(Close Window)
Topic: Street Hypnosis exposed for what it is!
Message: Posted by: hawaiihypnosis (Jul 10, 2012 08:10PM)
Recently I interviewed one of the ORIGINAL Street Hypnotists and he is ****ED! He is ****ed by what the modern day
Street Hypnotists aka Lurking Creepers have done to the industry!

Discover why he has claimed that Street Hypnosis is "Killing the industry and suffocating the art form"

http://www.hawaiihypnosis.org/podcasts/street-hypnosis-exposed/

Antonio
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 10, 2012 09:54PM)
Seems harsh.
Message: Posted by: quicknotist (Jul 10, 2012 11:55PM)
So be it.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Jul 11, 2012 12:05AM)
I've yet to hear any good guests on this. How about getting some of the bigger names in the business? Or at least some from here on the Café that are quite experienced? Mindpunisher, Danny?
Message: Posted by: quicknotist (Jul 11, 2012 12:08AM)
Now THAT'S harsh.
Message: Posted by: hawaiihypnosis (Jul 11, 2012 12:20AM)
I'm confused. If there are no good guests on my podcast's then why do you keep on listening?

Shout out to Anthony Jacquin, James Tripp, Igor Ledochowski, Stephen Brooks, Reg Blackwood, etc. I guess you guys aren't big names in the business. HA!

[quote]
On 2012-07-11 01:05, Mindpro wrote:
I've yet to hear any good guests on this. How about getting some of the bigger names in the business? Or at least some from here on the Café that are quite experienced? Mindpunisher, Danny?
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Jul 11, 2012 07:23AM)
I don't think we are in the same business to be honest. Most of the above are about repackaging crude hypnosis to appeal to amateurs who haven't a clue what they are being sold. My clients tend to be highly professional and have no need to stick someone's hand to a table. They want to be the best they can be in business and sport. My performance hypnosis is the same its professional not for amateurs.

I guess its beyond your target market. A market in which I don't want a name.

And we really need to listen to a podcast to tell us about the negative effects of street hypnosis? Ive been saying that since it crawled out of the gutter.

Heres the thing though. More and more I get pms asking for advice from those that bought into these courses. They now realize its not where they want to go or that the courses are not really that good.

Although I have heard there have been advancements made in the impromptu field. I believe they are sticking hands to heads now.... Marvelous stuff I'm not worthy to podcast alongside you guys.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Jul 11, 2012 05:17PM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-11 01:20, hawaiihypnosis wrote:
I'm confused. If there are no good guests on my podcast's then why do you keep on listening?

Shout out to Anthony Jacquin, James Tripp, Igor Ledochowski, Stephen Brooks, Reg Blackwood, etc. I guess you guys aren't big names in the business. HA!

[quote]
On 2012-07-11 01:05, Mindpro wrote:
I've yet to hear any good guests on this. How about getting some of the bigger names in the business? Or at least some from here on the Café that are quite experienced? Mindpunisher, Danny?
[/quote]
[/quote]

No offense meant to any of your guests and no I really haven't listened to more than a bit of one or two I believe, mainly because of the exact point I was trying to make. I've yet to find any of your guests exciting or interesting to entertaiment hypnosis. These names seem to be important to you and the the world of kids and amateurs as Mindpunisher describes, but I wouldn't consider them the biggest names in the world of entertainment hypnosis. Many of them are not from the U.S. which since you are in the states and this is a U.S.-based forum, I would think you would st least have a mix. I've yet to see any big name American stage hypnotists. Perhaps you had Nongard but he also has other interests.

Everything seems street, clinical, NLP, or newfangled trends, where are the real full-time hypnosis entertainer/performers?

Seems like this is just you doing interviews with those you are a fan of, and really has little to do with true entertainment hypnosis, which after all is what this forum is supposed to be about. You've had plenty of the trendy, how about some stage hypnotists?

Like Mindpunisher, I've been hearing more and more from the same guys that used to be all hot and bothered with this new trendy, newer stuff, which they've either run their course with, or have been extremely disappointed with their results, and are now wanting to discover more about the stage stuff many here have been discussing and performing for years.

I don't expect you to change your interests, but if in fact you are trying to serve the community, you are missing the boat. Many want to learn much more about stage and entertainment hypnosis than "sticking your hand to the table".
Message: Posted by: quicknotist (Jul 11, 2012 06:48PM)
Let's just clear up a few things.

I'm 44 and this year celebrate my 20th year as a full-time professional entertainer.

I have well respected, well attended live training courses on hypnosis which I have presented in New Zealand, Australia and the UK. They are attended by hypnotherapists, stage hypnotists and other performers.

I also tutor privately the same kind of people here in New Zealand and saw one when I was in the UK.
I've had people travel here to New Zealand from India and the UK specifically for these purposes. As far as I know, one of the UK guys is here on these forums but usually not very active or vocal.

The only under 18s I have ever trained in person were TWO truly exceptional individuals.

I have no problem teaching amateurs, as I too was once an amateur before I took the plunge (with help from The Prince Charles Youth Business Trust) all those years ago.

For those who can't see me in person (or as a reference source for those who can) I had a couple of my training sessions filmed. I edited them, transcribed them and put them online (together with a whole library of other educational material) at a price-point to dissuade those less serious about their education. I also offer Skype tutoring and once again, some here on this forum have participated in that, although I respect their right to remain silent about it.

Most of my trainees aren't the types who hang around on forums hero-worshiping me, but some of my products for mentalists have been publicly well received by that community and one buyer of my hypnosis training, a US based recent Emmy Award winner has been kind enough to name-check me a few times on social networks.

This evening, I am seeing a group of disabled children with a view to potentially carry out regular weekly stage performance workshops with them.

This weekend, I have a fundraising hypnosis gig for a children's toy library in a fairly isolated rural community which was badly affected by a series of devastating earthquakes we have had here, starting in September 2010.

In addition to these, so far in July, I have had five other paid gigs which I don't consider too bad considering that as a consequence of those same earthquakes, I lost my home, office and most of the city of Christchurch where I live and several of my contacts, acquaintances, friends of friends from the New Zealand media world were tragically killed.

So consequently, I have interesting stories and that means I get asked to speak about my life and my work on podcasts and other broadcasts, even though I live and work in parts of the world outside of the United States. (Yes. There really is a whole world out there.)

Seriously, I can understand why some might think many of you here come across as sounding bitter if this is the only place you have to voice YOUR opinions and tell your stories.
Message: Posted by: hypnokid (Jul 11, 2012 07:26PM)
I wonder who would do a podcast about rubbish stage hypnotists? I don't suppose anyone would be so dumb as to over generalise, would they?

HK
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 12, 2012 12:25AM)
I hope none of that rant was directed at me.
Message: Posted by: Anthony Jacquin (Jul 12, 2012 03:43AM)
I like Reg. I do not doubt his training is top drawer. His experience as a stand up comic carries just as much weight as his experience as a hypnotist, if not more. That said I did not like the tone of the podcast. Too much negativity. We should encourage amateurs rather than slag them off.

Leveraging hypnosis out of the confines of stage has breathed life into it rather than smothered it. It has opened it up to a new generation who do not wish to do the traditional hypnosis act. It is also a stepping stone for those that do.

Let's face it the traditional stage hypnosis act has been cloned for half a century with few true innovators.

Regarding thoughts about not getting paid. I know dozens of magicians and mentalists who get paid more and get more work than they would otherwise because they offer walk around hypnosis as part of their services.

I want to make budding hypnotists better rather than squash them for not being instantly unique. It takes time to develop an act and performing persona. The run up to that often involves doing some of what you have seen those you admire doing. This is the same in many creative arts. I respect anyone who finds the courage to have a go and is prepared to learn by asking questions and adapting what they do based on experience.

Anthony
Message: Posted by: dmkraig (Jul 12, 2012 12:12PM)
Anthony, I agree 100% that "we should encourage amateurs rather than slag them off."

Respectfully, however, you don't say what we should encourage them to do.

Should we encourage them to do what the show claimed some are doing, just stopping random people on the streets and attempting to hypnotize them?
Should we encourage amateurs to stick people's hands to their foreheads or to a trash can?
Should we encourage them to call themselves "hypnotherapists" and help people change their behaviors?

I don't think so.

I do think we should encourage amateurs to GET REAL TRAINING. You know, like taking the trainings you offer.

Unlike magic, you can't improve your abilities in hypnosis by standing in front of a mirror and endlessly practicing your sleights so that you'll know your angles and won't get caught. You have to practice hypnosis with other people.

Can you imagine someone saying, "I'm just starting in magic and I want to do this trick that I've only read about?" Totally ridiculous. And yet, that's the essence of what some people are suggesting people wanting to learn hypnosis should do.

Who are the people really encouraging amateurs, the ones who say, "just read a book and go do it" or the ones encouraging people interested in hypnosis to get training? The vast majority of those who just read a book, or watch some videos, have limited success at best or simply fail in their attempts. As a result, most of them do NOT continue with hypnosis. On the other hand, those willing to save their money, find a training, and learn the art, because they put so much into it, are far more likely to continue and succeed. Do all IROBs (I Read One Book) fail and do all people who take training succeed? Of course not. But for most people, actually taking a training is far more likely to result in long-term success than the read-a-book-and-do-it approach.

If people go down to the section of the Café where people offer tricks for sale, you'll often see that some people are selling effects within days or even hours of the effect being on the market. It's as if people buy them just to find out how it's done and then sell them. For most people, the read-a-book-and-do-it approach is far more likely to teach you ABOUT hypnosis rather than how to actually PERFORM hypnosis. Books and videos are fantastic for expanding upon a person's training, but I don't want people just to limit themselves to only knowing about hypnosis any more than I would support the "masked magician." I want to encourage amateurs with an interest in hypnosis to get trainings so they can become effective and entertaining hypnotists.

So yes, I encourage people to get training and become good at hypnosis. That's real encouragement because it is the most likely approach to short term and long term success.
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Jul 12, 2012 01:26PM)
I have to disagree with Kraig. I think the best way to pick up just about anything is to go out and start doing it. I have encountered plenty of people who get so bogged down in training they never go out and do anything. I am one of the read one book brigade, and I know others. At least it gets you out doing something.

After fifteen years I did two days of training with Anthony, and his sort of approach (which brings many new people into the business) does work. It works extremely well. Not everyone has the time or the interest to pursue a long and often irrelevant training programme.

Although I have never accosted a stranger on the street to hypnotise them, I have hypnotised at close-up gigs, and at festivals and fairs. Impromptu hypnosis can be great fun. It can also allow you to do more things in a traditional stage show. These days I tend to hypnotise one volunteer within a minute or so of starting a show, and doing some impromptu stuff with them. This forms a nice contrast with what comes later.

There is a place in the business for the street hypnotists. Perhaps not on the street, though...
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Jul 12, 2012 02:42PM)
Tony with GOOD training you DO go and do it. But more importantly you do it correctly so you learn quicker. Can you please tell me one thing more you can do with street hypnosis that you cannot do on stage? As far as I can see street hypnosis involves about half a dozen or maybe less basic phenomena stunts over and over?

If you mean more I think you mean more gigs? Then that might be true.

The vast majority attracted to street hypnosis appear to be amateur enthusiasts and magicians who don't really want to learn hypnosis. And mostly just want to feel powerful in public by getting attention with no payment.

I think it attracts the wrong people for the wrong reasons. and it just looks terrible. In fact the meeting I went to just looked really sad.

I can understand the attraction for marketing such courses though. Its an easy market with low expectations I mean they will have an orgasm if they stick a hand to a table or get someone to forget their name. Its a strange phenomena hobby or whatever you want to call it.

It just doesn't appeal to me on any level.
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Jul 12, 2012 06:01PM)
MP, the chief appeal is as an opener for the stage show. On Saturday I was doing a 40th birthday in a pub. Tough crowd - the show was a surprise to the birthday girl, and she didn't want it. Within a minute I had grabbed one man from the audience and I went into a street routine. Nothing fancy - his arm rose, his hand stuck to his face, he giggled uncontrollably, he couldn't remember his name. I got a quick laugh, but more importantly demonstrated that I could do what I claimed. So when I called for volunteers a few minutes later, the chairs were full fast. And that is not common in a rural Irish pub.

It also helped give a bit of a texture to the show. It wasn't all just a panel doing things. The one on one gave variety. As I said, I don't do it on the streets. If no one is paying, I'm not playing.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 13, 2012 01:00AM)
I think that is theatrically poor. Jump to later in the show and those sorts of routines then jump back and ask for people and do an induction. Has no flow and makes no sense to he.

Maybe for the area it is perfect I can not say. But as a theatrical presentation it is fairly disjointed.

I am not saying it is right or writing. It is obviously right for you so cool.
Message: Posted by: DavidSena (Jul 13, 2012 04:54AM)
Only checked this topic today...jeez such harsh comments being thrown.
Well in any case I guess that many ppl failed to grasp the real problem Reg was trying to pass on the podcast which is exactly what kraig was pointing: amateurs learning the bare minimum and running outside "to play" with a camera on their shoulders and "hypnotizing" every single chap they can catch and that's one of the fundamental problems I've discussed with Reg in the past.

For the bitter professionals: Reg was kind enough to mentor me throughout my hypnosis path when he had no reason whatsoever to do so...he knew I had bought several products from other hypnotists and was learning by myself. Despite that, he took his own time to guide me towards the right direction by taking into consideration what I had learned (good and BAD) and guided me so I wouldn't make the same mistakes that most beginners do. Everything he taught and offered me was at NO charge whatsoever. Reg just saw a young man who wanted to learn and study hypnosis and avoided that I would become another street hypnosis case.
I very much doubt any of the top stage hypnotists in this thread would even bother in providing the same guidance to anyone as they're above every single amateur out there.
It's nice to complain about situations when you do nothing to change them but when someone goes and "makes a podcast" saying it, everyone says it's pointless and that person knows nothing on the subject. The fact of the matter is that Reg took his time to record this podcast and shared his opinions (which I haven't seen anyone say that are wrong).

David
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Jul 13, 2012 04:37PM)
Danny, on paper I might agree with you. In practice it works out very well in the sort of pub environment I find myself performing in. If I was doing a theatre or student show, I would do it differently. But my pub shows have improved substantially since I have begun doing it this way. Getting one person up breaks down inhibitions, and gets everyone's attention before I call for the main volunteers. Pubs want a good laugh for an hour, rather than a carefully structured show.

DavidSena, I can't speak for the others, but whenever an amateur or beginner contacts me I give them every help and guidance I am capable of. When I was booked for my first show and didn't have a clue what to do Adrian Knight, a very talented pro, took the time to explain the basics to me. Barry Sinclair, a legend in the business, has answered honestly any question I have ever put to him. We are not all ogres!
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Jul 13, 2012 05:24PM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-12 19:01, TonyB2009 wrote:
MP, the chief appeal is as an opener for the stage show. On Saturday I was doing a 40th birthday in a pub. Tough crowd - the show was a surprise to the birthday girl, and she didn't want it. Within a minute I had grabbed one man from the audience and I went into a street routine. Nothing fancy - his arm rose, his hand stuck to his face, he giggled uncontrollably, he couldn't remember his name. I got a quick laugh, but more importantly demonstrated that I could do what I claimed. So when I called for volunteers a few minutes later, the chairs were full fast. And that is not common in a rural Irish pub.

It also helped give a bit of a texture to the show. It wasn't all just a panel doing things. The one on one gave variety. As I said, I don't do it on the streets. If no one is paying, I'm not playing.
[/quote]

that's not street hypnosis you are doing its a show its stage hypnosis its not street. that's what everyone forgets. Street hypnosis is just watered down stage hypnosis usually performed very badly. Strett hypnosis is about acosting complete strangers in public places and trying to hypnotize them..

Pubs just want a laugh and not a structured show? What does that mean. Stage hypnosis is about getting laughs !
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Jul 13, 2012 05:55PM)
David

Why would I be a bitter professional? Unlike Reg I am not selling hypnosis products or trainings aimed at the street enthusiasts so why would I help you become a street hypnotist? The truth is I have helped many on here in my posts and by pm by providing them with info and help to pursue a professional direction in either stage or therapy. The archives are full of them...if you care to actually look. But of you are searching for street you won't find anything.

I am not above any amatuer. EVERYBODY starts out as an Amatuer including those bitter professionals you talk about. If I ever do do training and I get asked often it will be training to help create professional hypnotists coaches or therapists that get real results in the real world. That make careers and money from what they do. That hopefully make a difference.

I am not interested in sending people into the streets or bars to ambush the public and get them to stick their hands on their heads. If that how you get your kicks then I will accept its what you want to do. Its just that I am not really interested or inspired teaching you how to do it.

But good luck with it anyway..
Message: Posted by: DavidSena (Jul 13, 2012 06:36PM)
Like I said before, thanks to Reg I didn't become another Street Hypnosis case. I don't have any special fascination for street hypnosis, I just want to study it seriously, take my time doing so, go one step at the time and nothing more. I know there are no magical shortcuts so I just study and pratice, taking my time.
Despite what the name of Reg's course implies, everything Reg teaches is pointed more to stage hypnosis than street hypnosis. When you get to the end of the course, he provides a bridge for those who want to pursue that path and once again he warns everyone about the dangers, potential problems, etc.
And no the bitter professional comment wasn't directed at you.
Message: Posted by: quicknotist (Jul 13, 2012 06:41PM)
So. You have read all of this, you have seen the theme of the podcast (even if you refuse to listen) yet you still think that's what I teach and encourage?! Unbelievable.

Well, there's no point me saying anything further on this subject since you've already reached that conclusion and refuse to believe anything else.

Anybody else reading this thread and who has listened to the podcast will see just how silly you're being Brian. Wake up, have a good stretch and take a good hard look at yourself.

However, feel free to keep bumping the thread to the top, Antonio and myself are most grateful for that.

[quote]
On 2012-07-13 18:55, mindpunisher wrote:
David

Why would I be a bitter professional? Unlike Reg I am not selling hypnosis products or trainings aimed at the street enthusiasts so why would I help you become a street hypnotist? The truth is I have helped many on here in my posts and by pm by providing them with info and help to pursue a professional direction in either stage or therapy. The archives are full of them...if you care to actually look. But of you are searching for street you won't find anything.

I am not above any amatuer. EVERYBODY starts out as an Amatuer including those bitter professionals you talk about. If I ever do do training and I get asked often it will be training to help create professional hypnotists coaches or therapists that get real results in the real world. That make careers and money from what they do. That hopefully make a difference.

I am not interested in sending people into the streets or bars to ambush the public and get them to stick their hands on their heads. If that how you get your kicks then I will accept its what you want to do. Its just that I am not really interested or inspired teaching you how to do it.

But good luck with it anyway..
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Jul 13, 2012 07:01PM)
Reg if you make sales out of this great. Its not in my interest to stop you getting sales. If you or Ant get sales from this great. I have taken a good look at myself Reg I know what I like and I know what I want to be associated with.

I haven't listened the podcast no. I have no interest in doing so.
Message: Posted by: hypnokid (Jul 14, 2012 05:29AM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-13 18:24, mindpunisher wrote:
that's not street hypnosis you are doing its a show its stage hypnosis its not street. that's what everyone forgets. Street hypnosis is just watered down stage hypnosis usually performed very badly. Strett hypnosis is about acosting complete strangers in public places and trying to hypnotize them..
[/quote]

You are wrong, but nevermind.

HK
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 14, 2012 05:21PM)
I have to jump in here. I don't think any rational reading of this, or any thread Reg has posted would indicate his encouraging these.thinfs. I think we need to get rod if some pre conceived notions and actually read what people write.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Jul 15, 2012 11:39AM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-14 06:29, hypnokid wrote:
[quote]
On 2012-07-13 18:24, mindpunisher wrote:
that's not street hypnosis you are doing its a show its stage hypnosis its not street. that's what everyone forgets. Street hypnosis is just watered down stage hypnosis usually performed very badly. Strett hypnosis is about acosting complete strangers in public places and trying to hypnotize them..
[/quote]

You are wrong, but nevermind.

HK
[/quote]

How would you know? Hypnosis is hypnosis and street is just a watered down amateur version of professional stage hypnosis. Every stunt you see on on any street video has been done on the stage for many many years. There is absolutely nothing new its all as old as the hills. But most getting into hypnosis this way wouldn't have a clue. And that's the problem... I have also seen stage hypnotist hypnotize one person first even that's not a new idea. Robert Halpern used to do it when I was kid.

Danny I don't have a problem with Reg I like him actually and hes good at what he does. I just don't like street hypnosis... in any form.
Message: Posted by: hypnokid (Jul 15, 2012 12:09PM)
Wood, trees.

HK
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Jul 15, 2012 08:09PM)
I had a quick listen to half of the mp3. I think Reg is a genuine guy. But I did find it a bit strange the comments about gangs of hypnotists going about taking away the specialness of hypnosis implying that anybody can do hypnosis. Because that's what marketing street hypnosis has done. You can't clean up an industry or make hypnosis special by selling more cheap products aimed at more street performers. you are just going to get more of the same if not worse. If someone wants to market products this way its their choice but it can only devalue hypnosis more.


Does this mean that Reg has now become the first old crusty street hypnotist because he can't deny the effect of the damage that has been done?
Message: Posted by: hypnokid (Jul 16, 2012 03:18AM)
Oh no, it's not special anymore. I better moan about it.

Probably worth pointing out that the last story on here of a novice hypnotist threatening to cause damage to the industry was an apparently badly trained STAGE hypnotist.

Please, for the love of Bobser, can we simply only hate on the badly trained rather than acting like a monkey and over generalising about all street hypnotists.

HK
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Jul 16, 2012 04:30AM)
You just don't get it hypnokid..

Hypnosis is hypnosis all these products are killing the industry stage and street.

There is no such a thing as a well trained street hypnotist. Every year in Edinburgh we see jugglers and guys on mono cycles on the street. 10 a penny. Now more magicians trying to do mentalism. Last year I walked up the street and saw 4 all the hand stab with polystyrene cups. Hypnosis in the street is doing the same its devaluing it. And all because dealers want to make a few quick bucks nothing more.

There is no difference between stage or street other than location. But Street is the worst thing to ever happen to hypnosis. It is and will kill it dead. The constant sale of stage hypnosis products are doing just about the same amount of damage too.
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Jul 16, 2012 05:26AM)
I agree about hypnosis being devalued. Every second !@#$%^& is now mentalist now. They are all putting together their version of Derren browns latest show. And every mentalist seem to include rapid inductions. If they can stick a leg to the floor they call themselves a hypnotist and think that they are doing the same stuff as I But they aren't.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Jul 16, 2012 06:56AM)
DM said

>>>>Anthony, I agree 100% that "we should encourage amateurs rather than slag them off."

Respectfully, however, you don't say what we should encourage them to do.

Should we encourage them to do what the show claimed some are doing, just stopping random people on the streets and attempting to hypnotize them?
Should we encourage amateurs to stick people's hands to their foreheads or to a trash can?
Should we encourage them to call themselves "hypnotherapists" and help people change their behaviors?

I don't think so.

I do think we should encourage amateurs to GET REAL TRAINING. You know, like taking the trainings you offer. <<<



Have you seen any of the training products such as the Manchurian DM?

Obviously not because all of the above is exactly what Ant teaches. He is one of the main reasons most of the stuff on the podcast that Reg slates are happening. But hes ok with it because that's exactly what he teaches.


Wish people on here would have the back bone to tell it like it is.

However its getting to a point now where it can no longer be ignored hence Reg's podcast.

Which won't change anything other than encourage a few more idiots to add to the decline of hypnosis.

No one is slagging anyone its calling a spade a spade.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 16, 2012 08:39AM)
I America it is a trend and it takes a decade or so to wind through it.

Hypnosis is one of those things that people always like. Bad hypnotists can AND DO make pretty good money till they run out of first time clients.

The cycle follows different things. Comedy clubs were part of it believe it or not. When comedy clubs boom lots of comedians working. But when they bust lots go to a weekend seminar and are hypnotists offering to work for less than the experienced guy. They even have relationships with the bookers. Then they blow it.

This happens in all sorts of entertainment and it is not going to stop. Sure at one point it might have cost me work but not now. The idea that a street hypnotist has cost anyone work baffles me. Does a guy singing in the street cost recording artists ticket sales? News flash guys the ONLY person who can devalue what you do is YOU.

I for one make sure clients know what I offer is special because of me, not because of what I am offering. It is a different approach but it works. It also keeps them looking for the cheapest they can find.

Complaining about it doesn't help. Gotta adjust or move along. I am not a fan of the street hyp guys either. Mostly because of pure boredom. None has or can cost me a job.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Jul 16, 2012 12:05PM)
You are in a position that is unique. Much like the only two hypnotists that still work in the UK they have the only two venues that still sell tickets ( nobody knows why). They have both failed outside those venues.

If all of a sudden you lost control over your little safe bubble and loads of hypnotists descended upon your patch causing problems it would affect you. Of course it would.

Putting that aside of course loads of cheap hypnotists will affect a market. Universities over here still use the odd hypnotist. But at one time would pay up to £3k for one. And that was 15 years ago. Now they are paying £160 - £500 maximum. At least that's the ones in my country. And they rebook them every year because they are cheap. And some hypnotists are traveling up to 500 miles to get the gig. Not only that there are four or five hypnotists after each gig.



But devaluing something isn't just about the money. If you can't see how this devalues the art then no point wasting any breath.

Its easy to sit smug when you have locked yourself into a unique venue. Come over here and give it ago.

The only thing that devalues a fee is market driven and markets ALL markets are affected in a number of ways. I saw four magicians do the hand stab with polystyrene cups in one tiny street. I then went to see a show later with the same routine. even the same props. My friend a lay person said at the paid shows..... " I realise now Derren Brown is nothing special anybody can do this" Do you think he will ever go to a paid show again?

I know for a fact he won't he thinks mentalists including Brown are boring now... Same with anything including hypnosis.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 16, 2012 12:32PM)
You gotta ask how you get locked into those places in the first place? Did I fall off a turnip truck in front of the place?
Message: Posted by: hypnokid (Jul 17, 2012 04:54AM)
Okay, MonkeyPunisher, continue to moan. Impromptu hypnotists weren't sharking for the venues you were playing, only better and cheaper stage hypnotists were. And you know what, you lost out, probably because you moaned about it instead of doing something about it. Maybe you weren't good enough, or maybe you were too expensive, or maybe venue managers just didn't want to work with you ever again, who knows?

I take it you've never heard of NLP? Apparently it can help you change the way you think and act. Maybe you should seek out a hypnotherapist - I understand Anthony Jacquin is excellent at this and very reasonable value for money.

In the mean time, man up and accept your own involvement in your lack of career. Street or impromptu hypnotists are not your enemy nor the cause of your lack of work. But if you would prefer to spend your time moaning instead of working then carry on. I doubt many are still reading.

Happy hypnosis

HK
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Jul 18, 2012 05:11PM)
HK, what an immature post. Nothing more to say on it really.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Jul 18, 2012 05:44PM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-16 13:32, Dannydoyle wrote:
You gotta ask how you get locked into those places in the first place? Did I fall off a turnip truck in front of the place?
[/quote]

Its easy to explain how you get locked into those places Danny you get there first! Once these places are gone they are gone. (unless a hypnotist makes a complete arse of it) If you were starting out today you wouldn't be able to get them you even told me that yourself in a pm. I am not downing you in anyway that is simply the truth. On the other hand If I were trying to break into the situation you are in should there be one available you would be the first guy I would approach because I recognize your expertise gained over the years. I have a lot of respect for you in that regards,
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Jul 18, 2012 05:47PM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-17 05:54, hypnokid wrote:
Okay, MonkeyPunisher, continue to moan. Impromptu hypnotists weren't sharking for the venues you were playing, only better and cheaper stage hypnotists were. And you know what, you lost out, probably because you moaned about it instead of doing something about it. Maybe you weren't good enough, or maybe you were too expensive, or maybe venue managers just didn't want to work with you ever again, who knows?

I take it you've never heard of NLP? Apparently it can help you change the way you think and act. Maybe you should seek out a hypnotherapist - I understand Anthony Jacquin is excellent at this and very reasonable value for money.

In the mean time, man up and accept your own involvement in your lack of career. Street or impromptu hypnotists are not your enemy nor the cause of your lack of work. But if you would prefer to spend your time moaning instead of working then carry on. I doubt many are still reading.

Happy hypnosis

HK
[/quote]

You've just illustrated why I don't like cheap products encouraging kids to play around with hypnosis. Its nothing to do with my career it just saddens me to see hypnosis being dragged into the gutter. How could I expect you to understand when that's they only place you have been. ( and more than likely will ever be ) I apologize for crediting you with more intelligence than you actually have. you don't even know what real hypnosis is.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 18, 2012 05:55PM)
So you.think it is all just luck? You get there first? How ridiculous with all due respect.

You get there first by not going where others already are!

Wanna know how to spot a pioneer? Those are the guys with all the arrows in their backs! There was NO MARKET before I showed up. I created it and continue to.

It is about the amount of work and sacrifice one is willing to put in . I can think of at least 5 completely untapped gold mines right off the top of my head. They would take work to extract it, but it is there. But everyone wants to pick low hanging fruit.

If you are not willing to do these things the only thing left is to complain and that ain't my style.

Plus it is more than just not being a jerk. It is about relationships, it is about dependability, it is about running a great business. The show is actually a quite small part of it.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Jul 18, 2012 06:12PM)
I never said its all luck Danny read my post I said its about getting there first. If someone had got there before you then no matter how much hard work you were willing to do you wouldn't be there. That is simply a fact.

Starting out now you wouldn't be able to find those places you know its true. I said in my post I hsve a lot of respect for you so take a chill pill and read what I wrote..

Of course I understand pioneering what do you think I am doing now? Do you see me lining up with the others selling out and dealing crap hypnosis products to anyone that will buy? Do you see me pandering to the lowest market and leaving a legacy I would be ashamed off for a few bucks because that's as far as my ability would take me?

No I go where there is no one at least here in the UK and pioneer a system that is taking me towards working with the top golf pros with no track record. Do you think that has been easy from a standing still and with no contacts. Do think I don't understand about finding something where no one has gone before and locking myself in?

I tell you something ~I bet the golf is just as difficult if not a LOT more difficult as I have to get the results I claim. But even getting the opportunities to prove my point involves years of building relationships, cutting through politics and sheer bull headed stubbornness.

I did the same in the past with stage hypnosis but now there no such opportunities so I have created one out of sheer determination and self belief.

And let me tell you something about Jerks. 90% of those in professional golf at a high level or those that play golf in exclusive courses ARE jerks. YOu have to be one step ahead of them all the time and build relationships with those that will steal from you use you and steal all credit all in a diplomatic way so that you don't close any doors or burn bridges.

But its the only path in. Trust me I more than understand what its like to be a pioneer.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 18, 2012 06:59PM)
Do you see when you write "it is easy to explain you got there first", then follow it up with downplaying what it takes it makes you seem a little bitter?

You make it sound like only you have the truth. Like only you have the path and everyone else is lucky. You should really read how it sounds.

I for one am happy the money hasn't left the stage just yet.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Jul 18, 2012 07:15PM)
Danny

Its easy to explain doesn't mean its easy to do. BUT its now IMPOSSIBLE TO DO because the places are taken. that isn't my truth ITS THE TRUTH, It really is that simple. Yes there are a lot of jerks around but you aren't the only one who is willing to work or can see opportunities. BUT THERE HAS TO BE OPPORTUNITIES TO SEE IN THE FIRST PLACE. And just as you told me yourself once privately you wouldn't like to be starting today because there are no openings. I am not downplaying anything.

Its sounds that way to your ears its not what I wrote. I am creating a path I don't know the only path. The one I have embarked upon is the only path open to me I don't have contacts or any other way to get in. I don't have money to join exclusive clubs and hang out with the rich. I have had to be creative. Do you know I haven't even ever played a game of golf! I don't even know the rules!

I would be shocked if you weren't happy that the money hasn't left the stage at least for you yet. May you get many more years out of it. I am only saying its not that way for everyone. And you are in (even if a deserved )very fortunate position.

And I will be honest about the golf. I saw an opportunity but if I knew at the start it was going to be as half as difficult as it has turned out I would never have gone down that route. Its just that I have come so far now I can't turn back. Besides I am now finally beginning to break through.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 18, 2012 09:49PM)
I still say there are at least 5 stage markets that are untapped gold mines. That is without even thinking too hard.

I have no idea how I would learn my craft today. Comedy clubs are basically gone. The exam path I took doesn't exist.

But make no mistake, there are LOTS of markets out in the world for a good stage hypnotist to use if he is smart. Where to get the experience to become good is the hard part.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Jul 19, 2012 01:32AM)
So should I get the Mark Lewis video's or not?
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 19, 2012 07:25AM)
Why not?
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Jul 19, 2012 07:37AM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-18 22:49, Dannydoyle wrote:
I still say there are at least 5 stage markets that are untapped gold mines. That is without even thinking too hard.

I have no idea how I would learn my craft today. Comedy clubs are basically gone. The exam path I took doesn't exist.

But make no mistake, there are LOTS of markets out in the world for a good stage hypnotist to use if he is smart. Where to get the experience to become good is the hard part.
[/quote]

How do you know no one is doing them?

Maybe you don't - maybe you just think they are gold mines. It wouldn't the first time I though a certain market was a goldmine only to find out the opposite when tested.

The truth is you have no idea if any of these are until tested.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 19, 2012 08:39AM)
No the truth is YOU don't know. You have no idea what I have or have not tested or what experience I am speaking from.

This is where you get into trouble. You think that since YOU can't figure out how to do it or haven't thought of doing it then it can't be done. Well sorry to tell you that is not the measuring stick the world uses.

I am telling you for a FACT they are untapped and nobody is there, and there IS a market. It is not a guess, it is a fact. Don't assume everyone is stuck at your level of knowledge. Get over it.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Jul 19, 2012 09:05AM)
Well where is the evidence? You are so fond of asking that question which I have provided you with before. A market isn't a fact until its a market. There is no market if no one is there. Its like saying there's a party with no people.

Until you show me any evidence you are talking hot air.

And a market will only be so once you or someone else IS there not until. you believe there is a market or could be a market but that doesn't make it so.

And that's where you come unstuck...
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 19, 2012 09:21AM)
Your lack of knowledge masquarading as arrogance is amusing.

Are you intentionally obtuse? I have to prove ANYTHING to you? LOL. Why? Some faceless name on a message board and you are the arbitor of what is or isn't a market, a show, a routine or success? Are you reading what you are writing?

Do something other than whine and complain about others on a message board. There I have given you step one. The world is bigger than the island you choose to limmit yourself to. There I have given you step two. How many steps down this road do I have to hold your hand for?

Let me make this simple, hopefully simple enough for you. I have been offered 5 different opportunities in WRITING to go to markets where there are no other people doing what I do! It is a FACT. Now what I have to scan and show you the offer sheets? Oh and a street hypnotist has never cost me a dime. Much the way a Kareoke singer hasn't cost Bono much.

God you are bitter.

But lets make it easy. NOBODY but YOU has ever been worthy of a show, a contract, money or does anything worthwhile. There.

Why do I feed the troll?
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Jul 19, 2012 09:42AM)
Now watching you getting emotional with meaningless sentences with no real content is quite amusing on one hand. I get the feeling yo have a real chip on your shoulder. Where I have I ever said in any of my posts that I am the only one who deserves a contract or showor anything if that matters? I have in great detail in the past posted warts and all accounts of mistakes nd short coming's I've made.

And where in any of my recent posts in this thread have I said that you or anyone wasn't deserving of any achievements? I woud be really grateful if you could just point out one line that suggests that.

I don't know what you are reading but its not what I am writing. I get the feeling you are really insecure about something that you would make you lash out with such a sensesless post that has had no obvious provocation.

But just to reiterate a market doesn't exist until there is someone there doing it. Until then it is either only a belief or a possibility that's basic business. Even with some research its not a market until its proved itself.

Please tell me why that offends you and why that suggests I thonk I am the only one worthy of a contract or show? Because I am scratching my head in disbelief as to how you could come to that conclusion. Everything I ever done that has been successful as well as hard work involved a lot of luck and being in the right place at the right time. And maybe a lot of rejection in between. But that's the same for everybody. I have believed that there were great markets even after an initial test to find they didn't exist at all once I spent a lot of time and resources trying it.

How does that make me bitter?

I think it makes me level headed but then I can't control what runs around in your head. You can only see what you are looking for not what is actually there.
Again Danny isn'tead of pointless emoitional posts for no reason show me how you have come to these conclusions?

You used to be such a great one for asking for evidence what wrong with you now?

Trying to have a serious conversation with you but you are stuck in defense mode. you atre fighting something that is not there.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 19, 2012 10:44AM)
Who is emotional? You are adding that all in your own mind.

Pointing out where you are wrong is not emotional, it is not defensive, it is pointing out where you are wrong.

Every post you make comes off as I said. Where you seem to think you are the final word.

Dudethe world is a lot bigger than that island you live on. Go out and experience some of it. You won't regret it.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Jul 19, 2012 11:00AM)
Really? Look at your words....hardly a logical post Danny. You still haven't shown me how you came to those conclusions? I can't see anywhere where I have said anything about you or your achievements that are negative. In fact I even told you I have a lot of respect for you.The only negativity I have in this thread is towards street hypnosis. I am looking hard but I can't see anywhere where I say I am the only one to deserve a contract or show?

Where does that come from? Its not from my writing its from your head. These are emotional reactions.

I am a bit disappointed as I was wanting a serious conversation from you. But you seem to be on the defense when I delivered no attack.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 19, 2012 11:15AM)
Lack if knowledge thinly veiled as arrogance.

Once more just because YOU can't see it in no way means it doesn't exist. It speaks only to your lack of ability to see. Not emotional, just facts.

You like to make grand pronouncements about how things are. Fact is you live in a fairly small place. I am just telling you the world is much bigger.
Message: Posted by: Exitmat (Jul 19, 2012 02:28PM)
The hypnosis forum here on the Café is always so negative. It's sad to see that so many hypnotists are such miserable people offstage.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Jul 19, 2012 02:58PM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-19 15:28, Exitmat wrote:
The hypnosis forum here on the Café is always so negative. It's sad to see that so many hypnotists are such miserable people offstage.
[/quote]

That's quite incorrect, however seems to be the perception to younger guys or those newer to here. The reality is it is a serious frustration from those that have made their living in this profession for decades, to see it being diminished, trivialized and cheapened by a new generation, without regard or respect for those that have paved the way, kept the industry at a well-regarded profession, and care about our industry and it's future. It's the reducing it to the level of magicians, DJs, and street performers that is changing the industry and the perception of it. This is only unfortunately heightened by those that don't understand it and seem to focus on the frustrated tone, rather than the message itself and the points being demonstrated.
Message: Posted by: quicknotist (Jul 19, 2012 05:13PM)
It's clear to anyone who knows me and my background/training that I have the utmost respect for those who genuinely paved the way and hold many of them in very high regard indeed.
I have no gripes with those who do what they do in a genuinely entertaining and professional manner, regardless of their generation, geographical location or length of time on the scene.
What I find most interesting though is how you make it sound like the industry was spotless until the street guys came along.
However, I think you know it wasn't all rosy before. Never has been, never will be.
There were and still are plenty of stage hypnotists already diminishing, trivializing and cheapening it.
So much so, that in some cases, it would most certainly be RAISING it to the level of those professions you seem to hold in such low regard.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Jul 19, 2012 07:01PM)
No it wasn't rosey I agree totally. There are dozens of "stage" hypnotists diminishing hypnosis for same reason dozens and dozens of cheap courses products training them. The market isn't big enough. And just because someone calls them self a stage hypnotist means nothing. Its not that I have regards for any type of hypnotists although I might have high regard for certain individuals The street though has created an even lower level if you ask me.

Like you said on your podcast gangs going around with name badges in public places... accosting people. But anyway everyone to his own.

If certain individuals want to pump out these products and fill the streets or markets nothing is going to stop them. its just how it is.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 19, 2012 07:13PM)
I have never seem a street hypnotist except for the internet. I don't even know of anyone who has run into one.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Jul 19, 2012 07:29PM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-19 12:15, Dannydoyle wrote:
Lack if knowledge thinly veiled as arrogance.

Once more just because YOU can't see it in no way means it doesn't exist. It speaks only to your lack of ability to see. Not emotional, just facts.

You like to make grand pronouncements about how things are. Fact is you live in a fairly small place. I am just telling you the world is much bigger.
[/quote]

So you aren't going to back up some of those weirder posts and insults does that mean you owe me an apology? I would get those voices that speak to you seen to mate because they are definitely out of the box..

Go back over your posts then find one of mine that matches what your voices say just one?

Where have I made a grand pronouncement that your part of the world is the same as mine. In fact I am constantly telling you things are different here to where you are. If you are referring to a market not being a market until someone is doing it? That is plain marketing. I got that notion from reading a book by Dan Kennedy. Correct me if I am wrong but hes from your part of the world.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 20, 2012 01:24AM)
What evidence do you want. Should I provide you with contact numbers for the places? How about I page for your flight too and just give it to you?

Are you serious or delusional?
Message: Posted by: hypnokid (Jul 20, 2012 05:10PM)
Wow, what a lot of stuff.

I think MindPunisher is saying that there are no opportunities open to him. I think Danny is saying that he has been offered opportunities presumably as a stage hypnotist that he hasn't taken up, implying they may still exist. I think Danny is suggesting that if the opportunieis will not come to the hypnotist then the hypnotist could go to the opportunities. So its not so much that the opoportunieis don't exist for MindPunisher, its more that he doesn't want to travel to them. If he can't afford to travel, well, that's more about making opportunies happen than the cash in his trousers - what would Alan Sugar say?

By the way, I loved this quote: "90% of those in professional golf at a high level or those that play golf in exclusive courses ARE jerks." - Brian Halliday, hypnotist to golfers. Amazing what some people will write.

HK
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Jul 20, 2012 05:37PM)
Hypno Kid, most people at the top of sports in any discipline are jerks. That is how they got there - through ruthlessness and putting themselves ahead of everyone else. The only long-term study of the influence of sport on character (by long-term, I mean thirty years plus) shows that it is detrimental to what most of us would consider positive character traits.

Sports people use drugs, they take unfair advantages, they fake injuries to get penalties. Some go so far as to injure opponents - remember Tanya Harding? Roy Keane? Perhaps MP is telling the truth. He has worked with them; you haven't.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Jul 20, 2012 08:10PM)
I don't know why HK is even on here as usual contributes nothing and demonstrates why he will never become anything more than where he is.

I wish I had access to professional hypnotists when I was at his stage he doesn't appreciate what he has. And what he might learn if he just grew up a bit.

Instead he thinks he is an equal here..... And that any posts he makes has any real credibility or value.

The internet has a lot to answer for..
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 20, 2012 09:15PM)
Most people at the too of the sports profession are jerks? Generalize much?

Sorry but I work with and know a whole lot of professional athletes and you are just wrong.
Message: Posted by: hypnokid (Jul 21, 2012 05:30AM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-20 21:10, mindpunisher wrote:
I wish I had access to professional hypnotists when I was at his stage he doesn't appreciate what he has. And what he might learn if he just grew up a bit.
[/quote]

Tell me again about how you are thinking of offering mentoring to be a successful, busy, respected stage hypnotist.

HK
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Jul 21, 2012 06:39AM)
Funny you should say that HK

I am kicking around the idea of licensing my process to hypnotists who want to get better results for themselves and their clients. I've been asked to do training for ages but up until now have kept well away from it. Basically because the market is saturated by training.

Finally I am thinking about revealing my own models and processes that I have developed over the last 20 years. These are the same models that have

Broke sales records for Mercedes Benz in less than 14 days how I have used it to increase sales for Harley Davidson and
Enabled small recruitment agencies to win contracts of £360 000 and more where before they had never had a contract anywhere near that
Enabled Bernardo's to move a 250k donation to a £1million pound committment at one meeting using hypnotic language.
How I consulted EEIC in their bid to bring the NATO Summit to Edinburgh by sitting in on all their sales presentations and giving them advice and training on sales hypnosis.

dozens of therapy clients including a golf coach who had no famous clients and after working with me using my techniques and changing his mindset got to work with Colin Montgomery and Seve Ballestros and credits that programme with enabling him to move into a bigger house.

Recently working with an ex British Junior Sprinter who after a serious hamstring injury had a mental block and was about to pack in athletics altogether. After our first session he cut 4 seconds of his personal best which is huge for a sprinter. He now just came third in the British SENIOR and is at least four years younger than the two above him. Makes him the fastest sprinter under 20 in the UK. I continue to work with him.

Then recently the golfer who's life was ruined because of cheating allegations. If you google his name you will see all the press for the last two years won't let him forget his cheating. When he came to me he was in a really bad way. After 4 sessions using my unique process he wiped all the past away and within weeks dropped hos score by a huge 34 strokes to come second in the Ulster Bank Open, Qualify for the British open, Smash through all records to win the Irish Masters and come on top of the PGA Euro tour. His press has went from being the villain of golf to being credited with an amazing comeback. And all of these achievents he got since working with me in May. Even getting compliments from Tiger Woods Caddy who put a bet on him to win the open. He is a minor player. I was supposed to be with him at the open this weekend BUT since we did last session he and his coach thought they could do it without me and cut me out. I've had to sit all week and watch interviews on tv and the press about how hes learned to manage his mind and watch his coach take all credit. But guess what he FELL ON HIS ARSE....

So how does that fit in with stage hypnotists?

At this moment I am thinking of putting on a series of seminars/trainings that first of expose the delegates to the process so that they personally can start making those internal changes in order to breakthrough where they are. They can then if they so wish come on the additional day where wee break everything down and show them how they can use the same process with their clients.

They will also learn models that enable them to identify hypnotic patterns in every day life which is at the basis of being able to extend hypnosis way beyond the limited normal set of therapy contexts and to also create better responses in their stage volunteers.

For stage hypnotists they can learn about my ideas on trance personalities and how to make them explode on stage rather than be directed on what to do..... my structure format for a two hour theatre show .... and learn from my experiences of doing theatres etc. I am not claiming I know everything in this area but what I do know will be shared.

These are just my intial thoughts but I would only consider doing a training if it was something that's not currently being done. And it will be for those who want to take hypnosis in general to a much higher level or just make some serious personal changes in their lives..

Answer your question HK?

Mind you these are only thoughts. I don't know if the market would be interested yet. I don't think this place is place to do so though.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Jul 21, 2012 07:15AM)
There are stage hypnotists in other parts of the world that could benefit from what I could offer if not here in the UK. There are hypnotists in positions that could benefit greatly from what I have to offer should I offer it. And could use really use the processes to make a lot of money.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 21, 2012 07:23AM)
Many times I have wondered when is someone going to start using hypnosis to center themselves for sports? FINALLY someone is doing that. Oh wait I mean the opposite.

I see when it seems to be going well it is you, when they fall on their arse it was because they didn't listen to you? Nice.

It begs the question of evidence, but no need. It also begs the question with all the success you have and all the money rolling in from it why are you considering teaching it at all? Seriously as a business plan why saturate and ruin your own market? This is what will happen you know right?

That business model is silly. Just keep doing what you are doing and being successful. Why teach others or tip them to what you are doing and ruin the market? We have a pretty good example of what happens when that is done.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Jul 21, 2012 08:19AM)
Danny life is a journey I have had money rolling in. I will have it rolling in again. I hope!

You might be right about your comments on him falling on his arse. I am still a bit peeved off with how I was treated. So I am coming from a bad place on that matter. Falling on his arse at such a big event is part of his learning I am sure he will bounce back. But it has happened many times in the past where clients make an initial big leap then stop working with me and soon after crash. My theory is that's its all about unconscious set points and I have pushed them beyond their current setpoints. But they need more in order to make that new level part of who they are so they fall back.


I agree with you on tipping which is why I have resisted doing trainings up until now. But being first in with training can also make you a lot of money too. Its just an idea at this moment..and it would be expensive should I decide to.

Where I am just now is a long hard slog just trying to prove what I already know is possible which makes its even harder when you finally get chance to prove it then credit is stolen. They kept me out because they don't want other golfers to know the real reason why his golf has improved and the coach wants the credit to attract more golfers to his stable. But it is slowly dripping out into the circuit that I exist and what I do.

But its a drain getting there energy and money and emotionally. I would at some point also like to get out of the UK with this stuff as I believe it would be much better received elsewhere. Scottish mindset is really closed to anything new. It irkes me when I hear Scottish people boast about how many inventions came from the Scots. When just about everyone of those Scots had to leave Scotland in order to achieve it.
Message: Posted by: hypnokid (Jul 21, 2012 08:42AM)
So, MindPunisher, given everything you could teach, why aren't you currently successful? What piece of advice would you give to yourself?

HK
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Jul 21, 2012 09:09AM)
Keep going be one step ahead and look after number one. that's why I now video every client at exit point when they are still grateful gushing over me. Dated recorded for proof. It was also be in future contracts.

I already have a PR company workng on this one for me. We sent out a press release last week to every newspaper and golf magazine in the country. I have also contacted my limited contacts in the golf world.

I am already taking my advice same as I give my clients think bigger and play bigger. This latest success with proof on youtube is another step on the ladder. Plus my fees have also gone up for next one plus contracts will be involved. A lot of golfers have taken note of his sudden success so I will do everything to get it out. I even got him saying that was ok on the video.

You have to be as selfish t hey are.

I could also sell out and go down the training route. There is also the factor just now that what I do is deemed a luxury not a necessaty because of the recession. And most businesses do not have a training budget these days. Many pro sports people don't have a sponser. This is a tough time for a lot of people. So you also have to work with whatever path is open to you.

It always amazes me how top speakers and trainers can fill rooms with delegates $15000 or more.

Get a good mentor would be the right move but finding the right one is not easy and won't be cheap.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 21, 2012 09:55AM)
I like the model. When they succede it is because of you and your work. When they fail it is on them.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Jul 21, 2012 09:59AM)
I find this very interesting, but it has little to do with entertainment, which brings me to my question. I understand you are a professional hypnotist, and that means you are skilled to use hypnosis in a variety of applications - entertainment, hypnotherapy, training, product releases, niche markets, etc. My question to you, is do you consider yourself a "hypnotist" first or an "entertainer" first? Would you be going down this personal help path if your entertainment options were more readily available, or is hypnosis all-encompassing enough for you to be fulfilled with your current path?

I only ask this as I too over the years have considered operating my own practice, hypnosis educational and training products, and have also dabbled in the professional sports world (although unintended, and not of my own efforts), and I always seem to come back to the very clear position of - I am an entertainer, a stage hypnotist (among other things) and that I really have no desire whatsoever to do anything else hypnosis-related, other than to perform live. TV no longer interests me (been there, done that), training and education is of no interest (although I do mentoring, coaching and consulting one-on-one, but it is all hands-on as part of my live performance schedule), I have no interest in research or discovering new methods and techniques, no interest in creating a new trend or adaptation of classic performance hypnosis to appeal to the kids, or anything else other than stage performances.

So is this simply due to necessity, survival and lack of entertainment opportunity in your area, or by preference? Just curious.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 22, 2012 08:48AM)
Incidently I think you make a mistake going for pros. Tough to access. If you have testimonials the market is bigger for the duffers. Guys who want to be pros, guys who buy all that equipment and such. That market is worldwide and huge and propagated with people who can afford it.

Just sayin.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Jul 22, 2012 01:43PM)
[quote]
On 2012-07-21 10:55, Dannydoyle wrote:
I like the model. When they succede it is because of you and your work. When they fail it is on them.
[/quote]

If they fail when I am working with them then I have to take part of the blame and admit I can't help them. If they have a dramatic turn around right after I work with them and we both know why that is then I take some of the credit. If they stop working with me and crash then it is pretty clear they have gone back to their old ways or haven't been able to deal with the increased success. Golf at the top is 100% mental its not about techniques. Its about holding it together and playing in the zone. That is the only thing that distinguishes the very top players from the average because at that level they all know how to play golf.

If you knew and understood more about the mental side of golf you would realize that these guys need a continuing programme. As do business clients. But they often become over confident when they get results fast and believe they don't need you. and don't understand you've just scratched the surface and believe they know everything and then they crash. Its a very common pattern. I don't take credit for their talent and hard work but I do take some credit from enabling them to access more of it when it matters most.

If a golfer loses form its because they are no longer in the performance zone or level of arousal. My job is to keep him there. And they need that help on a continual basis.

Itys not really a mistake aiming for top pros back in the 90s when I worked a tour golfer he told me that some mind coaches charge $18 000 a day. Its worth aiming for I think. I know my approach is as good as anybody at the top. Its just getting in. Having said that it will be a lot easier marketing to amatuers and duffers when you are associated at that level which is part of the reason of going there. Ots also part of my mental make up I can;'t help it its how I am made. caused me a lot of grief in the past but there you go.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Jul 22, 2012 02:07PM)
Mindpro

I always been able to entertain people without any hypnosis in real life away from doing it as a job. I can hold a room or be in a bar and keep people laughing all night with no material just socially.

If I could get back into doing profitable shows I would definitely go back to doing it. Especially the larger shows. I tend to be a creative person and one of the biggest things that drives me is seeing possibilities and how far I can go with things. I see myself as a hypnotist first which is not an adequate term. I hate being called a hypnotherapist because I do a lot more than hypnotherapy with hypnosis but its the only word I can use.

I do love performance enhancement and getting people performing at their best and working out the solution in order to get them there. I don't have the luxury of being able to settle into one or the other at this present time. I think though If I could do a bit of everything I probably would. I am not fulfilled at the moment if anything frustrated with where I am both personally and geographically I think. Sometimes I want to walk away from hypnosis all together but always stick with it.

I have been doing my own stuff for many years but keeping it to myself. But now maybe its time to share some of my takes on hypnosis.

I think necessity comes into it I am driven down certain roads in order to try and find a new lucrative market that hasn't been hammered or affected with all the stuff that's been going on.

Part of the reason for tackling golf was I know its hard to get in so if I am successful it won't be easy for others to follow. But I am still quite a long way from having that happen I think!
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 22, 2012 02:14PM)
You have no IDEA what I do and don't know about top golfers. I do know we host and I play in at least 3 pro am
tournaments a year. Every round I am with a whole bunch of pros. But why let a fact get in the way of an arrogant pronouncement?

If you understood ANYTHING about golf it would be that the mental aspect of it can't be separated from technique. Tiger spent months with his swing coach. There is a huge difference in technique as you age.

Funny how your name never seems to come up. Incidently the idea of hypnosis for golf and sports is hardly new. Michael Jordan used to refer to it as "getting in the zone" in basketball. Another friend of mine worked with the 1985 Chicago Bears. Golfers have used hypnosis for decades. It isn't a revolutionary idea by any means. Summit Dynamics has programs for it.

It is not new ground. Not by a long shot. All competitors look for an edge.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Jul 22, 2012 03:09PM)
Danny why the insults? I said if you knew anything about the mental side if you do great but I have a feeling you don't. There really is no correaltion between the perfect swing and high level golf that is fact. The history books bare that out. The tours are full of top pros that have really bad swings but keep winning tournaments. Likewise the tour is full of past champions who tried to make their swings better then lost their form never to get it back as they run from sw8ing coach to swing coach to try and get their old swing back.

Hypnosis may not be new but there is no one in my country known for it in golf and sport in general. And hypnosis is just a tool its what you do with it that counts. There is a gap in the market partially because of the closed mindedness of our culture. And also because of the stuffy golf traditions over here. You sound like you are a good golfer but you would be surprised as to the number of pro golfers over here I have met who don't know about hypnosis in golf. Top golf journalist Ive met who could tell you names of all of Tiger's coaches but never knew about Jay Brunza the hypnotist he has worked with since 16 year old.

So again your insults are not showing you up in a good light if anything they seem to be a good example of projection if you ask me. No one has attacked or offended you. I was also effectively banned last year by the PGA when one of their directors wanted to give me a contract to work with 10 golfers and make my programme part of the degree. At last minute he was told he would have to leave his job if he wanted to work with me so he did. They haven't found a way to make big money out of hypnosis so they want to keep it out because they make their money out if selling over long degrees and producing swing coaches that are basically salesmen that make big money for the industry selling the latest technology despite the fact the average handicap or professional score han't changed in 30 or more years and from a time when clubs were made of hickory.

Why would you have heard of me? Im in Scotland and most of Scotland still hasn't heard of me. Ive made it clear on numerous posts that I am still breaking in. Don't you read these posts? I said in my previous post I am still a long way from getting where I want to.

Why all the bile? Wouldn't it be more productive contributing something rather than being emotionally reactive? No one is attacking you or trying to make you look small.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Jul 22, 2012 03:15PM)
And by the way in order to play golf at highest level the technique MUST be separated from the mental aspect. One of the biggest down falls of all golfers is that they become bogged down with technique. Their minds are full of focusing on getting the technique right. Its when they forget all about technique and just focus on getting the ball into the hole the unconscious does what it needs to do in order to get there.

And why do you think Ive been ****ed off this week? I should've been at the Open with my client but was cut out and kept a secret instead. Someone who has had a huge turnaround in just a few short weeks after being on my programme. But I was smart enough to get it on video on the last session because I knew this was likely to happen.

And let me ask you this Danny if perfect swing was so important why is it that no two coaches will give you the same advice on what you should be doing with your swing?

I don't claim to be an expert in golf. My specialty lies in performance enhancement that's where I excel.

(waits for next post full of empty insults and no contribution)
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 22, 2012 04:17PM)
You make arrogant pronouncements and get angry when you get push back. Too bad. Don't make arrogant assumptions about what others may or may not know. You made this bed by years of lashing out at others. Not my fault.
Any coach worth his salt will tell you fundamentals matter. Basics. You act as if just your program is all any duffer needs to play like the pros. That is a fallacy. Sorry to tell you.

I am not insulting you, just clearing up your glaring misconceptions. Your alledged client did pretty bad today.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Jul 22, 2012 04:39PM)
Whos angery what are you pushing back on? I really don't see anything.

Yes my client did do bad but so did a lot of other top players. And as I pointed out I wasn't there and I haven't been with him since end of May. So although he was my client he wasn't working with me.

Even though what I do know for sure is that he was well out of his performance zone. In other words his level of arousal was to high to access his best shots. That can be because of being anxious or sometimes even being too pleased about having achieved something. I don't know for sure but my guess is he is loving the new media attention and compliments he is getting and that has knocked him out of his zone. Also he had high expectations poured on him from the press and even had Tiger woods old Caddoe compliment him and put a bet on him. Only a few short weeks ago the media was full of hate for him. . But these are just guesses. I haven't spoken to him since end of May.

I will call hi find out what happened and find out why I was cut out tomorrow.
Message: Posted by: bobser (Jul 24, 2012 05:40PM)
What's the date today????
Message: Posted by: MichalMystic (Sep 10, 2012 09:42PM)
OK I find this started out as Street Hypnosis getting kick,to the pod cast getting kicked, then it switching from who right and wrong, to training golf player and going on and on about how successful someone's career is.

So I'll start like this, I don't claim to be a expert in hypnosis, but do feel I've been trained very well as a stage hypnosis and hypnotherapist by who I consider are both great men in there field.

Now I'll start with what everyone here has seem to label as street hypnosis and watered down hypnosis. OK first I why does it have to be insulted and have to be some lower form of hypnosis.
As long as I can remember Hypnotherapist, Doctors, Government have called down Stage hypnosis in the same way, saying it was because they were not trained well or that style is a joke, until very recent years as Hypnotherapy and Hypnosis becomes more and more popular and excepted.

Did that mean Stage Hypnosis was any less valid or was it cause training got better, more understanding of hypnosis by those that practiced and by the general public.

Saying Street Hypnosis is gorilla and attacking people can be said about any style of busking..which to me I see as the wrong view. This another style of entertainment and when a trained entertainer is doing it, it can be one of the most enjoyable things ever to see. When done wrong it horrible.... does that mean it makes...hypnosis, music,magic any less value and there killing the art...sorry but no.

There so many bad Stage hypnosis out there so called killing our art it not even close to busking style which by the way isn't anything new....check your history how performing hypnosis started......
The only thing now is its a trend in our art/practice. Just like Stage Hypnosis was nd is becoming more and more with hypnotherapist switching over to stage.

In the end it the same it hasn't change in our history......garauntee in the next 5 or so years you see more and more of the busking style and it becoming more and more excepted.

So instead of being the same as the one that may have put you down cause you did stage hypnosis and not hypnotherapy or vice versa, why not help and help the style become more then what it is. This is the only way we have better trained people on the street entertaining people and giving the public a better image of hypnosis also.

Now hypnosis being used in sport, police units for enhancements has been used for longer then a lot of us have been around, the only difference now is the medical industry has excepted these method more and more along with the public.

Now about the pod cast itself....I'm sorry but this sounded like a rant a very bias. I myself do what you all seem to think is jump on someone, attack them and try to hypnotize them.

I'm sorry but that's not what I do. I carry myself with confidence, class and style and always entertain. I also always do what I call my mini pre-talk, which of course let them know that I'm going to demonstrate some hypnosis and were all going to have fun and I not what they may have seen I don't do XXX rated stuff. I want the person to be the star of a mini little show and not to be made fun of.

Now I also want to take this style to a pub style, night club walk around. Does this all mean I don't take what we do seriously or strive to become better and better. No I'm always asking for solid material, I've gotten myself train by those that respect and are very well verse for many many years in all styles of hypnosis. I'm always trying to better my stage act and busking style act.

I hate to use the term hating on but I'd like to see a lot less hatting on and a lot more this what we can do to make this style better in all aspects.

I was hoping when I came to this section it be a lot more professional and a lot less name calling and childish then then most of the magic sections here...but from the many many threads and post I've read here it doesn't seem to be any different....which for all of us is a shame.
Message: Posted by: bobser (Sep 11, 2012 11:30AM)
Stinky-pinky! stinky-pinky!
Message: Posted by: Brett Sirrell Magician (Nov 27, 2012 06:41AM)
Cant agree more with everything Reg states in this podcast.
If you want to go out on the streets then have a purpose. If that purpose is to get your ego up and hypno-mug someone then you need to rethink you ethics.
If you want to do street hypnosis set up a performing area and do a proper show and put a hat down like every other street performer. (unless its a paid gig tho!)
Message: Posted by: bobser (Nov 27, 2012 02:39PM)
Wow, can't believe I call you all 'stinky pinkys' and you all sulk for nearly 3 months. Sheesh!!!
Message: Posted by: catweazle (Nov 27, 2012 03:51PM)
You are a true entertainer sir - and one of the reasons I love reading this threads!
Message: Posted by: quicknotist (Nov 28, 2012 04:10AM)
Thanks Brett,
It's good to know some people get it.
Reg

[quote]
On 2012-11-27 07:41, Brett Sirrell Magician wrote:
Cant agree more with everything Reg states in this podcast.
If you want to go out on the streets then have a purpose. If that purpose is to get your ego up and hypno-mug someone then you need to rethink you ethics.
If you want to do street hypnosis set up a performing area and do a proper show and put a hat down like every other street performer. (unless its a paid gig tho!)
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: bobser (Nov 29, 2012 06:41PM)
Thankyou Catweazle. If you are who I think you are (blonde female with implants, divorced mid 20 yr old who just doesn't care anymore)please pm me?
Message: Posted by: 1031ent (Mar 6, 2021 04:01PM)
5 pages of fighting and ****ing matches with zero useful information. This is typical of many threads on the Café. It's also similar to why I avoid socializing with magicians, seems most have self esteem issues.
Message: Posted by: 1031ent (Mar 6, 2021 04:04PM)
Oh and BTW if paid shows are a problem then start renting out venues and market the shows yourself.
Message: Posted by: steadyeddy2000 (Mar 16, 2021 04:12AM)
So be it.