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Topic: Human or extraterrerstrial?
Message: Posted by: Woland (May 15, 2013 03:06PM)
Or something [url=http://siriusdisclosure.com/evidence/atacama-humanoid/]else[/url]?
Message: Posted by: Dennis Michael (May 15, 2013 03:19PM)
DNA proved it to be 90% human.

Search: atacama humanoid dna results
Message: Posted by: rockwall (May 15, 2013 03:24PM)
Are you sure the DNA didn't prove that we humans are descended from aliens?
Message: Posted by: Pop Haydn (May 15, 2013 03:36PM)
http://www.openminds.tv/analysis-of-the-atacama-humanoid-alien-972/

It is a mummified fetus.
Message: Posted by: rockwall (May 15, 2013 04:03PM)
Well, I think that's obvious. But is it a mummified alien fetus or human fetus? Or a mummified alien fetus that shares DNA with the aliens that began the human race? Curious minds want to know.
Message: Posted by: Mehtas (May 15, 2013 05:15PM)
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz............
Message: Posted by: irossall (May 16, 2013 05:42AM)
"Recently, some scientists working on DNA and computer analysis found that DNA has been around for over 10 billion years- but Earth has been here for less than half that time. Perhaps life is indeed universal, and contact spreads life from world to world"
Interesting statement. How could anyone know that DNA is 10 billion years old, unless they had a sample of DNA that came from somewhere other than Earth? Do Scientists have actual samples of old DNA? If they do, this is very good evidence that life does exsist outside our own planet.
Iven :patty:
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 16, 2013 06:22AM)
Way to assume your conclusion.
Message: Posted by: plink (May 16, 2013 07:12AM)
Looks like Jeff Dunham's Akmed the Dead Terrorist.
Message: Posted by: Magnus Eisengrim (May 16, 2013 08:24AM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-16 06:42, irossall wrote:
"Recently, some scientists working on DNA and computer analysis found that DNA has been around for over 10 billion years- but Earth has been here for less than half that time. Perhaps life is indeed universal, and contact spreads life from world to world"
Interesting statement. How could anyone know that DNA is 10 billion years old, unless they had a sample of DNA that came from somewhere other than Earth? Do Scientists have actual samples of old DNA? If they do, this is very good evidence that life does exsist outside our own planet.
Iven :patty:
[/quote]

If you follow the [url=http://phys.org/news/2013-04-law-life-began-earth.html] given link[/quote], you'll see that someone tried to apply "Moore's Law" to DNA. Moore's so-called law is based on the observation that solid state computer technology roughly doubles in the number of transistors per unit area every two years. The modelling in question assumed that that evolutionary complexity followed Moore's law uniformly for the existence of DNA. I doubt even they take their conclusions or their method particularly seriously.
Message: Posted by: Pakar Ilusi (May 16, 2013 09:07AM)
Santa's Elf. :)
Message: Posted by: Dougini (May 16, 2013 10:29AM)
No doubt we are not alone. This thing is so insignificant to what is out there. If the NASA liars would tell us the truth about what we found on the Moon and Mars...there would be none of this speculation.

My friend who is a Lt. Col. (ret), said what we found on Mars makes the Moon PALE in comparison! And they LIE to us and keep us in the dark! No wonder there are such conspiracy theories. Why can't they just tell us the truth?

Doug
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 16, 2013 10:48AM)
Oh my God tell me that was a joke. You are saying that literally tens of thousands of people are in on the lie and only oneretired colonel is ttalking. ....and it is to you?
Message: Posted by: Chessmann (May 16, 2013 10:54AM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-16 11:48, Dannydoyle wrote:
Oh my God tell me that was a joke. You are saying that literally tens of thousands of people are in on the lie and only oneretired colonel is ttalking.
[/quote]

No, he did not say that only one retired colonel is talking.
Message: Posted by: Salguod Nairb (May 16, 2013 10:54AM)
[img]http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m89rrymxdN1roxrxa.gif[/img]
Message: Posted by: EsnRedshirt (May 16, 2013 11:00AM)
Dougini, do you think the world is really ready for contact with an alien race? There would be mass hysteria. The cover-up may be keeping us safe.

Unless, of course, it's part of a Verdant plot to colonize our world... ;)
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 16, 2013 11:09AM)
Please study the science of space travel.
Message: Posted by: irossall (May 16, 2013 11:32AM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-16 12:00, EsnRedshirt wrote:
Dougini, do you think the world is really ready for contact with an alien race? There would be mass hysteria. The cover-up may be keeping us safe.

Unless, of course, it's part of a Verdant plot to colonize our world... ;)
[/quote]

This is what the Brookings report say's but who died and made them boss? Mankind has suffered many things and we are still here and I don't see any panic in the streets.

If the Government is not keeping secrets about Mars, why don't we get to see ALL the photo's of Mars. Cydonia is the most interesting part of Mars, why don't we go there and explore. At least if the pyramids, walls and face are only our imaginations, NASA could stop or at least put a dent in some of the "cover up" stories we keep hearing. It was only a few years ago that most people never heard of HAARP. It wasn't until photo's were shown to the Government that they finaly came up with a story instead of a denial.
Don't believe everything any side tells you. Question the authorities and keep an open mind.
Iven :patty:
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 16, 2013 11:48AM)
SCIENCE.
Message: Posted by: rockwall (May 16, 2013 11:52AM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-16 12:48, Dannydoyle wrote:
SCIENCE.
[/quote]

She blinded me with it.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x11lvw_thomas-dolby-she-blinded-me-with-sc_music#.UZUOwrW1F8E
Message: Posted by: Pakar Ilusi (May 16, 2013 12:27PM)
General Zods and Megatrons I think most of them are out there.

Are we REALLY ready to defend ourselves?
Message: Posted by: tommy (May 16, 2013 01:01PM)
Where is the planet Fetus?
Message: Posted by: Pakar Ilusi (May 16, 2013 01:03PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-16 14:01, tommy wrote:
Where is the planet Fetus?
[/quote]

Near Uranus. ;)
Message: Posted by: EsnRedshirt (May 16, 2013 01:30PM)
Pakar- if aliens arrived with hostile intent, we'd be dead. Any race that can travel faster than the speed of light has so far exceded our grasp of physics we'd have no chance to survive.

Our only hope during intelligent extraterrestrial contact would be that they were not, in fact, hostile.

Aside to Danny- I've done some reading on various sites, as a skeptic. In order to believe the current theories concerning alien contact, you'd need to believe seven impossible things before breakfast. They're interesting impossible things, as they neatly explain all the gaps in our scientific knowledge, but they rapidly go from merely implausible (electrogravitics) to ridiculous (telepathy) to tin-foil hat conspiracy (i.e. "They Live".)
But, you should be awarefnord-

-fnordJust saying.
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (May 16, 2013 01:40PM)
EsnRedshirt-

While I agree with you in general, I'm surprised that you refer to telepathy as "ridiculous." Whether or not it has been proven to naturally exist in humans is beside the point - it's already been demonstrated that implanted devices can effectively allow for telepathy, etc.
Message: Posted by: EsnRedshirt (May 16, 2013 02:05PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-16 14:40, mastermindreader wrote:
EsnRedshirt-

While I agree with you in general, I'm surprised that you refer to telepathy as "ridiculous." Whether or not it has been proven to naturally exist in humans is beside the point - it's already been demonstrated that implanted devices can effectively allow for telepathy, etc.
[/quote]Yes, but instantaneous FTL telepathy/data transmission? Besides, the various literature indicates it's done without implants, so...
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (May 16, 2013 02:10PM)
Yes, instantaneous transmission presents insurmountable problems.

I'd hesitate, though, to refer to writings purporting to know how aliens communicate as being "literature."

:eek:
Message: Posted by: Pakar Ilusi (May 16, 2013 02:24PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-16 14:30, EsnRedshirt wrote:
Pakar- if aliens arrived with hostile intent, we'd be dead. Any race that can travel faster than the speed of light has so far exceded our grasp of physics we'd have no chance to survive.

Our only hope during intelligent extraterrestrial contact would be that they were not, in fact, hostile.

[/quote]

And that was the point I was getting at. ;)

General Zod and Megatron are both 'evil' aliens.
Message: Posted by: landmark (May 16, 2013 03:01PM)
[quote]what we found on Mars makes the Moon PALE in comparison! [/quote]

1,000,000,000,000 x 0 = 0.
Message: Posted by: Mehtas (May 16, 2013 03:25PM)
[quote]

On 2013-05-16 11:29, Dougini wrote:

what we found on Mars makes the Moon PALE in comparison!

[/quote]


A lot of potholes ????????
Message: Posted by: silvercup (May 16, 2013 03:44PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-16 12:09, Dannydoyle wrote:
Please study the science of space travel.
[/quote]

Known space travel.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 16, 2013 04:38PM)
Yes Redshirt.
Message: Posted by: R.S. (May 16, 2013 06:39PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-16 11:29, Dougini wrote:
No doubt we are not alone. This thing is so insignificant to what is out there. If the NASA liars would tell us the truth about what we found on the Moon and Mars...there would be none of this speculation.

My friend who is a Lt. Col. (ret), said what we found on Mars makes the Moon PALE in comparison! And they LIE to us and keep us in the dark! No wonder there are such conspiracy theories. Why can't they just tell us the truth?

Doug
[/quote]

Sounds like a conclusion in search of evidence. How do you know we are not alone? What makes you think that NASA is lying about anything? What could possibly be on the Moon anyway? It's a desolate, lifeless piece of rock - one of billions in our solar system alone.


Ron
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (May 16, 2013 06:58PM)
I know a retired Lt. Colonel who believes he's seen chupacabras and Bigfoot.
Message: Posted by: kambiz (May 16, 2013 07:01PM)
Steven Greer is an interesting man, what's more interesting to me is that he's a practicing Bahai. Many friends I have in Perth know him quite well and vouch to his character. My friends say he is legitimately convinced that extra-terrestrial life has been encountered.

Maybe he's loopy, maybe he's not, but time will tell.

The law of probabilities dictates that we are close to definitely not alone, but again, if you want convincing evidence, time will tell

......in the meantime, go hug your mum, your wife, your kids, a random stranger.....you will be the cause of making their day as a result :)

Kam
Message: Posted by: R.S. (May 16, 2013 07:15PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-16 12:32, irossall wrote:
[quote]

If the Government is not keeping secrets about Mars, why don't we get to see ALL the photo's of Mars. Cydonia is the most interesting part of Mars, why don't we go there and explore. At least if the pyramids, walls and face are only our imaginations, NASA could stop or at least put a dent in some of the "cover up" stories we keep hearing. It was only a few years ago that most people never heard of HAARP. It wasn't until photo's were shown to the Government that they finaly came up with a story instead of a denial.
Don't believe everything any side tells you. Question the authorities and keep an open mind.
Iven :patty:
[/quote]

Cydonia is just another example of pareidolia - our tendency to see patterns (particularly faces) in images. Look over the thousands of photos of the Moonscape, or of the Mars-scape, and you'll sooner or later see something that resembles dogs, birds, human feet, Richard Nixon... you name it. Besides, most mountains as seen from above can't help but have a vague resemblance to a head facing upwards - you have the general outline of a head and a nose-like protrusion for starters. Then with the right shadows and viewing angle... voila! Pareidolia also accounts for Jesus' appearance on toast. Or the devil in the smoke of the WTC fire of 9/11. Your brain can't help but to assign agenticity to face-resembling patterns. This behavior was probably essential from an evolutionary perspective, as dismissing that tiger in the tall grass, or the warrior from the opposing tribe, would likely get you killed. Better to see faces where there are none than to see none where there is danger.

But if you still insist that aliens constructed a face on Mars, doesn't it seem odd that they would go to all that trouble, and then leave absolutely no other trace of their existence? No bustling cities, no airports, no houses, no other monuments, no signs of activity whatsoever?


Ron
Message: Posted by: R.S. (May 16, 2013 07:28PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-16 19:58, mastermindreader wrote:
I know a retired Lt. Colonel who believes he's seen chupacabras and Bigfoot.
[/quote]

Hanging out together?

Ron
:)
Message: Posted by: Pakar Ilusi (May 17, 2013 02:24AM)
I wish them aliens would just come already.

Land in front of the UN.

That'd be fun. :ohyes:
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 17, 2013 02:41AM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-16 16:44, silvercup wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-05-16 12:09, Dannydoyle wrote:
Please study the science of space travel.
[/quote]

Known space travel.
[/quote]

Yea the science of physics is known as physics.
Message: Posted by: irossall (May 17, 2013 05:26AM)
In answer to Ron's statement:

"But if you still insist that aliens constructed a face on Mars, doesn't it seem odd that they would go to all that trouble, and then leave absolutely no other trace of their existence? No bustling cities, no airports, no houses, no other monuments, no signs of activity whatsoever?"


Do you have "pareidolia" of the ears? When did I ever insist or even state that aliens did anything or even exsist? You are filling in gaps that don't exsist.

There are what appears to be pyramids and a walled in "city" with what looks like buildings.

All I did say is, NASA should land at Cydonia in order to prove or disprove the stories that are out there. Richard Hoagland has asked the people at NASA to do just that. The stories of Cydonia could finaly be put to rest.
Iven :patty:
Message: Posted by: R.S. (May 17, 2013 05:41AM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-17 06:26, irossall wrote:
In answer to Ron's statement:

"But if you still insist that aliens constructed a face on Mars, doesn't it seem odd that they would go to all that trouble, and then leave absolutely no other trace of their existence? No bustling cities, no airports, no houses, no other monuments, no signs of activity whatsoever?"


Do you have "pareidolia" of the ears? When did I ever insist or even state that aliens did anything or even exsist? You are filling in gaps that don't exsist.

There are what appears to be pyramids and a walled in "city" with what looks like buildings.

All I did say is, NASA should land at Cydonia in order to prove or disprove the stories that are out there. Richard Hoagland has asked the people at NASA to do just that. The stories of Cydonia could finaly be put to rest.
Iven :patty:
[/quote]

Sorry, I didn't mean you as in YOU personally, I meant you in general. :)

Why should the burden be on NASA to prove or disprove somebody's outlandish theories? If somebody claims that there are pink Unicorns on Saturn's rings should NASA then be obliged to land there in order to prove or disprove that claim? Besides, other photos of Cydonia from different angles have already shown it to be a mountain and nothing else.

Ron
Message: Posted by: irossall (May 17, 2013 05:49AM)
NASA uses our tax dollars so in my mind that makes me the employer of NASA. Pink Unicorns on Saturn's Rings? Let's check it out.

You seem to focus on the "face". I am more interested in the pyramids, wall and what looks like buildings.
All I am saying is let's go check these things out and we can put an end to the stories. Besides, I think the landscape is much more interesting than the area's we have gone to so far.
As a tax payer, I and many, many other tax payers are and have been asking NASA for a long time to please go to Cydonia and prove once and for all if this is imagination or reality. I don't think that is asking too much, since we help to fund NASA and keep them employed.
Iven :patty:
Message: Posted by: R.S. (May 17, 2013 05:54AM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-17 06:49, irossall wrote:
NASA uses our tax dollars so in my mind that makes me the employer of NASA. Pink Unicorns on Saturn's Rings? Let's check it out.

You seem to focus on the "face". I am more interested in the pyramids, wall and what looks like buildings.
All I am saying is let's go check these things out and we can put an end to the stories. Besides, I think the landscape is much more interesting than the area's we have gone to so far.
As a tax payer, I and many, many other tax payers are and have been asking NASA for a long time to please go to Cydonia and prove once and for all if this is imagination or reality. I don't think that is asking too much, since we help to fund NASA and keep them employed.
Iven :patty:
[/quote]

Can you point me to the best evidence there is for these "walls, pyramids, and buildings"?


Ron
Message: Posted by: Dougini (May 17, 2013 10:22AM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-17 06:54, R.S. wrote:
Can you point me to the best evidence there is for these "walls, pyramids, and buildings"?
[/quote]

Ron, that's the trouble. I'm gonna get in trouble here if I'm not careful. Yeah. I don't care who believes what. Most of you would not believe it anyway. Things so outlandish, as to be...beyond science fiction.

One of the retired officers I know worked at NASA. I won't get into it, but know that yes, they found plenty on the moon and Mars to keep us busy for a century! Remember I said this: there will come a day soon, where it will all be revealed.

They can't hide this much longer. Just the back side and south pole of the moon have some pretty frightening artifacts. One such artifact was nicknamed The Golden Dragon. If you want, and you have an open mind, I suggest you go here and be amazed:

http://ufosightingshotspot.blogspot.com/2013/04/the-golden-dragon-alien-machine-and.html

I'm not a conspiracy-theory fan. I don't buy into most of the crap out there. There is a lot. And for you non-believers, I don't mind if you laugh and poke fun at me. I know what I know. I just hope you remember all this when the time comes. I mean that I wasn't a complete crack-pot. Just partial! LOL!

Doug
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 17, 2013 10:45AM)
Why is it always going to happen and never has happened? Always on the come. Always a mysterious high placed know it all who won't be identified?

Ian you are not the employer of NASA any more than you are cops. Do you deceide which beat they walk? Please stop. The idea that you are somehow entitled to deceide what does and does not get spent is silly. It isn't their job to get rid of conspiracy theories. It is our job not to listen to them.

Doug...wow. Just wow. In the physical universe we inhabit currently things are what they are. Pseudo science in which you assume the conclusion is not proof.
Message: Posted by: silvercup (May 17, 2013 11:05AM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-17 03:41, Dannydoyle wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-05-16 16:44, silvercup wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-05-16 12:09, Dannydoyle wrote:
Please study the science of space travel.
[/quote]

Known space travel.
[/quote]

Yea the science of physics is known as physics.
[/quote]

Indeed it is. Additionally it is widely known that we here on Earth have all the answers that apply to physics. The book has been written and it is complete in every way. Nothing more to learn there is.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 17, 2013 11:09AM)
Great use of sarcasm to cover not having a point to make.
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (May 17, 2013 12:14PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-16 20:28, R.S. wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-05-16 19:58, mastermindreader wrote:
I know a retired Lt. Colonel who believes he's seen chupacabras and Bigfoot.
[/quote]

Hanging out together?

Ron
:)
[/quote]

Of course! He's a lot of fun - especially when he gets going about how the Irish leprechauns built Stonehenge just to confuse the English.
Message: Posted by: Dougini (May 17, 2013 04:40PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-17 11:45, Dannydoyle wrote:
Doug...wow. Just wow. In the physical universe we inhabit currently things are what they are. Pseudo science in which you assume the conclusion, is not proof.
[/quote]

True. Things are what they are. I'm very selective in what I take as Truth. Let's just say I've seen things first-hand. Things I would hesitate to tell people. It's OK. I have a very open mind. I didn't used to. Then something happened that changed EVERYTHING. And NO one can help me. This one is my own nightmare.

However, life goes on. Can't sit around being scared of the unknown. It's made me curious. What is REALLY out there? Then I find what I believe is proof that NASA not only is lying to us about the Moon and Mars. The web runs deep. It is multi-national. Again, not trying to argue the point Danny. I am saying there is more, much more, than they are telling us. The colonel says it has to be that way.

Doug
Message: Posted by: R.S. (May 17, 2013 06:53PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-17 11:22, Dougini wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-05-17 06:54, R.S. wrote:
Can you point me to the best evidence there is for these "walls, pyramids, and buildings"?
[/quote]

Ron, that's the trouble. I'm gonna get in trouble here if I'm not careful. Yeah. I don't care who believes what. Most of you would not believe it anyway. Things so outlandish, as to be...beyond science fiction.

One of the retired officers I know worked at NASA. I won't get into it, but know that yes, they found plenty on the moon and Mars to keep us busy for a century! Remember I said this: there will come a day soon, where it will all be revealed.

They can't hide this much longer. Just the back side and south pole of the moon have some pretty frightening artifacts. One such artifact was nicknamed The Golden Dragon. If you want, and you have an open mind, I suggest you go here and be amazed:

http://ufosightingshotspot.blogspot.com/2013/04/the-golden-dragon-alien-machine-and.html

I'm not a conspiracy-theory fan. I don't buy into most of the crap out there. There is a lot. And for you non-believers, I don't mind if you laugh and poke fun at me. I know what I know. I just hope you remember all this when the time comes. I mean that I wasn't a complete crack-pot. Just partial! LOL!

Doug
[/quote]

Hi Doug,

Remember, fantastic claims require fantastic evidence. Not anecdotes. And consider this... is it more likely that humans, who are extremely prone to both self deception and to outright fraud, have concocted (or have innocently advanced) a baseless story, OR that a heretofore unknown alien race far in advance of our own has traversed the solar system/galaxy/universe and selected 2 nearby rocks out of quadrillions of destinations in the universe to leave "artifacts"? Which of those is more LIKELY?

The link that you posted is for a 1 hour and 34 minute video. Sorry, but I doubt many people have that much time to invest in investigating outlandish claims. Give us the short version... what exactly did they find on Mars or on the Moon? And who is "they" - the Apollo astronauts? Astronomers? The Russians? And why would such significant findings be kept secret anyway? Back in 1996 when they thought that a Mars meteorite might harbor life, it was all over the news, remember?

For the record, I personally believe the chances are good that there is some form of life somewhere in the vast universe. And I would welcome discovery of such life forms. However, VISITATION by intelligent life forms is a whole different ball game, and so far, there is no good evidence to support such claims.


Ron
:)
Message: Posted by: R.S. (May 17, 2013 06:56PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-17 13:14, mastermindreader wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-05-16 20:28, R.S. wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-05-16 19:58, mastermindreader wrote:
I know a retired Lt. Colonel who believes he's seen chupacabras and Bigfoot.
[/quote]

Hanging out together?

Ron
:)
[/quote]

Of course! He's a lot of fun - especially when he gets going about how the Irish leprechauns built Stonehenge just to confuse the English.
[/quote]

I meant Bigfoot and chupacabras - are THEY hanging out together. :)

Ron
Message: Posted by: R.S. (May 17, 2013 06:57PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-17 17:40, Dougini wrote:
Then something happened that changed EVERYTHING. And NO one can help me. This one is my own nightmare.

Doug
[/quote]

What was it that happened?

Ron
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (May 17, 2013 08:18PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-17 19:56, R.S. wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-05-17 13:14, mastermindreader wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-05-16 20:28, R.S. wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-05-16 19:58, mastermindreader wrote:
I know a retired Lt. Colonel who believes he's seen chupacabras and Bigfoot.
[/quote]

Hanging out together?

Ron
:)
[/quote]

Of course! He's a lot of fun - especially when he gets going about how the Irish leprechauns built Stonehenge just to confuse the English.
[/quote]

I meant Bigfoot and chupacabras - are THEY hanging out together. :)

Ron
[/quote]

Of course not, silly. Everyone knows that Bigfoots eat chupacabras. The government knows all about these things AND MANY MORE, but they dare not let us know the true facts. I fear I will get in serious trouble, though, if I speak any more about this! As Criswell said, in the astounding documentary, "Plan Nine from Outer Space," our minds are not ready to comprehend the horrible truth.
Message: Posted by: acesover (May 17, 2013 08:41PM)
OK. Some here are not religious and some are. Having said that many subscribe to The Big Bang Theory. OK here we go.

If you are not religious and subscribe to the "Big Bang Theory" why do you find it difficult to believe that there is other life forms out there as intelligent as ours and some much more intelligent? I am just asking this as a question not a debate because as most here know I am religious and believe in what many call fairy tales and really do not want to turn this discussion into a religious debate. So again just asking if one believes in no Creator and lets assume that is true, and we are one big accident. Why should there not be a lot more life forms around the galaxy in different states of evolution? By that I mean much more advanced and some much more backward. :confused: Just asking.

Interesting thread.
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (May 17, 2013 08:52PM)
I think most scientists would agree that it is highly probably that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe.

So I don't think that being religious or not has anything to do with whether someone believes that extraterrestrial intelligent life probably exists.

The debate here is whether, given the vast distances in space, we have ever been visited by aliens. That's a different argument entirely.
Message: Posted by: Woland (May 17, 2013 09:03PM)
[quote]Steven Greer is an interesting man, what's more interesting to me is that he's a practicing Bahai. [/quote]

That settles it.
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (May 17, 2013 09:09PM)
Aceover-

Slightly off topic, but it should be noted that the Catholic Church has no problem with evolution or the Big Bang theory. "Let there be light" and BANG, there was light. Sounds consistent to me.
Message: Posted by: acesover (May 17, 2013 10:15PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-17 22:09, mastermindreader wrote:
Aceover-

Slightly off topic, but it should be noted that the Catholic Church has no problem with evolution or the Big Bang theory. "Let there be light" and BANG, there was light. Sounds consistent to me.
[/quote]

Yes. I know that the church does not discount the big bang theory and or evolution as a possibility. I myself believe that evolution is a very distinct possibility where after much evolution...well the Creator stepped in and said time for souls and all that religious stuff. Lets keep it light. :)

But not going religious on this because we all know what happens then. I wondered why several here did not think that there was any other life out there. However on closer reading I don't really think anyone said that. Just that they don't believe in some of the theories proposed here.
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (May 17, 2013 10:51PM)
Yep. That's the way I read it, too.
Message: Posted by: rockwall (May 18, 2013 08:05AM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-17 21:18, mastermindreader wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-05-17 19:56, R.S. wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-05-17 13:14, mastermindreader wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-05-16 20:28, R.S. wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-05-16 19:58, mastermindreader wrote:
I know a retired Lt. Colonel who believes he's seen chupacabras and Bigfoot.
[/quote]

Hanging out together?

Ron
:)
[/quote]

Of course! He's a lot of fun - especially when he gets going about how the Irish leprechauns built Stonehenge just to confuse the English.
[/quote]

I meant Bigfoot and chupacabras - are THEY hanging out together. :)

Ron
[/quote]

Of course not, silly. Everyone knows that Bigfoots eat chupacabras. The government knows all about these things AND MANY MORE, but they dare not let us know the true facts. I fear I will get in serious trouble, though, if I speak any more about this! As Criswell said, in the astounding documentary, "Plan Nine from Outer Space," our minds are not ready to comprehend the horrible truth.
[/quote]

I'm going to start calling you Bobini! LOL
Message: Posted by: R.S. (May 18, 2013 08:06AM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-17 23:15, acesover wrote:
I myself believe that evolution is a very distinct possibility where after much evolution...well the Creator stepped in and said time for souls and all that religious stuff.
[/quote]

Actually, evolution is more than a distinct possibility. It is an established fact.


Ron
Message: Posted by: R.S. (May 18, 2013 09:13AM)
To keep things in perspective, here is a (fairly close) approximation of the scale of the universe. I've actually done this (because I have no life) and it's a lot of fun to amaze your friends. Take an object, say a softball, and put it in one corner of your house. The softball represents the Sun. Now, measure a distance of about 31 feet from the softball. At the 31 foot distance, place a (tiny) pinhead. The pinhead represents the earth. You now have a sense of the sizes and scales of the Earth/Sun relationship.

The closest star to our Sun is Proxima Centauri, at a distance of 4.2 light years (a light year is about 6 TRILLION miles). So where would we have to place a second softball to represent Proxima Centauri? The answer is that it would have to be about 1,515 miles away!! I live in central CT, so my Proxima Centauri softball would have to be located in Kansas City! And that's the CLOSEST star to our Sun! Our Sun (a softball) in one corner of my house, the Earth (a pinhead) stuck in my bookcase about 31 feet away, and the next closest softball sized star in Kansas City! And with nothing but a cold, dark, desolate void between them. I often try to imagine a tiny, imperceptibly small vessel leaving that pinhead Earth and trying to navigate it's way to the Proxima Centauri softball 1,515 miles away. On that scale, how long would it take to get there? What resources would that tiny vessel need to bring for the journey? How would it stay on course? The Voyager missions that we launched in the 1970s would by now just have made it to the first traffic light on my street!

Of course, we have all been spoiled by Hollywood. Most people believe the universe to be more within our grasp than it actually is. The reality of immense distances, timescales, and quintillions of objects renders our little corner of the solar system more insignificant than most people would like to believe. And it would be hubris to believe that we are so special that we not only have caught the attention of an intelligent alien race, but that we are worth a massive investment in their time, technology, and resources to come here and then to stealthily leave nothing more than ambiguous clues of their existence and return back to their home planet. Granted, the trip might not be impossible (assuming greatly advanced technology), but under any measure, it's certainly still incredibly daunting. And it begs the question, what's to gain on the part of these (advanced) aliens?


Ron
Message: Posted by: w_s_anderson (May 18, 2013 09:27AM)
Very cool post Ron! I've never thought about the distances in that perspective before.
Message: Posted by: Magnus Eisengrim (May 18, 2013 10:53AM)
Nice posts, Ron.

More to the point, why would aliens be like us in any way? There's no reason to suppose that their evolutionary history would be anything like ours, so why would we expect life on other planets to be similar to life on earth?

We should expect alien life to eat, breathe and excrete, I suppose. Some of it should move--so legs or fins of some sort are likely out there. But after that, who knows?

OTOH Demi Moore is from Roswell, NM. She somewhat resembles us, but there are a few other-worldly features as well...
Message: Posted by: R.S. (May 18, 2013 12:23PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-18 11:53, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
Nice posts, Ron.

More to the point, why would aliens be like us in any way? There's no reason to suppose that their evolutionary history would be anything like ours, so why would we expect life on other planets to be similar to life on earth?

We should expect alien life to eat, breathe and excrete, I suppose. Some of it should move--so legs or fins of some sort are likely out there. But after that, who knows?

OTOH Demi Moore is from Roswell, NM. She somewhat resembles us, but there are a few other-worldly features as well...
[/quote]

Exactly. Even our own planet has wildly diverse species - from lobsters, to bees, to kangaroos, to whales, to chickens, to humans. And on and on. To expect aliens to resemble Keanu Reeves in The Day The Earth Stood Still is a stretch. Although highly advanced aliens would necessarily require some basic features in order to move about and manipulate their environment - legs and arms/hands I suppose. But then again, of the millions of species of life on Earth just ONE has the ability to construct (rudimentary) space faring vehicles.

Moreover, it's still no guarantee that technologically advanced and highly intelligent aliens (if they exist somewhere) would ever even know about us. Our earliest radio transmissions announcing our presence have not had enough time yet to reach even a tenth OF A TENTH of the way to the CENTER of our own galaxy, let alone to propagate to any of the other billions of galaxies outside of the Milky Way. And even if they did somehow know about us, perhaps they just aren't motivated to come here (again, if it's even possible given the mind-numbing distances). They may have a evolved a self sufficient and totally cooperative society and may have no need, desire, or interest in other beings. In fact, they may have come to realize there's an inherent danger in reaching out to unknown beings. The Earth is a good example of that. We have a long history of rival nations invading and conquering other nations. And that's our own species! Silence may be the best policy in the universe at large.

Yes, I've often wondered about Demi Moore. :)


Ron
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (May 18, 2013 12:43PM)
Keanu Reeves as Klaatu was completely inaccurate and very upsetting to all of us who know that aliens look like Michael Rennie.
Message: Posted by: rockwall (May 18, 2013 12:45PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-18 10:13, R.S. wrote:
To keep things in perspective, here is a (fairly close) approximation of the scale of the universe. I've actually done this (because I have no life) and it's a lot of fun to amaze your friends. Take an object, say a softball, and put it in one corner of your house. The softball represents the Sun. Now, measure a distance of about 31 feet from the softball. At the 31 foot distance, place a (tiny) pinhead. The pinhead represents the earth. You now have a sense of the sizes and scales of the Earth/Sun relationship.

The closest star to our Sun is Proxima Centauri, at a distance of 4.2 light years (a light year is about 6 TRILLION miles). So where would we have to place a second softball to represent Proxima Centauri? The answer is that it would have to be about 1,515 miles away!! I live in central CT, so my Proxima Centauri softball would have to be located in Kansas City! And that's the CLOSEST star to our Sun! Our Sun (a softball) in one corner of my house, the Earth (a pinhead) stuck in my bookcase about 31 feet away, and the next closest softball sized star in Kansas City! And with nothing but a cold, dark, desolate void between them. I often try to imagine a tiny, imperceptibly small vessel leaving that pinhead Earth and trying to navigate it's way to the Proxima Centauri softball 1,515 miles away. On that scale, how long would it take to get there? What resources would that tiny vessel need to bring for the journey? How would it stay on course? The Voyager missions that we launched in the 1970s would by now just have made it to the first traffic light on my street!

Of course, we have all been spoiled by Hollywood. Most people believe the universe to be more within our grasp than it actually is. The reality of immense distances, timescales, and quintillions of objects renders our little corner of the solar system more insignificant than most people would like to believe. And it would be hubris to believe that we are so special that we not only have caught the attention of an intelligent alien race, but that we are worth a massive investment in their time, technology, and resources to come here and then to stealthily leave nothing more than ambiguous clues of their existence and return back to their home planet. Granted, the trip might not be impossible (assuming greatly advanced technology), but under any measure, it's certainly still incredibly daunting. And it begs the question, what's to gain on the part of these (advanced) aliens?


Ron
[/quote]

Well shoot. If it's only 1,515 miles away, it shouldn't be THAT hard to travel between them! :)
Message: Posted by: Dougini (May 18, 2013 03:25PM)
Great post Ron! I like the analogy. Without going into too much detail, a straight line is NOT the shortest distance between two points. We have been thinking in a linear fashion. We don't think of Gravity as a factor.

Regardless. When they are revealed it will be too late anyway. There will always be non-believers. That's why I'm not too concerned. No. I have no proof. I know what I know. Maybe I'm completely nuts, and need to be locked up...I don't know... :rolleyes:
Message: Posted by: R.S. (May 18, 2013 04:45PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-18 13:45, rockwall wrote:
Well shoot. If it's only 1,515 miles away, it shouldn't be THAT hard to travel between them! :)
[/quote]

LOL! Good one Rockwall. :)

Ron
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 18, 2013 05:24PM)
I was about to post one of those analogies thanks Ron.

Evolut is a fact? Not rally. In the micro yea but the macro nobody can say fact. I am not sayi g I don't believe mi d you. Just tdying to be as clear as possible.

Doug you are talking Einstein Rosen stuff and warping space and what not. Maybe but doubtful.

If you are talking faster than light travel (Which I doubt because of your linear reference.) then consider the closer you get to light speed the more energy it takes to accelerate. To accelerate the space shuttle to light speed would take an infinite amount of fuel. Certainly you see the problem there.
Message: Posted by: R.S. (May 18, 2013 05:28PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-18 16:25, Dougini wrote:
Great post Ron! I like the analogy. Without going into too much detail, a straight line is NOT the shortest distance between two points. We have been thinking in a linear fashion. We don't think of Gravity as a factor.

Regardless. When they are revealed it will be too late anyway. There will always be non-believers. That's why I'm not too concerned. No. I have no proof. I know what I know. Maybe I'm completely nuts, and need to be locked up...I don't know... :rolleyes:
[/quote]


Hi Doug,

Yes, wormholes (or similar constructs) would solve the distance problem. The problem is, wormholes are highly speculative and there is no evidence for them. And even if there were wormholes, you would have the difficulty of tailoring them for use. And again, even highly advanced aliens who may have perfected wormhole travel would still have to know about us in order to visit. That's a biggie right there. Furthermore, they would need incentive to visit once they knew of us. I doubt that playing hide and seek with us, or drawing circles in crops, or mutilating a few cattle is the ultimate payoff for their mastering the physics of wormholes/gravity.

Too late for what???

You say you have no proof. Well you know, proof is the thing really. Proof would help your cause here. If someone claimed to be able leap off of tall buildings and fly unaided like Superman, I'm sure you would be skeptical and would demand proof, right? You wouldn't just take their word for such a fantastic claim, would you? We're all skeptics about some things. We just need to be consistent in applying skepticism across the board.

PS - Is your final reveal that you are from Tau Ceti?

Ron
:)
Message: Posted by: R.S. (May 18, 2013 05:33PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-18 18:24, Dannydoyle wrote:
I was about to post one of those analogies thanks Ron.

Evolut is a fact? Not rally. In the micro yea but the macro nobody can say fact. I am not sayi g I don't believe mi d you. Just tdying to be as clear as possible.

Doug you are talking Einstein Rosen stuff and warping space and what not. Maybe but doubtful.

If you are talking faster than light travel (Which I doubt because of your linear reference.) then consider the closer you get to light speed the more energy it takes to accelerate. To accelerate the space shuttle to light speed would take an infinite amount of fuel. Certainly you see the problem there.
[/quote]

You're welcome Danny.

Yes, evolution is a fact. In fact, it's a THEORY! And in science, Theories rank even higher than facts.

Good point about the problem of accelerating to light speed.

Ron
:)
Message: Posted by: rockwall (May 18, 2013 09:09PM)
http://trailers.apple.com/trailers/magnolia/europareport/

EUROPA REPORT follows a contemporary mission to Jupiter's moon Europa to investigate the possible existence of alien life within our solar system. When unmanned probes suggest that a hidden ocean could exist underneath Europa's icy surface and may contain single-celled life, Europa Ventures, a privately funded space exploration company, sends six of the best astronauts from around the world to confirm the data and explore the revolutionary discoveries that may lie in the Europan ocean. After a near-catastrophic technical failure that leads to loss of communication with Earth and the tragic death of a crewmember, the surviving astronauts must overcome the psychological and physical toll of deep space travel, and survive a discovery on Europa more profound than they had ever imagined
Message: Posted by: magic (May 19, 2013 05:31AM)
[quote]

On 2013-05-18 18:24, Dannydoyle wrote:

To accelerate the space shuttle to light speed would take an infinite amount of fuel. Certainly you see the problem there.

[/quote]

...and not to forget the the exotic "energy" needed to create the warp bubble to hold a ship together, so even if you had infinite amount of fuel, without the warp bubble, faster than light travel is not possible.

Above are just few of very highly advanced technologies needed for humans to ever venture our galaxy and beyond.

Like they said, its nice to have an open mind but you should not keep it sooo open that your brain falls out.
Message: Posted by: landmark (May 19, 2013 06:25AM)
[quote]And again, even highly advanced aliens who may have perfected wormhole travel would still have to know about us in order to visit. That's a biggie right there. [/quote]

I don't really think that's a problem. A block away from me is a run-down pizza joint that advertises itself as "World-Famous." News travels fast evidently.
Message: Posted by: R.S. (May 19, 2013 07:44AM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-19 07:25, landmark wrote:
[quote]And again, even highly advanced aliens who may have perfected wormhole travel would still have to know about us in order to visit. That's a biggie right there. [/quote]

I don't really think that's a problem. A block away from me is a run-down pizza joint that advertises itself as "World-Famous." News travels fast evidently.
[/quote]

That's true, landmark. But then again, how come every Miss Universe contestant we've ever had was from Earth??

Ron
Message: Posted by: Mehtas (May 19, 2013 07:58AM)
[quote]

On 2013-05-19 08:44, R.S. wrote:

That's true, landmark. But then again, how come every Miss Universe contestant we've ever had was from Earth ??

[/quote]


Maybe the aliens haven't taken part becouse they think its all a fix :)
Message: Posted by: Woland (May 19, 2013 08:13AM)
[quote] But then again, how come every Miss Universe contestant we've ever had was from Earth?? [/quote]

Are you sure?
Message: Posted by: tommy (May 19, 2013 08:28AM)
Well they have to show their birth certificate, which is why the president will never win it.
Message: Posted by: Dougini (May 19, 2013 08:46AM)
Excellent point about reaching light speed. The biggest problem is, time moves at the speed of light. When you reach light speed, time stops altogether! Not a good way to travel. There's this "infinite density" thing as well, but I won't go into that.

I don't want to get all religious on you, but have you heard of The Watchers?
Message: Posted by: rockwall (May 19, 2013 12:50PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-19 09:46, Dougini wrote:
Excellent point about reaching light speed. The biggest problem is, time moves at the speed of light. When you reach light speed, time stops altogether! Not a good way to travel. There's this "infinite density" thing as well, but I won't go into that.

I don't want to get all religious on you, but have you heard of The Watchers?
[/quote]

Of COURSE I have! They warned us about Galactus back in the 60's. (And broke their rule about only watching by telling Reed where to find a weapon to stop Galactus.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watcher_(comics)
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 19, 2013 06:04PM)
Totally took my what if reference.
Message: Posted by: acesover (May 19, 2013 07:24PM)
I am just wondering here and perhaps I missed something. But why do these life forms we are talking about have to be from another galaxy? I mean why can't they be a lot closer? Like right here in our own galaxy. They can still be very hard to find and if they are so clever. I am sure they can hide from us and maybe screw up sometimes and show themselves accidently (Roswell etc.). :) They don't have to come from another galaxy. Therefore making the time distance thing moot. Cripes we are still finding planets in our own galaxy. Just saying that these life forms we are talking about cold be much closer than the distances we are discussing. Are we even sue there is no life on any of the planets that we know of for a long time, like Venus or Neptune or Saturn to name a few?

It really does not make any difference how close the nearest star is from our sun. Does it? I mean if so why?
Message: Posted by: Pakar Ilusi (May 19, 2013 07:34PM)
I say they're from Uranus. :ohyes:
Message: Posted by: Dougini (May 19, 2013 07:37PM)
Good point, Aces! :) Supposedly some come from Zeta II Reticuli and another comes from Barnard's Star, but regardless. Right here in our own solar system is proof! I mean who built the gigantic machine that sits on the edge of the Moon's Zeeman Crater?? I got an uncensored pic of that machine. I'll attach it here if I can.

OK, it's there. Now, wait'll I tell you how big this is:

35 miles long end to end.
13.5 miles tall at the tallest point
3.5 miles thick

Now. I don't believe that's one of ours. Caterpillar has not reached that stage yet. Needless to say, I am pretty impressed.

Doug
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 19, 2013 07:43PM)
Do you fully understand just how big our own galaxy actually is?

Certainly you do not mean to imply we have a planet full of advanced enough life to visit us without our knowing for all this time and we just haven't seen them yet?
Message: Posted by: Pakar Ilusi (May 19, 2013 07:49PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-19 20:43, Dannydoyle wrote:
Do you fully understand just how big our own galaxy actually is?

Certainly you do not mean to imply we have a planet full of advanced enough life to visit us without our knowing for all this time and we just haven't seen them yet?
[/quote]

But we wouldn't right?

If they're really really much more advanced than us, we wouldn't see them...

They'd have like cloaking devices and all that invisibility stuff... :P

Except for the few accidents.

That's the theory they always tell me.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 19, 2013 07:51PM)
Fantastic how that theory allows to disregard science as well.
Message: Posted by: acesover (May 19, 2013 07:54PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-19 20:34, Pakar Ilusi wrote:
I say they're from Uranus. :ohyes:
[/quote]

Ha, ha. :)
Message: Posted by: Pakar Ilusi (May 19, 2013 08:00PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-19 20:51, Dannydoyle wrote:
Fantastic how that theory allows to disregard science as well.
[/quote]

Of course the whole thing disregards science. Hey, if they can die for a Sphagetti Monster you know... ;)

What's aliens?

[quote]
On 2013-05-19 20:54, acesover wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-05-19 20:34, Pakar Ilusi wrote:
I say they're from Uranus. :ohyes:
[/quote]

Ha, ha. :)
[/quote]

;)
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (May 19, 2013 08:03PM)
Some insight into the nature of photographs like this:

http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/misc/hoagland/artifacts.html
Message: Posted by: acesover (May 19, 2013 08:06PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-19 20:49, Pakar Ilusi wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-05-19 20:43, Dannydoyle wrote:
Do you fully understand just how big our own galaxy actually is?

Certainly you do not mean to imply we have a planet full of advanced enough life to visit us without our knowing for all this time and we just haven't seen them yet?
[/quote]

But we wouldn't right?

If they're really really much more advanced than us, we wouldn't see them...

They'd have like cloaking devices and all that invisibility stuff... :P

Except for the few accidents.

That's the theory they always tell me.
[/quote]

Suppose this was 50 years ago. And suppose we were flying over the deepest part of Africa which has yet to be explored. But there are people living there. Of course they are backward. Now lets suppose our plane develops engine problems or runs out of fuel because someone forgot to fill up because he was out partying the night before. Suppose we crash and the primitives find us and our downed plane. Wow. Suppose some of us survive for a while with these natives and we show them our neat stuff. Such as a cigarette lighter or even a book or matches. Lets get crazy we show them a gun. Again WOW. Or suppose we all are killed and they find these things. WOW.

Do you see my point? Accidents happen all the time no matter how advanced some one is or how much they take care. That is why they are called accidents.
Message: Posted by: Pakar Ilusi (May 19, 2013 08:28PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-19 21:06, acesover wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-05-19 20:49, Pakar Ilusi wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-05-19 20:43, Dannydoyle wrote:
Do you fully understand just how big our own galaxy actually is?

Certainly you do not mean to imply we have a planet full of advanced enough life to visit us without our knowing for all this time and we just haven't seen them yet?
[/quote]

But we wouldn't right?

If they're really really much more advanced than us, we wouldn't see them...

They'd have like cloaking devices and all that invisibility stuff... :P

Except for the few accidents.

That's the theory they always tell me.
[/quote]

Suppose this was 50 years ago. And suppose we were flying over the deepest part of Africa which has yet to be explored. But there are people living there. Of course they are backward. Now lets suppose our plane develops engine problems or runs out of fuel because someone forgot to fill up because he was out partying the night before. Suppose we crash and the primitives find us and our downed plane. Wow. Suppose some of us survive for a while with these natives and we show them our neat stuff. Such as a cigarette lighter or even a book or matches. Lets get crazy we show them a gun. Again WOW. Or suppose we all are killed and they find these things. WOW.

Do you see my point? Accidents happen all the time no matter how advanced some one is or how much they take care. That is why they are called accidents.
[/quote]

I got you. ;)

I'm open to Aliens more than The Spaghetti Monster.
Message: Posted by: rockwall (May 19, 2013 11:10PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-19 21:03, mastermindreader wrote:
Some insight into the nature of photographs like this:

http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/misc/hoagland/artifacts.html
[/quote]

If you keep this up, you're going to forfeit your new Bobini name.
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (May 19, 2013 11:31PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-20 00:10, rockwall wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-05-19 21:03, mastermindreader wrote:
Some insight into the nature of photographs like this:

http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/misc/hoagland/artifacts.html
[/quote]

If you keep this up, you're going to forfeit your new Bobini name.
[/quote]

One of the most amusing ironies I've found is that many of the same folks who originally promoted the curious notion that the Apollo moon landings were all faked are the same ones who are now using photos and evidence gained from those missions as "proof" that aliens once were on the moon.
Message: Posted by: kambiz (May 19, 2013 11:58PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-20 00:31, mastermindreader wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-05-20 00:10, rockwall wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-05-19 21:03, mastermindreader wrote:
Some insight into the nature of photographs like this:

http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/misc/hoagland/artifacts.html
[/quote]

If you keep this up, you're going to forfeit your new Bobini name.
[/quote]

One of the most amusing ironies I've found is that many of the same folks who originally promoted the curious notion that the Apollo moon landings were all faked are the same ones who are now using photos and evidence gained from those missions as "proof" that aliens once were on the moon.
[/quote]


LOL too true, too true!!

Kam
Message: Posted by: R.S. (May 20, 2013 05:45AM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-19 20:24, acesover wrote:
I am just wondering here and perhaps I missed something. But why do these life forms we are talking about have to be from another galaxy? I mean why can't they be a lot closer? Like right here in our own galaxy. They can still be very hard to find and if they are so clever. I am sure they can hide from us and maybe screw up sometimes and show themselves accidently (Roswell etc.). :) They don't have to come from another galaxy. Therefore making the time distance thing moot. Cripes we are still finding planets in our own galaxy. Just saying that these life forms we are talking about cold be much closer than the distances we are discussing. Are we even sue there is no life on any of the planets that we know of for a long time, like Venus or Neptune or Saturn to name a few?

It really does not make any difference how close the nearest star is from our sun. Does it? I mean if so why?
[/quote]

As I stated earlier, the CLOSEST star to our Sun (in our own galaxy) is 4.2 light years away (about 25 trillion miles). We are located on the outskirts of the Milky Way and our radio transmissions have only propagated to less than one one-HUNDREDTH of the way to the center of the galaxy. So any intelligent civilizations that are out there must then be 1) monitoring their skies for signs of technology, and 2) must be located inside the very small slice of the galaxy within the radius of our transmissions. And given that those 2 conditions have been met, then they must 3) care enough (and have the ability) to mount a massive time and energy consuming mission to our little corner of the galaxy.

As far as our own Solar system, it's highly unlikely that advanced life forms exist outside of Earth. It seems there are only 2 planets in our solar system which would be conducive to advanced life - Earth and maybe Mars. We've studied Mars exhaustively, and we're still trying to determine if there is intelligent life on Earth. :) The other planets are either too gaseous, too cold, too hot, too susceptible to harmful radiation, etc.

The "hiding" thing I never understood. Why would they have to hide? UFO proponents use that rational in order to explain why there is no good evidence for UFOS. "Why, they're hiding of course!" Sorry, that's a cop out. And besides, there is 1 group of people who are constantly monitoring the skies. They are professionals and they have instruments to help them - they don't rely on eyewitness accounts. They are all the astronomers in the world! And why is it that THEY don't report UFOs?? That's because they know what they're looking at! The UFO reports mainly come from laymen who mistake weather balloons, meteors, aircraft, anomalous clouds, low orbit satellites, Venus, or something else for UFOs. Not to mention the few who actually perpetrate hoaxes.


Ron
Message: Posted by: R.S. (May 20, 2013 05:52AM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-19 21:03, mastermindreader wrote:
Some insight into the nature of photographs like this:

http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/misc/hoagland/artifacts.html
[/quote]

Thank you Bob!

Ron
:)
Message: Posted by: Dougini (May 20, 2013 07:30AM)
This photo I put up is NOT an artifact of photography! Two satellites, a Chinese and an Americam got this same photo. However when the photo was published, the "machine" was blurred out. WHY?

Again, it doesn't matter. Just remember this conversation. Laugh if you want. I'll laugh right along with you! It seems outrageous, ludicrous, and a complete fantasy! I'm not trying to convince you. I'm just putting up the little bit of info I have, for those who have an open mind.

Doug
Message: Posted by: acesover (May 20, 2013 09:09AM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-20 06:45, R.S. wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-05-19 20:24, acesover wrote:
I am just wondering here and perhaps I missed something. But why do these life forms we are talking about have to be from another galaxy? I mean why can't they be a lot closer? Like right here in our own galaxy. They can still be very hard to find and if they are so clever. I am sure they can hide from us and maybe screw up sometimes and show themselves accidently (Roswell etc.). :) They don't have to come from another galaxy. Therefore making the time distance thing moot. Cripes we are still finding planets in our own galaxy. Just saying that these life forms we are talking about cold be much closer than the distances we are discussing. Are we even sue there is no life on any of the planets that we know of for a long time, like Venus or Neptune or Saturn to name a few?

It really does not make any difference how close the nearest star is from our sun. Does it? I mean if so why?
[/quote]

As I stated earlier, the CLOSEST star to our Sun (in our own galaxy) is 4.2 light years away (about 25 trillion miles). We are located on the outskirts of the Milky Way and our radio transmissions have only propagated to less than one one-HUNDREDTH of the way to the center of the galaxy. So any intelligent civilizations that are out there must then be 1) monitoring their skies for signs of technology, and 2) must be located inside the very small slice of the galaxy within the radius of our transmissions. And given that those 2 conditions have been met, then they must 3) care enough (and have the ability) to mount a massive time and energy consuming mission to our little corner of the galaxy.

As far as our own Solar system, it's highly unlikely that advanced life forms exist outside of Earth. It seems there are only 2 planets in our solar system which would be conducive to advanced life - Earth and maybe Mars. We've studied Mars exhaustively, and we're still trying to determine if there is intelligent life on Earth. :) The other planets are either too gaseous, too cold, too hot, too susceptible to harmful radiation, etc.

The "hiding" thing I never understood. Why would they have to hide? UFO proponents use that rational in order to explain why there is no good evidence for UFOS. "Why, they're hiding of course!" Sorry, that's a cop out. And besides, there is 1 group of people who are constantly monitoring the skies. They are professionals and they have instruments to help them - they don't rely on eyewitness accounts. They are all the astronomers in the world! And why is it that THEY don't report UFOs?? That's because they know what they're looking at! The UFO reports mainly come from laymen who mistake weather balloons, meteors, aircraft, anomalous clouds, low orbit satellites, Venus, or something else for UFOs. Not to mention the few who actually perpetrate hoaxes.


Ron
[/quote]

I am not saying there is life other than what is here on earth. Because I don't know. But I do consider this a g reat beer and pretzels topic. However I don't know how you can make a statement like the one you made: "As far as our own Solar system, it's highly unlikely that advanced life forms exist outside of Earth. It seems there are only 2 planets in our solar system which would be conducive to advanced life - Earth and maybe Mars". Now if you added the words "as we know it". I could go along with it. Whatever conditions exist anywhere with evolution why is it not possible for "some sort of life to start" and evolve into who knows what? Again I am not saying life exists elsewhere because as I have stated I really don't know whether it does or not.

I really don't have any idea how much of our own galaxy our astronomers can cover 24/7. But by guess is that it is rather minute considering the vastness we are talking about. Compounded by the fact of observing, finding something as small as a vessel from another planet I believe the chances of this are rather remote if not downright impossible except by chance. Chance caused by as mentioned before an accident.

Again let me say that I am not here saying that other life especially intelligent life exists anywhere else but here on good old earth, because I don't know. And I use the term intelligent life here on earth with tongue in cheek. :) But it is a fun topic to ponder. pic.

Just think about it. With the analogy you gave with the softball pinhead etc. how much we cannot cover just here in our own galaxy. Take a grain of sand and cast it from a plane over the largest desert known then go back a year later and try and find it. From what I gather that is about how vast the universe is and about the same chance of finding life if it exists. Of course it all depends on how abundant that life is and how many forms or it exist. Is there only one other intelligent life form out there? Why would that be? if there are two why not 3 why not 4 why not 5 thousand etc. It seems as the numbers we are dealing with are so staggering and cannot be imagined. That is why religion comes into so many discussions of a topic such as this.

The catach phrase, "WE ARE NOT ALONE", is fun to ponder and discuss. But lets not take ourselves to seriously on this because we just don't know.

Many ask why would a very intelligent life form want to bother with us? Same reason we do research on all sorts of life forms found here on earth. To discover things and possibly find where we came from. Don't you think these intelligent life forms would like to know where they originated...maybe they came from things like people on that speck in space called earth. :)
Message: Posted by: Dougini (May 20, 2013 09:34AM)
Ya wanna feel really small? Watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4iD-9GSW-0

Doug
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (May 20, 2013 09:55AM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-20 08:30, Dougini wrote:
This photo I put up is NOT an artifact of photography! Two satellites, a Chinese and an Americam got this same photo. However when the photo was published, the "machine" was blurred out. WHY?

Again, it doesn't matter. Just remember this conversation. Laugh if you want. I'll laugh right along with you! It seems outrageous, ludicrous, and a complete fantasy! I'm not trying to convince you. I'm just putting up the little bit of info I have, for those who have an open mind.

Doug
[/quote]

A photograph of WHAT, exactly? I guess, like the face on Mars, that people see what they want to see.
Message: Posted by: rockwall (May 20, 2013 10:57AM)
I think it was on the moon that the Watcher provided Reed Richards with the device to thwart Galactus so it's quite possible that the photograph is of the entrance to that secret location.
Message: Posted by: Pakar Ilusi (May 20, 2013 11:27AM)
I want to see faces on Uranus. :ohyes:
Message: Posted by: Dougini (May 20, 2013 01:54PM)
Ha! Pakar you crack me up! :)

This appears to be a machine. After discussing this with the Lt. Col., he feels it is a mining machine of some sort. Photo artifacts? Hardly. We've concluded this is real. It is NOT the only one. There are...ruins elsewhere. Incredible constructs. Towers over a mile tall. NASA knows MUCH more than they're telling us. Fact.

Ya know, that might be for the best. We as a species are not mature enough to deal with technology of this type. We're too involved in grubbing money. We are short-sighted. Violent. Close-minded! My first glimpse of this (before it was public domain) convinced me immediately that we are NOT alone.

We were warned away from The Moon. That much is clear. By whom...well, that's for speculation and comedy! :)

Doug
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (May 20, 2013 02:06PM)
Woah. The Lt. Col. seems to be an expert in everything! Like I said earlier, mine is an expert on Bigfoot and chupacabras. (But, then again, he is a bit of a wingnut.)

BTW- You can write "Fact" after any sentence you like, but it does not make it so. And note that William of Okkam didn't use his razor for shaving.
Message: Posted by: Dougini (May 20, 2013 02:17PM)
True. :) That's fine. You can take it as truth or not. No, the Lt. Col. is not an expert on everything. The Major has more, but I don't talk to him as often. Hey, wingnut is good! I'm a bit of a hex-nut myself.

Bigfoot is mainly in The Northeast. The chupas'...I don't worry about too much. However, we don't have enough information. Just these photos. As to what we (they, whoever) are doing about this...it's all hush-hush. I agree! WHY??? Who benefits from all this? You'd think we'd spend the defense budget trying to uncover this!

And my question is, if this "machinery" is still in operational state, who is running it?
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 20, 2013 02:54PM)
I think the most certain proof of intelligent life on other planets is the fact they have not tried to contact us.
Message: Posted by: 0pus (May 20, 2013 04:14PM)
No upside?
Message: Posted by: Mehtas (May 20, 2013 04:20PM)
[quote]

On 2013-05-20 15:54, Dannydoyle wrote:

I think the most certain proof of intelligent life on other planets is the fact they have not tried to contact us.

[/quote]


Nor have they tried to meet out leaders.
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (May 20, 2013 05:06PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-20 15:17, Dougini wrote:

And my question is, if this "machinery" is still in operational state, who is running it?
[/quote]

And your question succinctly demonstrates how conspiracy theories grow. IF the picture depicts a "machine," then what IF it is still operable, and IF it is, who is running it? {And WHY are "they" covering up the answers?}

That's a lot of action from a highly ambiguous compressed JPEG.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 20, 2013 05:11PM)
It is also mixed with flawed logic, pseudo intellectual babble and outright assuming the conclusion in most cases.
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (May 20, 2013 05:45PM)
Here's some further relevant information:

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Mars_Anomaly_Research
Message: Posted by: Mehtas (May 20, 2013 05:51PM)
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b241/mehtas99/ufo_zpsfaf4fe4d.jpg
Message: Posted by: silvercup (May 20, 2013 06:09PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-17 12:09, Dannydoyle wrote:
Great use of sarcasm to cover not having a point to make.
[/quote]

Point already made.
Message: Posted by: acesover (May 20, 2013 06:12PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-20 18:51, Mehtas wrote:
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b241/mehtas99/ufo_zpsfaf4fe4d.jpg
[/quote]

Ha, ha love that find. Great post.
Message: Posted by: R.S. (May 20, 2013 06:19PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-20 10:09, acesover wrote:
I am not saying there is life other than what is here on earth. Because I don't know. But I do consider this a g reat beer and pretzels topic. However I don't know how you can make a statement like the one you made: "As far as our own Solar system, it's highly unlikely that advanced life forms exist outside of Earth. It seems there are only 2 planets in our solar system which would be conducive to advanced life - Earth and maybe Mars". Now if you added the words "as we know it". I could go along with it. Whatever conditions exist anywhere with evolution why is it not possible for "some sort of life to start" and evolve into who knows what? Again I am not saying life exists elsewhere because as I have stated I really don't know whether it does or not.

I really don't have any idea how much of our own galaxy our astronomers can cover 24/7. But by guess is that it is rather minute considering the vastness we are talking about. Compounded by the fact of observing, finding something as small as a vessel from another planet I believe the chances of this are rather remote if not downright impossible except by chance. Chance caused by as mentioned before an accident.

Again let me say that I am not here saying that other life especially intelligent life exists anywhere else but here on good old earth, because I don't know. And I use the term intelligent life here on earth with tongue in cheek. :) But it is a fun topic to ponder. pic.

Just think about it. With the analogy you gave with the softball pinhead etc. how much we cannot cover just here in our own galaxy. Take a grain of sand and cast it from a plane over the largest desert known then go back a year later and try and find it. From what I gather that is about how vast the universe is and about the same chance of finding life if it exists. Of course it all depends on how abundant that life is and how many forms or it exist. Is there only one other intelligent life form out there? Why would that be? if there are two why not 3 why not 4 why not 5 thousand etc. It seems as the numbers we are dealing with are so staggering and cannot be imagined. That is why religion comes into so many discussions of a topic such as this.

The catach phrase, "WE ARE NOT ALONE", is fun to ponder and discuss. But lets not take ourselves to seriously on this because we just don't know.

Many ask why would a very intelligent life form want to bother with us? Same reason we do research on all sorts of life forms found here on earth. To discover things and possibly find where we came from. Don't you think these intelligent life forms would like to know where they originated...maybe they came from things like people on that speck in space called earth. :)
[/quote]

The 6 planets other than Earth and Mars present rather serious challenges to advanced life gaining a foothold (and even for primitive life in some cases). Not impossible mind you, but certainly daunting. I won't go into detail here, but it's easy enough to do your own research on the conditions of those planets.

It's not so much that astronomers are systematically searching other solar systems for alien spacecraft (that level of resolution wouldn't be possible anyway). It's more that astronomers are always looking skyward, so if a UFO that's already in our skies approached their field of vision they would certainly notice it. So between the tens of thousands of amateur and professional astronomers, and the millions of people who nowadays have a cell phone with a camera, you would think that there would be an abundance of high quality (and corroborated) evidence for these UFOs that are supposedly ubiquitous. But there isn't. Also, there are something like 13,000 satellites in orbit around Earth. Add to that the tens of thousands of planes in the sky at any moment, along with radar that is constantly tracking them, and it would seem unlikely that UFOs could avoid detection for very long.

You're right, biological research would be one motivation for aliens. BUT... you've got to satisfy a LOT of conditions before we ever get to the point of assuming visitation and questioning motivations.

Pass the beer and pretzels, please. :)

Ron
Message: Posted by: Magnus Eisengrim (May 20, 2013 06:46PM)
Here's the thing about UFOs. Astronomers never see them. Not the professionals nor the amateurs. Never. And nobody looks at the sky more than they do. You'd think that with all the time that amateur and professional astronomers are looking up, one of them would see the UFOs that people who never look up seem to find.

Of course, astronomers have a big body of knowledge of what things look like. It's a handicap in the UFO business, apparently ;)
Message: Posted by: R.S. (May 20, 2013 07:10PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-20 18:45, mastermindreader wrote:
Here's some further relevant information:

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Mars_Anomaly_Research
[/quote]

Thanks Bob! From your link:

**Claims such as these denigrate the hard work of those who are trying to learn about the real Mars. There are thousands of dedicated scientists for whom the discovery of Martian life would be the pinnacle of their careers, the greatest advance in human knowledge of our time. To suggest that these people, including the late Carl Sagan, would intentionally obfuscate evidence of this, is deeply insulting.**


This is so true. The thing that strikes me about the assorted UFO/alien debates is that the REAL facts of the universe, the REAL knowledge that we have gained, is deeply fascinating and much more interesting than any wild speculation or anecdotal stories. The UFO crowd generally dismisses science/astronomy as a boring and ultimately fruitless endeavor at best, and at worst, as conspiratorial. UFO stories satisfy their thirst for the sensational and the incredible, as well as connecting them to the universe at large. I understand that feeling very well. But a serious pursuit of astronomy will provide that same feeling 10 times over! Astronomy provides so many amazing facts about the universe we inhabit that you can't help but be in awe! Furthermore, how we came to know these things is equally inspiring. Black holes, neutron stars, supernovae, etc. are all REAL, and therefore provide wonderment that no half-baked UFO story ever could. Did you know that every atom in your body at this moment came from a star that died? And that the atoms in your left hand may have come from a different star than the atoms in your right hand? We know this to be true. Think of that when you look at the night sky. These precious gems of knowledge that we have ingeniously teased from the universe are the sorts of things that amaze me. The sensational (though unfounded) stories of UFOs can never measure up to the mind blowing KNOWN facts of the universe.


Ron
:)
Message: Posted by: acesover (May 20, 2013 07:29PM)
I am not sure but I do not believe that the telescopes used by astronomers are made to view objects such as space craft. Quite honestly if there was a space craft in space when a telescope was trained and focused on a planet it would not be visible. Not to sure how much you guys know about photography and focus but if a wide aperture lens is focused at infinity most objects up close will just about disappear. that is actually how you can take a picture of a caged animal behind a chain link fence. Use a wide aperture and focus on the animal and the close chain link fence will disappear.

Besides that with even as many people watching the heavens as possible they have to be seeing a very miniscule part at any one time. Also if we are talking about a space craft we are talking about it flying very low in order to be spotted. Go at night or even the day and look up and you really have to strain to seen a plane and I believe they are probably flying much lower and slower than any space craft. Also as mentioned thousands of planes are in the air at one time yet how many do you see? I don't think there would be thousands of space craft flying around to be sighted.

Just a thought here. It has been asked why would the government hide it if there were visitors from outer space? Ask yourself this. Suppose that a space craft landed at a small local airport or town or whatever. What is the first thing that the government would do? Cordon off the area and make it inaccessible to the public. Why? I don't know. Maybe because they can. Who knows. But you can bet that is what would happen.
Message: Posted by: acesover (May 20, 2013 07:31PM)
Posted this in the above post.

Just a thought here. It has been asked why would the government hide it if there were visitors from outer space? Ask yourself this. Suppose that a space craft landed at a small local airport or town or whatever. What is the first thing that the government would do? Cordon off the area and make it inaccessible to the public. Why? I don't know. Maybe because they can. Who knows. But you can bet that is what would happen.
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (May 20, 2013 07:45PM)
Of course they would cordon off the area, if only for safety reasons and to determine any possible danger. And news media from across the country would be there reporting on it. Do you know how many thousands of people would have to be involved in a coverup to prevent the event from becoming public knowledge?

The old saying is still fundamentally true- The only way that three people can keep a secret is if two of them are dead.
Message: Posted by: acesover (May 20, 2013 08:00PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-20 20:45, mastermindreader wrote:
Of course they would cordon off the area, if only for safety reasons and to determine any possible danger. And news media from across the country would be there reporting on it. Do you know how many thousands of people would have to be involved in a coverup to prevent the event from becoming public knowledge?

The old saying is still fundamentally true- The only way that three people can keep a secret is if two of them are dead.
[/quote]

I agree that the news media from across the country would be there to report on it. However I would also bet that they would be no where near the craft. I would also wager that no news helicopters would be allowed to fly over the area. I do not mean to say that they would try and say it never happened. However I am saying they would release only that information they wanted to the public.

It would be nothing like the original movie, "The Day the Earth Stood Still". They hardly had anyone guarding the craft or Klaatu.

"The Day the Earth Stood Still" (the original) still remains my all time favorite Sci Fi movie.

Klaatu barada nikto.
Message: Posted by: Dougini (May 20, 2013 08:01PM)
Wow. I'm outnumbered here. Interesting Wiki article! OK. I didn't mean to insult anyone. Carl Sagan especially! I guess I'm done here! Good thread, guys! Take care! :)

Doug
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (May 20, 2013 09:09PM)
Acesover-

I agree. The original "The Day the Earth Stood Still" with Michael Rennie and Patricia Neal is, IMO, the best of the classic science-fiction movies of the fifties.

And don't forget Gort!
Message: Posted by: kambiz (May 20, 2013 11:58PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-20 20:10, R.S. wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-05-20 18:45, mastermindreader wrote:
Here's some further relevant information:

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Mars_Anomaly_Research
[/quote]

Thanks Bob! From your link:

**Claims such as these denigrate the hard work of those who are trying to learn about the real Mars. There are thousands of dedicated scientists for whom the discovery of Martian life would be the pinnacle of their careers, the greatest advance in human knowledge of our time. To suggest that these people, including the late Carl Sagan, would intentionally obfuscate evidence of this, is deeply insulting.**


This is so true. The thing that strikes me about the assorted UFO/alien debates is that the REAL facts of the universe, the REAL knowledge that we have gained, is deeply fascinating and much more interesting than any wild speculation or anecdotal stories. The UFO crowd generally dismisses science/astronomy as a boring and ultimately fruitless endeavor at best, and at worst, as conspiratorial. UFO stories satisfy their thirst for the sensational and the incredible, as well as connecting them to the universe at large. I understand that feeling very well. But a serious pursuit of astronomy will provide that same feeling 10 times over! Astronomy provides so many amazing facts about the universe we inhabit that you can't help but be in awe! Furthermore, how we came to know these things is equally inspiring. Black holes, neutron stars, supernovae, etc. are all REAL, and therefore provide wonderment that no half-baked UFO story ever could. Did you know that every atom in your body at this moment came from a star that died? And that the atoms in your left hand may have come from a different star than the atoms in your right hand? We know this to be true. Think of that when you look at the night sky. These precious gems of knowledge that we have ingeniously teased from the universe are the sorts of things that amaze me. The sensational (though unfounded) stories of UFOs can never measure up to the mind blowing KNOWN facts of the universe.


Ron
:)
[/quote]

Very well said Ron :)

Kam
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 21, 2013 04:07AM)
People find it hard to believe but the truth is sometimes boring. Every small town has something they are "hiding" . Turns out that it is invariably a boring reason. Facts are facts and speculation without training is absurd.

We have scientific methods for determining things. What people call common sense is not the method. Look at the stock in the water analogy. Common sense tells you it is bent. You can see with your own eyes it is bent! Science tells us different.

Not any science is perfect. But it is as close as we can get. Doug you seem like a good guy. Most people who fall for this nonsense are. Stop watching the History Channel.

I have said it for years. People who are serious are hindered by the false claims.
Message: Posted by: R.S. (May 21, 2013 05:23AM)
There is an actual dedicated organization that has been actively seeking extraterrestrials using modern tools and scientific methods for the past 30 years. It is called SETI. You can read about them and their work here:

http://www.seti.org/

These are people who have a keen interest in finding life beyond earth. They are smart, motivated, and dedicated. Yet, to date, their findings don't include "crashed saucers", or "alien copses", or "35 mile long machines on the Moon." Why is that? You would think that after 30 years of dogged pursuit, after 30 years of WANTING to find something, and with tremendous resources and technology at their disposal, they would have made a major announcement by now. But they haven't. And they still toil away without any fanfare. This is how science is done. This is how REAL discoveries come about.


Ron
Message: Posted by: R.S. (May 21, 2013 05:32AM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-21 05:07, Dannydoyle wrote:
People find it hard to believe but the truth is sometimes boring. Every small town has something they are "hiding" . Turns out that it is invariably a boring reason. Facts are facts and speculation without training is absurd.

We have scientific methods for determining things. What people call common sense is not the method. Look at the stock in the water analogy. Common sense tells you it is bent. You can see with your own eyes it is bent! Science tells us different.

Not any science is perfect. But it is as close as we can get. Doug you seem like a good guy. Most people who fall for this nonsense are. Stop watching the History Channel.

I have said it for years. People who are serious are hindered by the false claims.
[/quote]

I agree - Doug does seem like a great guy! And I also agree that The History Channel has jumped the shark long ago. These days it's neither history nor science. It's sensationalism that pretends to be credible. It knows there is more interest (and ratings) in the "aliens built the pyramids" type stories than in the less sensational truth. Don't buy into it.

Ron
Message: Posted by: Pakar Ilusi (May 21, 2013 09:20AM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-20 15:54, Dannydoyle wrote:
I think the most certain proof of intelligent life on other planets is the fact they have not tried to contact us.
[/quote]

Much truth there actually.

We are not ready for the truth and THEY know it.

Like little children we are now to them. :ohyes:
Message: Posted by: acesover (May 21, 2013 09:25AM)
So it seems, that if there is life out there, the distances are just so vast to ever find out with the current mode of space travel. We would definitely need light speed space craft at the very least to ever reach these planets. So until then we can just speculate and discuss the possibilities of life out there because there is no way we can know for sure.

So unless life out there has advanced so far as to have the capabilities to reach us, we are not going to meet them any time soon. Discounting the possibility that they came all this way and had a mishap and we found their remains or they want to contact us it will remain just a fantasy of our fertile minds as to whether life exists out there.

TO BAD SO SAD. :pout:
Message: Posted by: Magnus Eisengrim (May 21, 2013 10:04AM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-21 10:25, acesover wrote:
So it seems, that if there is life out there, the distances are just so vast to ever find out with the current mode of space travel. We would definitely need light speed space craft at the very least to ever reach these planets. So until then we can just speculate and discuss the possibilities of life out there because there is no way we can know for sure.

So unless life out there has advanced so far as to have the capabilities to reach us, we are not going to meet them any time soon. Discounting the possibility that they came all this way and had a mishap and we found their remains or they want to contact us it will remain just a fantasy of our fertile minds as to whether life exists out there.

TO BAD SO SAD. :pout:
[/quote]

Never discount blind luck. It could be that somebody isn't too far away and we stumble upon each other. And maybe they'll be nicer to strangers than homo sapiens has historically been. Don't think I'd like to be transported to an intergalactic zoo.
Message: Posted by: Pakar Ilusi (May 21, 2013 10:11AM)
One theory is we're descendants of aliens who got here many aeons ago.

Better thinking there than being reprimanded for eating an apple I say. ;)
Message: Posted by: Woland (May 21, 2013 10:43AM)
Klaatu barada nikto, and all that jazz.
Message: Posted by: Pakar Ilusi (May 21, 2013 10:51AM)
The ending of Battlestar Galactica more like it.

Check it out.
Message: Posted by: landmark (May 21, 2013 10:59AM)
[img]http://i.imgur.com/3lzq7GY.jpg[/img]
Message: Posted by: Pakar Ilusi (May 21, 2013 11:01AM)
Ending of Battlestar Galactica.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HS7lAuJBxE0

:ohyes:
Message: Posted by: George Ledo (May 21, 2013 11:05AM)
I've always wondered (OK, since I was a kid, anyway), why we always seem to think that alien civilizations always have to be more advanced than us. Granted there probably wouldn't be any point in a story where we go and find a planet full of two-pound, inedible land-based green lobsters that feed on blue cacti and secrete Chanel #1, but I would think that qualifies as life too. :)

Landmark - love the cartoon! LMFAO!!!!!!
Message: Posted by: Pakar Ilusi (May 21, 2013 11:09AM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-21 12:05, George Ledo wrote:
I've always wondered (OK, since I was a kid, anyway), why we always seem to think that alien civilizations always have to be more advanced than us. Granted there probably wouldn't be any point in a story where we go and find a planet full of two-pound, inedible land-based green lobsters that feed on blue cacti and secrete Chanel #1, but I would think that qualifies as life too. :)

Landmark - love the cartoon! LMFAO!!!!!!
[/quote]

That is almost undisputed that it is highly likely there'll be some kind of life form, at least bacterium.

It's intelligent life we're looking for...
Message: Posted by: Pakar Ilusi (May 21, 2013 11:14AM)
Here's the ending that I was looking for...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=ZxYoJCvfgBk&NR=1
Message: Posted by: Magnus Eisengrim (May 21, 2013 11:16AM)
Monty Python, as always, [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWVshkVF0SY]puts things in perspective.[/url]
Message: Posted by: George Ledo (May 21, 2013 12:42PM)
[quote]
That is almost undisputed that it is highly likely there'll be some kind of life form, at least bacterium.

It's intelligent life we're looking for...
[/quote]
I understand that, but at one point right here on Earth there was no intelligent life as we know it - millions and millions of years of single-celled organisms, all the way past the dinosaurs, and to when "we" first appeared. I would think if we found anything alive somewhere, that'd be a tip-off that there could well be intelligent life out there.

Of course, NASA would never get the funding to go after those green lobsters... :)
Message: Posted by: Pakar Ilusi (May 21, 2013 12:46PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-21 13:42, George Ledo wrote:
[quote]
That is almost undisputed that it is highly likely there'll be some kind of life form, at least bacterium.

It's intelligent life we're looking for...
[/quote]
I understand that, but at one point right here on Earth there was no intelligent life as we know it - millions and millions of years of single-celled organisms, all the way past the dinosaurs, and to when "we" first appeared. I would think if we found anything alive somewhere, that'd be a tip-off that there could well be intelligent life out there.

Of course, NASA would never get the funding to go after those green lobsters... :)
[/quote]

We would be the "aliens" on that planet, and when they've evolved to what we want them to be, those green lobsters will talk about their "Ancient Aliens"... :ohyes:
Message: Posted by: acesover (May 21, 2013 12:55PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-21 11:04, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-05-21 10:25, acesover wrote:
So it seems, that if there is life out there, the distances are just so vast to ever find out with the current mode of space travel. We would definitely need light speed space craft at the very least to ever reach these planets. So until then we can just speculate and discuss the possibilities of life out there because there is no way we can know for sure.

So unless life out there has advanced so far as to have the capabilities to reach us, we are not going to meet them any time soon. Discounting the possibility that they came all this way and had a mishap and we found their remains or they want to contact us it will remain just a fantasy of our fertile minds as to whether life exists out there.

TO BAD SO SAD. :pout:
[/quote]

Never discount blind luck. It could be that somebody isn't too far away and we stumble upon each other. And maybe they'll be nicer to strangers than homo sapiens has historically been. Don't think I'd like to be transported to an intergalactic zoo.
[/quote]

Your post just made me think. What if we are in an intergalactic zoo and don't know it? The sightings we come across are field trips of advanced aliens visiting the zoo. :) Just out for a day at the zoo with the family.

The tour guide says. This is the planet earth. Notice how the earthlings fight among themselves and destroy each other with primitive weapons in the name of peace. It is highly unlikely this exhibit will last much longer as it is on a path of self destruction.
Message: Posted by: Pakar Ilusi (May 21, 2013 01:04PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-21 13:55, acesover wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-05-21 11:04, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-05-21 10:25, acesover wrote:
So it seems, that if there is life out there, the distances are just so vast to ever find out with the current mode of space travel. We would definitely need light speed space craft at the very least to ever reach these planets. So until then we can just speculate and discuss the possibilities of life out there because there is no way we can know for sure.

So unless life out there has advanced so far as to have the capabilities to reach us, we are not going to meet them any time soon. Discounting the possibility that they came all this way and had a mishap and we found their remains or they want to contact us it will remain just a fantasy of our fertile minds as to whether life exists out there.

TO BAD SO SAD. :pout:
[/quote]

Never discount blind luck. It could be that somebody isn't too far away and we stumble upon each other. And maybe they'll be nicer to strangers than homo sapiens has historically been. Don't think I'd like to be transported to an intergalactic zoo.
[/quote]

Your post just made me think. What if we are in an intergalactic zoo and don't know it? The sightings we come across are field trips of advanced aliens visiting the zoo. :) Just out for a day at the zoo with the family.

The tour guide says. This is the planet earth. Notice how the earthlings fight among themselves and destroy each other with primitive weapons in the name of peace. It is highly unlikely this exhibit will last much longer as it is on a path of self destruction.
[/quote]

That's a movie plot there. ;)
Message: Posted by: Magnus Eisengrim (May 21, 2013 02:05PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-21 13:55, acesover wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-05-21 11:04, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-05-21 10:25, acesover wrote:
So it seems, that if there is life out there, the distances are just so vast to ever find out with the current mode of space travel. We would definitely need light speed space craft at the very least to ever reach these planets. So until then we can just speculate and discuss the possibilities of life out there because there is no way we can know for sure.

So unless life out there has advanced so far as to have the capabilities to reach us, we are not going to meet them any time soon. Discounting the possibility that they came all this way and had a mishap and we found their remains or they want to contact us it will remain just a fantasy of our fertile minds as to whether life exists out there.

TO BAD SO SAD. :pout:
[/quote]

Never discount blind luck. It could be that somebody isn't too far away and we stumble upon each other. And maybe they'll be nicer to strangers than homo sapiens has historically been. Don't think I'd like to be transported to an intergalactic zoo.
[/quote]

Your post just made me think. What if we are in an intergalactic zoo and don't know it? The sightings we come across are field trips of advanced aliens visiting the zoo. :) Just out for a day at the zoo with the family.

The tour guide says. This is the planet earth. Notice how the earthlings fight among themselves and destroy each other with primitive weapons in the name of peace. It is highly unlikely this exhibit will last much longer as it is on a path of self destruction.
[/quote]

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeVhhHRDcQU&safety_mode=true&persist_safety_mode=1&safe=active]Cue the vinyl.[/url]
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 21, 2013 03:24PM)
Yea turns out space is REALLY big!
Message: Posted by: Mehtas (May 21, 2013 04:05PM)
[quote]

On 2013-05-21 16:24, Dannydoyle wrote:

Yea turns out space is REALLY big!

[/quote]

First it was 10 billion light years... then 15 and now 150.

Does it have a "border" and what is beyond that border ???

more space ???

Then you would think it's bigger than 150 billion light years.

How can infinite space come from infinitly small point ???

These are the questions that blows my mind.
Message: Posted by: R.S. (May 21, 2013 06:06PM)
Compressing the entire history of the Universe into 1 year also puts things in perspective. We'll call the beginning of the Universe 12 AM on January 1, and the present time is midnight on December 31. Imagine that all of the history of the universe occurred in this "cosmic" year. What month or day do you suppose our own solar system formed? When did dinosaurs first appear on Earth? When did humans first appear? What month or day was the Civil War? What month or day was the Apollo moon landing? Think about where you would place these events on our compressed (but proportional) 1 year timescale. Then watch this video and be amazed (pay attention to the "bright speck" at about 0:35):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aOVItJHZEM


Ron
:)
Message: Posted by: landmark (May 22, 2013 11:35AM)
[quote]Does it have a "border" and what is beyond that border ??? [/quote]
The fence building commences in short order.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 22, 2013 03:28PM)
Indont mind aliens but that fence better go up to keep out the illegals.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 22, 2013 03:30PM)
Indont mind aliens but that fence better go up to keep out the illegals.
Message: Posted by: EsnRedshirt (May 22, 2013 03:42PM)
[quote]
On 2013-05-22 12:35, landmark wrote:
[quote]Does it have a "border" and what is beyond that border ??? [/quote]
The fence building commences in short order.
[/quote]There's an old story that when the first Star Trek movie was greenlit, the writers and producers and such all sat around trying to come up with a plot that was worthy of the silver screen. Ideas were tossed around, nothing was big enough or satisfying enough. Finally, one of the writers comes up with an idea- the Enterprise is flung through a wormhole into the farthest reaches of the universe, where they come upon a barrier. After much study, they decide to cut through it with the ship's phasers, open a huge rift, and gaze upon the face of God Himself.

Gene Roddenbury rolls his eyes and chastizes the writer- "I thought I told you to think BIG!"