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Topic: Coin Retention / In the mouth
Message: Posted by: MICKEY SILVER (Oct 5, 2003 09:37PM)
Hello everybody, does anyone do a coin retention at the mouth? I have come up with a way that I appear to place a silver dollar in my mouth, close my mouth, chew it and swallow it, then spit it cleanly out of my mouth, only to land at my empty finger tips.
Is anyone doing this or perhaps have a different approach? I performed this at the coinvention in Vegas as a joke! Yet everyone was so amazed I was asked to show it over 50 times. My joke became a masterpiece.
It was somewhat ironic! Yet very MAGICAL!
Message: Posted by: Bill Citino (Oct 5, 2003 09:42PM)
A retention pass in the mouth? Very cool. I'd like to hear more about it, if you feel like it. Can you pm me with some more info on it?

Message: Posted by: Dan Watkins (Oct 5, 2003 09:52PM)

Chris Korn does it also. He has it on his lecture video.

Message: Posted by: MICKEY SILVER (Oct 5, 2003 09:57PM)
I was having a drink with Chris in Vegas He showed me! He chewed on a tic tac. He did a great job. I enjoyed his company for he was a very funny guy
and a nice guy.

DAN, do you do the retention in the mouth?
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Oct 5, 2003 10:13PM)

When David Roth let loose his explanation the TJCrawford move... all of the kids in NYC tried it from all angles, into everything at hand. Purse frames, fingertips, mouth, elbow, jacket... we did it.

That was 77. Another generation is having fun with the move now.

Message: Posted by: MICKEY SILVER (Oct 5, 2003 10:19PM)
Oh, I see Jon! Well that sure sounds about right. Thanks for the info! Oh, that's the TJcrawford move?
Message: Posted by: Bill Citino (Oct 5, 2003 10:21PM)
Now that I've been thinking about it, I've been doing a sort of retention pass as if I was putting the coin in a purse frame. The second it goes in, it vanishes. I always thought it was a pretty cool little move.

Message: Posted by: MICKEY SILVER (Oct 5, 2003 10:46PM)
Right Bill, act as if your mouth is a purse frame and do the same move. When you get it down, it should look great! Really. Practice in front of a mirror!
Good Luck
Message: Posted by: Bill Citino (Oct 5, 2003 10:53PM)
Wow, that makes a lot of sense now. I didn't look at it that way. Thanks again Mickey for the advice. I'm going to have to work on that one and get it down.

Message: Posted by: Dan Watkins (Oct 6, 2003 08:17AM)
Hey Mickey, I have not personally done it. It looked really wonderful when you did it at LVMI/Coinvention. You get an unbelievable burn as it goes into your mouth. You do it the best I have seen.
Message: Posted by: MICKEY SILVER (Oct 6, 2003 09:00AM)
Dan, thank you very much for the compliment regarding my vision of retention at the mouth! From what I have been hearing, youíre quite the coin man yourself and also one heck of a nice guy.
Message: Posted by: magicbear (Oct 6, 2003 12:16PM)

We met at LVMI and I was wondering if you ever posted on this board. Showed coin mouth thing over 50 times. Way over 50 I bet! I think I saw you do it over 50 times the first night at Jeff McBride's place. Well, I'm sure I saw you do all three of your bits: human slot machine, in one ear, out the other; and mouth vanish, regurgitation for a total of at least 50 times. You are fantastic man! And funny! Keep up the excellent work. Hope to see you again at another coinvention; Maybe the LVMI next year.

Hugh Castell
Message: Posted by: MICKEY SILVER (Oct 6, 2003 03:15PM)
Thank you very much Hugh, I remember your wife and you well! It was because of you two, that I ended up performing for Jeff McBride; who in turn ran and grabbed Mac King and Jamy Ian Swiss, and a room full of eyes! Remember ( Ha Ha) What a night! We all had a great time. Hugh, it was a pleasure meeting you and your wife! You both made my night, really!
Thank you so much,

ps- true, it was over 50 times! my jaw was killing me(ha)
Message: Posted by: KirkG (Oct 6, 2003 08:06PM)
Hi Mickey,

Kirk Grodske here. I must also compliment you not only on the skill that you demonstrated, but the kindness in doing it so many times, often at the drop of a hat and then going over the moves in detail without a hint of imposition. It was great meeting you and I hope to see you on the West Coast Magic Castle soon.

Message: Posted by: Bill Hallahan (Oct 7, 2003 12:16AM)
MICKEY, that is awesome. I canít do it, but I want to learn that.

The humor potential here is enormous. And while I prefer magic to comedy, you donít have to slow the magic down when using this.

The patter could go something like:

"... and he told me to put my money where my mouth is, so ..."

"... I can't take more than a few coins or I cause inflation."

Combine this with Miserís dream, ostensibly fill yourself full of coins, and tell the spectators:

ďI canít fly because I set off metal detectors, but Brinks is hiring me to secretly move cash on foot!Ē

This would also mix well with non-money magic.

You could also apparently put coins in your mouth and then use the old ďstreamers from mouthĒ trick. Or pull cards from your mouth. There is so much you could do with this.

How about ostensibly putting two quarters in your mouth and then producing a can of soda from under a handkerchief.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Oct 7, 2003 03:12AM)
What do you think is best?

Doing the retention pass with both hands before one is near the mouth? Or do the retention with one hand at the mouth?
Message: Posted by: Jason Wethington (Oct 7, 2003 09:50AM)
I have used the move ever since Chris showed me at a magi-fest years ago.
His use of tic-tacs and pasta to further the illusion are great. Wish I could have been at the coinvention :(
Message: Posted by: MICKEY SILVER (Oct 7, 2003 11:21AM)
Hi Dynamike (LOVE that name, it's great!) WELL the answer to that for me would be ONE HAND AT THE MOUTH.
Why? Well if we use two hands, say the right hand puts the coin in the left hand (really retained in the right hand) then the left hand acts as if putting the coin in the mouth, once that left hand comes back empty.... eyes will NOT stay focused on the mouth, because the coin was never really seen at the mouth. Eyes will go right to the right hand, then back to the mouth, then back to the right hand, then back to the mouth and so on.
Using the one hand at the mouth, ONLY if the retention of vision is strong. They will stay focused on the mouth. Whatís important here is to give the impression the coin is at the very tip of the finger tips (not the coin is in the hand.) NoteÖ the only thing to be seen here is The FINGER TIPS and MOUTH, but most of all the COIN. What works excellent is if you flip the coin in the air before putting it in your mouth. It is VERY STRONG. DYNAMIKE, again this is just the way I think! Try it, you will fool everyone! (It was a great question.)
Good Luck, MICKEY
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Oct 7, 2003 05:43PM)
On 2003-10-07 12:21, MICKEY SILVER wrote:
HI Dynamike (LOVE that name, it's great!) [/quote]

Hi Mickey, first I want to thank you for complimenting on my name, you made my day. :blush:

Thank you for bringing up the info about the retention at the mouth also. I never heard of it before. Now I got something to practice this week. :righton:

P.S. I like your name too.


I heard a lot of excellent comments about your retention pass. http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=44972&forum=62&12 Is there any way we can purchase a DVD/tape from you?

Help yourself to whatever you would like below, the tab is on me.
:donut6: :hamburger: :stout:
Message: Posted by: harris (Oct 10, 2003 02:20PM)
So far I can't picture using a retention pass to the mouth. I am looking forward to seeing it done.

While playing with the idea I tried using the technique taught by Shoot O. at the IBM convention in KC. The one where your hand ends up looking like you are ready to do a doggie hand shadow.

So far it is just play and I have not shared it with anyone but the mirror.

As far a using a mouth coil, they do now have U.S. Dollar printed mouth coils. I almost bought some at the same convention.(Kansas City, July 2003)

Keep growing and glowing and asking what if?

Harris Deutsch
Message: Posted by: ChessMess (Oct 10, 2003 04:15PM)
Since I've not seen any of this, I would presume this to be something as simple as:

"As you bring it up to your mouth at the fingertips, it rests on your thumb and you pull back with it as you're mouth covers the coin."

Maybe I'm being to simplistic... I donít know.

One thing that gets me is... you have people showing everyone and their brother at a convention the move, yet won't outline it on a forum of like-minded people. Where's the sense in that?
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Oct 10, 2003 04:16PM)
That's about right, though you have to be a bit shorter than the audience to make this really natural.
Message: Posted by: MICKEY SILVER (Oct 10, 2003 05:07PM)
I can honestly say the entire coin (silver dollar)is completely placed (100%) into the mouth / with the finger tip of the first finger and thumb only / Mouth closes over coin / Tip of finger and thumb come away from mouth totally empty / This move can be performed close up as possible and is totally angle proof / PEOPLE SWEAR THE COIN IS STILL IN THE MOUTH / The visual effect of the retention vanish is unbelievable / It's a very powerful move that can be incorporated into many different routines / The move has taken me many years to perfect!
Thanks for reading,
Message: Posted by: Dan Watkins (Oct 10, 2003 08:42PM)
Mickey did it for us plenty of times. I saw it right at the same height level and it looked superb every time. The burn was incredible; it really looked like it went in his mouth.
Message: Posted by: Alan Munro (Oct 10, 2003 08:51PM)
I've been doing something similar to the retention at the mouth, except I use it when I demo the cups and balls. I appear to visibly push a ball through the cup, making it seemingly appear inside. I didn't think that much of it, until the other day when I was getting gasps from magicians with it.
Message: Posted by: Dan Watkins (Oct 10, 2003 10:11PM)
Alan, how is that similar?
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Oct 11, 2003 02:37AM)
I do know what a lot of you are thinking. I was thinking the same thing too when I read the first post in this thread. But if you will open that link I have above, enough professionals are being a reference for Mickey. Even though I haven't seen it yet, I am now saying Mickey must know what he is doing.
Message: Posted by: Alan Munro (Oct 11, 2003 08:58AM)
On 2003-10-10 23:11, Dan Watkins wrote:
Alan, how is that similar?
It's only similar in that the hand isn't used to receive the object and the action is similar in execution.
Message: Posted by: Mike Powers (Oct 11, 2003 10:25AM)
As mentioned above, Chris Corn teaches his technique on his lecture video. He says, "It's kind of like that Ramsay vanish..." It looks GREAT and with the addition of the tic-tac or piece of spaghetti... wow. Also, Chris has a really nice Ramsay type display of an empty right hand after the vanish into the mouth.

Iíve been using it this way:

Start with a half dollar in the right pants pocket and a silver dollar in the left. Get your tic-tac loaded in your mouth. Reach in to both pockets and come out with half, visible at right fingertips and dollar in left finger palm. Use Ramsay etc to subliminally show that there's only the half in play. Now do the retention vanish of the half into your mouth. Bite the tic-tac once or twice as your right hand goes back to the pocket for "another" half dollar. Repeat the retention vanish as you do some more crunching. You could go back for a third half to ditch the coin and come up clean saying, "I guess that's it.." Or you can simply reach in with the left hand and extract the silver dollar. Now you can clean up by taking the dollar in the right hand, ditching everything in your right pocket. Two halves = 1 dollar.... etc.

There are many, many ways to structure the handling. You could ditch the half after two have vanished and pick up the silver dollar from the right pocket. This would avoid switching hands. etc etc. Hereís my favorite:

Use a sh***ed half at the beginning. This way, the specs would clearly see two coins. Now you could either put "both" coins to the mouth and nest the sh***, coming out with only one. Or nest the sh*** outside and pretend to put the coin in the mouth. I prefer going in with "two" and coming out with one. Now do the retention with the sh***** coin and use the Ramsay so that the hand is seen clean. If you've loaded the left hand with the silver dollar, you can simply reach in an extract it. Now you can take it with the right hand, again using Ramsay so that it's clear that only the dollar is there. To end, you can place the dollar in your pocket, ditching the half. Alternately you can go to your right pocket for a 3rd coin, ditching the halves and coming up empty. This way, you end cleaner with only the dollar, which can then be replaced into the left pocket for a complete reset.

This sequence really plays well, especially the sh**** version. It looks very magical and becomes a transformation rather than a vanish.

Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Oct 11, 2003 11:40AM)

Can you put yours on video as a display? It does sound interesting.
Message: Posted by: Mike Powers (Oct 11, 2003 01:58PM)
I've got a couple of videos I need to do. I'll try to get a video up of the two halves to silver dollar described above.

Message: Posted by: MICKEY SILVER (Oct 11, 2003 07:11PM)
Mike, that routine you described (sh***ed half with the dollar) is absolutely CLEVER! I like it very much. It must look great and very, very MAGICAL! You are a very creative person. Thank you very much for sharing that with us.

Message: Posted by: Curtis Kam (Oct 11, 2003 11:25PM)
Bravo, Mike. That's just geeky enough to play in the right situations. And it just occurred to me that it's the ideal response to those annoying chuckleheads who insist on asking if you can do that really good trick where the guy "spit the piece back on the coin." :mad:
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Oct 12, 2003 12:38AM)
Just for fun today at a show I altered Doug Brewer's "Famous 3 Coin Trick" to use this, just to see what kind of reaction I'd get.

I vanished the first coin via the coin-to-mouth-retention followed up by the Tic-tacs, which really did stir the audience. It was great. Thanks whoever's idea that was.

I thought my reason to chew the coin should be motivated so it was because the first vanish didn't work and I panicked.

I told them... "Sometimes magic sounds like chewing"
as I chewed away.

Since that effect uses the one-behind method, the coin looks really, really gone after you're chewing ... because it is.

I then just have 2 coins left and did the rest the way I usually do.

Of course on the reappearance, that 3rd coin had to come from somewhere... and the elbow or the knee didn't make sense. You can probably guess.

Well I thought I'd try it and it certainly got a lot of laughs.

Incidentally, I had the tic-tacs stashed in the coin purse with the coins ahead of time.

Thanks to Mickey and all.
Message: Posted by: Mike Powers (Oct 12, 2003 10:03AM)
Thanks for the kind words guys! By the way, the idea of using a tic tac or bit of spaghetti is from Chris Corn. He teaches it on his lecture video and in his lecture.

I like the line given earlier in this thread "I'm putting my money where my mouth is..." Also Curtis' idea of using this when someone mentions the coin biting is excellent, especially if you're ready with a tic tac.

Message: Posted by: vinsmagic (Oct 12, 2003 11:03AM)
Mickey does coin in the mouth better than any one I have ever seen.
His retention vanish is just a powerful. He had the convention gasping with delight, and on a personal note, he is a very sharing person showing us his technique.
Not many would do that.
Message: Posted by: canaday (Oct 13, 2003 05:32PM)
I've been reading all these posts about Mickey's coin work and would love to see it. Is there a DVD or video planned? Also, Mickey, are you planning a lecture tour anytime soon?
Message: Posted by: MICKEY SILVER (Oct 14, 2003 08:16AM)
Hello Canaday, thank you for your interest! I am presently working on putting together all my material.
Although at this time there is nothing for you to view. If you would like, PM me your mailing address and I will be happy to send you a video clip regarding the effects on my variation of the retention vanish in the hand, and also the mouth, along with a few others! (as a gift from me.) I am always willing to accommodate and meet new friends in magic!

Message: Posted by: canaday (Oct 16, 2003 12:53PM)
Thanks, Mickey. I will be looking forward to it.

Message: Posted by: harris (Oct 23, 2003 11:30AM)
Very creative adaptation of the retention pass.

I look forward to seeing more of you very visual routines.

You are appreciated by,

Harris Deutsch
Laughologist and Nearly Normal Magician

Posted: Oct 24, 2003 2:51pm

This stuff takes the retention vanish to a new level.

Although I grew up on reading manuscripts and magic books, I acquired a few videos since the mid 70's.

Recently I ordered my first 2 DVDs; (Kam's and Mc'Clintockís.)

DVD's are so user friendly.

I was pleased and honored to check out the "home made" video on the "IN THE MOUTH" by Mickey Silver.

Mr. Silver's combination of penetrations, body use
and use of clever subtleties (sic) would make up an interesting 1 coin flurry. His timing and use of both hands reminded me of someone familiar with mime, music, dance and possibly mathematics.

I am probably one of the few "coin guys" that does not do 3 fly. His parody got me thinking about ways (way in the future) where I could make this type of routine fit my nearly normal style. I won't give away the parody of the 3 fly because I don't want to spoil it for those that may see the video/future DVD or see it done by Mr. Silver in person.

Harris Deutsch
Laughologist and Nearly Normal Magician
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Oct 24, 2003 04:42PM)
Truly amazing, Mickey. I still can't believe how smoothly you did it. I played your tape on slow speed to try and spot the coin as you place it in your mouth. You still convinced me. I saw no flaws or errors with your retention pass through out the dozens and dozens of times you performed it. I never knew it was going to be that perfect. I still remember my first post in this thread, giving you advice to try it another way, I should have kept my mouth shut. If you ever start selling tapes/DVDs on how to master it, I'll be your first customer. I got the $500.00 check ready right now. :thumbsup: