(Close Window)
Topic: Flash Coins Re-Lit
Message: Posted by: billappleton (Dec 15, 2012 01:45PM)
Hi all, I've been working on the Eric Jones classic Flash Coins Re-Lit and wanted to share some tips and tricks as well as ask for some help.

First, you have to get comfortable with your flash paper. I have been ordering from Theater Effects and getting the 8 x 9 inch sheets for $9, which I cut these in 16 equal pieces. So each pack of paper with 4 sheets gives me about 64 pieces to work with, each about 2 inches square.

These come packed in water and need to be dried out. The amount they dry and their condition is very important for consistent results. Store the squares in a metal airtight container, only remove the sheets when loading up for the next trick otherwise keep your container closed. Remember there is lots of tossing flash paper in this trick, you don't want to toss one into the storage container.

Here is how I fold them, this is important. I fold across the long diagonal so that they are a triangle, then I fold the two long corners in and crumple and twist the tail kind of like you were rolling a... cigarette. The piece will have a big crumple on one end and a little tail and look just like a little white... um... tadpole! yes that's it. You want a consistent folding method.

You light the TAIL and toss, that is key. Here are some mistakes I've made. If the piece sputters there can be a bit of delay, don't toss that one onto your hand, it will likely ignite there. Also when you pour the four pieces out on the table be careful, one time I tossed a flaming tadpole and it bounced right into the pile! Also be aware that this trick inevitably burns up the surface of your closeup pad, don't use a good one.

A major tip is to make some non-flammable tadpoles and practice with them. Also I use a candle for live fire practice, unless you have someone who will sit there and hold a lighter. You might consider using a candle for the performance too, I don't think that detracts from anything and is safer and more consistent.

Now asking for some help. The last move where the coin disappears is tough to make look good. I am thinking of substituting the UCCU for the last vanish. Does anyone know how to do this better? Also I am working on a new routine with a TTGF so there are 4 coins. I would appreciate any pointers to material with one handed coin appearance moves and/or she** or fli**er vanishes that could be used.

OK that's all, not sure if anybody is working on this, let me know!
Message: Posted by: Alwow (Dec 18, 2012 01:39PM)
Hey Bill, I'm actually practicing this also and the timing does seem pretty difficult. I'm considering sleeving the coin and then going back to the flame for a cleaner vanish. Just a thought..
Message: Posted by: billappleton (Dec 18, 2012 03:48PM)
Hi Alwow, sleeving for the last vanish? That's a good idea, then go back to the flame. The fire vanish is sensational if you can pull it off however.

For what its worth here is how I practice that last one. I use my fake paper tadpole and do the toss exchange over and over. The tadpole has to go over the top, and the coin below. Be sure the tadpole is landing in the other hand. Then practice in a mirror, try to make it look good without the fire. Eric does the toss and then that hand moves away. If you can get the main flare right at the peak of the toss that will hide a lot.

Another question is what to do with your hand when you have the coin hidden there.
Message: Posted by: Alwow (Dec 18, 2012 08:19PM)
Now that I'm thinking about it, I may still do a version of the flash vanish after the coin has been sleeved. Sleeve the coin (via the technique Eric taught during his penguin live lecture and I believe he said it on extensions of me) and then still toss the paper towards my empty hand and essentially it gives the same effect. I believe this would address your question as well.
Message: Posted by: billappleton (Dec 19, 2012 12:10PM)
That sounds great, if you can get the flash vanish and then also be completely clean. I am wondering about the UCCU for the same thing -- an enhanced flash vanish.

Have you worked out any improvements for the first appearance? It's a little weak, but at least that one is simple to do.

The second appearance is killer I love that one. This works OK with my dollar size TTGF ma*ne*s and all.

But the third appearance is essentailly a one hand production. Got to be something better there. There are lots of one hand productions BUT that hand has to hold the flash paper too.
Message: Posted by: Alwow (Dec 19, 2012 03:30PM)
I haven't tried to change the routine other than that last vanish. I'm simply satisfied with being able to perform the routine effectively so far.
Message: Posted by: billappleton (Dec 22, 2012 01:51PM)
Hi All, here is a performance of flash coins, happy to hear thoughts and criticism! Thx Bill

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dk5fA-JvQs8

This is a "unlisted" link...
Message: Posted by: bowers (Dec 23, 2012 01:00AM)
Ha bill
I loved it.great performence.i can tell
you put a lot of practice in this.
todd
Message: Posted by: J-Mac (Dec 23, 2012 01:44AM)
Very well done, Bill! I especially liked your handling of the last vanish. I know that one took some serious practice time. :)

Thanks!

Jim
Message: Posted by: whiteoakcanyon (Dec 23, 2012 05:52AM)
Bill,

I thought it was great. You seemed very comfortable with the flash paper and the coins. Great job!

Mark
Message: Posted by: TWOCAN (Dec 23, 2012 09:56AM)
Bravo Bill. Loved it.. PT
Message: Posted by: billappleton (Dec 23, 2012 11:22AM)
Wow thanks everone!

I was wondering if anyone had a better idea for the 2nd production, right now it as the same as the first.

Also there end up being 2 more or less identical vanishes, seems like there could be something better.

So I basically just extended the original routine with the extra capabilities of the TTGF, seems like that could be better.

Thanks! Bill
Message: Posted by: billappleton (Jan 1, 2013 04:06PM)
Another version with a different production and some better vanishes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQYAbRYJ6Xc
Message: Posted by: Waterloophai (Jan 1, 2013 04:40PM)
Hi Bill,

Even better then the first presentation. The candle, placed in the middle, gives a more esthetic view.
I have only one minor remark for what it's worth. Maybe I think to much as a magician and it is because we know the secret but I never underestimate my public. I agree that the visual "dissolving" of the three coins into one above the candle is a pretty sight but it has (but that is my opinion) a disadvantage too. (most)People are not idiots. When they see transforming 3 coins into 1 without any suspicious movement, then there can be only one explanation:how it indeed actualy works.
Maybe it is wiser to hide the "dissolving" with the right hand and then "mime" as if the two coins are in that hand and then let the dissolve above the flame.
In my opinion that part is now TO pure and perfect. So pure that the solution is obvious for a person who thinks only one second.
I don't say that I am right. It is only my opinion.
Message: Posted by: bowers (Jan 1, 2013 04:48PM)
Wonderful magic bill
I thoughly loved it.
todd
Message: Posted by: billappleton (Jan 1, 2013 06:07PM)
[quote]
On 2013-01-01 17:40, Waterloophai wrote:
In my opinion that part is now TOO pure and perfect.
[/quote]

Great feedback, this may be too risky. Still working on this one!
Message: Posted by: BanzaiMagic (Jan 1, 2013 07:17PM)
Nice routine. Your hands are more "equal" in the second video. You probably already saw that and made the adjustments yourself, but it is quite an improvement in the second video.

One thing. You make a point of saying that the coins are going "back where they came from" when you never show them coming out of the purse. As a matter of fact, you make a fairly convincing show that there is nothing in the purse at the begining when you dump out the paper wisps. Perhaps you could use one more piece of f***h paper aimed at the purse for the final materialization of the coins, and adjust your patter accordingly.

The TTGF is just such a beautiful set!

Alan
Message: Posted by: jpleddington (Jan 1, 2013 07:30PM)
It's a nice piece. A couple of suggestions:

1. You say "Just like that" several times throughout the routine. I don't think it adds anything. The appearances and vanishes speak for themselves. If you do want to say something at these points, either use it to move forward in the routine or give it some other sort of theatrical significance (e.g., a joke). Many magicians (myself included) have problems with these sorts of verbal tics, and a virtue of recording yourself is that you can find them and eliminate them.

2. When taking (?) the coins one by one from your left hand to vanish them, the take looks awkward and the right hand looks stiff. I think you can make the fake take look much more like the real thing.

Nice work overall!

Jason
Message: Posted by: Xcath1 (Jan 1, 2013 07:39PM)
Hello,
Congratulations, on the routine. I don't know if this was just for the camera buy I think this routine looks more comfortable and therefore more magical if you are standing.
Message: Posted by: Alwow (Jan 1, 2013 09:25PM)
Nicely done Bill. I performed this recently for friends and family. I did run into a snag with my routine as when I went to my fl****r to go from two to three coins it wouldn't open! I had to improvise and move to the vanish sequence. It still went pretty well but, for me I was a little frustrated/disappointed.
Message: Posted by: billappleton (Jan 1, 2013 11:58PM)
Hi Alwow, keep the faith, there are lots of moving parts on this one.

I showed my wife this trick early on, and the first piece of flash paper bounced off the coin and into the other pieces of flash paper sitting on the table, and the whole thing went up in flames! She told me I probably shouldn't do this particular trick.

:)
Message: Posted by: Alwow (Jan 2, 2013 03:48PM)
Yeah I noticed you were using fairly large pieces I've went with smaller pieces and they work pretty well. As they say practice makes perfect and performing is where you learn the most for us magicians. Each performance I do I always have come away with several things to improve upon from my previous performance. Good luck to you and keep those extra pieces away from the bouncing fire balls. :)
Message: Posted by: ArturoZ. (Jan 3, 2013 03:32PM)
Great job! I just ordered a 3CF can't wait! Love this routine, very visual.
Message: Posted by: go4relax (Jan 4, 2013 03:27AM)
Hi there, great work on the routine!

May I ask you something slightly OT?
On Metal 3, Eric names the coin purse he uses, but I don't understand a word and so I can not find it on the net.
I like it, because the Clips are inside.

Anyone Out there to help an austrian amateur out ?

Thy guys and keep ist going :)
Message: Posted by: billappleton (Jan 4, 2013 02:23PM)
I am using the "Large Pressure Release" Ton Onosaka Purse

On Metal 3 Eric is using the "Regular Pressure Release" size with half-dollar coins.

Stevens Magic has them all, and Flash Paper
Message: Posted by: BanzaiMagic (Jan 4, 2013 09:05PM)
Here it is at Stevens:
http://www.stevensmagic.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=103_39&products_id=112102

And at Seo:
http://www.seomagic-usa.com/catalog/product_info.php/manufacturers_id/18/products_id/220
(ithe same purse is called "small" at Seo)
Message: Posted by: bowers (Jan 4, 2013 09:08PM)
They are absolutly incredible purses.
I have several of them in different sizes.
Message: Posted by: jazzy snazzy (Jan 5, 2013 06:46AM)
Nice work Bill!
Message: Posted by: webtech (Jan 5, 2013 07:54AM)
I would like to see a video of someone performing this before some spectators. It's a risky trick to perform and I don't think there are many people out there actually using this in front of a live audience. Except maybe Eric Jones. Do you all think it's too risky to perform live? Just wondering. I see lots of people discussing how difficult it is to get the flash paper right. And it has a lot of sleights and gimmicks. Is there anyone here who has performed it in front of specs? What were the results? Any mis-handlings?
Message: Posted by: go4relax (Jan 5, 2013 08:46AM)
Thx guys, I am already searching for those in Europe.
Kinda expensive to deliver from the US.

Thx a lot guys.
Message: Posted by: billappleton (Jan 5, 2013 09:52PM)
[quote]
On 2013-01-05 08:54, webtech wrote:
I would like to see a video of someone performing this before some spectators. It's a risky trick to perform and I don't think there are many people out there actually using this in front of a live audience. Except maybe Eric Jones. Do you all think it's too risky to perform live? Just wondering. I see lots of people discussing how difficult it is to get the flash paper right. And it has a lot of sleights and gimmicks. Is there anyone here who has performed it in front of specs? What were the results? Any mis-handlings?
[/quote]

Great questions. I have performed this maybe a dozen times for living humans, and the risk is worth the reward. On the risk side, I have burned the **** out of myself, that paper gets REALLY hot. I don't think you will ever hurt a spectator however. And you can't do this walk around, you will need a table. On the reward side, I can tell you the audience reaction is HUGE. People are FASCINATED with this. Especially the first couple of productions. I am hoping to work out the 'vanish' side of the effect better. Overall I would encourage you to give it a try. Start with a mirror and become familiar with your flash paper, let us know how it goes.
Message: Posted by: SPONGE KONG (Jan 22, 2013 03:40PM)
Great effect ! I see you have been putting the time into this amazing routine . Out of all 3 DVDs this to me is the best and most visually stunning when performed right, I have been working on this myself and will take on board your suggestions for the paper as I barely have a carpet left and the dog won't come near me!! Ke up the good work.
Message: Posted by: Philip Busk (Jan 22, 2013 08:19PM)
[quote]

I showed my wife this trick early on, and the first piece of flash paper bounced off the coin and into the other pieces of flash paper sitting on the table, and the whole thing went up in flames! She told me I probably shouldn't do this particular trick.

:)
[/quote]

Made me smile. I could so see my wife saying that to me.
Message: Posted by: billappleton (Jan 23, 2013 08:21PM)
[quote]
On 2013-01-22 21:19, Philip Busk wrote:
Made me smile. I could so see my wife saying that to me.
[/quote]

Thanks Philip! This is kind of like like the bullet catch or something. Don't become a magician to meet girls...

On a safety note I have found out that:

(1) don't fold or twist your paper ball too much, keep them loose and full of air, and they will burn much cooler, and

(2) aim for your palm, not your fingers. Your fingers tend to catch and hold the burning ball, while your palm keeps the hot spot moving.

Also a couple of people have asked where to get the flash paper, go here:

http://www.theatrefx.com/store/commerce.cgi?product=flash_paper_and_related

I am getting the 12 packs of 8 x 9 sheets and cutting them up into 1 x 2 inch pieces

this is 12 x 4 x 32 = 1536 pieces for 100 bucks. do you NEED 1536 piece? With live fire for practice time probably.

they are kinda picky about shipping, you might want to tell them you are an adult magician not some kid. Unless your are a kid.

I would definitely not tell then you are trying to catch burning balls of flash paper.
Message: Posted by: billappleton (Jan 27, 2013 09:47AM)
Just in case everybody wasn't sick of this yet, here is my latest version:

http://youtu.be/TuENBx7A02w

I tried to fix some of the previous problems that people pointed out.

I still wish the part where the first two coins melt together was better, happy to hear ideas about that part or anything else.

Unfortunately I'm still saying "just like that" in a few places. :(
Message: Posted by: MikeTheKid (Mar 15, 2013 03:42PM)
I think its easier to perform when stand up :P
Message: Posted by: videoman (Mar 17, 2013 12:46AM)
It looked fantastic IMO Bill!!!
I loved your flash appearances. Great timing and extremely magical.
Nice work!
Message: Posted by: Joni River (Jun 19, 2013 03:44PM)
I use a Dream coin to do my version of this trick. I say that the flame of the candle is the door to the unknown dimension, but that I need three igniters (papers) to take something from it. I take the flash papers from the purse and show it empty (i show that its completely empty) then take it appart on the table. I produce 3 coins and then make dissapear in the flame. . Finally I blow to the flame and take the smoke with my hand, to the purse.
If someone wants to see it I can send you a link .
Regards

Jonathan
Message: Posted by: Poof-Daddy (Jun 21, 2013 12:15AM)
I have done many fire effects (fire wallet, fire Bible double barrel glow plug shooter, single barrel cap ignited shooter, flash cotton, flash string...) even firing from behind the bar and into the crowd (above their heads) as a means to grab everyones attention and never (knock on wood) had a single problem. I also spit massive fireballs with 151 rum and used to have a fluid that when soaked in a cotton ball would burn upward only and could be rolled all around your hands front and back and even placed on your tongue and placed inside your mouth safely. I guess my point is... people are absolutely fascinated with fire and you just got to know its limits and use it to your advantage. :angry:
Message: Posted by: billfromoregon (Jul 13, 2013 10:46PM)
In response to webtech, I have been performing this for years, since I first saw Chad Long's lecture way back when (perhaps a hundred or so times for paying customers) and have never had an issue with the effect. It plays great (people are inherently fascinated with fire), and people are always impressed. I started out using a slippery sam, but now I use a TT gimmick, and have played with various ways to vanish the coins, generally (but not always) vanishing the last coin with flash paper. This trick is definitely one of my favorites to perform.
Message: Posted by: Joni River (Jul 14, 2013 05:37AM)
I'm rehearsing with a 3cn too ,i can show the coins closely, but I don't like the last vanish with flash paper. It works well for the wish papers but no for my plot.

Regards
Message: Posted by: jcrabtree2007 (Aug 2, 2013 12:20AM)
Just wondering - I found a lighter that looks like a genie lamp. Anyone using a lighter like this in their routine for flash paper re-lit. Seems like it might be a fun way to light the FP. May e it's too novelty. Haven't decided yet. Anyone else using one?
Message: Posted by: Trentonmatthew (May 4, 2018 02:54PM)
Iím curious if anyone has used any other flash products besides waded up paper? Like the new plastic stuff?
Message: Posted by: EasyK (May 4, 2018 06:34PM)
This post is almost 5 years old by the way. :)
Message: Posted by: matthewauj (Jun 27, 2018 04:58PM)
Eric mentioned OxF Coins in the tutorial. Are these coins required for this routine, or can I just use a regular gravity flipper and shell?
Message: Posted by: David Neighbors (Jun 27, 2018 06:05PM)
Hay some times the old stuff is the best! :)
Message: Posted by: inigmntoya (Jun 28, 2018 10:46AM)
[quote]On Jun 27, 2018, matthewauj wrote:
Eric mentioned OxF Coins in the tutorial. Are these coins required for this routine, or can I just use a regular gravity flipper and shell? [/quote]

The OxF has properties that let you handle the nested pair more freely - you can toss from hand to hand, etc. w/out the shell flying off.
Message: Posted by: matthewauj (Jun 28, 2018 01:02PM)
Is it necessary to perform the effect?
Message: Posted by: inigmntoya (Jun 28, 2018 10:00PM)
[quote]On Jun 28, 2018, matthewauj wrote:
Is it necessary to perform the effect? [/quote]

No, not for Flash Coins Relit
Message: Posted by: matthewauj (Jun 28, 2018 10:06PM)
Great thanks!