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Topic: Tenyo Four Nightmare Dx and Illusion Scale.
Message: Posted by: ThatsCool (Mar 15, 2012 02:42AM)
I purchased 2 Four Nightmare DX recently from an overseas magic shop and just received them. Without giving anything away, I noticed two things.

The gimmicked areas are kind of a bit "wet" looking and slightly off color. Are they all like that?

I was thinking of putting a bit of white out over it so it does not stick out of the whiteness of the rope. Should I even have to do that? The off white wet look area is slightly noticeable. The description says you can't see how it is done even close up. I disagree with that. Still is a nice item.

I also got an Illusion Scale and while I think it is cool too, I remember someone telling me they were made out of plastic. The ones I got are slightly shiny, thin cardboard. Are there different versions?

Thanks :).
Message: Posted by: Killertweety (Mar 15, 2012 02:45AM)
I believe you are right that'scool. I also bought Nightmare DX not that long ago (from Maxello) and while the package/discription sais that the gimmicks are so well hidden I don't think that's interely true. I'm confident that from a few feet away no one will notice anything but up (very) close there is something to see ... indeed a kind of 'wet' looking slightly off color.

What do you mean with 'white out'?

Illusion Scales have always been on laminated cardboard as far as I know, the first one I bought a few years ago and the recent one I bought as spare are both the same.
Message: Posted by: ThatsCool (Mar 15, 2012 02:57AM)
Thanks for the quick response Tweety, I was hoping it was not just me ;).

White out is a type of white thin liquid paint that you use to erase an error on a piece of paper.

I got my items from Maxello too, lol. Just did not want to say at first. The prices for both items were the lowest (though it took a long time to receive the items). That is the trade off for sometimes better prices. Maxello is very low on some items, and a big high on others.

The white out might help the slightly darker (a tiny bit yellow in one area on one rope) area blend a bit better, but then again it might make it worse, lol. Not sure yet if I should try it.

I noticed in Magic Co's Ebay DX Rope photo that it seems to be a bit better blended as I can't see the "gimmicked" part. Could just be the photo.

Illusion Scales is a fun item. Maybe I will have them laminated so it lasts longer.
Message: Posted by: J M Talbot (Mar 15, 2012 08:32AM)
The Illusion Scales I bought from Hitomi last year were made from thin plastic. Great spin on a classic effect for sure.
Message: Posted by: John Mazza (Mar 15, 2012 08:38AM)
Mine are thin plastic too.
Message: Posted by: John Mazza (Mar 15, 2012 08:41AM)
My ropes are off colored where they soaked in the glue that was used. They are light grey and not white but it is not that noticeable. I think painting them will make them worse.
Message: Posted by: xl18 (Mar 15, 2012 08:55AM)
My Illusion Scale is also thin plastic I think. I noticed that the case in the picture at Maxello is different from the one I have as well. Their case is rectangular while the one I have is curved to fit the shape of the other pieces.
Message: Posted by: stereo (Mar 15, 2012 09:25AM)
So I think it's time for to say what I wanna say for long time but I don't say lol
I removed very quickly web address of Maxello Shop on my blog in link section because all the items I bought in this shop was defective, or different from the original vesrion.
But as everyone here seemed happy I did not say nothing.
My illusion scale is plastic and my original DX rope are perfect even in Close up ( you have to standing so it's not real close up but very close ) The rope and gimmick are white and really you can not see the glue. It's perfect.
Message: Posted by: J M Talbot (Mar 15, 2012 09:42AM)
That's interesting Stereo. I have purchased several Tenyo items from Maxello in the past and did not have any issues.
Message: Posted by: xl18 (Mar 15, 2012 09:44AM)
I must say I have also been wondering about them as well since their prices are so much less on some items.
However I have bought from them in the past and I never had any problems. I don't have the originals to compare them to but the tricks I bought from Maxello seem to be the same as far as I can tell.
Stereo, What items did you find defective or different from the original?

By the way I took a quick look at my Four Nightmares and they looked perfectly fine to me.
Message: Posted by: Killertweety (Mar 15, 2012 11:37AM)
Also bought from Maxello in the past ... nothing wrong with the items, they are genuine Tenyo. I'd love to compare my Four Nightmares from Maxello to the ones now (and in the past) being sold elsewhere ... .

By the way, I just had a very good look at the pictures of Four Nightmares DX on Stereo's website, and the 'gimmick' at the ends of the ropes are also a bit discoloured, but perhaps that's the picture?
Message: Posted by: Nicolino (Mar 15, 2012 12:27PM)
I've bought sveral times from Maxello (back when they had Alpha Tunnel for sale), and the only thing that went wrong was that one order contained a Dragon Altar that I haven't even ordered....! :D
Message: Posted by: stereo (Mar 15, 2012 12:41PM)
For example I have buy Card Frame and the behind have no grain of sand on it. So impossible to perform the effect. So I was very disappointed.
As you see on photo of DX rope on blog in the loop you can not easily see where is the junction and yet it is a very close-up photo.
After the problem is that the finger hold the end of each rope and may ultimately damaging it and make it dirty, giving a less white than the rest of the rope. But the finish is still flawless I find.

Maybe the old edition of Illusion Scale is cardboard and the new is plastic. But I think Maxello sold the new so don't understand why your edition is cardboard. My case is curved too. buy to Magico Japan.
Message: Posted by: ThatsCool (Mar 15, 2012 03:31PM)
My cases that the cardboard cats fit in (bought 2 as they were only $9.95) are rectangular thin blue plastic.

The cats are cardboard though :( and the Dx ropes are a bit obvious with the darker glue areas. One has a small bit of a yellow tinge.

Oh well.

I did however, get a great mint set of items from fellow Café member, (Rafael) who was selling a group of 5 items. Great to deal with, packed well, and items were exactly as he said they were :).
Message: Posted by: Richard Kaufman (Mar 15, 2012 06:48PM)
Illusion Scale is made in plastic. If yours are made of cardboard, they're probably counterfeit.
Message: Posted by: ThatsCool (Mar 15, 2012 07:00PM)
Thanks for the info Richard.

I got my [i]carboard[/i] Illusion Scales from Maxello...:(.

Now I am wondering about the 2 DX rope tricks I purchased from them...
Message: Posted by: John Mazza (Mar 15, 2012 07:14PM)
That's Cool,

The Illusion Scale you got seems Not Cool. You should have the curved brown holding case. See Stereo's site for what the packaging looks like. It yours the same?

Also I noticed on Stereo's site that on the Four Nightmare DX, there is a color Tenyo logo on the Zip Lock Bag.

Mine does not have that. Also when I opened my booklet up, the pages are loose. Should they be stapled in like a booklet or are they all just with loose folded papers.

Four Nightmare DX would not be a difficult trick to counterfeit.

I got Illusion Scales from SEO and Tokyo Hobby which are both the same being thin plastic with curved brown case. The Four Nightmare DX was from Maxello.
AA
Message: Posted by: ThatsCool (Mar 16, 2012 12:51AM)
My pages are loose too, and I noticed on Magic Co's lisiting, her bag does not have the color logo either, though I trust her totally. Could Tenyo have changed the packaging?

Anyone have more input about the Four Nightmare?

My Illusion Scale appears to be a knock off from what I am hearing here. My case is definately rectangle and not in a Tenyo wrapper. It says "First Magic" in the corner.

Now I am ticked off.

Both items were purchased from Maxello.
Message: Posted by: ThatsCool (Mar 16, 2012 01:05AM)
Just double checked on Maxello's site:

[img]http://www.maxello.com/pics/to/illusion_scale.jpg[/img]

Description says Item-ID: to-10083 |Illusion Scale by Tenyo..............

And it is NOT.

Now I wonder about the 2 $$$ DX I bought which are sloppily constructed.

Just sent email to "John" from Maxello.
Message: Posted by: ThatsCool (Mar 16, 2012 01:14AM)
Just got this email from "John" from Maxello:

Hi, please return items not up to expectations for a refund.
Return address is on the invoice.

Best regards
John
Maxello Magic

Not up to expectations? I expect what you sell me to be what you advertise it to be...

Jeeze.

No wonder they have 37 in stock... I waited forever to get this stuff and now I send it back and wait forever to get a refund.

Could the DX still be real and be that sloppy?
Message: Posted by: ThatsCool (Mar 16, 2012 01:26AM)
He didn't write back after that. Why am I not surprised.
Message: Posted by: Killertweety (Mar 16, 2012 03:30AM)
Hmmm yes that's definately not Tenyo's Illusion Scale - it has a curved case, not a rectangular one. My first one bought had this and my spare bought e few weeks ago from another Ebay seller in Japan has it.

I keep wondering about Four Nightmares ... . Aghh, returning it to Maxello, shipping costs, ... I wonder if it's worth it. Especially because I really believe that it is genuine Tenyo, it resembles other pictus of the trick (including the package) 100 % ... .
Message: Posted by: ThatsCool (Mar 16, 2012 01:56PM)
I agree Tweety.

To be fair, I also realize this could be just an anomaly on Maxello's part, and I am not suggesting anything else is not what is advertised.

Just annoyed (or ticked off ;) ) about it and that their email mentioned my "expectations".

I am sure John is a nice person, so maybe he just made an error on this item only, but I do find it a bit disappointing that as of today, he still has it listed as Tenyo after I alerted him to this. Here is the additional email he sent to me:

[i]Our supplier says he is sourcing these from Japan.
As they where in time given away and never sold retail we bought his explanation about the packaging[/i].

It is not about "the packaging". It's about a counterfit item.

Why not remove the tiem until it is sorted out?

P.S-DX could be fine, but I have to be honest, I am questioning it.
Message: Posted by: Richard Kaufman (Mar 18, 2012 11:09PM)
I haven't seen the rope trick, but Tenyo wouldn't make anything that looks like crap.
Message: Posted by: ThatsCool (Mar 18, 2012 11:55PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-19 00:09, Richard Kaufman wrote:
I haven't seen the rope trick, but Tenyo wouldn't make anything that looks like crap.
[/quote]

Well to be honest, the 2 DX I received from Maxello are a bit crappish...if that is a word, ;).
Message: Posted by: xl18 (Mar 19, 2012 11:48AM)
If you like I could email you some pictures of the ropes I have. Perhaps then you can compare them and know for sure.
Message: Posted by: ThatsCool (Mar 19, 2012 06:20PM)
Sure. PM sent.
Message: Posted by: ThatsCool (Mar 19, 2012 06:39PM)
I just received this response from Maxello.

Not sure what to make about his comment about the DX Rope. Sounds like he is saying it is a FAKE too.

[quote]From Buyer
3/17/2012 00:14 PDT

If you find me the original Illusion Trick and DX Ropes that are not defective an exchange is fine, but if not I expect a full refund with shipping to and from returned. I messaged you about having a fake Tenyo on your site yet you have not changed the description which is wrong.

From Seller

3/19/2012 00:04 PDT

Please return the items for a full refund. Address is on the invoice.

From Buyer

3/19/2012 00:29 PDT

Answer the questions.

One: Why is the Illusion Trick NOT Tenyo as advertised, and

Two: Is the DX rope trick a FAKE knockoff of Tenyo too?

From Seller

3/19/2012 02:25 PDT

We cannot exchange as the Illusion Scale only was given away and not sold to retailers. The Four Nightmares DX Rope trick is a Tenyo but produced by a different manufacturer. We have changed the description on our site accordingly. Please return the items for a refund. If you would find the items useful, we can offer a discount on the items.[/quote]


Nice on the offer for a refund (though that is a non brainer) and offer of a discount, but the Illusion Scale says "First Magic" right on the package and is cheap quality. Also, he still keeps saying this: "...the Illusion Scale only was given away and not sold to retailers". Right, the REAL Tenyo Illusion Scale was given away and not sold to retailers, but his fakes were sold and to many people :( .

To be fair, I will give him the benefit of the doubt there, but he still left it as "Tenyo" for a few days after I told him it was not.

I just noticed today, "Illusion Scale" and the "Four Nightmares DX Rope" has been removed from the Maxello site. First time I purchased from Maxello and both items were knockoffs. Oh well, glad the fake items were removed (with the help from Café members of course ;)).

It is strange he would ask if I would find FAKE items "useful". This quote from him struck me as a bit of a spin:

"The Four Nightmares DX Rope trick is a Tenyo but produced by a different manufacturer".

Not sure how that can be. It is either Tenyo or it is not.

Different manufacturer I would think means NOT Tenyo and FAKE correct?
Message: Posted by: Izzy Jay (Mar 19, 2012 07:50PM)
I know this is a bit off topic. But as I see you're talking about maxelo, let me ask. I purchased Crystal Pyramid from Maxello, should I be worried about it being a fake?
Message: Posted by: ThatsCool (Mar 19, 2012 08:25PM)
Mine says "Created and Manufactured by Tenyo Japan" on the black base.
Message: Posted by: J M Talbot (Mar 19, 2012 10:04PM)
Hi That's Cool good job on identifying bogus products. In the interest of good karma I think there is enough evidence to cut Maxello a little slack. A number of us have purchased numerous items from them with no isues which would suggest this is not a pattern. We do not know if he may have been duped by his wholesaler into believing the items were genuine and he may have needed some time to verify that. He has offered to refund your purchase or provide a discount and he has removed the said products. In this day and age when ripoff products are increasingly becoming the norm I think tney have been pretty responsive.

Cheers,

John
Message: Posted by: ThatsCool (Mar 20, 2012 12:37AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-19 23:04, J M Talbot wrote:
Hi That's Cool good job on identifying bogus products. In the interest of good karma I think there is enough evidence to cut Maxello a little slack. A number of us have purchased numerous items from them with no isues which would suggest this is not a pattern. We do not know if he may have been duped by his wholesaler into believing the items were genuine and he may have needed some time to verify that. He has offered to refund your purchase or provide a discount and he has removed the said products. In this day and age when ripoff products are increasingly becoming the norm I think tney have been pretty responsive.

Cheers,

John
[/quote]

Cheers John.

I agree with you to a point. I also said more than once to "give him the benefit of the doubt" and I did. The thing is, he still left it as "Tenyo" 3 days after I told him it was not. He acknowledged it said "First Magic" on it and that it was not Tenyo early on. Sorry John, but he does not a get a pass about that too. I am not saying anything bad about him as a person, etc, but he dropped the ball big time. He did. Nobody else.

Maybe Stereo can elaborate on his feelings as to why he said this:

[quote]
On 2012-03-15 10:25, stereo wrote:
So I think it's time for to say what I wanna say for long time but I don't say lol
I removed very quickly web address of Maxello Shop on my blog in link section because all the items I bought in this shop was defective, or different from the original vesrion.
But as everyone here seemed happy I did not say nothing.
My illusion scale is plastic and my original DX rope are perfect even in Close up ( you have to standing so it's not real close up but very close ) The rope and gimmick are white and really you can not see the glue. It's perfect.
[/quote]

Where did you purchase your Illusion Scale and DX items Stereo?

Additonally, it took multiple messages from me pointing things out to him over and over. He did not remove the items during that time. When he saw I was not backing down with my concerns, he finally responded accordingly and removed the items.

I am sure the majority of Maxello's items are fine, but my first purchase from them consisted of items described as Tenyo that were not.

His response about the Four Nightmares DX "Tenyo" rope trick though was cryptic.

"The Four Nightmares DX Rope trick is a Tenyo but produced by a different manufacturer."

What does that mean exactly?

By the way, I never said the Dx was a knock off, I asked him about it as the quality seemed off for a supposed Tenyo item. Just as I asked about the quality of the Illusion trick. That we now know is a [i]fake knock off[/i].

I would still like to know what the DX is. Authentic Tenyo manufactured item or not?
Message: Posted by: ThatsCool (Mar 20, 2012 01:10AM)
I wanted to add that it makes sense that this was the "suppliers fault" and mistakes happen. I'm all for giving everyone a chance as none of us is perfect.
Message: Posted by: Killertweety (Mar 21, 2012 05:51AM)
Where the heck did the other topic go ???

Anyway, perhaps it's better to put it here anyway.

To make a long story short, yes, Four Nightmares is being copied by a Chinese manufacturer (I couldn't believe it at first because the package looks identical (well almost it seems, see last picture) to the Tenyo version, but now I'm 100 % sure) and is now sold all over Ebay/the world. Maxello adjusted his website (not mentioning Tenyo anymore) and an Ebay seller I contacted stated the item is from China.
50 bucks thrown away ... unbelievable this is possible.
Buy yourself a genuine one from Magico Japan like I just did, I'm sure she has a few left.

Here are some pictures of the knock-off version:

End of the rope:
[img]http://www.tenyo.be/images/end.JPG[/img]

Pieces attached with the gimmicks:
[img]http://www.tenyo.be/images/together.JPG[/img]

Front/label: as you can see the title isn't copied OK, a piece of the title (Four Nightmares DX) 'falls off':
[img]http://www.tenyo.be/images/package.JPG[/img]
Message: Posted by: guerrestellari (Mar 21, 2012 05:56AM)
Hi guys,

Was responding to Killertweety's post on DX nightmare on another post which was removed.

For the Japanese Tenyo nightmare DX, the ends are definitely white but the cross-section of the ropes where the gimmick is hidden is concealed using thin white paper which is prone to being dislodged from continuous usage. The problem can be solved by fastening back the paper using glue.

I would also recommend those performing the trick to ensure that their hands are washed clean first. This is because the white ropes do tend to accumulate dirt especially at the sections whereby there is a lot of contact. Also the ends do tend to fray from prolonged usage.

So handle your ropes with care!
Message: Posted by: Killertweety (Mar 21, 2012 06:13AM)
Thanks for the suggestions G.
G also just pointed out the package of Four Nightmares from Magico Japan also has the piece of the title falling off ... . However I do think that package/paper used for the label is more grey then mine ... . I'll contact Magico (again ;) ).
Message: Posted by: Nicolino (Mar 21, 2012 06:53AM)
Generally speaking, let's not be too naive!
It's always a clever thing to pick holes in the fact that a seller suddenly has lots of OOP stuff for sale... This doesn't mean it has to be a knock-off, of course, but a grain of wariness is avisable, imho.
Message: Posted by: Killertweety (Mar 21, 2012 09:36AM)
A wise advice Nicolino. I've learned my lesson, trust me. I'm very exited to see how a 'good' Four Nightmares looks like, I'll post pictures as soon as I have it.
Message: Posted by: ThatsCool (Mar 21, 2012 01:41PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-21 07:13, Killertweety wrote:
Thanks for the suggestions G.
G also just pointed out the package of Four Nightmares from Magico Japan also has the piece of the title falling off ... . However I do think that package/paper used for the label is more grey then mine ... . I'll contact Magico (again ;) ).
[/quote]

The wording in the photo of Hitomi's booklet are not cut off. It looks just like the booklet for the Tenyo version and she did get hers directly from Tenyo.

Though now she is sold out after I started his thread. As of yesterday, the last one(s) were purchased from here. Guess for now, me and a few others are SOL.

I hope whomever bought them is not one of the stores that snatch up everything only to mark them up unfairly to sell later.
Message: Posted by: xl18 (Mar 21, 2012 02:04PM)
Seo Magic still has this in stock. It looks like it is about the same price.
Message: Posted by: J M Talbot (Mar 21, 2012 02:07PM)
Rip-offs are unfortunately becoming the norm. I spotted a rip-off of the new Micro Psychic effect from a China suplier for $65 (noraml retail is $160) (I believe it has now been removed). Slo-Motion has been ripped off, the Quantum Bender was ripped off to the point where the original creator has given up. The company Magic Makers over the years has built a business on stealing and manufacturing items that do not belong to them. Look at the number of older Tenyo items that have been ripped off by other manufacturers. The insidious part of the new rip-off artists is that they are now duplicating packaging, etc.

It is not right but definitely buyer beware... If it seems too cheap there is probably a reason. Given the higher prices certain Tenyo items are commanding on e-bay I am sure there are some enterprising individuals somewhere wondering if they can cash in on that.

John
Message: Posted by: J M Talbot (Mar 21, 2012 02:12PM)
As a side bar to those that have purchased Four Nightmares, do you actually like the effect? The "soft" Tenyo items are my least favorite so I have held off on buying this.

Thanks,

John
Message: Posted by: ThatsCool (Mar 21, 2012 02:26PM)
Was setting this up to edit but when I finished it was too late to edit, so I am re posting.

[quote]
On 2012-03-21 07:13, Killertweety wrote:
Thanks for the suggestions G.
G also just pointed out the package of Four Nightmares from Magico Japan also has the piece of the title falling off ... . However I do think that package/paper used for the label is more grey then mine ... . I'll contact Magico (again ;) ).
[/quote]

The wording in the photo of Hitomi's booklet are not cut off. It looks just like the booklet for the Tenyo version and she did get hers directly from Tenyo.

Here is a comparison of the graphics between Stereo's Tenyo Blogspot, Magico on Ebay, and Maxello. The Maxello pic is form the pic I took of my booklet. Below this comparison is a comparison I did of my DX from Maxello and the others.

Notice that the Tenyo blogspot and Magico graphics match but the Maxello's are cut off. The color differences in the booklet has to do with photo quality etc, so I am not concerned about it right now.

[img]http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z71/MoviePropCollector/DXComparison.jpg[/img]

Here are two additional comparisons of the items. The questionable DX sold by Maxello, and the DX from Magico she received direct from Tenyo. Notice Magico's Tenyo item is a bag withing a bag and Maxello's is just one zip lock type bag.

[img]http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z71/MoviePropCollector/Maxello1Comp.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z71/MoviePropCollector/Hitomi1.jpg[/img]

Magico sold out as of yesterday, March 21st, after the postings made here. Guess for now, me and a few others are SOL.

I hope whomever bought them is not one of the stores that snatch up everything only to mark them up unfairly to sell later.
Message: Posted by: Killertweety (Mar 21, 2012 03:07PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-21 15:26, that'sCool wrote:
...
I hope whomever bought them is not one of the stores that snatch up everything only to mark them up unfairly to sell later.
[/quote]

As you might have figured out from one of my previous posts I bought one yesterday, the last one she had on Ebay, and after playing with it it's going straight to my Tenyo collectors cabinet/shelves ;) And like I do with most Tenyo tricks, if I like it I will buy one more to peform with.

I'm pretty confident she'll find a few more when you ask her, but I wouldn't wait too long if you're interested ... . Also they are still available here: http://www.seomagic-usa.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/419 - I don't know if they are genuine Tenyo or the knock off - the price seems 'real Tenyo' however.

John, I know how the trick/routine works (more or less) because of the knock-off version I own of course. It's a good routine but I need English explanations - the instructional video from SEO-magic would also help but I didn't buy from them. As I do mainly close-up tricks it isn't something I will use a lot. It also requires practice to do fluently I believe, but it's not as hard to do as Hungarian Linking Ropes.
Message: Posted by: ThatsCool (Mar 21, 2012 03:10PM)
Here is a comparison between the known authentic Tenyo Illusion Scale and the definitely fake Illusion Scales previously sold by Maxello:

[img]http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z71/MoviePropCollector/IllusionScaleComp.jpg[/img]
Message: Posted by: Killertweety (Mar 21, 2012 03:11PM)
You put a lot of effort into this that'scool, and that's cool! (sorry, I always wanted to say this ;). Thanks.
Message: Posted by: ThatsCool (Mar 21, 2012 03:12PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-21 16:07, Killertweety wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-21 15:26, that'sCool wrote:
...
I hope whomever bought them is not one of the stores that snatch up everything only to mark them up unfairly to sell later.
[/quote]

As you might have figured out from one of my previous posts I bought one yesterday, the last one she had on Ebay, and after playing with it it's going straight to my Tenyo collectors cabinet/shelves ;) And like I do with most Tenyo tricks, if I like it I will buy one more to peform with.

I'm pretty confident she'll find a few more when you ask her, but I wouldn't wait too long if you're interested ... . Also they are still available here: http://www.seomagic-usa.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/419 - I don't know if they are genuine Tenyo or the knock off - the price seems 'real Tenyo' however.

John, I know how the trick/routine works (more or less) because of the knock-off version I own of course. It's a good routine but I need English explanations - the instructional video from SEO-magic would also help but I didn't buy from them. As I do mainly close-up tricks it isn't something I will use a lot. It also requires practice to do fluently I believe, but it's not as hard to do as Hungarian Linking Ropes.
[/quote]

Glad it was you Tweety :)
Message: Posted by: Killertweety (Mar 21, 2012 03:22PM)
Makes me wonder ... the person that bought all the Illusion Scales from Maxello not that long ago to make a good profit in a few years will probably be pulling his hairs out right now :lol:
Message: Posted by: ThatsCool (Mar 21, 2012 03:26PM)
Maybe not. They could sell them with the same description they purchased them under. Hopefully they don't do that.
Message: Posted by: Killertweety (Mar 21, 2012 03:34PM)
And make a profit when there are dozens for sale in the next few years I believe? Perhaps, you never know :)
Message: Posted by: stereo (Mar 21, 2012 04:12PM)
It look like that the Review from Glenn Duncan about Invisible Zone in blog is perfectly in the news!
Here is a beautiful illustration of what he tried to explain on the copies and contrefait items and the harm they do to the industry of Magic.
Message: Posted by: John Mazza (Mar 21, 2012 10:30PM)
How about the polybagged Tenyo tricks. In my opinion it is not something Tenyo would be likely to do. And all the instructions are photocopied.

I have a poly bagged Super Spike and Moon Spinner and neither has Tenyo markings on the trick, is that correct?

AA
Message: Posted by: guerrestellari (Mar 21, 2012 11:12PM)
Hi guys,

Yes, on seeing the photos I can confirm there is a big difference in quality.

When I got the DX ropes from Japan, I thought there was a mistake because I could only locate 2 ropes no matter how hard I tried (l haven't read the instructions yet - lol) I really had to scrutinize very carefully and it really took me quite a while to locate the 'hidden' rope. I almost wanted to have them returned for missing rope!!

As mentioned in my earlier post, do remember to have clean hands handling the ropes, the areas where there is a lot of contact will cause the section to "darken" and bring unwanted attention. There is also the possibility of fraying.
Message: Posted by: guerrestellari (Mar 21, 2012 11:13PM)
Hi AA,

In my opinion , polybagged tricks are suspect. A japanese company like Tenyo who takes pride in packaging would never do something like that.
Message: Posted by: guerrestellari (Mar 21, 2012 11:27PM)
On the subject on Japanese Tenyo, I can get these direct but they would have to be in carton quantity (of 12)

If anyone is interested in Illusion scale, its US$23 shipped via letter post from Japan to worldwide. Let me know if you guys want to do a mass order?
Message: Posted by: simcoscor (Mar 21, 2012 11:28PM)
Tenyo has released some effects in polybags...
T-195 Grand Derby Prediction
T-194 Mind Spinner
T-193 Magic Painting
T-192 Wild Wallet Leather

...but they all have Tenyo's marking (or logos) on the instructions sheet.
Message: Posted by: guerrestellari (Mar 21, 2012 11:49PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-22 00:28, simcoscor wrote:
Tenyo has released some effects in polybags...
T-195 Grand Derby Prediction
T-194 Mind Spinner
T-193 Magic Painting
T-192 Wild Wallet Leather

...but they all have Tenyo's marking (or logos) on the instructions sheet.
[/quote]

Yes, those you listed are Tenyo releases without refute, and comes in labelled packaging. I am refering to more common polybagged tenyo in plain bags marketed as "overstocks" such as flash dice etc...
Message: Posted by: xl18 (Mar 22, 2012 08:25AM)
I was always wondering about the polybagged tricks as to where they came from and why were they packaged like that. I did at some point get 2 of them - Infintum and Moonspinner. The Infinitum does have have the "Manufactured by Tenyo Japan" markings on the bottom so it certainly looks legit. The Moonspinner didn't have any markings but I don't know if the packaged one did either.
Message: Posted by: J M Talbot (Mar 22, 2012 11:00AM)
My understanding was that Tenyo in the past had shipped tricks in bulk in this form to some European countries (non- English speaking)as it was too expensive to provide custom packaging. I have purchased a few items this way and they are original Tenyo items.

John
Message: Posted by: John Mazza (Mar 22, 2012 12:16PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-22 12:00, J M Talbot wrote:
My understanding was that Tenyo in the past had shipped tricks in bulk in this form to some European countries (non- English speaking)as it was too expensive to provide custom packaging. I have purchased a few items this way and they are original Tenyo items.

John
[/quote]

JMT,

My understanding is the same, but I got this information from the sellers who are selling them and not from and independent source. Was you source more reliable?

AA
Message: Posted by: J M Talbot (Mar 22, 2012 01:16PM)
AA, to be honest cannot remember where I heard that from, but likey from a seller as well. I purchased an Alpha Tunnel in that format (probably from Maxello) but was able to confirm it was 100% legit by comparing it to a known Tenyo version.

John
Message: Posted by: Richard Kaufman (Mar 22, 2012 08:55PM)
I have sent a letter to one of the guys at Tenyo regarding the composition of the props in Illusion Scale, i.e., plastic or cardboard. When he responds (it usually takes a day or two), I'll post a note here.
Message: Posted by: ThatsCool (Mar 22, 2012 10:59PM)
Thanks Richard, I can't wait to hear his input on this. Can you ask him about the [i]Four Nightmare DX[/i] item?

The [i]Illusion Scale[/i] sold by [i]Maxello[/i] though is still a knock off of [i]Tenyo's[/i] no matter what the authentic ones are made of.

"[i]First Magic[/i]" is/was the company making them, not[i] Tenyo[/i]. I can't say what the deal is with [i]Maxello's[/i] DX rope however. The booklet's lettering seems off and the quality of the ropes appear to not be up to par with [i]Tenyo[/i] quality.
Message: Posted by: Killertweety (Mar 23, 2012 04:08AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-22 12:00, J M Talbot wrote:
My understanding was that Tenyo in the past had shipped tricks in bulk in this form to some European countries (non- English speaking)as it was too expensive to provide custom packaging. I have purchased a few items this way and they are original Tenyo items.


John
[/quote]

This is what I have been told too, a pretty reliable source. What's more is that I have found a few genuine Tenyo items sold under another name in Europe. I believe some companies bought a large number of original Tenyo in bulk and sold them under their own name, often with a copy of the original Tenyo instructions. Last week I bought a Magic Tube, just to have a spare one because I only have the Tenyo version but I like the trick. I got it a few days ago, opened it and there was a German manual. The magic tube itself resembled a lot like the Tenyo one - I looked at it carefully and on the bottom of the tube there was the Tenyo logo/rabbit engraved ... it was/is the original Tenyo Magic Tube (no John, not with a cork, with the red plastic cap ;) ). I compared it to be sure with my original Tenyo Magic Cube and the they are 100 % the same.

So yes, I do believe Tenyo has sold items in bulk to Europe in the past.

One more thing - there are Four Nigthmare DX's sold in shops that are also the knock-off versions, so it isn't only the shop we have refered to. The shop we refered to doesn't discribe it anymore as Tenyo by the way. As far as I know there are two sellers that have the genuine Tenyo version (I could be wrong and there could be more, but these are the two I know of): Seomagic and Magico Japan.
Message: Posted by: xl18 (Mar 23, 2012 08:36AM)
Interesting. I have seen some other items that looked exactly like Tenyo's under different names but I have always assumed they were knock offs. I guess I will now take a closer look.
By the way can I see a picture of what the packaging looks like for your new Magic Tube? I don't have that one yet so it would be nice to know of another option.
Message: Posted by: Richard Kaufman (Mar 23, 2012 10:11AM)
My friend at Tenyo responded: "We have never manufactured Sakkaku Illusion scale in cardboard.
If you see it, it is not our product."
Message: Posted by: Killertweety (Mar 23, 2012 03:54PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-23 09:36, xl18 wrote:
...
By the way can I see a picture of what the packaging looks like for your new Magic Tube? I don't have that one yet so it would be nice to know of another option.
[/quote]

If you want I can take a picture, but it's just a small ziplock bag, no logo, no nothing.
Message: Posted by: ThatsCool (Mar 23, 2012 05:40PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-23 11:11, Richard Kaufman wrote:
My friend at Tenyo responded: "We have never manufactured Sakkaku Illusion scale in cardboard.
If you see it, it is not our product."
[/quote]

Just as everyone thought. Thanks Richard :) .

Anything about the Four Nightmare DX?
Message: Posted by: Richard Kaufman (Mar 23, 2012 07:00PM)
I didn't ask about "Four Nightmare DX" because I don't own one and wouldn't know exactly what to ask.
Message: Posted by: ThatsCool (Mar 23, 2012 07:33PM)
Could you ask him if has a photo of the original Tenyo packaging and ropes? If not that's cool, ;),.

Again, thanks for the IS input.
Message: Posted by: ThatsCool (Mar 24, 2012 06:06PM)
Can anyone post close up pics of their authentic recently purchased Tenyo DX Rope?

Where they are attatched close up and from a bit away as well as the tip ends?

Thanks :)
Message: Posted by: Richard Kaufman (Mar 24, 2012 06:47PM)
I'll be in Japan in the near future, and have the opportunity to purchase a DX Rope. Once I get it back I can discuss its quality.
Message: Posted by: Killertweety (Mar 25, 2012 04:50AM)
My version will arrive next week that'scool, I'll post a picture of it on my website and let you know.
Message: Posted by: ThatsCool (Mar 29, 2012 03:55PM)
Ok, I received my authentic [i]Tenyo Four Nightmare DX[/i] today from [i]Seo[/i] and I am a happy camper. It was $75 and even though it was almost twice the price of the shoddy, FAKE ONES [i]Maxello[/i] had sold, it was worth it.

I paid $75, which included an English speaking dvd on how to perform all of the routines for the illusion. Without the dvd the price is $70.

The quality is much, much better as it is authentic [i]Tenyo[/i]. It is very hard to see the seams as the pieces fit very nicely together and are not discolored. I took some quick pics to show everyone.

[img]http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z71/MoviePropCollector/RealTenyoDXSeo.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z71/MoviePropCollector/RealDxSeoFront.jpg[/img]
Message: Posted by: stereo (Mar 29, 2012 04:20PM)
I have buy my Tenyo T-191 The Cutting Edge on maxello website 2 years ago.
So I put it on blog and for Quality and finish of props I writte "Very bad". Now I ask myself whether I received a true copy, and if the atrocious quality is actually the work of Tenyo or counterfeit item.
For people who have the real magic trick. How do you rate the quality ?
Message: Posted by: ThatsCool (Mar 29, 2012 05:30PM)
As I mentioned above, the quality of the authentic Tenyo Four Nightmare DX is much better than the obviously fake Maxello one.

If I were to rate it, the real Tenyo I just received is close to a 9 out of 10.

Unfortunately, the DVD I bought with it will not play at all (it has a few nasty scratches on it, so maybe that is showing it as unreadable. Not sure) The person at SEO was nice and said to mail it back for them to check. Then hopefully they will send me one that plays.
Message: Posted by: Richard Kaufman (Mar 29, 2012 08:36PM)
Daisuke from Seo Magic USA is a great guy and will offer excellent customer service.

stereo: Sounds like your "Cutting Edge" is a Chinese knock-off. The Tenyo original is made with the same quality as all of their products.
Message: Posted by: John Mazza (Mar 30, 2012 01:42AM)
Stereo,

I looked at your pictures and the Cutting Edge looks right to me.

There have been knockoffs but only one that went to the extreme of copying everything down to the packaging, instructions and name. As far as I know Four Nightmare DX is the first that tried to portray itself as an actual Tenyo item. All other knock-offs that I know of have been packaged and named differently than Tenyo and not representing that they were made by Tenyo.

AA
Message: Posted by: ThatsCool (Mar 30, 2012 01:47AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-29 21:36, Richard Kaufman wrote:
Daisuke from Seo Magic USA is a great guy and will offer excellent customer service.

stereo: Sounds like your "Cutting Edge" is a Chinese knock-off. The Tenyo original is made with the same quality as all of their products.
[/quote]

I have spoken with his wife and she is very nice. I told her I mentioned that I was pleased with the quality of the DX so she may get some orders ;) . The shipping from Seo was very fast too, ;).
Message: Posted by: guerrestellari (Mar 30, 2012 04:15AM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-29 16:55, that'sCool wrote:
...The quality is much, much better as it is authentic [i]Tenyo[/i]. It is very hard to see the seams as the pieces fit very nicely together and are not discolored. I took some quick pics to show everyone.

[/quote]

Haha, as I mentioned in an earler post, I thought I received 1 rope short when I first got it :) Yes, quality is good, but as I have warned, repeated usage and handling will cause the sections to darken.
Message: Posted by: ThatsCool (Mar 30, 2012 01:51PM)
[quote]
On 2012-03-30 05:15, guerrestellari wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-03-29 16:55, that'sCool wrote:
...The quality is much, much better as it is authentic [i]Tenyo[/i]. It is very hard to see the seams as the pieces fit very nicely together and are not discolored. I took some quick pics to show everyone.

[/quote]

Haha, as I mentioned in an earler post, I thought I received 1 rope short when I first got it :) Yes, quality is good, but as I have warned, repeated usage and handling will cause the sections to darken.
[/quote]

Do you mean just the gimmicked sections, or the whole rope itself?
Message: Posted by: wally (Nov 30, 2018 02:48PM)
I've never took much motive of the Tenyo four nightmare, now I may add this to my kids and family shows, apart from Seo magic, who sells a decent one, yes I've seen the Chinese ones,
Message: Posted by: wally (Dec 1, 2018 01:50AM)
Should have said, notice, not motive in the above message,
Message: Posted by: Inert (Dec 1, 2018 01:36PM)
Hi Wally. The Magic Warehouse stocks the Tenyo version.
Message: Posted by: wally (Dec 27, 2018 01:19AM)
Can the four nightmares be performed close up, anyone tried it,
Message: Posted by: Magical Moments (Mar 27, 2019 01:35PM)
[quote]On Dec 27, 2018, wally wrote:
Can the four nightmares be performed close up, anyone tried it, [/quote]

Like most rope tricks, this one is best used in a parlor, stage, or walk around situation. Walk around is pretty much close-up but allows for a bit more distance than traditional close-up situations such as sitting at a table. So there is my humble opinion.