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Topic: New Tenyo Elite Item Released!
Message: Posted by: Peter Loughran (Dec 30, 2013 01:14PM)
After a huge amount of painstaking R&D on something we were told was impossible to do, we now introduce to you the latest edition to the Tenyo Elite Line!
Limited Run.
Now Taking Pre-orders! First come first serve.

Visit our [url=http://www.tenyoelite.com]website[/url] for ordering info and watch the demo video below. :)

[youtube]xpopSex-qyc[/youtube]

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Message: Posted by: MagiChrisMitch (Dec 30, 2013 01:30PM)
For me, this was a great choice for the next elite item. Ordered! Looking forward to this, especially using a real cig.

CHRIS
Message: Posted by: Peter Loughran (Dec 30, 2013 01:34PM)
Thank you Chris for all the support! We promise you, you will not be disappointed! Wait till you see how cool this is in your hands! Congrats on reserving one!
Message: Posted by: Steve Brooks (Dec 30, 2013 01:37PM)
Thanks Chris - You'll love it. :)
Message: Posted by: Chris Stolz (Dec 30, 2013 01:40PM)
Let's keep the Chris trend going :)

NICE WORK GUYS!
Message: Posted by: MagiChrisMitch (Dec 30, 2013 01:41PM)
[quote]
On 2013-12-30 14:37, Steve Brooks wrote:
Thanks Chris - You'll love it. :)
[/quote]

More than you know! Having three choices of things to zag is fantastic. This is going to be a lot of fun.
Message: Posted by: Peter Loughran (Dec 30, 2013 01:42PM)
Thanks to both Chris' ! It's all blood and sweat.
Message: Posted by: Jason Palter (Dec 30, 2013 01:47PM)
Thank you Chris and Chris.....I've been playing with the trick for so long as well, while we were shooting the video footage and photos. It is so amazing and I have no doubt you are going to love it!

Also thank you everyone for all your encouragement, support and patience to Peter, Steve and myself; we really appreciate it!

Best regards,

Jason
Message: Posted by: NYCJoePitt (Dec 30, 2013 02:01PM)
Looks beautiful. The pencil and sliver bar additions are wonderful. Excellent job! Breathing new life into Tenyo. Love it!
Message: Posted by: Axman (Dec 30, 2013 02:30PM)
I got so fooled by the original signed centre version in Hamleys on regent street when I was a kid
Years later Alan Alan showed me that subtlety.
One of the best Tenyo tricks ever
Message: Posted by: Wizard of Oz (Dec 30, 2013 02:37PM)
Gotta admit, I didn't see this one coming. I would say this is one of Tenyo's most mechanically complicated pieces, and yet you pulled it off in wood of all things. Very nice job guys.
Message: Posted by: Jason Palter (Dec 30, 2013 02:48PM)
Wizard of Oz, you weren't the only one who thought that this could not be made successfully in wood. Thank you!

Best regards,

Jason
Message: Posted by: booswain (Dec 30, 2013 04:42PM)
The video looks awesome. The trick looks almost like a piece of art. Bravo.
Message: Posted by: Gaz Lawrence (Dec 30, 2013 04:43PM)
Love it but 50 dollars to ship is a joke surely ?
Message: Posted by: Peter Loughran (Dec 30, 2013 05:00PM)
Hi Nanaswan,

I am afraid it isn't. Our shipping options for this particular trick through Canada Post (our company shipping carrier) consists of airmail for aporoximately $20 but does not come with tracking or insurance and has no time guarantee. And the other affordable option is Tracked Parcel which is $50(on average ranging from $47.60 to $55.40) for overseas delivery but includes insurance to cover the trick incase of loss or damage, but also comes with tracking. We will not ship this product unless we can provide insurance, tracking and delivery confirmation. Which is also a new rule with Paypal to protect the sellers(and the buyers) from fraud. This is method we use. The trick is worth too much just to toss in the mail with no protection or tracking).

If you would like to inquire more on shipping costs from our location to overseas destinations, you can contact them here http://www.canadapost.ca

Thanks for kind comments :)
Message: Posted by: Peter Loughran (Dec 30, 2013 05:07PM)
I might also add if you purchase more then 1 Tenyo Elite item or of any combination, we ship the additional ones free!!
Message: Posted by: Gaz Lawrence (Dec 30, 2013 05:09PM)
Ok Peter I get all that , if I pre order when I am I likely to receive this in the UK ? Thank you :)
Message: Posted by: ThatsCool (Dec 30, 2013 07:57PM)
Looks beautiful guys :).
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (Dec 30, 2013 08:06PM)
I'm impressed as anything - just a cool piece.
Message: Posted by: teevtee (Dec 30, 2013 11:01PM)
I'm really happy to see Tenyo Elite live on and I appreciate the new direction (ie: classic tricks and wood).
With that said may I offer some honest constructive criticism?

My concern is that it looks so much like the original that I don't see a substantial improvement.
It reminds me of the Fortune Sticks in many ways: Much nicer than the original and yet still basically the same as the original.

I'd love to see an item that was not only made out of superior materials but also elevated in its look and presentation. Woods that are exotic and rich in tone, brass accents, engraving instead of screen printing etc. Perhaps Tenyo insists that they are virtual clones?

Congratulations on creating this and I wish you nothing but the best of luck!
Message: Posted by: Peter Loughran (Dec 31, 2013 02:18AM)
Thanks for all the feedback guys!

Teevee,
Perhaps I can share some info.

The purpose of Tenyo Elite is to honor the original creations, it is not necessarily ment to change or try and improve them, and Tenyo is not looking for this either. Tenyo is involved every step of the way in how they are developed and represented as these tricks are their children.

There was a great deal amount of thought and R&D that went into making these, and remember these are not made by machines they are crafted by hand, and so we also wanted to keep them at an affordable price point as much as possible. So with that said, we had to build these out of wood without compromising the deceptiveness or the workings of the trick. Tenyo insists that an Elite version be just as deceptive as the original. And adding brass hardware, or changing the size, ring design or other things that would or could lessen the deceptiveness of the prop in any way was not allowed, and rightfully so as the main focus is still the magic and wonder the trick produces.

We experimented and built several prototypes with different ring design layouts.
We built some prototypes with a stone inlay ring design and also other inlays/engraving effects of different materials, but soon realized that adding many of these would only compromise the integrity and strength of the prop because there is very little material to work with, and we didn't want want these to be fragile. We want people to be able to rigorously perform with them as well as collect them. Not to mention the extra time and labor to do inlays or similar effects by hand were going to raise the cost of these by a substantial amount, and we again want to keep them affordable as much as possible. We could make one out of gold if we wanted, but it's no good if no one can afford it.

A huge amount of time and R&D also went into selecting the perfect wood, and several prototypes were built using several different types of woods. And they all respond differently. We chose the hard Canadian exotic sugar maple, not only because it is a high end wood but because of its color, strength, the finish it provides, and workability during the crafting process. We wanted a wood that was light in color so a printing of a dark ring design would contrast well, and a wood that would showcase the grain of the material beautifully. We also chose this wood because of how incredibly strong it is and the workability it offers so that the intricate cuts and finishing can be done beautifully and efficiently, so that the price again remains reasonable and the prop delivers strength and integrity so that it can stand up to real life performing.

Anyway, I've probably bored the heck out of everyone now, but just wanted to shed some light on the subject.

P.
Message: Posted by: Eddie Garland (Dec 31, 2013 09:58AM)
Mmmmmmmm Canadian exotic sugar Maple.
You are making me hungry for pancakes Pete! :)
Message: Posted by: teevtee (Dec 31, 2013 11:27AM)
Thanks for the details Peter, not boring in the least.

I am sure that I cannot fathom the amount of work involved and I am not trying to lessen your efforts at all. Clearly there is a love and respect for Tenyo and I respect and admire that.

What you say about material thickness, fragility and costs makes perfect sense. My only question is if they end up being so close to the originals that they do not separate themselves from the originals enough?

Zig Zag Cig was never a favorite of mine so that is likely behind my initial reaction to the news. I really do wish you great success and have a feeling that this will feel more impressive and different from the original once in hand; pictures probably do not do it justice.

Maybe because the original is already a light wood color I'm being thrown. I look forward to your future releases when perhaps a brightly colored more toy like effect will be upgraded with rich woods etc.

Good luck and nice work.
Message: Posted by: J M Talbot (Dec 31, 2013 11:34AM)
Wow, congrats guys! This looks amazing and hard to believe you were able to make it in maple wood. Order is placed.
Thanks guys for sticking with this and releasing another great Elite item. Cheers,

John
Message: Posted by: ChasVH (Dec 31, 2013 01:01PM)
Congrats Peter as well as the rest of you involved. Would have never guessed this is the effect you chose.

I think it looks great and my order is in!

My only drawback is this is a very popular trick that has been around a long time with many copies running around in inexpensive magic sets. Because of this I just don't think you are going to fool a lot of people with this. I don't mind that though because it was this trick that got me interested in magic in the first place and I bet a lot of people will feel the same way. It's an iconic effect in my opinion, so now having it offered in a collectible fashion made out of wood is a no brainer for me even though every kid may know how it works.

Charlie
Message: Posted by: Jason Palter (Dec 31, 2013 01:50PM)
Hello all:

Thank you for the continued feedback, questions, support, and of course your orders! We are nearly 50% sold out of our first run----and it's been just 24 hours!

Teevtee I understand your concern regarding whether or not our Tenyo Elite edition of the trick will separate itself from the original enough. However let me reassure you that once you hold this in your hand, you will see that the separation is in fact so clear. The Tenyo original is brilliant in design, look, and working. It is diabolical, and a favorite of so many magicians----in fact, it was the first trick that Peter Loughran bought when he was a kid. The issue that many performing and amateur magicians had is that it is plastic, and may not look very professional if you pull it out to perform in front of a paying crowd (close-up, restaurant magic, etc.). What we did was take the exact same workings, design, look and feel, and despite the doubts of many who understand the process of plastic molding, successfully turned it into a prop that amateur and professional magicians will not even hesitate to do in front of their paying audiences. So I truly believe that because of this, the separation between the amazing Tenyo original and our Elite version is very distinct. And yes you are correct TeevTee---the photos/videos do not do it justice.

ChasVH, I also understand your concern regarding it being popular with some copies out there as well. But I will tell you that I have shown this prototype to dozens of my friends and colleagues. Some are magicians, and some are not. Some have had kids with magic sets, and some have not. Everyone who saw it (including those few who are familiar with the workings) were just blown away by the look and beauty of the prop, and also by just how cool an illusion is created when you perform it. Just like any trick, there will always be some who know how it is done (because of exposure on a TV show, or they have seen it in a magic set, etc.). So while this trick got many interested in magic (like yourself and Peter Loughran), there are some that know the secret but the VAST majority of laypeople who you would perform this for will have no idea how it is done and love the trick! By the way, thank you for your order (and yours too J M Talbot)!

Best regards,

Jason
Message: Posted by: Peter Loughran (Jan 2, 2014 12:03PM)
Hey Guys,

Thanks for all the orders, we are approaching 75% sold out of the first run in just 2 days! So thank you all so much for the support! So if you want one of these be sure to act fast before they are sold out.

The zig zag cig was one of the first magic tricks I bought when I visited my first magic shop in Toronto when I was just a little boy over 30 years ago(Browser's Den of Magic). I remember being completely fooled by it, and on the way home in my parents car, I sat in the back seat just zigging and zagging the little styrofoam cig that came with the trick, not really knowing the inner workings, just that it looked so convicing and real! It got me hooked on magic! So releasing this trick in an Elite form has special meaning to me.

We met Hiroshi Kondo the inventor of this and many Tenyo Tricks and he is also the current Vice President of Tenyo Japan, and he brought with him the original prototype he made at his house with peices of red and black plastic held together by tape, and he even performed the trick for us using the prototype he made back in the 1970's. How cool is that?! As that was a trick that further peaked my interest in magic when I was a little boy, you can imagine what a thrill this was for me(and all of us).

Below is a picture of us with the original Zig Zag Cig prototype!
[img]https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1524987_10152177799174124_1666942556_n.jpg[/img]


From left to right: Hiroshi Kondo, Peter Loughran, Jason Palter, Steve Brooks.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: Posted by: ChasVH (Jan 2, 2014 01:22PM)
Super cool Peter... this is also one of my first magic tricks that "hooked" me as well, especially onto cool mechanical magic.
Congrats again to you all.

Charlie
Message: Posted by: Steven Conner (Jan 2, 2014 01:56PM)
Hey Peter, the only question I have is will it hold up as a worker.

Best
Message: Posted by: J M Talbot (Jan 2, 2014 02:07PM)
Hey Steve, Peter has commented a couple of times that the piece is durable... looks like they designed it for the collector and the worker...

"We also chose this wood because of how incredibly strong it is and the workability it offers so that the intricate cuts and finishing can be done beautifully and efficiently, so that the price again remains reasonable and the prop delivers strength and integrity so that it can stand up to real life performing."
Message: Posted by: Jason Palter (Jan 2, 2014 03:15PM)
Hello all:

Steve Conner, that is a very good question. The purpose of our renditions of the Tenyo tricks is of course for collectors, but more to the point, they are meant to be PERFORMED! Our Zig Zag Cig is very solidly constructed and has been rigorously tested for repeat performances. However it still is a handcrafted trick made out of wood. So while you don't have to be overly delicate handling it, you should always remember not to be too rough with it, and handle it with a reasonable amount of care.

Thank you for the continued support, questions, and business!

Best regards,

Jason
Message: Posted by: saverle (Jan 2, 2014 05:58PM)
OK OK OK it's a great item but ... a cigarette trick nowadays??? A very bad signal to our beloved children. OK OK OK you can use an other object to divide, but that's yet... less magic.
So, great item, but not for children's parties!
Message: Posted by: teevtee (Jan 2, 2014 06:51PM)
You guys keep mentioning "first run".
I know others have sort if asked but let me be more direct:

Is the intent to have multiple runs?
How many units are produced per run?
Is there a limit set to end production?

Obviously an item becomes more desirable as a collectable if it is limited.
It looks like you are emulating Magic Wagon a bit. Those items are typically limited to about 50.
If you produce an open endless series if runs that's great and some if us may decide to purchase later but we would like to know the situation.
Have you sold 6 and made 11 or have you sold 750 and made 1000 with 1000 more to come?

Obviously I am using extremes but because we keep seeing that you are "almost sold out" and that this is the "first run" I think it's fair to ask what that means exactly.

Thanks again.
Message: Posted by: teevtee (Jan 2, 2014 07:47PM)
Sorry about the typos with "i" instead of "o".
I always do that on my phone for some reason.
Message: Posted by: Chance Wolf (Jan 2, 2014 08:28PM)
[quote]
On 2014-01-02 18:58, saverle wrote:
OK OK OK it's a great item but ... a cigarette trick nowadays??? A very bad signal to our beloved children. OK OK OK you can use an other object to divide, but that's yet... less magic.
So, great item, but not for children's parties!
[/quote]

I do not think that it makes it any less magical for a straw, pencil or metal bar to be split in three pieces.
Matter of fact I think it is MORE magical as they are denser objects.
Not sure why you think that the cigarette is the purpose??
What if Tenyo released it as the Zig Zig Pencil and we performed it for years with a pencil?
Would it be less magical if we then switched to a cig?
Not trying to come down on you at all...I just don't get the thought process.

Chance
Message: Posted by: MagiChrisMitch (Jan 2, 2014 08:53PM)
[quote]
On 2014-01-02 18:58, saverle wrote:
OK OK OK it's a great item but ... a cigarette trick nowadays??? A very bad signal to our beloved children. OK OK OK you can use an other object to divide, but that's yet... less magic.
So, great item, but not for children's parties!
[/quote

I think the endless lines of people in colorado waiting to buy recreational marijuana would no doubt love to see the zig zag of a smoke.
Message: Posted by: Eddie Garland (Jan 2, 2014 09:06PM)
[quote]
On 2014-01-02 21:53, MagiChrisMitch wrote:
I think the endless lines of people in colorado waiting to buy recreational marijuana would no doubt love to see the zig zag of a smoke.
[/quote]

Brilliant MagiChrisMitch!
There is the entire routine right there.
Message: Posted by: Chance Wolf (Jan 2, 2014 09:29PM)
HA! OK..that was funny!
Sort of a magical way to share the last doobage :)
Message: Posted by: teevtee (Jan 2, 2014 09:58PM)
I think some people prefer the idea if a cigarette because in theory it COULD be cut into three pieces.
In other words the trick is the restoration not the cutting. It is obviously not possible to use this device to cut a metal bar in thirds, therefore the heat is placed on a switch before the actual effect even starts.

I always viewed The use of a cigarette specifically because it was soft and possibly able to be split.

I'd still love to hear about the plans for edition sizes and second or third runs. Not saying one is right or wrong but a collectible is quite different if there are 5,50,500 or 5000.
Reminds me of the joke about the old Ford LTD AKA the Ford Limited. Limited to what? however many they could sell apparently.
Message: Posted by: Chance Wolf (Jan 3, 2014 12:09AM)
I see your point. Given that...I think a piece of Red Rope Licorice would put this right into the "Kidzone"
Not bad huh?
If I thought about it a bit more I am sure there are a few other candy types that would go over well for kids or adults.
Gettin outside the box :)
Message: Posted by: meridianfan (Jan 3, 2014 06:53AM)
Chance,

The red licorice is perfect for kids! I would worry about the candy dyes staining the wood. Probably not an issue for the plastic version, but wood can absorb dyes.
Message: Posted by: Chance Wolf (Jan 3, 2014 09:38AM)
Good point!
Yeah...that might be a problem.
The clear coat my be good enough to protect the wood and not stain...but..if not...
then a guy could maybe place a strip of the matte Scotch Tape down the center area.
Easily removable...no stains.
Just trying to think out loud.

Anyways...I am sure there are many kid friendly solutions than a classic Marlboro Red :)
Message: Posted by: J M Talbot (Jan 3, 2014 11:14AM)
No doubt a trip to a Michaels would uncover a number of options... crayons, markers, those thick fuzzy craft sticks, etc. Would be cool if there were Lego pieces you could put together and fit in it... break them apart and magically put them together. Maybe a strand of those rubber band bracelets that are the rage this Christmas. Perhaps start with the unit in the zig zag condition and ask if they have seen the gizmo that the kids are using to make those rubber band bracelets. Put a number of the small bands in each section, push it together and produce a bracelet the child can keep. Have no idea if this will work... just brainstorming. Looking forward to getting mine.
Message: Posted by: teevtee (Jan 3, 2014 11:16AM)
It's an interesting challenge really... As we were discussing the cigarette sort of maybe could actually be split so it works really well... but is obviously not somehting to do for kids or even most audiences at this point.
A pencil or metal bar work well as far as the actual mechanics go but make the effect as much about cutting as it is about restoration and to me that is a much less strong effect.

So what can fit in there that coudl be cut? Red licorice is a great idea... could nto REALLY be cut but for kids shows it is a solid idea. Nonetheless I'd lobe to find something that woudl fit in there and actually be somewhat logical to split into thirds. Maybe a soft wood? Like a bala wood dowel? It could be handed out ahead of time and discussed how the wood is so soft that even bare hands can dent it... then split into thirds as a demo of how soft it is... maybe some discussing of the harder Maple being able to cut through the softer wood... then the restoration makes some sense.
Message: Posted by: reed kammerer (Jan 3, 2014 12:46PM)
Was looking for crystal clever as your new effect. It was the top voted effect. Was that ever what your might make._
Message: Posted by: teevtee (Jan 3, 2014 02:16PM)
Meant to say balsa wood... not bala
Message: Posted by: Eddie Garland (Jan 3, 2014 06:38PM)
Zig Zag Birthday Candle might be worth looking into.
Message: Posted by: robvh (Jan 3, 2014 10:36PM)
Any chance I might see one of these in person at Browser's Den in Toronto this weekend? I'm in Ontario visiting family and plan to drop by Browser's Saturday afternoon somewhere between 3 and 5 PM. It would be great to see you, Jason.
Message: Posted by: Chance Wolf (Jan 3, 2014 10:46PM)
[quote]
On 2014-01-03 19:38, Eddie Garland wrote:
Zig Zag Birthday Candle might be worth looking into.
[/quote]

That is a GREAT idea for kids! And would just look cool. Great thinking.
Message: Posted by: Jason Palter (Jan 4, 2014 04:13PM)
Hey Rob:

How are you? It would be great to see you, but I won't be at the magic shop on Saturday. Hopefully we can get together soon!

Those are great ideas everyone is coming up with!! The reason I personally would not use a crayon is because I would be afraid that if I was clumsy inserting the whole thing (or the pieces) into the slots of the trick, the colored wax might rub off and get on the wood. With a reasonable amount of care you should be fine......but I'm nervous I'd mess it up. lol

Thank you for the continued sales----we're almost sold out of our first run!

Best regards,

Jason
Message: Posted by: ThatsCool (Jan 4, 2014 07:29PM)
Just bought two.

Can't wait to get them to review :).
Message: Posted by: cbusch55 (Jan 4, 2014 09:00PM)
So, is there a second run?
Message: Posted by: teevtee (Jan 4, 2014 10:23PM)
I'm confused by why the Elite guys won't answer such simple questions as how many units were in the run and how many runs there will be.

I'm really happy to hear about the success but equally frustrated and almost insulted that they will not answer fair, direct and pertinent questions that would help me make an informed decision about buying.

Over and over we hear talk about selling out the first run in order to sour sales but then silence about how many units there are it will be. Is this really treating customers with respect?
Message: Posted by: pierredan (Jan 5, 2014 08:02AM)
I would also like to know how many are being produced in the "first run" just to get an idea of how limited it is. I was thinking of ordering a second but if further runs are possible, I see no point to ordering two for now.
Message: Posted by: Peter Loughran (Jan 5, 2014 09:05AM)
Hello.

Sorry I missed your question Teevtee. And sorry I was away from the thread for a couple of days. I'm dealing with some serious health issues that will take me away from here from time to time, so I appologize for that. Please know if I miss a question or I am away from the thread that I'm not ignoring you. We respect all of our customers. Sorry you were insulted that I missed your question that was certainly not our intention.

Our intial run will consist of a minimum limited 50 units. However it is possible that a few more then this could be produced within the 6 week mfg time, but we are not sure since this is our first time doing a run and we are not sure if we can surpass this minimum (but we know we can meet it). But if the first run did increase during production, it would certainly be under 100 units. We will be happy to inform our customers what that exact production number is once the run is complete.

Also keep in mind this is a limited run not a numbered run. How many runs will we do? Well certainly the first run and possibly a second run(an additional 50-100 units produced in a 6 week time frame).
This second run will only take place if there is enough demand to warrant that additional run. If we don't think there will be enough demand for another entire run then this second run will not take place. Based on what I've seen so far from production, the zig zag cig will be limited to 100 units over 2 runs.

Will there be more runs then that? No. We are under contractual agreement with Tenyo to produce "x" amount of Tenyo Elite tricks in a specific timeline, therefore we cannot spend any more time (3months) on manufacturing zig zag cigs (even if we wanted to) we must move on to the R&D, development and production of the next Tenyo Elite item. This will likely be the format and numbers for all future elite items. Ranging from 50-200 in quantity based on demand and manufacturing time.

These new elite items are all hand crafted so you must understand that production takes longer and less of them can be made in a 6 week time frame. The first two elite items were produced in much much larger quantities and was one of the reasons we had trouble because our capital was tied up in inventory. This will never happen again now, and Elite items will come out much more often, be much more collectible and have that beautiful hand crafted characteristic to them! :) We're excited!

I hope that answers your question.

Peter.
Message: Posted by: cbusch55 (Jan 5, 2014 10:16AM)
That is a good answer.
Message: Posted by: teevtee (Jan 5, 2014 11:40AM)
Peter:

Thank you for your answers. I appreciate the information and certainly understand that you have much more important issues to deal with.
My comments were not directed solely at yourself but nonetheless I really do appreciate your responses and information.

This is very helpful and I think all of us who are interested in your project(s) appreciate it.

I think the new business model (seems similar to Magic Wagon) is a GREAT way to go and I again wish you all the luck in the world and I am super excited to see what is coming next!
Message: Posted by: roblane (Jan 5, 2014 02:47PM)
This was one of my first magical purchases and a long time favourite. How could I NOT order it? Looks gorgeous, just hope the waits not too long!
Message: Posted by: pierredan (Jan 5, 2014 04:31PM)
Thanks Peter. 100 is not many.
Message: Posted by: Julie (Jan 5, 2014 10:09PM)
About the item to be zig-zagged: how about cutting a supply of magic wands out of the proper thickness of wooden dowel rods?

You can paint them different colors (although the standard black and white color combination will contrast fine with the light wood).

Put a sticker on the middle for the convincer and then give it to your audience helper as a souvenir at the end... :)

Julie
Message: Posted by: Eddie Garland (Jan 6, 2014 03:14PM)
[quote]
On 2014-01-05 23:09, Julie wrote:
About the item to be zig-zagged: how about cutting a supply of magic wands out of the proper thickness of wooden dowel rods?

You can paint them different colors (although the standard black and white color combination will contrast fine with the light wood).

Put a sticker on the middle for the convincer and then give it to your audience helper as a souvenir at the end... :)

Julie
[/quote]

Very nice idea Julie. Really lovely.
Message: Posted by: Wizard of Oz (Jan 6, 2014 08:31PM)
Agreed. That's a very cool suggestion.
Message: Posted by: Julie (Jan 6, 2014 09:06PM)
Thanks, guys! :)

Julie
Message: Posted by: Jason Palter (Jan 12, 2014 09:58AM)
Hello all:

Thank you so much for all your continued support, comments and orders! I wanted to let you know a couple of things:  First, I just heard from our manufacturer, and it looks like these might even be shipping earlier than February 15th! Yay!.....Secondly, we are almost totally sold out, and have just 2 left from our initial first production run----so order yours before it's too late!

I don't want to sound overdramatic, but the truth is that depending on interest for future sales, this may in fact be our last run (maybe, possibly, but not for sure). After these are sold, if there is interest in getting one from a second run, then please be sure to contact us. If there is enough interest, then we may do a second and final run, otherwise we are just going to move on to our next release.

Please let us know if you have any questions. Thanks!

Best regards,

Jason
Message: Posted by: J M Talbot (Jan 12, 2014 06:27PM)
Great news Jason, thanks for the update!

John
Message: Posted by: Wizard of Oz (Jan 12, 2014 06:57PM)
Just ordered mine. Completely drained from the holidays, but found the money finally. This looks awesome. No surprise it sold so quickly.
Now, I can't wait to see what you guys have planned next.
Message: Posted by: booswain (Jan 13, 2014 01:00PM)
This is so beautiful...its a work of art
Message: Posted by: Jason Palter (Jan 14, 2014 03:39PM)
Hello all:

Thank you for all of your support and your business! We are now very pleased to announce that our first production run of our Tenyo Elite Zig Zag Cig is now sold out, and will probably be shipping earlier than we thought!

We may do what will be a second and final run, depending on the level of interest. If you are truly interested in getting in on this, then please contact us as soon as possible.

Thank you again!

Best regards,

Jason
Message: Posted by: JimW (Jan 15, 2014 11:42AM)
Ah, I waited too long. By the time I saw the post that said there were only 2 left, they were already gone. I hope there is a second run - email has been sent.
Message: Posted by: ThatsCool (Jan 15, 2014 02:56PM)
Having these sell out so fast might make people buy the next [i]Elite[/i] item that much faster and create more of a demand for [i]Tenyo Elite[/i] products.

I wonder if doing another run would make people wait even longer on the next illusion, thinking there will be another run which could possibly hamper sales and collectibilty. I can't wait until these come out and the next item is started on :).

I'm curious Jim, why did you wait?
Message: Posted by: JimW (Jan 16, 2014 12:09PM)
Post-holiday bill payments coupled with a desire to read some reviews before making a purchase. The other Elite items are still available, so I thought I'd be able to wait until after the Zig Zag was released before making my decision. The video demo looks great, but the price is high enough that I didn't expect the whole run to sell out in advance. If there is a second run, I'll take the plunge.
Message: Posted by: tdowell (Jan 20, 2014 11:28PM)
I don't think many expected this to run out so soon, especially given the fact Moon Spinner and Fortune Sticks remain available though produced several years ago. I only heard of this last week, went to order one tonight, and was surprised to found it sold out. I consider myself a loyal customer and Tenyo Elite fan.

Another run of 50 is certainly warranted if there are only 50 in existence. Otherwise you can expect at least a 300% price markup on the secondary market right away. Yes, $500 to $700 would not be out of the ballpark. Only 50 units puts this close the Gerlitz production range, and we all know what those items sell for aftermarket (and I love Richard Gerlitz items, so please don't take that as a negative for Mr. Gerlitz).

For those who picked this up already, congratulations, you may have a serious collectible on your hands. :)
Message: Posted by: ThatsCool (Jan 21, 2014 05:20PM)
[quote]
On 2014-01-21 00:28, tdowell wrote:

Another run of 50 is certainly warranted if there are only 50 in existence. Otherwise you can expect at least a 300% price markup on the secondary market right away. Yes, $500 to $700 would not be out of the ballpark. Only 50 units puts this close the Gerlitz production range, and we all know what those items sell for aftermarket (and I love Richard Gerlitz items, so please don't take that as a negative for Mr. Gerlitz).

For those who picked this up already, congratulations, you may have a serious collectible on your hands. :)
[/quote]

Why would another run of 50 be warranted if there are only 50 in existance? I would think another run would be done if another 50 people wanted them as well as how the [i]TE[/i] team wants to proceed, but you never know.

Having these sell out so fast may make people buy the next [i]Elite[/i] item that much faster and create more of a demand for future [i]Tenyo Elite[/i] products.

Doing another run could also make people wait even longer on the next illusion thinking there will be another run, which could possibly slow sales and future value. I guess it can be argued both pro and con as to additional runs of a limited item. I sure wish [i]Magic Wagon[/i] did additional runs when their limited items sell out because I have missed out on a few of their illusions. However, being they don't, their items sell out that much faster the next time. They also usually end up keeping and exceeding their original purchase price.
Message: Posted by: J M Talbot (Jan 23, 2014 11:49AM)
Being a purchaser of the one of the first run my selfish preference would be for only one run :). However I want the Tenyo Elite project to remain financially viable for the team and if a second run helps that cause then by all means they should proceed with a second run, if the demand warrants it.I agree with That's Cool that the Magic Wagon model has been great in creating fast sell-outs of thier items each time. Ultimately look forward to more releases from Tenyo Elite.

John
Message: Posted by: ChasVH (Jan 23, 2014 02:29PM)
Agree 100% with John on this. Magic Wagon is a great model for Tenyo Elite to emulate though it might be a little harder because there are only so many of the Tenyo effect you can build in such a way and command such a price to make it work. These guy's though are mostly doing this for love and know they are not going to make a fortune off of the "Elite" business. They just need to make sure they do not lose money. With that said, I applaud them for whatever decision they make.

Charlie
Message: Posted by: pierredan (Jan 23, 2014 09:23PM)
I really hate speculation and profiteering on Tenyo. It really takes the fun out of the magic and places the emphasis on collecting toys and its potential value. I have ordered one of the 50 and I would have no objection if you would sell a 1000 more. I really want them to be in the hand of Tenyo fans and not people who will turn them around for a profit.
Message: Posted by: tdowell (Jan 24, 2014 09:34PM)
[quote]
On 2014-01-21 18:20, that'sCool wrote:

Having these sell out so fast may make people buy the next [i]Elite[/i] item that much faster and create more of a demand for future [i]Tenyo Elite[/i] products.
[/quote]
Or Tenyo Elite just falls into the collector niche market, limiting it's appeal to a small group. Nothing wrong with that, but it won't increase the number of collectors. I used to be a hardcore collector and it is a limited market where the demand pretty much stays within the collector community, many of whom are willing to pay obnoxious prices on the secondary market due to limited availability.

Eventually these things end up on serious collection shelves, rarely used and only infrequently handled. If that's the marketing model Tenyo Elite seeks, they have a good start with the Zig-Zag Cig.
Message: Posted by: ThatsCool (Jan 24, 2014 10:39PM)
[quote]
On 2014-01-24 22:34, tdowell wrote:
[quote]
On 2014-01-21 18:20, that'sCool wrote:

Having these sell out so fast may make people buy the next [i]Elite[/i] item that much faster and create more of a demand for future [i]Tenyo Elite[/i] products.
[/quote]
Or Tenyo Elite just falls into the collector niche market, limiting it's appeal to a small group. Nothing wrong with that, but it won't increase the number of collectors. I used to be a hardcore collector and it is a limited market where the demand pretty much stays within the collector community, many of whom are willing to pay obnoxious prices on the secondary market due to limited availability.

Eventually these things end up on serious collection shelves, rarely used and only infrequently handled. If that's the marketing model Tenyo Elite seeks, they have a good start with the Zig-Zag Cig.
[/quote]

I thougt it [i]was[/i] a collector/niche market. I don't recall reading where anyone said anything about increasing the number of general magic collectors. What I said was having this intital run sell out fast [i]may[/i] make people buy the next [i]Elite[/i] item that much faster and create more of a demand for future [i]Tenyo Elite[/i] products. The demand I imagine would mostly be collectors of Tenyo and some magic collectors of limited edition, well made magic tricks. Similiar, though not exactly the same as, [i]Magic Wagon[/i].

I wouldn't doubt many [i]Tenyo Elite[/i] (and [i]Magic Wagon[/i]) collectors, keep their items on a shelf as a collectible. Others, depending on the illusion, perform with them.
Message: Posted by: rhettbryson (Jan 30, 2014 06:52AM)
I am one of the magicians who has paid for this new Tenyo Elite item and am wondering if the creators could offer an update on the delivery of the trick?
Message: Posted by: ChasVH (Jan 30, 2014 03:55PM)
I agree with Rhett.... I ordered as well, paid and have heard nothing. You should at least give an update on a shipping date as a common courtesy....if you are not sure then tell us. Silence is never good. Don't want to tell you how to run your business but keeping your customers informed I think is something you may want to do. Just my opinion.

Charlie
Message: Posted by: Peter Loughran (Jan 30, 2014 04:36PM)
Hey Guys, sorry for the late reply. I'm currently in the hospital battling a severe infection, so I have been unable to post until now. I think Jason was planning on posting something shortly when he got home because we just saw the posts today. It was originally announced and stated on the website at the time of order that the first run would be completed by Feb 15th. And I believe we are still right on track with that and with no forseen delays.

Thanks again for your patience.
Message: Posted by: J M Talbot (Jan 30, 2014 07:17PM)
Thanks for the update Peter. Look after yourself, that is more important.

Cheers,

John
Message: Posted by: Jason Palter (Jan 31, 2014 12:16PM)
Hello all:

Sorry for the late reply on this; things have been a little busy! lol

Peter is correct, the first run will be shipping (as per our above posts) by February 15th at the latest. This date was originally on our site during the pre-order period, but was taken down by accident when we we sold out and took down the purchase buttons; we will put it back up shortly.

It is possible that we may in fact be shipping earlier (if all goes well), and we will let you know as soon as we know. As you can probably imagine, there is a lot to do and coordinate with this project!

Please let us know if you have any other questions. Thank you again for all your support!

Best regards,

Jason
Message: Posted by: ChasVH (Jan 31, 2014 03:02PM)
Sorry guy's..... I missed the info about the 15th or I would not have written what I did. I apologize and after reading back what I wrote it came across as way too harsh and again I am sorry I wrote it that way. Not knowing about the Feb 15th date (when this item came out I just ordered immediately and really did not read anything), I hope you can understand somewhat where I was coming from. Anyway I appreciate the update. Peter I hope things are improving for you health wise as I know it has been a tough rode these last few months. I truly have been thinking about you and your family. Hang in there..

Charlie
Message: Posted by: ThatsCool (Jan 31, 2014 11:27PM)
[quote]
On 2014-01-30 16:55, ChasVH wrote:
I agree with Rhett.... I ordered as well, paid and have heard nothing. You should at least give an update on a shipping date as a common courtesy....if you are not sure then tell us. Silence is never good. Don't want to tell you how to run your business but keeping your customers informed I think is something you may want to do. Just my opinion.

Charlie
[/quote]

[i]Tenyo Elite[/i] has done nothing wrong and have kept their customers informed from the very beginning.

It said right on their website that pre orders were expected February 15th.
Message: Posted by: ChasVH (Feb 1, 2014 01:30AM)
I agree That'sCool that is why I apologized a few post later. But to be clear here I never saw the pre-order shipping date of Feb 15th as I ordered the minute I saw the opportunity and what the effect was. Mind you this is still no excuse to say what I said and that is why I apologized, especially in light of Peter's illness. So I hope all is forgiven and we can move on. Thanks

Charlie
Message: Posted by: Peter Loughran (Feb 1, 2014 07:26AM)
No apology necessary Charlie. I understand, and the shipping date was accidently removed by our web guy after we sold out and took the purchase buttons down. So if you did not notice the listed shipping date at the time of order then it makes perfect sense to have your concern. We've contacted our web guy and asked them to put the expected shipping date back up on the website as soon as they can, so if our customers forgot the date or missed it the first time they will be able to see it when they re-visit our site.

All is good my friend, and thank you(and john) for the well wishes. The good news is my white blood cell counts are back up and the antibiotics are kicking butt, so I'm hoping I get to go home today and in time to see the Super Bowl tomorrow! To bad neither of our favorite teams made it in, but it should be a good game to watch nonetheless with great food and friends.

:)
Message: Posted by: Wizard of Oz (Feb 1, 2014 08:39AM)
Great to hear you are on the mend Peter!
Message: Posted by: ThatsCool (Feb 1, 2014 11:49PM)
[quote]
On 2014-02-01 02:30, ChasVH wrote:
I agree That'sCool that is why I apologized a few post later. But to be clear here I never saw the pre-order shipping date of Feb 15th as I ordered the minute I saw the opportunity and what the effect was. Mind you this is still no excuse to say what I said and that is why I apologized, especially in light of Peter's illness. So I hope all is forgiven and we can move on. Thanks
Charlie
[/quote]

I saw that after I posted Charlie. Good for you on the apology 👍 . I agree with you about not jumping to conclusions, that's why I was surprised at your initial post.

Regardless, nobody is perfect and we all make mistakes here and there.

2014 seems to have brought good things to [i]Tenyo Elite[/i] and more importantly, Peter's health. Glad you are feeling better Peter :).
Message: Posted by: Steven Conner (Feb 6, 2014 07:56PM)
[quote]
On 2014-01-12 10:58, Jason Palter wrote:
Hello all:

Thank you so much for all your continued support, comments and orders! I wanted to let you know a couple of things:  First, I just heard from our manufacturer, and it looks like these might even be shipping earlier than February 15th!

Best regards,

Jason
[/quote]

Any chance this will still happen.
Message: Posted by: Jason Palter (Feb 6, 2014 08:18PM)
Hi Steven:

Thank you for your inquiry. I'm gonna take a wild stab here, and say you're just as anxious to get these as we are (and everyone else is), right???? LOL!!

As Peter has mentioned before, these are hand-crafted so they are taking some time. However I spoke to our manufacturer tonight, and the Zig Zag Cig is on schedule to ship next week to everyone.....the problem is that I'm just not exactly sure when. I'm hoping that it will be Wednesday or Thursday, but I can't promise anything. Stay tuned, because I'll post an update as soon as I know more.

Please let me know if you have any other questions. Thank you all again!

Best regards,

Jason
Message: Posted by: Steven Conner (Feb 7, 2014 07:18AM)
Thanks Jason, this is really exciting. It's like a race horse waiting to get out of the gate.
Message: Posted by: Steven Conner (Feb 14, 2014 04:18PM)
Is shipping on schedule.
Message: Posted by: Jason Palter (Feb 14, 2014 09:27PM)
Oh Steven.....how did we just KNOW that you'd be the first eager-beaver to post the night before shipping?! LOL!!! Well done, my friend! (the horse getting out of the gate was a good parallel. lol)

Yes it looks like everything will be packaged and shipping on schedule tomorrow (but of course, there is no post in Canada on Saturday, so they will actually go out on Monday).

I will post an update tomorrow when I know better. But please be patient if I don't respond right away; there are a lot of things to put together and prepare as you can imagine.

Thank you all again!

Best regards,

Jason
Message: Posted by: Wizard of Oz (Feb 15, 2014 08:32AM)
That's great news Jason. Thanks for the update.
I believe Monday is President's Day, so no mail unfortunately.
Message: Posted by: Jason Palter (Feb 16, 2014 10:58PM)
Hello all:

Whew! I have finally had a chance to catch up, send confirmation emails to everyone, and now post here! Everyone's Zig Zag Cig shipped yesterday.....However because there is a holiday in Canada on Monday ("Family Day") and a holiday in the USA also ("Presidents Day"), the parcels of course will not go out until Tuesday.

I was so blown away by how great these things look and work----even better than the prototype! I have no doubt everyone will love theirs!

If you are interested in a possible second and final run, please send us an email at sales@tenyoelite.com (or just fill out the request at http://www.tenyoelite.com), and if and when we do a second run, you will be added to the list, and notified when payment is due for your pre-order.

Thank you again everyone for your orders, and your continued support and best wishes!

Best regards,

Jason
Message: Posted by: J M Talbot (Feb 17, 2014 09:31AM)
Great news Jason! Thanks for the update. Happy Family Day!

John
Message: Posted by: Wizard of Oz (Feb 17, 2014 08:43PM)
Awesome. It's snowy here in Cleveland, but I'm sitting by my mailbox. I'm ready.
Message: Posted by: Peter Loughran (Feb 20, 2014 04:53PM)
I suspect a few of our Canadian customers may have theirs today. :)
Message: Posted by: J M Talbot (Feb 20, 2014 08:07PM)
Just picked mine up at the Post Office! Have only had a brief look but am very impressed. Beautifully made and works great. Am going to read the booklet tonight and spend more time with it this weekend. Am glad I took the plunge, congrats on a great job Tenyo Elite team!

John
Message: Posted by: Steven Conner (Feb 20, 2014 08:25PM)
Hey Jason, you ROCK!!
Message: Posted by: Peter Loughran (Feb 20, 2014 08:57PM)
Hey John that's awesome! Thanks for sharing!
Message: Posted by: Richard Kaufman (Feb 21, 2014 12:01AM)
Waiting for mine!
Message: Posted by: J M Talbot (Feb 22, 2014 07:52AM)
Have had some time to play with this and compare it side by side with the original. You will be impressed with how well this is made. Being made of wood it has a solid feel. Unlike the original the center will not move until you push it. With the original you have to be careful as the center can slide on it's own when tilted. It takes a bit of force to push or "zag" the center. This is a good thing and I think adds to the illusion.

Another thing I really like is that the unit can stand upright on a table in either the closed or "zagged" position. It is slightly thicker than the original and has a perfectly flat bottom. The original will not stand up unsupported. I think this will allow for better displays when performing it at a table, also will look nice displayed upright on a shelf.

It comes with a golf pencil and aluminum bar. If you want to use a cigarette you will need to prepare one yourself. The instructions give some nice tips on doing that properly. You could obviously use the fake one that came with the original if you wanted. So far I am really liking the aluminum bar. Some interesting stories are possible with this and they provide a presentational hook to get you started. You can also use the "signature" idea with this using a dry erase marker. This gives it a neat "test conditions" feel. When using the bar or golf pencil you do need to be careful not to have anything rattle when you don't want it to. However a few trials will show this is not a big issue.

As with the previous Elite releases the packaging is the beautiful black box with classy graphics. The instruction booklet is great with many handling tips, some history and background on the effect. Everything feels first class.

Overall an impressive release that I think the 50 lucky purchasers will be very happy with. This will be a sought after item on the secondary market in future years.

John
Message: Posted by: Wizard of Oz (Feb 22, 2014 08:58AM)
Terrific review. I'm hoping to get mine on Monday.
Message: Posted by: J M Talbot (Feb 22, 2014 09:17AM)
Thanks Wiz, I know you will like it.

John
Message: Posted by: Peter Loughran (Feb 22, 2014 11:32AM)
Thanks for writing the review John!
Message: Posted by: Richard Kaufman (Feb 22, 2014 07:47PM)
Eagerly waiting for mine in the mail. But I wouldn't use a Dry Erase marker: everyone knows that their signature can be fiddled with. Better to use a small round sticker which the spectator has already initialed.
Message: Posted by: J M Talbot (Feb 22, 2014 09:08PM)
Space is pretty limited Richard, using a sticker would be tricky. I think the fact that the spectator makes a mark and it never leaves thier sight will seal the deal.
Message: Posted by: cbusch55 (Feb 23, 2014 07:39AM)
Mine arrived yesterday. Just starting to play with it. Looks good.
Message: Posted by: roblane (Feb 23, 2014 01:59PM)
Really like the signature on the bar idea, thanks John. Eagerly awaiting arrival in UK
Message: Posted by: J M Talbot (Feb 23, 2014 03:17PM)
Cannot take credit for the signature idea unfortunately :-)
Message: Posted by: ChasVH (Feb 24, 2014 03:13PM)
Received mine today and its everything you guy's said it would be. Well done. Tough job making this one out of wood I tell you but you did it. The action is smooth and convincing just like the original which is all you can ask for.

Cant wait for the next item..

Congrats guys!

Charlie
Message: Posted by: Peter Loughran (Feb 24, 2014 09:10PM)
Hey thanks for the mini review Charlie. I'm pleased we were able to meet your expectations! Each one was built with love!

P. :-)
Message: Posted by: Richard Kaufman (Feb 25, 2014 04:22PM)
Received mine today. A beautiful job and works perfectly.

John: yes, space is limited, but fortunately there are stickers small enough to fit!

The idea of signing the center section comes from the Japanese magician Kunihiko Kiyotomo.
Message: Posted by: Peter Loughran (Feb 25, 2014 06:50PM)
Great to hear it arrived safely Richard and you are enjoying it! I enjoyed your Facebook picture and comments also!

:-)
Message: Posted by: JimW (Feb 25, 2014 07:11PM)
I'm really hoping for a second run of these.
Message: Posted by: Peter Loughran (Feb 25, 2014 07:29PM)
We will be making our decision on a second run very soon, because if we are going to do it, it must be done soon because we are already starting to work on the next release and time is limited. However if we do a second run, there will only be 50 more made bringing the entire total of 100 units built, and then that will be it. The trick will be retired from our line and no more will ever be made. Please contact us if you haven't done so already if you are interested in purchasing one from a second run, because the people on the list will be contacted first to alert them that the pre-order buttons are active on our site for purchase. We will also make secondary announcements here, and to our mailing list group. Like the first run, it will be a first come/first serve opportunity. Look for the announcement (either yes or no) in the next week or so.

P.
Message: Posted by: Jason Palter (Feb 25, 2014 09:52PM)
Hello all:

I just wanted to add on to what Peter wrote above. Please be sure to send us an email at sales@tenyoelite.com if you are interested in being contacted if we do this second run. Thanks!

Best regards,

Jason
Message: Posted by: roblane (Feb 26, 2014 05:33AM)
Mines just landed at the Post Office. Have to wait til lunchtime to collect!
Message: Posted by: Peter Loughran (Feb 26, 2014 06:14AM)
That's excellent Rob, I'm anxious to hear your thoughts on it. :-)
Message: Posted by: Steven Conner (Feb 26, 2014 03:56PM)
Got Mine today. What work!! Very, very awesome. Worth the wait,smooth operation and love the metal rod. Thanks guys.

Steve
Message: Posted by: Jason Palter (Feb 26, 2014 04:15PM)
Thanks Steve, so glad that you 're happy with it!

Best regards,

Jason
Message: Posted by: roblane (Feb 27, 2014 12:53AM)
It's absolutely gorgeous! I love the way the natural oils and enzymes in the wood are able to redistribute the molecules of the strange metal (?) found in one of the famous UFO sites in the UK! (Rendlesham)
Message: Posted by: ThatsCool (Feb 27, 2014 01:25AM)
A routine I made up incorporate Steve Dusheck's "Wonder Bar" into this using the metal silver bar.

I explain while visiting Roswell I found a solid, silver metal bar in the desert that must have been part of the crash debris. The bar magically levitates (Wonder Bar), and even restores itself when I cut it into 3 pieces, (Tenyo Elite's "Zig Zag Cig (Bar)" .
Message: Posted by: Peter Loughran (Feb 27, 2014 05:55AM)
Thanks for sharing Rob!

That's Cool-nice idea, I like it! Did you get your 2 units yet?
Message: Posted by: Steve Brooks (Feb 27, 2014 03:46PM)
I'm happy everyone is pleased with our new release. :)

For personal reasons I'm also happy that you are enjoying the included metal rod.

Thanks for your continued support everyone! :nod:
Message: Posted by: JimW (Feb 27, 2014 03:58PM)
One more run! I'm hoping...
Message: Posted by: Wizard of Oz (Feb 28, 2014 08:09PM)
Opened mine tonight. Well, it was worth the wait. This is indeed a little piece of special. I'm not quite sure how they managed to make this out of wood, but they did. And it looks and works great. Everything hits the mark, including the packaging and detailed instructions. I love the added historical bits.

Very well done Tenyo Elite team. I salute you, and am already camped out by my mailbox for the next release. (No pressure or anything ;) )
Message: Posted by: Julie (Mar 11, 2014 04:34PM)
Any more reviews of this latest release by Tenyo Elite?

Julie
Message: Posted by: MaxfieldsMagic (Mar 12, 2014 11:46PM)
I LOVE this! Seriously, this is the perfect mini-illusion. Absolutely spot-on. So far I've just been using the metal bar, but it gets great reactions. There's a nice idea for a line of presentation in the instructions that helps put the focus on the bar, rather than the box, and lets you riff a bit. Last person I did it for anticipated where it was going and said, "no WAY you're going to put that back together..." And then BAM.

The craftsmanship is beautiful - I can't imagine this being any better made or more fooling, for what it is. Nice way to add a light-hearted "stage illusion" to your strolling set.
Message: Posted by: Steven Conner (Mar 13, 2014 08:23AM)
[quote]
On Mar 11, 2014, Julie wrote:
Any more reviews of this latest release by Tenyo Elite?

Julie
[/quote]

How many reviews are needed. It's not a new trick but a beautiful and masterful piece of work.
Message: Posted by: Julie (Mar 13, 2014 11:13AM)
Well, friend Steve, the reason I asked is that I'm considering ordering one from the second run (IF there is one), but honestly from the pictures I have seen this is not a very good-looking prop. I'm happy it seems it will work well and last, but it just looks too "rustic" for my taste. I guess I'm still on the fence...

I'm not trying to be confrontational or argumentative, simply responding openly to your query.

Julie
Message: Posted by: pierredan (Mar 13, 2014 02:32PM)
Julile, if you feel that way stick to the plastic one. This is really meant for Tenyo collectors who would pre-order blind, not even knowing what they were getting. I'm happy I did.
Message: Posted by: Julie (Mar 13, 2014 05:00PM)
[quote]
On Mar 13, 2014, pierredan wrote:
Julile, if you feel that way stick to the plastic one. This is really meant for Tenyo collectors who would pre-order blind, not even knowing what they were getting. I'm happy I did.
[/quote]

:)

Julie
Message: Posted by: Wizard of Oz (Mar 13, 2014 09:30PM)
Hi Julie,
I've always enjoyed your thoughtful and constructive posts, so I'll interject here with some - hopefully - useful information.

Engineering-wise, I believe this is a quality prop all the way, and well-worth the money once I saw the construction. However, esthetics are purely subjective, so my opinion regarding how the prop looks could be completely invalid for you. For me, the visual appeal of this prop can be seen in its artful application of micro-magic design combined with the use of wood to create an earthy-looking artifact. It's not aged, but the wood gives it an instinctively organic and tactile quality. The metal bar is the exclamation point. Perfectly odd and perfectly magical.
Message: Posted by: Julie (Mar 13, 2014 11:28PM)
Thanks Wiz

I appreciate your observations. I now agree and understand this may not be of the caliber, appearance-wise, to match my sensibilities. :)
(purely my subjective evaluation)

I guess I was hoping for more appealing photographs, but it is what it is. I understand the allure to Tenyo collectors; just as I understand some of my own treasured wooden favorites might realistically be more desirable in a somewhat rougher format to someone performing in a specific venue.

I wonder what the next Elite item will be?

Julie
Message: Posted by: teevtee (Mar 14, 2014 11:03AM)
I agree that th photos have not done Tenyo Elite any favors. They are not "bad" by any means but neither are they artful or very good at romancing the look of the prop.
I happen to be a professional photographer and magic is a long time hobby of mine. Great photos of this woudl really help a lot one way or the other. I have NOT seen one in person but my reaction to the photos was the same as Julie's... it felt rough or like a block of unfinished wood in the photos. It may not be like that at all but it may be... who knows.

As an aside if the Tenyo guys need to great shots of product please feel free to PM me. I would be happy to help as a favor and I can send you a link to my web site... I shoot product for advertising as a living... I am sure we could elevate the image of these props quite a bit.
Message: Posted by: Peter Loughran (Mar 14, 2014 05:50PM)
Thank you for your offer and comments to Teevtee and Juilie! :-)
If you come to Canada we may have to take you up on your kind offer. Although you'll have to fire our current photographer. :-)

But honestly I don't think any photo from any photographer will ever do any Tenyo Elite items justice. Until you actually hold one of our tricks in your hand and "feel" them it's just not the same as looking at them. In addition to photos we also supply videos of all our tricks to show them in a different format other than stills.

But wiz nailed it, the look of a prop is purely subjective, some will love it, some won't, but regardless we are very satisfied with our product visual marketing results with the zigzag cig, since not only did we sell out in a week or two, but we get emails everyday from people wanting to buy one from a second run if we decide to do that.

The decision on whether we do a second run on the zigzag cig is currently on hold for a couple of weeks. We have decided to concentrate on the R&D for the next effect first before we make the decision.

P.
Message: Posted by: Jason Palter (Mar 14, 2014 10:22PM)
Hello all:

I just have to chime in on what one of my partners, Peter wrote regarding the actual HOLDING of one of our Tenyo Elite products in your hand. He is 100% correct: photos and the videos simply do not do the tricks justice.

The best story/example I can give was when we launched the product line a few years ago at the World Magic Seminar in Las Vegas. There had already been some hype and information on these tricks, including some videos and pictures. I wish I could remember this guy's name, but this incident happened with the first guy that I ended up talking to at our booth in the dealers room. He said that he had heard a lot about the tricks, and was anxious to see (as he put it) "what the big deal was". lol I took one of the products out of the display case and put it into his hand to examine (I don't remember which trick it was). He got this look on his face, slightly closed his eyes and tilted his head back and said with astonishment, "NOW I understand what the big deal is!". It was a great moment, and further showed me that you really have to see and feel these things in person.

Anyhow that was my story! lol

Thank you again for all of your continued support!

Best regards,

Jason
Message: Posted by: teevtee (Mar 15, 2014 09:03AM)
I have zero doubt that one needs to touch and feel these to understand them fully. I also understand that since zig zag cig sold out relatively quickly you may not see any need for more dramatic or detailed photos. I also acknowledged that your current photos do a fine job in documenting the basic look if the product.

With that said trust me when I say better photos could romance the products and help tell the story much more.
The point if great product photography is to take something and help elevate it and tell the story of what it is so that people may understand it even without holding it. If it is rustic then emphasize the texture. If it is finely finished allow the sheen to create a smoothness one can almost feel. If it is a mysterious product use the deep shadows to tell the story.

It is the difference between showing a trick and having a great routine for that trick. While both are similar a routine creates a much better experience.
Message: Posted by: Steven Conner (Mar 15, 2014 11:43AM)
Hey Julie, I apologize for sounding short. In no way did I mean to come across as condescending. This is really a classic and for me something I am using. I'm not a collector so pictures don't mean much to me but I understand why others would be concerned with perhaps better photos. Using the steel rod is really killer and if you can get this think you would be pleased.

Best
Message: Posted by: Julie (Mar 15, 2014 12:25PM)
No offense taken, Steve, but I do appreciate your update. That's what makes the Café so great> we can feel free to share our honest opinions and thoughts with each other!

Sincerely,

Julie
Message: Posted by: Chance Wolf (Mar 15, 2014 12:37PM)
I am a bit confused by the requests for "better" photos.
Tenyo Elite has provided an HD Video showing the prop in motion and VERY clearly.
Technically they have posted about 100,000 excellent photos by simply clicking the pause button on the video demo.
There are plenty of moments showing the sheen and texture as well as it's layered construction.
I find it best viewed on YouTube using the Medium size view setting and NOT Full Screen.

Granted the promo shot is not as clear as it can be but I think 100% of the folks WATCH the video demo.
Just my humble opinion.
Message: Posted by: Wizard of Oz (Mar 15, 2014 01:07PM)
I think teevtee was just trying to be constructive. While you're absolutely right Chance regarding the quality of photography and video that Tenyo Elite already has (it really is perfectly fine), I understand exactly what teevtee is saying. As a graphic designer I can speak to the power of dynamic imagery, and the different moods captured by different photographic styles. But again we are in the realm of the subjective, and clearly - as seen by the quick sellout - Tenyo Elite didn't need any different type of photography than they already have.
Message: Posted by: Chance Wolf (Mar 15, 2014 01:19PM)
Oz,
Nothing I like more than a Hi-Res photo!! Your point of clear photography is spot on.
Over the past ten years, we tried to set an example of showing LARGE detailed close ups and multiple views of all of our products as I knew the most important thing to communicate is the QUALITY and the only way to obtain that goal was to get right in on the prop as if they were holding it in their hands.

However...now there is such a huge demand for video demos, don't get me started on my disdain for making them, now it seems everyone just goes right to the video ignoring the pics for the most part...as well as add copy which leads to 1000 unnecessary emails.

So truth is, the clear photos are VERY important as long as people take the time to view them.

Hope all is well with you and your magic!
Chance
Message: Posted by: teevtee (Mar 15, 2014 01:58PM)
Chance, as Oz pointed out I meant no offense at all.

The video and photos they have posted are fine but they lack any sort of artistic point of view. It is not ONLY about being clear. In fact some if the best photography uses very shallow depth if field and allows parts of the image to go soft or fall into shadows.

There are catalog style shots meant to document what something looks like. Those are fine and straightforward. I'm talking about something different.
Photography can simultaneously show what a product is and also elevate it and tell a story about it. Look at any beer add or car add. The images in car brochures for example elevate the product beyond a mere documentation. This is what Tenyo Elite or any product could benefit from in my opinion.

When you are aiming for a special high end feel everything works together and having beautiful photography is key to that and a lot more than just being high res.
Message: Posted by: Wizard of Oz (Mar 15, 2014 02:40PM)
[quote]
On Mar 15, 2014, Chance Wolf wrote:
Hope all is well with you and your magic!
Chance
[/quote]

You as well!
I've been having a lot of fun with your PaddleCraft Black paddles. I think Shattered 2 is my favorite, but they're all great!
Best!
Message: Posted by: Chance Wolf (Mar 15, 2014 03:06PM)
[quote]
On Mar 15, 2014, teevtee wrote:
Chance, as Oz pointed out I meant no offense at all.

The video and photos they have posted are fine but they lack any sort of artistic point of view. It is not ONLY about being clear. In fact some if the best photography uses very shallow depth if field and allows parts of the image to go soft or fall into shadows.

There are catalog style shots meant to document what something looks like. Those are fine and straightforward. I'm talking about something different.
Photography can simultaneously show what a product is and also elevate it and tell a story about it. Look at any beer add or car add. The images in car brochures for example elevate the product beyond a mere documentation. This is what Tenyo Elite or any product could benefit from in my opinion.

When you are aiming for a special high end feel everything works together and having beautiful photography is key to that and a lot more than just being high res.
[/quote]


NO Offense taken and I could not agree more. :)
I was only pointing out that if they need to see more details then just dissect the video.
Man, if I had a pro photographer on hand, I would use him on every shot.

To get back on track...this really is an AWESOME recreation of a classic effect that I simply cannot grasp how they pulled it off in wood!
Great job once again Tenyo Elite!!
Message: Posted by: ThatsCool (Mar 16, 2014 01:06AM)
I think the [i]Tenyo Elite[/i] items,([i]Moon Spinner, Fortune Sticks, and Zig Zag Cig[/i]), photograph fine.

Here are some photographs I took for the upcoming review on my site, [i]MagicTrickReview.com[/i] coming soon :).
[IMG]http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z71/MoviePropCollector/TEBox1_zpsce19aa17.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z71/MoviePropCollector/TE1_zps9ec98f75.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z71/MoviePropCollector/TE2_zpsa6edd5e2.jpg[/IMG]
Message: Posted by: Eddie Garland (Mar 22, 2014 11:53PM)
Hey!
I certainly hope they do a second run of this prop because I do feel bad for those who missed out!
Message: Posted by: scenic effects (Mar 23, 2014 04:06PM)
I was wondering if you could comment on the possibility of a second run; are you getting close to the needed number of interested people to warrant producing more? Thanks!
Message: Posted by: Peter Loughran (Mar 25, 2014 06:54AM)
Hi Scenic Effects,

We believe we have more then enough interest to sell out of another run if we decide to do one, but we decided to put it on hold while we work on the R&D of the next Tenyo Elite Item first before we make our final decision. Our new business format is structured to produce new items more often, and so time may not always allow us to produce more then one run of any particular item. Many factors will dictate this decision such as demand and manufacturing complexity/time.

Thanks for your patience.

Peter
Message: Posted by: jaizon (Sep 11, 2014 10:52AM)
Do another run! Please. Or someone please sell me yours.
Message: Posted by: ThatsCool (Sep 14, 2014 01:55PM)
Please don't do a second run :).
Message: Posted by: Holistic Magic (Sep 18, 2014 07:31AM)
OMG, when I saw this at the top of the list I thought I missed the new trick that is due to be announced any time now. Is there a way to buy it sight unseen? I would do that?
Message: Posted by: roblane (Oct 3, 2014 01:15PM)
Just ordered mine!! ;-)
Message: Posted by: Steve Brooks (Oct 3, 2014 01:28PM)
Going...going... :rainbow:
Message: Posted by: Wizard of Oz (Oct 3, 2014 01:29PM)
Peter just announced it!
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=556925&forum=259&start=30
Message: Posted by: teevtee (Oct 3, 2014 03:36PM)
I ordered and have a PAyPal reciept but the Tenyou Elite website still shows that I have it in my basket... it's all kind of confusing and while I know I sent payment I am not feeling positive that the order went through.
Can someone from Tenyo Elite please confirm?
Message: Posted by: MagiChrisMitch (Oct 3, 2014 06:04PM)
Ordered, now my ultra tube on flea bay ending tonight will be failing or soaring in case someone really must have both. Called this scenario weeks ago
Message: Posted by: Jason Palter (Oct 3, 2014 06:30PM)
Hello all:

SOLD OUT!!!......well actually, we are "over-sold". Thank you so much to everyone who bought one of our Tenyo Elite Ultra Tubes. We will be taking the Paypal buttons down from our site shortly, and sending refunds to those who were too late and still paid. However those people will be kept on a "special" list and will be notified first before anyone else when we do a second run.

Stay tuned, because in the coming months we are planning on doing a second and final run. Thank you again!

Best regards,

Jason
Message: Posted by: teevtee (Oct 3, 2014 06:36PM)
Jason-

Are you sending confirmations to those who purchased these?

I paid and I was fairly early in the process but I'd like some confirmation.

Thanks
Message: Posted by: Jason Palter (Oct 3, 2014 07:19PM)
Hi teevtee:

We are having a strange issue with Paypal, and for some reason people are not being sent their confirmations. I don't have your real name (I only know your handle here on the Café) so I can't do a quick check to let you know right away). Yes we will be sending confirmations, but there is just so much we are all in the middle of---Tenyo Elite stuff, and our own businesses/personal stuff. lol We will get to you; it just may take some time.

Thanks!

Best regards,

Jason
Message: Posted by: teevtee (Oct 3, 2014 07:21PM)
Thank you for the response Jason I appreciate it.
Message: Posted by: Wizard of Oz (Oct 3, 2014 08:08PM)
Wondering the same thing myself, so I'm glad the team is on it.

Congrats on the sell-out guys. No surprise.
Message: Posted by: Jason Palter (Oct 3, 2014 08:52PM)
Hello everyone:

We're just trying to clear up everything here. We will be sending emails out to those who ordered past the cut-off, and will be refunding your money. We will try to get to everyone else to confirm, but please be patient. Thanks so much!

Best regards,

Jason
Message: Posted by: cbusch55 (Oct 3, 2014 08:57PM)
Wow ! Sold out too quick for me to see the notice and I had been checking. How do I get on the list for the second run?
Message: Posted by: cbusch55 (Oct 3, 2014 08:59PM)
And I might add - a faster sell out than Magic Wagon.
Message: Posted by: teevtee (Oct 3, 2014 10:13PM)
They chose wisely with Ultra Tube.
There are several others with similar pent up demand as well.
Message: Posted by: tdowell (Oct 3, 2014 10:38PM)
Is there a happy medium here T.E.???

The first two Elite items overproduced

The second two underproduced

Yes, I admit my sour grapes, but I've lost interest. I'd rather spend $300 on a set of Lassen coins.
Message: Posted by: MagiChrisMitch (Oct 3, 2014 11:19PM)
I promptly received paypal confirmation today after purchase.
Message: Posted by: simcoscor (Oct 3, 2014 11:27PM)
I received my Paypal confirmation as well...
Message: Posted by: Steve Brooks (Oct 3, 2014 11:43PM)
[b]tdowell[/b] said; "[i]Is there a happy medium here T.E.??? The first two Elite items overproduced. The second two underproduced.
Yes, I admit my sour grapes, but I've lost interest. I'd rather spend $300 on a set of Lassen coins[/i]"

Sorry you feel that way [b]tdowell[/b].

Frankly, I could practically write a book on our TENYO adventures these past few years and what a ride it has been. :)

We have learned a ton from our experiences and I make absolutely no apologies for the tricks we have chosen, how they are made and what we have priced them at.

Honestly, for the amount of time and money we have spent I could have easily purchased a house and I'll leave it at that sir.

We do NOT choose the tricks based on whether or not everyone will like them. We could care less if lay people know their secrets. The fact that they are TENYO items is enough for us.

Always remember, we are not the only ones making the choices here. The tricks belong to TENYO - in a sense they are their children and the company has intrusted us to take good care of them.
Many times a particular trick excites us but TENYO proper has the final say on whether it can become an official Elite item. Unlike a few unscrupulous individuals who are producing unauthorized TENYO items (Read: STEALING) we are officially licensed by TENYO and follow their advice, guidelines and final wishes. Yes, we have great respect for TENYO and its legacy.

I suppose if I were Bill Gates I could purchase the TENYO company and we could do anything we please, but the reality is we do what we can, as we can and I'm okay with that arrangement.

I personally do not feel any trick that [url=http://www.tenyoelite.com]Tenyo Elite[/url] has produced is over or under produced. They have been presented in the fashion that circumstances dictate they be - nothing more and nothing less. We love TENYO and are honored to be able to be associated with their great product line.

If someone loves TENYO items as much as we do, they can and will appreciate everything we have done thus far. If not - they can have fun on ebay.

I will end this small rant simply by saying; Enjoy your Lassen coins, like [url=http://www.tenyoelite.com]Tenyo Elite[/url] items they are worth every penny. :goodluck:

---
Message: Posted by: simcoscor (Oct 4, 2014 09:16PM)
[quote]On Oct 4, 2014, simcoscor wrote:
I received my Paypal confirmation as well... [/quote]

Now, I just received a refund of my $310 payment... That's weird...

Simon Corneille
Message: Posted by: MagiChrisMitch (Oct 5, 2014 12:07AM)
[quote]On Oct 4, 2014, simcoscor wrote:
[quote]On Oct 4, 2014, simcoscor wrote:
I received my Paypal confirmation as well... [/quote]

Now, I just received a refund of my $310 payment...

Simon Corneille [/quote]

+1
Same for me, no worries only 50. At least I have several originals. It's just such a fun trick to show people. It always gets em! Still leaning towards thinking the elite version will trigger higher auction prices for one the favorite T s. Anyone interested pm me. Congratulations elite team on this latest release and sellout of all 50 of them, wow!
Message: Posted by: Peter Loughran (Oct 5, 2014 09:15AM)
Hi everyone,

Wow thanks for huge support! We sold out in 5 hours and we did not anticipate that quick of a sellout. We knew they would go fast, but did not think it would be that fast.

However if you missed the first run do not worry.

We put all of our "over sales" and potential interested buyers on a "first to be notified" list for the second run of that particular product, and in the case of the last 2 releases, there will certainly be a second run for both zig zag and ultra tube. Both lists still have available reservation spots, just put your name in by emailing us as stated on our website and ad banners, "Contact us to be notified of the 2nd and final run." And once we receive the email we will put you on that VIP list to ensure that we satisfy the demand of all of our valued Tenyo Elite customers the best that we can.
Message: Posted by: teevtee (Oct 5, 2014 09:52AM)
I don't think that the Elite version will effect prices for the original one way or the other.

It's its own thing. There are very few of them and real collectors will want both. Casual collectors will likely not be willing to pay for either. The prices had hit a peak and have been falling a bit more because of market saturation than anything else I would guess.
Message: Posted by: MagiChrisMitch (Oct 5, 2014 12:18PM)
Great news Peter! Thank you for providing how the 2nd run will be handled. Also, hope all is going your way regarding your health. Keep pushing forward!
Chris
Message: Posted by: JimW (Oct 5, 2014 02:07PM)
"there will certainly be a second run for both zig zag and ultra tube."

Ahhh, this is the news I've been hoping to hear for MONTHS! I'm happy to hear there will be a second run of the zig zag cig. The Elite versions really look great.
Message: Posted by: MagiChrisMitch (Oct 5, 2014 02:29PM)
Yes many wil celebrate this update regarding the additional runs of both ZZ & UT !!!
Message: Posted by: aechecop (Oct 5, 2014 06:50PM)
+1, this is going to turn into my new addiction... ALan Warner 1st, Magic Wagon 2nd...
Message: Posted by: GeorgeG (Oct 6, 2014 01:32AM)
Missed out on zigzag but rushed on this one when I found the e-mail on my phone. Now hopefully I can get zigzag with the 2nd run. As an avid Tenyo and Alan Warner fan, these beautiful wood pieces are a most welcome addition to my collection.
Message: Posted by: ThatsCool (Oct 6, 2014 04:33AM)
Weird. I'm on the mailing list after buying the Zig Zag, and received no email about this item. Luckily I ordered two after hearing about it from someone.

Hope the order went through :).

It looks beautiful.
Message: Posted by: Wizard of Oz (Oct 6, 2014 07:47PM)
That'sCool, did you check to make sure it didn't go into your spam folder?
Message: Posted by: ThatsCool (Oct 7, 2014 01:29AM)
[quote]On Oct 6, 2014, Wizard of Oz wrote:
That'sCool, did you check to make sure it didn't go into your spam folder? [/quote]

Yes. Nothing :(.
Message: Posted by: roblane (Nov 9, 2014 07:50AM)
Mid Nov was the quoted release so hopefully only a week or so to go..........
Message: Posted by: pierredan (Nov 10, 2014 09:05AM)
Really, three times the same post?