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Topic: What can beat a Goody "Bag"?
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Jun 23, 2013 09:19AM)
I seen the a link to Josh's Goody Bags on a different thread: http://thesandiegomagician.com/giveaways-goody-bags/ Wow that really got my attention. I like how his marketing material is on the bags. But next I thought "But how about when the bags are thrown away?" So I was thinking about using something different hold the goodys to replace the bags that kids would like to treasure longer. A magic hat is the first I thought of. Have the marketing label on the magic hat. Have the magic hat full of goodys. Select different colors of magic hats. Paper hats will be to flimsy. Plastic magic hats will play a strong role. I am sure the fee will be more than the bags. But do you think plastic magic hats will be a good investment?

P.S. How do you spell goody/goodie?
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Jun 23, 2013 09:54AM)
Mike
Are you a magician or a huckster? If you want more money get a better show and charge more to do it.
Message: Posted by: Skip Way (Jun 23, 2013 10:07AM)
Jeff Jones uses fuzzy cloth rabbit pouches embroidered with his marketing information as party bags. I don't recall the exact cost, but believe it was somewhere around $3-$4 per bag filled. Definitely something that clients were likely to keep as a keepsake. Jeff also offers a plastic top hat with a color oval lid that fit inside the brim with his market info - cost around $3-$4 filled. Eddy Wade included a T-shirt with his information in his party bags. I focus my in-party marketing more on Eddy Wade's Mommy Pack - my pack includes fridge magnet, dry-erase magnetic babysitter guide, and party referral slips among oter items. Think outside of the bag...
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Jun 23, 2013 10:39AM)
[quote]
On 2013-06-23 11:07, Skip Way wrote:
Think outside of the bag...
[/quote]
LOL
Message: Posted by: Michael Baker (Jun 23, 2013 11:12AM)
[quote]
On 2013-06-23 10:54, Al Angello wrote:
Mike
Are you a magician or a huckster? If you want more money get a better show and charge more to do it.
[/quote]

Despite your being dragged into the 21st century kicking and screaming, BOR sale and upsells are pretty common in many entertainment venues. Have you ever heard of Disneyworld?
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Jun 23, 2013 11:47AM)
Michael
I do BOR at libraries, public shows, when I busk, at community celebrations, and festivals, but hawking your wares at house parties for mom's on a budget is a bad idea. The in your face infomertial approach is far to crass for my taste.
Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (Jun 23, 2013 12:00PM)
Keep in mind that most (normal) people don't attempt to do BOR at birthday parties. They do upselling at the time they make the booking. Upselling and BOR are different.

BTW, I'm not really thrilled with the concept of including 10 goodie bags for free for a birthday mom, but they have to buy extras if their party happens to have more than 10 kids. It puts undue pressure on the customer when it comes to upselling. I would rather include all of the items for free (as a part of the package), or upsell all of the items. That's just my personal opinion.

- Donald
Message: Posted by: Gordyboy (Jun 23, 2013 12:55PM)
I also do Goody Bags but don't include any free ones in any package, they're always an upsell. Last time I assembled them they cost me close to $3 and I sell them for $7, but if you purchase the Ultimate Magic Show (I have Basic, Deluxe and Ultimate) you get a discount on the goody bags down to $5, or sometimes I'll do $5 for repeat customers or if I just feel enough price resistance but still want to make the $2 per bag I sell. I think the biggest selling point is the fact that the customer only pays for as many as they need the day of the party, and they don't end up with leftover bags or portions. Some things they might purchase come in a package of 10, some things in a package of 12, so if they need 14 goody bags they're going to have to purchase extra stuff.

I agree with Donalds statement, if I include 10 free ones and they're expecting 14 children, it does put undue pressure on the customer to purchase another 4.

Most of my stuff comes from Rhode Island Novelty, including the cloth bags. Since I'm in Canada, my costs are higher than they would be in the US (postage and duty kills).

You can see the contents of mine here... http://www.birthdaymagic.ca/Extras.html
Message: Posted by: shomemagic (Jun 23, 2013 01:29PM)
Im with Al on this regarding Birthday shows..Most people around here are doing the best to have entertainment at their childs birthday party and trying to sell extras is usually not something they want to do..They have cake and ice cream for the kids and the entertainment is all they can do....

I would like to know more about what items different magicians offer for BOR for the venues they would be great for?
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Jun 23, 2013 01:47PM)
Mike my friend
I like the way you think. Here's a priceless item. Don't take my word all you gotta do is read Kevin's reviews, and with your cool new cartoon logo on the cover you will have yourself a real money maker. Forget about this penny anti stuff, not enough bang for the buck. I'll PM you with some other hot items too. If you buy smartly at your next library show or community celebration your BOR could double your fee.

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=505266&forum=44&66
Message: Posted by: Michael Baker (Jun 23, 2013 06:27PM)
[quote]
On 2013-06-23 13:00, Donald Dunphy wrote:
Keep in mind that most (normal) people don't attempt to do BOR at birthday parties. They do upselling at the time they make the booking. Upselling and BOR are different.

BTW, I'm not really thrilled with the concept of including 10 goodie bags for free for a birthday mom, but they have to buy extras if their party happens to have more than 10 kids. It puts undue pressure on the customer when it comes to upselling. I would rather include all of the items for free (as a part of the package), or upsell all of the items. That's just my personal opinion.

- Donald
[/quote]

I agree that BOR and upselling are two different things. I also agree that BOR sales are not best for home parties. They should (IMO) be reserved for either public, or corporate/civic/institution backed events, and always with the client's previous consent.

I also agree that there should be a consistency to any upsell items, but there is surely to be some gray area there from time to time. If the give-aways are included in the fee, there should be an "up to" number of some kind. If there are 10 kids and 14 show up, it is not a huge deal to just throw in the extras, as long as they are minimal expense goodie bags. But, assuming there will be 10 kids and 30 kids show up, could cut the profits considerably. It might take some thought to make this work well most of the time.

Al, I was not trying to be insulting... sorry if I came across that way. But in fairness, I don't think offering a couple of different show packages is crass infomercialism. Of course to some moms (or dads) it would be a stretch of the budget to have to purchase these "add-ons". But there are plenty of them who would welcome the convenience of not having to acquire all that themselves... assuming they had already planned to do such a thing. The convenience offered is that the magician is in a position to "power buy" supplies. He can justify buying a gross or more of any one item. A mom may not even know where to look for singles of such things.

Again... BOR sales are not good for these kinds of parties, and I agree, that would be crass. If I were a customer, I'd begin to wonder how much of the time I'd purchased was being used to entertain and how much was being used for self-promotion, and dinging the rubes.
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Jun 23, 2013 06:59PM)
Michael
We have been friends too long for me to start acting funny tonight. When the time comes to whip out my BOR stuff I jump, but until then I will KISS.

I get $XXX to perform a 45 minute show, and I can make minimum wage whipping up those goody bags. Michael I would far rather make the $XXX take a few bows, and I'm out the door. Let younger men than me scoop up that minimum wage goody bag money.
Message: Posted by: Gordyboy (Jun 23, 2013 08:33PM)
Al, I agree with most of what you say, you're right that the Goody Bags on their own don't bring in a lot of money, but the way I look at it is that having Goody Bags is just one more service I can provide and that might be enough to help me book a few more shows (actually, from experience I know it is). Looking at the big picture, it helps my bottom line and makes more happy customers. One day I may decide it's not worth the effort.
Message: Posted by: Mike Maturen (Jun 23, 2013 09:34PM)
Really Al?!?!?!? Mike is an excellent magician and VERY well-thought of in the Detroit area. Many magicians put together "extras" to upgrade their packages. It's no different than BOR sales after a show.

Quit being so curmudgeonly! (said with the greatest of respect and love, of course!) ;)

[quote]
On 2013-06-23 10:54, Al Angello wrote:
Mike
Are you a magician or a huckster? If you want more money get a better show and charge more to do it.
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: JoshLondonMagic (Jun 23, 2013 09:45PM)
Dynamite, I'd be cautios about doing magic hats (of the plastic variety) because they'd be difficult to transport from show to show. The bags pack flat and the kids take home my magic book and Funny Money with my info on it so I'm not too concerned about them not knowing who they just saw.

I would have hoped that folks gave me more credit and know that I know the difference between BOR and add ons. I only do BOR at corporate events, libraries, schools, etc. and never ever birthday parties. Now add ons, that's a different ball game. For birthday parties it is true if you get my Platinum package you get 10 free goody bags and magic books. If you want extra they're $5 and you only pay for what you use.

Not quite sure why this is a bad idea because I provide huge value for my customers who don't want to stuff goody bags and don't know what to put in them and don't want extra supplies left over. For Al's comment about it being a minimum wage job, that's not a correct assumption. This weekend I did 7 shows, 6 of them were platinum shows and I ended up selling an extra 40 bags making another $200 for an hour of work on Friday. Not too bad if you ask me. It's a way I can increase my income and this happens virtually every weekend. Of course some weekends are slower than other and some aren't.

From the get go of the customer reaching out to me to book me it is made very very very clear that you get 10 goody bags and books for free, if you want extras they are $5 each. There is absolutely no surprise.

In fact the #1 question I'm asked is "what if I need more goody bags?"

A week before the show I send out an email making sure we're all set and if they booked the platinum show I ask if they need extra goody bags and if so how many and reiterate that they are $5.

I have never ran into a problem with this and don't see the concerns above as a threat to my bottom line. I am no different than McDonalds asking "do you want fries with that?"

Plus if they don't want goody bags they can get the Gold show. And I even have people who ask for the platinum with no goody bags and I knock off $25 for that. I never ever try to sell goody bags to people who want the gold show. It is very clear from my website and when the talk with me what they get.

Furthermore, the goody bags provide huge benefits than no goody bags to which I've mentioned in other threads.

If 30 kids show up I sell the extra goody bags at half off so instead of $100 extra it's only $50 extra. One time I had a show for over 50 kids and they wanted extra goody bags.

When I'm setting up I am chatting with the mom and ask how many kids there are and if there's more than 10 I always ask again if they'd like to pay for the extra bags.

Long story short there is no surprise and it is very clear what you get when you book me. Plus it adds to my bottom line and increases my income.

If you have any specific questions please feel free to PM me.

Josh
Message: Posted by: Danny Kazam (Jun 23, 2013 09:57PM)
I agree with both Al and Mike. Even though they see it both different ways, I can see where both are coming from.

For some, selling merchandise is a means to either supplent their income, or a way to make money on top of their satisfied wage. Some find the time not worth it altogether, and find the time put into it not worth the return.

I've contemplated using merchandise myself, but currently over offer giveaways that has my advertisment and contact info. I also give out photo's. After many of my stage shows I go down to meet as many kids as I can. I used to get asked for autographs but have nothing to write on or with. I decided to print off 5x7 pictures of me with advertising and contact info. When someone would ask for an autograph, I had something to sign on.

Now, I give out many of them at my stage shows. One child see's me signing one, and others want one. The advertising is well worth it to me. I got many birthday out of my stage shows at school's, fundraisers, and special events. I even got other stage bookings from it.
Message: Posted by: JoshLondonMagic (Jun 23, 2013 10:09PM)
Very nice idea Danny.

I suppose the concept of goody bags and add ons and BOR varies from magician to magician. The only way to see if you'll like it is to try it. If it doesn't work it doesn't work for you, but it might work for someone else.

Josh
Message: Posted by: gmsmagic1 (Jun 23, 2013 10:24PM)
My situation is a little different in that I'm a DJ/Magician, and often get hired out for older kids parties since I often provide dance activities and games in addition to magic. But my general approach to party favors still has relevance here, regardless of the age group or type of show you do.

I personally am not a huge advocate for goody bags since they serve no purpose at the actual party and make me feel like a peddler. Instead, "as a convenience and service" to the host of the party who may be looking to buy favors regardless, I offer to package in specific favors at wholesale rates that compliment the actual activities I'll be doing at the party. This way I'm taking a consultative approach rather than a sales approach. I mean, who better to recommend the favors than the person that is running the party and knows exactly what will contribute to the parties success?

In other words, I personally feel that the ideal party favor is something that the kids can actually use at the party as opposed to something that either needs to be handed to them as they walk out the door or something that may become a distraction.

For example, If I'm doing a conga line where the kids will be going under a limbo stick while being sprayed with bubbles, I might suggest leis or glow necklaces, tambourines and/or maracas. I would never hand out noise makers if there is still more magic to come, so this is typically for creating a festive mood upon the conclusion of the magic before transitioning into dancing or dessert.

But for most of you that are strictly magicians, I've seen things like inflatable magic wands that David Kaye sells on his web site (http://sillymagic.com/funnywandsandprops.htm), which are practical since you can hand them out during the show and have all the kids wave their wands whenever the magic needs to happen. And since you can buy them in bulk or even have your company name printed on them, there is profit to be made and marketing to be gained. I also suggest reaching out to companies like Sherman's and Rhode Island Novelty and setting up a wholesale account so that you can get huge discounts on favors in bulk. When I do bar/bat mitzvahs, the mothers actually really appreciate me taking this burden off of them, and since I get this stuff at wholesale rates, I'm actually able to save the client a ton of money (that they would have spent regardless) and still make a huge profit. Without exaggeration, on larger events, I often make as much as $400 just off the party favors. But you haven't heard the best part yet! :) Guess who is often the last person to leave upon the conclusion of these larger events? Me of course if I have to break down my DJ equipment. So here's the crazy part... I would be willing to bet that at least 30% of the favors get left behind. So who collects them up after everyone has left and before the cleaning crew trashes them? - me! I then turn around and keep recycling the same party favors by selling them all over again to my next client! I don't think you will get this benefit out of goody bags. ;) Now when the client watches all the videos of the party afterwards, guess what they see... all their guests having a great time using the party favors you provided. So everyone is happy.

One last comment regarding splurging on custom printing to market yourself on favors. Make sure you only do this on things that the client will actually want to keep. Hats are by far the most common favor left behind unless it's a small party, so printing your info on those or on goody bags will often be money spent on something that ends up in the trash the same night! In contrast, little kids will keep magic wands or inflatables. But in the end, throwing a great show and handing out plenty of business cards will always be your best marketing tool!

- Gary
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Jun 24, 2013 02:51AM)
Wow, this thread gives support to much interesting information that involves marketing with goody materials.

http://thesandiegomagician.com/giveaways-goody-bags/
http://www.prestomagicproducts.com/instant-author-magic-booklet/
http://www.wademagicproducts.com/MommyPack.html
http://www.magicnc.com/Magician_JEFF_JONES_919-593-4271/Birthday_Parties.html (half way down) Does Jeff Jones sell instructions of how to put the kit together?
http://sillymagic.com/funnywandsandprops.htm Jumbo Inflatable Wand

I was not expecting BOR sales to be included in this thread. But by putting everything together, I am glad it was included. I tried doing BOR sales in the 90's. I did received complaints because I tried doing it without permission, or got so many declines when I asked permission in advance. I will feel more confident with the links above. I will also feel more confident because I will only offer it at the right venues from what was discussed in previous post.

I am interested in the goody bags not because I want to sell anything at a child's house birthday party. But to help generate more sells by having my marketing material inside of more houses as kids use them for fun. I already have 3 general magic act packages to offer. I can add a 4th package with a higher fee that will include goody material.

The economy is still below average. It would be wrong for me to sit down and do nothing while complaining about it. It is time for me to get off my butt and get busy with marketing by using goody material.
[quote]
On 2013-06-23 10:54, Al Angello wrote:
Mike
Are you a magician or a huckster? If you want more money get a better show and charge more to do it.
[/quote]
What is wrong with doing both? I add an extra magic show package. It requires more in the show. Goody material is included at $7 per set. I charge $75 extra more than my highest package. Or I can give out the first 10 goody material sets for free, but charge $145 more than my highest magic package.
[quote]
On 2013-06-23 22:57, Danny Kazam wrote:

I've contemplated using merchandise myself, but currently over offer giveaways that has my advertisment and contact info. I also give out photo's. After many of my stage shows I go down to meet as many kids as I can. I used to get asked for autographs but have nothing to write on or with. I decided to print off 5x7 pictures of me with advertising and contact info. When someone would ask for an autograph, I had something to sign on.

Now, I give out many of them at my stage shows. One child see's me signing one, and others want one. The advertising is well worth it to me. I got many birthday out of my stage shows at school's, fundraisers, and special events. I even got other stage bookings from it.
[/quote]
Having an pre-autographed signed photo with contact sounds like a great idea to include with goody material too.

[quote]
On 2013-06-23 23:24, gmsmagic1 wrote:

Hats are by far the most common favor left behind unless it's a small party, so printing your info on those or on goody bags will often be money spent on something that ends up in the trash the same night!

- Gary
[/quote]
I would recommend passing out the hats full with the goody material as each child's leave, not in the middle of the party.
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Jun 24, 2013 06:47AM)
Mike
There's nothing wrong with picking up a couple extra bucks, I am just opposed to working hard for small change. If you are cool with that go for it amigo.
Message: Posted by: stuartmagic (Jun 24, 2013 07:46AM)
[quote]
On 2013-06-24 07:47, Al Angello wrote:
Mike
There's nothing wrong with picking up a couple extra bucks, I am just opposed to working hard for small change. If you are cool with that go for it amigo.
[/quote]

It really is not hard providing goodie bags and I certainly would recommend you do them. It isn't too much trouble and the rewards are far greater than a couple of bucks ( approx. 1p in the UK ).

Done the correct way you are not "just providing" a goodie bag, you are publicising yourself to every childs' parent and puting your contact details in front of them instead of them googleing on the internet for someone else when it comes to their son or daughter's party.

I always offer goodie bags and with mine I make nothing on them, that's right - they are done at cost price. The reason is that it is a good selling point and the repeat business I get back from the parents taking away my party bags far outweighs the time it takes to put them together. I have my details included and it works.

Think of it like this, if a potential booker has a choice between many magicians / entertainers that they will be bombarded with on a search engine, if you can offer something that sets you apart from anyone else then who do you think they are going to go for. It's down to value for money. Nearly every show I do I get asked to provide goodie bags.

Stuart.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Jun 24, 2013 09:59AM)
[quote]
On 2013-06-24 08:46, stuartmagic wrote:
Done the correct way you are not "just providing" a goodie bag, you are publicising yourself to every childs' parent and puting your contact details in front of them instead of them googleing on the internet for someone else when it comes to their son or daughter's party.

I always offer goodie bags and with mine I make nothing on them, that's right - they are done at cost price. The reason is that it is a good selling point and the repeat business I get back from the parents taking away my party bags far outweighs the time it takes to put them together. I have my details included and it works.

Think of it like this, if a potential booker has a choice between many magicians / entertainers that they will be bombarded with on a search engine, if you can offer something that sets you apart from anyone else then who do you think they are going to go for. It's down to value for money. Nearly every show I do I get asked to provide goodie bags.
[/quote]
Al, don't get me wrong. I have not been focusing on the goody bags because I want to make a few extra dollars. It is because of what Stuart is describing. I am looking forward in doing more shows. Somewhere in this forum I mentioned I am receiving less shows because there is a new clown in my area that entertains for two hours for only $100. She gives out a gift, does magic tricks, face painting and balloons. My shows are lower now from last year because of her. I must try and outweigh her if I want to stay in business.
Message: Posted by: Ryan Price (Jun 24, 2013 10:32AM)
I also provide loot bags. I make just over $1 per bag. I can make around 100 of them in a hour. So that equals $100 per hour so not too bad for doing something when watching tv. Some parents want to take care of the bags them selves. That is why I say "of course there is the option of having this package without the bags for a reduced rate". That way they can have everything in the higher package but don't have to do the bags if they don't want them. Sometimes parents will buy my bags and still make there own. I often hear "wow your bag is better than mine". Another thing I hear all the time is "we will go with your loot bags as it will save me time". Your hired to make little Johnny's birthday better, not just for Johnny but for mom too and if something saves her time it is worth it.

I don't think Al will be a convert but it would be very easy to mention the items you sell back of room and that you could bring enough for all the children if the parent wishes.
Message: Posted by: JoshLondonMagic (Jun 24, 2013 11:05AM)
Dynamike, be cautious about offering 4 different packages. I read in different marketing books and in my own experience that it is best to provide only 2 options. There are studies and what the researchers found is that when people are offered more than 2 choices they tend to get anxious and hesitate choosing anything.

Just something to keep in mind.

Josh
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Jun 24, 2013 03:21PM)
Stuart & Mike
If I lived in Detroit, or England I would consider supplying goody bags, but I live in Philadelphia, and I don't have to jump through all those hoops to get a pay check.
Message: Posted by: JoshLondonMagic (Jun 24, 2013 06:56PM)
Thanks for leaving the extra money on the table for those who do want it Al. It's really not something that should be overlooked nor scoffed at so easily.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Jun 25, 2013 06:10PM)
Another idea will be a plastic treasure chest. But I do not like the cost it would take to purchase so many of them that are big enough to hold the props. I picture the child keeping the props in the treasure on a regular basis.
Message: Posted by: Skip Way (Jun 25, 2013 08:54PM)
On the other hand, Mike, buy one plastic treasure chest for the birthday child and fill it with large magic gifts. Present it to the child before the other kids showing each item - especially if they're items you use in your show. Mention that's it's your birthday child gift pack and you'll have kid in the place asking forva Dynamike party.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Jun 25, 2013 09:31PM)
Sounds interesting Roger. You are right as always.
Message: Posted by: Skip Way (Jun 25, 2013 10:03PM)
Stupid iPad ... That should read " have every kid in the place..." Mike.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Jun 25, 2013 10:09PM)
I have been putting some research on most of what we have been discussing in this thread. I have been thinking back and forth narrowing it down to the following:

1. What is the need to be serious with the carrying item? No matter what it is, it might get thrown away anyway. The tricks are what the kids are going to keep. Have contact info on the tricks and instructions only, not worry about the carrying item.

2. Use a girl and boy design license bag on the following page: http://www.papermart.com/Product%20Pages/Product.aspx?GroupID=48804&SubGroupID=46439#46439 It is less likely the bags will be thrown away because of the design. Have your contact info on the bag since the child will enjoy saving the bag. (I believe the client will like this package the best)

3. Give a bag from the previous link to the birthday child only (with contact info). Give the other children a less expensive solid color bag (include contact info on the bag, tricks and instructions). (I think this package will help the birthday person feel more like the star. I bet it will help make a squeeze into receiving more business because of what Roger describes).

4. Have a colorful bag made with your graphic design imprinted. Have magic designs printed too on the bag. If designed right, the kid might keep it. It might be a little pricey. Don't know which company prints them out.
Message: Posted by: Magician Shaun (Jan 21, 2014 01:26PM)
I wanted to add something I have been thinking about. Everyone is thinking about printing contact information on stuff that the kids keep. Problem is kids don't hire us. We need to get the contact information into the hands of the adults on something they will keep.

My thought is that instead of printing your contact information onto the magic trick instructions don't include any instructions at all. Put a card in the bag that says the instructions are available on your website @ http://yourwebsite.com/Magic-Trick-Instructions. Then require that someone 18 or older sign up with a valid email address to access the instructions. When they sign up they get added to your mailing list. Now the parent who signed up for the instructions will get your news letter, email offers, etc. It will save you money on print costs as well.

To make sure it feels like you are giving the instructions this way to benefit them and not you, explain on the card that paper instructions often get lost and this ensures that can't happen.

How does that sound?
Message: Posted by: Starrpower (Jan 21, 2014 01:33PM)
Sounds good in theory, Shaun, but the problem is people are put off by jumping through hoops. When I get to a site that expects me to sign up, I move along. I get too much crap in my email inbox as is, and when I register for a site I come to expect more.

[b]So what DOES beat a goody bag?[/b] [i]A personally authored book, signed by the the author (YOU!)[/i]

I used to use goody bags. It took time to buy supplies, manage inventory, put them together, carry them to the show, etc. (along with all the other negatives stated herein). And Al was right; it sometimes comes down to time vs $$, and time wins.

Now I keep a supply of personally written and illustrated magic books. They are easy to carry, I can always have a bunch on hand in my car or case, and there is NO time at all taken to put them together. And it DOESN'T GET THROWN AWAY! They KEEP your contact info.

As an added bonus, I can sell them at other events, like Cub Scout shows, fairs, and festivals. It's a winner!

[img]http://www.magicmark.com/images/bookpic1.jpg[/img]
Message: Posted by: Potty the Pirate (Jan 21, 2014 02:06PM)
Beat it all, by making sure ALL the members of EVERY audience remember you by NAME.

Marketing starts with your stage name, and the name of your act.
Message: Posted by: Starrpower (Jan 21, 2014 02:16PM)
But Doug, I think they were talking about some upsells and making a few extra dollars (or pounds or pence or whatever you chaps call it) at birthdays, as opposed to strict marketing. As I read this thread, getting your name on the stuff is only ONE aspect of the discussion.

Get a book. You'll be glad you did.

[img]http://www.magicmark.com/images/bookpic1.jpg[/img]
Message: Posted by: RNK (Jan 21, 2014 02:20PM)
[quote]
On 2014-01-21 15:06, Potty the Pirate wrote:
Beat it all, by making sure ALL the members of EVERY audience remember you by NAME.

Marketing starts with your stage name, and the name of your act.

[/quote]

True.

I have never gave out goody bags since I have began performing. I have never been asked if I supply goody bags. I think if you perform a solid/fun show then a goody bag is not going to make a difference. Though, I do see advantages of handing them out. Especially if you have your name included somewhere in there. Though, I feel in the end- you will be remembered from the impression you made on the audience during your show not the goody bag you handed out.

RNK
Message: Posted by: Starrpower (Jan 21, 2014 04:00PM)
I think you guys are missing the point of this thread (either that, or I am). It's not to "seal the deal". It's not intended to be a primary marketing tool. It's not to provide you with your primary source of income, buy you a summer home, or provide you with a comfortable retirement. If that is all you are getting from this thread, then I agree with you: it is not effective to rely on a goody bag to make a living.

But I don't think that's the point.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Jan 21, 2014 05:04PM)
[quote]
On 2014-01-21 14:26, Magician Shaun wrote:
I wanted to add something I have been thinking about. Everyone is thinking about printing contact information on stuff that the kids keep. Problem is kids don't hire us. We need to get the contact information into the hands of the adults on something they will keep.

My thought is that instead of printing your contact information onto the magic trick instructions don't include any instructions at all. Put a card in the bag that says the instructions are available on your website @ http://yourwebsite.com/Magic-Trick-Instructions. Then require that someone 18 or older sign up with a valid email address to access the instructions. When they sign up they get added to your mailing list. Now the parent who signed up for the instructions will get your news letter, email offers, etc. It will save you money on print costs as well.

To make sure it feels like you are giving the instructions this way to benefit them and not you, explain on the card that paper instructions often get lost and this ensures that can't happen.

How does that sound?
[/quote]
Excellent idea Shaun. I am surprised no one thought of that idea after all this time. I did purchase a kit dealing with how to making the magic trick book yourself. You are right, your idea will save a lot of money. The parents will have the option of printing the illustrated instructions themselves. Just put a code on a certain page of a website to get in. It can be optional if they would like to register becoming part of the magic club.

The biggest disadvantage I see is if the code spreads out at the party, encouraging parents to spend no money, just ask their relative what the code is.

The coloring book is a good idea too Mark. It will include puzzles in the book too.
Message: Posted by: thomhaha (Jan 21, 2014 07:17PM)
Mike, I appreciate the way you framed the question. Without reducing the fun of the goodies, how can the goodies in the bag remind the kids - and more importantly their parents - about your show?

I come from the generation that expected toys in my cereal box. All fo those toys were related to the character advertising the cereal. It's called branding - and I certainly wanted to collect the whole set of those plastic toys.

Years ago among performers it was the coloring sheet - a black and white caricature of the performer with the perofrmer's contact info. Circuses still sell generic coloring books with their cover. Those wantignto give out toys emphsized how easy is to "print your own labels at home" and sticking them to any give-away. Balloon twisters gave out a 1/3 sheet on how to twist a dog (so when the one they gave out came apart someone might figure out how to restore it). If a magician is forcing a card, then why not give the card away as a souvenier, and have contact info on that card.

These days, you can get your name / logo / contact info embellished on just about anything. I'm fortunate to know a local printer. We've put logos, themes. contatc info on canvas bags, beach balls, frizbees, Christmas ornaments; he also works with us making banners for special events. In return, we carry his business cards with us.

So I think this comes to two questions. 1: what goodies best represent you and your show? 2: what items can you get your name (and any other info) onto? Those may be chicken and egg questions.

The balance is selling a service to the party planner (it's one thing off their to-do list). making it soemthing the kids who get it enjoy it, and maximizing it as a promotion to potential future shows. Commendable as a business endeavor.
Message: Posted by: thekidsmagician (Jan 22, 2014 01:49AM)
I would suggest the first thing to decide is what problem you are actually solving for the person booking you by providing goody bags or something similar.

Rather than looking at it primarily as a way of making extra money, first think about what value you can add to the booker. Then think about what you can include in goody bags to make that added value appeal to the person booking you, and not as an obvious ploy "just" to make more money (not suggesting that's what anyone does).

Instead of a goody bag, I offer a "Learn Magic" DVD - 45-minutes of magic tuition for children teaching simple but fun magic tricks. I'm on the DVD teaching the tricks and my contact details are on the DVD cover. (It's not one of those impersonal, generic, "hands-only-in-view" DVD's - it has me on it because I want the people watching it to relate to me and get to know me.)

The main advantage with the DVD is it gets the kids (and parents who also watch it with the child) getting to know me and (hopefully!) liking me because of how much fun the DVD is to watch. I get a LOT of e-mails from parents telling me how many times their kid has watched the DVD and how much fun they've had making and practising some of the tricks.

A DVD has a huge added value (both perceived and actual) compared to a regular goody bag and it helps kids and (more importantly) parents get to know you. And it's really not too hard to put a DVD together and duplicate it.

Just my thoughts. :)

- Mike
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Jan 22, 2014 03:58AM)
[quote]
On 2014-01-22 02:49, thekidsmagician wrote:
Instead of a goody bag, I offer a "Learn Magic" DVD - 45-minutes of magic tuition for children teaching simple but fun magic tricks. I'm on the DVD teaching the tricks and my contact details are on the DVD cover. (It's not one of those impersonal, generic, "hands-only-in-view" DVD's - it has me on it because I want the people watching it to relate to me and get to know me.)

[/quote]
Another great idea is listed.
Message: Posted by: Starrpower (Jan 22, 2014 08:32AM)
I love that idea. I used to have a magic VHS tape out. It sold pretty well, and I had it in the display case at the restaurant where I worked. But I can't simply transfer it to DVD becasue I am obviously 15 years older (I have hair, for God's sake!) and the quality difference that exists on VHS.

As for those "hands" DVD, couldn't clever editing (intro and extro, maybe a few visual drop-ins) and a voiceover dub make that seem personal?
Message: Posted by: thekidsmagician (Jan 22, 2014 09:59AM)
[quote]
As for those "hands" DVD, couldn't clever editing (intro and extro, maybe a few visual drop-ins) and a voiceover dub make that seem personal?
[/quote]

Hi Starrpower, yes you could absolutely do that.

I decided to make one with me on (face, hands etc.) as I want people to buy into "me" rather than buying into a generic magician. Visual drop-ins, voiceovers could work as well (I would imagine not as strongly, but that's based on my own assumptions rather than hard facts and data!)

The other advantage is that a personal DVD is truly unique. I used to have the birthday child's name on the DVD menu as well, but stopped doing that due to increased volume of shows. In my area (South West UK) I know of a few other magicians who use one of the generic "hands-only" DVD's. I didn't want to be seen as offering the same thing as them. And if any of them get hold of my DVD, they can't replicate it easily - they'd have to film it and edit their own one from scratch.

It's personal preference, but there was very specific reasons I did it my way...honest! :)

- Mike
Message: Posted by: Neznarf (Jan 22, 2014 10:48AM)
http://www.prestomagicproducts.com/
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Jan 22, 2014 11:03AM)
[quote]
On 2014-01-22 11:48, Neznarf wrote:
http://www.prestomagicproducts.com/
[/quote]
Yep, I already purchased his products last year. He is very helpful too. But instead of printing out so many booklets with the instructions, include a DVD instead. Plus include a code on the DVD so the individual can learn some bonus tricks from your website.
Message: Posted by: Starrpower (Jan 22, 2014 11:48AM)
[quote]
On 2014-01-22 10:59, thekidsmagician wrote:It's personal preference, but there was very specific reasons I did it my way...honest! :)
[/quote]

I think it's a great approach! It's the same reasoning I used for authoring my own magic book.

Also, look at my pictures above, and compare that to the pictures in the "Presto" book. Which looks more engaging, interesting, and "kid friendly"? After all, I have the intelligence and social skills of an 8 year old, and I know what [i]I'd[/i] prefer!
Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (Jan 22, 2014 12:02PM)
I have a question for those who want to embed a youtube video on their website (teaching tricks). Can you make it so that the video is hidden on youtube (from the general public), but shows up on your site only for people to watch?

The reason I ask, is I recall the controversy about another magician who had teaching videos (him teaching basic magic tricks) on youtube, but their main use was for his member-only website (kids fan club / magic club), and he was accused of exposing tricks because people could watch the videos directly on youtube.

- Donald
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Jan 22, 2014 12:09PM)
Donald, there are two ways you can make the video private on YouTube. One way is no one will see it publicly unless they know the exact url. It will not show up to anyone when viewing the videos you uploaded unless you tell them the exact url. The other way is you must add a person's email address to watch the video. They might know the url, but it still will not play unless their email is added by you so they get permission to watch it.
Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (Jan 22, 2014 12:21PM)
Can you still embed a youtube video (on a webpage) when you've set it as private on youtube itself?

- Donald
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Jan 22, 2014 12:47PM)
I am not positive about that. I know there is software that is made well to embed videos. RealPlayer is one of them.
Message: Posted by: thekidsmagician (Jan 22, 2014 01:40PM)
[quote]
On 2014-01-22 13:02, Donald Dunphy wrote:
I have a question for those who want to embed a youtube video on their website (teaching tricks). Can you make it so that the video is hidden on youtube (from the general public), but shows up on your site only for people to watch?
- Donald
[/quote]

Hi Donald, I don't think you can. You can set a YouTube video as 'Private' or 'Not Linked' (which won't show up on a YouTube search) but as soon as you embed it on a website anyone can then click on that and get taken to the YouTube website to watch it.

If you want to add video to your website and not have it available to view anywhere else, YouTube isn't really the best option - Vimeo or Wistia are better for that, although you have to pay for the service.

- Mike
Message: Posted by: thekidsmagician (Jan 22, 2014 01:41PM)
[quote]
On 2014-01-22 13:21, Donald Dunphy wrote:
Can you still embed a youtube video (on a webpage) when you've set it as private on youtube itself?

- Donald
[/quote]

No (I just tried it and it tells you to change the setting to Unlisted).

- Mike
Message: Posted by: Starrpower (Jan 22, 2014 01:57PM)
Is it really that big of a deal? I mean, how is showing tricks to kids on your site much different from having it publicly viewable at the Youtube site? I am not being contentious here, that is a legitimate question.

It seems that someone is no more or less "qualified" to view a magic lesson on Youtube than they are on a magician's personal website. Yeah, they might be marginally more likely to stumble across it at Youtube. So the magician acts as a gatekeeper; is he really qualifying anyone? Other than the fact they they have seen him, or heard about him, so they went to his website, they are no more or less entitled to see a "secret" than the guy who sees it on Youtube.

Additionally, who are these "holier than thou" magicians who point the accusatory finger? Let 'em be annoyed. In the big picture, who really cares if a handful of magic police accuse a guy of exposing magic.