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Topic: Roger Klause dye tube
Message: Posted by: WingChun (Jul 7, 2012 05:35PM)
I've alwyas like the color-changing silk routine. I recently watched Roger Klause dvd and was quite fascinated by his take on this effect. His handling of the dye tube is simply wonderful. The dye tbe he uses seems to have no curved edges. Do you know where can I find such a dye tube model? Thank You.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Jul 8, 2012 02:40AM)
The curved ends are actually better in my opinion, but if you want the straight ende, Morrissey Magic makes both kinds, or did, sraight and curved.

They will only hold a 12" silk.

http://www.morrisseymagic.com/Dye_Tube_Straight_p/dye%20tube%20straight.htm
Message: Posted by: WingChun (Jul 8, 2012 04:27AM)
If You watch Dai Vernon and Roger Klause, they both seem to use dye tubes with no curved edges. At one point of the expalnation - if recall correctly - Vernon also express forward right-edges tube, as it more easily palmed (for the particular palm he uses) and moved in and out of play. Roger Klause follow along the same line, with some refinements. At the moment, I don't have the Vernon dvd handy (nor Klause book), but in Klause dvd is clearly shown this kind of dye tube.
If You have any additional detail, I will greatly appreciate.
Message: Posted by: WingChun (Jul 8, 2012 04:30AM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-08 03:40, Bill Hegbli wrote:
The curved ends are actually better in my opinion, but if you want the straight ende, Morrissey Magic makes both kinds, or did, sraight and curved.

They will only hold a 12" silk.

http://www.morrisseymagic.com/Dye_Tube_Straight_p/dye%20tube%20straight.htm
[/quote]

Thank You very much Bill for the info.
The dye tube I own is from Morresy and I really didn't know they produced a right-edged model as well. Still thank You.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Jul 8, 2012 04:31PM)
Why I like the curved, over the straight edge is because of the "steal" of the tube. Pat Page also used the straight edge, and the steal was awkward to my way of thinking. It was also not angle proof during the steal. The curved edge allows a steal with the 2nd finger, lighting fast and angle proof. This is more of a flip move, then an actual pulling of the tube out with the pinch grip. That curved edge assists the finger being able to grip the edge and perform the move easily.

Pinching the edge of the gimmick between the index and thumb is just to cumbersome and as I stated not angle proof.

The curved edge also provides assistance for the ends of silk to not pop out prematurely during the routine.

I would also like to introduce you to the Rice Simplex gimmick. It has some advantages over the tape type dye tube. Those being, not having the cloth tape, thus you do not have to do the turn over move that is required with a tape type dye tube. It has the rolled edge, which permits lighting fast maneuvering from hand to hand. Only requires one finger to introduce and remove.

http://www.silkkingmagic.com/Rice's%20Simplex.htm This only uses 12" silks.

For larger silks I recommend the Rice Palmo.

http://www.silkkingmagic.com/Rice's%20Palmo.htm
Message: Posted by: bdekolta (Jul 8, 2012 09:46PM)
If you like the Klause handling you should pick up the "Friends of Roger Klause" DVD set which has Roger doing his routine and also Lance Pierce teaching his handling of the effect. Lance really smoothed out Roger routine and covers the dye tube in detail. He really smooths out the routine.

~ Dan Strange
ps - Full disclosure I teach a routine on one of the DVD's but have no financial interest in them.
Message: Posted by: WingChun (Jul 9, 2012 03:31AM)
Thanks Dan!
Will look for these dvds in the future. Actually, I also have the Klause book by Pierce. So, what do precisely they add to the dvds produced by Meir Yedid? Thanks for helping.
Message: Posted by: bdekolta (Jul 9, 2012 01:52PM)
The book and videos you refer to were published in 1991 if I recall correctly. The friends DVD's were filmed in 2008. So the differences would be the changes that Lance made during that 17 year interval. If you are interested in the routine you should avail yourself of Lance's work.

And if you do pick up the Friends DVD please buy it from Lance as the proceeds go to Roger's family. You can read about them here:

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=330179&forum=95

~ Dan
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Jul 10, 2012 08:13AM)
Abbott's Magic also makes a Tape style straight edge dye tube.

http://www.abbottmagic.com/Abbotts-Dye-Tube-ABBdyetube.htm
Message: Posted by: Lance Pierce (Jul 11, 2012 05:31PM)
There are pros and cons to using tubes with rolled ends or not, taped or not, barrel-shaped or straight. Which you decide to use depends quite a bit on the handling you want to do and the way you want the entire thing to look. For my purposes, a straight tube, no rolled ends, and a cloth tape works best, but these features all do important things in the routine and assist the handling rather than impede it, by design.

Thanks, Dan, for the kind words. I don't have footage of Roger doing "Red and White" on the DVDs, although we do see him doing "Sponge and Sleeve." The routine I explain on the DVD was the predecessor of "Red and White;" it was the handling that got Roger thinking about the color-changing silks again after a number of years. His method and mine are quite different. :)

Cheers,



Lance
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Jul 13, 2012 05:42AM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-07 18:35, WingChun wrote:
I've always like the color-changing silk routine. I recently watched Roger Klause DVD and was quite fascinated by his take on this effect. His handling of the dye tube is simply wonderful. The dye tube he uses seems to have no curved edges. Do you know where can I find such a dye tube model? Thank You.
[/quote]

I got out my Roger Klause book and it says the dye tube should be 2 inches ling and 7/8 inch inner diameter. I don't know any straight sided commercial dye tube with those dimensions. You will have to make one yourself is you want to follow the books requirements. They do still sell 15 inch silks luckily. If you can find the tubing, then they are not hard to make yourself.
Message: Posted by: Lance Pierce (Jul 13, 2012 12:12PM)
It wasn't clear in the book, but the size of the tube relates pretty directly to the recommended size and compressibility of the silks, as well as the size of the performer's hands. Those with larger hands can use larger tubes (longer, wider, or both) and larger silks. What sizes one finally lands on with the tubes and silks depends a lot on the handling one is going to do. In the routine I do, for instance, I need a tube that fits comfortably in the palm of my hand but also has sufficient diameter to fit properly on the end of my thumb (when the thumb is inserted at a certain angle)...and I need the tube and silks to relate to each other in a way that the silks only fill about 80% of the tube when all the way in.

It can take some experimentation. It's all variables.
Message: Posted by: WingChun (Jul 14, 2012 03:40AM)
I started the thread asking for more details about Klause right-ended dye tube. I really want to say thank you to everyone (expecially to Mr. Pierce) who has given so much treasured info on the dye tube.
Message: Posted by: yakutyokel2 (Jul 15, 2012 11:31PM)
Neilsen used to sell a larger-capacity, straight-edged dye tube, but I haven't seen then for a couple of years or more. Too bad, because now I want one . . .
Anyone know anything about these or their equivalent? As I recall, they could take either an 18" or 24" silk.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Jul 16, 2012 12:59AM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-16 00:31, yakutyokel2 wrote:
Neilsen used to sell a larger-capacity, straight-edged dye tube, but I haven't seen then for a couple of years or more. Too bad, because now I want one . . .
Anyone know anything about these or their equivalent? As I recall, they could take either an 18" or 24" silk.
[/quote]

Do you mean Norm Nielsen? Was it made by Murray or George Millward? I cannot find Murray, don't know who he is, but I found Millward.
Message: Posted by: Harry Murphy (Jul 16, 2012 05:57AM)
Interesting that I bought a dye tube directly from Roger at a TAOM convention 20-25 years ago. He sold a package deal with silks and routine. The tube was not straight sides. It was more like the tube that Joe Poper now sells (with the bulge in the middle). It was short but held a fairly large silk. It was a joy for small hands to handle.

I've made dye tubes for years by rolling a playing card to the diameter I wanted and using flesh colored mole skin to cover it. The edges can be made to act "rolled in" by just folding an lip of the mole skin inside. They work for dozens of shows and take heavy abuse. Since I do a torn and restored card bit and/or a signed card to...bit I always have a box of random playing cards. Dye tubes do not have to be made out of plastic or metal and are not complicated affairs. Make four or five of these at a time (about 15 minutes time) and you'll have what you need for a hundred performances or more.

For larger dye tubes I've used the Kraft paper that file folders are made from. I've even used heavy plastic folders to make tubes. Scissors, tape (mole skin or simply flesh colored adhesive tape) and Bob's your aunt!

It is only a little more time and the used of a razor to put a ribbon/tape through the center if that is the kind of tube you want or need.

Remember this is a hidden (never to be seen) tool and doesn't have to be pretty only functional and as Lance suggests, just right for the application needed.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Jul 19, 2012 04:30AM)
I have contacted Abbott's Magic and they have none in stock and do not plan on making them in the near further.

Then I contacted General Grant, and he has the size and dimensions that if those referenced in the book 1 inch Diameter and 2-1/8 inch long made in brass metal.

He does not have a web site but will do business by mail only. Contact him at ggmail@aol.com do not have any worries as he is a wonderful person.

I will be ordering 2 from him myself.
Message: Posted by: Magic Researcher (Jul 19, 2012 12:52PM)
George was making dye tubes at Denny & Lee's shop in Las Vegas a few months ago.
MR
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Jul 21, 2012 02:18PM)
Received the General Grant Tape Dye Tubes today, they are excellent, they have the rolled edge as well. These are made of heavy brass thus you will have more control over the moves. My ruler measures them at 2-1/4" by 1" in diameter. perfect for 15" and 18" silks. General Grant suggest a 3 momme silk in the 18" size. Comes with 3 pages of illustrated instructions on the handling to perform the dyeing of a silk using this device. It is painted flesh tone as well in case you flash by accident.

Unlike the Johnson Products Dye Tube that is no longer available. It would be possible to repair the tape if necessary in the distant future. I of course will take a little effort, but is is possible.

I highly recommend this Tape Dye Tube for it use and quality. I ordered 2 so I can perform many of the routines that use 2 Dye Tubes. The most surprising part is they are only $11.00 each plus postage. That is a great price in today world.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Jul 21, 2012 07:55PM)
Sorry, someone brought it to my attention, I gave the wrong address, General Grant's email address is ggmagic@aol.com sorry if this affected anyone else at getting returned emails.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Aug 4, 2012 02:24AM)
General Grant's Hand Silk Dye Tubes come with instructions for the wonderful and surprising "POP" appearance of the color changed silk. I tested several different 18 inch silk brands, Like Rice Silk King Studio's and other brands I have accumulated over the years. I found that do to the thickness or size differences when hemmed, the "POP" appearance would no work 100% of the time.

So I contacted Bob Sanders of Dovelite Magic and had him ship me 3 silks, 2 red and 1 green. Talk about fast service, with in 3 days they were in my mailbox, each in it own envelope. I got out the Grant Dye Tube and tested the silks, and I was ecstatic with joy. The "POP" worked the 1st time and every time I went through the routine. I don't know why, whether it is the thread count or the size, or the combination of these features, but it worked and that is all I needed.

So contact Bob Sanders here on the Café if you want the correct silks to fit your Grant Dye Tube. Highly recommended! The colors are bright! They look Great! And handle very well.

I was at Abbott's Get-Together Convention one year, and Mr. Jupiter from Europe was on the program. He performed the Color Changing silk silent to music. You should have been there when he performed the "POP" move. The whole audience gasp. No one had seen it before, including yours truly. It was a very magical appearance out of the bottom of the fist. It gave the trick a special "action" that no one in the audience has experienced before.

Well, that is about it, I have to go and dye some silks thanks now to General Grant and Bob Sanders.
Message: Posted by: Theodore Lawton (Aug 22, 2012 11:09AM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-16 06:57, Harry Murphy wrote:
Interesting that I bought a dye tube directly from Roger at a TAOM convention 20-25 years ago. He sold a package deal with silks and routine. The tube was not straight sides. It was more like the tube that Joe Poper now sells (with the bulge in the middle). It was short but held a fairly large silk. It was a joy for small hands to handle.

I've made dye tubes for years by rolling a playing card to the diameter I wanted and using flesh colored mole skin to cover it. The edges can be made to act "rolled in" by just folding an lip of the mole skin inside. They work for dozens of shows and take heavy abuse. Since I do a torn and restored card bit and/or a signed card to...bit I always have a box of random playing cards. Dye tubes do not have to be made out of plastic or metal and are not complicated affairs. Make four or five of these at a time (about 15 minutes time) and you'll have what you need for a hundred performances or more.

For larger dye tubes I've used the Kraft paper that file folders are made from. I've even used heavy plastic folders to make tubes. Scissors, tape (mole skin or simply flesh colored adhesive tape) and Bob's your aunt!

It is only a little more time and the used of a razor to put a ribbon/tape through the center if that is the kind of tube you want or need.

Remember this is a hidden (never to be seen) tool and doesn't have to be pretty only functional and as Lance suggests, just right for the application needed.
[/quote]

Thanks for all this great information. I'm working with a shoestring budget and this helps a lot.
Message: Posted by: Rainboguy (Dec 27, 2012 06:59PM)
Harry Murphy:

I got the same set from Roger, too, about 25 years ago at one of the Desert Magic Seminars....he did "Red and White" at one of his lectures..

Roger took some time to explain some fine points of the handling...I wish a had bought a couple of more sets as backups since the dye tube is unique and I like the feel of it for my hands, and more importantly, fingers, since I have smallish hands....and for kickover moves, they're great.

I believe that the best explanation out there for Roger's handling is in Lance's book...Roger Klause in Concert....GREAT BOOK!

And for newer magicians who worry about what exact type of dye tube/Palmo to get.........don't........just get one, work with it and learn to use it..........silks in and of themselves provide great cover....so don't worry....

Like Thumb Tips...Dye Tubes are "invisible assistants".
Message: Posted by: DrVG (Nov 30, 2020 08:53AM)
I am playing with dye silk concepts and looking for more references.
The handling by Roger Klause as displayed in the Red and White is so elegant https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHAbKmfnE8o
In which material could I find some of the subtleties he uses to make it some flowless ?
And as mentioned in the RK and Friends (2008), is there a performance footage available for viewing ?
thanks
Message: Posted by: Harry Murphy (Dec 9, 2020 06:29AM)
Roger made a couple of videos (now on DVD) "Roger Klause in Concert" and "Roger Klause Encore". Plus he made two Video's (now on DVD) for the Steven's Magic "Greater Magic" series, Numbers 11 (Roger Klause # 1) and 12 (Roger Klause #2). All are easy to find. Check out Meir Yedid's website for them.

https://www.mymagic.com/creator/roger-klause

The color changing silk routine has been taken off the "in Concert" video and made into an inexpensive download at the Meir Yedid site.

https://www.mymagic.com/l/stand-up-magic/red-white-video-roger-klause
Message: Posted by: Leo H (Jan 13, 2021 02:57PM)
Viking Magic sells a great classic ribbon dye tube, curled and straight edge. In steel for those that want to use a magnet:

https://www.vikingmagic.com/woocommerce-search/keyword/Dye+tube/search-in/product/cat-in/all/search-other/product
Message: Posted by: Josh Riel (Jan 13, 2021 06:48PM)
I love mine, I got it from Pop, but it doesn't look like it'll ever be available again. The Jim Riser Dye Tube, similar to the Palmo, but fits a 24" silk easily. I'm glad I bought 2 when they were last available.

I've looked around for various styles, and I've owned a few, but that style works well for me, particularly for stealing, where I totally agree with Bill Hegbli.
Straight sided tubes simply took too much effort, and a "smaller" tube didn't necessarily make it less visible.