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Topic: Improving one's self through hypnosis
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Feb 3, 2013 09:12AM)
Hi,

As you know, I'm new to this forum. But I have a simple question: I would like to know if someone as myself can learn self hypnosis as a means of making permanent inner changes in my self. Not talking about quitting smoking since I don't smoke, but I'm referring to other changes such as gaining more self confidence, improving my attitude toward others, seeing life in a more positive light, improving self esteem, perhaps gaining more self confidence with the opposite sex,, learning to let go of past painful memories and encumbrances, etc, etc.

Is self hypnosis real ? Is it efficaceous in making lasting, permanent changes in one's innner self? Can a novice such as myself learn it? Where would I start? Etc, etc.

I would really appreciate any input you guys can give me.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Feb 3, 2013 09:37AM)
This forum is about entertainment hypnosis and not to open the debate of "is hypnosis real". The answer to your questions is "yes", but I certainly wouldn't be coming here seeking advice on self-improvement or empowerment.
Message: Posted by: dmkraig (Feb 3, 2013 11:25AM)
The answer to your question, as Mindpro said, is "yes."

The thing is, a lot of people claim they have learned self-hypnosis when all they are doing is relaxing. There's nothing wrong with being able to relax quickly and deeply, it's just not hypnosis. The end result is that because they're not in hypnosis, any suggestions are unlikely to be accepted.

So the easiest solution is to visit a trained and experienced hypnotherapist. Do a search for one in your area. Make an appointment and tell him or her exactly what you want. In that one session you'll not only be hypnotized and resolve some of your issues, you'll also

learn what hypnosis is and is not
learn how to do self-hypnosis
have an anchor set so you easily and quickly go into hypnosis by yourself

The challenging part will be learning how to appropriately learn what suggestions to make. For example, it's not a good thing to "let go of past painful memories" because you'll be open to experience similar things again. Instead, you would want to remove the emotional charge you still feel over those memories.

Ask you hypnotist what books he/she recommends. I would suggest the book "Helping yourself with self-hypnosis" by Frank S. Caprio and Joseph R. Berger.

Oh, and by the way, if you are hypnotized and if the suggestions are made in a way that your subconscious mind will accept them, suggestions given during hypnosis and self-hypnosis actually improve in strength over time. You no longer even think about the old patterns because they're no longer a part of your new approach to life.
Message: Posted by: Pomdini (Feb 3, 2013 11:44AM)
I agree entirely with dmkraig. Forget self hypnosis for now and seek out the best hypnotherapist you can find. Search for a reputable hypnotherapy register/association or two in your country and use them to find a therapist you feel confident with. If the first one doesn't help, please do try again, all hypnotherapists are not made equal.
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Feb 3, 2013 11:50AM)
Mindpro,

I apologize, for I was certainly not trying to start a debate! I was simply seeking answers from experts. I assumed that many people here, even though entertainers with hypnosis, are pretty much experts on the subject of hypnosis in general and in all it's facets.


I apologize if I offended anyone, but I was simply seeking out knowledge in the only place I currently know where to possibly find it. I guess I figured if you guys don't know the answers, nobody does.

I'm sorry for offending any one.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Feb 3, 2013 01:18PM)
No problem just referring you to the rules of this forum, the debate about the reality of hypnosis, and it's use in therapy.

Also if you've spent any time here lurking, NEVER assume anything about those here. Most (not all) are not actual hypnotists but magicians trying to position themselves closely related to hypnosis. They don't work with hypnosis on a daily basis, performance, therapeutic or otherwise. Also as of the last couple of years there is a heavy overseas and European influence here which may or may not be helpful to you depending where you are from and the style of hypnosis of interest.

There can be some very helpful and useful information here pertaining to performance hypnosis of all types. If you have used the search function or visited the archives, you will understand some of the topics you are presenting are longtime nasty hot topic issues here.

dmkraig as always offers some very good and insightful advice.
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Feb 3, 2013 05:23PM)
I have to disagree with the above posts. Hypnosis, at least on a stage, is not a real and distinct state. Therapy is not my thing, so I offer no view on it.
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Feb 3, 2013 06:12PM)
Just from reading these few posts, it is glaringly obvious to me that I have mountains to learn.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Feb 3, 2013 08:07PM)
Real lasting change comes from within. The rest is up for debate.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Feb 4, 2013 05:39AM)
Tony how do you know its not real? There is "proof" that the brain behaves differently in response to suggestion when hypnotized and I wouldn't think that would make any difference with regards to context stage or therapy. I think the state non state argument is a waste of time. Hypnosis DOES affect people in ways that normal every day communication doesn't you don't need a brain scan to see that. Lasting change comes from within because that's where reality exists for each individual. Reality is fluid its not fixed. Hypnosis isn't really a science its more of an art. That's why trying to dissect each element and trying to prove or disprove it exists is not an accurate way to understand and a limiting way to learn.

Real lasting change comes from within. Hypnosis among numerous other things can help you make those shifts sometimes a lot quicker than other ways. All a hypnotherapist does is reconnect you with your inner resources you have everything you need to be do anything you want already inside. At least that's the theory..
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Feb 4, 2013 06:27AM)
[quote]
On 2013-02-03 18:23, TonyB2009 wrote:
I have to disagree with the above posts. Hypnosis, at least on a stage, is not a real and distinct state. Therapy is not my thing, so I offer no view on it.
[/quote]

...or you can take advice here from a kiddie magician, that says he does hypnosis shows, yet does not believe hypnosis exists, ...but yet claims to do a hypnosis show !?!
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Feb 4, 2013 06:59AM)
All I'm trying to do is conclude a lifielong search to find something to effect lasting inner changes in myself. I do indeed believe that real change comes from within. That is apodictic.

I've spent a lot of my life studying the phenomenon of "self talk" (Anybody ever heard of Chad Helmstedtter?)

Anyway, my goal is to find a way to get those positive self talk scripts into my deepest core without having to repeat them to myself or listen to them on a tape for a gazillion hours till they finally kick in and supercede my old inner scripts / programs which have been with me for a lifetime. My ratiocinations gave me to think that I MUST bypass the concious mind, the "GATEKEEPER". if you will. I'm tired and weary of the old way of endless repetition, so upon more thought I graviitated toward hypnosis as my final hope. Now I don't have the funds to pay for a hypno-therapist, and that leaves me with self hypnosis.


That is how I ended up here, as a last thread of hope that someone could steer me in the right direction. Then I ended up offending peoole, for which I am truly sorry.

And that's my story (you know how the rest goes) ......"and I'm stickin' to it"'
Message: Posted by: dmkraig (Feb 4, 2013 12:06PM)
@daffydoug, yeah, that's the problem with "positive affirmations" and "self talk" and similar methodologies.

I look at it like an old speakeasy. If you knock on the door to get in, you have to know the password. If you don't have the password, you're not allowed in. However, if you keep coming back, day after day, week after week, month after moth, the gatekeeper MIGHT let you in.

With hypnotherapy, the speakeasy is the unconscious, outside the door is the conscious, and the door itself is called the "critical factor." When the conscious says, "I'm gonna quit smoking" the critical factor says "it's addicting and you can't" and the unconscious goes along with the critical factor. As Danny said above, real change comes from within. If you don't change the unconscious, you don't change.

So you can pound on the door over and over and maybe you'll get in after weeks and months or longer of repetition. Or you can just give the password—hypnosis—and get inside, directly to the unconscious.

Actually, that's the simple part.

The really difficult part comes once you're inside. You don't want to make a fool of yourself and have everyone inside think you're an ***wipe! You have to know exactly what to say, how to say it, and when to say it. That's the therapeutic part of hypnotherapy.

If you want to learn hypnosis for regular work, either internal for self-change or external for helping or entertaining others, that can be learned in a few minutes. But if you really want to do changework, it takes training/study and experience. I would respectfully suggest just going to a hypnotherapist. He or she will be able to help you achieve your desired changes rapidly.

(Pssst. One of the reasons various psychotherapists don't like hypnotherapy is because the results occur so fast. Did you know that one of Freud's goals with psychoanalysis was to have it last a long time so he would have patients coming back again and again and make him a lot of money?)
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Feb 4, 2013 02:58PM)
Talking at yourself is great. Affirmations are great.

Till you get out and start DOING, they are worthless.
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Feb 4, 2013 08:37PM)
[quote]
On 2013-02-04 07:27, Mindpro wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-02-03 18:23, TonyB2009 wrote:
I have to disagree with the above posts. Hypnosis, at least on a stage, is not a real and distinct state. Therapy is not my thing, so I offer no view on it.
[/quote]

...or you can take advice here from a kiddie magician, that says he does hypnosis shows, yet does not believe hypnosis exists, ...but yet claims to do a hypnosis show !?!
[/quote]
At least I can do a hypnosis show. I don't have to put sixty people on the stage and play a numbers game. If you ever move beyond that I might start taking your little views a bit more seriously.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Feb 4, 2013 09:03PM)
That's funny, you're a joke. I get paid quite handsomely to put on a show of that size.
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Feb 5, 2013 09:11AM)
Dmkraig,

Thank-you for the good advice! It was very informative.

As I said, I'm flat busted, don't have the money for a hypno -therapist. I guess that brings me to a dead end as far as long lasting inner change. It's the end of the road for me,
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Feb 6, 2013 11:45AM)
[quote]
On 2013-02-04 22:03, Mindpro wrote:
That's funny, you're a joke. I get paid quite handsomely to put on a show of that size.
[/quote]
Thank you Mindpro for giving us a new definition of what it is to be a hypnotist. I didn't realise it was all about the size of the cheque. There was me thinking technique and showmanship were part of the equation.

In all my years on this forum your contributions have offered the most banal and conventional of views. This is the closest to an original idea I have seen you stumble upon. Well done.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Feb 6, 2013 12:26PM)
[quote]
On 2013-02-06 12:45, TonyB2009 wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-02-04 22:03, Mindpro wrote:
That's funny, you're a joke. I get paid quite handsomely to put on a show of that size.
[/quote]
Thank you Mindpro for giving us a new definition of what it is to be a hypnotist. I didn't realise it was all about the size of the cheque. There was me thinking technique and showmanship were part of the equation.
[/quote]

Yes you see once you have the skills, technique and showmanship mastered, and then perform them for a living you are monetized for your knowledge, expertise and performance...by the size of your check. It's called being a professional entertainer.

In all my years here reading your posts it still amazes me that you don't understand this, and of course that you still really are not performing a stage hypnosis show, yet have all the answers and abstract opinions.

Keep it up, it's performers like you that keep me in business.
Message: Posted by: dmkraig (Feb 6, 2013 03:30PM)
[quote]
On 2013-02-05 10:11, daffydoug wrote:
Dmkraig,

Thank-you for the good advice! It was very informative.

As I said, I'm flat busted, don't have the money for a hypno -therapist. I guess that brings me to a dead end as far as long lasting inner change. It's the end of the road for me,
[/quote]

Not at all. It just needs to begin with a change of focus and a change of attitude.
Perhaps you can get a weekend job. Within 2 weekends of work you should have enough for a trip to a hypnotherapist.
Perhaps you can cut back on eating out, buying music or games, going to clubs or movies. I don't know of anyone who doesn't have some expenses that an be cut.
It comes down to what you want to do. If you really want to change, you can come up with a way to do it.
Contact a professional hypnotherapist. Perhaps he or she will allow you to do some work in exchange for therapy.
I would respectfully suggest that rather than focusing on what you can't do, begin your change by looking at what you can do.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Feb 6, 2013 05:07PM)
It is only the end of the road if you give up.

I will tell you this. If you are just going to give up then it is indeed the end of the road. BUT hypnotherapy is not some sort of magic bullet that cures all. If you don't want to improve or let the obstacles just win then you lose. No amount of therapy would have helped anyhow.

Read the book "Feeling Good". Basically the concept is cognative therapy. The thought your thinking right now is responsible for the mood you are in. The guy is the gold standard. No hypnosis needed. The book is about 8 bucks.
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Feb 6, 2013 06:34PM)
Mindpro, many of us here perform shows week in week out (myself included), and we do it without needing sixty people on the stage, and without your staggering arrogance.

By the way, I am taking you at your word that you actually do hypnosis shows at all. Since you post anonymously you could be a spotty nerd who has read a few books.

When we read posts by guys like Danny Doyle it is obvious he has been in the trenches and speeks from deep knowledge. I don't pick that up from you. So your words are about as relevant to me as the sound of the rain beating on the roof. I suspect I am not alone in that view.
Message: Posted by: hypnokid (Feb 7, 2013 05:12PM)
[quote]
On 2013-02-06 19:34, TonyB2009 wrote:
By the way, I am taking you at your word that you actually do hypnosis shows at all. Since you post anonymously you could be a spotty nerd who has read a few books.[/quote]

Oi - don't you be dissing hte spotty nerds.

[quote]When we read posts by guys like Danny Doyle it is obvious he has been in the trenches and speeks from deep knowledge.
[/quote]

Totally. Danny doesn't appear to be threatened by what others do. that says more than any number of shouty, aggressive arrogant name calling posts.

Why would Mindpro want to be anonymous if hes so good?

HK
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Feb 7, 2013 06:12PM)
[quote]
On 2013-02-05 10:11, daffydoug wrote:
Dmkraig,

Thank-you for the good advice! It was very informative.

As I said, I'm flat busted, don't have the money for a hypnotherapist. I guess that brings me to a dead end as far as long lasting inner change. It's the end of the road for me,
[/quote]

Not all hypnotherapists are that great in fact sometimes you can get a lot more out of books that cost just a few bucks. Get a hold of "Awaken the Giant Within" or "Unlimited Power" by Tony Robbins. Or another great self help book is "Be Your Own Life Coach" by Fiona Harrol its under 10 bucks. If you take your time to go through each chapter and do the suggested exercises it will be a lot more beneficial than paying most hypnotherapists £100's. At the end of the day its up to you hypnosis is just tool. These books have lots of tools in them that you can learn. And they are more effective than basic hypnotherapy which accounts for MUCH more than half of hypnotherapists that I have met or known onlne.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Feb 7, 2013 06:19PM)
[quote]
On 2013-02-06 13:26, Mindpro wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-02-06 12:45, TonyB2009 wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-02-04 22:03, Mindpro wrote:
That's funny, you're a joke. I get paid quite handsomely to put on a show of that size.
[/quote]
Thank you Mindpro for giving us a new definition of what it is to be a hypnotist. I didn't realise it was all about the size of the cheque. There was me thinking technique and showmanship were part of the equation.
[/quote]

Yes you see once you have the skills, technique and showmanship mastered, and then perform them for a living you are monetized for your knowledge, expertise and performance...by the size of your check. It's called being a professional entertainer.

In all my years here reading your posts it still amazes me that you don't understand this, and of course that you still really are not performing a stage hypnosis show, yet have all the answers and abstract opinions.

Keep it up, it's performers like you that keep me in business.
[/quote]

I don't know Mindpro..... You are generally monetized for serving a market and giving the market what it wants. That market can change disappear or be limited in terms of opportunity and economics. Its great you are still getting big pay checks enjoy them and be grateful your market still supports you.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Feb 7, 2013 09:22PM)
I can think of lots of reasons to hide who you are. None of them mean you are a bad performer.
Message: Posted by: quicknotist (Feb 7, 2013 11:38PM)
"Good" is subjective and irrelevant.
If Mindpro is who I think he is, it looks like he definitely works plenty.

So, what's your excuse HK?

[quote]
On 2013-02-07 18:12, hypnokid wrote:

Why would Mindpro want to be anonymous if hes so good?

HK
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: mojo (Feb 8, 2013 10:01AM)
I don't want Daff to get lost in the shuffle here, and I'd just like to clarify something with him. When you say "end of the road", I'm assuming you mean kind of a temporary dead end in your self improvement search, not that you're suicidal. Right?
Message: Posted by: dmkraig (Feb 8, 2013 12:32PM)
[quote]
On 2013-02-07 19:12, mindpunisher wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-02-05 10:11, daffydoug wrote:
Dmkraig,

Thank-you for the good advice! It was very informative.

As I said, I'm flat busted, don't have the money for a hypnotherapist. I guess that brings me to a dead end as far as long lasting inner change. It's the end of the road for me,
[/quote]

Not all hypnotherapists are that great in fact sometimes you can get a lot more out of books that cost just a few bucks. Get a hold of "Awaken the Giant Within" or "Unlimited Power" by Tony Robbins. Or another great self help book is "Be Your Own Life Coach" by Fiona Harrol its under 10 bucks. If you take your time to go through each chapter and do the suggested exercises it will be a lot more beneficial than paying most hypnotherapists £100's. At the end of the day its up to you hypnosis is just tool. These books have lots of tools in them that you can learn. And they are more effective than basic hypnotherapy which accounts for MUCH more than half of hypnotherapists that I have met or known onlne.
[/quote]

MP, while I also think highly of Robbins' books (they're very basic NLP), I respectfully disagree with you.

You're presenting, here, what I call the "magic pill" solution. "Take your time to go through each chapter and do the suggested exercises" and it's like taking a magic pill that will make everything okay. Unfortunately, it assumes that the particular magic pills on those or other books are the pills a person needs. A person could take lots of pills, buy lots of books, and spend thousands of hours before finding exactly what they need.

And even when someone find the exact self-help book simply reading a book and doing the suggested exercises rarely works. Most people do not have the determination to *continue* doing the exercises and studying the material. They want a magic pill. Do it once and I'm perfect. More than that, forget it! (And no, I'm not assuming the OP is like this).

So, in fact, it is almost always (although I fully admit not always) faster, cheaper, and more effective to work with a professional than to struggle on your own. I imagine that you might ask how it's cheaper to go to a hypnotherapist how might charge $100 u.s. than buying a book that costs under $20 u.s. My response is that the first book one gets on self-help rarely suffices. It could take dozens of books. Add to that the time (my time is valuable, isn't yours?) it takes to read and do the work in the books, the question of dealing with actual issues rather than presenting problems, and just the costs of pain and anguish that could be so quickly resolved in a couple of sessions, and going to a professional comes out as a bargain.

But whether a person goes DIY on self-head hacking or goes to a professional, the person still has to have the desire to change. Getting the O.P. to see how much he wants/needs to change by giving up a little or doing a little extra work and allowing him to prove to his unconscious that he really does want to change would be of great benefit. Essentially saying, "Just read the dam book and leave us alone!" is ultimately defeating.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Feb 8, 2013 02:44PM)
DMK the problem is most "professionals" are trained to deal with basic problems. The usual stop smoking lose weight anxiety etc. Its basic stuff and they think hypnosis is the magic bullet. How many times do you hear hypnotherapists offline and online go on about whether the client "was hypnotized or not"? Who cares its irrelevant in therapy.

the original post was

>>>>>As you know, I'm new to this forum. But I have a simple question: I would like to know if someone as myself can learn self hypnosis as a means of making permanent inner changes in my self. Not talking about quitting smoking since I don't smoke, but I'm referring to other changes such as gaining more self confidence, improving my attitude toward others, seeing life in a more positive light, improving self esteem, perhaps gaining more self confidence with the opposite sex,, learning to let go of past painful memories and encumbrances, etc, etc. <<<<<<


He also said

>>>>As I said, I'm flat busted, don't have the money for a hypno -therapist. I guess that brings me to a dead end as far as long lasting inner change. It's the end of the road for me,<<<<<<


The guy is broke these books cost next to nothing. I sold out Theaters a couple of months after a basic training in stage. I put a huge amount of my success down to reading Unlimited Power at a time when NLP courses weren't available here and no one knew what they were. the truth is in many cases you only need a few basic tools and be willing to persevere if you want to change something. I guess if you have painful memories or some kind of trauma then its worth having a few sessions with a good hypnotherapist to remove them. Its also worth employing a great coach or mentor to help you achieve your goals. But the good ones don't come cheap.

And the books are as good if not a lot better long term than the inexperienced or limited ones. Its about doing the best with what you have. Getting into the habit of reading good books and actually doing whats in them can go a long way to shaping who you become. Or where you eventually end up. its a start in the right direction.
Message: Posted by: owenscott (Feb 8, 2013 08:37PM)
Seems like OP doesn't want to do shows .... just to mae himself better.
Message: Posted by: dmkraig (Feb 10, 2013 04:14AM)
[quote]
On 2013-02-08 15:44, mindpunisher wrote:
DMK the problem is most "professionals" are trained to deal with basic problems. The usual stop smoking lose weight anxiety etc. Its basic stuff and they think hypnosis is the magic bullet. How many times do you hear hypnotherapists offline and online go on about whether the client "was hypnotized or not"? Who cares its irrelevant in therapy.[/quote]

Well, I also moderate a forum for hypnotherapists and have talked with hundreds of them. Not one professional hypnotherapist has ever asked it. However, those who read a book or two and set themselves up as hypnotists ask it all the time. They simply don't last in the profession for long.

Yes, most hypnotherapists are trained to deal with basic problems. Of course, the same can be said of people in any profession.


[quote]The guy is broke these books cost next to nothing. I sold out Theaters a couple of months after a basic training in stage. I put a huge amount of my success down to reading Unlimited Power at a time when NLP courses weren't available here and no one knew what they were. the truth is in many cases you only need a few basic tools and be willing to persevere if you want to change something. I guess if you have painful memories or some kind of trauma then its worth having a few sessions with a good hypnotherapist to remove them. Its also worth employing a great coach or mentor to help you achieve your goals. But the good ones don't come cheap.

And the books are as good if not a lot better long term than the inexperienced or limited ones. Its about doing the best with what you have. Getting into the habit of reading good books and actually doing whats in them can go a long way to shaping who you become. Or where you eventually end up. its a start in the right direction.
[/quote]

Well, let's see. You're simply taking him at his word that he is broke. I absolutely agree that he thinks he's broke. However he apparently has enough time and money to own and operate or gain access to a computer. His issues are not about housing, clothes, or food. So maybe he's not as broke as he thinks. You're acting as a facilitator to his belief system. I tried to show him that opportunities are available.

I have no doubt that you had success as a result of reading Tony's book(s). Unfortunately, that's called anecdotal evidence. It's basically meaningless although it sounds good. You read a book and were successful. Albert Einstein drank milk as a child and became a genius. By your logic, every person who drinks milk should be a genius and everyone who reads one of Tony's books should be a success. It just not true. According to Wikipedia, "Robbins' programs have reached over 4 million people from 100 countries around the world." Are all of them successful? Half? 1%?

I gave the O.P. practical ideas of what he could do in order to get the help he wants. You tell him to read a book and he'll be magically healed.

I don't think so.
Message: Posted by: Pomdini (Feb 10, 2013 08:05AM)
I think you should be charging a consultation fee for some of your posts dmk!
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Feb 10, 2013 04:42PM)
I disagree with you DM. But I am not going to waste anymore time arguing. Here's the thing. When you apply what I suggest then you change your thought patterns which in turn moves you towards something you want. During that process you may go see a hypnotherapist or you may not. But one thing is for sure you have a much better chance finding what it is you need to do in order to get what you want.
No one thing will get you success its a series of steps. I still say taking time out to absorb and apply what you find in good motivational books is a good start. I would once again say the vast majority of hypnotherapists are limited to a few basic issues and do not have the creativity or ability to do much outwith them. And some are on another planet -

As for books or audio programmes the % of those that actually finish them are pretty low. The % that do what I suggest are even much lower. Not many have the discipline to do so. Good mentors cost a LOT of money and not everyone has access to them.

Bythe way what I didn't mention is even although I was broke after six months reading unlimited power take a couple of weeks sometimes on a chapter. I borrowed £1000 to get mentoring from a stage hypnotist. That was in the late 80s and that was a LOT of money. I also committed myself to theatre run of 4 shows at £800 a night. And spent £500 on advertising posters etc. I talked the theatre into letting me pay them from the ticket money after each show.

I was able to do that be cause I was focused and had become disciplined and I knew my timing was right. I would not have done any of that without the discipline and exercises I got in those books. I have done this since many times over and over with various books. I don't always get the results I want. But all of this is a journey and I am even now currently having a go at something else. Back to the original poster. You cannot really make any permanent changes because nothing is permanent. You will continue until the day you die to change. But you do have some influence over the direction in which you change. And you can only ever really fail if you give up.
Message: Posted by: dmkraig (Feb 11, 2013 11:42AM)
Thank you, Pomdini! LOL.

MP, It's fascinating to watch you. You say you're not going to argue (apparently, being able to discuss is out of your consideration) and then you spend the next 400 words doing exactly that.

You wrote, " When you apply what I suggest then you change your thought patterns which in turn moves you towards something you want." I have to disagree with you. Your suggestions were read a book and practice the exercises. The problem with that is that the exercises are one-size-fits-all. In your case, they fit, and they worked. That's fantastic. But for every person they do fit, there are dozens they do not fit. Also, as I believe you correctly stated, some of the people who start reading such a book or taking such a training do not have the discipline to finish them. You're absolutely correct.

So how is telling a person to get a book and practice some exercises in it going to help them develop any discipline? It's not. I choose to give some practical techniques that could make a person aware that they could do better and do more, ranging from getting an extra job for a short time to limit going to movies or clubs.

You're also correct that good mentors (and unfortunately, bad ones, too!) cost a lot of money. But which is more costly, earning some extra money and paying for a mentor or spending years reading book and accomplishing nothing?

When I was a kid, I desperately wanted to do a magic trick called the Die Box. Unfortunately, the price was way out of what I could afford. Eventually, I saw an advert for a smaller version that was much less expensive. I bought it. It was made out of cardboard! I practiced with it for a few hours before it fell apart from use. Some time later I found a much better quality one. it wasn't the one I wanted, but it was better than the one I had previously bought. I purchased it and used it for a couple of years. I was always dissatisfied because it didn't have some features of the better models. Finally, I purchased the good one I had originally wanted. By now, it had gone up in price. In the end, it cost me twice as much to get what I had originally wanted, and that's not even counting the time I wasted.

So yes, a good mentor or coach or even a hypnotherapist can seem pricey, but if they help you, they're a bargain.

MP, I'm not criticizing you for your focus and discipline. What I'm saying is that what works for one person doesn't work for everyone. There are a lot of really bad hypnotherapists who have the same approach as you. It's what I call being "process oriented." The motto of such a process orientation is this worked for me (or this is the way I was trained), therefore it must work for everyone. If it doesn't work for you then you're resisting or incapable of being hypnotized. On the other hand, and this is where you and I differ, there is the approach I call being "client oriented." With this approach you look at each person and see what their specific needs are. Then you help them by dealing with their needs.

If you don't want to work with the, you tell them, "Go read this book and do the exercises."

And making gross generalizations is not going to help anyone. "Nothing is permanent?" Really? So if someone (and I really hope this never happens) shoots you in the head and you instantly die you're going to get better because death isn't permanent? After all, if death is permanent your statement is false. If an asteroid wipes out the Earth then the Earth will what, grow back? After all, the total destruction of our planet, according to you, isn't permanent.

To the OP: it's total BS that you cannot make permanent change. The real question is whether or not you end up wanting the change to be permanent. Sometimes, it take a while for a change to sink in and become permanent. We can slip back into previous ways. But what is better is when a change is fully established and with the new mindset you see even better opportunities if you choose to change in new ways. So it's not that changes cannot be permanent. It's that after you change, you may want things to be even better.
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Feb 12, 2013 08:37AM)
Dmkraig,

I don't have a computer. I post from my cell phone. My computer was left close to 700 miles away in another state when me and my wife seperated. We seperared partially because I lost my job in the state where we were living and we were about to lose our home after our money ran out. (which doesn't take long when you lose your job, I might add.) It wss the stress and strain on our relationship that caused the seperation. So I moved from Arkansas back to Indiana and live with family, now.

Anyway, my ex handles the phone bill now and the subsequent internet access. (She knows if she doesn't she will lose contact with me entirely, which is not her wish presently. I am extremely thankful for her largesse.

I'm not one to look a proverbial gift horse in the mouth! I think she is obtaining the money for the phone bill through a relative or a friend. She is happy and willing to pay for it. I purposely avoid watching videos so as not to jack her internet bill up sky-high. I stick to text, e-mail and the Magic Café, to keep it minimal for her.

I lost my job three or four months ago. The job previous to that one I maintained for eleven years, then that company went to Mexico, and hundreds of us were out of a job. I subsequently lost my car and my home and went through bankruptcy.

So I don't have a P.C. (Just to give you a clearer picture of my current scenario)
Message: Posted by: dmkraig (Feb 12, 2013 02:58PM)
DD, I am very sorry that you, like so many thousands of others, have been screwed by the economy.

I assure you that many people have been where you are. I've had to sleep in my car with all of my possessions in the trunk. I know what it is like and I'd be willing to be that many people here know what it's like.

But they worked themselves up and out of it. And I have no doubt that if you have the desire to do so, you can, too.

In fact, I'd bet that at some time in your life you've worked hard on something and you were very successful at it.

So you can choose what you want to be successful at. You can choose to focus your direction on living at home and surviving off the largesse of others, as you did in this post, or you can focus on what you actually can do.

It takes an average of sending out as many as 1,000 or more resumes to get a job. I'm not asking for your response, but think about how many you sent out this week. Could you have done more?
You had a job where, I assume, you worked at least 40 hours per week. Finding a new job is often at least as challenging as keeping a job. Ask yourself how many hours you've spent seeking a job this week. Could you have done more?
Ask yourself if there are any local, state, or federal resources you could used to help you find a job that you haven't taken advantage of.
Ask yourself if you've look toward updating your job skills and obtaining financial assistance for that.

One of the things I've noticed in dealing with couples is that new situations and their stresses and strains are rarely the only cause of separation. Usually there are several other causes and the new situation is only the infamous straw that broke the camel's back. Ask yourself if it's possible that there are other things you may have missed.

I'm not writing any of these things to criticize you are your situation. I've been there, my friend, and I know that these situations can be terrible and put us into a negative loop that is incredibly challenging to exit.
What I am suggesting is that there may be some opportunities you haven't looked at as yet. Perhaps there are ways to have a better future.

I don't have a magic wand to help you. Reading a book won't give you a million dollars. With work, however, I have no doubt that you can make things better.

Good luck!
Message: Posted by: Pomdini (Feb 14, 2013 03:34PM)
I find it interesting that early on in this thread someone said that this was not the place to come for self-improvement or empowerment.

I find it wonderful that those experienced in therapeutic practice can advise other users of the Café so expertly... and why not? If not performing hypnosis on stage (for many users regional regulatory bodies forbid the use of hypnosis as entertainment if practicing hypnotherapy), why can't this part of the forum indulge in a little soothing therapy?

I have thoroughly enjoyed dmk and daffyd's above posts and I am sure dmk would agree that he has been holding plenty back.

If stage hypnotists, who do not enjoy discussions of hypnotherapy, object, and why shouldn't they? This is their space after all, then perhaps the Café could provide another corner to its attic... I have held back from posting many times for these reasons and I am confident others have too.

This is a place where magicians help magicians and hypnotists hurl dung at hypnotists and perhaps one hypnotist could help one magician without even meeting him...
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Feb 17, 2013 07:14AM)
DMK Telling some one to to actually study and apply a book will do nothing. ONLY THEY CAN DO SO ITS UP TO THEM ITS A FIRST STEP. I didn't even read the rest of your post it was a bit long but Im sure you wrote some good stuff. But I will say the following to others who are interested in the self development side. Find someone who is getting the results you want and associate with them. sometimes the only way to do so is to get the books of those people who you want help from. Make it a habit to fill your mind with writing and thoughts from those who are getting the kind of success you are looking for. EVERYTHING STARTS INSIDE YOUR HEAD. Be careful what you fill it with. Absorbing books being around the right kind of people is much more effective than "self hypnosis" which is just a technique and limited by those teaching it (most hypnotherapists are broke). In many of these books you will find ways to use variations of that technique from those that have achieved great things. I know this can turn things around because it has for me on a number of occasions. And It has also done so for clients who were on their knees financially.

You will work much better and reach higher with the right thoughts going through your mind. I would have thought even the most average hypnotherapists would tell you that.

and I have experienced similar problems that the poster has described a couple of times in my life. The recession took all my business clients away second time in my life I was on my knees. This time last year I was ill in bed for a month worrying about money. I also lost my Girl friend through it. I decided to get a website up for therapy something for me is a huge step backwards. But I decided to spend time getting it ranked high on google and just go for it. I read everything I could on SEO. I phoned a few companies I wasn't satisfied with what they were offering. So I decided to teach myself. I set myself a goal to have the site ranked by end of January. Somewhere along this process of setting goals and getting back into habitually reading positive literature listening to audio programmes etc I found a mentor. I took the risk and borrowed the money to pay him. My site now ranks for 20 terms mostly number 1 and I get a few calls. Friday I signed someone up to a years business coaching. Which starts with a therapy session of a few hours next week at £900 sterling ( approx 1300 US)Followed by a years business persuasion coaching. So this one person has already paid for the mentor I will make quite a bit of money out of this one client who runs a recruitment agency.

Buyt that's just the start. This new skill is in HUGE demand because the majority of SEO companies don't have a clue what they are doing. I can blow them away and Ive only been in this business four months because I found someone who was EXCEPTIONAL and associated with them.

This week I have had two design agencies and an old friend asking me to do their websites. That's 3k each. I am also working on five others which I will rent to other businesses to provide them with valuable traffic. In other words by the end of year I will have a good amount of passive income. This has already transformed the quality of my life. And I couldn't do this three months ago. The only reason I can was because I was focused on reaching the highest level of SEO.

Because of this simple strategy - find those that are doing what you want and associate with them. It doesn't happen over night sometimes it takes a few years of struggle but if you stick to it you will benefit and get more of what you want whatever that is eventually.You might have to change direction a few times and get over set backs but if you keep feeding your mind with information from those that have achieved the kind of things you want eventually you will move in that direction. Sometimes faster than you would imagine.

Everything starts inside your head good or bad. When things have fell apart sometimes you can't see a way forward this is the time to try and reverse those thoughts and start moving towards something better. Its not easy nothing worth while is.But take those first steps. This is the answer to the original post. What I have described IS self hypnosis just do it!
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Feb 22, 2013 11:10PM)
I landed a job. All I'm waiting for is the drug test results to come back. That's not a problem since I don't touch drugs.

Anyway, I should be doing my orientation Wednesday and starting soon after that.
Message: Posted by: Pomdini (Feb 23, 2013 04:39AM)
Congratulations!
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Feb 23, 2013 04:36PM)
Not a job with any glory, though. Packing bacon.
Message: Posted by: dmkraig (Feb 23, 2013 06:13PM)
That's great news. Congratulations. It may not be a job that you think has "any glory," but it is a job. Perhaps if you see it not as an end ("Finally. I have a job!") but rather as a beginning ("This is just the start. There's no stopping me now!") you'll come to the conclusion that it's not the job that has the glory, it's the quality of the person who has the job where there is glory. And in spite of the challenges you've faced, you've achieved a victory. Now, you're at the beginning of something that can be fantastic: your future!
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Feb 27, 2013 06:54PM)
I appreciate your kindness.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Mar 2, 2013 07:26AM)
Daffydoug, this seems like it is time you should be posting in the "Tricky Business" forum more often if you have the desire to make more money. There is a way you can get a free website, members will give you advice helping you to marketing, etc. And who knows?, maybe making a satisfying additional amount of income will set you back up with your wife, improving your inner thoughts.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Mar 8, 2013 08:05PM)
[quote]
On 2013-02-23 19:13, dmkraig wrote:
That's great news. Congratulations. It may not be a job that you think has "any glory," but it is a job. Perhaps if you see it not as an end ("Finally. I have a job!") but rather as a beginning ("This is just the start. There's no stopping me now!") you'll come to the conclusion that it's not the job that has the glory, it's the quality of the person who has the job where there is glory. And in spite of the challenges you've faced, you've achieved a victory. Now, you're at the beginning of something that can be fantastic: your future!
[/quote]

He won't see it as an end if he starts working on his thoughts. If he doesn't start thinking beyond the job then the job will be the end. Its true there is no stopping him now PACKING BACON! . But spending all his time packing bacon could be stopping him from doing what he wants. While its great to get out of a fix by getting some kind of income in a time when you need it most - you need to take time to plan and work on your motivation to find ways to move towards what you want. Unless packing bacon is what you want. My guess is you don't. But then for some people that's ok I'm not making a judgement.

Get real dissatisfied with where you are. Get ****ed off with it don't accept it and start working out what you want and take the first steps towards it. We are only here once life is too short. And bacon is too salty for me.

If posting in tricky business is going to get you thinking about marketing and making money doing what you really want to do then its a good step. Associating with those already doing what you want is the answer. You don't need hypnosis. And this forum is full of contradiction and misinformation I wouldn't come here to "sort myself out". I have a feeling you will work through this and won't be packing bacon for too long.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Mar 8, 2013 08:26PM)
That last post explains a lot.
Message: Posted by: Yesmereyezed (Mar 19, 2013 06:28AM)
Maybe you should visit uncommonforum for a more therapeutic aproach of hypnosis.

http://www.uncommonforum.com/