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Topic: New Jonathan Chase DVD Set
Message: Posted by: Jacob Smith (Oct 30, 2011 12:29AM)
I just ordered mine! This sounds pretty hard to believe, but with a great like Jonathan being the mastermind behind it, it becomes a lot more believable:

http://www.hypnosistraininggroup.com/hypnosis-installed/

Any thoughts?

-Jake
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Oct 30, 2011 07:27AM)
Subliminally installing the skills of hypnosis sounds like hokum to me.

His Deeper and Deeper is good, but I am not interested in this latest offering.
Message: Posted by: snm (Oct 30, 2011 05:42PM)
I'll wait for the reviews. Pretty high price tag for something I don't feel will be all that great.
Message: Posted by: Jacob Smith (Oct 31, 2011 12:12PM)
I mainly purchased it because the first one hundred get a bunch of bonuses, one of which is a $200 credit for any HTG Live event and I am saving up for the hypnotherapy training even in May :P I will be sure to post up a detailed review regarding it after I watch it and process all the information but with Jonathan backing it I think it automaticly has the potential to be an amazing project.

-Jake
Message: Posted by: snm (Oct 31, 2011 05:45PM)
Yeah but that's really only like $50 off because you had to spend $150 for Hypnosis Installed. lol

Really looking forward to your review though!
Message: Posted by: JasonR (Oct 31, 2011 06:04PM)
[quote]
On 2011-10-31 18:45, snm wrote:
Yeah but that's really only like $50 off because you had to spend $150 for Hypnosis Installed. lol

Really looking forward to your review though!
[/quote]

Maybe. It's possible to look at it as prepaying $150 to HTG, getting another $50 off from them for live training, and getting the DVDs and other bonuses for free on top of that. And that also presupposes that he doesn't get any perceived value from the DVDs themselves. If he has any intention of taking a live training there any time in the near future, it's a no-brainer.

I have to admit that I'm a bit skeptical of the premise (I keep getting an image of Keanu Reeves in The Matrix waking up and declaring, "I know kung-fu".), but like you said I am really looking forward to the review.
Message: Posted by: snm (Oct 31, 2011 07:25PM)
I suppose my main concern is that there will be a lot of overlap between this and the Trily Connection set. Jon Chase is the one who trained Ant after all.

The second disc sounds like it will teach some Symbolism techniques for therapy. I'm afraid this will be too similar to what Jeffrey Stephens teaches on his DVD set.

Only time will tell I suppose.
Message: Posted by: Jacob Smith (Oct 31, 2011 09:53PM)
I do agree with everyone on here that the idea of something being "installed" sounds a bit far fetched and a suggestion in itself, but then again like JasonR said above it is kind of like a $200 off ticket where I get a free big set of bonuses and so on regardless if I feel it is useful or not. I haven't heard about Jeffrey Stephans, so I can't really compare the symbolism bit, but it does sound really interesting and the way I look at it any book or DVD put out by someone who has really promoted the hypnotic arts is not the exact same thing as anything else put out. Basicly what I mean is, regardless if I like this, love this or pull the old Office Space ceremonial destroying of the printer move on the DVD's, I know I will get something out of it whether it is thinking "oh that's cool..." or "oh that's cool!!!" I still learn. By the way JasonR, the Matrix came to my mind too when I read about it, if I do end up at the end of disc one saying "I know Hypnosis mastery" I will be sure to mention it :P

-Jake
Message: Posted by: JasonR (Nov 1, 2011 12:10AM)
[quote]
On 2011-10-31 20:25, snm wrote:

Only time will tell I suppose.
[/quote]

Regarding the overlap, we'll have to wait for the review to find out (and hope the reviewer has the material you mentioned so they are able to compare). But even if there is an overlap, it could still be valuable to anybody who doesn't already own the material you mentioned.

Just to be clear, I'd [i]really[/i] like it to be true and work as advertised. And if it does work as advertised, I'd also really like it to not get any exposure outside this forum... :)
Message: Posted by: dmkraig (Nov 1, 2011 10:51AM)
[quote]
On 2011-10-30 08:27, TonyB2009 wrote:
Subliminally installing the skills of hypnosis sounds like hokum to me.
[/quote]

It may be. Not having seen it I couldn't say. However, I have attended some hypnosis trainings and then re-taken them. (In good trainings, there is often more information shared than can be appreciated by the student. I have always learned more by taking a training more than once.) Upon re-taking the training, I have noted that the trainer subliminally installs (or attempts to do so) concepts that can help practice. I've also observed this in various NLP trainings.

I have to admit that I, too, am dubious about any course subliminally installing the basic skills of hypnosis. That sounds awfully Harold Hill to me. But subconsciously installing concepts and skills that enhance basic, consciously learned techniques is a real possibility. In fact, that is often the way we learn, unconsciously picking up things through observation of others.

But again, whether or not this set achieves the goal of subliminally installing skills is not only an unknown, but because the technique is below or conscious awareness (the very definition of "subliminal") we actually have no way of knowing what those "skills of hypnosis" to determine if it is actually being done.

This sort of reminds me of a set of audio tapes one company was selling as "subliminals" for various purposes. It turns out that their idea of subliminal was to mix the suggestions to such a low volume relative to the rest of the music on the tape. When I pointed out that these were subaudible tapes and not subliminal tapes, the producer first asked me to describe the difference. When I explained that while, at best, there was minimal and only suggestive evidence to support subliminals in audio recordings and no evidence to support the effectiveness of subaudibles (where the suggestions cannot be heard), he became quite defensive. It may have been because he had sold thousands of his subaudibles and was afraid of being sued for fraud.
Message: Posted by: JasonR (Nov 1, 2011 02:48PM)
[quote]
On 2011-11-01 11:51, dmkraig wrote:
But again, whether or not this set achieves the goal of subliminally installing skills is not only an unknown, but because the technique is below or conscious awareness (the very definition of "subliminal") we actually have no way of knowing what those "skills of hypnosis" to determine if it is actually being done.
[/quote]
You make an interesting point. Theoretically, and again assuming it works as advertised, one could not be consciously aware of the process, but notice the result (the ability, or an improved ability, to hypnotize people).
Message: Posted by: JasonR (Nov 1, 2011 02:52PM)
[quote]
This sort of reminds me of a set of audio tapes one company was selling as "subliminals" for various purposes. It turns out that their idea of subliminal was to mix the suggestions to such a low volume relative to the rest of the music on the tape. When I pointed out that these were subaudible tapes and not subliminal tapes, the producer first asked me to describe the difference. When I explained that while, at best, there was minimal and only suggestive evidence to support subliminals in audio recordings and no evidence to support the effectiveness of subaudibles (where the suggestions cannot be heard), he became quite defensive. It may have been because he had sold thousands of his subaudibles and was afraid of being sued for fraud.
[/quote]

You wouldn't be referring to Eldon Taylor, would you?
Message: Posted by: Mephisticator (Nov 1, 2011 03:42PM)
So... Hypnosis to learn hypnosis?...
Message: Posted by: dmkraig (Nov 1, 2011 09:48PM)
Jason R: No, I don't know Eldon Taylor.

Mephisticator: Many of the hypnosis instructors I know teach while in hypnosis and at least two training groups begin their instruction but putting students in a mild state of trance using an Ericksonian technique.
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Nov 1, 2011 10:27PM)
Subliminal advertising was a hoax from the start. And I know one person who put out very popular subliminal products to stop smoking and to lose weight. He openly admitted to those in his circle that it was just bland whale-song type music with no content. Pure con job.

Jon Chase has a good reputation, and he knows his stuff. But I am still very sceptical of "installing" the learning. I accept what Kraig says about NLP courses making attempts to do that, but that is live training. A generic DVD won't do that.
Message: Posted by: dmkraig (Nov 2, 2011 10:04AM)
While I don't think that subliminal advertising was simply a hoax, the evidence for its effectiveness has always been extremely limited and many of the marketers using it have taken that limited evidence and expanded it beyond anything legitimate. Specifically, some tests were done in a moderately controlled situation (movie theaters) with subjects having a high degree of expectancy (people going to movies often expect to buy drinks, snacks, etc.) and using only visual subliminals (briefly flashed on the screen). The result was a significant but non-remarkable increase in snacks and drinks. To the best of my knowledge this research has not been replicated and testing using subliminals in other senses (i.e., audios) has not been widely done nor has it shown a similar effect. Personally, I think that audio subliminals have not been tested for effectiveness because marketers of such audios don't want any negative results. Instead, they depend upon analogy (it worked for visuals so it SHOULD work for visuals) and anecdotal evidence (It's worked for me so it must work for you) and enjoy any placebo effects resulting from expectation. (I want to X and this audio is a subliminal for X. X happens to it must have been caused by the subliminal and not from me.)

However, I haven't really investigated this in some time so information may have changed. I'd be delighted to hear from anyone who can post any results of tests on the effectiveness of subliminals.
Message: Posted by: Anthony Jacquin (Nov 2, 2011 12:57PM)
I have the new set from Jon Chase and watched it yesterday. It is a good DVD, well produced with lots of gems from JC. You get 5 hypnotists (not JC) delivering 6 inductions as well as his Symbolism technique for change. I will review it properly soon.

It seems 'installation' is 'watching and listening' making this conversation rather funny. No talk of subliminals. This is all explained on the DVD in the best JC interview I have seen or heard. Every questions is on point and one I would have liked to ask him myself.

Anthony
Message: Posted by: Jacob Smith (Nov 2, 2011 01:59PM)
Thank you Ant for posting up your mini-review, I can't wait until this ships right to my doorstep :)

-Jake
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Nov 2, 2011 02:21PM)
Kraig, the whole subliminal advertising thing (and the cinema experiment) was a hoax perpetrated by James Vicary, who was trying to build up the profile of his advertising consultancy. It worked - for him.

Anthony, thanks for the info. The use of the word installation gave an impression that something sneaky was going on. I am not surprised it is a good DVD. I have read his book, which is solid.
Message: Posted by: JasonR (Nov 2, 2011 03:32PM)
[quote]
On 2011-11-02 13:57, Anthony Jacquin wrote:
I have the new set from Jon Chase and watched it yesterday. It is a good DVD, well produced with lots of gems from JC. You get 5 hypnotists (not JC) delivering 6 inductions as well as his Symbolism technique for change. I will review it properly soon.

It seems 'installation' is 'watching and listening' making this conversation rather funny. No talk of subliminals. This is all explained on the DVD in the best JC interview I have seen or heard. Every questions is on point and one I would have liked to ask him myself.

Anthony
[/quote]

Hey Ant,

I think the reason for the discussion is the following product description, directly from the OPs link:
[quote]disc 1: The Installation. Watch this with your favorite set of headphones and [b]let The Installers put the vital skills to hypnotize people into your subconscious![/b] One of the most unique learning experiences of any Hypnosis training ever. [/quote]

I'm not knocking the quality of the product; I haven't seen it, and JC enjoys a favorable reputation. But the way the description is worded, it at least implies that there is more than just watching and listening going on, ya know? Based on the above description, it really does make it sound like by the time disc 1 is finished, you're going to be the Neo of hypnosis. Marketing is marketing, but if it gets too hyperbolic, it's to be expected that people are going to ask questions.

At any rate, I'm glad to hear you're giving it a positive review.
Message: Posted by: Anthony Jacquin (Nov 2, 2011 03:54PM)
Well disk one shows you the inductions. So skills to hypnotise people is not overstating it. Neo??? You need practical for that. You can only deliver two out of three installation components on a DVD :)
Message: Posted by: snm (Nov 2, 2011 04:26PM)
Looking forward to your full review Ant!
Message: Posted by: PerryCarp (Nov 2, 2011 04:38PM)
[quote]
On 2011-11-02 17:26, snm wrote:
Looking forward to your full review Ant!
[/quote]

I'm really looking forward to a full review as well. Get to work, Ant! :)
Message: Posted by: Anthony Jacquin (Nov 2, 2011 04:41PM)
I will go and test The Mantis induction out first :)

Anthony
Message: Posted by: dmkraig (Nov 2, 2011 07:35PM)
Tony, upon further research, you are correct. Thank you for educating me on this.
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Nov 2, 2011 10:13PM)
[quote]
On 2011-11-02 20:35, dmkraig wrote:
Tony, upon further research, you are correct. Thank you for educating me on this.
[/quote]
No problem - you've educated me on an occasion or two!
Message: Posted by: snm (Nov 21, 2011 06:22AM)
This was supposed to ship out the 15th. Anyone got it yet? Really looking forward to a review.
Message: Posted by: mahucharn (Nov 23, 2011 09:53AM)
Looking forward to reading a review (and possibly buying) this.
Message: Posted by: snm (Dec 3, 2011 08:31PM)
Still no reviews?
Message: Posted by: mahucharn (Dec 4, 2011 02:51PM)
I believe that there were shipping issues. I know that Jake said that he would post one as soon as he had watched the set.
Message: Posted by: Jacob Smith (Dec 6, 2011 08:08AM)
Hey guys, guess who has two thumbs and just is watching his copy of Hypnosis Installed? This guy! So far I have got through the first two discs which were great and had some nice material, disc two was really really interesting and I intend on putting into my work ASAP! For those who are wondering about over lap from Trilby, there is quite a bit but at the same time there are quite a few things that are not in there too but then again you have to remember Jon did train Ant and Kev. Here is a list of what is available in the set material-wise:

Disc 1:

Magnetic Hands: Oh too classic and effective, it is interesting to see this done by multiple "installers" as they are know is kind of interesting because the whole process looks a little different than the script I use. This is some overlap, but as many, if not all of you know, this is a very effective little piece.

Eye Lock: This is the Elman classic eye lock, like I said above, a little bit of overlap again but at the same time a very effective little piece and it was nice to see how multiple people handle it to compare different scripts.

Arm Lock: Probably one of my favorite of the classic waking hypnosis pieces, I will say they had a cool little induction method after they get the stiff arm that I liked.

Mantis Hands: I have actually never seen this idea before, but it does put the participant in a nice spot where both hands are in a mantis like position in calalepsy where you can do whatever.

My Arm: Catalepsy of the arm done very quickly, this wasn't on Trilby and is a very nice demonstration that is quick and effective to demonstrate hypnotic phenomena.

Hand Take: I really like the way this one looks and the position it puts you in, its basicly a fusion handshake style induction with arm levitation. I liked it and will probably be using this little piece quite a bit.

Intensifiers: I don't really use intensifiers anymore since taking hold of the AI model, but at the same time if that is your model there are some good intensifiers that I actually liked just have no real use for.

Termination: Standard wake up proceedure, still use this to this day and like it quite a bit to get people out feeling amazing and feeling great.

Disc 2:

Hypnotic Symbolism: Ok this disc is completely on this subject and I like this little idea A LOT, I will say I don't know about other works released on this idea, but I am going to add this idea in immediantly. It is really effective changework made easy, what more could you want? :)

Disc 3:

Interviews and such: I liked the interviews quite a bit on here, there is some nice hidden information in here for those who watch them, the public questioning on hypnosis was very interesting because it gives you a nice insight into what the public thinks about hypnosis and what it is.

Overall: I liked this set and it had some great material, could you pick this up and learn something if your are a beginner or even a seasoned worker? Well yeah of course and the material is solid, but I would have to say if I had any gripes I would say that it didn't really cover any higher up hypnotic phenomena like amnesia or hallucinations or a lot of theory except in the hypnotic symbolism. To me this is not problem because I already know quite a bit of theory and didn't buy the set to get the two gripes, so I am stasfied but some people might not like this. Overall I was satasfied with my purchase and will probably get Hypnosis Installed 2.0 when it is released. Good job Jon and great product in my opinion!

-Jake
Message: Posted by: mahucharn (Dec 6, 2011 06:41PM)
Thanks for the review Jake! Do you think the concept of "installing" hypnosis works? I would love to hear your opinion on this.

Thanks,
Jordan
Message: Posted by: Jacob Smith (Dec 6, 2011 08:19PM)
I liked it, basicly you are told to sit in a darker room with some headphones to soak up the information more easily. Like I said, there isn't much theory, but what you learn is very useful and there are two through the screen inductions in the set to help you out too. If there is anyone else out there that has this set, please share your thoughts too!

-Jake