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Topic: Ash-Diary of an 8 year old schizophrenic
Message: Posted by: Roth (Dec 26, 2013 04:28PM)
I dropped some skinny on another thread and want to post about the darkest creepiest book Outlaw has ever done.

Ash is a Case Study produced by Johns Hopkins Conte institute for the study of childhood schizophrenia. Childhood schizophrenia is a real albite extremely rare occurrence. Cases under the age of 10 are considered the rarest and most damaging occurrences of this sickness.

In 1957 an 8 year old appeared fairly normal except for some mild social issues. She received a diary from her mother that Christmas.

She was diligent about writing in her diary at first. The in early March there was a tragic car accident and her Mother was killed.

Shortly after the accident she starts to mention a new friend named Ash in her diary. The diary entries start to change and grow darker and darker. Little drawings become more and more disturbing as her "relationship" with Ash evolves into the depths of her schizophrenia.

She resents her father for working all the time. This is a man that has nearly shut down from the grief of losing his wife.

His sister, moves into the house to help care for her. This infuriates her who thinks the Aunt is trying to replace her Mommy.

Ash is a journey into the mind of a deeply disturbed child schizophrenic and her eventual surrender to her madness.

In 1975 the actual diary was acquired by a Psychiatrist at the Conte Institute. He was so taken with the book he felt it should be a case study.

In 1977 the diary was re-produced as a hard cover Case Study.

The Case study book is color scans page by page of the Diary.

The scans are of actual hand printed and hand drawn pictures. Each case book comes with an "actual" hand written page from the original diary.

This is both a book test and a bizarre piece.

Contributions and routines from Vic Nadata, Bobby Hasbun and Gary Kreiss.

The book is a limited edition of 150 units. Each unit comes with the book, an original hand written diary page and a numbered certificate of authenticity.

Retail is $150 shipping the first of February

Starting today I'm offering a 10 day only pre-order price of $110

The webpage will be up shortly or you can contact me directly.

May the spirits haunt you!
-Rick
Message: Posted by: Todd Robbins (Dec 26, 2013 04:34PM)
Wonderfully evil.
Message: Posted by: piyuyu (Dec 26, 2013 05:17PM)
Just the premise of the story alone is the done deal for me.

But some of us will probably like to see some pictures of this soon. How it looks inside and outside.

It's good to feel excited again. :D
Message: Posted by: Godzilla (Dec 26, 2013 05:20PM)
I had my pre-pre-order in,before you started taking pre-orders! lol

Limited to 150,and will come with a COA correct ?
Message: Posted by: Roth (Dec 26, 2013 05:35PM)
[quote]
On 2013-12-26 18:20, Godzilla wrote:
I had my pre-pre-order in,before you started taking pre-orders! lol

Limited to 150,and will come with a COA correct ?
[/quote]
Yes.

I'll also post a page of the diary.
Message: Posted by: armymagic (Dec 26, 2013 05:43PM)
Wonderfully evil! When can we expect some images?
Message: Posted by: Sicnatius (Dec 26, 2013 06:02PM)
Hi Rick,

I really love the premise and by coincident it fits totally into a concept I wanted to try out.

Preordered!
Message: Posted by: Roth (Dec 26, 2013 06:10PM)
[quote]
On 2013-12-26 19:02, Sicnatius wrote:
Hi Rick,

I really love the premise and by coincident it fits totally into a concept I wanted to try out.

Preordered!
[/quote]
Thank you :)

I just want to note that the name Ash and Alice and the Hopkins University are for posting and webpage google protection.

Alice, Ash and Hopkins University are not the actual names on and in the book so feel free to refer to them as that.
Message: Posted by: revenantproductions (Dec 26, 2013 06:21PM)
Roth!

You and the crew are amazing!
Message: Posted by: Godzilla (Dec 26, 2013 07:06PM)
Will Ash,be larger than the Lun@ & RS ?
Does not matter,I'm taking sight unseen...but,curious ?
Message: Posted by: Roth (Dec 26, 2013 07:52PM)
[quote]
On 2013-12-26 20:06, Godzilla wrote:
Will Ash,be larger than the Lun@ & RS ?
Does not matter,I'm taking sight unseen...but,curious ?
[/quote]
A little bigger than the Luna HC.
Message: Posted by: george1953 (Dec 26, 2013 08:40PM)
Cant wait to see the images, sounds very nice.
Message: Posted by: MagiChrisMitch (Dec 26, 2013 08:40PM)
Roth
Can you divulge if this will is designed like Luna? pm
Message: Posted by: Roth (Dec 26, 2013 09:54PM)
[quote]
On 2013-12-26 21:40, MagiChrisMitch wrote:
Roth
Can you divulge if this will is designed like Luna? pm
[/quote]
I can tell you it does not use the Luna method or system.
Message: Posted by: bobbyhasbun (Dec 27, 2013 12:00AM)
I'm so excited for this!!
Message: Posted by: Sicnatius (Dec 27, 2013 02:32AM)
[quote]
On 2013-12-26 22:54, Roth wrote:
I can tell you it does not use the Luna method or system.
[/quote]

So it's like Lilian?? ;-)
Message: Posted by: A.J.Drake (Dec 27, 2013 04:16AM)
Is it a booktest, or something else?
Message: Posted by: Roth (Dec 27, 2013 04:47AM)
[quote]
On 2013-12-27 05:16, A.J.Drake wrote:
Is it a booktest, or something else?

[/quote]
Absolutely is.
Message: Posted by: Roth (Dec 27, 2013 05:12AM)
Here's a test page and I'll explain it a bit because I won't be posting many more here.

Her mother died suddenly 2 months after she started the diary. The first 2 months she was fairly normal, maybe a little odd at times, but she's eight.

The printing she did was nice, not great. The drawing somewhat accurate. At the point in the diary where this entry would be, it had been about 30 days since her mother died. Ash has been around the past 10 days at this point.

Her writing has gotten darker and odd at time, her artwork creepy (Typical scary kids style) has radically started to go down hill. That's the next 2 months and then it goes deeper and darker.

Hope ya like it :) BTW What you see below is the look of 50% of the book but the last part goes off the chart madness.
(this is larger than the actual page)
[img]http://s21.postimg.cc/3pdhzs5iv/2007_01_27_06_08_45.jpg[/img]
Message: Posted by: armymagic (Dec 27, 2013 01:12PM)
Ok, that page alone would seriously creep out some people! Loving it! Now to save money and somehow get this without the wife being the wiser!
Message: Posted by: themaurie (Dec 27, 2013 02:58PM)
Wow, wow, wow!

The new #1 item on my 2014 to do list!

Pre-ordering now.
Message: Posted by: Wizard of Oz (Dec 27, 2013 06:39PM)
Rick, while I'm sure the ultimate deliverable will be up to Outlaw's usual standards, can you give us more info regarding what you mean by...

"The Case study book is color scans page by page of the Diary. The scans are of actual hand printed and hand drawn pictures. Each case book comes with an "actual" hand written page from the original diary."

What do you mean by "scans?" Will these pages be treated differently than the rest of the book? Will they purposely look like scans and work themselves into the storyline? Personally, I love the idea of having a book that is NOT original...and just scans of the diary. It makes it more credible, and of course, the spirits can still be present. Then, am I to understand that you will include a single page that is an "actual page" from the diary? If so, a book of scanned pages and one "real" page seems very realistic s far as presentations go, and super creepy.
Message: Posted by: Mind Guerrilla (Dec 27, 2013 06:55PM)
In the other thread, it was said that some process was to be used to make the whole book look hand printed. I wonder what caused the change in plans.

I think something that looks like the real McCoy would be way creepier than a clinical case study. I wonder if purchasers will attempt to create their own hand written copies, in a larger-than-Luna scale.

If the book is supposedly a published case study (as opposed to some rare book), why make it a limited edition? Why not make it a PDF and tell buyers which color crayons they need to reproduce it (with the claim, perhaps, that the pages were obtained from the files a psychiatrist who worked on the case)?
Message: Posted by: reese (Dec 27, 2013 07:03PM)
I feel the same way as Oz. To me it's more credible as a case study instead of the entire actual artifact (cool as that would be)
Message: Posted by: Wizard of Oz (Dec 27, 2013 07:04PM)
Good points Mind Guerrila, but what I'm envisioning is a book that shows a more "modern" design, full of reproductions of a one-of-a-kind diary from years past, but also includes an "original" page from that very same document. And by original, I mean aged in the typical Outlaw way...which takes time and skill. So, that's what I was inquiring about. A PDF is fine, but a lot of us (well, let's just say "me") prefer having the work done for us. ('cause I'm lazy).

It could still be a limited edition for a number of reasons...limited distribution, limited audience (no one wants to hear about this kind of thing), or even a banned book which was shut down in production after a certain number of books. I'm guessing there's a best of both worlds here, I just want to know more.
Message: Posted by: Mind Guerrilla (Dec 27, 2013 07:28PM)
[quote]
On 2013-12-27 20:04, Wizard of Oz wrote:
...which takes time and skill. So, that's what I was inquiring about. A PDF is fine, but a lot of us (well, let's just say "me") prefer having the work done for us. ('cause I'm lazy).
[/quote]

Time, yes. As for skill, bear in mind that these are the crude drawings of a child.

How about a compromise: a limited edition PDF (with free crayons to the first 50 customers). ;)
Message: Posted by: Godzilla (Dec 27, 2013 07:30PM)
Holy Crap...what's next,they used a incorrect color of crayon in the 50's ?
Its an effect! :)
And,lets keep it all on one thread in the Spooky,and one thread in the Crypt!(when it gets there!)
I'm tired of looking 6 different places for everything,and someone always wanting to start a new thread! lol
Message: Posted by: Mind Guerrilla (Dec 27, 2013 07:39PM)
Another reason why someone might not want to present it as a published study: specs who become so fascinated by your presentation that they are then inspired to research the case on their own after the show. Claiming your source to be from the private file of, say, a deceased psychiatrist friend, would head this off at the pass.
Message: Posted by: Roth (Dec 27, 2013 07:54PM)
Oz I agree with you. The book is hand written. We will then do high Res. scans of the pages and compose it into the diary/case study.
It will include an actual page of the diary with each book.

For me it solved two issues. The first brought up by Mindguerrilla (can faking hand written be pulled off) spooked me, don't blame MG :)

A printed "hand written" book may look real to some people, and we think it could pass the test, but to be honest, I don't want even one person saying "I'm not sure it passes 100% as hand written" I don't want that to happen.

If its one page maybe it would be fine, but 160 pages and I don't know if it would hold up.

The other thing is "credible acquisition". It is more credible to have acquired one of 40 case study books printed by a University in the late 70's, than to have acquired this highly special and unusual actual diary.

(BTW the idea of making it a Case Study came from the very brilliant Vic Nadata)

That said, I met with my printer today and this book is more money to produce than I thought. Its a one up book and its double sided color printing (even though it has very limited color in it) with expensive paper.

It is close to the size of Ipswich.

The end result of my meeting with my printer today is this.

Until Jan. 5th it will stay $110 on pre-order.

From the 5th to the 15th it goes to $125 pre-order.

The 15th it goes to full price of $175 shipped. Yes I said $150 originally, but it would not be worth it to produce and sell at that price. My margin is not big and of course its all original art and it is hand written. Huge amount of time producing it.

As far as limited edition goes 10 have sold so I should probably stick with the Limited edition :)

I feel 150 units is a good run.
Message: Posted by: Roth (Dec 28, 2013 02:13AM)
An interesting entry here.

[img]http://s22.postimg.cc/cu3zi3of5/2007_01_28_02_26_49.jpg[/img]
Message: Posted by: Yann SICAMOIS (Dec 28, 2013 02:25AM)
Hello,

Seems like a perfect time to get this gem after a long Outlaw break.

Looking forward to receiving it.

Cheers.
Message: Posted by: Intrepid (Dec 28, 2013 03:45AM)
[quote]
On 2013-12-27 20:54, Roth wrote:
As far as limited edition goes 10 have sold so I should probably stick with the Limited edition :)

I feel 150 units is a good run.
[/quote]
Always a good business practice to stick to your promises. Besides mail order fraud is a Federal offense.
Message: Posted by: Mind Guerrilla (Dec 28, 2013 09:13AM)
[quote]
On 2013-12-27 20:54, Roth wrote:
For me it solved two issues. The first brought up by Mindguerrilla (can faking hand written be pulled off) spooked me, don't blame MG :)
[/quote]

Oh, they like to blame me for everything. You can't stop them. ;) I am probably more sensitive to these issues because, in my former job with the government, my duties included the detection of fraudulent documents. So, I may not be the best person to ask regarding what would pass muster with Joe Public.

Simulated handwriting is difficult to pull off due to the lack of impressions/indentations typically made by the pressure of pen (or hard pencil) on paper. These can create a change in the paper's texture and reflectivity.

A recent mainstream effort to carry off simulated handwriting is the book "S" by JJ Abrams, discussed in this other thread:
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=531952&forum=14&20

In "S," I think they tried to get around the impressions/indentations issue by making many of the notations appear to be from colored markers, instead of ballpoint pens. This, however, created another issue i.e. the lack of bleed-through on the other side of the thin paper used. If thicker paper had been used, or if the notations looked like they had been produced by soft, colored pencils, the effect may have been more convincing.
Message: Posted by: jstreiff (Dec 28, 2013 10:46AM)
This type of effect involving a journal of an unfortunate person led me to a thought which I am sure has been discussed before. Such people, especially children, often exhibit external manifestations of their psychopathology. On of these manifests as psychokinesis; in other words, poltergeist activity. I would make a great deal of sense from a parapsychology persective therefore to present macro-PK as poltergeist activity during the performance. Any of the devices available could be used as methods. This would work especially well in a darker than lighter setting (both of context and illumination) although it could be played well on stage as well. The book establishes the story, the story the context, and the context the opportunity. We can thank the ghost hunting community for providing some credibility to the backstory which can be effectively leveraged using this and similar props.
Message: Posted by: ZoOpDoG (Dec 28, 2013 11:44AM)
Lills D1ary does a great job with the handwriting look. It is more than adequate to fool a spec in a dimly lit room. Not right for this effect maybe but my point being hand written will pass. You could always trace over the images with crayon or pencils (I think someone mentioned this already) but it is definitely believable as a case study.
[img]http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j304/zoopdog/ld1_zps65cf1a89.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j304/zoopdog/ld2_zpsf9f174c5.jpg[/img]
Message: Posted by: themaurie (Dec 28, 2013 12:37PM)
Ordered and excited!
Message: Posted by: spindoc (Dec 28, 2013 12:58PM)
[quote]
On 2013-12-27 20:54, Roth wrote:
Oz I agree with you. The book is hand written. We will then do high Res. scans of the pages and compose it into the diary/case study.
It will include an actual page of the diary with each book.

For me it solved two issues. The first brought up by Mindguerrilla (can faking hand written be pulled off) spooked me, don't blame MG :)

A printed "hand written" book may look real to some people, and we think it could pass the test, but to be honest, I don't want even one person saying "I'm not sure it passes 100% as hand written" I don't want that to happen.

If its one page maybe it would be fine, but 160 pages and I don't know if it would hold up.
[/quote]

I agree with Roth's analysis. Presenting this item as a scanned reproduction of the original works for me. It is more likely that I would have such a copy in my possession than the original diary. As for the limited number of copies, it could very well be that the psychiatrist in question had them privately printed (for a small number of close colleagues) after the University rejected the study for publication. Too bizarre or sensational perhaps. This would also eliminate the possibility of an inquisitive spec trying to locate the published study online.
Message: Posted by: ZoOpDoG (Dec 28, 2013 01:29PM)
....and since it deals with a child it is highly believable that the copies would be limited to a professional circle. Any copies that got out would certainly not be legal to sell. A child's medical records not being out there for anyone to buy is very believable no matter how old. Maybe you got it at an estate sale in a box of books or cleaning out the attic at a parents house after they had passed away etc. I use estate sale a lot as most times the family comes in and knows nothing about the books so they make boxes of them and sell um in lots. I like books to look old but taken care of but depending on how this is aged it works either way. Maybe you saw it in the trash at the estate sale and asked about it. They said you could have that nasty ol thing if you wanted it - etc.
Message: Posted by: Godzilla (Dec 28, 2013 01:57PM)
I also think the case study is a very cool way to present this and it can be done both as straight mentalism and bizarre!

I bought the book after PMing Roth,after the first post was made,and getting some more skinny!
The book has some blank pages in the front and back,that should be used for making "annotations" by one of the people that studied the case.

This will also add credibility of the books origin,and have real writing in it. :)

I'm ready to see what's on her mind !
Message: Posted by: Mind Guerrilla (Dec 28, 2013 02:12PM)
[quote]
On 2013-12-28 12:44, ZoOpDoG wrote:
Lills D1ary does a great job with the handwriting look. It is more than adequate to fool a spec in a dimly lit room.
[/quote]
The look maybe but not the feel. We'll have to agree to disagree on how adequate this effect is to fool a spec. A room can only be so dim if you want someone to read a book. Handling the book is another issue. If you have someone leaf through it, I don't think it unlikely that they'd notice how unusually smooth/flat the pages are for a personal diary. Just because the spec doesn't point this out doesn't necessarily mean s/he was fooled.
Message: Posted by: ZoOpDoG (Dec 28, 2013 03:16PM)
In the case of the diary and I believe ash, I am under the impression it is a printed version of handwritten material so it would not have the indentations or roughness.

The diary reprinted from notes asembled by the great luna rose and ash I am assuming by the doctor from his notes and her drawings. The textured paper used in the diary adds a roughness that would mask ink - indent well if you wanted to say it was the original.
Message: Posted by: Sicnatius (Dec 28, 2013 06:14PM)
I just read through the discussion and to me it reads a little like it's about running without being chased.
Selling it as a case study is brilliant, since minimum 99% of the people we'll be presenting this to, well have never ever had their hands on a real psychological case study from that time. So they can't tell if it's genuine at all, so if you don't present it like an idiot (I have this totally ungaffed book that my cursed grandfather gave me blablabla...) They won't be suspicious at all. Even if someone may be, the other 99% won't question it.
Message: Posted by: Roth (Dec 28, 2013 06:45PM)
Because of her age this case study would have been anonymous. The book cover will have case study A**** M. on the cover

For additional credibility there will be a website written by one of the "case study participants". You will have that website address. How you use it is up to you.

On another note. The $110 pre-sale price is killing me. I know how much this book costs to produce and way more than I want to sell at this price are being bought.

Fair warning. New Years day the pre-order will go to $125. I'll keep it there through the 10th and then it goes to full retail $175

Thanks guys and I'm really enjoying the discussion going on here.

BTW there will be some additional material and possibly something from Vic Nadata :) that can be purchased to further enhance your presentations
Message: Posted by: Dougini (Dec 28, 2013 06:55PM)
Wayyy outta my price range. Even at $110. But I am SO glad to see this. Back when I had money, I would have EVERYTHING Outlaw produces....and I do mean EVERYTHING.

Doug
Message: Posted by: Godzilla (Dec 28, 2013 08:06PM)
[quote]
On 2013-12-28 19:45, Roth wrote:


On another note. The $110 pre-sale price is killing me. I know how much this book costs to produce and way more than I want to sell at this price are being bought.

[/quote]

Rick,we love ya!
But,I hope you do not get rich on this! lol

I might buy another...

I hope every last one sells out,before FEB. release! :)
Message: Posted by: afinemesh (Dec 28, 2013 09:50PM)
This is a really creepy looking book, Rick! Well done (again)!
Message: Posted by: Mind Guerrilla (Dec 30, 2013 01:09AM)
[quote]
On 2013-12-28 22:50, afinemesh wrote:
This is a really creepy looking book, Rick! Well done (again)!
[/quote]
You've seen the book? You're going to make some of us (who have only seen the pages posted on this thread) jealous! :) Did you see a prototype or the actual finished product? Could you give a more detailed review to those of us who are still on the fence about this? I was curious as to whether the images are printed in portrait or landscape orientation and was wondering what the non-diary portions of the book look like. Thanks!
Message: Posted by: Doc Ben (Dec 31, 2013 03:37PM)
Having dealt with many "case study" materials, research reports, and hospital records of adults and juveniles over a 45 plus year career in the mental health "industry", I believe the idea of the colection of a scanned volume and a single page original is Brilliant...and any spec who doesn't accept it as 90%+ as credibly and likely as the "real deal" is, imho, such a skeptic, that I would not even want to perform for them....as they would have little to no ability to temporarily suspend judgement for the sake of an entertainment or a curious or mysterious "experiment" in "human psychology and suggestion".
I can't to get my hands on Ash,...and that is after I had vowed to hold any more such purchasess until later in 2014.....ha, ha...my resolution was blown before the New Year even began...!
Message: Posted by: Roth (Jan 1, 2014 06:34PM)
Here you see the progression of her illness as she sinks deeper and deeper.
she begins seeing her deceased Mother. Hallucinations both visual and audio are not uncommon in schizophrenics.

April- one month after her mother dies

July- three months later

[img]http://s29.postimg.cc/9klqpt6c7/2007_01_27_06_08_45.jpg[/img]

[img]http://s29.postimg.cc/don61oj87/2007_01_01_00_57_24.jpg[/img]

Oddly the paper is the same color in both pictures. Weird lightening :)
Message: Posted by: Godzilla (Jan 1, 2014 07:58PM)
I can't wait for this !
We We We We We Can't wait for this!
Message: Posted by: armymagic (Jan 1, 2014 08:16PM)
Mid February, that's all I can think of, delivery date of beginning to kid February! So excited, can't wait to see the finished product!
Message: Posted by: Sicnatius (Jan 2, 2014 01:49AM)
Oh wow, that's really disturbing and if that is in the progression I really want to see how the final ones look like. Wish I could already have it here!
Message: Posted by: guyactor (Jan 2, 2014 02:28AM)
Ordered!
Message: Posted by: Godzilla (Jan 7, 2014 04:01PM)
Guys & Dolls,time is running out on getting this at $50.00 less,than after the tenth!
Message: Posted by: Chris Meece (Jan 8, 2014 01:30AM)
Absolutely gorgeous. I need to become independently wealthy just so I can buy everything you put out.
Message: Posted by: armymagic (Jan 8, 2014 06:15AM)
Since discovering outlaw a couple if years ago, I have always said that if I won the lottery or other ridiculous amount if money, I would immediately put in an order for two of every effect outlaw has. It's nice to dream....
Message: Posted by: docdazzal (Jan 8, 2014 11:57AM)
Hi All...

I'm really liking this item...and I think the case study "copies" is a fantastic idea. However, and I don't mean to nit-pick...but in Rick's sample above the little (mentally challenged) 8 year old girl...correctly spelled "picture.." Would this be OK in our sample context of this little girl...? Or would she spell the word more phonetically i.e. "pitcer..."? Or other simplified spelling...? In addition...she is spelling other words correctly throughout the content of her diary. Or does it really matter...or would a spectator even care...or notice...?


Continued Success,
Dan
Message: Posted by: Chris Meece (Jan 8, 2014 12:12PM)
Dan,

I was never a great speller growing up but I believe I knew how to correctly spell the word picture by age 8. Probably running without being chased. However, it is never a bad idea to question things like this; it keeps us sharp.
Message: Posted by: Roth (Jan 8, 2014 12:44PM)
[quote]
On 2014-01-08 12:57, docdazzal wrote:
Hi All...

I'm really liking this item...and I think the case study "copies" is a fantastic idea. However, and I don't mean to nit-pick...but in Rick's sample above the little (mentally challenged) 8 year old girl...correctly spelled "picture.." Would this be OK in our sample context of this little girl...? Or would she spell the word more phonetically i.e. "pitcer..."? Or other simplified spelling...? In addition...she is spelling other words correctly throughout the content of her diary. Or does it really matter...or would a spectator even care...or notice...?


Continued Success,
Dan
[/quote]
Actually , good catch Doc on the spelling. that's only a couple of entries. There are many mis-spelled words in the book. The book starts off very well written (for an 8 year old) and then entries, spelling, pictures, start to degrade as the book goes on.

Its a very visual transition. You can flip through from start to finish and see her illness progress in a rather startling way after the passing of her mother.
Message: Posted by: docdazzal (Jan 8, 2014 02:44PM)
Thank You Rick...

This is a really cool take on a book test...my order is on its way.


All the Best,
Dan
Message: Posted by: Brynmore14 (Jan 9, 2014 03:24PM)
http://cthulhureborn.wordpress.com/2013/06/02/font-of-all-madness/

An interesting article on creating fonts that replicate a persons hand writing in various stages of their descent into madness.
Message: Posted by: Godzilla (Jan 10, 2014 03:53PM)
With this being a case study of a youth with Mental Health Issue's,I hope there is added accounts,of what (Can Not) be explained by Science,in the study too! (Paranormal)

@ Brynmore 14 ,thanks for the link!
Message: Posted by: george1953 (Jan 10, 2014 08:56PM)
Thanks for the link, interesting stuff.
Message: Posted by: Sicnatius (Jan 10, 2014 09:37PM)
That was an interesting read, thanks for sharing.
Message: Posted by: Godzilla (Jan 15, 2014 05:22PM)
Hopes of Ash,becoming my #1 go to !

It just seems,She has such a 'Creepy' factor going with her ! :)
Message: Posted by: Remarkable Marco (Jan 17, 2014 04:33AM)
Gee, it must have been, what, 3-4 days since I've ordered anything from Outlaw, I thought I was doing well with my addition, maybe I could make it a full week I said, well, then I started looking into ASH, gee, why don't they have methadone for Outlaw's effects?
Message: Posted by: Wizard of Oz (Jan 17, 2014 08:22PM)
Perhaps their logo should be a syringe.
Message: Posted by: spookyone (Jan 17, 2014 08:46PM)
Whoa, this is so cool. How weird is it that I Just happened to come across an article about this supposed book yesterday?! Is this based on an actual, real diary from a little girl? Or was the whole thing made up for this B00k T3st and someone found it and thought it was real? Either way, sounds awesome. It's been awhile since I've added anything to my collection, hmm...lol
Message: Posted by: Godzilla (Jan 20, 2014 09:59PM)
Waiting for Ash,is making me me me me Crazy !
Message: Posted by: niva (Jan 30, 2014 05:37AM)
Is this a limited edition? And' it's not out yet?
Message: Posted by: Sicnatius (Jan 30, 2014 05:42AM)
Hi niva,

it's limited to 150 and according to Roth it will start shipping in February.
Message: Posted by: niva (Jan 30, 2014 06:47AM)
Thanks. :)
Message: Posted by: Doc Ben (Jan 30, 2014 08:01AM)
Can't wait for February....be my "Valentine"....Ash...!
Message: Posted by: Sicnatius (Jan 30, 2014 08:16AM)
[quote]
On 2014-01-30 09:01, Wizard Benjamin wrote:
Can't wait for February....be my "Valentine"....Ash...!
[/quote]

That's bizarre, even for this place :)
Message: Posted by: critter (Jan 30, 2014 12:22PM)
A sane person is many times more likely to murder you than one with schizophrenia. If you're going to fear a group of people, fear the sane.
Message: Posted by: Al Desmond (Jan 30, 2014 02:55PM)
[quote]
On 2014-01-30 13:22, critter wrote:
A sane person is many times more likely to murder you than one with schizophrenia. If you're going to fear a group of people, fear the sane.
[/quote]

And just to add to your comment. You are correct. Schizophrenics are not generally violent, not towards other people. They can physically be a danger to themselves. And they are capable of anger and lashing out no different than another human.

I learned a lot about schizophrenia when I adapted the 1963 book "I Never Promised You a Rose Garden" to the stage. The book was a autobiographic work, couched in fiction. The author was author Joanne Greenberg. I had the opportunity to meet with Joanne many times while I was developing the script and talk to her about her battle with schizophrenia. She is 83 years old now. And now saner than most of us.

http://www.broadwayworld.com/denver/article/Photo-Flash-First-Look-at-Miners-Alley-Playhouses-I-NEVER-PROMISED-YOU-A-ROSE-GARDEN-20130914

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Never_Promised_You_a_Rose_Garden_%28play%29
Message: Posted by: Godzilla (Jan 30, 2014 04:16PM)
[quote]
On 2014-01-30 13:22, critter wrote:
A sane person is many times more likely to murder you than one with schizophrenia. If you're going to fear a group of people, fear the sane.
[/quote]


Not,if the schizophrenic is possessed...and,has a Demon entity helping out! :)
This can be done as straight Mentalism,or Bizarre!

Or,Her Sane Father,is the Culprit!
You,write the Patter! :)
Message: Posted by: Doc Ben (Jan 31, 2014 08:42PM)
[quote]
On 2014-01-30 09:16, Sicnatius wrote:
[quote]
On 2014-01-30 09:01, Wizard Benjamin wrote:
Can't wait for February....be my "Valentine"....Ash...!
[/quote]

That's bizarre, even for this place :)
[/quote]
Yes,...overboard....I am working on some ideas with Lil's Di*#y so may have been bizarrely influenced..!
Message: Posted by: Doc Ben (Jan 31, 2014 08:50PM)
[quote]
On 2014-01-30 15:55, Al Desmond wrote:
[quote]
On 2014-01-30 13:22, critter wrote:
A sane person is many times more likely to murder you than one with schizophrenia. If you're going to fear a group of people, fear the sane.
[/quote]

And just to add to your comment. You are correct. Schizophrenics are not generally violent, not towards other people. They can physically be a danger to themselves. And they are capable of anger and lashing out no different than another human.

I learned a lot about schizophrenia when I adapted the 1963 book "I Never Promised You a Rose Garden" to the stage. The book was a autobiographic work, couched in fiction. The author was author Joanne Greenberg. I had the opportunity to meet with Joanne many times while I was developing the script and talk to her about her battle with schizophrenia. She is 83 years old now. And now saner than most of us.

http://www.broadwayworld.com/denver/article/Photo-Flash-First-Look-at-Miners-Alley-Playhouses-I-NEVER-PROMISED-YOU-A-ROSE-GARDEN-20130914

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Never_Promised_You_a_Rose_Garden_%28play%29

[/quote]
A basic principle of human psychology is that in "analyzing" any behavior, one must realize there is a contiunuum of "individual differences" accounting for variation.....and this applies to those who are diagnosed with "schizophrenia"..... (they are not their label)...so violence is found in a small part of that population.
However, on the contrary, ....in a large number of heinous, bizzare violent acts, the perpetrator could be seriously mentally ill in a higher percent of incidents.
Message: Posted by: niva (Feb 3, 2014 01:36AM)
I was wondering, is the case study too long, or can you read the whole thing with the audience?
Message: Posted by: Al Desmond (Feb 3, 2014 08:59AM)
[quote]
On 2014-01-31 21:50, Wizard Benjamin wrote:
[quote]
On 2014-01-30 15:55, Al Desmond wrote:
[quote]
On 2014-01-30 13:22, critter wrote:
A sane person is many times more likely to murder you than one with schizophrenia. If you're going to fear a group of people, fear the sane.
[/quote]

And just to add to your comment. You are correct. Schizophrenics are not generally violent, not towards other people. They can physically be a danger to themselves. And they are capable of anger and lashing out no different than another human.

I learned a lot about schizophrenia when I adapted the 1963 book "I Never Promised You a Rose Garden" to the stage. The book was a autobiographic work, couched in fiction. The author was author Joanne Greenberg. I had the opportunity to meet with Joanne many times while I was developing the script and talk to her about her battle with schizophrenia. She is 83 years old now. And now saner than most of us.

http://www.broadwayworld.com/denver/article/Photo-Flash-First-Look-at-Miners-Alley-Playhouses-I-NEVER-PROMISED-YOU-A-ROSE-GARDEN-20130914

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Never_Promised_You_a_Rose_Garden_%28play%29

[/quote]
A basic principle of human psychology is that in "analyzing" any behavior, one must realize there is a contiunuum of "individual differences" accounting for variation.....and this applies to those who are diagnosed with "schizophrenia"..... (they are not their label)...so violence is found in a small part of that population.
However, on the contrary, ....in a large number of heinous, bizzare violent acts, the perpetrator could be seriously mentally ill in a higher percent of incidents.
[/quote]

That's why I said "generally" and a lot of those "individual differences" are what the person is capable of, ill or not. What I most rail against is those that assume without knowledge that schizophrenic are violent. And it really gets in my craw when folks continually confuse schizophrenia with MPD (multiple personality disorder). A schizophrenic does not have multiple personalities, there are one or more "persons" in their head.
Message: Posted by: bobbyhasbun (Feb 3, 2014 09:56AM)
I'm speaking on behalf of myself and not Roth at all (although maybe he can chime in and agree or disagree)... But I like to think that her schizophrenia was misdiagnosed. What was really going on was much darker and otherworldly, but doctors didn't know how else to classify it.
Message: Posted by: Godzilla (Feb 3, 2014 12:08PM)
[quote]
On 2014-01-10 16:53, Godzilla wrote:
With this being a case study of a youth with Mental Health Issue's,I hope there is added accounts,of what (Can Not) be explained by Science,in the study too! (Paranormal)

[/quote]

I'm with Bobby, on this !
Message: Posted by: Doc Ben (Feb 3, 2014 02:42PM)
Great idea Bobby....I could see using that premise for sure!
Message: Posted by: gmeister (Feb 3, 2014 04:19PM)
Don't get too hung up right now on schizophrenia or DID or any of the many other classifications or misclassifications that can be applied to ASH. Suffice-it-to-say that ASH is open-ended enough to lend itself to all sorts of interpretations and you could well find yourself of many minds of how best to present it.
Message: Posted by: critter (Feb 3, 2014 04:45PM)
I wasn't intending to generate much controversy with my somewhat off-handed remark. I understand that the main focus here is on the possession and not a mental disorder. But sane people really are scary.
Message: Posted by: Roth (Feb 3, 2014 05:12PM)
Just to clarify, and by the way this is a fascinating discussion. Alice was both schizophrenic and had multiple personality disorder. Very rare in children.

There is no violence or anyone getting killed in her diary :)
Message: Posted by: Godzilla (Feb 3, 2014 05:50PM)
[quote]
On 2014-02-03 18:12, Roth wrote:


There is no violence or anyone getting killed in her diary :)
[/quote]


DAMMIT ! :)
Message: Posted by: Sicnatius (Feb 3, 2014 05:52PM)
[quote]
On 2014-02-03 18:50, Godzilla wrote:
[quote]
On 2014-02-03 18:12, Roth wrote:


There is no violence or anyone getting killed in her diary :)
[/quote]


DAMMIT ! :)
[/quote]

Check out the teaser pictures, I guess its gory enough to freak people out ;-)
Message: Posted by: gmeister (Feb 3, 2014 06:09PM)
[quote]
On 2014-02-03 18:50, Godzilla wrote:
[quote]
On 2014-02-03 18:12, Roth wrote:


There is no violence or anyone getting killed in her diary :)
[/quote]


DAMMIT ! :)
[/quote]

Ah, Lizard my friend, there is reading the lines in the diary and then there is reading between the lines . . .
Message: Posted by: Wizard of Oz (Feb 3, 2014 08:09PM)
Rick, can you give us an update on an ETA?
Message: Posted by: critter (Feb 3, 2014 08:40PM)
:)
Message: Posted by: Roth (Feb 3, 2014 08:49PM)
[quote]
On 2014-02-03 21:09, Wizard of Oz wrote:
Rick, can you give us an update on an ETA?
[/quote]
Mid-Feb guys. Thanks :)
Message: Posted by: Godzilla (Feb 4, 2014 04:48PM)
[quote]
On 2014-02-03 19:09, gmeister wrote:
[quote]

Ah, Lizard my friend, there is reading the lines in the diary and then there is reading between the lines . . .
[/quote]

That, is the way I read it, my friend !

Just,don't want anything bad to happen to *lice or Ash !

Anyone Else, EHhhh... :)
Message: Posted by: ZoOpDoG (Feb 5, 2014 06:25PM)
I have witnessed a schizophrenic become violent. He believed the television was sending him messages through public access channels and that there was a chip implanted in his neck which everyone was trying to get. The actions all seem funny at first to most people until you realize how serious it is to not be kidding. Either way the hospital had an off duty but uniformed police officer as its nightwatchmen. The patient was unrestrained even though he had made threatening comments toward the staff that he intended to "take them out" and make his escape before they could get the chip. When the staff attempted to force him to take sedatives after catching him only pretending to take them he got violent. The Police officer came in to help (nightstick in hand) and he grabbed the officer by his necktie and began strangling him with it while males and female nurses tried to get him subdued. The cop started beating him with the nightstick anywhere he could hit him which eventually landed a head shot. It subdued the patient long enough to put him in full restraints. When he regained consciousness he was in full 6 point restraints and was immediately sedated but conscious. He was black and blue everywhere from the nightstick. The family arrived and were furious. The officer was yelling that he was about to shoot him if he hadn't gone down when he did which made them even more angry. The family said they had warned the hospital of him being threatening and believed he was not swallowing his meds and that he should have been restrained prior to the incident and that they were going to sue the hospital, etc. The pure adrenaline coming from the patient could have launched a rocket. If a schizophrenic becomes delusional (when untreated or improperly treated)they can absolutely become violent. He was not diagnosed with multiple personality disorder nor do a number of doctors believe there is such a thing. I have no opinion on that as I am not a doctor. Definitely not something I will ever forget.

edit - I should mention that the reason he had not been restrained prior to the incident was because he was very calm until the incident itself. Never yelled and in no way projected anger other than the comment about "taking them out" which was also said quite calmly to a family member. Projecting calm and being calm are not the same. It almost seemed as if he were faking the disorder at times because he seemed completely normal unless he believed he could trust you. Only Then would he speak about the chip and the conspiracy and the messages from the TV. Since he pretty much trusted no one and it was up to them to tell the doctors what he was saying. He was caught by the docs at one point when he wouldn't come out of the bathroom. When they went in he was attempting to put his #2 into a bag rather than flush it because he believed if they got it the could check his DNA against it and he could no longer pretend that he was not the guy with the chip. That they would know they had the right person.
Message: Posted by: ZoOpDoG (Feb 5, 2014 07:08PM)
I should mention that I am referring to a person that had become delusional to a point that he was already placed into the hospital while awaiting admittance to a psychiatric treatment center. I thought it would be interesting to hear about this in a thread promoting an item that deals with this subject matter. I don't imagine the book is dealing with a functioning schizophrenic. Based on my PM box there are some who think I intended to mean this about all people living with the disease and possibly make light of it. That was not the intention nor did I expect any would take it as such.
Message: Posted by: critter (Feb 6, 2014 12:18AM)
My Dad has schizophrenia and my education is in psychology, magna cum laude. As noted, I'm still more worried about being murdered by a "sane" person. It's more statistically likely. ;)
I'm not offended by this routine based on what I've read. Sounds interesting.
Message: Posted by: Godzilla (Feb 9, 2014 07:55PM)
Critter, my presentation would be in Bizarre...the,only way I would perform this! :)

@ Roth, I hope you are keeping your ASH, in gear on this release ! :)
Message: Posted by: Intrepid (Feb 20, 2014 07:06PM)
[quote]
On 2014-02-03 21:49, Roth wrote:
[quote]
On 2014-02-03 21:09, Wizard of Oz wrote:
Rick, can you give us an update on an ETA?
[/quote]
Mid-Feb guys. Thanks :)
[/quote]
Would this be a good time for us to start stalking the mailman in anticipation of a precious delivery?
Message: Posted by: Doc Ben (Feb 21, 2014 07:51AM)
I will be stalking my "person-person" (do not want to be accused of sexual/gender bias by saying "male-man" )!
Message: Posted by: armymagic (Feb 24, 2014 11:31AM)
Just wanted to see if anyone has yet received their copy of Ash yet?
Message: Posted by: Vic Nadata (Feb 24, 2014 11:36AM)
Not yet. I don't think they shipped yet, but Outlaw can verify the status.
Message: Posted by: armymagic (Feb 24, 2014 06:05PM)
Thanks Vic, it was just a generalized question anyway. No problem waiting a bit longer, OE stuff is always worth it
Message: Posted by: reese (Feb 24, 2014 08:18PM)
It's now listed on the website as shipping in early March. I am very much looking forward to this.
Message: Posted by: Doc Ben (Feb 27, 2014 01:39PM)
[quote]
On Feb 24, 2014, reese wrote:
It's now listed on the website as shipping in early March. I am very much looking forward to this.
[/quote]
If I were to get mine by St Paddy's day....I will surely have an extra Guiness in celebration and enjoyment of my ASH...!
Message: Posted by: Wizard of Oz (Feb 27, 2014 08:49PM)
I am drinking a Guiness now in anticipation of the celebration and enjoyment of my ASH. Most likely I will fall on my ASH, but that is a story for another day.
Message: Posted by: reese (Feb 27, 2014 09:58PM)
And I am just now drinking a "Rasputin" stout... brushing ashes off me, sitting on my... sit-bones.
Message: Posted by: Doc Ben (Feb 27, 2014 10:45PM)
[quote]
On Feb 27, 2014, Wizard of Oz wrote:
I am drinking a Guiness now in anticipation of the celebration and enjoyment of my ASH. Most likely I will fall on my ASH, but that is a story for another day.
[/quote]
A very old "groaner" from some 1950's magician's joke book I once had, "Magic is amazing,...the other day I saw a magician walking down the street,...and he suddenly turned into a bar...!"
Message: Posted by: reese (Feb 28, 2014 12:01AM)
Uhhhhhhhhhhhh... (groan)
Message: Posted by: themaurie (Feb 28, 2014 02:39PM)
Very excited about this one!
Message: Posted by: Wizard of Oz (Mar 6, 2014 01:37AM)
Rick, can you give us a status update? Have books begun to ship?
Message: Posted by: Roth (Mar 6, 2014 01:41AM)
We start shipping next week. It's been a long slow process hand drawing over 130 pieces of art. You guys will be blown away. The book is like looking at pure chaos from the mind of a little kid.

Retail will be $175 next week.
Message: Posted by: piyuyu (Mar 6, 2014 05:43AM)
Yes!!!
Message: Posted by: Doc Ben (Mar 6, 2014 08:01AM)
I'm leaving a message now for my postal person in CRAYON as to where to leave my package if I am not at home when it arrives...! :bigdance:
Message: Posted by: espkeith (Mar 6, 2014 08:14AM)
Can't wait. Thanks for the update, Rick!
Message: Posted by: Wizard of Oz (Mar 6, 2014 11:51AM)
Color me excited.
Any chance of you posting some current pics Rick, to get our evil creative juices flowing?
Message: Posted by: 5ublim3 (Mar 8, 2014 07:12AM)
Order placed woohoo!
Message: Posted by: Wizard of Oz (Mar 9, 2014 10:38PM)
Found this cool story. Not directly related, but still..
http://www.messynessychic.com/2014/03/07/hidden-in-henrys-room-the-secret-life-of-a-janitor
Message: Posted by: pickin_grinnin (Mar 12, 2014 05:35PM)
Wizard of Oz - Henry Barger was certainly an interesting character. He took the concept of worldbuilding to a whole new level.
Message: Posted by: Al Desmond (Mar 17, 2014 10:55AM)
Ok... I'm almost ready to push the pay button on Outlaw, but I'm not sure if I've seen these questions asked or answered?

1) A book test. What does that encompass. Revealing a word on a page, an entire page, one of the pictures. Or like Lillian's, some basic reveals on an entry followed by a trip through the book?

2) How much memory work is involved?

3) How "freely" does the spectator arrive at someplace in the book?

4) Up to this point there hasn't been much talk on effect, just on the premise of the book and the wonderful artwork.

5) The ad currently states the price is 150 until March 25th. Is that valid. I've seen a number of different deadline dates mentioned throughout this thread.

Input Rick?
Message: Posted by: Roth (Mar 17, 2014 01:08PM)
Hi Guys,

I should have pics of the book posted later today.

March 25th it starts shipping (finally!)

The price will go to $175

Thanks!
Message: Posted by: Doc Ben (Mar 17, 2014 03:49PM)
Yaaay..! So glad I got in on the pre-release sale....and can't wait to add it to my routines! :bigdance: :righton:
Message: Posted by: 5ublim3 (Mar 17, 2014 08:31PM)
[quote]
On Mar 17, 2014, Al Desmond wrote:

1) A book test. What does that encompass. Revealing a word on a page, an entire page, one of the pictures. Or like Lillian's, some basic reveals on an entry followed by a trip through the book?

2) How much memory work is involved?

3) How "freely" does the spectator arrive at someplace in the book?

4) Up to this point there hasn't been much talk on effect, just on the premise of the book and the wonderful artwork.

Input Rick?
[/quote]

I wasn't sure if this all got answered via PM or maybe it was going to be answered in the later post but I'm also wondering?
Message: Posted by: Roth (Mar 17, 2014 09:26PM)
You can reveal multiple diary entries and art.

Less memory work than Luna

Free choice by the spec. You never touch, peek or ask for a page number :)

This book was only given to certain groups of doctors and psychologists involved in the case study at N.I.M.H.. It was not made for the public. There are no "bells and whistles" it's pretty "institutional.

[img]http://s28.postimg.cc/7uzvqajm5/photo_2.jpg[/img]
Message: Posted by: bobbyhasbun (Mar 17, 2014 09:29PM)
Beautiful!
Message: Posted by: Doc Ben (Mar 17, 2014 10:14PM)
[quote]
On Mar 17, 2014, bobbyhasbun wrote:
Beautiful!
[/quote]
Agreed..and it was only two factors that made me spring for a pre-order instantly 1) given my lifetime career in MH, the back story involving "schizophrenia" and (since one of my all time faves is the Lu*£ trilogy) 2) It was created by Rick Roth/Outlaw......SOLD...!!!

:readingbook: :jump:
Message: Posted by: Sicnatius (Mar 18, 2014 01:34PM)
Beautiful Rick, can't wait to finally have it in my hands!
Message: Posted by: takeachance (Mar 18, 2014 04:05PM)
Before ordering Rick can you please check your PM's and get back with an answer
Message: Posted by: Daisydog (Mar 20, 2014 11:54AM)
That looks fab! Can't wait to get my paws on it.
Message: Posted by: Boudje (Mar 21, 2014 02:45AM)
Just a quick question: I ordered it few month ago using Paypal, is there some sort of track of it on the website? I never get another mail than the Paypal one, and search the website today to find my account without success. Can someone point me to it?
Message: Posted by: piyuyu (Mar 21, 2014 04:23AM)
[quote]
On Mar 21, 2014, Boudje wrote:
Just a quick question: I ordered it few month ago using Paypal, is there some sort of track of it on the website? I never get another mail than the Paypal one, and search the website today to find my account without success. Can someone point me to it?
[/quote]

Hi,

If you are referring to ASH, it will only ship on the 25th March.
Message: Posted by: Boudje (Mar 21, 2014 04:28AM)
Thanks for the answer, I was just curious to know if there is some sort of track of the order somewhere on the website or if the paypal email is the only thing you get.
Message: Posted by: Brynmore14 (Mar 21, 2014 04:33AM)
Usually just paypal in my experience.
Message: Posted by: Al Desmond (Mar 21, 2014 11:07AM)
[quote]
On Mar 21, 2014, Boudje wrote:
Thanks for the answer, I was just curious to know if there is some sort of track of the order somewhere on the website or if the paypal email is the only thing you get.
[/quote]

If you placed the order a while ago, then you may need to look under the "archive" link at the top of your account activity. The archive is like older bank statements, a history of older activity.

Si vous avez placé la commande il ya un certain temps, alors vous pouvez avoir besoin de regarder sous le lien "archive" en haut de l'activité de votre compte. L'archive est comme les relevés bancaires âgées, une histoire d'activité plus.
Message: Posted by: bobbyhasbun (Mar 24, 2014 03:16PM)
As some of you know I've been working on Ash with Roth the past couple of months. Probably the most unusual project I've ever been involved with. The book is completely hand written and the art is extensive.

This past week we were really pushing hard but decided it was best not to push it out and take one more week before committing to the binder so we can proof-read again and make any final changes. One typo and the book can be N/G. There are a group of people we have been showing various pages to the past couple of weeks and we are all in agreement that it looks just like the real thing and it's amazing looking.

I think you buyers will be very pleased with this huge undertaking. So please let us make sure it's all good before we send it out next week.

I'm honored to be a part of Ash and know it will set a new mark in bizarre (and mental magic). It's been a pleasure working with Roth and G. Kriss on this extensive project.
Message: Posted by: Doc Ben (Mar 24, 2014 03:32PM)
Thanks for the update Bobby,....as much as I am drooling to get my hands on this new piece of mental/bizarre artful creation,...I really appreciate the fact that you all are taking the time and have the integrity to get it right and get it to a state of excellence! My personal back story is sooo perfect for this routine/effect that it am overjoyed by the results you report and by the pictures I have seen. The cover of the "case study" book for ASH even almost exactly matches one of the psychological case evalutaion books that I regularly used in my previous career at the state hospital..!
Patiently meditating for one more week...!!
:napping: :applause:
Message: Posted by: Wizard of Oz (Mar 24, 2014 06:24PM)
Thank you for the update. I too would rather wait for it to be done 100% right.
I gotta admit though...I am chomping at the bit. This sounds sooooo creepy.
Message: Posted by: Intrepid (Mar 25, 2014 09:52AM)
Bobby, I appreciate the extra effort you guys are making to make sure that the quality of Ash is second to none. Thank you.
Message: Posted by: themaurie (Mar 26, 2014 02:55PM)
Thanks for the update! Very excited about this and I'm sure it will totally be worth the wait. Thanks for taking the extra time and care!
Message: Posted by: Yann SICAMOIS (Mar 26, 2014 11:26PM)
Thanks for the update on this.
Message: Posted by: Doc Ben (Mar 27, 2014 09:49PM)
Maybe we can get an update on Monday, please?...it's a holiday here in AZ and it would be exciring to hear that ASH is shipping the first of the week...!
:exclaim: :question:
Message: Posted by: 5ublim3 (Apr 2, 2014 06:47PM)
I don't mean to seem pushy, I truly appreciate the extra care is being put into this, but any word on when these might be shipped yet?
Message: Posted by: Roth (Apr 2, 2014 07:38PM)
[quote]
On Apr 2, 2014, 5ublim3 wrote:
I don't mean to seem pushy, I truly appreciate the extra care is being put into this, but any word on when these might be shipped yet?
[/quote]
Hi Guys,

Thanks so much for extending me the time you have and not freaking out :)

I have a huge workload on a normal day, let alone writing a book too. Let me first say that it's probably the most disturbing book you will have in your arsenal, and I did underestimate the complexities of writing like a 9 year old, mis-spelling, odd shaped letters etc. I think if I went to print out a letter I am now only capable of writing like a 9 year old, as opposed to my usual writing like a 12 year old, lol.

The actual diary is hand written by me as a 9 year old girl. It's written to look exactly like a child wrote it. The bizarre doodles are done by me. I even erase and re-write words so the page is "messy", I dog ear some pages, I draw and erase doodles, so they look like "ghost doodles". On top of all that I have to make sure the force entries and force doodles are correct.

It's an art project and a book test. The book is completely linear and can be read from start to finish.

What I've been doing the past two weeks is making her doodles also "revelations. You can divine the entry and reveal the drawings.

She starts off with very nice "penmanship" her printing is very nice, then 3 months in her father dies in a car accident and her illness starts to take hold. She "meets" ASH. Her printing starts to go downhill, her doodles start to get strange.

From there it goes further downhill and the last month turns into a cataclysmic meltdown resulting in a shocking (but anticipated) abrupt end to her entries, because the girl writing the entries is no longer "there".

Now I need to answer your question. I met with my printer today again and he's composing a test print file. I'm going to do several final proof reads and we are going to print next week.

So please show a little more mercy :) you have all been very kind and patient to this point and you know I will come through for you with an extrodinary book.
We're looking at the book being at the binder next week. No one in their right mind would probably have taken on a project like this. I'm doing it for me and for you.

I truly believe this bizarre little diary will have a great impact and it needs to be done right.

BTW, no one wants this book shipping more than I do. It's a bit stressful :)

-Rick
Message: Posted by: 5ublim3 (Apr 2, 2014 07:57PM)
Again I don't mean to push or add to any stress by any means, I have no doubt the end result will be worth the wait, I was just curious. Thank you for the response though Rick. The details made me smile.
Message: Posted by: Doc Ben (Apr 2, 2014 09:44PM)
Thanks for the update. Many of your enthusiastic followers, knowing what you have produced for us before, get into an anticipatory "tension" when we are so desirous of this "bizzaro" work of art as you have detailed....
I will try to delve into my closet of magick and distract myself for another couple of weeks..in meditation of what is ahead...,.Ohhhhmmmmmm..! :fruity: :napping: :readingbook:
Message: Posted by: themaurie (Apr 3, 2014 10:37AM)
Thanks for the update Rick!

I sure don't mind waiting a bit for this. Excited yet patient.
Message: Posted by: 13 (Apr 3, 2014 11:15AM)
FANTASTIC !

I can tell you Rick Roth works his ass off and, when all is said, done and delivered, his customers end up with classic incredible effects that can be enjoyed for a lifetime.
WORTH ANY WAIT.

Thanks Rick, for sharing your vision and creativity with us.
Message: Posted by: Al Desmond (Apr 3, 2014 11:53AM)
Ah... ok... you talked me into it. I was going to ask for a refund and go by a case of Invisible Decks... but since you said the magic word "please"... I'll wait :)
Message: Posted by: Daisydog (Apr 3, 2014 12:51PM)
Sounds very interesting. I can't wait!!
Message: Posted by: Al Desmond (Apr 15, 2014 03:50AM)
Rick

Update?
Message: Posted by: Doc Ben (Apr 18, 2014 11:38PM)
[quote]On Apr 15, 2014, Al Desmond wrote:
Rick

Update? [/quote]
Ditto,.....maybe by Monday can we get an update?.....tempus is fugiting....all over the place!
Really appreciate occasional check ins...Thanks


:worry:
Message: Posted by: gmeister (Apr 19, 2014 08:39PM)
For those seeking an update: I've been consulting with Rick on Ash and have spoken with him over the last few days. Based on our conversations I feel comfortable in reporting that Ash will indeed be on the presses this coming week and in your hands shortly thereafter.
Message: Posted by: Godzilla (Apr 19, 2014 10:08PM)
Thanks for the update, G-Man ! :-)
Message: Posted by: armymagic (Apr 30, 2014 08:07AM)
Rick or anyone else in the know, there any word when this will actually start shipping out to us?
Message: Posted by: Doc Ben (Apr 30, 2014 10:19PM)
Yes, please update.....trying to be patient, but we're into May already..!
:worry: :thanx:
Message: Posted by: Roth (May 1, 2014 12:18AM)
May is a good month :) I can say that books will be here in the next week and that's where we are at. We did add some more "extras" to the package including a "recently found" photo of a childrens birthday party circa 1961 that will stun your spectators when you show it at the end of the presentation.

Everything is not what it seems with Alice. Not trying to tease, but she does have a multiple personality disorder.

Buyers will have this book shortly. You will be performing Ash this month, sooner than later. I also am very very appreciative of the fact that the book is a few months late and no one has sent me to the gallows yet.

It is a 150 book limited edition and there are almost 50 books sold, so if you have not purchased it, do not worry, there are almost 100 units still available and after it comes out I would say they will be available for several weeks.

The price is going to $175 full retail next week.

I will update this thread on Monday.

-Rick
Message: Posted by: Brynmore14 (May 1, 2014 03:37AM)
Thanks Rick
Message: Posted by: 13 (May 1, 2014 12:45PM)
Fantastic ... Way to go Roth !
Message: Posted by: Al Desmond (May 1, 2014 02:12PM)
[quote]On May 1, 2014, Roth wrote:
Everything is not what it seems with Alice. Not trying to tease, but she does have a multiple personality disorder.
-Rick [/quote]

I'm now a little confused. The cover of the book you displayed a number of comments back says "childhood schizophrenia" and the title of this thread is "Ash-Diary of an 8 year old schizophrenic," yet you say above she has MPD. They are not the same disorder, no where near the same. Isn't that a LARGE hole in this concept? Explain?
Message: Posted by: Roth (May 1, 2014 02:55PM)
[quote]On May 1, 2014, Al Desmond wrote:
[quote]On May 1, 2014, Roth wrote:
Everything is not what it seems with Alice. Not trying to tease, but she does have a multiple personality disorder.
-Rick [/quote]

I'm now a little confused. The cover of the book you displayed a number of comments back says "childhood schizophrenia" and the title of this thread is "Ash-Diary of an 8 year old schizophrenic," yet you say above she has MPD. They are not the same disorder, no where near the same. Isn't that a LARGE hole in this concept? Explain? [/quote]

There are many clinical documentations of the rare combination of a subject having both disorders. Rare in children. Over 200 documented cases that were studied.

It can be presented as either. Alice has issues with reality and who she is.
Message: Posted by: takeachance (May 1, 2014 03:33PM)
Talking about issues Rick, while your here can you check your inbox please and answer, thanks
Message: Posted by: Al Desmond (May 1, 2014 03:35PM)
[quote]On May 1, 2014, Roth wrote:
[quote]On May 1, 2014, Al Desmond wrote:
[quote]On May 1, 2014, Roth wrote:
Everything is not what it seems with Alice. Not trying to tease, but she does have a multiple personality disorder.
-Rick [/quote]

I'm now a little confused. The cover of the book you displayed a number of comments back says "childhood schizophrenia" and the title of this thread is "Ash-Diary of an 8 year old schizophrenic," yet you say above she has MPD. They are not the same disorder, no where near the same. Isn't that a LARGE hole in this concept? Explain? [/quote]

There are many clinical documentations of the rare combination of a subject having both disorders. Rare in children. Over 200 documented cases that were studied.

It can be presented as either. Alice has issues with reality and who she is. [/quote]

I wouldn't mind seeing a link to those studies. I spent 3 years researching and developing the stage version of "I Never Promised You A Rose Garden," one of the definitive fictionalize accounts of schizophrenia, and my play also delves into the real life of Dr. Fried (the books fictionalized doctor) who was Dr. Frieda Fromm-Reichmann. I worked with the "Rose Garden" books author Joanne Greenberg (the subject of "Rose Garden") and Fromm-Reichmann's biographer Dr. Gail Hornstein.

This topic came up many times, both in my research, discussions with Greenberg and Dr. Hornstein, and in scouring related books on the subject. And that included talk backs with the cast of the original stage show and a number of well know psychiatrists, where that subject came up from the cast asking questions during rehearsals.

While a schizophrenic can have a disassociative break with themselves, they do not ever have one of their "voices" in their head, or one of the characters in their inner world suddenly take over their own personality. The closest I can see happening is that the person is misdiagnosed with one disorder or the other.

I'm not trying to cause trouble. Not that I can't script it out and work with it but I wouldn't mind a link to an actual scholarly discussion on your ascertains.
Message: Posted by: Roth (May 1, 2014 03:52PM)
No where in her diary is there any reference by Alice to any type of disorder. You can make the presentation yours. There is something definitely wrong with her. The study says Schizophrenia. Now a days it could have been diagnosed many ways. This was 55 years ago and the child was never actually diagnosed, only her diary was.

You will love what you can do with this book Al. I have faith in you to blow yer audience away :)
Message: Posted by: Doc Ben (May 1, 2014 04:04PM)
[quote]On May 1, 2014, Al Desmond wrote:
[quote]On May 1, 2014, Roth wrote:
[quote]On May 1, 2014, Al Desmond wrote:
[quote]On May 1, 2014, Roth wrote:
Everything is not what it seems with Alice. Not trying to tease, but she does have a multiple personality disorder.
-Rick [/quote]

I'm now a little confused. The cover of the book you displayed a number of comments back says "childhood schizophrenia" and the title of this thread is "Ash-Diary of an 8 year old schizophrenic," yet you say above she has MPD. They are not the same disorder, no where near the same. Isn't that a LARGE hole in this concept? Explain? [/quote]

There are many clinical documentations of the rare combination of a subject having both disorders. Rare in children. Over 200 documented cases that were studied.

It can be presented as either. Alice has issues with reality and who she is. [/quote]

I wouldn't mind seeing a link to those studies. I spent 3 years researching and developing the stage version of "I Never Promised You A Rose Garden," one of the definitive fictionalize accounts of schizophrenia, and my play also delves into the real life of Dr. Fried (the books fictionalized doctor) who was Dr. Frieda Fromm-Reichmann. I worked with the "Rose Garden" books author Joanne Greenberg (the subject of "Rose Garden") and Fromm-Reichmann's biographer Dr. Gail Hornstein.

This topic came up many times, both in my research, discussions with Greenberg and Dr. Hornstein, and in scouring related books on the subject. And that included talk backs with the cast of the original stage show and a number of well know psychiatrists, where that subject came up from the cast asking questions during rehearsals.

While a schizophrenic can have a disassociative break with themselves, they do not ever have one of their "voices" in their head, or one of the characters in their inner world suddenly take over their own personality. The closest I can see happening is that the person is misdiagnosed with one disorder or the other.

I'm not trying to cause trouble. Not that I can't script it out and work with it but I wouldn't mind a link to an actual scholarly discussion on your ascertains. [/quote]
I have over 50 yrs experience inserios mental illness and a professional degree.
The DSM (diagnostic manual) used by psychiatry has altered various diagnosis over the past few decades, so what is incuded as an "Axis I and/or Axis II diagnosis (there are five axes in the diagnostic coding and statistical system) has changed over the years.
But the point I want to make is that certain personality disorders (e.g. "Borderline Personality Disorder" BPD) is not an unusual Axis II diagnostic category. So, although granted to be very rare as any diagnosis of childhood schizophrenia is, an Axis II diagnosis of MPD, multiple personality disorder is within reason,
Inmy early career days I was assigned to a young woman in her twenties, a twin who had been with her sister at age 18 months when the twin dramatically and drastically die. I t was notthe only source of her trauma, but during hehospitaization with a diagnosis of schizophrenia which was not resondng well to treatment, she was seen by specialist of Harvard Medical School, who ended up adding a diagnosis of Multiple Personality Disorder, which actualy is now coded as DID, Dissociative Identity Disorder.
So, please Al, realize, these diagnoses are not rooted in a science like physics, but mental health "science" is still not as far along as the "hard" sciences.
ASH will be a credible offering to perform...!!
:readingbook:
Message: Posted by: Bill Cushman (May 1, 2014 05:44PM)
The world of DSM diagnosis is every bit as political and reflective of the culture at large as it is medically based. While the medications for schizophrenia are improved over what was available when I came into the field 30 years ago, our actual knowledge about schizophrenia and D.I.D remains limited. That fifty-five years ago Ash could have been dianosed with both or either, along with a host of other "disorders," is completely consistent. It all seems grist for the backstory mill in any case, something to savor in developing your performance and spin as you wish, and definitely not something to fret over.

(By the way, during a quick google search I came across someone who stated that their primary diagnosis is D.I.D but one of their alters suffers from schizophrenia!)
Message: Posted by: Bill Cushman (May 1, 2014 05:50PM)
Actually such diagnosis still occurs today. Between 2004 and 2011, I was working in a program that specialized in treating people diagnosed with with D.I.D. Many of them had received diagnoses of schizophrenia early in life, along with other diagnoses, before receiving an MPD or DID diagnossis and receiving treatment that addressed their trauma background. Again, the limitations of science and larger societal forces are at play as diagnoses wax and wane in popularity. More backstory if you so desire!
Message: Posted by: Al Desmond (May 1, 2014 06:12PM)
[quote]On May 1, 2014, Bill Cushman wrote:
The world of DSM diagnosis is every bit as political and reflective of the culture at large as it is medically based. While the medications for schizophrenia are improved over what was available when I came into the field 30 years ago, our actual knowledge about schizophrenia and D.I.D remains limited. That fifty-five years ago Ash could have been dianosed with both or either, along with a host of other "disorders," is completely consistent. It all seems grist for the backstory mill in any case, something to savor in developing your performance and spin as you wish, and definitely not something to fret over.

(By the way, during a quick google search I came across someone who stated that their primary diagnosis is D.I.D but one of their alters suffers from schizophrenia!) [/quote]

I will take your last line as humor?

And all I said was I never heard of someone being diagnosed with both, at the same time, nor did any of the professionals I was dealing with during my 3 years of research. In searches I came across a lot of forums where people were basically self-diagnosing that they had schizophrenia and D.I.D, but nary a case study.

Over the years it has been argued that Joanne Greenberg herself was misdiagnosed and there has been claims that she was not cured of schizophrenia, because she never had it. Some doctors claimed that she was actually suffering from a somatization disorder.

I have no doubt "Ash" will be one of the best tests that Outlaw has ever produced. I am not questioning the value of the product. And I understand it is a prop, not a masters thesis. And Rick knows that I respect him and his products, beyond fail. I simply had questions, I simply am doing my due-diligence. I normally write my own scripts for these sort of props and I was asking questions in preparation for working with this prop.

(And no one has still produced a link to a diagnosed case of schizophrenia/D.I.D)
Message: Posted by: Al Desmond (May 1, 2014 06:20PM)
Anyway...

I am so looking forward to getting my hands on this... especially now since I made such a stink about it :coolspot:
Message: Posted by: Bill Cushman (May 1, 2014 08:04PM)
Al, that last line was not at all humor but a quote from an online forum. I don't make light of such things.

Diagnoses follow people around for life. So someone, like a number of men and women in the treatment program I mentioned, can easily be given the diagnosis of schizophrenia early on then diagnosed with D.I.D. years later and both would be mentioned in any decent evaluation.

I'm not about to do a thorough review of the literature over this but upon a quick search there is nothing jumping out at me to suggest there is a definitive answer to whether or not shcizophrenia and D.I.D. can be comorbid or not. I certainly don't see anything in the criteria where one would exclude the other so there is no reason to believe them mutually exclusive. The one reference to a psychiatric text dealing with this topic that I came across said it is rare. But rare means it exists in their opionion. Ash seems pretty rare as well.

But for me, again, the lack of any firm answer to this question if anything suggests possible plotlines. It is all so speculative that I predict you can find data to support whatever position you hold or want to weave into a backstory for Ash.
Message: Posted by: reese (May 1, 2014 09:07PM)
I see a possibility to use a presentation where any diagnosis is under doubt... leading to a supernatural explanation gaining credence.
Message: Posted by: Merlinsmagic (May 1, 2014 10:19PM)
I could see Roth complimenting this with "Alice's toy box".......... :-)
Message: Posted by: Doc Ben (May 1, 2014 10:57PM)
[quote]On May 1, 2014, Al Desmond wrote:
[quote]On May 1, 2014, Bill Cushman wrote:
The world of DSM diagnosis is every bit as political and reflective of the culture at large as it is medically based. While the medications for schizophrenia are improved over what was available when I came into the field 30 years ago, our actual knowledge about schizophrenia and D.I.D remains limited. That fifty-five years ago Ash could have been dianosed with both or either, along with a host of other "disorders," is completely consistent. It all seems grist for the backstory mill in any case, something to savor in developing your performance and spin as you wish, and definitely not something to fret over.

Al, I
I will
And all I said was I never heard of someone being diagnosed with both, at the same time, nor did any of the professionals I was dealing with during my 3 years of research. In searches I came across a lot of forums where people were basically self-diagnosing that they had schizophrenia and D.I.D, but nary a case study.

Over the years it has been argued that Joanne Greenberg herself was misdiagnosed and there has been claims that she was not cured of schizophrenia, because she never had it. Some doctors claimed that she was actually suffering from a somatization disorder.

I have no doubt "Ash" will be one of the best tests that Outlaw has ever produced. I am not questioning the value of the product. And I understand it is a prop, not a masters thesis. And Rick knows that I respect him and his products, beyond fail. I simply had questions, I simply am doing my due-diligence. I normally write my own scripts for these sort of props and I was asking questions in preparation for working with this prop.

(And no one has still produced a link to a diagnosed case of schizophrenia/D.I.D) [/quote]
Al, apparently you did not understand that I personally worked with the patient I mentioned, the twin diagnosed with Scizophrenia and MPD. I would not, nor could, not reveal her name, which I still remember, and I am not sure what link would satisfy you...but I am teling you of an actual, real case...not a link to some report. INMHO you will be able to create a very credible and convincing script and a performance of ASH despite your concern for such details. :ohyes:
Message: Posted by: guyactor (May 2, 2014 12:18AM)
[quote]On May 1, 2014, Merlinsmagic wrote:
I could see Roth complimenting this with "Alice's toy box".......... :-) [/quote]

Oh. OH, OHHH....... This would be fantabulous.......

Until then, one could retrofit a H-bb's B-x as one, but it's a tad small.
Message: Posted by: guyactor (May 2, 2014 01:47AM)
BTW - Is the girls name Alice or Ash (as in Ashley). I have seen both, here.
Message: Posted by: Brynmore14 (May 2, 2014 05:51AM)
None of the above, multiple names are for the purposes of obfuscation, earlier in the thread Rick states:

"I just want to note that the name Ash and Alice and the Hopkins University are for posting and webpage google protection.
Alice, Ash and Hopkins University are not the actual names on and in the book so feel free to refer to them as that."
Message: Posted by: Al Desmond (May 2, 2014 06:05AM)
[quote]On May 1, 2014, Doc Ben wrote:
Al, apparently you did not understand that I personally worked with the patient I mentioned, the twin diagnosed with Scizophrenia and MPD. I would not, nor could, not reveal her name, which I still remember, and I am not sure what link would satisfy you...but I am teling you of an actual, real case...not a link to some report. INMHO you will be able to create a very credible and convincing script and a performance of ASH despite your concern for such details. :ohyes: [/quote]

Where did I ask you to revel her name?

Rick said he knew of at least 200 cases of "rare" comorbid schizophrenic/D.I.D. I simply questioned that. I could not find any case studies on line (nor in my personal library).

I never asked you personally to revel anything.
Message: Posted by: Godzilla (May 2, 2014 08:11AM)
Rick, be sure to send out ASH to the people who ordered first ! :-)
So, that we can enjoy and have our OWN take on it !
Prefer that, to learning about it on this thread !

Looking forward to this !

Gary
Message: Posted by: Brynmore14 (May 2, 2014 08:16AM)
Yeah, I'll second what the G-man said.
Message: Posted by: Sicnatius (May 2, 2014 11:25AM)
Totally agree with the lizard!
Message: Posted by: 13 (May 2, 2014 01:01PM)
13 AGREES with Godzilla !
Message: Posted by: Al Desmond (May 2, 2014 01:36PM)
Who is this lizard dude?
Message: Posted by: Vic Nadata (May 2, 2014 02:24PM)
He has got a new movie coming out real soon...
Message: Posted by: Godzilla (May 2, 2014 03:07PM)
[quote]On May 2, 2014, Al Desmond wrote:
Who is this lizard dude? [/quote]

Al, yout turning into the "Antifun" !



The Power of Humor I compel you

The Power of Humor I compel you

The Power of Humor I compel you

The Power of Humor I compel you

The Power of Humor I compel you

The Power of Humor I compel you

and, so on ...

And, No Spoilers on the new "GODZILLA" movie...05/16/2014 ! LOL

Lizzy
Message: Posted by: guyactor (May 2, 2014 09:23PM)
Thanks Brynmore.



[quote]On May 2, 2014, Brynmore14 wrote:
None of the above, multiple names are for the purposes of obfuscation, earlier in the thread Rick states:

"I just want to note that the name Ash and Alice and the Hopkins University are for posting and webpage google protection.
Alice, Ash and Hopkins University are not the actual names on and in the book so feel free to refer to them as that." [/quote]
Message: Posted by: Godzilla (May 2, 2014 09:51PM)
ASH, is going to be Killer !

The Brainchild of Rick, the likes of Bobby & Gary involved...this, will be like no other !
Message: Posted by: reese (May 2, 2014 11:06PM)
Yeah bro, the anticipation at this point is intense! It looks like nothing that has ever been done before. Something utterly unique!
Message: Posted by: afinemesh (May 2, 2014 11:32PM)
I hit the paypal button yesterday!
Message: Posted by: Doc Ben (May 3, 2014 12:26AM)
[quote]On May 2, 2014, Al Desmond wrote:
[quote]On May 1, 2014, Doc Ben wrote:
Al, apparently you did not understand that I personally worked with the patient I mentioned, the twin diagnosed with Scizophrenia and MPD. I would not, nor could, not reveal her name, which I still remember, and I am not sure what link would satisfy you...but I am teling you of an actual, real case...not a link to some report. INMHO you will be able to create a very credible and convincing script and a performance of ASH despite your concern for such details. :ohyes: [/quote]

Where did I ask you to revel her name?
Al, obviously you did not ask for her name. My point was you asked for a link,...apparently for some study or research which woudld show you evidence of schizophrenia and MPD as dual diagnoses. Therefore, my point was to repeat that I personally had worked with a particular case (actually more than one over the years) in which I was verifying for you that in the real world of working with the seriously mentally ill, such dual diagnoses exist.
I realize now that you prefer the credibility of a link to a research report, not knowing anything about my professional history. I am okay with that. (I will not present my resume here, which includes peer-reviewed research publication in the Journal of Abnormal Psychology).
I am sure we will all find much of worthy and credible back story and content to perform an amazing and incredible as well as credible piece of mystery....one of OA's finest as a legacy I am certain!

Rick said he knew of at least 200 cases of "rare" comorbid schizophrenic/D.I.D. I simply questioned that. I could not find any case studies on line (nor in my personal library).

I never asked you personally to revel anything. [/quote]
:fyi:
Message: Posted by: Merlinsmagic (May 3, 2014 10:30AM)
Just put in my pre order on Paypal :-) Looking forward to this one !!
Message: Posted by: themaurie (May 3, 2014 12:14PM)
Really, really, really excited about this. Love all my books from Outlaw and this one seems especially special. Very cool.
Message: Posted by: Merlinsmagic (May 5, 2014 11:59PM)
So what's the good word for Mondays update Rick ? :-)
Message: Posted by: armymagic (May 7, 2014 02:26PM)
Looks like it's time to start building the gallows, everyone, grab your torches and pitchforks! Rick, what happened to the Monday update?
Message: Posted by: Roth (May 7, 2014 03:55PM)
The usual chaos that is my life :)

I'm soooo close to this book shipping. You guys will have it this month is the fairest estimate I can give. Depends on how quick they're bound as to whether it will be close to the 15th when they're here.

I did add some very interesting extras to the package including a disturbing old photograph.

I will update in a few days. No question that they are shipping this month is the bottom line. Estimate around the 15th so don't build those gallows. I always come through and this has been a brutally complex and time consuming book.

I've already tortured myself and put myself through pain with this so no additional pain is need at this time.

Thank you again and this project is just about through.
Message: Posted by: Brynmore14 (May 7, 2014 04:04PM)
Very much looking forward to this.
Message: Posted by: Godzilla (May 7, 2014 04:22PM)
[quote]On May 7, 2014, Brynmore14 wrote:
Very much looking forward to this. [/quote]


You, Me & at least 50 Others...
Message: Posted by: 13 (May 7, 2014 05:45PM)
Beautiful !
Message: Posted by: afinemesh (May 7, 2014 10:18PM)
[quote]On May 7, 2014, Brynmore14 wrote:
Very much looking forward to this. [/quote]

YES, indeed!
Message: Posted by: Doc Ben (May 7, 2014 10:38PM)
Thanks for the update, Rick.....expecting an awesome package opening experience later this month...!! :banana: :carrot: :pepper:
Message: Posted by: SlipperySnake (May 8, 2014 10:21PM)
Man I wish I could afford this...
Message: Posted by: Doc Ben (May 8, 2014 11:09PM)
[quote]On May 7, 2014, Doc Ben wrote:
Thanks for the update, Rick.....expecting an awesome package opening experience later this month...!! :banana: :carrot: :pepper: [/quote]
I forgot to add that I love "disturbing old photographs".....and the effect they can have on specs...! :coolspot:
Message: Posted by: Darkness (May 10, 2014 02:12AM)
We are currently shooting a very short horror movie with a 12 year old who is a little more than disturbed, so looking forward to this release. Children bring a strong dynamic to the empathetic response that most people can easily connect with. It's creepier and more sad in some respect as it plays on lost youth and innocence.
Yay!
Message: Posted by: Merlinsmagic (May 15, 2014 09:25AM)
Any shipping updates on these Rick ? :-)
Message: Posted by: AnthonyJD (May 15, 2014 11:56AM)
I just got an email from Rick saying they should be ready to go about the 20th of the month.
Message: Posted by: Merlinsmagic (May 15, 2014 08:05PM)
[quote]On May 15, 2014, AnthonyJD wrote:
I just got an email from Rick saying they should be ready to go about the 20th of the month. [/quote]

WOO-HOO......Thank you Anthony for the FYI, I know Rick is slaving away getting these ready & hasn't had time to pop in here.
Message: Posted by: AnthonyJD (May 15, 2014 09:30PM)
Yes he is. And he always answers my emails in a timely manner. I guess the project is more involved than initially realized. Either way can't wait to get mine.
Message: Posted by: Merlinsmagic (May 15, 2014 10:14PM)
Rick has always replied back to me pretty quick also. I haven't emailed him as it is what it is & I figured this one ran him over like an unplanned freight train.......but he is a trooper & will give us one hell of a big bang for our bucks !! :-) He always does !!
Message: Posted by: reese (May 16, 2014 12:41AM)
Yeah, that's right,
it's coming soon. This is special.
Message: Posted by: Doc Ben (May 17, 2014 12:28PM)
Although it's been a verrrry long wait, I know from past dealings that Rick and OA always end up satisfying with marvelous product, props and routines....as I trust ASH will be so I will be happy if I get mine by the end of the month! Maybe Monday we get an update?
:worry: :banana:
Message: Posted by: Godzilla (May 19, 2014 01:27PM)
And, I thought the wait for 'Godzilla 2014' was killing me ! :-)
Message: Posted by: Wizard of Oz (May 19, 2014 08:45PM)
We got this going for us:
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=553581&forum=14
Message: Posted by: salcioppa (Nov 23, 2016 09:25AM)
Just got my hands on a copy of Ash a few weeks ago and performed it the other night. Fantastic! Of course, the book is just a tool so you have to work it a bit as with any routine like this. But all in all, it's great!
Message: Posted by: greerj (May 6, 2018 10:17AM)
For those of you who have this: has this stood the test of time? I have wanted this for a long time, and read the glowing reviews upon it's release, but now, long after it's release, do you still use it? think highly of it? how does it compare to Room Service, or WA?
Message: Posted by: Seth speaks (May 6, 2018 09:20PM)
I loved the book itself as a prop. Awesome idea and premise, and I think it could have been truly great. However, in my personal opinion it fell a bit short, mainly because I’m not a big fan of the particular methodology used. That is just a purely personal gripe, I know some folks love it. Also, and again this might be personal because I am in the mental health field, but the explanatory text by the NIMH guy just didn’t ring true for me; just didn’t sound like a psychiatric profrssional would communicate about this topic... Again, purely a personal thing. I sold mine for those reasons, but overall it was splendid and certainly creepy and well done. One of Rick’s best, shortly before Outlaw’s big public downfall. (I also think it would be possible to improve the method by adding annotations and notes throughout the text strategically, sort of like [i]Most Haunted House in England[/i]...)

Seth
Message: Posted by: weepinwil (May 7, 2018 10:25PM)
I never used the book in performance but as a prop, it was great. Another Café' member and I did an online drama and I used the book as proof what he had was really haunted. (a doll that looked like the one drawn in the book). It was so disturbing that some of his friends wanted to call the police, so we had to let them in on the secret a few at a time. Was a lot of fun. Like Seth says, it probably wouldn't pass the trained eye of a professional, but most of the people wouldn't know those differences. Selling the spectator on why you actually have the book is the issue for me; requires suspension of disbelief.

Have thought about selling mine several times, but always change my mind.
Message: Posted by: WintersNight (Jun 20, 2018 11:27PM)
Does anyone know who owns the rights to produce this item now that Outlaw has gone belly up? Is anyone planning on producing a new edition?
Message: Posted by: steven-gibson (Jun 22, 2018 05:15AM)
[quote]On May 7, 2014, Roth wrote:
The usual chaos that is my life :)

I'm soooo close to this book shipping. You guys will have it this month is the fairest estimate I can give. Depends on how quick they're bound as to whether it will be close to the 15th when they're here.

I did add some very interesting extras to the package including a disturbing old photograph.

I will update in a few days. No question that they are shipping this month is the bottom line. Estimate around the 15th so don't build those gallows. I always come through and this has been a brutally complex and time consuming book.

I've already tortured myself and put myself through pain with this so no additional pain is need at this time.

Thank you again and this project is just about through. [/quote]


I don't remember the photograph. Did anyone recieve that with their book? I have been rereading this old thread. I think this is such typical Rick hype. An era has ended. It was fun.
Message: Posted by: weepinwil (Jun 22, 2018 07:13AM)
No photo here. Wonder what it would look like?
Message: Posted by: Sean Xem (Jun 22, 2018 11:48AM)
There was a photo of the little girl that was sent as a PDF.

I guess I was lucky enough to receive it.

Steve, PM me your email if you’d like the pic and I’d be happy to send it over to you.

Willie, I have your email so just let me know if you’d like it.
Message: Posted by: weepinwil (Jun 22, 2018 01:06PM)
[quote]On Jun 22, 2018, Sean Gem wrote:
There was a photo of the little girl that was sent as a PDF.

I guess I was lucky enough to receive it.

Steve, PM me your email if you’d like the pic and I’d be happy to send it over to you.

Willie, I have your email so just let me know if you’d like it. [/quote]

I definitely want a copy. Thanks Sean.
Message: Posted by: BizarreRich (Jul 29, 2018 02:40AM)
I always liked the sound of the Ash story line but it sounds like not many people are that happy with it as an actual effect. I was hoping to pick up a second-hand copy sometime but it sounds like my money might be better spent on something else.
Message: Posted by: weepinwil (Jul 29, 2018 04:10PM)
[quote]On Jul 29, 2018, BizarreRich wrote:
I always liked the sound of the Ash story line but it sounds like not many people are that happy with it as an actual effect. I was hoping to pick up a second-hand copy sometime but it sounds like my money might be better spent on something else. [/quote]

I still think it is a good.prop for my purpose, but not for anyone who just wants to do a trick. Storytelling magic goes well beyond the. "Hey!Look at this!" A thumb tip in the amateurs hand is noticible, but in the professional's it could be orange and never noticed. It is the same in most book tests, it depends upon the art of the teller.

So, you are right, it may not be for you. Only you can determine that.
Message: Posted by: BizarreRich (Jul 29, 2018 07:26PM)
Thanks for that weepinwill. I think I might keep my eye out for a cheapish copy and if one appears I might try and grab it. If nothing else it could be a cool prop to go along with Luna.
Message: Posted by: weepinwil (Jul 29, 2018 11:01PM)
[quote]On Jul 29, 2018, BizarreRich wrote:
Thanks for that weepinwill. I think I might keep my eye out for a cheapish copy and if one appears I might try and grab it. If nothing else it could be a cool prop to go along with Luna. [/quote]

Good luck on that. If anything, I expect Ash will sell for more now than when retailed.
Message: Posted by: greerj (Jul 30, 2018 08:19AM)
There is a person on the Café that just offered to sell me ASH for $110. Don't know if that is cheap or not, but it's out there.
Message: Posted by: weepinwil (Jul 30, 2018 08:42AM)
[quote]On Jul 30, 2018, greerj wrote:
There is a person on the Café that just offered to sell me ASH for $110. Don't know if that is cheap or not, but it's out there. [/quote]

More than retail but less than I would sell mine, so I would think it a fair price.
Message: Posted by: BizarreRich (Jul 30, 2018 06:55PM)
I know that Vic recently obtained the rights to some effects from Outlaw Effects but if I remember rightly this didn't include Ash. So I guess there is little chance of it being reproduced which probably means the price of copies will only continue to rise.
Message: Posted by: weepinwil (Jul 31, 2018 07:12AM)
[quote]On Jul 30, 2018, BizarreRich wrote:
I know that Vic recently obtained the rights to some effects from Outlaw Effects but if I remember rightly this didn't include Ash. So I guess there is little chance of it being reproduced which probably means the price of copies will only continue to rise. [/quote]

Won't make the repro an original outlaw production either.
Message: Posted by: bazza2302 (Oct 22, 2018 11:32AM)
If anyone is interested in selling theirs please PM me.
Message: Posted by: Seth speaks (Oct 31, 2018 05:39PM)
$110 is a great price for ASH—seriously doubt you’ll find cheaper....
Message: Posted by: weepinwil (Oct 31, 2018 06:01PM)
[quote]On Oct 31, 2018, Seth speaks wrote:
$110 is a great price for ASH—seriously doubt you’ll find cheaper.... [/quote]

I wouldn't sell mine for less than $175, so you are correct that $110 is a great price. Didn't it originally sell for $125?
Message: Posted by: Sean Xem (Oct 31, 2018 06:48PM)
[quote]On Oct 31, 2018, weepinwil wrote:
[quote]On Oct 31, 2018, Seth speaks wrote:
$110 is a great price for ASH—seriously doubt you’ll find cheaper.... [/quote]

I wouldn't sell mine for less than $175, so you are correct that $110 is a great price. Didn't it originally sell for $125? [/quote]

If I remember correctly, I believe it sold for $165 originally and after a while was dropped to $125.

But now that it’s no longer available, I’d guess it should command quite more than the original price.
Message: Posted by: Wizard of Oz (Oct 31, 2018 07:03PM)
Okay. Here's a loaded question that I do not remotely know the answer to. Who came up with the concepts of Outlaw Effects' offerings? Was it just Rick, or a collaboration, or both?

I suspect it was Rick who led the charge of suggesting ideas for premises, routines, and effects to his builders, but simply stole the results of their efforts and claimed them as his own. Can any of the creators and/or builders offer input and context here? The whole tragic rise and fall of this company intrigues me. Not due to pity for its demise, but for the wasted energy and money it's cost the creators and supporters who were sucked into the Outlaw Effects vortex.
Message: Posted by: Intrepid (Nov 2, 2018 11:35AM)
[quote]On Oct 31, 2018, Wizard of Oz wrote:
The whole tragic rise and fall of this company intrigues me. Not due to pity for its demise, but for the wasted energy and money it's cost the creators and supporters who were sucked into the Outlaw Effects vortex. [/quote]
Sounds like a good potential for a book.
Message: Posted by: weepinwil (Nov 2, 2018 11:57AM)
[quote]On Nov 2, 2018, Intrepid wrote:
[quote]On Oct 31, 2018, Wizard of Oz wrote:
The whole tragic rise and fall of this company intrigues me. Not due to pity for its demise, but for the wasted energy and money it's cost the creators and supporters who were sucked into the Outlaw Effects vortex. [/quote]

Especially the supporters who were sucked in with promises that never saw the light of reality.
Message: Posted by: tbsmith918 (Jan 27, 2019 04:49AM)
I purchased Ash back when it came out...looked it over when it arrived...decided it wasn't for me...and stored it away in a tub. Somewhere. Perhaps I should look for it.
Message: Posted by: roblane (Mar 21, 2019 07:39AM)
I’ve just managed to purchase Ash for a very good price and am eagerly awaiting it’s arrival . I already have the instructional pdf but it’s difficult to imagine without the prop in hand . As the forum is no longer available I may well be after some advice from you guys
Message: Posted by: weepinwil (Mar 21, 2019 08:09AM)
[quote]On Mar 21, 2019, roblane wrote:
I’ve just managed to purchase Ash for a very good price and am eagerly awaiting it’s arrival . I already have the instructional pdf but it’s difficult to imagine without the prop in hand . As the forum is no longer available I may well be after some advice from you guys [/quote]

My advice is to increase your fire insurance coverage.
Message: Posted by: roblane (Mar 21, 2019 08:57AM)
Sage advice my friend, thanks :)
Message: Posted by: roblane (Mar 27, 2019 03:38AM)
It’s landed and it’s wonderfully creepy! Any tips on writing the notes for best effect would be very much appreciated, I’d like it be as authentic as possible
Message: Posted by: weepinwil (Mar 27, 2019 08:10AM)
[quote]On Mar 27, 2019, roblane wrote:
It’s landed and it’s wonderfully creepy! Any tips on writing the notes for best effect would be very much appreciated, I’d like it be as authentic as possible [/quote]

It plays without notes just as well. Sometimes less is more, so don't over do it.
Message: Posted by: roblane (Mar 28, 2019 07:40AM)
If you don’t make the notes , how do you guide the spec to the appropriate entries?
Message: Posted by: weepinwil (Mar 28, 2019 08:04AM)
[quote]On Mar 28, 2019, roblane wrote:
If you don’t make the notes , how do you guide the spec to the appropriate entries? [/quote]

I haven't looked at it in a while (a few years) so I would have to re-look at it, but mine is not noted.
Message: Posted by: roblane (Mar 28, 2019 08:14AM)
I have just discovered another thread on here that has a link to a letter to a Dr that may well suit my needs
Message: Posted by: weepinwil (Mar 28, 2019 08:44AM)
[quote]On Mar 28, 2019, roblane wrote:
I have just discovered another thread on here that has a link to a letter to a Dr that may well suit my needs [/quote]

Give me the link so I can see it if you don't mind.

Also, if I remember correctly, there is a poem that goes with the book that I think could be used to guide the spectator.
Message: Posted by: roblane (Apr 2, 2019 06:17AM)
Here ya go
http://newton.acrossthebow.com/nimh_letterhead.docx
Message: Posted by: weepinwil (Apr 2, 2019 07:15AM)
[quote]On Apr 2, 2019, roblane wrote:
Here ya go
http://newton.acrossthebow.com/nimh_letterhead.docx [/quote]

Thanks