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Topic: kolossal killer presentation
Message: Posted by: playzure (Sep 18, 2003 04:03PM)
I was wondering if anybody has good patter and presentation for making a quick mentalism effect out of kolossal killer.
I'm a little confused by the presentation in the original manuscript -- " not much in here but I'll bet you anyway". As far as I see it this effect has two main possibilities as far as mentalism goes -- one is performing it in the style of truly invisible, something that takes a while to build up to but has a powerful climax. Another is making it short and powerful -- something that would be much more useful in walk around or for people with a low patience.

So far the way I've been doing it is to say think of a card any card, go ahead try to confuse me, flashing wallet empty and I say I'll even bet you I can prove that I knew in advance what card you would think of and then I drop it on the table, ask them to tell me what the card was and then reveal it in my wallet. The problem is I think this presentation is very boring plus people say things like " if you know what the card is I'm thinking of, why don't you just tell me?" Or " why should I tell you aren't you already supposed to know?" Does anyone have another quick presentation for kk that is more exciting and less problematic and if so could you please share it along with the exact patter that you use? If not any please address how to deal with those two spectator questions?

Also I just want to mention that I have read most of the posts on kk already and I have not found good answers to my questions there so please do not refer me to other posts unless you're convinced that I missed something.

Thank you,

Message: Posted by: Chad Sanborn (Sep 18, 2003 04:12PM)
I use Larry Beckers Arson method which is mentioned in the manuscript to get down to a specific suit. This gives you a natural storyline using fire.
Mine follows the line of a dream of watching my house burn down. All I could manage to save was one single playing card. I then employ Larry's brilliant technique and get the spectator to have the same dream and arrive at a card they too save from a fire. Low and behold the card they save matches the same card I saved! I then pull out the card which is even burned along the edges!

This is a favorite effect of mine. I always have it at the ready and it never fails to garner audible gasps from those who watch it.

Message: Posted by: shrink (Sep 18, 2003 04:26PM)
I talk about and demonstrate language patterns for real. I then at the end as kind of last thought mention I always carry one card in my wallet..

If there are more than one person I ask both to try and guess what the card is. I use some suggestion to force the colour althouigh you wouldn't know it. I say "my intuition tells me you will be closest". I then ask them which card they are guessing. If I can use the one that i said would get it right I do, if not I use the other which is never wrong in my experience.

They are amazed obviously. Then they start to back track and try and work out what language pattern I used. They come up with some ingenious solutions which I never said but they beleive I did. Sometimes they say I started half an hour ago using overt suggestions.

They always think its genuine and keeping a straight face can be difficult.
Message: Posted by: playzure (Sep 18, 2003 04:31PM)
On 2003-09-18 17:12, Chad Sanborn wrote:
I use Larry Beckers Arson method which is mentioned in the manuscript to get down to a specific suit.

This is in the original manuscript or killer conceptions?
Message: Posted by: Scott Grimm (Sep 18, 2003 04:32PM)
Narrowing down the card is a much more clean way of selection. The "Think of a card" thing can be saved for other routienes. The patter is made a little better with some Wonder Words but this is just an effect that you should take time on doing. It sems too strong to do as a quick bar trick and narrowing down a card that a spectator chooses "on his own" is what makes it so unique.
Message: Posted by: Colin (Sep 18, 2003 04:55PM)
I use this effect as the opener to a close up act, however I just use 1/4 of the method, if you have this effect you will know what I mean. If you don't have it I highly recommend it!

The script I use whenever I'm performing this (thatís A LOT) is as follows...

"I'm going to try something a bit different tonight, normally I have people just name a card, but instead tonight I will have you eliminate every other card first to give us only one. I should point out I have one card in my wallet."

I use a Himber wallet with the 3-1 method, and on the single side leave the first card of one suit sticking out every so slightly.

"You look a bit confused to what I mean, but you will understand in a moment (Most people don't have a clue what you mean which you can use to you advantage)"

Depending on the suit you use, it will depend the forcing.

"First of all in the elimination process, I want you to name either red or black?"

If they name the required colour, just carry on if they name the different colour, just say "Ok so thatís the first thing we eliminate". Basically use the magicianís choice to get down to one card.

For the second part, once I have the desired colour remaining, I carry on as follows...

"Ok this time we will do it a bit differently as this time it's with the suits"

This covers me in case they don't name they don't name the desired suit, and then I can simply add that I told them I was going to be doing it differently.

This takes a bit of practice to master making it all sound convincing, and I am trying to explain my handling without revealing the method.

Once they are left with the desired suit you can have them name any card, and you are clear to pull it out your wallet. And to through anyone who doesn't have the effect, No! You don't have the full suit in there, that would be ridiculous.

I love this handling as it suits me, and I feel it is more drawn out and gives the effect the space it deserves.

Best Wishes,

Message: Posted by: Chad Sanborn (Sep 18, 2003 04:56PM)
its in Killer Conceptions. Sorry!

ps...this is also explained on one of Larrys tapes!
Message: Posted by: gio (Sep 18, 2003 05:25PM)
Ken Krenzel's Ingenuities (by Stephen Minch) contains "Fired Up" which is a variation on Becker's idea. I don't own either KK or KC so I cannot know how much the two methods differ.

Message: Posted by: Colin (Sep 18, 2003 05:37PM)
Ahh well,

I hadn't expected to have created it, as obviously its basically the magician's force (I don't have KC only KK), however it's the way I developed to present it, and if someone invented it first, well I'm proud to be thinking on the same level as the greats...suppose that's one way to look at it.

Best Wishes,

Message: Posted by: playzure (Sep 18, 2003 05:56PM)
Guys I really appreciate your suggestions but what I'm really looking for is the patter for the introduction to original KK without any elimination process in other words something like think of a card, here it is in my wallet but a little better wording/presentation. For example David Blaine does a version of the invisible deck where he simply has the spectators hold the deck and concentrate on a single card flipping over -- then he takes it back and shows that it has. An alternative to that is doing the Long version of the trick that comes on the written instructions - this is something I do not want. I want something like Blaine's presentation For KK something fast and powerful that can be presented as part of a quick three effect show that I might want to do while going out with my friends in a bar or nightclub. If I have already performed a couple of quick tricks, I don't want to launch into the elimination process KK because that seems inappropriate. Still KK seems like such a great thing to do while going out as opposed a giving a formal show because you always have it on you. Please let me know what you think. Thanks.
Message: Posted by: Robert Black (Sep 18, 2003 07:37PM)
Sometimes seeing is better than reading. Pick up Mr. Beckers tape and watch his presentation, it will clear up a lot for you. You can see where an how you want to adapt it for your own use. And you will have some great performance footage from a mental master. You want better than that ;)

Robert Black
Message: Posted by: Greg Arce (Sep 18, 2003 07:49PM)
How about just handing someone the wallet and staring them in the eye and saying, "I'd like to throw a thought into your mind. Let's make it simple... just a playing card. I've done it in the past, but sometimes I'm off by one... I've thrown an ace into someone's mind and they got a two... but that's good enough for me. Let's try. Now!! Name the card that just appeared in your mind."
Message: Posted by: Samuel Catoe (Sep 18, 2003 09:34PM)
How about this one? "Inside my wallet I have one card and one card only. Now it is not am Ace I will tell you that at the start. Because if you name an Ace and I pull one out, when you look back on this moment (and you will) you might say to yourself 'Self, he knew I would pick the Ace because that's what everyone picks.' No, what I am going to do is influence your choice, through subtle movements and gestures. I will direct you to choose the card I placed in this wallet earlier today. What card will you choose? Picture it in your mind, see the colors and the face of the picture. Do you see the pips running down the middle bam, bam, bam? Do you see it? Yes? What card do you see?"

Message: Posted by: lostpoet (Sep 20, 2003 11:14PM)
What Larry Becker tape is it explained on?
Message: Posted by: bekralik (Sep 21, 2003 07:32AM)
Mental Masterpieces video or DVD by Larry Becker. The effect is called Kolossal Killer III.

Message: Posted by: jlibby (Sep 21, 2003 08:53AM)
On 2003-09-18 20:37, Robert Black wrote:
Sometimes seeing is better than reading. Pick up Mr. Beckers tape and watch his presentation, it will clear up a lot for you. You can see where an how you want to adapt it for your own use. And you will have some great performance footage from a mental master. You want better than that ;)

Robert Black

I'll second that! Excellent presentation. If you don't have the tape... what are you waiting for?

See ya!
Joe L.
Message: Posted by: Colin (Sep 21, 2003 10:41AM)
On relection you could type up a list of every card, then have your audience pass it round, each member of the audience crossing off 2 or 3 at a time depending on the size of the audience till theres just one left, this one will match whats in your wallet.

This is just a variation of the classic Bingo routine again using elimination but on a larger scale.

You would just type it up without Aces so no one selected them, or if you typed them up in rows, eg..

Ace Hearts Ace Spades Ace Clubs Ace Diamonds
2 Hearts 2 Spades 2 Clubs 2 Diamonds
3 Hearts 3 Spades 3 Clubs 3 Diamonds

You could have audience members cross off a row at a time, beginning by you crossing off the Aces to show them what you meant.

You have them do this until one row of numbers remains, then you have three other people cross off the rows vertically until only one suit remains. This will leave just one card freely selected, and it helps that it includes a lot of the audience.

I hope that made sense.

Best Wishes,

Message: Posted by: asmayly (Sep 22, 2003 11:23PM)
You have to realize you're asking a bunch of mentalists how to present an effect that's fast and exciting, well, that's just counter-intuitive for mentalists--if it doesn't take at least 15 minutes, forget about it.

Samuel had a good idea earlier.

How about starting with a deck of cards and say you want them to choose a card and make a mental picture of the card in their minds. Then say wait, this is something you always wanted to try. You say, "I'll pick a card, and project the thought into someone's mind!"

You pat yourself down looking for something then take out your wallet. You take the deck of cards and randomnly select a card (smile to yourself content it's good enough). Lastly you turn around with the wallet that you put the card into (or rather inside your shirt or pants).

This now becomes a feat of mentally pushing a thought into the consciousness of mere spectator.

Running time: 5 minutes, tops.
Message: Posted by: Samuel Catoe (Sep 23, 2003 09:41AM)

I actually had the best presentation of KK ever while out with a friend of mine. His sister's boyfriend was with us and I had just finished performing Ted Lesley's "spectator as mindreader" routine and he looked at me and said "Let ME think of one now and see if you can find it." It took me a moment to figure out how as I was a little inebriated 'hic' but only a moment. The look on his face was priceless.