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Topic: Magicshop.NL
Message: Posted by: John Mazza (Apr 12, 2012 12:06PM)
I just got my order in from Ron at Magicshop.NL and all I can say is WOW!

All six of the tricks were not just Mint, but GEM MINT.

I got some real nice ones for my collection. I got Floral Fantasy (blue box), Rope to Silk (english package), Paradox, Coin Through Match (the first red one), Coin Fan (in the old package) and Metal Matrimony.

The Metal Matrimony comes with an amazing story.

Ron quoted me some prices on the tricks that were very good, especially the Metal Matrimony. As we were making our deal there was a Metal Matrimony on the auction site that was at $102.50 (significantly less than the price he quoted me). It was Ron's auction. I told my wife that my guess was that he would say that he quoted the wrong price or that he had no more. Well he honored the price he quoted even after the auction for the Metal Matrimony ended at $222.50. To me that is an amazing gesture of honesty and business ethics.

For this feat of genuine honesty I nominate and install Ron of the Magicshop.NL as the first member of the Tenyo Good Karma Hall of Fame.

Good job Ron.

Check out Ron's site an if you do not see what you are looking for send him and email. He might surprise you.

For sure you will not be disappointed.

AA
Message: Posted by: stereo (Apr 12, 2012 02:06PM)
You have allready make post about this, why you do not use your own post ? It's not necessary to add one more post for the same subject so that the forum remains clear and pleasant for all.

I see china copy of Eye of Idol for 15euros in Tenyo section of this shop ... All know that this copy doesn't work. Well, not sure about good karma for this item ...
Message: Posted by: stereo (Apr 12, 2012 03:49PM)
Sorry I'm in a bad mood today lol
Message: Posted by: ninku10 (Apr 12, 2012 07:41PM)
Stereo, I think you are refering to dynamite magic shop,right? This one seems to be another magic shop also in neatherland.
Message: Posted by: John Mazza (Apr 12, 2012 08:42PM)
Yes a different shop and person all together.

I thought it would be helpful to people like ninku10, meridian, izzy, that's cool, Mr. Wizard, etc.

You know people who are trying to find tricks and/or build a collection.

Not everyone that frequents here have substantial Tenyo collections but they are working towards it an I want to help them.

I am sorry if that is not pleasant for you.
Message: Posted by: Ron Timmer (Apr 13, 2012 02:33AM)
Hi AA,
Thank you for you very kind words!

@ Stereo, you indeed are referring to another shop in the Netherlands. We don't have (a copy) the eye of the idol.

Best,
Ron
Message: Posted by: stereo (Apr 13, 2012 10:01AM)
Ohhhh ! Well ... Yes it's different website ... I'm sorry. So many NL shop now ! I warned that I was in a bad mood.
No counterfeit Eyes of idols here, Just counterfeit photos lol
Beyond pictures from my blog, I'm used to finding everywhere to make money effortless, I'm more bothered by the fact of finding photos from Hitomi. She had trusted me and gave me these pictures for the blog, then find them like that used by another shop ... I am very embarrassed and I apologize in advance to Hitomi for not being able to stop that by not being vigilant enough.
Yes I'm in a bad mood today too.

But why is he so wicked ? Because ! (French advertisement for Orangina red)
Message: Posted by: Nicolino (Apr 13, 2012 11:01AM)
Stereo, no need to have a bad day...you have just set up a new price record on eBay! Congrats!

Seems I will have to put up some rare items the next days as well....! :)
Message: Posted by: stereo (Apr 13, 2012 12:51PM)
It's for that I'm in bad day, however price record on ebay, I'm not happy to sell my ultra tube. I known I never find another one in future.
But I agree it's better than nothing.
Message: Posted by: John Mazza (Apr 13, 2012 01:25PM)
I bought Ultra Tube last week from a member here (That's Cool) for $100 with two other tricks and at that time he knew Stereo's was going for over $500.

There are some people who are not obsessed with getting the highest price and are happy to make some money and help out a fellow collector.

That's what Good Tenyo Karma is all about. Just like Ron of Magicshop.dl, That'sCool was kind and generous to a fellow collector.

[img]http://www.funstuffonly.com/temp/karmagraphic.jpg[/img]
Message: Posted by: J M Talbot (Apr 13, 2012 01:41PM)
AA, am glad you got a good deal. However I would not suggest that Stereo is obsessed with getting the highest price he can. It has sadened him sell but I presume financial reasons required him to do it. For the work that Stereo puts into the blog for no financial gain I am glad he reached a high price... that is great Karma for him! Also I do not think getting high prices on ebay in general is bad karma... someone lists and they get what the market is willing to pay... no one is forced to bid.

Cheers,

John
Message: Posted by: Nicolino (Apr 13, 2012 01:55PM)
Agree John, this seems to be a win-win situation: the buyer who is willing to pay whatever price obtains a rare trick, and Davy gets compensated for the "pain of parting".
Nevertheless a great move from that'sCool! :applause:
Message: Posted by: John Mazza (Apr 13, 2012 03:05PM)
When a member (me) offers another member (stereo) a very substantial trade or to buy the item he wants and needs for his collection (Ultra Tube) before it is listed, but the other member (stereo) rather sell the item on the auction site to maximize his profit that is Bad Tenyo Karma especially since the member (me) has been taking and sending pictures of items to the other member (stereo) for his blog.

AND When a member (me) gets a spare item (Colour Fantasy) that another member does not have (stereo) and he immediately thinks of the other member (stereo) and sends and email, that is Good Tenyo Karma. But when that member (stereo) does not respond to the email; that is Bad Tenyo Karma

AND when a member (Nicolino) posts a "Holy Grail Item" (Brand New Ninja Experiment) and another member (me) gets one and offers to trade it in good faith, when the member (Nicolino) offers up less than his best stuff for a trade so he can keep his better merchandise for cashing in (merchandise that was on the other members list that was sent); that is Bad Karma.

AND when on the same trade when a member (Nicolino) values an item that was to be part of the trade at 33% more than the price he sold it the day before to another member; that is Bad Tenyo Karma.

AND when a member (Nicolino) over values his items for trade and is then values a Shrink-Wrapped Ninja Experiment for 100 euros; that is Bad Tenyo Karma.

AND when a member (Nicolino) says he doesn't follow prices when he obvious does; that is Bad Tenyo Karma.

AND etc. etc. etc.

As far as financial situations are concerned, I have been out of work since November, when I worked for three months, and not worked for two years before that. That has not changes my character.

I was trying to use this thread to compliment Ron from the Magicshop.NL for doing something really special, but the greed just seeped it's way into this thread.

I have been biting my tounge here for quite a while hoping that things would change, but I have come to the conclusion that with certain people here on the Tenyo Section of the Café I will never be able to purchase or trade something because they are way to greedy and attached to their items.

Is that bad, well Greed is one of the seven deadly sins.
Message: Posted by: Nicolino (Apr 13, 2012 03:49PM)
John, I hesitated in deciding if I should really address your post since everyone's free to his opinion, and ours haven't to necessarily match (and I have to admit that I sometimes can't follow certain esoteric utterances anyway); however, I'd somehow feel better replying to your avertments.

I'm glad I still have our email correspondence before me so I can ensure that my memory doesn't betray me. 
It seems you have it in for me for whatever reason, and it's sad that you never pointed out in our mails what that something is.  

If it really was about the matter, why haven't you dared to talk to me about directly in the face what annoys you?

If you want to call me greedy (because I don't give away items for almost free that were hard for me to find) - that's okay! 
Because I know a lot of people who have made great and honest deals with me think the opposite.

If we never come to an agreement about a trade - that's no big deal either. 

But please don't be Janus-faced to me and accuse me of something I am not!

If you really want to resolve something with me, I'd love to hear from you in a PM.

Have a great day,
Felix
Message: Posted by: John Mazza (Apr 13, 2012 05:03PM)
Nicolino,

I can't speak to "a lot of people who have made great and honest deals with me" because all I was offered was ridiculous prices and trades not based in good faith.

Your actions do not match your eloquent words and they never will so I have no intention of resolving anything with you. By making this statement in a public forum I know I will not go back on my promise to myself not to deal with the likes of you to create a collection that I love and cherish.

AA
Message: Posted by: stereo (Apr 13, 2012 05:15PM)
Finally the bad karma is not at the place where one might think it is ....

If the fact of not getting what you want is bad karma well ok.

Sorry not to answer the second to your email. ( and if you have looking your mail before writte this you see I reply to you and add in attach some present) Sorry not to be interested in an exchange of objects that I own already (1 Ninja experiment + 1 Eye of idol for 1 ultra Tube.) Ninja experiment and eyes of idols are not rare tricks you know, lot of this trick pop regulary on ebay, but I NEVER see one Ultra tube in package. (and 100 euros for Ninja experiment is normal price, the price actually on ebay are not normal prices, This is a speculative bubble because of a blog I think and that will explode very soon, but you are not among us long enough to know this I think ). 250 $ for metal Matrimony is not normal price, some months ago Hitomi was selling at auction for 60$ and it's easy to find, 600$ for Ultra tube is not normal price, 300$ for opened Cross Road is not normal prices, last year lot of them go to 50$. But again you are not among us long enough to know this... So please do not tell us if that price is too low or not, some of us collect tricks for over 10 years and know the good regular price of trick.

This is not one more "Ninja experiment" who will pay my rent, sorry.

I am EXTREMELY disappointed that in your mind send me a photo to participate in the blog makes you think I should accept any deal to please you in return. I thought you did with pleasure without expecting something in return. You really have a funny way of reacting and thinking. And I'm happy to report now, it will save me from being disappointed later.

The members of this forum do not wait you come here to have the good karma you know. I have already offered free tricks to those who helped me for the blog, but he did not have a claim, it came alone and with pleasure. I was surprised to receive gifts as members without my unexpectedly, assistance, attention, just a nice word, supports, and everyone was happy to do without need to boast.

But since you are the great master who decides who is entitled to have Good Karma or not I bow. And we all eagerly waiting to know your sentence about our good or bad Karma.

In any case, the difference is so big between the person you pretend to be and now discover what you really think is that the problem is perhaps not where you think...

I find it really very sad and the way you judge people shows a narrowness of mind which I would not be very proud.

Have a great day.
Davy
Message: Posted by: J M Talbot (Apr 13, 2012 05:53PM)
I have to admit AA your post is the worst example I have seen of Bad Karma in over two years of posting here. I have done two deals with Felix and both were very fair. The first was two years ago when I was in a very active stage building the Tenyo collection. Felix offered me a bundled package on a number of items, including a Ultra Tube, Ninja Experiment, Black Hole,etc. The price we agreed on was well below what he could get for the Ultra Tube today. I also had to gently persuade him to part with some of the items. Recently he showed me a quiet demonstration of good karma. He knew that a Billscape was on my wish list and reached out to me to say that he would sell me his extra copy. The price was way below what he could have gotten on ebay. Felix was also the one that organized the small act of kindness we showed Stereo awhile back.

Your slamming of Stereo is also unacceptable. The guy has given us all an incredible resource. To suggest that somehow he is undeserving of receiving a great price for an item is very small.

If this is your definition of good karma... I am no longer drinking the Kool Aid.

John
Message: Posted by: John Mazza (Apr 13, 2012 05:55PM)
Stereo,

You are either too young or two ignorant to understand what I tried to tell you.

When you saw that someone would pay $600 for your Ultra Tube you figured that you would never be able to afford one again.

I was pointing out that there are people out there that are not just obsessed with the value of their tricks and you can get the trick again like I did for less than $100 by just being thoughtful and nice to people. I did a very kind favor for That's Cool a while back and he remembered and followed through with a like act of kindness when he came across a trick he knew I really wanted.

As far as judging is concerned, my purposes is not to judge people, I was just trying to influence people to understand that by being kind and generous you can get more than by being selfish and greedy. It is something I recently learned (not that I was ever selfish or greedy) and I wanted to pass it along. I thought that we could all help each other make our collections but many here are not interested in helping others. I think some were even jealous that I was building a collection that would rival theirs which I have done. I started seriously collecting Tenyo in January and three months later I am just as complete as most of you. I work hard to to find tricks and like to make profits on the spares that I find, I just don't have to bleed every dollar out of a fellow collector.

Tomorrow I will illustrate my last example of how Good Tenyo Karma has helped me get special Tenyo items and then never mention Good Tenyo Karma here again. I will be posting a photo here of the Melting Loops I bought this week for a very kind price.

I tried to tell you guys about this over and over again but I guess you thought it was some kind of joke. There is a saying in the Bible that says don't waste your pearls of wisdom on sows ears. Oink Oink.

AA
Message: Posted by: John Mazza (Apr 13, 2012 05:59PM)
JM Talbot

Karma is way more than Koolaide.

Look it up.

Oink Oink.

AA
Message: Posted by: Houdini103126 (Apr 13, 2012 06:03PM)
As the magical arts core principle is deception, all too many can't resist their urge to deceive in other facets of life, such as getting the upper hand in a negotiation, or gouging someone out of something. It never fails, I have found the best and worst human beings in Magicians, truly an interesting mix.

I too don't care for Nicolino but he knows exactly what that's about. There are some others I don't care for either and that's OK.

Stereo is OK by me, he's moody and direct, but well meaning from my experience.

The sooner everyone learns to trade fairly and stop gouging each other, the sooner we can have a convention and share our common love of Tenyo as a group. The girlish like drama of the ToJ forums is like watching Days of our Lives. Some people thrive on it in these forums.
Message: Posted by: J M Talbot (Apr 13, 2012 06:10PM)
Spare me AA...
Message: Posted by: Houdini103126 (Apr 13, 2012 06:10PM)
PS,

AA, you are right, there is far too much conspiracy, cajoling, and teaming amongst members here to comfortably trade/buy from most of the ToJ members.

Unfortunately we're left with FEEbay and the deception there exceeds anything you'll see around here.

The best way to combat the clowns around here is to simply not deal with them.
Message: Posted by: John Mazza (Apr 13, 2012 06:17PM)
JM Talbot

I am glad that your dealing with Nicolino have been good, but what does that have to do with the poor manner in which he has dealt with me. You do not know about our dealing so why do you think you are qualified to comment on them.

I think you big fish, (what did your group call yourselves a while back when this same exact subject matter was brought up, Tenyo Old Boys Club) don't like a new fish coming around with some new ideas. I guess you have it all figured out. My writings are all here for all to see and you will not see the smug BS you guys posted during that debate of the same topic a while back.

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=412240&forum=258

Most that is talked about here in the Tenyo forum is how much a trick costs. Does anyone perform a Tenyo trick. I tried to add some good content and new ideas but I guess it is just going to be Oink Oink as usual.

AA

P.S. Karma is practice by more than a billion people as a way of life every day.
Message: Posted by: John Mazza (Apr 13, 2012 06:23PM)
Houdini,

My concept was so simple. Let's help each other out to make all out collections all that we want them to be.

Now I am being attacked for pointing out that people who are opposed were contaminating the concept.

Any way thanks for the support. It was three against one there for a while. And isn't it funny this has gone on before with the same exact group.

AA
Message: Posted by: John Mazza (Apr 13, 2012 06:25PM)
Ron,

I am sorry that this thread turned into a ugly mess. Hopefully the right people will contact you to do business.

AA
Message: Posted by: J M Talbot (Apr 13, 2012 06:40PM)
AA I believe I am qualified to share my experiences with Felix as much as you are.... Unless I missed the memo.

It is fun to banter... But I am now taking my wife to dinner... She thinks that is very good karma of me.
Message: Posted by: John Mazza (Apr 13, 2012 06:46PM)
I love how "The Tenyo Old Boys Club" is now trying to warp this to make me out to be the bad guy when all I was doing was calling a spade a spade.

You are trying to attach to me bad Karma but you know nothing of Karma. I am not trying to make a good person look bad, just trying to expose a greedy person for what they are. Nothing wrong with that. I guess you want to bleed people dry of their money but still be considered great human beings. Sorry you can't have both.

I like stereo's site and have said glowing things about him and his site at least a half dozen times (not an exaggeration). But when I see above a person who is selling his trick for a new record Tenyo price but is not happy because he still wants to keep his trick. That is as ugly as greed can get.
Message: Posted by: J M Talbot (Apr 13, 2012 06:53PM)
I'm back...we decided to order pizza in. Please keep posting AA your true colors are showing.
Message: Posted by: John Mazza (Apr 13, 2012 06:55PM)
JMT

The memo was mind your own business.

AA
Message: Posted by: J M Talbot (Apr 13, 2012 07:05PM)
Yea I ignored that one. Sorry when I see people I like and respect publicly slammed I support them. There are many on here I would do the same for.
Message: Posted by: John Mazza (Apr 13, 2012 07:07PM)
Can't keep posting. I am actually going to take my wife out for dinner now. We are going for Thai. It fits the theme, you know Karma, Asia. Oh right you don't know, it is just Koolaide to you. That was an ignorant response. Why don't you keep posting to show how little you know about what I was trying to accomplish here.

Oh right you were the one who received their item first in the Good Tenyo Karma Club. A hard to find Crossroads. A trick that hardly ever appears on the auction site and hours after listing your "Holy Grail Item" not one, but two Crossroads are on the auction block and you won one. I remember writing you a PM telling you that I would yield on bidding even though it was nicer that the one I got because I wanted you to get it. That's a novel idea, thinking of someone else before yourself. Novel at least as it goes with the Tenyo Old Boys Club. Looking back I remember you being into the Good Karma thing when it suited you but now that you got what you want, you make fun of it and gang up on me. What a nice guy you are. I bet you are getting anchovies on your pizza because as far as I am concerned you stink.

P.S. One more time, Karma is practice by more than a billion people as a way of life every day. It is not a novel idea.
Message: Posted by: Houdini103126 (Apr 13, 2012 07:15PM)
AA,

The "Tenyo Old Boys Club" is not a club you would want to be a part of. If you ever saw "Every which way but loose", they are a lot like the motorcycle gang that consistently and unsuccessfully tries to take down Philo Beddo. I might add that the Tenyo Old Boys Club looks like them too! ;)

My favorite character in the movie is Clyde!
Message: Posted by: J M Talbot (Apr 13, 2012 07:25PM)
AA, I ultimately got the Crossroads because I was prepared to pay the most that day for it. I appreciated you bringing it to my attention and offering not to bid that was a nice thing to do and I have done the same for others in the past. I am having a hard time connecting that person to what I am seeing here.

Have had my say... Enjoy your Thai
Message: Posted by: dragonash (Apr 13, 2012 07:25PM)
Did AA say new ideas? I don't remember new ideas.
Message: Posted by: stereo (Apr 13, 2012 09:14PM)
[quote]
On 2012-04-13 20:07, The Amazing Azzam wrote:
my purposes is not to judge people :

"You are either too young or two ignorant to understand what I tried to tell you. "

"I think some were even jealous"

"I think you big fish"

"That is as ugly as greed can get."

etc etc etc etc ...
[/quote]

Ok ... You spend your time judging instead.


I sell my "ultra tube" because I have no choice, even if it was sold $ 1000000 I'd be sad to separate.
Sad to separate a trick of my collection, sad as it is an object which I love, because it is a part of me and something that gives me pleasure in life wich is not always easy.

I'm not sad because I was hoping more money ... idiot.

And I assure you, nobody is jealous of you, there is someone who is egocentric to imagine this kind of thing ....

Since the first day I came across this forum I have never been disappointed by someone, everyone has always seemed fair, intelligent, balanced, nice. I am sad today to finish all this because of you.

Maybe I d'on't understand all because of the language, but what I saw you today is the most detestable thing that I have seen in ages. I think you should be ashamed of you, and before say others are either too young or two ignorant to understand I think you should question yourself about your attitude in total contradiction to what you seem to leave.
We have exchanged 3/4 mails, very factual in relation to trade, I was always pleasant, and now I discover that you think that ? And you infer a whole lot of value judgment... This is totally delusional. I do not understand, I'm even shocked. That's life. But what I am certain, is that you're wrong.

I would answer no more, is useless, but you managed to spoil my pleasure to come here, to spoil my pleasure to always try to do my best even if it is not perfect, I am sad and disappointed.

Your Good Karma has variable shape my dear... There is nothing that you say that is good Karma. I never want to hear this word of my life elsewhere. You killed that might mean.
I say goodbye.
Message: Posted by: Houdini103126 (Apr 13, 2012 09:44PM)
Stereo,

Come on man, the drama in this thread is no different than what we have seen before. I don't think your being attacked or singled out. You're well liked and everyone knows you're a SERIOUS (pun intended) Tenyo collector.

The problem with this forum is that there is a few bad apples that ruin it for everyone. That said, there are also a few bad apples in every bunch.

When new people join, Nicolino and others jump them and solicite Tenyo sales to them. By the time the new user gets savvy on pricing, value, and availability, they discover patterns of deceit and con-artistry.

This is the reason I blew the whole Presto magic thing wide open, it's ugly when supposed collector's are making vast sums on each other. That's not collecting, that's sharking.

I have a vast Tenyo collection and am always willing to strike a FAIR trade. AA has proven alright by me and reputable and a solid communicator. I can honestly say that other than med_doc7, I've studied sales data at greater lengths and at greater detail than anyone in this forum. There are people who THINK they know what something is worth and those who actually know. There is too much price gouging, price fixing, sensationalized promotion to exaggerate rarity, and bad will in this forum.

I have often wondered how many of you would be around if Tenyo magic had no collectible value. I guess only a quarter of the populace would still be actively talking about Tenyo.

I'm here to help (HTH) and am glad to share the film-flam, cons, and subterfuge I have seen with Tenyo magic.
Message: Posted by: stereo (Apr 13, 2012 09:57PM)
And AA I'm curious to know how old you think I...
Message: Posted by: Nicolino (Apr 14, 2012 06:07AM)
Great show so far, only thing missing is a bag of Popcorn...

[b][i]Karmageddon[/i] [/b](2012)


[b]Plot summary:[/b]

Nothing fancy: two altruistic guys fighting the clowns!

[b]Best quote[/b]

[quote]
On 2012-04-13 19:46, The Amazing Azzam wrote:
But when I see above a person who is selling his trick for a new record Tenyo price but is not happy because he still wants to keep his trick. That is as ugly as greed can get.
[/quote]

[b]Continuity goofs[/b]

[quote]
On 2012-04-13 18:15, stereo wrote:
100 euros for Ninja experiment is normal price, the price actually on ebay are not normal prices
[/quote]
Interesting. Mr. Amazing demanded $230.
Must be the Karma...

[quote]
On 2012-04-13 19:23, The Amazing Azzam wrote:
My concept was so simple. Let's help each other out
[/quote]
[quote]
On 2012-04-13 18:55, The Amazing Azzam wrote:
I [...] like to make profits on the spares that I find.
[/quote]

[b]Trivia[/b]

[quote]
On 2012-04-13 18:15, stereo wrote:
I am EXTREMELY disappointed that in your mind send me a photo to participate in the blog makes you think I should accept any deal to please you in return. I thought you did with pleasure without expecting something in return.
[/quote]
Everybody here who had the chance has contributed open minded and without expectations to your blog, Davy.
And everybody who did got paid off for their effort, just by making your site even more complete and colourful.
Please don't let those comments drag you down.


[quote]
On 2012-04-13 20:25, dragonash wrote:
Did AA say new ideas? I don't remember new ideas.
[/quote]
[quote]
On 2012-04-13 18:55, The Amazing Azzam wrote:
I was just trying to influence people...
[/quote]
Yes, he tried to introduce the Karma-thing.
Which translates, as we now know: "Be grateful for any offer I make because I'm the Got of Karma and sell me your tricks for next to nothing." :)

[b]Summary[/b]

Although the story seems rather weak and boring, [i]Karmageddon[/i] offers one hour of solid entertainment for the not-so-fastidious.
Sure, it's way too long for what it is, but the main characters do a brilliant job and are dauntingly disturbing.

3 out of 5
Message: Posted by: John Mazza (Apr 14, 2012 10:24AM)
Excuse me as I would like to take the thread I started back and use it for the purpose that I started it for; to talk about people doing nice things for people when it comes to buying and selling Tenyo.

First here is a picture of the Gem Mint items I got from Ron at Magicshop.NL. Check out the cool Rope to Silk. I previously only had the Japanese version from Hitomi. I loved adding this one to my collection and it was only $20. In fact all of the items are for my collection.

Ron, if someone calls and tries to buy all of the Rope to Silk, take his name, but don't sell them to him. We have a hoarder amongst us that buys out tricks to sell and leaves none for people who really want the trick for their collection. I wonder who that might be?

[img]http://www.funstuffonly.com/temp/magicshopnl.jpg[/img]

Here are two of the three items I bought from That's Cool for $100 this week. Yes that is a packaged Ultra Tube. Thanks That's Cool, you make me a happy Tenyo collector. The trick is really cool and will go right in my Tenyo Case.

[img]http://www.funstuffonly.com/temp/thatscool.jpg[/img]
Message: Posted by: stereo (Apr 14, 2012 10:33AM)
[quote]
On 2012-04-14 11:24, The Amazing Azzam wrote:

Ron, if someone calls and tries to buy all of the Rope to Silk, take his name, but don't sell them to him. We have a hoarder amongst us that buys out tricks to sell and leaves none for people who really want the trick for their collection. I wonder who that might be?

[/quote]


I see you have buy 9 new Ninja Experiment and more than 10 Eyes of idols, you speak about you ?

I love the sentence about denouncement, and the fact of asking Ron to note the name ( and after he does what? sent you that you make justice?), here in France it is reminiscent of the darkest hours of history, so so so bad Karma....

Worse and worse frankly, it makes me sorry the top of my 31 years ...
Message: Posted by: John Mazza (Apr 14, 2012 11:01AM)
Someone is acting like they are guilty.
Message: Posted by: macmac (Apr 14, 2012 03:25PM)
Hi Guys,

I have read with interest the discussion/debate/fall-out (whatever you want to call it) between certain people on this forum.

I have been on the forum for a while now but I don't post very often, however I have to speak out in defence of Stereo. I have dealt with him, shared threads and info with him and have consulted his website hundreds of times (as I think most of us have). Leaving his website aside which we all know to be the Holy Grail of Tenyo sites, his passion and enthusiasm for Tenyo is like no other and I also consider him to be one of the most genuine, honest, professional and trusted people on the Tenyo forum. It wasnt that long ago that a bunch of Tenyo collectors including me bought and sent him a Tenyo trick as a thanks for all his contributions and passion for Tenyo. A genuine spontaneous act of kindness without any ulterior motive. Without wanting anything in return.

I do not believe in the karma thread...that is my opinion. Whatever way you look at it it has religious connotations and that is not what this forum is for. It seems to have caused more hurt than good and one only has to read these threads to see that it has achieved the opposite effect.
Message: Posted by: Killertweety (Apr 14, 2012 06:03PM)
I'm very sorry if I'm sounding in a 'father-to-son'-like manner but I'm afraid my English isn't of the best and this is the way I can express myself.

I have a good/great contact with Stereo, JM, Nicolino, Azzam, Towledge, etc ... actually with almost everyone on the forum, and I really don't want to take sides here, which makes this post not easy. I have no idea what has been e-mailed and pm’d between members so I can’t and don’t want to comment on that.

What I do want to say in defence of some members is that I have been dealing with a lot of members on the Café and I NEVER had any problems, not with Nicolino, not with Stereo, not with JM, not with Azzam, not with anyone – all has been great and we help eachother where we can, on the forum, in a pm or via e-mail.
I have bought, traded and sold items and this place has been a fantastic help for me to help me complete my Tenyo collection and make it the way it is now. I have been selling stuff for more then I bought it for (like all of us), and like I posted in another thread everyone is entitled to ask for a trick what she or he wants, and if the buyer doesn't think it is a fair deal then so be it. We can call eachother greedy, dishonest but I believe in the end we're all human beings and making some profit to have a bit of cash to buy other magic items is inherent to who and what we are.

The Tenyo good Karma is nothing more then a good way to help eachother find missing Tenyo items with all parties doing the best possible and honest deal, and that is what Azzam intended I think. The idea is great, however, unfortunately, perhaps the world isn't build on good Karma alone. It's sad, but that's just the way it is. In the end we all want to complete our collection or find some very rare item or more then one item so we are able to sell it afterwards with profit or trade it with others. If Stereo decides he wants to put up his Ultratube up for sale rather then trade it it is his good right to do so. And if That'scool sells his Ultratube for (less then?) 100 USD that is very kind of him.

What does bother me, and I have told this to a few of you, is that in the past I have sold and traded LOADS of Tenyo tricks to members on The Café and only a few weeks later I saw them on this same website or on Ebay bluntly for sale for 4 or 5 times what they payed me ... and they were still unopened! Is this 'wrong'? No. But it does give me a bad feeling for sure. That is why I for one, as many others, have raised my prices if someone wants to buy something from me. Because in the end I KNOW that when I would like to buy a rare item from another member he will also ask a high price … that’s just the way it is, at least in most cases, unfortunately of course. I have literally been blown away of my chair with what some people ask for for example a Mini Morphosis these days … but hey, again, that’s the way it is.

One more thing, don’t get me wrong but what the heck does this mean Houdini: “there is far too much conspiracy, cajoling, and teaming amongst members …” ? Forgive me but I think you are searching in an almost paranoid manner after things that are not there. Of course the ones on this forum that were here first have a different kind of relationship with eachother then with people who joined very recently (and thanksgod a lot joined because it would be a boring/dull place here otherwise ;) ), not only because a lot of members come and go quickly (like in: ‘looking for some manuals’ and after that we almost never hear of them again) but also because we got to know eachother over years time, have dealt and helped in the past and everything went well. There is no ‘old boys club’ or ‘secret society’ … and if there was one then you wouldn’t know about it, it being secret and all lol ;)

I think I speak for everyone as I say we LOVE new members because new members bring new ideas, opinions, suggestions, ... and that's what it's all about! The suspicions some of you seem to have about some of us want to keep this forum as 'closed' as possible (I hope you understand what I mean here) are absolutely b*llshit.

I hope this whole thing blows over fast and we can get back to the order of they day, which is helping and supporting eachother with routines, ideas, suggestions and opinions, and we’re VERY good at that!

Also, and now I’m really starting to sound like a father to his son, but I suggest we use the personal message option in this forum to dispute personal things, we see what it leads us to and this is a bad thing for the whole Tenyo community.
Message: Posted by: Houdini103126 (Apr 15, 2012 02:50PM)
[quote]
On 2012-04-14 19:03, Killertweety wrote:
Houdini: “there is far too much conspiracy, cajoling, and teaming amongst members …” ? Forgive me but I think you are searching in an almost paranoid manner after things that are not there. Of course the ones on this forum that were here first have a different kind of relationship with eachother then with people who joined very recently (and thanksgod a lot joined because it would be a boring/dull place here otherwise ;) ), not only because a lot of members come and go quickly (like in: ‘looking for some manuals’ and after that we almost never hear of them again) but also because we got to know eachother over years time, have dealt and helped in the past and everything went well. There is no ‘old boys club’ or ‘secret society’ … and if there was one then you wouldn’t know about it, it being secret and all lol ;)[/quote]

Tweety, guilty are we? Your attempt to discredit me as "paranoid" is not only predictable, but ridiculous. As soon as one mentions the word conspiracy, one invisions a paranoid individual with tin foil in his windows to keep the Aliens from reading his thoughts! That's me! LOL. The reality is people in this forum conspire/strategize together, but this activity is kept private, I have received plenty of PMs from many of you citing this goes on. Therefore I can only conclude, conspiring, strategizing, and plotting goes on in an effort to better one's collection and gain the upper hand in deals. Cajoling is another problem with this board, and I know for a fact it occurs quite frequently, I define this especially as (but not limited to) more experienced forum members "preying" on newer forum members by soliciting them with ridiculously lop-sided trade propositions, "How about my two vault visions for your Diabolicus?". Teaming is another problem, as soon as one forum member has a discrepancy with another, their forum friends jump in to the discussion and quickly take sides. Too be completely honest, I think many of you are completely ridiculous and you know who you are. I think that if there was a gathering amongst us, everyone would act like pussycat's and purr.

The fact that many of you have known each other for a long time and have dealt with each other many times only proves THERE IS a "ToJ Old Boys Club", it's comedic as hell too.

My problem with you and Nicolino is that as soon as a new member joins, you two swoop in like vultures after a fresh kill, and solicit business from the new member. There is nothing inherently wrong with this, but often the new member hasn't the knowledge to make an informed decision and often ends up overpaying for items. I had a transaction with Nicolino that went well, so while I don't care for him, I can't knock him for a bad transaction. I have a different problem with him and he knows what it is. I have received some of your prices Tweety, and I must say, I feel they're too high. That's what I call GOUGING.

[quote]I think I speak for everyone as I say we LOVE new members because new members bring new ideas, opinions, suggestions, ... and that's what it's all about! The suspicions some of you seem to have about some of us want to keep this forum as 'closed' as possible (I hope you understand what I mean here) are absolutely b*llshit.[/quote]

I'm sure you do love new members, they are new business opportunities for you. I certainly don't think you want to keep the forum closed because it would slow down business. So I think your statement above is absolutely !@#$%^&*.

[quote]I suggest we use the personal message option in this forum to dispute personal things, we see what it leads us to and this is a bad thing for the whole Tenyo community.
[/quote]

Now why is this omnipotent one? When you transact on eBay, while disputes are handled privately, is feedback? No. Everyone on this forum should have the right to post whether or not a transaction went well or went badly. My recommendation is that if you're going to barter on this board, a feedback thread be set up, and HONEST feedback be reported.
Message: Posted by: Killertweety (Apr 15, 2012 04:50PM)
[quote]
On 2012-04-15 15:50, Houdini103126 wrote:
I'm sure you do love new members, they are new business opportunities for you. I certainly don't think you want to keep the forum closed because it would slow down business.
[/quote]

That is a disgusting, sick making accusation there.

The only thing I told in my reply (and perhaps it was perhaps a bit harsh in words) was that there is no 'conspiracy' among 'old' members, and perhaps it wasn't wise of me to use the word 'paranoide' and even mention your name and therefore making it too personal. I excuse myself for that.

But what you replied about 'my business' is low ... VERY low. I'm not going to try to defend myself, if people think about me what you think well so be it then, I don't care, they can ignore me then.

By the way, in another thread you tell JM not to put his nose into stuff, but I must say it is a bit the pot calling the kettle black no? When I see you popping up in a thread it is very often to stir things up against Nicolino or JM Talbot. You know Houdini, when Azzam wrote his first reply in the Magicshop.NL thread I just KNEW you were going to come in and join the discussion.

[quote]My problem with you and Nicolino is that as soon as a new member joins, you two swoop in like vultures after a fresh kill, and solicit business from the new member. [/quote]

This is another very hard accusation. Do you even realize what you're saying here? Yes, if someone puts on a list of items and asks if someone has them for sale I sometimes, IF I have one or more items, suggest him a price, which is ALWAYS negotiable. I NEVER ask ridiculous prices, unless I don't want to sell an item (I also mention this to the member), I ask what I think a trick is worth. And I DO make some profit, like I said in NUMEROUS other threads. I also often give sites (if I know of any) where a trick can still be bought at a reasonable price in stead of trying to sell one I have. It was ME that was the first that told publicaly on this forum about Dynamitemagicshop weeks ago, remember?!

The things you have said and accused me of are so low I can't express it, I feel absolutely !@#$%^& sick.
Message: Posted by: stereo (Apr 15, 2012 05:26PM)
The first day I come to this forum in april 2010 after few days I make a deal with KillerTweety, I did not know him, and I asked him if he had Tenyo for sale by mail.

This is his reply :

----------------------------------------------------

2010/5/26 David De Graef

Davy

You will probably have seen it on my site, but there are a few other tenyo's I have you are looking for. I've mentioned them bellow with my asking price; of course shipping cost won't be a lot.

Here they are:

-Billscape 150 EURO
-Fantastica 30 EURO
-Menta Marvel 55 EURO
-Mini zag 50 EURO
-Moons of Jupiter 55 EURO
-Mirage 55 EURO
If you should buy more then one trick, there is, of course, always some room to negotiate ;)

------------------------------------------

All tricks was Brand new in package unopened .You'll make your own opinion concerning the asking price...

And AA I buy my Ultra Tube in May 2010, not last year, and I paid 150$ with shipping. At this time my blog did not exist...
Message: Posted by: Killertweety (Apr 15, 2012 05:35PM)
Lol Stereo you posted this by good hearth but that was not necessary my friend. People who have dealt with me know what I ask for stuff ... and if they think the prices are too high (and I don't sell rare items for peanuts of course) there are no hard feelings and we always try to make a deal.
I must say 150 EURO for the Billscape ...wow, I think that was one trick I wasn't planning to let go easily lol :P

Anyway, I don't care much if people accuse me of asking extreme prices, what I do find sickmaking are the disgusting accusations Houdini made. And what's funny is Houdini is one of the few persons I have almost NEVER spoken to or dealt with to my recolection. And then this public reply from him ... BAH.
Message: Posted by: Houdini103126 (Apr 15, 2012 08:03PM)
[quote]
On 2012-04-15 17:50, Killertweety wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-04-15 15:50, Houdini103126 wrote:
I'm sure you do love new members, they are new business opportunities for you. I certainly don't think you want to keep the forum closed because it would slow down business.
[/quote]

[quote]
That is a disgusting, sick making accusation there.

The only thing I told in my reply (and perhaps it was perhaps a bit harsh in words) was that there is no 'conspiracy' among 'old' members, and perhaps it wasn't wise of me to use the word 'paranoide' and even mention your name and therefore making it too personal. I excuse myself for that.[/quote]

There is nothing sick about it Tweety, don't draw attention away from your actions, I call it as I see it. When NEW members PM me and say, "I was offered such and such by Nicolino or Killertweety" over and over again, it's quite clear you're both quite active solictors. It's your business if you want to wheel and deal, frankly I don't care one way or the other, but what I do care about it is when people come to me and tell me second hand of the deals they make and it clearly paints a picture of BAD Tenyo Karma.

[quote]
But what you replied about 'my business' is low ... VERY low. I'm not going to try to defend myself, if people think about me what you think well so be it then, I don't care, they can ignore me then.[/quote]

No one said anything about your business, however, based on prices you have quoted me for some of your tricks, I find your prices to be too high. To me, that's gouging, but you have every right to charge as much as you want, no one is making anyone buy from you.[/quote]

[quote]
By the way, in another thread you tell JM not to put his nose into stuff, but I must say it is a bit the pot calling the kettle black no? When I see you popping up in a thread it is very often to stir things up against Nicolino or JM Talbot. You know Houdini, when Azzam wrote his first reply in the Magicshop.NL thread I just KNEW you were going to come in and join the discussion. [/quote]

Tweety, I can say the same for YOU and for Nicolino and for Talbot. I intentionally poked my nose into this conversation to make a point, from your response above, it's clear you didn't get it. I have some friends here at the Café that would surprise many of you, and I can say, I'm not the only one who feels the way I do about you bunch.


[quote]My problem with you and Nicolino is that as soon as a new member joins, you two swoop in like vultures after a fresh kill, and solicit business from the new member. [/quote]

[quote]
This is another very hard accusation. Do you even realize what you're saying here? Yes, if someone puts on a list of items and asks if someone has them for sale I sometimes, IF I have one or more items, suggest him a price, which is ALWAYS negotiable. I NEVER ask ridiculous prices, unless I don't want to sell an item (I also mention this to the member), I ask what I think a trick is worth. And I DO make some profit, like I said in NUMEROUS other threads. I also often give sites (if I know of any) where a trick can still be bought at a reasonable price in stead of trying to sell one I have. It was ME that was the first that told publicaly on this forum about Dynamitemagicshop weeks ago, remember?![/quote]

Actually Tweety, I have been in discussions with Rene since last year! You WERE NOT the first to discover the Dynamite Magic Tenyo find, I assure you that. What you mention above is drivel to me, you have quoted me prices and you were unwilling to budge, I found your prices to be obnoxious. You also just hit on the very thing his thread was originally about, doing good by each other. Instead of making a profit on someone as you mention above, why couldn't you just offer something at face value to a collector willing to do the same for you? Trade common trick for common trick? Trade scarce trick for scare trick? Trade rare trick for rare trick?


[quote]
The things you have said and accused me of are so low I can't express it, I feel absolutely !@#$%^& sick.
[/quote]

I haven't accused you of anything, just facts Tweety. You solicit sales from ToJ forum members = Fact, Your prices are high = Fact, Selling at high prices when you could sell lower to make a friend = Gouging.
Message: Posted by: Houdini103126 (Apr 15, 2012 08:16PM)
[quote]
Anyway, I don't care much if people accuse me of asking extreme prices, what I do find sickmaking are the disgusting accusations Houdini made. And what's funny is Houdini is one of the few persons I have almost NEVER spoken to or dealt with to my recolection. And then this public reply from him ... BAH.
[/quote]

Tweety, don't try and make me the bad guy, don't give me the innocent babe in the woods routine. I have had some email exchange with you, I've got some prices from you, and I felt you're too high. That's my opinion. Don't say you have NEVER spoke with me because that's not true.

Why are you so fixated on a public reply? I will reiterate, I have never done business with you and don't ever plan on it. I cannot comment to the specifics of any deals other than those who have shared comments with me regarding deals you have made with them. There are many on the ToJ forums that don't want to speak up, that's OK. What I will say, is if everything I'm saying is BS, why are you so affected by it? Surely you would write it off as non-sense from the likes of me?

Honestly Tweety, I don't have anything against you personally, how could I, I don't know you, we only know each other from the boards, you could be a decent person, I'm simply citing examples of what I feel is wrong with the ToJ forum community.
Message: Posted by: J M Talbot (Apr 16, 2012 08:17AM)
[/quote]

Tweety, don't try and make me the bad guy

Actually we don't have to do anything... doing nicely by yourself.
Message: Posted by: Houdini103126 (Apr 16, 2012 08:27AM)
[quote]
On 2012-04-16 09:17, J M Talbot wrote:

Tweety, don't try and make me the bad guy

Actually we don't have to do anything... doing nicely by yourself.
[/quote]

Talbot, all I have to say to that is...

As your Avatar points out quite nicely as you hide your face in anonymity, you're quite special.
Message: Posted by: J M Talbot (Apr 16, 2012 09:23AM)
[quote]
On 2012-04-16 09:27, Houdini103126 wrote:
you're quite special.

Thank you. Once I find the right hat I will post a picture.