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Topic: If someone ask you that he wanted to learn a flourish cut would you teach him?
Message: Posted by: SuperMagic (Sep 14, 2003 02:34PM)
Of course we never reveal our secrets of magic, but if someone wanted to learn a flourish cut, would you teach him? I would. I had a couple people wanting to learn the Charlier cut, because it's easy. When someone else wants a real challenge, they quit and stick with the one handed cut.
Message: Posted by: Steven Steele (Sep 14, 2003 08:00PM)
I don't teach non-magicians anything. Non-magicians have no use knowing flourishes as they will only use it lower the art of flourishes to the level of mediocrity...sort of like giving everybody a TT.
Message: Posted by: djvirtualreality (Sep 14, 2003 08:05PM)
If they paid me I would. Flourishes and cuts are nothing magical, they just show skill and precision.
Message: Posted by: phantomace (Sep 14, 2003 08:08PM)
They are no different than techniques. If you wouldn't teach them your double lift, then you shouldn't teach them your flourishes.
Message: Posted by: Jordini (Sep 14, 2003 10:20PM)
Only if they were truly interested in card manipulation.
Message: Posted by: Review King (Sep 14, 2003 10:39PM)
If they wanted lessons I'd charge them. But I would NEVER show anyone anything concerned with magic. It takes skill to do the Charlier cut.

NEVER reveal anything we do!!
Message: Posted by: KC (Sep 15, 2003 07:34PM)
I do not have any problems teaching my friends how to do a Charlier cut or spinning a card on my finger. Some people also just want to know how to do a riffle shuffle.

There is definitely a gray area. I suppose that one could argue that teaching someone how to spin a card on their finger can diminish the magical impact if you spin a card after a top change. But if we take it from a purists' (no flourish) view, flourishes aren't magic. I have heard that from many magicians as I am more inclined to do flourishes.

K.C.
Message: Posted by: Review King (Sep 17, 2003 11:08PM)
Any flourish laymen can't do, they should not be shown how to do it. It cheapens what we do. 98% of my friends are laymen and I won't show them anything.
Message: Posted by: Bone (Sep 18, 2003 08:32AM)
Right, They can't.

Just teach them whatever they ask, make fast and not in details, they can't do anything. Except they are the real thing like Jordini has mentioned about.

Flourishes not effects.

Bone. :bat:
Message: Posted by: crazyhands (Sep 18, 2003 09:36PM)
How could I teach someone something for free, that has taken me so much dedication to perfect and perform and on top of that I paid for myself, when you downright know they’re not going to value what they've learned as much as you.
Message: Posted by: Jordini (Sep 24, 2003 12:07AM)
I don't see a problem with riffle shuffles and standard stuff most people can do. Besides, even if they wanted to learn sybil, AND you TRIED to teach them, laypersons just don't have the will to pay attention long enough. If they actually pay really close attention, and spend time learning this stuff, then they really want to learn it, and you should teach them. As long as you don't teach the pass. That a BIG no-no!! :dancing:
Message: Posted by: Lonnie Dilan (Sep 24, 2003 06:34PM)
The only people who ever want to learn cuts from me are really, really hot chics. So I teach them a Charlier cut. I don't see anything wrong with teaching them a simple cut. Who knows you may spark an interest in them and you may be looking at the next big thing in a few years.

You never, never know.
Message: Posted by: Jordini (Sep 24, 2003 07:27PM)
I teach the hot chicks how to shuffle. It's a more… hands on experience. LOL
Message: Posted by: Stick Man (Oct 23, 2003 04:58PM)
I give away any flourishes that someone wants to learn (won't be the case with SH+HL material), normally the self standing triangle and one handed riffle shuffle. As long as the person is dedicated enough to learn I will teach. Its not like giving away a secret like magic its just skill. Even a simple fan people will want to learn. You cant keep that from them. :phhhhhht:
Message: Posted by: zombieboy (Oct 23, 2003 06:54PM)
Some people already know some basic flourishes. During a walk-around job, I met one person, with no magical experience, who could do the Charlier cut! You never know.
Message: Posted by: Jordini (Oct 25, 2003 11:49PM)
I think that riffle shuffles are ok, but it didn't occur to me how difficult the Charlier actually is until I saw a new magician trying it out. I forgot how hard it was in the beginning. I was lucky if I could do one w/out the whole deck falling on the ground! Now I fire them off perfectly at around 37-40 a minute or something like that.
Message: Posted by: Dbzkid999 (Dec 1, 2003 09:10PM)
[quote]
On 2003-09-14 21:05, djvirtualreality wrote:
If they paid me I would. Flourishes and cuts are nothing magical, they just show skill and precision.
[/quote]

Lol, that's would I would do.
Message: Posted by: Madmonk (Dec 4, 2003 12:22AM)
I would tell them to go out and buy the card college books if they are real intrested.
Message: Posted by: Red_Wing_II (Dec 4, 2003 10:12AM)
Also remember there really isn't a whole lot that isn't seen in most basic flourishes, this is a skill that seeing it done also shows how to do it. The real beauty is seeing it done well which only comes from hours and hours of practice.

Flourishes are as much iceing as cake.
Message: Posted by: Roland Henning (Dec 8, 2003 09:08AM)
I teach them the one handed riffle shuffle. I show them the mechanics and tell them, they can do it too, if they parctice 4 hours a day for the next 7 years.

Works.

mmG Roland
Message: Posted by: DanielMooncalf (Dec 22, 2003 06:47PM)
Yep... If they want to learn, why not? If they want to learn a magic trick, I tell them the first trick I started to get good responses with. If they want to invest further, I'll tell them to get "Magic for Dummies"
Message: Posted by: rsummer27 (Dec 29, 2003 08:47AM)
As a juggler I have noticed that if you show someone how to juggle and they try it, then they can really understand how hard it is. I think to a certain point card florishes are the same way. Most people don't want to do home and practice beside the fireplace for three hours a day. If they try it and can't do it, then they respect you more for being able to do it.

I would never stop a routine to let someone play with my deck, but if someone looked for me after the show I would let them try some things.

I remember as a child when I would stay for hours after a magic show trying to get to talk to the performer for a little bit. The ones that were nice and understanding and shared just a tiny little bit with me influenced what I do today.
Message: Posted by: Black Magic (Jan 25, 2004 10:51AM)
Sure, 9 times of of 10 they won't get it. It's just a flourish. No big deal to me.
Message: Posted by: Badger (Jan 30, 2004 09:15AM)
I do not show them how to do anything. There are so many magicians who do not have experience, mess up their tricks in front of laymen and yes! laymen will see that Double lift or tilt. So there you go.
:bikes: :bikes: :bikes:
Message: Posted by: Adam Hince (Mar 4, 2004 12:06AM)
I'd say no. Most people how don't handle cards on a normal basis aren't going to be able to do anything anyway. Certainly they have this false assumption in their head they will be able to do it easily and fool their friends. There's not much chance they'll catch on.
Message: Posted by: The Rain Man (Sep 30, 2004 01:45AM)
It's been so long.
Flourishes are of beauty not magic, the only connection that they have with magic is that they make magicians look skillfull, sometimes a lot more skilful to laymen than they really deserve credit for. This is an argument that will live forever with no resolve, no matter how many find peace between the two, there will always be more people trying to solve the problem. The ultimate decicion of how you catagorise yourself between the two makes the decision on weather your here for the attention or the beauty of the art. I think it has become trodden on by some I can't name just for the show offs and money chasers. CC kept the art alive, and it still resides, it's just a lot more underground these days, that's how it should be.
It just keeps raining

http://www.magicbox.uk.com/product.php/909/11574/
Message: Posted by: dynamiteassasin (Sep 30, 2004 08:35AM)
NO, Definitely no for me! :)

If they still try to convince me, I'll teach them the easiest, "ribbon spread"..

"I will if they pay me for lessons".. like everybody says.. :dancing:
Message: Posted by: Burns (Sep 30, 2004 04:09PM)
OF COURSE!!!!!!!!!!!
they must know how hard it is to do a simple cut to be able to enjoy yyor skill!! take your time. go slow and theach the the charlier (they'll probably fail)
afther they fail show them a cut combo. GREA REACTIONS! even if they get it. make them do it again. now in both hands or faster. then do a both handed fast cut combo routine (aerials helps) really get em going. this is a GREAT start of a XCM Show. really get it going.

They NEED to know how hard it is to enjoy skill.
YES for gods sake TEACH EM!
but hey. no no on CTG, and stuff. the Charlier will be to much for them annyways. teach them to shuffle propperly and maybe the spring. I teach a lot of ppl the spring. and wow. the reactions when they almost make it. They know that it's hard and that it takes a lot of practise. just try doing a overhead spring followed by a upside down spring to a newb that has just sprung some cards from one hand to the other.

WOW.
Message: Posted by: MnemonicaRedux (Sep 30, 2004 08:03PM)
True, Burns, true... just like ol' De'vo said ;)

Show them TRULY how difficult a move is, and THEN they will appreicate it much more. The thing about us experienced people is that we tend to make it look easy... giving them the impression of "Oh, I could do that..."

But once they know how truly hard a move is, such as something as simple as a charlier, THEN they will be able to grasp the difficulty of the move, and thus will all paradigms about "juggling" and "too much time with the cards" be broken... they will see it as an art form.

Hehe

-Kev
Message: Posted by: Shane Wiker (Sep 30, 2004 08:48PM)
There is a special cut that I invented, and am very proud of.

Whenever I do it, people ask how I did it. I repeat the move, and even when I do it in slow motion, people are amazed.

I don't try to teach it to them, as I know they wouldn't be able to do it without weeks (If not months) of practice, but it seems like doing the move slowly makes them even more amazed than before.

That is, for flourishes, where skill and dexterity are the most important parts. I wouldn't do this with magic.

Shane Wiker