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Topic: Those of you Who perform White Star
Message: Posted by: Marqus (Jan 30, 2012 11:29AM)
I have such high hopes in using my recently purchased White Star but I've become disappointed.

First let me say that I'm not new to mentalism & have performed many paid performances. I decided to incorporate the White Star idea into my seance.

I did the original version of White Star for my wife and mother & my wife saw right through the method.

So then, the following evening, I tried the White Star Revisited version with two friends. One of the friends saw right through this version also. And I performed it in a 'subtle' way. (Those that have it should know what I mean.)

So I'm surprised at all of the praise it has gotten (which the trick does deserve the praise when it flies by people) but, I wonder if the spectators are amazed or just being polite & not saying anything as to the method.

I really want this effect to work, so I have some ideas that I'm going to try but it means adapting & creating all the photos/cards from scratch.

If anyone has run into similar disappointment with their White Star performance, please PM me & we can discuss it in more detail.

Like I said, I want to make this work.

Thanks
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Jan 30, 2012 11:40AM)
Weird... I honestly get good reactions... but I also have changed the presentation... I use those more as a demonstration of the power of certain Egyptian artifacts that can bridge the worlds of the living and the dead... and it is only one part of the entire act... one thing I did do, as I didn't like the modern text on the back - was white them out and then aged the suckers -I wrote DEAD and the names of the dead - it also lets me use them outside of just a titanic situation...

One thing you could do which I haven't so its pure speculation.... if you did what I do to make the cards more old and not precise looking - stripper deck it... then let people mix all the photos by hand over the table (patter about the wheel of fate, life and death, who by fire etc. if you like as they stir the images) gather them up and in the process do the deed as you make a nice pile to begin the effect.

Just thinking.
Message: Posted by: horganpaul (Jan 30, 2012 12:18PM)
Wow , I've used this over and over , its never failed me. I've aged my cards ,which helps.
However even aged cards aside , I think its all in how you frame the effect. I really give the intro socks and have often had one of my "mediums" in tears by the end of the presentation.
I also add a little bit of hypnosis to set the scene with the person (thank you Paul Voodini ).
In short I really , really come across as though this effect :
1) is 100% real and happening.
2) is meant to be (and is) emotional for everyone. in that I get invested in the effect and also get my "seers" invested in it on an emotional level.

In fact I performed it on 11/9/2011 for a group of about 30 and gave a 10 minute spiel about 9/11 being one of the turning points of the 21st century and introducing the sinking of the titanic as the turning point of the 20th century.
Where I live (Cork , Ireland) was the last stop for Titanic and Cobh (or Queenstown as it was then) is having a large remembrance of the event.
I'll be there , separating the lucky from the unlucky , the living from the dead.
Message: Posted by: Marqus (Jan 30, 2012 12:28PM)
The presentation is vitally important and it could be why I've run into problems but I still think my spectators would have figured it out even after the emotional presentation.

When I performed it, I did perform it as a test & then asked for comments.
In both instances, everyone was invested in the routine and LIKED it a lot.

They just seemed to figure it out quickly but they did enjoy the presentation.

As I've stated, I'll be (somehow) including this is my seance which is based on a haunted establishment.
I appreciate your thoughts & comments.
Message: Posted by: Diasgemini (Jan 30, 2012 12:29PM)
I have performed more than 100 times and always people goes wild. I do it in a "mentalist moves" and whit no guilty at all.
I don't know you, but do not question the White star, maybe you must question yourself.
Try to find a better way to do it. Try an one o one for the start. Practice your words when you do the change.
If you want help send me a mp.
:)
Message: Posted by: rklew64 (Jan 30, 2012 01:10PM)
[quote]
On 2012-01-30 13:28, Marqus wrote:
They just seemed to figure it out quickly but they did enjoy the presentation.
[/quote]

Gee, that's not good. Given this, I will reconsider getting this effect. I thought it was a tight effect.
Message: Posted by: Marqus (Jan 30, 2012 01:35PM)
It is a tight effect.

Being familiar with the method that this is based on, I bought it hoping for a different method.
White Star does deliver a different method - actually 5 different version!

I am very glad that I finally bought it. But when I read the method & put myself in the spectators shoes, I felt like some will be able to decipher the method. And I was right - they did decipher it rather quickly!
Like I stated, maybe the spectators are just being polite in some instances.

I've PM'd Dr. Spektor with my more camoflagued idea because I WILL perform this.

Maybe it is me and my presentation but I've seemed to initially get the same reactions that you all are getting. It's just that when I asked my test spectators what they thought of it, all 4 of them loved the presentation but 2 of them were able to figure the simple method.

Over in the 'Tricks and Effects' area, poster MMREED had similiar questions like I did and so did poster SillySymphony when she performed it for her husband.

Thanks for all of your comments.
Message: Posted by: docsteve (Jan 30, 2012 01:44PM)
Mark
Maybe your family are more magic-savvy perhaps? I know mine are, as they have to suffer me so much!

You use the cards to do Tony Chris's handling in Hamtpon Falls, which is my favourite , along with Nick trosts 8 card brainwave, to show o ly 1 card different from the rest - again on Tony's Hampton falls disc.

Finally I did play with a shi--- to use a truly mixed pack. In fact I wondered about a shiny black backed photo which would give enough reflection, and even a blank iPhone screen. The photo could then be turned to reveal a picture of the ship prior to revealing the separation.

Steve
Message: Posted by: Marqus (Jan 30, 2012 02:58PM)
Doc,

I was hoping you joined in!

Yes, I figured my wife might being 'magic-savvy' but the friends aren't.
I've considered Tony's Hampton falls but I don't think the spectator can handle the photos afterwards, and I want the photos to be examinable.

BTW, we're on the same wave length because I also was thinking of maybe using a shi--- and color coding.

Thanks.
Message: Posted by: docsteve (Jan 30, 2012 03:17PM)
Yeah Mark, you've hit on an important point - the White Star experience is about reading the info afterwards, and one that can really help cement the effect in the mind of the spectators.

Good to see you round here again BTW!
Message: Posted by: Lucien Astor (Jan 30, 2012 03:49PM)
With a little n**l-writing or confabulation technology, you can have the piles the counted, and pull out document that gives a number for a group of survivors, a group of the dead, and a group unaccounted for, like schrodingers cat, neither alive or dead...just missing.
Message: Posted by: David Thiel (Jan 30, 2012 03:49PM)
I had the same thought, Marqus. When I saw it, the method seemed painfully transparent to me as well.

But I've performed it probably 40+ times for small groups and never had a breath of suspicion. Just great reactions. When I perform this, it's within the context of a small event. Music is playing. There is candle-light -- and it's not presented at all as a "magic" trick. Remember the focus is on the guests and their "abilities."

Still -- it's an effect dripping atmosphere and wide open to a dynamic presentation.

I use a penny from the year the ship sank...other props as well...a number of visual and aural cues really help to muddy the waters.

David
Message: Posted by: takeachance (Jan 30, 2012 04:30PM)
I luv it and use it in one of my presentations for corporate lectures. The Titanic maritime disaster in central to the lectures theme. I didn't like the 3rd "mixed" pile so change it slightly to 3 distinct piles of, died, survived, & unaccountered for, clearly hand written on the back of each photo. The switch of the 3rd mixed pile always throws any in the know. I went to a printer and had the photo's reprinted so I could hand write on the back. They are postcard size.
Message: Posted by: Lefebure (Jan 30, 2012 04:58PM)
Only once, a spectator guessed how I had done. But it was enough for me to decide to change a bit my method. My personal advice would be to use a fxxxse cxx or mix the photographs at the really beginning. Remember that the photographs are not exactly a stack, actually only one is really important. What I usually do is give the pen to one spectator and the coin to another. The first spectator makes his choice and when I see that there is 2 or 3 cards left before the "key photograph", I just say..."Okay, you seem to be a good medium, but please remember that your friend must show his mediumnic talent too !"While I talk, most of the time, he takes the 2 or 3 remaining pictures, so HE stops there and give the other part of the pile to the other spectator, without any intervention from me (just a subtle suggestion).
This routine is great and can be combined with a full mentalism show. I have some projects with it for the 100th birthday of the Titanic wreckage. A fascinating myth of the XXth century.
Good luck !
Message: Posted by: Bill Fienning (Feb 2, 2012 11:23PM)
I have not yet aged the White Star cards, but I may eventually. Mine look new because I (supposedly) bought them at the museum gift shop when I was at the Maritime Museum of the Atlantic in Halifax, which has a large Titanic exhibit. I visited the museum when we were in Halifax for the Psychic Entertainers Association convention, so I am familiar with it. The museum has on display one of the famous wooden deck chairs which floated from the Titanic when it sank.

There is also on display an exact copy of the deck chair on which visitors are allowed to recline, which I did.
Message: Posted by: jerome96114 (Feb 4, 2012 05:27PM)
I do not know the method of White Star, but speaking of Effects where living and dead are divided:
I had similar problems with Lebanon Circles "From Hell"

How I manage to get the cards into one "bloody" pile and one "none bloody" pile (thogh quite obvious) noone found out so far,
BUT I had more then once - when handing the cards out in the end - spectators remember that one or two photos of the victim
pile were sorted by them in the choosing process to the non-victim pile, or the other way round, which of course spoiled, that
I did *the work*, but not them as claimed ...

So I do not perform it anymore ...

Anyone has an Idea on that?
(And NO, not giving the cards out / Not showing the faces again, after showing the sorted backs is not a solution I accept.)
Message: Posted by: Marqus (Feb 4, 2012 06:44PM)
Jerome,

That was ANOTHER problem I encounter with my wife (see my original post at the top).

She was already thinking that I was going to switch some photos because she remembered some of the photos she discarded.

I do have something I came up with but didn't try yet. I trying to gather new photos and also waiting for time to pass before I show her again.

But I totally understand where you're coming from.
Message: Posted by: Bill Fienning (Feb 4, 2012 09:02PM)
I give one spectator a "lucky" silver coin and the other spectator a copper penny that is not a lucky amulet. I show the cards one at a time to one or the other spectator. That spectator either accepts the card into a pile in front of him or rejects the card, so it goes into the reject pile in front of me. At the end, the spectator with the lucky coin has selected the passengers who lived. (Most of these were first class passengers, who were likely to have a lucky silver coin.) The other spectator who held the "not-so-lucky" copper coin selected the people who drowned. (The third class passengers would more likely have a copper penny in their pockets instead of a lucky silver coin.)

I ignore the reject pile in front of me.

PM me if you have questions about this.
Message: Posted by: DrTodd (Feb 5, 2012 01:32AM)
I have added a number of convincers and have done this as a stage presentation with powerpoint backdrop images of the pictures...I honestly believe it is all in the presentation, timing, and handling...

The reject pile is CRUCIAL to the whole success of the presentation...I simply do not understand those who ignore it...the powerpoint and reject pile reinforce each other....

Also, the objects should be CHOSEN by the participants not given to them...again, that is the whole point of the presentation....mine are a gold and ruby ring and a coin....when each is held, I reinforce the notion of the power of history 'Imagine the number of fingers that this ring has adorned, imagine the pockets and purses in which this coin has been...feel the passage of time in the weight and warmth of each object...', etc...

I have had so many people come and tell me that they had tingles down their spines...this is very powerful stuff folks...

Dr T
Message: Posted by: Marqus (Feb 6, 2012 07:21AM)
Thanks for the responses.

I believe that OOTW is a card trick and White Star is its own entity that resembles the OOTW ending.
OOTW is (usually) presented as a card trick.
White Star is presented as an EXPERIENCE which is why backstory makes it work more so than the method.

When I get an opportunity, I will post my presentation here. Right now, I'm trying to gather photos of folks from 1990 to present (and I'm having trouble finding such).

Dr. Todd, once I get everything settled with this, I'm heading over to buy your 'The Bequethment'.

Mark
Message: Posted by: aligator (Feb 6, 2012 09:42AM)
Why not just memorize the photographs?
Message: Posted by: docsteve (Feb 6, 2012 10:41AM)
[quote]
On 2012-02-06 10:42, aligator wrote:
Why not just memorize the photographs?
[/quote]

That's what Critchlow did!

I've played with white Star cards using Gampton Falls methodology, using photos looking either left or right.
Finally I snipped off one corner on 4 to make it bomb proof, and no one ever calls it.
Message: Posted by: aligator (Feb 6, 2012 11:15AM)
Memorizing the survived from the died does not take long and adds much to the presentation of the effect imo.
Message: Posted by: DrTodd (Feb 6, 2012 12:48PM)
[quote]
Dr. Todd, once I get everything settled with this, I'm heading over to buy your 'The Bequethment'.

Mark
[/quote]

Sounds great! PM when it comes....

Cheers

Dr T
Message: Posted by: mesmerist (Mar 31, 2012 07:54AM)
The whole thing for me with White Star is "setting the Scene " and using a couple of props
I use a 1912 and a 1914 penny
Its a little "psychometry experiment" that when its revealed I make sure I look as suprised as anyone
Stick with it , performit to "strangers" and you will get great reactions
Message: Posted by: MagiChrisMitch (Mar 31, 2012 09:02AM)
I just received my White Star. In preparation for it's debut,which is planned for the 100 year anniversary, I have bought some nice items that will be used to dress up it's presentation. A 1912 printed 1st edition hardbound copy of The Sinking of the Titanic by Logan Marshall, an aged repo of 2nd Class boarding pass & envelope, a 1912 Great Britin One Penny, a Titanic White Star Line Lapel Pin and a 1912 Boston Globe Newspaper. Plan on keeping everything in a nice wood momento box. These are all great little items that I believe will enhance my overall presentation of the routine. Looking forward to it. I think it will be very strong and people should enjoy handling the addition trinkets.
Message: Posted by: Uncle Joe (Dec 11, 2015 10:33AM)
I use Jon Armstrong's method if I'm doing a one on one .
If I'm using two spectators I use the basic 'White Star' method, but
I stretch it out. I pay more attention and detail to people in the unused pile.
This takes a lot of heat off the method.
Timing works for me.
Message: Posted by: Winks (Dec 11, 2015 11:05AM)
I threw out the original cards/photos and made my own from period studio pics using Photoshop and ageing. Never had a problem with them since.
Message: Posted by: Peter McMillan (Dec 11, 2015 03:00PM)
I as well got rid of the included photos and purchased original Cabinet Card Photos and wrote the info on the back. In addition I found an old photo album and created a collection of photos and flyers to give the impression of someone using it to conduct experiments in thru the veil contact, in addition to a brass key, fountain pen and english penny, newspaper and other goodies.
Message: Posted by: Fire Starter (Dec 12, 2015 07:21AM)
I do one type of version using a Peter Turner method, it does hit real hard at times. I think it does not matter how old they look or new, it is all in the presentation.
Message: Posted by: Al Desmond (Dec 12, 2015 10:33AM)
I've offered this before, but if you want templates to make a cabinet card version of this, minus what I consider the boring stuff on the back, and you don't have to look at the backs anyway, then I have templates for you and a script that goes along with the cabinet cards. A bit different presentation than what comes with the White Star instructions, more of a mystery story build, with a three part revelation.

Two things to note. These template are only for the two spectator version (which I feel is the best way to perform this or any of the other OOTW variations on the market) and second, I will ask you to prove that you have a purchased set of the original cards. If anyone thinks I'm giving away methods here and just asks for my templates and script, there is nothing in the script that will help you on method

PM me first.

I will ask for some proof of ownership and then I will need your personal email address to send you the materials.
Message: Posted by: Winks (Dec 12, 2015 11:49PM)
" I think it does not matter how old they look or new, it is all in the presentation." It matters to ME - the more authentic (which is why I do the backs also), the better I presentm it. As in a good novel - it is the suspension of disbelief.
Message: Posted by: Fire Starter (Dec 13, 2015 05:38AM)
[quote]On Dec 13, 2015, Winks wrote:
" I think it does not matter how old they look or new, it is all in the presentation." It matters to ME - the more authentic (which is why I do the backs also), the better I presentm it. As in a good novel - it is the suspension of disbelief. [/quote]

Please do not get me wrong, I love to have all my props as authentic as I can, but it is no good having all the wonderfull props if the story is not presentend well, that is all I say, goes without saying really.
Message: Posted by: viktorbc (Dec 13, 2015 12:58PM)
This is the basis of one of my favorite routines! http://magicandmurder.com/the-mysteries/the-titanic-connection/

I have performed it dozens of times! I have always received positive results from it!
Message: Posted by: weepinwil (Dec 13, 2015 04:08PM)
I used a modified version of Al's routine and a portion of his templates, it was a stunner. Thanks Al, for offering this.
Message: Posted by: thementalcoach (Dec 1, 2016 02:35PM)
I purchased White Star and ordered that Boston Globe Titanic newspaper. My first performance was to my scientist wife, who is a REALLY tough audience. My intro was that all of these people have something in common, at the same place and same time, then did the rest of the routine (she did both parts). Before the reveal, I brought out the newspaper, then the reveal. She took it very seriously (surprising me), said she could tell the d**d from the l****g by "the look in their eyes. Can't get much better than that!
Message: Posted by: Grasshop34 (Jan 10, 2017 12:35PM)
I agree with the original poster that the method seems very transparent and easy to figure out. I have White Star but have not tried it yet because it probably is easy to deconstruct the method. I do not like the reject pile at all. I was hoping for other methods not including the reject pile. I personally think people like the premise and performance and are polite about seeing through the method. Do any of you perform White Star not using the reject pile? Any resources for better methods? Thanks!
Message: Posted by: WitchDocChris (Jan 10, 2017 01:01PM)
I used to do an L/D that had a discard pile. I don't know if it's the same method here, but it was easy to use that pile as a convincer for the L and D piles - "And you made those choices from a random arrangement" (showing the mixed up discard pile)
Message: Posted by: Vic Nadata (Jan 10, 2017 01:18PM)
I, same as the good Witch Doctor, use it with a discard pile. However I do place them in a clear glass bowl. When showing the discard pile, it is very easy to give a quick mix. Always has worked for me.
Message: Posted by: ZoOpDoG (Jan 10, 2017 01:23PM)
There are a lot of effects out there that use this method and a lot of performers who have success with White Star. I own white star but have never used it for the general public because I know I cannot sell it. I don't believe it is interesting or believable making any method much more transparent. I do other spooky themed effects that use this same method and they are great every time. I would suggest it is not the method or the product but the presentation. I don't believe white star and so it stinks when I do it. I have 3 different friends who absolutely love it and it is well received every time. My guess is you need a better presentation or a different subject matter using the same method that you feel comfortable with. I know White Star is solid so I hang onto it in case inspiration one day hits me. The problem isn't White Star it is me.
Message: Posted by: DocBenWiz (Jan 10, 2017 02:31PM)
[quote]On Jan 10, 2017, Vic Nadata wrote:
I, same as the good Witch Doctor, use it with a discard pile. However I do place them in a clear glass bowl. When showing the discard pile, it is very easy to give a quick mix. Always has worked for me. [/quote]

Same here...always goes, over great. And I do not reveal anymof the Titanic theme until the moment of reveal. Start by handing one of two specs an antique pocket watch as "a token with which you may shortly connect in a manner of intuition" (later at the reveal, after some preliminary comments on the date and significance of the people involved and the "connecting event", described as "used by an officer on the Titanic to time the loading and lowering of lifeboats") and a Morgan silver dollar dated 1898, token, "used by two brothers to flip and decide who would be the last one to board a final lifeboat on which there was only one remaining space"

While specs are looking at final reveal photos (which I obtained as improved by Al Desmond) I pick up discard pile, mixing casually while commenting on the "randomness" of the pile. Discussion afterwards with or without the newspaper article which I also have.
Never been called out and goes over with quite the shocked reaction at the above reveal.

:thumbsup: :fyi:
Message: Posted by: thementalcoach (Jan 10, 2017 04:16PM)
I've modified how I do this. It is an intuition experiment with a stack of photos of people who have something in common. I keep the 1912 newspaper folded closed in my briefcase or under something else. I took Jamie Grant's advice and go with "does this photo feel good or not-so-good", etc. After the two chosen piles, I elaborate that what the photo people have in common is that they were at the same place, at the same time. Then I take out the newspaper (closed) and SLOWLY open it to the headline. I pay no attention to the third pile (discards) and if someone else does, I just say, those are the ones you didn't feel good (or bad) about. I imagine as if I am Vincent Price doing this in the parlor of a spooky mansion, no one is going to think "magic trick."
Message: Posted by: weepinwil (Jan 10, 2017 04:45PM)
I do this routine with Etherica providing a surprising end. I use a modified version of Bobby Hasbun's Third Death for the name reveal. Has been effective.
Message: Posted by: viktorbc (Jan 10, 2017 09:30PM)
I am happy to say that I have been touch with Jim Critchlow about my personal take on it with my custom cards. He is such a pleasant fellow!

I think the critics are falling into the same trap as many conjurors do. Being self-aware of the effect causes over analysis of said effect. The 2 Card Monty for example! I cannot believe anyone falls for it. But they do. Every. Single. Time.

I have used the discard pile with White Star hundreds of times and have never had anyone figure it out. Is it skill? Confidence? Perhaps my demoniacal supernatural assistance? I would be happy to demonstrate to anyone in Myrtle Beach this weekend.
Message: Posted by: The Supernaturalist (Feb 3, 2017 10:31PM)
Vince, I should have seen your post before ECSS and I would have requested. I have thought about picking up whitestar, but I have a couple of questions: is it a stand alone piece ( seems like it would be a closer in a close up act,maybe?) and how long are your routines? They seem long for close up? Thanks for sharing!
Message: Posted by: weepinwil (Feb 4, 2017 05:13PM)
[quote]On Feb 3, 2017, The Supernaturalist wrote:
Vince, I should have seen your post before ECSS and I would have requested. I have thought about picking up whitestar, but I have a couple of questions: is it a stand alone piece ( seems like it would be a closer in a close up act,maybe?) and how long are your routines? They seem long for close up? Thanks for sharing! [/quote]

I am not Vince, but I will give you my take on it. It can be used for closeup but I have also used it for parlor size magic shows. As far as I can tell,it works best with two spectators at the minimum and the more the merrier. Just a little audience management will work. As for length, that depends upon you, your props, and your ability to tell the story. I prefer a little length in my whether close-up or parlor. I suggest tailoring it for your audience and need and not just perform it out of the box.
Message: Posted by: MindReadingGeek (Feb 5, 2017 02:15PM)
Great to use additional props (like I've bought) l.e an antique pen and old British penny.
Message: Posted by: weepinwil (Feb 7, 2017 06:51AM)
[quote]On Feb 5, 2017, MindReadingGeek wrote:
Great to use additional props (like I've bought) l.e an antique pen and old British penny. [/quote]

I agree! Use of other props are great, but not really necessary. The less questioning of where I got rare items is better for me. If it doesn't play into the story as an active necessity, I don't use a lot of them. I use a newspaper, a letter, and the cabinet cards. However, an interactive experience, for me, is more valuable. I have questioned for a couple years how I can provide that experience and have come to a solution. For my next presentation I plan to waterboard all the participants after the performance to give them the drowning experience. I just hope it goes better than the buried alive experience I used for the POE Dopps effect last year.
Message: Posted by: Al Desmond (Feb 7, 2017 04:28PM)
I was wondering why there was a sudden increase in Caf users asking me for my script and graphics.

Now I know.

This topic got bumped recently.

And reading through some of the more recent comments, I see that some people are making us of some of my ideas.

Warms my heart (which I keep in a bottle on my desk).
Message: Posted by: salcioppa (Feb 11, 2017 10:15PM)
I use Whitestar all the time, now with Fathoms, and never had a problem. I bought Chris Philpott's French Post Cards, liked his handling, and use it for Whitestar, too. I love both effects. But I've never had anyone come even close to catching me out. Of course, about every 15 seconds I blurt out a cuss word and slam my fist onto the table for misdirection, so maybe that helps. : /
Message: Posted by: weepinwil (Feb 12, 2017 06:57AM)
[quote]On Feb 11, 2017, salcioppa wrote:
I use Whitestar all the time, now with Fathoms, and never had a problem. I bought Chris Philpott's French Post Cards, liked his handling, and use it for Whitestar, too. I love both effects. But I've never had anyone come even close to catching me out. Of course, about every 15 seconds I blurt out a cuss word and slam my fist onto the table for misdirection, so maybe that helps. : / [/quote]

Thanks, you just made me realize what I have been doing wrong all these years. I usually slam a cadaver head on the table for misdirection. The audience usually says the cuss word. I'll have to try the fist to see if it helps.
Message: Posted by: Delimbeau (Feb 12, 2017 08:22AM)
Will, your humor is an acquired taste. You make me laugh more and more. Hilarious. Luc.
Message: Posted by: ManxBull (Feb 12, 2017 08:36AM)
French Post Cards? Now you're talking my language! Added to my purchase list!
Message: Posted by: weepinwil (Feb 12, 2017 06:56PM)
[quote]On Feb 12, 2017, Delimbeau wrote:
Will, your humor is an acquired taste. You make me laugh more and more. Hilarious. Luc. [/quote]

Making people laugh is my profession. At least smile big. I lace the suture from the corners of the mouth, through the upper palate, and tie them off in the septum. I can make you smile as big as I want by a simple tug on the suture. Thanks for recognizing my humble expertise.


Weepin' Willie
"Your last (S)Mile is my first priority!"
Message: Posted by: Uncle Joe (May 10, 2017 12:09PM)
The French postcards handling is Jon Armstrong's and Chris Philpott credits him for this.
I also use this handling for White Star and only use 24 cards total.
Works perfectly.
Message: Posted by: Gismologic (May 10, 2017 07:41PM)
I really am very fond of Al Desmond's approach.. it actually KILLS with "From Hell "(5th Anniversary).
Although, I recall first hearing about this method at ECSSI, as applied by Paul Noffsiger using The Alchemist Bane ( I don't quite know who was first :)
The important thing is to choose appropriate "talismans" for them to clutch while "divining" their choices.
One wrinkle I have used is to have them mix up the face up cards like they would when they were Four years old to tap into their inncocent & intuitive selves.
This technique is good w/smaller cards for these OOTW effects.
I do not use this innocent mixing technique w/From Hell BiG 5th Anniversary images..
Good stuff & great results
Message: Posted by: Gismologic (May 10, 2017 07:45PM)
Actually, as I recall, Eugene Berger used a "talisman" in the dominant hand while the cards were turned with the "off" hand to keep the spec slow while doing the traditional OOTW red/black effect.
Message: Posted by: TCG438 (May 27, 2017 05:09AM)
Re: The discard pile. In the instructions it states,'You now have to somehow mix all the photos in the centre pile.'
I feel rather dirty trying to execute what the creator suggests.
Does anyone have a better and/or more innocent, less obvious handling?
Message: Posted by: DocBenWiz (May 30, 2017 03:31PM)
[quote]On Jan 10, 2017, DocBenWiz wrote:
[quote]On Jan 10, 2017, Vic Nadata wrote:
I, same as the good Witch Doctor, use it with a discard pile. However I do place them in a clear glass bowl. When showing the discard pile, it is very easy to give a quick mix. Always has worked for me. [/quote]

Same here...always goes, over great. And I do not reveal anymof the Titanic theme until the moment of reveal. Start by handing one of two specs an antique pocket watch as "a token with which you may shortly connect in a manner of intuition" (later at the reveal, after some preliminary comments on the date and significance of the people involved and the "connecting event", described as "used by an officer on the Titanic to time the loading and lowering of lifeboats") and a Morgan silver dollar dated 1898, token, "used by two brothers to flip and decide who would be the last one to board a final lifeboat on which there was only one remaining space"

While specs are looking at final reveal photos (which I obtained as improved by Al Desmond) I pick up discard pile, mixing casually while commenting on the "randomness" of the pile. Discussion afterwards with or without the newspaper article which I also have.
Never been called out and goes over with quite the shocked reaction at the above reveal.

Used a couple weeks ago and follwed my above routine up to the reveal of the Titannic connection as I describe above, then pulled out the vintage newspaper and went into the fabulous "Fathoms" effect right afyer, with fantastic reactions and results with my "after dinner" couple!
:thumbsup: :fyi: [/quote]
:readingbook: :applause:
Message: Posted by: DocBenWiz (Jun 6, 2017 01:41AM)
Hey there,...For those of you who love the Titanic themed routines,....I noted over on the "big auction site" an offer of Fathoms, along with some relevant props, newspaper/ magazine, ephemera.
I have and love "Fathoms" and recently used it with great freakish results as a follow up to my White star routine.
Looks to me like a good buy. :fyi:
Message: Posted by: Delimbeau (Jun 6, 2017 04:36AM)
Thanks Ben!
Message: Posted by: AceOfJokers (Jul 11, 2017 08:25AM)
I keep my cards in a 'Titanic' brand enamelled tea tin. I've used sandpaper and a grinder to remove some of the tell-tale graphics that give away the fact that the tin is contemporary, such as the bar code and website address, and to generally age and distress the tin. And inside that, along with the cards, I keep a number of 'Titanic' related items I've picked up here and there. It's a neat little package.
Message: Posted by: DocBenWiz (Jul 11, 2017 08:47PM)
[quote]On Feb 4, 2012, Bill Fienning wrote:
I give one spectator a "lucky" silver coin and the other spectator a copper penny that is not a lucky amulet. I show the cards one at a time to one or the other spectator. That spectator either accepts the card into a pile in front of him or rejects the card, so it goes into the reject pile in front of me. At the end, the spectator with the lucky coin has selected the passengers who lived. (Most of these were first class passengers, who were likely to have a lucky silver coin.) The other spectator who held the "not-so-lucky" copper coin selected the people who drowned. (The third class passengers would more likely have a copper penny in their pockets instead of a lucky silver coin.)

I ignore the reject pile in front of me.

PM me if you have questions about this. [/quote]

Bill, I look me your idea of lucky coins. Since about the s condition time I performed White Star I had an idea and used my grandfather's antique pocket watch and a Morgan dollar as "tokens" (without saying anything about the Titanic) which perhaps will aid their "intuition" and "will have meaning a little later". Then aftet the sorting, etc, I finally reveal the tokens as having allegedly been used at the Titanic crisis, the watch by bursar timing the lifeboats and the coin flipped to determine who got the very last space on the last lifeboat.
Message: Posted by: DocBenWiz (Jul 11, 2017 08:59PM)
[quote]On May 30, 2017, DocBenWiz wrote:
[quote]On Jan 10, 2017, DocBenWiz wrote:
[quote]On Jan 10, 2017, Vic Nadata wrote:
I, same as the good Witch Doctor, use it with a discard pile. However I do place them in a clear glass bowl. When showing the discard pile, it is very easy to give a quick mix. Always has worked for me. [/quote]

Same here...always goes, over great. And I do not reveal anymof the Titanic theme until the moment of reveal. Start by handing one of two specs an antique pocket watch as "a token with which you may shortly connect in a manner of intuition" (later at the reveal, after some preliminary comments on the date and significance of the people involved and the "connecting event", described as "used by an officer on the Titanic to time the loading and lowering of lifeboats") and a Morgan silver dollar dated 1898, token, "used by two brothers to flip and decide who would be the last one to board a final lifeboat on which there was only one remaining space"

While specs are looking at final reveal photos (which I obtained as improved by Al Desmond) I pick up discard pile, mixing casually while commenting on the "randomness" of the pile. Discussion afterwards with or without the newspaper article which I also have.
Never been called out and goes over with quite the shocked reaction at the above reveal.

Used a couple weeks ago and follwed my above routine up to the reveal of the Titannic connection as I describe above, then pulled out the vintage newspaper and went into the fabulous "Fathoms" effect right afyer, with fantastic reactions and results with my "after dinner" couple!


Hey Guys, I just want to let you all know that I credit Al Desmond with the balance of my routine, from the pick up of the discard pile, and leading into the use of the newspaper and then the idea to lead in to the use of Fathoms. I also bought Al's improved photographs as well as his newspaper, ephemera.
I bought my White Star shortly after its release and by the second performance I independently decided (after finding my grandfather's antique pocket watch and a Morgan dollar from late 1800s) to use them as "tokens" in sort of an "intuitive psychometry" approach. I also decided not to mention or reveal the Titanic" connection until after the sorting at the end. I do credit Al Desmond, with many thanks, for the adapted script ideas subsequent to buying his photos and ephemera.
I hope this clarifies the credit acknowledgement for Al.
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Jul 23, 2017 03:14PM)
My father purchased this effect when it first came out he said. I was impressed with it, being young and actually getting to see my father do something other than the chop cup or cups and balls.
I came across it last year and my father tutored me on it and I practiced my heart out on it. Now being from a family of magicians and growing up around magic I was not going to perform it until
I knew I was ready and would not slip up. To make.a long story short I had my friends over and they asked me to do some magic, so I did my fathers rendition of the cups and balls. I waited oh,
about a half hour or so and went into the routine of White Star. Not a single soul <no pun intended > caught me or saw right through it. Did I just get lucky? That was the one and only time
I ever did it for an audience. My favorite has always been Aunt Mary's Terrible Secret. The effect my friends like is the seance we have some times when they come over. I use a spirit bell and
it just blows them away and scares them at the same time.

Jake Jr.
Message: Posted by: JimCritchlow (Nov 15, 2017 04:47AM)
I have just stumbled upon this thread so I apologise for not commenting sooner. I think it is fantastic that so many people have made the trick and presentation their own. I do smile when people change the props, the method and the presentation, but that great. It's a storytelling effect and storytelling is a personal thing so it has to be changed to suit the performer. I am very proud of this effect and humbled when people go to the effort to make it their own.
I am sorry if some people have struggled with the method and sometimes when I perform I do feel guilty because it's so simple, the magic community have come up with lots of subtleties which help.
Jim Critchlow
Message: Posted by: rickmagic1 (Nov 15, 2017 10:03AM)
I performed this during a Halloween show just three weeks ago. One of the guys in the group happens to be from Belfast, Ireland. I mentioned that Id purchased the photo cards at the Titanic museum. He said,in Belfast? I replied, No...Pigeon Forge, TN.

I also added in the newspaper just prior to the reveal at the end, and I also use an old gold ring and a coin...the routine never fails to get an amazing response.
Message: Posted by: Al Desmond (Nov 15, 2017 12:18PM)
[quote]On Nov 15, 2017, rickmagic1 wrote:
I performed this during a Halloween show just three weeks ago. One of the guys in the group happens to be from Belfast, Ireland. I mentioned that Id purchased the photo cards at the Titanic museum. He said,in Belfast? I replied, No...Pigeon Forge, TN.

I also added in the newspaper just prior to the reveal at the end, and I also use an old gold ring and a coin...the routine never fails to get an amazing response. [/quote]

Not to pat myself on the back, but I actually feel honored that you have used some of my routine suggestions.

For anyone new to this thread, I have graphics and a script for White Star, which a lot of performers are now using.

If you want the material, all you have to do is sent me an email requesting them.

I will ask you a question to make sure that you have actually purchased a White Star from Jim.

Please don't request this if you don't have an original.

Nothing in the script or the graphics I send will give away the method.

You have to have the original instructions. This script is ONLY for the two person routine that is detailed in the White Star instructions.

My email is newton@acrossthebow.com
Message: Posted by: DocBenWiz (Nov 17, 2017 09:46AM)
Hey Folks, I will "toot" Al Desmond's "boatswain's whistle for him....I was pretty happy with my personally adapted version of White Star, but getting Al's script, ideas and the newspaper prop really bumped up my overall routine! So, I heartily recommend getting Al's extra kit for this!
Message: Posted by: OddFellow (Oct 5, 2019 06:33PM)
Came across this thread and effect last month. Got the effect, and followed Al's storyline, advice and templates, plus purchased CDVs from flea markets to replace the original photos. This is a very powerful effect and relies on great storytelling. I picked up some Titanic repro artifacts and present them during the story line. All in all a great effect and goes well with my Victorian period presentation.