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Topic: What is Norm talking about?
Message: Posted by: houdinisghost (Apr 25, 2012 08:00PM)
I can't for the life of me figure out where Norman Bigelow is coming from. Can you?
Houdini & The Bible
Copyright by Norman Bigelow April 20122 The Dream Weaver Series
A while back I released papers called Houdini Challenges Christianity and it was met with some stiff resistance suggesting I was just making things up. Actually I believe Houdini’s own statements show this. He said all supernatural was fraud. So that covers any and all religions that are based on supernatural powers. He also showed a lack of respect for The Holy Bible and in the 20s that could have been deadly. It could be deadly now
Houdini told mediums that he would show them how to read the Bible because it did not mean anything they say it did.
He said, “Their only hiding place is behind the Bible.”
Houdini said that when Aaron turned his staff into a serpent it was a trick he learned from some Egyptian priest not a miracle.
Houdini talked about an Apostle escaping from jail with the help of an angel. He said that he (Houdini) escaped from hundreds of jails with no help from anyone.
In his movie “The Man From Beyond’ It states that all Masters from Moses to Christ taught reincarnation. That was not a movie for kids or many adults of that day. Those lines could only cause trouble by some in religion.
When Gordon Whitehead asked Houdini about Biblical miracles Houdini was more interested in what the people of that day would think of his own wonders.
It would be great and perhaps revealing to have the exact word for word exchange between Whitehead and Houdini.
Houdini used Bible experts to argue publicly the Bible with spiritualist. There we have a blank spot of information. Here is a Jewish magician in the twenties showing what many would consider disrespect for the Holy book
You tell me when Houdini says he escaped from hundreds of jails without anyone’s help mocking an apostle what that is if not disrespect?
Did he make any points with Bible literalist when he said Aaron’s staff to snake was a trick not a miracle?
What kind of movie plot in the 20s says Christ taught reincarnation? That was certainly not a little kid’s serial.
Think of his reply to Whitehead in the dressing room. Houdini was more interested in what people of the day would have thought about his own wonders than the miracles recorded in the Bible.
The discussions of spiritualism included the Bible and Houdini said, “Their only hiding place was behind the Bible.”
Houdini made more enemies than just spiritualist. His seemingly contempt for religion today would be normal but in his time it was blaspheme to many. This is just some of what we do know. A man who speaks like he did had plenty more to say and some of it may still exist today.
I don’t agree with everything Houdini said but his voice (His real voice deserves to be heard) not muted by people who thought they knew best.
I have said it for years and I will say it again, Houdini’s enemy list trail leads right up to the front door of main stream religion.
I am ending my Houdini/Margery lecture with this, “People make a mistake when they look at Houdini’s history as going away from us into the past because it is coming to us in the present.
Norman Bigelow
Message: Posted by: magicusb (Apr 26, 2012 08:28AM)
I think he is trying to say Houdini was a skeptic to the extreme.

This may not be so since Houdini claimed to believe in a god though he may not have believed everything in the old or new testament. Houdini may have said this to ward off attacks. Personally, I do not think so.

I think Norman is trying to say that also Houdini may have believed in reincarnation. This does seem possible.

I think he may also be coming around to our well founded and controversial theory that the person who attacked Houdini in the dressing room had a religious motive for the attack. We have found evidence that the attacker was stalking Houdini at the time.

Norman says a lot in this of what Houdini said and believed and I wish he would reference each of those statements.

Regardz
Dick Brookz
Message: Posted by: magicusb (Apr 26, 2012 10:57AM)
Here is a copy of a reply I kindly got from Norman Bigelow. M guess is for some reason he is not allowed the freedom to post here, even to defend himself.


From Norm:

References -Also Check Detroit Free Press Nov, 1 1926 & Literary Digest Nov, 20 1926
Houdini & The Bible
Copyright by Norman Bigelow April 20122 The Dream Weaver Series

A while back I released papers called Houdini Challenges Christianity and it was met with some stiff resistance suggesting I was just making things up. Actually I believe Houdinis' own statements show this. He said all supernatural was fraud. So that covers any and all religions that are based on supernatural powers. He also showed a lack of respect for The Holy Bible and in the 20s that could have been deadly. It could be deadly now

Houdini told mediums that he would show them how to read the Bible because it did not mean anything they say it did.
He said, their only hiding place is behind the Bible.
Ref, The Senate Hearings

Houdini said that when Aaron turned his staff into a serpent it was a trick he learned from some Egyptian priest not a miracle.
Bookman Magazine Jan, 1926

Houdini talked about an Apostle escaping from jail with the help of an angel. He said that he (Houdini) escaped from hundreds of jails with no help from anyone.
Bookman Magazine Jan, 1926

In his movie, The Man From Beyond, it states that all Masters from Moses to Christ taught reincarnation. That was not a movie for kids or many adults of that day. Those lines could only cause trouble by some in religion.


When Gordon Whitehead asked Houdini about Biblical miracles Houdini was more interested in what the people of that day would think of his own wonders.
It would be great and perhaps revealing to have the exact word for word exchange between Whitehead and Houdini.
History Books

Houdini used Bible experts to argue publicly the Bible with spiritualist. There we have a blank spot of information. Here is a Jewish magician in the twenties showing what many would consider disrespect for the Holy book
Religion, Magic & The Supernatural by William V Rauscher

You tell me when Houdini says he escaped from hundreds of jails without anyone help mocking an apostle what that is if not disrespect?
Did he make any points with Bible literalist when he said Aarons staff to snake was a trick not a miracle?
What kind of movie plot in the 20s says Christ taught reincarnation? That was certainly not a little kids serial.
Think of his reply to Whitehead in the dressing room. Houdini was more interested in what people of the day would have thought about his own wonders than the miracles recorded in the Bible.
The discussions of spiritualism included the Bible and Houdini said, their only hiding place was behind the Bible.
Houdini made more enemies than just spiritualist. His seemingly contempt for religion today would be normal but in his time it was blaspheme to many. This is just some of what we do know. A man who speaks like he did had plenty more to say and some of it may still exist today.
I don't agree with everything Houdini said but his voice (His real voice deserves to be heard) not muted by people who thought they knew best.
I have said it for years and I will say it again, Houdini's enemy list trail leads right up to the front door of main stream religion.

I am ending my Houdini/Margery lecture with this, People make a mistake when they look at Houdini's history as going away from us into the past because it is coming to us in the present.

Norman Bigelow
Message: Posted by: magicusb (Apr 26, 2012 11:21AM)
YET ANOTHER NOTE FROM ONE OF OUR ERAS BEST KNOWN ESCAPE ARTISTS NORMAN BIGELOW, WHO CANNOT NOT POST HERE. I THINK THAT LIST INCLUDES STEVE BAKER. I GUESS ESCAPE ARTISTS ARE VERY OPINIONATED.

How does one get off that bad boys list? I know Jim Callahan was taken back as wes Slim. Am I going to be in trouble now? Sure hope not!

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

This is my answer to Patrick. True I am certainly saying HH was a skeptic but I fully know he believed in God and reincarnation.
My point is he shows he did not believe in a literal miracle such as the snake trick. He showed he did not bow the church authority and that he just was impressed.
Because I know the press didn't print all he said I believe there may still be clues and evidence what he said about main stream religion and it will come out bit by bit.
So when I say he said he did not believe in supernatural powers and some religion says he did not mean us, that is wishful thinking only.
After all his years of research I am sure this underground system of religion fraud was not just spiritualist. He knew the tricks of that church and that is what is missing and I believe over time we will get what he said and was left out bit by bit.
Some years back the Library of Congress found a crate of Houdini material not even open yet. The point--there is more coming and we will find out what HH thought of religion that counts. Anyone can post this, reprint it or not.
Norm Bigelow
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Apr 27, 2012 12:57AM)
I have a problem with Norm's material for a number of reasons, not the least of which is the date of copyright.

Each of the posts with Norm's original statement gives the copyright info as follows:
[quote]
Copyright by Norman Bigelow April 20122
[/quote]

So what is the actual copyright date?

Another problem is that his references are incomplete. He needs to supply not only the book, but the page that supports his assertions.

If Norm wants to get back onto the Café, he really should ask Steve Brooks why he was banned in the first place, and then take whatever steps necessary to remedy the situation.
Message: Posted by: Kevin Connolly (Apr 27, 2012 10:37AM)
From what I remember, it was Ken Silverman who found the creates. The LOC didn't know they existed till he started his research.
Message: Posted by: Anatole (Dec 10, 2012 08:31PM)
I saw Randi lecture in New York about exposing faith healers, and during the question/answer session I thought about asking him what he thought about the healings attributed to Jesus of Nazareth in the New Testament. Would he have tried to expose Jesus as a fraud the way he exposed Peter Popoff? I decided not to ask because I thought it might create too much controversy if the lecture went from "exposing faith healing" to exposing all religion based on belief in a supreme being. (I had been accused once of trying to make the Bible look ridiculous when I asked a well-known Bible authority: "After God saw what a great idea it was to take a rib from Adam to make Eve, did he then take a rib from a bull to make a cow, and a rib from a ram to make a ewe, and a rib from a rooster to make a hen, etc?")

On the other hand I would tend to agree with Hamlet when he said:
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
(Hamlet Act 1, scene 5)

I also found it interesting that Carl Sagan hinted at something suspiciously like intelligent design in the novel _Contact_--that there is some hidden significance in pi... unless I mis-read what he was suggesting.

----- Amado "Sonny" Narvaez
Message: Posted by: magicusb (Feb 20, 2014 07:58AM)
In reading Norm's statments again at Page 7 of http://mrgadfly.com/OrigMurderTheory.pdf
it is that Houdini did attack not just spiritualists, but all religions that claim happenings
of supernatural occurances, such as turning a stick to a live snake, or did supernatural
escapes or went to a mountain and cames down with tablets that were claimed to be made by
supernatural powers. This would probably be most religions. Houdini was pragmatic
and did not believe anything could happen through supernatural powers no matter who the
person written about was, or what the religion. That would include Moses, Jesus, etc.
These are the things Houdini complained about that no one would publish in interviews.

It is possible Walter B. Gibson told such stories about Houdini's frustration with
this as well, if I recall.
Message: Posted by: magicusb (Nov 18, 2020 10:33PM)
The link above to Norman Bigelow's article is outdated.

Here is the current link

https://archive.org/stream/pdfy-bDUVAOt69erDtFOJ/The%20Original%20Houdini%20Murder%20Theory_djvu.txt
Message: Posted by: Pop Haydn (Jan 16, 2021 04:17PM)
In "Jadoo," John Keel explains the cane to snake trick as shown to him by Egyptian magicians in the 1950's. There is a cobra called "Naje Haje" that has a knobby brown back. When a nerve is pressed in the back of the neck near the head, it straightens out stiff like a wooden stick. When thrown to the ground it instantly turns into a spitting angry snake. Remember in the Bible, Moses did this "miracle" and the Egyptian priests then showed they could do the same thing. Moses' snake ate their snakes.
Message: Posted by: Wravyn (Jan 16, 2021 04:31PM)
I would also imagine that Houdini was not Christian... remember that his father was a rabbi, so if he did have a diety he worshiped, in probabilities, he followed the path he was raised.
Please note, this is all speculation on my part.
Message: Posted by: GlennLawrence (Jan 20, 2021 03:57PM)
Houdini was Jewish and is buried in the Jewish Machpelah cemetery in Queens, NY.
Message: Posted by: Leo H (Jan 26, 2021 03:17PM)
Houdini avoided making comments about the Bible and the supernatural accounts contained therein. He also avoided attacking any religion, even spiritualism, and only focused on the fraudulent practitioners who were taking money under false pretenses. Here are Houdini's thoughts on the Bible in September 1925:

"Yes, I not only read the Bible but I study it frequently. I try to keep away from Biblical arguments, as there are so many interpretations of the same thing. But I do know it states in Leviticus: "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." And you will find frequent statements against having "familiar wizards," but I have no desire to enter into controversies regarding Biblical statements in THE PRESS, if you consult your Bible you will find facts, but please bear in mind I am willing to meet anyone in person and talk over any paragraph in same."

More can be found in John Cox's blog Wild About Harry:

https://www.wildabouthoudini.com/2018/04/houdini-on-bible-spirits-freud-and.html