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Topic: Expanded Shell and 4 coins - suggested routines and/or books
Message: Posted by: Al Desmond (May 4, 2013 12:07PM)
Title says it all. What would be your recommendations for routines using an expanded shell and 4 coins. Matrix routines, coins across etc. I've never ventured into that area of coin routines and I'm interested in your favorites.
Message: Posted by: shakuni (May 4, 2013 12:33PM)
Roth's shelled coins across is the best.
Message: Posted by: Al Desmond (May 4, 2013 12:41PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-04 13:33, shakuni wrote:
Roth's shelled coins across is the best.
[/quote]

Source... book, manuscript, lecture notes, DVD... what?
Message: Posted by: vampiro (May 4, 2013 12:41PM)
Shakuni, I agree,
So far, I have not seen a better foundation than roth's shelled coins across. His use of a shell under other coin (s) is incredibly brilliant.

At the same time, a tapping move with the left hand on a coin, in the right, on top of a back clipped coin by Ponta on his sick video deserves special mention.
This is something that you could use in almost any coin routine. Brilliant.

At the same time, I need to ask for advice for ditching a shell. Has anyone tried the Cosmar coin device or the coin ditcher device, both from lybrary.com?
Message: Posted by: David Neighbors (May 4, 2013 12:49PM)
Hay Al,
I have a ton Of Routines With 4 coins and a shell! :) We need to get together So I can show you some of them!
Message: Posted by: afinemesh (May 4, 2013 12:50PM)
Shadow coins is a very good routine (as well) and uses a [. I'm new here (with this) like Al, so the exact resource escapes me. I think it's on the WGM [ dvd.
Message: Posted by: Daniel Clemente (May 4, 2013 01:25PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-04 13:41, Al Desmond wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-05-04 13:33, shakuni wrote:
Roth's shelled coins across is the best.
[/quote]

Source... book, manuscript, lecture notes, DVD... what?
[/quote]

Stop being the laziest nastiest person on this forum and use GOOGLE!!! Your unreal on here. People will eventually seize to help you because of your responses on here...
Message: Posted by: afinemesh (May 4, 2013 01:28PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-04 14:25, Trooper11040 wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-05-04 13:41, Al Desmond wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-05-04 13:33, shakuni wrote:
Roth's shelled coins across is the best.
[/quote]

Source... book, manuscript, lecture notes, DVD... what?
[/quote]

Totally un-necessary, Trooper! You continue the behavior you eschew! Take the high road; the guy apologized!

Stop being the laziest nastiest person on this forum and use GOOGLE!!! Your unreal on here. People will eventually seize to help you because of your responses on here...
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: afinemesh (May 4, 2013 01:30PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-04 14:25, Trooper11040 wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-05-04 13:41, Al Desmond wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-05-04 13:33, shakuni wrote:
Roth's shelled coins across is the best.
[/quote]

Source... book, manuscript, lecture notes, DVD... what?
[/quote]

Stop being the laziest nastiest person on this forum and use GOOGLE!!! Your unreal on here. People will eventually seize to help you because of your responses on here...
[/quote]

Totally un-necessary, Trooper. You continue the behavior you eschew. Get over it; the guy apologized!!
Message: Posted by: Daniel Clemente (May 4, 2013 01:34PM)
Do you ever read his answers!?! Look at his post from the last 30 days! Everytime someone helps him, he's nasty!! I helped him yesterday on the for sale forum and he came back with snide remarks!
Message: Posted by: afinemesh (May 4, 2013 01:36PM)
OK, so he's a little brash. (like I said), he apologized!
Message: Posted by: Al Desmond (May 4, 2013 01:41PM)
[quote]
Stop being the laziest nastiest person on this forum and use GOOGLE!!! Your unreal on here. People will eventually seize to help you because of your responses on here...
[/quote]

Hmmm... magicians helping magicians. Of course I could Google it. Everyone that uses the Café could Google most any information they want... including material that exposes methods and routines. In that case... why even have the Café? My question was to elicit a discussion. Your response was to shut any discussion down. And the answers to my inquires would probably be helpful to others reading this thread.

What seems common and inane to you may be confusing and unknown to others here. If these questions and topics are so banal for you, then I suggest that you skip the discussion and go on to something that reaches your level of expertise. Think about it.
Message: Posted by: Daniel Clemente (May 4, 2013 01:43PM)
Read thru former post using google, and you will see that there are many post already devoted to shelled sets and different routines using shell sets
Message: Posted by: Al Desmond (May 4, 2013 01:46PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-04 14:43, Trooper11040 wrote:
Read thru former post using google, and you will see that there are many post already devoted to shelled sets and different routines using shell sets
[/quote]

Thank you for your "help."
Message: Posted by: Daniel Clemente (May 4, 2013 01:50PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-04 14:46, Al Desmond wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-05-04 14:43, Trooper11040 wrote:
Read thru former post using google, and you will see that there are many post already devoted to shelled sets and different routines using shell sets
[/quote]

Thank you for your "help."
[/quote]
"Your welcome"
Message: Posted by: Al Desmond (May 4, 2013 02:25PM)
Well moderators... let's lock this thread... Trooper says there is nothing left to discuss. I hate thread Nazi's :)
Message: Posted by: Daniel Clemente (May 4, 2013 02:41PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-04 15:25, Al Desmond wrote:
Well moderators... let's lock this thread... Trooper says there is nothing left to discuss. I hate thread Nazi's :)
[/quote]

LoL...people like you on forums make me laugh!
Message: Posted by: vampiro (May 4, 2013 02:57PM)
Hi Al,
To answer your question, Roth's is on World's Greatest Magic, Shelled Coins for one. I am sure it is on the first video set of NYCM.

Hey guys, we all get cranky and too blunt sometimes, including me. I pray that we can forgive one another by God's grace.
Scott
Message: Posted by: magicjoe (May 4, 2013 03:46PM)
If you have not seen David Neighbors work he can show you stuff for hourssssssssssss. I have seen him at FFFF for many years now, always amazing.
Message: Posted by: Al Desmond (May 4, 2013 03:51PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-04 16:46, magicjoe wrote:
If you have not seen David Neighbors work he can show you stuff for hourssssssssssss. I have seen him at FFFF for many years now, always amazing.
[/quote]

We live in the same metro area... I've just had some trouble going down hill to meet him. We've had a lot of snow up here, and the few times we've arranged to get together, snow came up. I prefer not to drive down from my mountain lair when the roads are sloppy. We've been in touch... hopefully soon we can meet up.
Message: Posted by: Al Desmond (May 4, 2013 03:52PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-04 15:57, vampiro wrote:
Hi Al,
To answer your question, Roth's is on World's Greatest Magic, Shelled Coins for one. I am sure it is on the first video set of NYCM.

Hey guys, we all get cranky and too blunt sometimes, including me. I pray that we can forgive one another by God's grace.
Scott
[/quote]

I just heard about the Roth DVD from a nice phone call... and thanks for the lead on the NYCM.
Message: Posted by: Octopus Sun (May 4, 2013 05:36PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-04 15:41, Trooper11040 wrote:
LoL...people like you on forums make me laugh!
[/quote]


oink oink 6up
Message: Posted by: Daniel Clemente (May 4, 2013 06:47PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-04 18:36, Octopus Sun wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-05-04 15:41, Trooper11040 wrote:
LoL...people like you on forums make me laugh!
[/quote]


oink oink 6up
[/quote]

What's that supposed to mean?
Message: Posted by: afinemesh (May 4, 2013 06:59PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-04 19:47, Trooper11040 wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-05-04 18:36, Octopus Sun wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-05-04 15:41, Trooper11040 wrote:
LoL...people like you on forums make me laugh!
[/quote]


oink oink 6up


[/quote]

What's that supposed to mean?
[/quote]

Yeah, no kidding!

At least yer laughin, Troop! :)
Message: Posted by: afinemesh (May 4, 2013 07:02PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-04 15:57, vampiro wrote:
Hi Al,
To answer your question, Roth's is on World's Greatest Magic, Shelled Coins for one. I am sure it is on the first video set of NYCM.

Hey guys, we all get cranky and too blunt sometimes, including me. I pray that we can forgive one another by God's grace.
Scott
[/quote]

Also, shadow coins (done by Michael Ammer) is on the WGM shell DVD.

And, right you are about the NYCM DVD (Vol. 1). The whole thing is dedicated to coins across, 3fly and shell work. Can't wait to bust this one open!
Message: Posted by: JLSchweitzer (May 5, 2013 11:42AM)
I will "third" NYCM DVD 1. Geoff Latta has a nice and simple routine on NYCM.

Also, might I suggest Coin One by Homer Liwag. It has a big surprise in the middle of the routine. Although I'm relatively new at this, Coin One doesn't have what I consider complicated or advanced moves. However, it will take time--as we all know--to perfect.
Message: Posted by: afinemesh (May 5, 2013 12:08PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-05 12:42, JLSchweitzer wrote:
I will "third" NYCM DVD 1. Geoff Latta has a nice and simple routine on NYCM.

Also, might I suggest Coin One by Homer Liwag. It has a big surprise in the middle of the routine. Although I'm relatively new at this, Coin One doesn't have what I consider complicated or advanced moves. However, it will take time--as we all know--to perfect.
[/quote]

Thanks for the heads up about coin one, J. But, I think NYCM is gonna have me busy for quite some time!

Also, the WGM shell DVD is quite good for the money! :)
Message: Posted by: Wizzard (May 5, 2013 01:47PM)
Al,
David Roth's Ultimate Coin Magic Collection Vol 1 has Coins Across w/ shell. This is probably the routine Shakuni is referring to.

JMN
Message: Posted by: Al Desmond (May 5, 2013 03:39PM)
Thanks for all the titles and help. I was away for the last 36 hours and I haven't had the time to look any of this stuff up (I had my Ipad with me, but I'd rather browse with the Ipad, not try typing or leaving long messages). I bookmarked this thread. Apparently I have some neat stuff to look into this upcoming week.

Thanks again all. (you too Trooper).
Message: Posted by: David Neighbors (May 5, 2013 03:52PM)
Your Welcome , :)

Hay soooo Let me know when you have time to get together ? And I will show you a FEW :) !!! I will be out of town the 23 of may till the 27 of may for a Magic Con!!! :) Ok latter man!
Message: Posted by: Dollarbill (May 5, 2013 04:35PM)
I can vouch for Daves work. Simply incredible. Ask him to show you the coins under glass routine where 1 coin at a time the coins disapear and then the kicker finish. Best trick ive ever seen performed. Bar none. Dave has some great stuff in print too. db
Message: Posted by: David Neighbors (May 5, 2013 05:29PM)
Hay Thanks Man! I'll Pay you latter! :) ( That's a joke Son! :) )
Message: Posted by: Al Desmond (May 5, 2013 07:42PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-04 13:41, vampiro wrote:
Shakuni, I agree,
So far, I have not seen a better foundation than roth's shelled coins across. His use of a shell under other coin (s) is incredibly brilliant.

At the same time, a tapping move with the left hand on a coin, in the right, on top of a back clipped coin by Ponta on his sick video deserves special mention.
This is something that you could use in almost any coin routine. Brilliant.

At the same time, I need to ask for advice for ditching a shell. Has anyone tried the Cosmar coin device or the coin ditcher device, both from lybrary.com?
[/quote]

I just ordered World's Greatest Magic, Shelled Coins... and David and I are getting together at a roundtable in Denver next Sat.. And then after the roundtable... Starbucks.
Message: Posted by: David Neighbors (May 5, 2013 08:04PM)
Yea And It Stays open to 2 A.M. :) WOW!!!
Message: Posted by: afinemesh (May 5, 2013 08:14PM)
Al And David doin coin stuff hopped up on caffeine. I may make the trip just to check that out!
Message: Posted by: David Neighbors (May 5, 2013 09:22PM)
Hay Your welcome To come and join us Man! ( I am sure we will be coming apart! :) )
Message: Posted by: afinemesh (May 5, 2013 10:42PM)
A little short notice this time, but thank you, David. Perhaps before the summer is through. . .
Message: Posted by: David Neighbors (May 6, 2013 12:02AM)
Ok just let me Know Man!!! :) The Magic table is on Sat. But the hard core grope meets On Monday night from 9:00 P.M. Till Midnight! :)
Message: Posted by: afinemesh (May 6, 2013 12:23AM)
Long haul on a Monday nite from Ca. :fruity:
Message: Posted by: David Neighbors (May 6, 2013 07:24AM)
Yea That's way only The Hard core are there! :)
Message: Posted by: Magician Shaun (May 19, 2013 04:43PM)
I wanted to second the Coin One Video. The teaching techniques are awesome for getting the timing and misdirection. The section showing the routine from the performers perspective in regular speed and slow motion are great for learning the routine. They show you what it should look like from your side and what the spectator sees.

I only have one complaint about Homer Liwag's Coin One video is that is the HANDS! My GOD those are the scariest, most terrible looking HANDS I have ever seen! They can't be his real hands, I just don't believe it....
Message: Posted by: Mb217 (May 19, 2013 05:57PM)
Lots of good talk here already, so my 2 cents is perhaps already depleted about by 1 1/2 cents. :D

Anyway, Roth's [ Coins Across is primo. I'd say what Homer Liwag (brilliant worker) does with the concept in his remarkable Coin One DVD is what youthful creativity does to any already great idea. It's like sprinkling what Mark Zuckerberg did with Facebook all over computer progenitors like Bill Gates and Steve Jobs. :D Sorta like, this is what this thing is, and here's what it can do on steroids. :D

Hey Gr8, as brilliant as Liwag's hands are (if you only knew), it is just the tip of the iceberg as to his abiliities and creativity, in magic, in a lot of things. I believe his Coin One comes from his once underground sensation effect, 4 Coins and a Filipino. Never paid attention to what his hands look like as I was just mesmirized as to what he could do with them, coins, cards, closeup, whatever! Like I said, he's an amazing worker and Roth knows him well, and the respect is more than mutual, I assure you. :) Anyone that has seen him work knows he's the real deal and then some.

Coin One has some really unique moves to it and a very different flow/style from Roth's but and equal appreciation should be given for the same sorts of brilliance and creativity. Both routines are worth learning and are some of the very best effects utilizing an X [ and 3-4 coins anywhere.
Message: Posted by: vampiro (May 20, 2013 12:52AM)
It is also important to mention Ponta the Smith's Sick DVD. He gives credit to Liwag and others for certain moves.
After a first viewing, one is overwhelmed by his finger-flicking. But after watching it a number of times, you start to notice some incredible moves which can allow you to do a no-shell version of coins across.

So although Ponta uses only regular coins on this DVD, some of his moves have advanced from Liwag's and others' moves. If you are looking to do a coins across with a ], which is highly magical, fairly easy, and straightforward, Roth's routine is the effect for you. Homer Liwag's routine would be more visible but also much more difficult.

But eventually, if you want to create your own version of coins across, it would be wise to sift through Ponta's Sick DVD, to get some great ideas
to create your own unique routine, based on all of the above.
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (May 20, 2013 01:04AM)
Paul Green's DVD In The Trenches has a routine, Above, Beside, or Below that is a coins across with that magic happening in their hand. It's a worker!
Message: Posted by: rannie (May 20, 2013 02:11AM)
Hello Al,

Here are some of my work through the years. I hope this will spark some ideas for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zN3yDX_Lwmo
My take on the classic TRANSLOCATOR


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-2wHIOlV44

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAh36G0Mi1c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEJqi0hCi8M (just foolin around)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3fPib9cJ-w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmzDuZu4cw4

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOwExcbYL74

PM me your email and I will gladly send you the manuscripts of SENCILLO

Cheers from Sunny Manila!

Rannie
Message: Posted by: Dougini (May 20, 2013 08:41AM)
Wow! Rannie, I had no idea...good stuff!

I agree on all the above. Al, may I suggest a great routine with an expanded [ and three coins?

http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/S9309

It's out of stock at Penguin, but if you can find it, this is some very cutting edge stuff here! Just the "Stealth Dump" is light years ahead of the common stuff.

Look around. You might find a copy! ;)

Doug
Message: Posted by: Magician Shaun (May 20, 2013 09:42AM)
Mb,

I was joking of course. If you look at Homer's site and his Coin 2 video, he jokes about how his hands are the worst hands in Magic. I believe he is referring to the calloused look of his hands....
Message: Posted by: rannie (May 20, 2013 10:06AM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-20 09:41, Dougini wrote:
Wow! Rannie, I had no idea...good stuff!

I agree on all the above. Al, may I suggest a great routine with an expanded [ and three coins?

http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/S9309

It's out of stock at Penguin, but if you can find it, this is some very cutting edge stuff here! Just the "Stealth Dump" is light years ahead of the common stuff.

Great stuff there!

Look around. You might find a copy! ;)

Doug
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: JLSchweitzer (May 21, 2013 10:19PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-19 17:43, Gr8gorilla wrote:
I wanted to second the Coin One Video. The teaching techniques are awesome for getting the timing and misdirection. The section showing the routine from the performers perspective in regular speed and slow motion are great for learning the routine. They show you what it should look like from your side and what the spectator sees.

I only have one complaint about Homer Liwag's Coin One video is that is the HANDS! My GOD those are the scariest, most terrible looking HANDS I have ever seen! They can't be his real hands, I just don't believe it....
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Jun 17, 2013 02:49AM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-04 13:07, Al Desmond wrote:
Title says it all. What would be your recommendations for routines using an expanded shell and 4 coins. Matrix routines, coins across etc. I've never ventured into that area of coin routines and I'm interested in your favorites.
[/quote]

Expanded Shells (World's Greatest Magic)

Here's a taste: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqCXE3rxB6o

You will learn MIRACLE routines that will gobsmack any audience:

DAVID ROTH
Coins Across - Coin Through Glass
Coins Through Table - Photo Coins
Perfected Coin Through Handkerchief

DAN HARLAN
Rising Dough

MARK LEVERIDGE
Slo Mo

HARRY ALLEN
China Change

JON ALLEN
Coins Across

Michael Ammar
Shadow Coins

GARRETT THOMAS
Imagination Coins
Message: Posted by: pepka (Jun 17, 2013 03:42AM)
Rannie, good to see you back on here. Seems I haven't talked to you in a long while.

I'm not much of a coin guy, but I have 1 small thing to add. Besides Shell Coins Across which was mentioned at the very top, I'd like to add A Familiar Ring by Paul Gertner. It's based on Roth's routine and is brilliant.
Message: Posted by: Quentin (Jun 27, 2013 02:25PM)
Let us not forget Derek Dingle's 'Silver Quick' from Apocalypse Volume One and is also in The Complete Works of Drek Dingle by Richard Kaufman.
It is four coins across into audience member's hand. You can also find it on DVD here: http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/S5929
Message: Posted by: Al Desmond (Jun 27, 2013 05:56PM)
All good suggestions... I went with the "Expanded Shell" DVD... and started with a silver Kennedy expanded set, tried a Van Dokkum Eisenhower set... and I've settled on Lassen WL set... I like the weight and feel of those coins.

Oh... and I got these lecture notes and a large manuscript from this guy named David Neighbors (or something like that :) Hi David... I won't be at the next two Roundtables... I will be in two casting sessions for my next play production in the fall... see you in three weeks)

All in all... I have enough material to keep me busy for a while... I want to become good at a few routines... not just passable at a whole lot of routines. Thanks for all the input.
Message: Posted by: Dr. JK (Jun 27, 2013 05:59PM)
Since no one has said it yet, I will: Geoff Latta's "Slippery Silver" from [i]Apocalypse 1-5[/i]. I actually haven't seen it mentioned much here on the Café at all, but I really like it.
Message: Posted by: David Neighbors (Jun 27, 2013 10:26PM)
Hi Al,
Ok see you then man! Missed you last Sat.! :(
Message: Posted by: giobbi1 (Jun 28, 2013 12:30PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-20 10:42, Gr8gorilla wrote:
Mb,

I was joking of course. If you look at Homer's site and his Coin 2 video, he jokes about how his hands are the worst hands in Magic. I believe he is referring to the calloused look of his hands....
[/quote]

Having known Homer from his days in Cincinnati, I can tell you, his hands feel as bad as they look. When you shake hands with him, they are like sandpaper, but watching them for just a few minutes, they eventually start to look like silk. Best close up magician I have ever seen.
Message: Posted by: Michael Rubinstein (Jun 29, 2013 05:29PM)
Latta's Slippery Silver and Not So Slippery Silver are on volume one of the NYCMS DVD series.
Message: Posted by: Quentin (Jul 6, 2013 03:06AM)
You will find an easy to do three coins across routine by Damian Jennings in the July 2013 issue of Genii. And the article, written by Ian Kendall goes into detail of the misdirection used, something sadly neglected in most published routines of this type.
Message: Posted by: J-Mac (Jul 6, 2013 10:47PM)
[quote]
On 2013-07-06 04:06, Quentin wrote:
You will find an easy to do three coins across routine by Damian Jennings in the July 2013 issue of Genii. And the article, written by Ian Kendall goes into detail of the misdirection used, something sadly neglected in most published routines of this type.
[/quote]

Excellent article! I read it last week and have already been working on that routine.

Thanks!

Jim
Message: Posted by: billfromoregon (Jul 13, 2013 10:26PM)
Doug Brewer's "Sounds Familiar" from his 'The Unexpected Stranger' book (or dvd). A great routine that happens in the spectator's hands - requires various sleights, but nothing too knuckle-busting, and it has a great finale! As I have mentioned before, this is a great book with great routines - I have performed (and still perform) several of the effects from this book, and find this to be a fantastic bargain. His coin in bottle is one of my favorite routines and always gets great reactions. Buy it - you won't regret it (I prefer the book to the videos, FWIW).