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Topic: Men and Woman of the United States Military
Message: Posted by: AndyLuka (Jun 26, 2012 04:25PM)
Back in March I was at the Grand Ole Opry in Tennessee. I forget which performer did this, but at the end of their set they asked everyone who was in the United States Military, currently active, or veterans to stand up, and thanked them for their service. This was a very strong moment, if you were there then you would know. My question is would this work for busking?
Let’s say you pull in a big crowd. Right after your closer you say this
“ladies and gentleman, Is there anyone out there who is part of the United States Military, if so I want you to come on up next to me, and face everyone” (let’s say you get 4 people to come up.) “Ladies and gents, I had a great time performing for you, and I hope you guys enjoyed the show, but if it were not for men and woman like these who stand before you now, none of this would be possible, I want to personally thank them for the sacrifices they have made for our freedom, can you please give them a round of applause.”
Then you transition to passing the hat.

I am not currently in the military, nor have I ever been in the military, and I was wondering if this would come off as too much. The last thing I want to do is make it seem like I am mocking our troops, or offend anyone in any way. Yes, part of this is to hopefully generate more tips, but it is also an honest and sincere gesture of my appreciation. What do you guys think? I know some of you on these forums are ex-military. How would you feel about this? Is it too much? Too, over the top? Too corny? Or do you think it’s valid.

I have not attemtped this, and don't plan too for my next busking event. I was just wanted to bounce the idea off you guys.
Message: Posted by: Nick W (Jun 26, 2012 05:33PM)
Ummm, where in Milwaukee do you plan to busk?
Message: Posted by: carbone1853 (Jun 26, 2012 05:35PM)
I am a retired Army guy. I would say do not do this. Unless this was a veterans day celebration, it would come off as a gimmick. If this was a Vets day celebration asking the audience to give a round of applaus to the Vets would be appropriate.
Message: Posted by: AndyLuka (Jun 26, 2012 05:37PM)
Inside the gates of Summerfest. the good news is there are only two other buskers inside summerfest grounds, one is a juggeler, and one is a group of guys who drum on buckets. All the other buskers. are outside the gates along the streets.
[quote]
On 2012-06-26 18:35, carbone1853 wrote:
I am a retired Army guy. I would say do not do this. Unless this was a veterans day celebration, it would come off as a gimmick. If this was a Vets day celebration asking the audience to give a round of applaus to the Vets would be appropriate.
[/quote]
that's what I was thinking. but I wanted to see what others had to say.
Message: Posted by: imgic (Jun 27, 2012 12:29AM)
[quote]
On 2012-06-26 18:35, carbone1853 wrote:
I am a retired Army guy. I would say do not do this. Unless this was a veterans day celebration, it would come off as a gimmick. If this was a Vets day celebration asking the audience to give a round of applaus to the Vets would be appropriate.
[/quote]
As another vet I concur. It will appear as if you're using the vets to generate money and will come off poorly.

Good luck busking at Summerfest. Lots of traffic but most are there for music, food and drinking... Lots of drinking. And Milwaukeans are notoriously bad tippers. But willing to bet you'll get a good share of fun groups watching you. You should have a blast.
Message: Posted by: Pecan_Creek (Jun 27, 2012 04:56AM)
I agree , it would look like pandering.
Message: Posted by: Paddy (Jun 27, 2012 11:22AM)
And this old Marine makes it unanimous. Don't pander to the vets respect us
Message: Posted by: starksanity (Jun 27, 2012 11:50AM)
It is pandering as described. I have seen magic shows indoors that have thanked the troops and it came across as pandering, despite having already payed, and the performer being former military. If you are sincere about thanking the troops, I say go for it. Just like Paddy says though, do it with respect, and keep it far from your hatting. For example, have a special, meaningful trick that you only do when you have military in the crowd. Say why it's personally important to you.

If its just to up the hat, leave it out.
Message: Posted by: Faulkner (Jun 27, 2012 12:28PM)
Any time I meet a Vet I shake their hand and thank them for serving...if I am in a show I may stop to do this if the person is in uniform, wearing a cap or showing it in someway and I don't kill the flow of the show. I can thank them after my show if I don't think my timing would work. My point is to thank them, not to do it in my show.
It is who I am and I will do it in a bar, bookstore or airport. It is an honor that these men and women served for us.
I guess my point is that if your modivation is right then there should be no problem. It sounds like you want to do something and want to do it with class.

Good luck and fat hats.

And thank you to all the folks on the thread that have served.
Message: Posted by: kentfgunn (Jun 27, 2012 05:27PM)
What you're doing isn't pandering. In my world pandering is what a pimp does. (hey it's my world) It's creepy though. I don't especially like being thanked for my service, in one-on-one encounters. If I saw you do it in a show I'd definitely find it inappropriate.

We can all appreciate what people who serve in the military have done. Let's keep that respect as far away from attempts to make money or elicit a favorable response from a crowd. It ain't right.

ETC(SS)Gunn Ret. (that's an old sailor for those who don't do miltary abbreviations)
Message: Posted by: JJKnight (Jun 28, 2012 01:43PM)
I agree with everyone else on this, if it were a celebration such as a concert we just had for flag day a couple of weeks ago then sure go ahead but it really does come off as kind of cheesy and inappropriate to do it 'randomly'. It really needs to fit the environment, these guys and gals (unfortunatly I never joined) don't do it for the recognition they do it because they have too. At a patriotic celebration these kids of callouts are kind of expected and most service members will take a bow so to speak but like kentfgunn said small groups and one on one encounters are kind of weird and some service members even get a little annoyed inside (though they keep a straight face).
Message: Posted by: Devious (Jun 28, 2012 04:47PM)
I wouldn't mind so it's NOT unanimous!
Heck, I'll even do a trick for ya' and let you rest!
Message: Posted by: Octopus Sun (Jun 29, 2012 11:58AM)
Me as a USAF vet, I find it completely inappropriate, and utterly distasteful and it just plain leaves a bad taste in my mouth to hear stuff like this from those who have never served.
Especially now. IMHO THIS IS FALSE PATRIOTISM!!!
Jumping on the train just to wave a flag and seem important.
Yeah, I'm a little angry at the USA Civi's False acts of patriotism.
It's disgusting.
I've heard this B.S. for 25+yrs now and it sickens me every time to hear a civi's justification for wanting to shake my hands etc.
Do you know how ignorant and condescending that is to 90% of service person's?
EveryoneI know who has served, seen action(that's like close to 5 hundred people), including myself during Beirut in the 80's and more hate to hear these congrats, thanks etc. It turns the stomach sour with disgust to hear your facetious Thank You's over and over.
We know/see who is truly grateful, and it's not those of you who have to prove your better than others by your false pretenses.

Seriously...to any/all you civi's - most of us - We Want to Forget Our Pain.

Best thing you can do is keep the Nation and it's Service Persons in your Prayers.
IMHO that's enough

you don't like or agree with MO...well screw you!!!
nuf said.
Message: Posted by: imgic (Jul 2, 2012 10:24AM)
Gee Whiz Octopus...how do you really feel?

As a 26 year vet, in both Army and Air Force, I'm uncomfortable accepting thanks and praise from folks. To me, the military was something I felt I had to do for a tour, ended up liking it and doing well at it, so after active duty, stayed in Guard and Reserves. To me, the things I did, the action I saw, the friends I lost...it was all part of a unique career I was fortunate to have...and don't feel the need to be thanked for it.

But I also realize the military is not for everyone: not all are cut out to serve. And that's not a bad thing. And 99% of the civilians who have not served had a genuine respect for thos who have. When they shake my hand and offer thanks, I feel the honest appreciation.

But I've been at events where the MC or Host have asked for vets to stand and be recognized...in situations that seem totally inappropriate. In those cases I won't stand...those are the times it feels like pandering. Those are the times it feels like false praise, and the person is using false patriotism to promote themselve/show/event. That is what I think many of use on here are trying to say about calling out vets during a show.

Just my humble opinion. And you don't like it or agree: please thank me for my contribution to this thread and post a rationale and logic response.

Thanks all.
Message: Posted by: Paddy (Jul 2, 2012 06:42PM)
I have mixed feelings about this. I am not young, 68 yrs old to be precise. I spent 3 years crowling all over the "south east" Nice way to say Viet Nam. Then got my 2nd silver star and 3rd purple heart so they threw me out of the Corps. Said a fractured back was not wanted so I got a medical retirement. The year, 1966. Then the really good treatment began. Had to lie like a dog and put 3 years "experience" working in Canada and Mexico. If peole saw any military service especially with USMN you were a PROVEN murderer and a "baby burner" You could say that you spent 3 years in prison because you were a child molester and be treated better than a combat vet. Now the legs (green beanie term for anyone who did not wear the "girl Scout Hats" that we did. Yea, even the non spec forces guys gave us crap. Yes I feel uncomfortable when civilians try to recognize vets. This time of year with memorial day, 4th of July just brings up memories of those who never returned
Message: Posted by: Devious (Jul 3, 2012 03:57PM)
Peter Lansing AKA "Paddy", let me see if I have this right,

* You are collecting a pension from The Veteran's Administration for medical issues related to your service.
* You are ashamed of your military service, but don't mind the pension from said military injuries.
* You denied any prior military service.
* You lied abour your work experience in Mexico and Canada.
* You compare military service to life as a convicted pedophile.
* You get mad when folks thank you for military service, yet you don't mind boasting about your medals.

I could see why it makes you feel uncomfortable when folks bring up your prior service.
Shameful behaviour indeed....you should be proud of your service not embarrassed.

My father was a miltary police officer in the US Army in Vietnam on two tours, yet he was never ashamed to admit his prior military service. He also doesn't give everyone a run down of his fruit salad each time medals are discussed.

During Desert Storm, I served with many Marines who also spent time in Vietnam.
They were very proud of having served both in Vietnam and Iraq when I spoke with them in the field.

I don't like to be singled out either, but I've NEVER once been embarrassed of my enlistment in The U.S.M.C.
Message: Posted by: imgic (Jul 3, 2012 04:21PM)
Devious...whoa cowboy...settle down. I think you read more into Paddy's post than intended.

I didn't see him as being ashamed of his service. I've seen him mention his time in on other posts as well as this one. He was merely relating a time in our country's history when Military Service was not seen as an honorable thing. He related how poorly Service members were seen when he used the analogy that pedophiles were held in higher regard. He did not say Miltary service was in anyway related to to being a convicted pedophile.

Also I his discussion of his medals as him providing us with his background, and why he has the viewpoint he does. He didn't state them in a boastful manner. And he didn't say he got mad when folks thanked him...just that it made him uncomfortable.

Lastly, I've yet to meet a vet on medical discharge that doesn't wouldn't trade any pension for being fit for duty. You have to be pretty bad to be on medical retirement...even then the pension (if they give you one) is nowhere near the compenstation for the injuries sustained.

I would have expected a bit more respectful tone from a Jarhead to another Leatherneck...especially one with 2 silver stars and 3 purple hearts.

And back to the original topic: Andy, you can see what a wide variety of responses this brings out in vets...
Message: Posted by: Devious (Jul 3, 2012 04:27PM)
You served for 26 years, were you ever ashamed or lied about having served as he did?
Just because he claims to have recieved those awards doesn't make it so.

[b]A search of the Purple Heart Database doesn't list any Peter Lansing.[/b]

Once again, my father served during the same period and NEVER once hid this fact.
I won't pretend to honor those who deny prior military service. Sorry, not on my watch!
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Jul 3, 2012 05:58PM)
I want to thank all the vets for what they did for our country...and you too Paddy Cake.
Message: Posted by: Paddy (Jul 6, 2012 09:39AM)
Sorry devious I did not serve for 26 years. I was in for 3 years and got out on a medical

Yes in order to work in civial life in 1967 to 1972 you hid any military service in "nbam. You aren't old enough to be there in those days I was
Message: Posted by: Devious (Jul 6, 2012 12:04PM)
Peter Lansing,

If you go up and read, "IMGIC" is the person, to whom I addressed as having served 26 years. It's in his post, if you took the time to read it.

I was there in those days. When do you think I was born, post 1972?

In your post, you claimed to have been "Kicked Out" and then claimed to have recieved a "Medical Retirement". Now you are saying, that you "Got Out" on a "Medical Discharge". Which one is it Peter? Sheesh, keep your stories straight!

3 PURPLE HEARTS EH?

WHY IS IT THAT A SEARCH OF THE PURPLE HEART DATABASE DOESN'T EVEN YIELD A SOLITARY HIT OF YOU HAVING RECIEVED AT LEAST ONE OF THOSE ALLEGED PURPLE HEARTS?

At this point, I might even question your military service at all based upon your claims.
[quote]
On 2012-07-02 11:24, imgic wrote:
As a 26 year vet, in both Army and Air Force,
[/quote]
Here is the reference guy.
Message: Posted by: Paddy (Jul 6, 2012 12:45PM)
Well if they are dumb enough to join the VFW you deserve to know them. I got out in 1966, my uncle was post commander and my father was past post commander of the VFW post in Excelsior (far western suburb of Minneapolis) MN. I applied and was turned down because Viet Nam was "not a forign war." Well I have sinced been approached and asked to join but if I wasn't good enough then, They are good enough for me now.

BTW Devious, I am open about who I am and really don't hide either my name nor my looks as you found it so easy to identify me. Well the same can't be said about you can it. yes I do believe that you are one of the late 70's early 80's group. There is a huge difference between my generation and you young guys. WSe did what we had to, came home and shut the crap up about it. Now you go off to some base where you're well fed and equipped and you come home and claim "PTSD" Then we wonder why the drug problem is growing.
Message: Posted by: Devious (Jul 6, 2012 01:08PM)
Peter Lansing, but what about your "Purple Heart Claims"?

It's no longer a federal offense for such false claims so I'm going to
have to let you off the hook.

Now you are further alienating yourself by calling all
Veterans of Foreign Wars Members dumb? Tsk, Tsk, tsk!
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Jul 6, 2012 04:12PM)
Devious, since Paddy Cake is not going to mention to you specifically why he was medically discharged, I decided to let you know why. He has a mental problem. His mind is slow. That is why he can not live without turtles:

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/search_post.php?topic=298679&forum=6&post=5973795
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/search_post.php?topic=287994&forum=6&post=5892830
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/search_post.php?topic=287994&forum=6&post=5870125
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/search_post.php?topic=247513&forum=6&post=5494913
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/search_post.php?topic=228544&forum=6&post=5392146

The military should not have let him in the first place.
Message: Posted by: Faulkner (Jul 6, 2012 04:18PM)
I really suggest taking this private....the thread has turned into a ****ing contest and has nothing to do the original question, magic or performance.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Jul 6, 2012 04:41PM)
Sorry Faulkner. But I like giving slow-minded people what they ask for.

Back on topic. To me it depends on what is in the busker's heart. If he is using it as a scam, others will be able to see right thru it. If the busker is serious about what he is speaking about, the crowd will go with his words and character.
Message: Posted by: Paddy (Jul 7, 2012 08:32AM)
Yep Mike you do like turtles.

This is a refererence on another site when a reporter asked a kid a REALLY stupid question. The kid looked at her and said "do you like turtles?" So insteard of saying (to people who really need it said to them) "That comment/question/whatever was the most incredibly stupid thing anyone could have said. You IQ must be less that a good bra size" I, and a lot of others from that invitation only site, just ask "do you like turtles?

Enough said big guy remember if the foo s*its, wear it

Posted: Jul 7, 2012 9:36am
OH, sorry Mike hope my post didn't go over your head. If you try REAL hard you can understand just who I was talking about, Got a mirror?
Message: Posted by: imgic (Jul 7, 2012 10:14AM)
First I apologize for my contribution in the derailing of this thread.

Second, (please note this is not in defense or support of anyone) but just wanted to point out there is no public access comprehensive Purple Heart Database. I ran an IG office for some time and had to deal with scumbags who made such false claims. (and yet I give benefit of the doubt to folks. But Devious is right when he states "just saying it doesn't make it so.). The only way to see official records of Purple Heart citations is either accessing each branch of military's personnel records. Or the individual must request their records thru National Archives (and even then a fire awhile back destroyed many records prior to 1966). Online databases run such as the one run by Amvets require PH recipients to register their awards. So it's not complete.

All I was trying to with earlier post was defuse some tension

Back on topic. Andy, Sunday is Military day at Summerfest. If you're busking that might be an appropriate time to mention service members.
Message: Posted by: imgic (Jul 7, 2012 10:18AM)
Sorry. Fire was in 1973, destroyed many records in era of late 40's to late 50's with some up to 1962.
Message: Posted by: Paddy (Jul 7, 2012 08:12PM)
Thanks imgic I ahve never looked up my records so I don 't know what devious was talking about. I do remember the fire it caused holy hell for years with trying to prove anything to anybody. I remember appling for a job with the state on MN back in the701's and told them, brought my papers and all to get the extra points awarded vets with certain medals. They put out a blanket statement then that the fire had caused such a delay in responding by the military that the preference would be limited to 5 points with your 214 form and the additional 10 points would be added at a time when the records center could verify. Nice way of saying to bad guys but at least you got 5 extra points.

Didn't do me any good only had 3 interviews in 12 months with the state and 2 of them were in NORTHERN WAY northern MN. Glad I didn't get the offers
Message: Posted by: AndyLuka (Jul 9, 2012 08:47AM)
Summerfest is over, and I stayed away from any military mention. It does not really fit my style. As I mentioned in an earlier post, This was not something I was honestly considering, just an idea to see what people thought about it, or to see if anyone does this alreay. It obviously caused more issues than was intended.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Jul 9, 2012 10:19PM)
Thanks for bringing up the subject. You will never know how other magicians will respond until you bring it up.