom from the bag and carrying the item around in your coat or case for a few months. That real world time in use sorts the reliable from the meritricious.
Message: Posted by: TStone (Jul 6, 2019 05:47PM)
[quote]On May 23, 2017, Mad Jake wrote:
[quote]On Mar 7, 2014, TStone wrote:
Yes, someone made a set: Tommy Wonder himself.
Can't see what business anyone else would have plagiarizing the props, since the act isn't up for grabs. [/quote]

Check with the Estate. They have given permission to ANYONE to make his props as long as they give credit Tommy for the routine and props. I've made 3 sets, 1 for me and the other 2 for friends.

Mad Jake Jr. [/quote]
I'm a friend of the estate. Frank got tired of policing pirating in a world that felt alien to him, and as a result he put up that licensing page. It is about rights to Tommy's published work.
I was offered the stage act, including the cups, as a gift, for helping the estate with various matters. Tempting, but I thought it would be better for the estate that Frank sold the act to someone else, so he did. Instead, I got all of Tommy's old notebooks and correspondance.
The stage act isn't published. I'm fairly certain the rights to it is exclusive to the person who bought the whole act.