| (Close Window) |
| Topic: Val Valentino (The Masked Magician) answers questions on Reddit |
|
||
| http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/zse2g/i_am_val_valentino_the_masked_magician_ama/ |
|
||
|
He really really doesn't know the damage he's done! And look at the fans...I give up. Doug |
|
||
| Doug, he should do a "Chef special/entree of the month" here on the Café. I bet the questions/reactions would be much different than those from the muggles. |
|
||
| He did one on Kevin James' old forum in the early 2000s. |
|
||
| Valentino is DIRT. |
|
||
|
Allow me to ask a question: granted, we may all agree that what Valentino did was pretty lame, but has anyone's business, or love of magic [b]directly[/b] suffered from what he did? Have any of us lost a booking because the prospect said, "I saw the Masked Magician...I don't want you here?" I didn't think so. Magic has survived quite a bit over the years. It's surviving Valentino as well. You may carry on. |
|
||
|
[quote] On 2012-09-16 16:08, Steve Friedberg wrote: Allow me to ask a question: granted, we may all agree that what Valentino did was pretty lame, but has anyone's business, or [b]love of magic directly[/b] suffered from what he did? Have any of us lost a booking because the prospect said, "I saw the Masked Magician...I don't want you here?" [/quote] I suffered directly! #1. I was laughed out of the Lani Kai in Ft Myers Beach Florida a few years ago, because of that *******! He exposed Prohibition by Charlie Justice, and a spectator explained it to a half a dozen people! I was never invited back. #2. I did a small performance just a short time ago here in Augusta at a friend's house that has a Big Screen monitor hooked to the internet. I did the color changing silk using my P@lm0 Ball. Someone googled it on their cell phone (YouTube), and told my friend's roommate. He turned on the big screen and went to YouTube...yep, the Masked Moron shows how to use the Dye Tube!!! My friend said I need to find another hobby! :mad: I'm no pro, and don't perform that often. I SURE don't like to be embarrassed like that. Yeah, I'm an old guy, 56, and sometimes it just ain't worth it. I get over it though, eventually. I have now changed my whole act. No more mainstream tricks. I'm beginning to see Mentalism has not been attacked yet by the Masked ****** ******. I imagine it's just a matter of time. You're right about needing to press on. Not worry about it. It is a very touchy subject for me. Right now I could say what I think about Valentino, and I GUARANTEE I'd get banned from the Café! Doug |
|
||
|
[quote] On 2012-09-16 16:08, Steve Friedberg wrote: Allow me to ask a question: granted, we may all agree that what Valentino did was pretty lame, but has anyone's business, or love of magic [b]directly[/b] suffered from what he did? Have any of us lost a booking because the prospect said, "I saw the Masked Magician...I don't want you here?" I didn't think so. Magic has survived quite a bit over the years. It's surviving Valentino as well. You may carry on. [/quote] You are 100% wrong on this one ... I lost several gigs. |
|
||
|
As long as the Masked traitor is on TouTube, we ALL suffer. Cannot do a THING about it, though. We press on... Doug |
|
||
|
[quote] On 2012-09-16 21:23, Dougini wrote: [quote] I have now changed my whole act. No more mainstream tricks. [/quote] See, all he really wanted was to get magicians to think about magic in new and original ways... Yeah, right! |
|
||
| Out of curiosity -- because I know nearly nothing about Valentino other than his career as the Masked Magician -- has he himself stepped up to the plate with anything new and original? |
|
||
|
[quote] On 2012-09-18 12:14, Magicbarry wrote: Out of curiosity -- because I know nearly nothing about Valentino other than his career as the Masked Magician -- has he himself stepped up to the plate with anything new and original? [/quote] The network television show that exposed magic was a new and original idea, I guess... :P |
|
||
| Magicbarry,people like him do exposures because they do not have 2 original brain cells to rub together! |
|
||
|
It's not as simple as that. Bruce Nash is the culprit. He and his cronies...no. I 'd better not start on that. I'll start using foul language. Being in the broadcasting industry for nearly forty years has given me...let's say "insights". Val just took the money and went with it. So did Mitch. Merely employees doing their jobs. Doesn't make it right though. Doug |
|
||
|
[quote] On 2012-09-18 12:14, Magicbarry wrote: Out of curiosity -- because I know nearly nothing about Valentino other than his career as the Masked Magician -- has he himself stepped up to the plate with anything new and original? [/quote] Brilliant thinking ..It is pretty Transparent what he's done .. But why no real outcry? And others still smootch his southernmost parts....???? |
|
||
|
What really motivates someone like Val Valentino? When I read Dougini's post, it seems like there's something uglier than just ego/fame at the bottom. It seems to be a real hatred of magic and magicians! We all have run across spectators who really don't like magic, even as entertainment. ie they just DON'T like magic; and in this case, the man is actually a magician! If it was a skeptic who wanted to expose eg a mentalist who was taking advantage of someone's memories of a dead relative; that might be different. Penn and Teller do a clear cup and balls ...and you realize this is not at all the same thing that Val Valentino does. Does magic suffer overall? Maybe not, since its always evolving. However, as noted in Dougini's post, individual magicians may definitely suffer. It's much worse than even heckling (which some of us can handle). Lynn |
|
||
|
[quote] On 2012-09-19 16:00, lynnef wrote: What really motivates someone like Val Valentino? When I read Dougini's post, it seems like there's something uglier than just ego/fame at the bottom. [/quote] It's just money, Lynn. Bruce Nash made an offer neither he nor Mitch could refuse. Val may have been struggling, and Nash put him in the spotlight. It was actually a whole team under Nash that started the whole .damn disgrace. Doug |
|
||
|
In answer to one of the earlier posts, my business did not suffer as a result of the masked magician. In fact I noticed a definite increase in the number of adult gigs I got. There was a definite spike, because people became more interested in magic for a while. A lot of good pros (as opposed to hacks) would say the same. He did us no commercial damage. |
|
||
|
[quote] On 2012-09-20 20:11, TonyB2009 wrote: ...my business did not suffer as a result of the masked magician. In fact I noticed a definite increase in the number of adult gigs I got. There was a definite spike...A lot of good pros (as opposed to hacks) would say the same. He did us no commercial damage. [/quote] I guess that's what matters most. Seriously. I'm glad at least for that much. A hack like me, though...yikes. It can be tough... :rolleyes: Doug |
|
||
| Doug, sorry. That came out wrong. I did not mean to imply that you are a hack. Just saying that those of us whose living depended upon magic found ways of making it not matter. And it did result in more bookings over here in Ireland and the UK. |
|
||
|
No, no Tony! I'm calling [i]myself[/i] a hack. Ha haa! I'd never perform for TV! You guys'd probably ban me from the Café! LOL! Making a living from magic must be tough. I have struggled with more than one sleight, or method. Audiences can be brutal! I call myself a "hack" after watching a video I made, practicing the Cups & Balls. I flashed every load, and my sleight of hand is...atrocious! So, I tend to kick myself. Good thing I have not performed this for people. What I am really glad to hear, is it has not hurt your business one bit. I am just discouraged at my own luck with this Valentino debacle. Doug |
|
||
| The big problem is he made exposing magic a part of the business and changed the paradigm from keeping the secret to "I know how it's done and I'll show everyone to gain notoriety." He's made that behavior acceptable when it never was before. Inventors felt okay selling their magic to other magicians because they believed they would never expose it to the public. Now you never know when the secret of your invention will be instantly revealed to non-magicians and Valentino made that a business model. |
|
||
|
[quote] On 2012-09-24 01:55, Steve Burton wrote: The big problem is he made exposing magic a part of the business and changed the paradigm from keeping the secret to "I know how it's done and I'll show everyone to gain notoriety." [/quote] No he didn't. Exposure has always been a part of magic. Magic sets, tricks on the back of cereal boxes, in christmas crackers, etc. All he did was do it on television. |
|
||
| So, they teach the jam cube on cereal boxes? Or how to do the russian roulette nail trick in christmas crackers? Interesting.... |
|
||
|
[quote] On 2012-09-24 16:48, Matthew W wrote: So, they teach the jam cube on cereal boxes? Or how to do the russian roulette nail trick in christmas crackers? Interesting.... [/quote] If they did it wouldn't have any more effect on magic as a whole than when they detailed the sawing in half and other major illusions on cigarette packs. DD |
|
||
|
Matt, I never heard of the Jam Cube illusion. The first youtube clip I saw of it, and the method was painfully obvious. You don't need the masked magician - or a christmas cracker - if you want to know how that is done. The masked magician did nothing different than what was done for centuries before. He just did it on television. That's all I am saying. He changed nothing, damaged nothing. Magic is the same as it always was. |
|
||
|
[quote] On 2012-09-25 05:57, TonyB2009 wrote: Matt, I never heard of the Jam Cube illusion. The first youtube clip I saw of it, and the method was painfully obvious. You don't need the masked magician - or a christmas cracker - if you want to know how that is done. The masked magician did nothing different than what was done for centuries before. He just did it on television. That's all I am saying. He changed nothing, damaged nothing. Magic is the same as it always was. [/quote] That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard! You have no verifiable way to judge the damage done to Magic. Perhaps without Valentino's constant exposures Magic would be as popular in the states as it is in Japan or other countries! Please tell me of all the remarkable stage illusions that have been invented because of Valentino's betrayal? Certainly Valentino himself has added NOTHING to take the place of what he destroyed! He wore a mask because it was SHAMEFUL!!! That simple! |
|
||
|
[quote] On 2012-09-27 01:49, Slim King wrote: You have no verifiable way to judge the damage done to Magic. [/quote] Neither do you. Yet it doesn't stop you spouting rubbish on a regular basis. Anyway, I thought you were in favour of exposure, as long as someone pays enough for it. Or have you changed your position again? |
|
||
|
[quote] On 2012-09-27 17:17, TonyB2009 wrote: [quote] On 2012-09-27 01:49, Slim King wrote: You have no verifiable way to judge the damage done to Magic. [/quote] Neither do you. Yet it doesn't stop you spouting rubbish on a regular basis. Anyway, I thought you were in favour of exposure, as long as someone pays enough for it. Or have you changed your position again? [/quote] Now that's the second stupidest thing I've ever heard. :lol: Tony .. Your Hero wears a mask because he is Shameful and you bear the shame when you support exposure to the masses for free!!!! |
|
||
| What evidence do you have that I support exposure for free, as opposed to your hyper-ethical stance that it is all right as long as you are paying for it? Your way strikes me as a bit mercenary, to be honest. |
|
||
|
"Perhaps without Valentino's constant exposures Magic would be as popular in the states as it is in Japan or other countries! " Fortunately Japan had no access to Fox television, and no one in Japan can access any of the copious Masked Magician clips available on YouTube. Either that, or other things determine how popular magic is, in addition to the relatively slight influence of this long-canceled TV show. There are dozens of Zarrow Shuffle "tutorials" on YouTube and elsewhere - yet close-up card magic somehow endures, false shuffles and all. Overheated rants about the supposed devastation done to magic makes magic look far worse than this TV show - forgotten by all but a few victimized zealots - ever did. Do better magic. |
|
||
| I took a look at the AMA thread of his on Reddit. It had only 254 comments. On Reddit, a cute picture of a cat will get more attention than that _every single day_. |
|
||
|
Q. Valentino, after what you did to magic and magicians...how do you sleep at night? A. On a giant pile of money with many naked ladies. |
|
||
|
[quote] On 2012-09-28 13:15, R.E. Byrnes wrote: "Perhaps without Valentino's constant exposures Magic would be as popular in the states as it is in Japan or other countries! " Fortunately Japan had no access to Fox television, and no one in Japan can access any of the copious Masked Magician clips available on YouTube. Either that, or other things determine how popular magic is, in addition to the relatively slight influence of this long-canceled TV show. There are dozens of Zarrow Shuffle "tutorials" on YouTube and elsewhere - yet close-up card magic somehow endures, false shuffles and all. [/quote]There's a difference - to find the tutorials, you do need to already know what to look for. I.e. you need to know enough already to be familiar with terms like Zarrow Shuffle, the Pass, etc. Not the same thing as "Secrets of Magic Exposed". A lot of the core secrets have been available in books for the best part of a century (or more) - but it didn't harm the profession, because the exposure was self-limiting - you had to be sufficiently interested to buy a book (or get it from a library, as I did when I was a teenager). Nowadays anyone (at least anyone obnoxious enough) who sees a trick can google it on their smart-phone in real time, and humiliate the magician during their performance - as Doug attested. It doesn't mean magic is going to die, but it does mean that people will get hurt. For one thing, it's particularly going to hurt those who make a living selling magic, because some greedy sellout like Valentino can buy their product for $20, $50, or a few hundred dollars, then make a profit (or just feed their ego) by exposing it. Which means that nobody else need buy it at all, if the secret is all in the method. And even if it involves apparatus, once the secret's exposed, the potential market for sales is drastically reduced - why pay for an effect that won't impress many people, since a significant part of any potential audience may already know how it's done? And this is apart from the damage to many ordinary bread-and-butter performers who lack the time or ability to invent new and original effects faster than they can be exposed. To glibly dismiss their predicament by telling them to get more original sounds callous and elitist, if you'll forgive my saying so. Thus to claim that no harm is done, seems short-sighted or naive. |
|
||
|
I was under the impression The Masked Magician was quite popular in Japan and has appeared on television there frequently. As for the mask, as it's never been much of a secret who he is, I thought he wore it because he's ashamed he's such a $#@!ing bad magician. I've only watched a couple of episodes of his show over the years to see what it was like, and I can't remember anything he did, only how badly he did it. |
|
||
|
[quote] On 2012-10-26 11:04, Destiny wrote: ...As for the mask, as it's never been much of a secret who he is, I thought he wore it because he's ashamed he's such a $#@!ing bad magician. [/quote] Bingo! :) Doug |
|
||
|
"To glibly dismiss their predicament by telling them to get more original sounds callous and elitist, if you'll forgive my saying so." Magic could stand a major dose of elitism. It's inconceivable that someone playing in a major orchestra or publishing literature or curating paintings for a museum would lament "elitism" in the field. Of course if magic wants to continue to occupy the place right between juggling and mime in the performing arts hierarchy, that's different. If not: Again, get more original, toss out those wedge-base illusions, and stop complaining about a long-forgotten, middling TV show. |
|
||
| Problem is, once we forget about it, the Aholes at Fox could bring it back worse and more vicious than ever. It's always the sword of Domocles hanging over our head. Pabdora's box has been opened, and it's naive to assume it's empty now. IMHO. |
|
||
| Do they still air Masked Magician stuff? I haven't seen it in years. Then again, I don't watch a ton of TV. I saw it back in the 90s but thought it was long gone. |
|
||
| Don't know if they still air them, but the problem is they have that option at their disposal any time they jolly well please at their slightest whim. |
|
||
|
[quote] On 2012-12-01 22:34, Cameron Francis wrote: Do they still air Masked Magician stuff? I haven't seen it in years. Then again, I don't watch a ton of TV. [/quote] It's on YouTube Cameron. Every stinking episode! Yeah, I don't do TV either. I watch what I want on Hulu. :) Doug |
|
||
|
Don't know what it's like Stateside but in the UK magic has never been more popular. Although this can't be solely attributed to Val (probably more Harry Potter), the programme certainly got people talking about magic. That can't be bad. I think you were very unlucky with your experience Doug. Don't throw good tricks away because of one idiot. Get better at it or change the method. There's no way that all Americans saw the show & I'd bet that hardly anyone would remember the details anyway. |
|
||
|
[quote] On 2012-12-12 08:39, Russell Davidson wrote: ...I think you were very unlucky with your experience Doug. Don't throw good tricks away because of one idiot. Get better at it or change the method. [/quote] Good advice Russell! :) I just avoid doing mainstream stuff now. [quote] There's no way that all Americans saw the show & I'd bet that hardly anyone would remember the details anyway. [/quote] You're right about that. The perception is far greater than the reality. Still, it upsets me when I see this type of thing happen. The show is on YouTube now, so anyone, anywhere can watch it. I really didn't care much about what the MM was exposing, until he exposed Charlie Justice's Prohibition! Then, he exposed the Dye Tube! Now, two of my favorites have to be retired for a while! Maybe I'm over-reacting. This is just a hobby, anyway. I've been taking it too seriously... :rolleyes: Doug |
|
||
|
Is Val a tool? Yes he is! Here's the thing tho...he got a lot of folks interested in magic who may not have ever found our art form. I know of 5+ folks who were laymen, saw the show, and are now "weekend warriors" performing for both family and corporate clients and it's all due to Val's special. In the big scheme of life, this is just so not important. Has anyone on here heard about what happened in Ct.? THAT is something to be all up in arms about...not this! Just sayin'... |
|
||
|
[quote] On 2012-09-28 13:15, R.E. Byrnes wrote: Do better magic. [/quote] So let me make sure I understand this. I don't do a zig zag in my show, but it's a good trick. A REALLY good trick that has stood the test of time. According to your line of thinking, one should be fine with eliminating the zig zag from their show in favor of "better" magic? Others here have said "Change the method..."- well, that doesn't work in our favor. If I were to invent a scientific marvel of a zig zag that really could divide the girl into three pieces, the audience would still walk away thinking they knew how it was done because "...that guy on TV revealed that one". It wouldn't matter if my routine included convincers such as showing that the girl was really cut- audiences simply don't think very far into it (for the most part) and they would still walk away thinking they knew the secret, thus minimizing the overall impact of your show. Bottom line- the exposure is out there and is available for anyone with a cell phone to investigate. The good news is that most people won't bother- but for those who do, not good. Valentino is just plain wrong. |
|
||
|
[quote] On 2012-12-16 14:14, Christopher Lyle wrote: ...In the big scheme of life, this is just so not important. Has anyone on here heard about what happened in Ct.? THAT is something to be all up in arms about...not this! [/quote] Christopher, you are 100% spot on. I don't have kids. Never been married. But I do have nieces and nephews. So, yeah...you're right. I've avoided the news. Every time I get sucked into some story like this, it makes me cry, I can't sleep, have nightmares, etc. I can't get away from it. The Monster's face is everywhere! In the checkout line, there he was on the front page of Enquirer...my whole day was sidetracked. Can't get far enough away! I am a single guy who spends a LOT of time in solitude. Up here in Maine, we seem to be isolated from all this. I have opinions. They are not popular. However, who cares what I think about all this? I'm just one small fish. In the big picture, Val is part of the big problem. We want it all, NOW. We live in a "politically correct" society, that is as hypocritical as it is decadent. It really isn't Val's fault. It's Bruce Nash. Ya want blood? Go after him! Google him. Follow the money trail. Bruce made many offers before Val stepped up and said he'd do it. It's all about money. And the pursuit of money is the real culprit, not "exposure" or what we consider ethics. And, like drugs, there is a market. If there wasn't those shows would never have been done. Apparently people like it. So, there we are. Who's at fault? People who put money ahead of all else. If it hadn't been Valentino, it would have been someone else in the mask. Guaranteed. Doug |
|
||
|
[quote] On 2012-12-01 22:34, Cameron Francis wrote: Do they still air Masked Magician stuff? I haven't seen it in years. Then again, I don't watch a ton of TV. I saw it back in the 90s but thought it was long gone. [/quote] Yes, it aired in the NYC metro area. I watched it a few weeks ago. It was on one of the cable channels. |
|
||
|
Not to bring back unpleasant topics, but I want to say that as a non-magician for most of my life so far, watching whatsisname 'expose the tricks' was fascinating. The show, however in NO WAY compromised my enjoyment of, say, Penn and Teller's Flag, which I consider myself lucky to have seen in person in a very conservative town. Fine art is just ART, and there's no way that knowing how it's done ruins it because you can hand me the same paint and brushes Da Vinci himself used for the Mona Lisa, and I'll end up with cow crap on a stick. Some are just more talented than others in everything in life, not just magic. I'm one of those people who yearn to know - not because I think I'm good enough to perform it, or tell everyone else to ruin it for the performer or audience - but because my mind can't rest until I find or figure things out sometimes. And, as for thinking whatsisname was a 'great magician' his performance (even masked) wasn't in the same universe as some of y'all. Just sayin' what I think. The first trick I ever tried to perform was Greed by Daniel Garcia - I got my stuff ready, and practiced in front of a mirror and all that. And guess what - I still suck! I'd never call myself a magician, or ever even consider trying to do it in front of people. But, even knowing the work behind it, that little trick is still really cool to watch, to me. Anyway, those are my thoughts. They come from a different place than y'all's because I'm a spectator, for the most part. I hope you can appreciate my point of view. -H |
|
||
|
[quote] On 2013-02-19 22:48, HeatherV wrote: Not to bring back unpleasant topics, but I want to say that as a non-magician for most of my life so far, watching whatsisname 'expose the tricks' was fascinating. The show, however in NO WAY compromised my enjoyment of, say, Penn and Teller's Flag, which I consider myself lucky to have seen in person in a very conservative town. Fine art is just ART, and there's no way that knowing how it's done ruins it because you can hand me the same paint and brushes Da Vinci himself used for the Mona Lisa, and I'll end up with cow crap on a stick. Some are just more talented than others in everything in life, not just magic. I'm one of those people who yearn to know - not because I think I'm good enough to perform it, or tell everyone else to ruin it for the performer or audience - but because my mind can't rest until I find or figure things out sometimes. And, as for thinking whatsisname was a 'great magician' his performance (even masked) wasn't in the same universe as some of y'all. Just sayin' what I think. The first trick I ever tried to perform was Greed by Daniel Garcia - I got my stuff ready, and practiced in front of a mirror and all that. And guess what - I still suck! I'd never call myself a magician, or ever even consider trying to do it in front of people. But, even knowing the work behind it, that little trick is still really cool to watch, to me. Anyway, those are my thoughts. They come from a different place than y'all's because I'm a spectator, for the most part. I hope you can appreciate my point of view. -H [/quote] I smell something...... |
|
||
|
"So let me make sure I understand this. I don't do a zig zag in my show, but it's a good trick. A REALLY good trick that has stood the test of time. According to your line of thinking, one should be fine with eliminating the zig zag from their show in favor of "better" magic?" yes |
|
||
|
So he was the first to expose magic to the public? And people call him unoriginal because he exposes tricks they buy and now can't use? |
|
||
|
[quote] On 2013-02-22 21:49, Dannydoyle wrote: So he was the first to expose magic to the public? [/quote] lol. Of course, Magicians were the first. The true enemy is always inside the camp. |
|
||
|
[quote] On 2012-09-16 16:08, Steve Friedberg wrote: Allow me to ask a question: granted, we may all agree that what Valentino did was pretty lame, but has anyone's business, or love of magic [b]directly[/b] suffered from what he did? Have any of us lost a booking because the prospect said, "I saw the Masked Magician...I don't want you here?" [/quote] I know of a few incidents. Really. |
|
||
|
One thing the Masked Magician has taught me is to not rely on the magic tricks to entertain people. The art of magic is about presentation. I have performed tricks for people who knew how it was done, but didn't care because they enjoyed the presentation. I made them laugh, and entertained them. At the end of the day, that's all that matters to me. I get kids telling me all the time they know how the coloring book works, but they also tell me it's one of their favorite tricks...go figure! I perform the linking rings even though most people know about the key ring, yet I don't get booed when performing my presentation of it. In fact, I get laughs and applauses. When I use my puppet, everyone knows it isn't real, most know I am making the puppet talk and move, but they don't care because they are enjoying the presentation. I can't say if I ever lost work because of him because how would I know that? Yesterday I didn't get any calls, how do I know why I didn't, no less blame it on just one guy who happened to expose magic on t.v. So do many other magicians who don't wear masks. Penn and Teller for example. They expose tricks, but they are entertaining to watch. They make a good living off of entertaining people. I don't agree with pointless exposure of magic tricks, but I am all for entertaining people. That's where the Masked Magician fails at. He's not entertaining to watch. People don't watch him to be entertained, they watch him because they want to know how tricks are done. These are the kind of people I don't want at my shows anyways. |
|
||
|
Guys... Guys... check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8tQgHiMGGU This basically summarizes the "masked magician". I love this clip!! |
|
||
| Wow, that must of been extremely awkward. I cringed twice watching that. :) |
|
||
|
"In the big scheme of life, this is just so not important. Has anyone on here heard about what happened in Ct.? THAT is something to be all up in arms about...not this" If it were only possible to care about one thing that might make sense. The reason not to care about this is that the exposure of wedge bases and the (incomplete) exposure of the Zig Zag on the Masked Magician just didn't amout to much. The volume of non-Masked Magician exposure on YouTube alone is many times all the Masked Magician episodes, and that's just an immovable fact of life. Adjust or move on. |
|
||
|
I used to be addicted to the masked magician when I was younger and it was instrumental in developing my interest in magic. However, now I think the whole idea sucks and it clearly has damaged some peoples reputation, reduced their audiences or caused them unnecessary embarrassment while being heckled. I agree with the point that learning the basics of a trick from a book and developing it is a lot more satisfying than copying a routine that has been exposed on television (not that I have ever tried to do anything exposed by Val). The journey is more important than the arrival. I can honestly I have learned more from Hugard & Braue than I ever learned from the masked magician. |
|
||
|
If there is one thing The Masked Magician did for me, was I changed the way I do magic! I still do the occasional "magic trick", but the WAY I do it is completely different. If I buy magic today, it's something I want for my collection, or it's a unique effect, like the L*n@ series. Doug |
|
||
|
[quote] On 2013-04-30 20:31, R.E. Byrnes wrote: "In the big scheme of life, this is just so not important. Has anyone on here heard about what happened in Ct.? THAT is something to be all up in arms about...not this" If it were only possible to care about one thing that might make sense. The reason not to care about this is that the exposure of wedge bases and the (incomplete) exposure of the Zig Zag on the Masked Magician just didn't amout to much. The volume of non-Masked Magician exposure on YouTube alone is many times all the Masked Magician episodes, and that's just an immovable fact of life. Adjust or move on. [/quote] So ... A broken bone is OK since cancer is worse!!!! is that it? |
|
||
| He is wrong headed and lost many friends. in college in the early 70's I used classics and they were very strong. today the internet has all secrets. google coin in bottle. google cigarette though coin, google anything. we need to put all of penn and tellers secrets on the internet, in detail, step by step, level the playing field. why can they expose ? |
|
||
| Let me clarify before a storm erupts. of course you expose when you are trying to sell magic. that can be for money. or expose for a laugh. so there it is. and the public will not remember this masked guy or what penn and teller have exposed. at that moment, when performing, you do a signed card to a wallet and maybe to a sealed envelope if so inclined and you have created wonder. I do not perform much did have occasion last week to stroll at a nice private event and did KAP's wallet. people like it. my palm and handling are strong. then a double crimp thing with the signed card. wow, magic. at a given moment, make a coin disappear properly. you have done a little magic. the fake transfer is the best thing I do. you lift 3 cups and there is fruit, wow, how did that happen. I thoroughly enjoyed the little wonder I gave that party last week. wonderful. magic is safe. people are easy to fool. and I do support teller and his creative work on the rose, as he is a connoisseur, and I would not take from him or anyone really. thankfully I have my own stuff. |
|
||
|
The masked magician hurt more than just the magicians. The people who we perform to come to see an illusion, they want to see magic. People ask us to do tricks, cause they want to be fooled. They want to believe in magic. When the impossible is performed, it creates a tension in the person being tricked, and it's a good feeling, a feeling of adrenalin and amazement. Sure, immediately, they want to know how we did it, because they want some of that power. But after that, they appreciate that they don't know the secret. After awhile, they remember that they had a good time, and they remember that you showed them something miraculous. I know someone who has watched just a couple of episodes of the Masked Magician. She said that after she saw the secrets, it "killed" the whole trick. When the secret was revealed, she groaned and literally said "oh, that's stupid". Of course, there are many different types of spectators. I haven't performed to many people, but I do have friends and family who each have a different perspective of magic. The masked magician 'outed' magic to the whole public. I wish the secrets would only be revealed to those people who are serious about putting the amount of time to perform them. People who like seeing magic, don't want to know the secret! They want to be fooled and entertained. They want to believe in magic. |
|
||
|
[quote] On 2013-02-21 12:48, R.E. Byrnes wrote: "So let me make sure I understand this. I don't do a zig zag in my show, but it's a good trick. A REALLY good trick that has stood the test of time. According to your line of thinking, one should be fine with eliminating the zig zag from their show in favor of "better" magic?" yes [/quote] When was the Zig Zag ever a good trick? As a seven year old in the early seventies it didn't fool me. |
|
||
|
I remember watching these specials on tv back then. As to if they hurt any magicians or not, that is not for me to say or judge, so I won't. I do remember reding a statement made by a magician years ago, and I am paraphrazing here, as it went something like this... "Anyone can become a magician, that is not the hard part. But only a person whom loves their craft, respects their audience, and gives back more then they ever received can become a great entertainer, now that is where the reak magic is at!". I can remember seeing the cup and balls trick performed, it was done by a well respected name in magic so I will not say whom I seen do this, but I will tell you it was quite boring to me to watch. But then, I saw Penn and Teller perform the cup and balls, not only did they perform it, they showed how it was done, they used clear cups and tin-foil balls, and all I can say is that they WERE MARVELOUS, EXTREMELY CAPTIVATING, ABSOLUTELY SUPERB and EXTREMELY ENTERTAINING and they REVEALED the secret. The point is, while I seen this trick done by one respected magician and whom did not reveal how it was done, it was extremely dull and boring. But I also seen the exact same trick performed by Penn and Teller, two more respected magicins, while they did reveal it, it NEVER EVER distracted from the pure showmanship, enjoyment, amazement, wander, and fun of the trick, they had it all and gave all and the fans received and enjoyed it all. Even if Penn and Teller had not revealed the secret, it still would have been just as awesome and fun, no matter what, but they did. So for magicians whom say they got hurt because of Valentino revealing these secrets, and please take this with all due respect as I mean no disrespect by it... MAYBE, JUST MAYBE, it is NOT because of Valentino and others like him who have revealed these tricks that you have suffered, but it might be just because you are a very poor showman and your act and/or reputation with others is that you are extremely dull and boring and you need to change completely. As I said before, I don't mean it with any disrespect at all, and I do fully respect you, I am just saying!? Another quote I read from a very famous magician (I believe it was Harry Houdini), and I am paraphrazing again here, goes something like this.... "Don't over estinate your abilities and skills to entertain an audience and never insult their intellegence but play to their hopes and fears and desires.". I just fealt that both of these quotes were and are still very powerfull and very thought provoking, and my own enjoyment of watching a true performer comes from thier own showmanship and not in their secrets. |
|
||
| One serious problem and contradiction with masked magician: His claim was that the motive was to encourage new thinking and the development of new ideas. But why would anyone want to spend hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars developing new ideas, only to have them exposed by the masked magician. It is not just classics that have been exposed but also new and creative ideas have been exposed by the masked magician as well. Though that could have been a different magician in the role. If nothing else he discourages the development of new magic. |
|
||
| ....and somehow, and despite YouTube, magic survives. |
|
||
|
Ask Charlie Justice how he feels about Val exposing "Prohibition". Ask him if he feels it has cost him. Doug |
|
||
|
Really? He DID expose that? I have yet to see one of those shows, so I wouldn't know, but that is BEYOND lousy. The special tool used in that effect is used for probably several hundred effects. Like many of you, I came up with my own many years ago. Exposure of Charlie's trick can be pretty far-reaching because of that. While I realize that memories are short, audiences aren't as dumb as we may like to think they are. Clearly, they aren't as dumb as we want to give them credit for. An item like the one used in "Prohibition" is the kind of thing that people may remember and watch for. Like the TT. People can see that both of those, like all utility devices, have multiple uses. Exposing a utility device can't possibly fit into the concept of getting rid of old stuff to create new stuff. Loads of new effects can be created every day using such items. Not that anyone ever bought the premise of "encouraging new thinking." But, just in case someone did, this particular exposure should put that to rest. Isn't that Becker guy behind the exposure shows? Jeez, I wish he would find his way back home under that rock. -MJ |
|
||
|
Yeah, MJ. And what burns me to the bone is the exposure of Coin Thru Glass Table. Another use for that utility. I'm not as mad at Val as I am Bruce Nash. He is the evil behind this. Doug |
|
||
| If your act lives or dies by the exposure of a secret, well, that is a pretty thin straw to hang your act on in this day and age. Am I any less amazed watching a good cups and balls because I know how it is done? Am I any less amazed by an amazing closeup act just because I know most of the secrets? Of course not. Makes me enjoy it even more because I recognize the skill involved and I can get lost in the presentation. I've never been much of a fan of big stage illusions, so I'm sure that is part of my lack of concern. |
|
||
|
I see your point, Hudson, and you're right...pretty thin straw. I'm not a pro. I rarely perform any more. So when I do, and YouTube/Google rears its ugly head, my act takes a nosedive. I really don't have an "act", per se. And I don't appreciate the few things I do well, exposed! I guess I'm overly sensitive. I'll admit that. I'm Old School. I earned my wings. I was a pro/semi pro for almost 2 years. So, I no longer do Prohibition. I no longer use The Dye Tube. Forget the Zombie. I don't buy the latest Magic trick. I haven't bought anything new since Don's Magic Shop so many years ago. I don't need to. What I have will last me my lifetime. It's a shame those classics have to be retired for a while. People do forget. Doug |
|
||
|
You guys don't get it do you?? Well it sounds like HudsonView does, but the rest of you don't. You keep looking at everything from the MAGICIAN's POINT OF VIEW and not THE FAN/AUDIENCE and THAT IS WHY your shows are dclining in numbers NOT because your secrets were revealed. In all honesty, if Harry Houdini was still alive today and in good health, I believe he could expose every effect and illusion he would do and STILL PACK the major arenas COMPLETELY 100$ FULL for EVERY APPEARANCE, NOT because of his past successes or he because he revealed the secrets, but because HE WAS A TRUE SHOWMAN! And in today's modern age, I HONESTLY beleive Houdini would do just that, JUST TO PROVE he IS/WAS the greatest SHOWMAN OF ALL TIME. Houdini knew how to ENTERTAIN and that is something ALL MOST ALL MAGICIANS have forgot about. For you all it is all about keeping the secret for a TRUE SHOWMAN it is all about the audience and pleasing them. |
|
||
|
[quote]On Sep 14, 2014, TheBigDC wrote: You guys don't get it do you?? For you all it is all about keeping the secret for a TRUE SHOWMAN it is all about the audience and pleasing them. [/quote] Yeah. I'd go along with that. Welcome to the Café, DC! :) Doug |
|
||
|
Not only is Val a ****** monkey, his narrator is an ass as well. He always sounds so smug and smarmy, acting like we are nothing but fakes and frauds out there to take advantage of people. I mean, even not knowing how an illusion was done, and puzzling as to how we do it, magic entertain. We know that and our audiences know that. And no person walks away from a show thinking we have powers. They know deep down it was a trick, and they were surprised, awe struck and most important entertained. I can not say enough about what a hose he is. |
|
||
|
[quote]On Sep 19, 2014, DrNorth wrote: Not only is Val a ****** monkey, his narrator is an ass as well. He always sounds so smug and smarmy, acting like we are nothing but fakes and frauds out there to take advantage of people. [/quote] Mitch Pileggi. Known from The X Files. Bruce hired him too. Could-a been anyone... Doug |
|
||
|
X Files Stars Mitch Pileggi and William B. Davis chat with Paul Draper about "The Masked Magician", "Skepticism", "Moon Landing Denial", "The Magic Castle" and more in front of an audience of 5,000 fans at Salt Lake Comic Con FanX. Watch him squirm. https://youtu.be/4yekwfE-SHU |
|
||
|
Maybe it's just me, but I have always thought the masked magician (not worth capitalizing) looks like, and has the demeanor of, a complete idiot. No one knows who he is. No one cares what he looks like. Wears an absolutely stupid looking mask -- and I mean stupid. It's comical, even clownish. The manner in which he performs is just awful, downright embarrassing. No personality, no drama, no theater, no comedy, no human interaction, no tension -- just a clinical exposure of someone else's magic with a silly monotonous voiceover. He offers nothing original other than the format itself. Anyone who watches him may be fascinated with the methods and the deception, but rest assured that no one gives a rat's a-- about him personally because there is nothing to like about him. He doesn't connect on an emotional level and he's a snitch. What's there to like about that? Does he upset me? No. I am indifferent about this guy. Let him do what he wants. I am just saddened that his "business model" is to spoil the fun for those who enjoy and are fascinated by magic, and to do so while babbling out some platitude BS regarding "encouraging" magicians to come up with something new. That is complete rubbish. Magicians have been deploying old principles decked out in new dress for centuries. I have some news for this masked simpleton. The real magic is the performer and that is something he cannot ever tip or give away due to his obvious deficiencies as a performer. All he can do is to disclose the props and the secrets that others use. But those props and secrets don't really matter. Tell someone how the linking rings are done and have them watch a master of the effect and they will be blown away by the magic of something memorable. But this simpleton doesn't get that. He doesn't understand what every accomplished magician knows -- that it's the performer who makes the magic, not the secrets or props he or she uses. Show a layman how card men palm a card and they will never catch a master of the sleight who knows misdirection. By the time they start looking for the sleight, it will have already been done. As for the masked clown, nothing is memorable about what he does. Zero. He is as entertaining as watching open heart surgery. |