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Topic: What is New Deck Order?
Message: Posted by: J-L Sparrow (Feb 20, 2013 06:54PM)

Reading the posts on this forum, I see a lot of talk about NDO (New Deck Order).

But what exactly [i]is[/i] New Deck Order, anyway?

I've seen new decks come assembled as A->K of Hearts, then A->K of Clubs, then K->A of Diamonds, then K->A of Spades, with the Ace of Spades on the face of the deck. However, I've known some people that think that all the suits should be A->K.

I've googled this, and the seemingly most accurate answer I've found is that it varies by manufacturer. However, I couldn't find a specific answer here on the Café, yet many posters here talk about NDO as if it's clear what order they're talking about.

Yet, I'm not clear about New Deck Order. Could someone fill me in?

Message: Posted by: Dennis Loomis (Feb 20, 2013 07:18PM)
I suppose that the only answer is anything the spectators will accept as NDO. Each of the 13 cards constituting a suit are together and in sequence. Probably the suits alternate Red - Black - Red - Black and the suits run either Ace up to King or King down to Ace. Probably the only folks that would ever quibble with your claim that the deck has magically gone back to NDO is serious card players that open a lot of new decks. In fact, you don't have to say that the deck is in "New Deck Order" you can say that it has magically gotten into order. And if you ribbon spread one of the patterns mentioned above you will be fine. It is a rather stunning end to a sequence of card tricks especially if you've allowed the deck to be shuffled by spectators occasionally.

Dennis Loomis
Message: Posted by: Cain (Feb 20, 2013 08:31PM)
You have it right: A-K, A-K, K-A, K-A (Hearts, Clubs, Diamonds, Spades).

My closer ends with the cards all in A-K order. It's not *technically* NDO, but no layperson would EVER bring that up. If anything A-K, A-K, K-A, K-A is slightly less intuitive than A-K, but it doesn't matter. Bring the deck to that conclusion, and they're dead.
Message: Posted by: J-L Sparrow (Feb 21, 2013 11:35AM)
Thanks for the responses. It's just I've read several posts here discussing how to get a card deck from NDO (New Deck Order) to a special (stacked) order, useful for when a magician opens a fresh new deck of cards right in front of spectators.

It might not make a difference to the spectators what order the cards are in, but it certainly would make a difference to the magician. If a magician memorized a routine that used a NDO of A->K for example, he/she might be in for a nasty shock (when opening a new deck while performing) if half the cards ran the other direction.
Message: Posted by: landmark (Feb 25, 2013 08:37AM)
My understanding is that it depends. In the US, Bicycle Cards are in staystack, whereas in Europe, other brands are more often just A-K for each suit. Hence the harder job for US cardpeople to use the Tamariz NDO to stack feature.
Message: Posted by: Card-Shark (Feb 28, 2013 05:14PM)
Bicycle decks do not come in staystack and need to be rearranged before going into Tamariz.
The Phoenixdecks do come in AK, AK, KA, KA Spades, Hearts, Diamonds, Clubs.
Though Tamariz explains the reverse order to start (Clubs, Diamonds, Hearts, Spades), the Phoenix Deck NDO also allows the same. Just do the 4 Faros, then reverse the 26 cards and place the rest on top instead of underneath. at that point you are back to the same handling done by Juan. A final Faro and you are in Tamariz stack.
Message: Posted by: glowball (Mar 29, 2013 09:05PM)
To J-L,
You have rightly pointed out the second reason for using "NDO".
1) Others have pointed out the impressive visual display of an "NDO" spread to spectators (in this case true NDO is not necessary).
2) Your observation that a true NDO can be utilized by the magician to DO the trick.

Also where the true NDO for a band new unopened deck comes in handy is if you have software that can utilize that knowledge to do a trick. I have written some software that needs to know the NDO. By first setting one character to "B" for Bicycle, or "F" for Fournier, or "I" for India etc. I can do the trick without having to rearrange the deck. I also have "A" for Aron, "T" for Tamar etc. to do certain tricks using a stack.

Note that the USA Bicycle decks are surely also available in countries other than USA.

The Fournier (primarily Spanish) is in the following NDO:
SPADES: A 2 3 … J Q K
HEARTS: A 2 3 … J Q K
CLUBS: K Q J … 3 2 A
Note that the two red queens (Hearts then Diamonds) are the kissing kings whereas the Clubs and Diamonds are the kissing kings in the USA Bicycle decks.

A friend bought me a Lexi (has word VEEKAY on joker) deck from India.
It's new deck order (deck held face down in dealing position) is from the top of the deck:
CLUBS: K Q J … 3 2 A
HEARTS: K Q J … 3 2 A
SPADES: K Q J … 3 2 A

Also if you don't already have it by all means get the free "stackview" software. It is really neat, shows most of the popular stacks and NDO's. Also with a click of your mouse you can do perfect "In" faro's and "Out" faro's and see the results instantly.
Message: Posted by: Macphail (Jul 3, 2013 05:14PM)
Thank you.