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Topic: El Duco reel
Message: Posted by: Dr. Solar (Aug 31, 2011 07:22PM)
Does anybody know where to get an El Duco Reel or something just as good. El Duco's site will not allow my credit card for some reason. There must be a US distributor, I hope.
Message: Posted by: hugmagic (Aug 31, 2011 07:31PM)
Did you try Joe Stevens?
Richard
Message: Posted by: Dr. Solar (Sep 1, 2011 03:10AM)
Hi Richard,

Yes, I did try Stevens Magic and they do not carry any.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Sep 1, 2011 03:31AM)
Mike Ammar appeared on the Late Nite David Letterman Show, and used the El Duco Reel. He quickly sold out, and that was over a year ago. It would seem if Michael Ammar cannot get them, that El Duco is also out of stock.

I would say that due to the death of El Duco, whomever is running the El Duco site may be only selling out the products El Duco had in stock. Don't know as there has not been any announcements concerning his business.

To my knowledge El Duco never had a U.S. Distributor, when I worked in a magic shop, we had to order from Sweden for the products.

The standard finger reel will work just as good as the El Duco product. The only feature I see is that El Duco's is larger, more of a handicap then an advantage.

You can buy silk reels from Daytona Magic for $6 and up. Steven's Magic sells the Kirkendall Reel and the Tim Star Reels. All these will do the job.

Also I suggest you call on the telephone Mark Stevens, not just look on their site. Although, the El Duco I am sure is sold out everywhere do to Ammar's appearance on television.
Message: Posted by: Dr_J_Ayala (Sep 1, 2011 02:10PM)
Try calling El Duco to see if they can help with the problem, or send them an e-mail. They are very easy to work with and they are very helpful and knowledgeable.
Message: Posted by: Dr. Solar (Sep 1, 2011 08:45PM)
I have gotten through to El Duco. Their EU credit system has a security block that will not allow use of my VISA credit card. I would have to pay $20 more for Paypal but they frown in it. I could probably send a check snail mail. I will call Stevens again. This is for Silks Through Mic Stand, Arm, etc. Smooth, silent, locking.
Message: Posted by: Dr_J_Ayala (Sep 1, 2011 10:41PM)
I have the El Duco reel and I absolutely love it. For me, it is the perfect size. However, if you do go to Stevens Magic, ask them about the Kirkendall reel. That thing is absolutely marvelous, and is as quiet as any other good reel out there, including the El Duco reel. I have a Kirkendall that I use and it is not as big as some other reels out there, and as a bonus it comes with a DVD of routines and ideas for use. Last I checked, it was something like $85/USD with shipping included in that price.
Message: Posted by: hugmagic (Sep 2, 2011 07:05AM)
Kirkendall reel is very good and quiet.

Richard
Message: Posted by: Dr. Solar (Sep 2, 2011 01:28PM)
Okay, with Richard's trusted word, I managed to get one at Hocus Pocus. A Kirkendall that is, without the DVD. Anyone have a copy to get off. Thanks for all the input from all.

Doc

Posted: Sep 3, 2011 10:43pm
Back on the front burner. Got the Kirkendall, no locking brake, small without power.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Sep 3, 2011 10:17PM)
[quote]
On 2011-09-03 22:43, Dr. Solar wrote:
Back on the front burner. Got the Kirkendall, no locking brake, small without power.
[/quote]
Finger reels don't need or use a brake that locks, that would only get in the way. Finger reels has a pad break that most do not use in the performance of the effects. Most use their fingers to control the speed.

Power has nothing to do with a reel as well. You don't need power for the Serpent Silk or the silk thru microphone stand effects. Correction, it has all the power and speed it needs to perform with a 24" silk, the Rice Serpent silk, or a rope.

Seems you are making comments that have no bearing on the apparatus. If you would like to explain your comments, I am sure those of us that have used the reel for over 50 years can explain things to you.
Message: Posted by: Dr_J_Ayala (Sep 3, 2011 11:26PM)
[quote]
On 2011-09-03 23:17, wmhegbli wrote:
[quote]
On 2011-09-03 22:43, Dr. Solar wrote:
Back on the front burner. Got the Kirkendall, no locking brake, small without power.
[/quote]
Finger reels don't need or use a brake that locks, that would only get in the way. Finger reels has a pad break that most do not use in the performance of the effects. Most use their fingers to control the speed.

Power has nothing to do with a reel as well. You don't need power for the Serpent Silk or the silk thru microphone stand effects. Correction, it has all the power and speed it needs to perform with a 24" silk, the Rice Serpent silk, or a rope.

Seems you are making comments that have no bearing on the apparatus. If you would like to explain your comments, I am sure those of us that have used the reel for over 50 years can explain things to you.
[/quote]
I concur, and I second the post - except for the part of using the Kirkendall for over 50 years for on my own behalf, I am not old enough to claim that, but I have used one for over 10.
Message: Posted by: Dr. Solar (Sep 4, 2011 02:26AM)
Ouch! For heaven's sakes, you got me on this one. I should have known!
Message: Posted by: hugmagic (Sep 4, 2011 06:29AM)
Wm is correct. The brake is not used by most guys as it is hard to reach. Just run the line through your fingers. Jay Marshall always used a 24" 6 momme silk with his.

My father went to school with George Kirkendall. George's dad's pilot license was sign by Orville Wright (truly). So I guess I am a young whipper snapper compared to you guys. I knew George myself for over 25 years.

Richard
Message: Posted by: Sealegs (Sep 28, 2011 04:32PM)
I didn't find my Kirkendale reel to be anywhere near as powerful enough for the silk through mic stand. I have re-tensioned the reel and changed the thread for something much more resistant to breaking and both things have certainly helped but it's still not as good as I feel it needs to be to be completely confident in using it for this effect.

I also use one of Tannens utility reels which looks almost indistinguishable from the Kirkendale reel. I have also re tensioned and re threaded this utility reel and rather suurprisingly this is the one I use regularly in my show as it's the one that seems to be the most reliable, the quitest, the quickest and is therefore the one I have most confidence in.

At some point I am certain to purchase one of El Duco's reels (provided they are still made and stocked) and see how that compares.
Message: Posted by: hugmagic (Sep 28, 2011 08:15PM)
I agree that you must be comfortable with reel and it is a personal thing. I have not had problems with the Kirkendall or P&L reel. You certainly can put in new thread and retension it to some degree. Tannen's may look like Kirkendall's but it is nothing close machine wise inside.

I think it also has something to due with the size and weight of the silk used.

But I certainly respect your opinion.
I just don't agree with it.

Richard
Message: Posted by: Bjarne (Sep 29, 2011 02:41PM)
My friend bought the last two El Duco reels available. El Duco is taken over by Gycklaren Magic Marketing (also in Sweden) which does not seem to have any plans to resume production. He lent me one of them for a few weeks, and it beat my reel hands down.
Are there other good alternatives than the Kirkendall reel?
Message: Posted by: Sealegs (Oct 3, 2011 02:42PM)
Bjarne;

I don't know why your friend thought he'd bought the last 2 reels. Gycklaren Magic tell me that they have them in stock.
Message: Posted by: Dr_J_Ayala (Oct 3, 2011 02:45PM)
Just FYI Sealegs, the other reel you are referring to is Kirkendall, not Kirkendale. I am extremely confident that you will greatly enjoy your El Duco reel!
Message: Posted by: Bjarne (Oct 7, 2011 01:41PM)
Sealegs, you are right. My friend was conned by a dealer who wanted a quick sale. Gycklaren does still produce them. I got mine from Gycklaren today. It was expensive but I have great hopes for this little toy.
Message: Posted by: Harry Murphy (Oct 7, 2011 05:07PM)
Martin Breese carries a line of super reels comparable to both the Kirkendal and the El Duco.

http://www.abracadabra.co.uk/

I use Paul Diamond reels. Paul taught me the proper handling and I bought four. Still on my first one after over 30 years but won't give up the others. They are not being (and haven't been) produced.
Message: Posted by: magiclimber (Oct 17, 2011 04:53PM)
Does anyone else have insight to the martin breese reels? I also found the GK reel to be too weak and slow.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Oct 17, 2011 07:58PM)
[quote]
On 2011-10-17 17:53, magiclimber wrote:
Does anyone else have insight to the martin breese reels? I also found the GK reel to be too weak and slow.
[/quote]

To weak and slow for what? The Martin Breeze Unique Magic Studio reels are similar to the P&L and Kirkendall reels.

Reels do not have to super strong or fast as lighting to perform with. If you are looking for the silk threw microphone stand or cup handle, any of the reels work just fine. Then it is your technique, not the reel.

As a general statement, I find members on the Café I like to blame the equipment instead of their lack of knowledge and abilities. Once one finds the equipment, research how to use it correctly.
Message: Posted by: hugmagic (Oct 17, 2011 09:30PM)
I am not sure if the new Kirkendall reels are made exactly the way George did. I must say again I have always found it to be satisfactory. Using a proper weight and size silk it should work fine for you.

If there is a problem with it, I would contact where you bought it and let them know.

I wish I lived closer I would be happy to look and it and see if there is a problem with the reel or your technique.

Richard
Message: Posted by: Dr_J_Ayala (Oct 18, 2011 09:04AM)
I agree with William and Richard. If you are having a problem with a Kirkendall, then either it has been used incorretly and damaged somehow, or you have a poorly-made re-production/knockoff, or your technique needs practice and tweaking. I have never had issues with my original Kirkendall and the only maintenance I have ever had to give it was to lubricate the mechanism when it needs it. The same, practically maintenance-free life has held true for my El Duco reel as well.
Message: Posted by: magiclimber (Oct 18, 2011 11:42AM)
To address:

I bought the reel, new, from Stevens, so I think and assume it is a legitimate GK reel. Not sure if they still make them (the GK reels) like they use to. When did you (wmhegbli and hugmagic) buy yours? If the production changed we could be comparing apples to oranges even though both are GK brand. One note concerning the quality of MY reel: After only a few pulls, I noticed what looked like the thread beginning to fray. For the people who use the GK reels, has this ever been a problem? Did you retension the reel? Change the thread?

It is very possible that my technique needs practice. I showed the reel, with lightweight silk, to two older, very knowledgeable magicians and both, independently, concluded is was too slow. Yet, others here on the Café, say the reel works great so who knows.

Perhaps wmhegbli or hugmagic could post a video, pictures, or detailed text of the set up and operation. To show lengths, friction points, tips, potential problems, etc. I know that's a lot to ask, but others here on the Café have said the same thing. I assume the length the silk must travel could play a part in its secret journey becoming known. The concern I have is even after the set up, the speed at which the reel pulled did not even seem close to portraying the illusion. This could mean the reel is defective, or my set up is wrong, or really any number of things. I researched the reel book and what I could find in tarbell (which wasn't much) and still have problems.

Either way, I am adament about find a reel that works well and it dependable.

Thanks for the feedback!
Message: Posted by: hugmagic (Oct 18, 2011 01:07PM)
Sounds to me like the reel is not made to original standards. Just because some one has the parts and the trademark stamp, it it does not mean they know how to put it all together.

First, I would contact Stevens and let them know of the problem. I know they would want to know if there is a problem.

I have some over 35 years old and some I bought second hand and reworked. All were made by George Kirkendall himself.

If you can not reach a satisfactory resolution through Stevens, I would be happy to take a look at it and rethread and adjust the tension on it.

Richard
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Oct 18, 2011 03:51PM)
Magiclimber, your statement tells me you expect the reel to do the magic for you. "... the speed at which the reel pulled did not even seem close to portraying the illusion."

Again the reel does not do he trick, it is only an assistant. You are expecting the reel to cause the penetration, it does not.

I am sorry but a tutitorial on the reel would be exposer. I can suggest you replace the working thread with 3 pound fishing line.

I offered the Paul Diamond Reel video that will explain solutions for your problems, you rejected the offer. There is a booklet called the REEL MAGIC.
http://www.stevensmagic.com/product/other-instructional-books--reel-magic---book__111573.htm

You will find instructions for the reel here: http://www.gary-michaels.com/kirk.html by George Kirkendall.
Message: Posted by: magiclimber (Oct 19, 2011 09:24AM)
I did not see where you offered the Paul Diamond Reel video. I have the reel magic booklet, as previously stated. Also I will contact Stevens and discuss.

But to a point, yes, I expect the reel to do SOMETHING. Otherwise I wouldn't have it attached to a silk. However, those were only my thoughts and since two of you are adamantly recommending and standing by the GK reel, I'll look into it again.

Thanks for the other links.
Message: Posted by: magiclimber (Oct 19, 2011 03:18PM)
You are right, you did offer me that video. You offered to sell me a homemade copy for $35.

Quoted from your PM:
"I have made a copy of the Paul Diamond VHS video on Reel Magic, if you would like a copy that will explain what you need to know and how to handle the reel for the trick you are seeking, I will sell you a copy of the video for $35.

You can buy the reel at many different magic shops, and the 24" silk"

Just thought the Café should know, in case they want to buy it. Once again, how are you affiliated with Paul Diamond Magic, or authorized to sell his products?
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Oct 19, 2011 03:34PM)
Once again, I am not selling the video, I am changing for all other services, production, package, disc, mail, fees, etc. The video is free, but being it is electronic media, it has to be stored on something. If someone whats something they should pay the expenses to get it to them. This is an out of production item, and will not be produced in the future. This is not a Paul Diamond Magic product, Paul sold his business to another party, but not this video set.

As I informed you I have withdrawn my offer to you for this information. If you ever get to Fort Wayne, you can visit and I will let you view the video tape at my place for free. LOL
Message: Posted by: Rainboguy (Oct 19, 2011 11:09PM)
I wish I still had my Thornton Windlass from Kantner's.......that thing was built like a tank and I used it for just about anything on stage that required it.....like a card fountain, or flying silk from glass to offstage, for example.

I think I donated it to the "Charitable gifts to worthy magicians" fund......some of my magic friends needed props at some points and that was one of them...

Just a tip here......again.....I suggest buying the Albenice Reel Magic booklet FIRST....LOTS of great stuff in it regarding tricks and tips with reels. Also, if you ever get a good reel like a Kirkendall, El Duco, etc......it will pay you to learn how to correctly dissemble and repair it,,,,and that takes patience...
Message: Posted by: magiclimber (Oct 20, 2011 04:53PM)
Thanks! I'll look into getting that book.