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Topic: Why do we feel the way we do about other kids' entertainers?
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Jan 19, 2014 08:10PM)
At times some of us do feel a little negligence towards another kids' entertainer. I happen to notice it in certain threads. It took me some time to put the puzzle together. What helps me to connect the pieces is I have felt the same situation too. Anyone notices when an individual wins a million pounds/dollars from a lottery? At times I had the feeling I wish it was me instead. I never met the individual who won, but still feel some type of jealously.

Picture how David Blaine made it to the top of being well known. A lot of magicians know they could have done just as good. You guys can throw me in the circle too for feeling the same towards him. He met the right person to put him on the spot. I know a lot of magicians who are better with close-up. But the promoter was looking for a certain personality and character to get the viewers attention so they will keep watching the show. It works the same for tv episodes. The first show is the pilot. David Blaine did good for his pilot. I wish I was where he was the right place the right time before he met that right person.

Of course if David performed his magic the common way, I bet he would not have made it to where he is. Since he followed his director instructions, his magic showed a different manner. The viewers enjoyed watching something performed differently. If most of you guys ran into his producer the right time, I bet you would have made it to where David is now.

We all entertain kids. Look at Eric for example. His show is very different from the way most of us perform. He ran into the right people who wanted to see something different. He became well known. That is how he got popular for what he does. His name is well known hundreds of miles/kilometers around him. What he does is what many people want to see for their children. Now remember he does not perform for all ages, just the ones within his age frame, 2-6 year olds. I can not find anything he is doing wrong. Even though he uses a few magic tricks in his show, he still does not call himself a professional magician.

I heard Silly Billy is known as a clown. I bet there are some clowns that feel negligence of him. He made his smart move by being different from others. He is a clown that does not scare kids from wearing make-up and performs magic tricks.

Some magicians will feel a little jealousy towards another. I see nothing wrong with feeling that way because it helps proves the individual has an high ego. The only way it will play wrong is if the individual lets it out towards others. The individual should work on making improvements instead. I used to be the number entertainer in my area. But now a hip hop clown who is also a DJ and raps in his gigs passed me. Here he is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICCCNFVtfkE Detroit likes hip hop. That is what I must focus on to catch up with him.

Let us all feel good about each other. If you do feel jealously, do not show it by complaining about someone else. It proves you are just as strong. Let us work on learning more and making improvements. Let us all be one big team.
Message: Posted by: TomBoleware (Jan 19, 2014 08:32PM)
Well said Mike. Very well said.

Very hard to stand out while standing in the middle of the crowd. One must take that one bold step to set their self apart from the rest

I never could understand all the jealously in magic myself. Magic has more than its fair share of jealous people for sure. Maybe it's because we grew up guarding 'secrets' and we just can't let go and be as giving as we should. I don't know.

Maybe one day the mind experts will do a study to find out why a magicians brain is a little one sided. :)


Still, I love you all.

Tom
Message: Posted by: The Great Zucchini (Jan 19, 2014 08:40PM)
It's an insecure world, it seems, not sure why. I agree, Tom, Great post, Mike
Message: Posted by: jay leslie (Jan 19, 2014 08:46PM)
People who hate other people usually see something in them they don't have themselves. You learn this in psychology 101.

Here's an example. Someone cut's in front of you at the checkout line and you become angry. Part of that anger is that you yourself, can not see yourself being so aggressive - however you wish you could. That does not mean that you will, it just means you feel slightly in-antiquate.
A second example is the poor person vs. the rich person. The poor dislike the rich because they see them as taking advantage of others while the rich think the poor don't work hard enough. In each case one sector secretly wishes they had a little bit of what the other has.

In the case of magicians, The corporate magician hates the party clown for making a living without jumping through hoops and/or uses boxes as opposed to using their minds. The party clown hates the corporate performer for selling-out and towing the "man's" line... which is not pure entertainment.

Magicians and actors are generally incucure. If I am a magician, then I perform miracles others can not.... but if there is a guy down the street that can do better miracles or bigger miracles then me, then I feel threatened. So please don't move down the street from me :)
Message: Posted by: The Great Zucchini (Jan 19, 2014 09:05PM)
I love watching corporate guys. I like watching performers all the time, if I could. A trick that takes skill or a self working trick doesn't make that much of a difference in the mind of a kid show audience, but seems to be huge in the mind of performers watching other performers. If kids are entertained, it doesn't matter how you get there
Message: Posted by: frankieacemagic (Jan 19, 2014 09:22PM)
This is a great post, Mike. I've felt this, too. Part of it is the nature of entrepreneurship, I think. Right? We all want to be the best at what we do. I think that holds true for anything. So there's that. But I also think that the type of person s/he is will dictate the type of magician s/he is. I've met some magicians who were not very friendly to other magicians (or maybe just to me?), or who come off conceited, and I just think to myself, "He would've been that way as a doctor, or teacher, or CEO." I know many magicians who are good people first, magicians second. Tommy James comes to mind. If you e-mail him and ask him something about one of his effects, or his performance--or ANYTHING, really--he will respond in a REAL way. He's a nice guy. And that's what he would've been as as a doctor or banker. He would've been nice! So I think being an entertainer just magnifies whatever we have "going on" in our psyches.
Message: Posted by: danfreed (Jan 19, 2014 09:58PM)
Interesting thread Mike. It does seem like magicians, more than many other professions, get into ego trips and snipe at each other.
Message: Posted by: The Great Zucchini (Jan 19, 2014 10:27PM)
I agree about Tommy. He comes across as extremely genuine and real
Message: Posted by: Jolly Roger (Jan 19, 2014 10:31PM)
I wrote about this very subject when I was guest of Honor on the Café last year. Here is the link:

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=516799&forum=330&7

JR
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Jan 19, 2014 11:07PM)
JR, since that thread is locked, please copy the first post on that thread and start a new thread in this forum too. It will be interesting to discuss since a lot of members missed it. I advise you to start a thread with the first post in the "Food For Thought" forum too. I would like to see their opinions.
Message: Posted by: Jolly Roger (Jan 19, 2014 11:13PM)
Sorry Mike..........but all the threads are locked after you have been guest of honour. That was the time to ask me questions. If anyone else would like to start the topic, or copy my post, that would be fine. If I was to do it myself, some might think I am being egotistical!!!! :angel: JR

PS: Another option is to purchase my soon to be published book, when all will be revealed: http://www.spiritualstage.com
Message: Posted by: charliecheckers (Jan 19, 2014 11:29PM)
[quote]
Some magicians will feel a little jealousy towards another. I see nothing wrong with feeling that way because it helps proves the individual has an high ego. The only way it will play wrong is if the individual lets it out towards others. The individual should work on making improvements instead. I used to be the number entertainer in my area. But now a hip hop clown who is also a DJ and raps in his gigs passed me. Here he is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICCCNFVtfkE Detroit likes hip hop. That is what I must focus on to catch up with him.
[/quote]
This is a great thread on many levels. Dynamike shared a link to a performer that I believe to be outstanding. There are a few things to consider. First, is the reaction one would have to someone like Smiley coming into your area and taking over the number one spot. The second thing is what to do about it. My suggestion would be to move in another direction performance wise because I believe it would be near impossible to beat Smiley at his game.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Jan 20, 2014 12:08AM)
I agree with you Charlie. I remember him calling me when he saw my name in the Yellow Pages about 20 years ago. He was new at clowning he asked me if it is good to be in the Yellow Pages. I told him "Yes." Next he joined. At first he was performing magic with his clown show. He stopped magic years later. He got popular with his hip hop style. I am not jealous of him. We are friends.

Of course I want to be the first place entertainer again in Detroit. I am learning a lot from the Café, not criticizing others. I learned about adding music to my show using Arthur's music. I want to add more physical kid reactions in my show. I want to put more comedy in my show. I am also thinking about adding more animals in my show.

I am a professional with magic, but I am average like other magicians in my area. The customer sees 45-60 minutes of magic. When Smiley stepped up, he opens different doors. Customers call him a lot because he is a whole different type of entertainment. He even pleases the adults as they listen far away to his hip hop music. His customers are getting 3 in 1, a clown, live rap, and a hip hop DJ. There is one female clown who is following Smiley with hip hop. She is still not as good as he is.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Jan 20, 2014 12:27AM)
Oh yea, Charlie. I forgot to mention my other method to compete against him was to why I became a clown. I started it about 4 years ago. I am the number one clown who performs magic in Metro Detroit. My customers are getting 2 in 1.
Message: Posted by: Potty the Pirate (Jan 20, 2014 01:32AM)
[quote]
On 2014-01-20 00:13, Jolly Roger wrote:
Another option is to purchase my soon to be published book, when all will be revealed: http://www.spiritualstage.com
[/quote]

......Soon?

We should all continue to learn as much as we can. Adding new gags and bits of business, keeps our shows fresh. On that front, though, I find it far more serendipitous to garner ideas from sitcoms, TV comedy shows, even soap operas.....where rich pickings are to be had....than to worry too much about other local entertainers.

New routines are fun to learn, and create. Learning a new skill is an even better way to up the game - the more variety, the more adaptable you become.

I personally believe that playing an instrument is a wonderful skill, as it means you can involve the whole audience, and get them all singing....

Maybe this year I'll learn to juggle better.

As to the jealousy thing, I admire talented performers, and I accept that many of the best performers don't ever make the big time. I see little correlation between earnings, fame and talent in the world of entertainment.

But those who work hard, are dedicated, driven, and creative, can and do earn a good living.

Bottom line is, if you're in entertainment for the fame and fortune, you've made a bad choice, since even if you find them, they are not the gates of Paradise. That is where you will find jealousy. If you do it because you love to perform, and it's part of your psyche, it's something you're driven to do, and there is no reason or place for jealousy.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Jan 20, 2014 02:31AM)
Well said Potty.
Message: Posted by: pbj100 (Jan 20, 2014 03:18AM)
I would like to add to this thread that often the we know little about the performers that critisize other performers or products. I think it is easy to assume jealousy when someone makes comments . But actually just because someone is realatively unknown to other magicians does not mean they are not very succesful on fact they could well be more than the person they are commenting on
It is not that difficult to become well known and assumed succesfull amongst magicians if that is your goal phil
Message: Posted by: mr shiney (Jan 20, 2014 04:41AM)
You have now made two threads pointing to the fact that some of us think that the great Z is not that great. (Successful yes no one is disputing that)
And because we don't were jealous that's just bolloc*ks
Think I Will make a thread about how some entertainers can't except that we all have different opinions and if we don't agree with there's were jealous
Let all not have opinion sit in a circle and agree
Message: Posted by: kimmo (Jan 20, 2014 04:58AM)
I think a lot of the sentiments expressed in Dynamike's post are admirable, but I really hope that this thread hasn't come about (as Mr Shiney pointed out) because a couple of people (me being one of them) gave an honest opinion of a DVD.

I love Tom Hanks and enjoy most of his movies, but I hated 'Joe vs The Volcano' and 'The Bonfire of the Vanities'. If I give an honest opinion of these films it doesn't mean I'm jealous or that I hate Tom or that I am showing 'negligence' towards him (whatever Dynamike thinks that word means).

Back when I was working for Supreme, Edwin gave me some advice when I was attending conventions reviewing other performer's acts for the Magigram Magazine:

'Always give them 9 out of 10, but if they are really, really bad, give them an 8'

We are such sensitive souls and it does nothing to help improve our art. I have come to learn that when most magicians ask for an honest critique, what they are actually saying is 'praise me'.

Everyone should be looking to improve their act, as Dynamike says. Rest on your laurels and some young upstart with a better show will come along and steal all your gigs, just the way it happened with him.

If we are going to talk about insecurity, look at the reaction a bit of honest criticism gets.

I enjoyed and learned from Eric's first DVD - I'm still a fan of his and I'm looking forward immensely to the upcoming TV show based on him. A TV show about a kids' Entertainer - how cool is that!.

He seems to understand this and took my critique for what it was. If others enjoyed the second DVD then that's great. Shout it from the rooftops! Just live with the fact that not everyone shares your opinion and we can all get along fine.
Message: Posted by: The Great Zucchini (Jan 20, 2014 07:07AM)
Kimmo, lol*I knew that my DVD would get criticism, my friend, no biggie. The only reason I posted at all wasn't because it was getting flamed, it was because Gary stated an untruth, and that was when I was like, 'whoa'. I want to meet you too. Have you ever been to DC?
BTW, on a separate note, Mr. Shiney, The random chaos and repetition is a planned, dissected thing on my part. I like having that look, in attire and props. Remember, before in DC, there was no Me-Nobody had seen an entertainer get away with not dressing up, etc. Never be afraid to be first and different. This is why I would work anywhere
Message: Posted by: The Great Zucchini (Jan 20, 2014 07:10AM)
I'm saying before me, there was no me, in DC. You can make any style work. Kimmo, would love you to come to live show
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Jan 20, 2014 07:13AM)
[quote]
On 2014-01-20 05:41, mr shiney wrote:
You have now made two threads pointing to the fact that some of us think that the great Z is not that great. (Successful yes no one is disputing that)
And because we don't were jealous that's just bolloc*ks
Think I Will make a thread about how some entertainers can't except that we all have different opinions and if we don't agree with there's were jealous
Let all not have opinion sit in a circle and agree
[/quote]
If it was the way you described I would have placed Eric's name in the title. I would have mentioned his name only in the thread. I was speaking in general. I did not mention any names, but myself when it comes to feeling jealous. I did name some individuals people could be jealous over.

The other thread I started was about does anybody see a difference in how the children are in UK and USA. I thought of posting that thread to see if anyone is going to agree with ML. I am glad with the comments everyone posted. Are you heated over the two recent threads I started?
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Jan 20, 2014 07:32AM)
[quote]
On 2014-01-20 05:58, kimmo wrote:
I think a lot of the sentiments expressed in Dynamike's post are admirable, but I really hope that this thread hasn't come about (as Mr Shiney pointed out) because a couple of people (me being one of them) gave an honest opinion of a DVD.

I love Tom Hanks and enjoy most of his movies, but I hated 'Joe vs The Volcano' and 'The Bonfire of the Vanities'. If I give an honest opinion of these films it doesn't mean I'm jealous or that I hate Tom or that I am showing 'negligence' towards him (whatever Dynamike thinks that word means).


[/quote]
I see nothing negative towards you. I never seen any signs of jealously or negligence from you either. Just because you are not interested in a DVD does not mean you are hating it. I did not like Chris Capehart' s routine with the Linking Rings. Others told me the same thing. It does not mean we are jealous of him or hate what he is doing. I think he pleases his crowds more than magicians with his rountine. It is hard to find his Linking Ring DVD for sell now. But his other DVDs I am in loved with.

When I mentioned "negligence" in my first post I was speaking in general. I did pause to think of a different word. I could think of the specific word I was referring to, so I just got lazy and pictured something in general. I am not a professional writer like Mindpro and Gary.
Message: Posted by: Potty the Pirate (Jan 20, 2014 07:47AM)
I'm curious about this alleged jealousy - of course, it's extremely common in all aspects of performance arts. It seems to me, there's a lot less backstabbing and jealousy in our little corner, than in musical theatre, for instance. Anyone who's ever attended West End auditions can vouch for that!

It does seem that frequently, when folks make criticisms, it's assumed that they are jealous. "Stuff and nonsense", I say!

As I've always said, I'm more than happy for folks to criticise my video clips and shows. The harsher the better, as far as I'm concerned, although it gets a bit silly if it's emotive, and non-constructive.

As Mark Lewis would point out, "it's better to be talked about, than not."

It would be great if everyone could be brutally candid when commenting on others' shows, but too many home truths are rarely accepted graciously. I think it's a cultural thing, British skin is thick as rhino hide, we don't go for sugar-coating everything.

;)
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Jan 20, 2014 07:51AM)
[quote]
On 2014-01-20 08:47, Potty the Pirate wrote:
I think it's a cultural thing, British skin is thick as rhino hide, we don't go for sugar-coating everything.

[/quote]
I didn't know Al was British. :)
Message: Posted by: NYCTwister (Jan 20, 2014 12:29PM)
In an attempt to bring the thread back on topic, and away from the brewing war, I've found that when I've felt jealousy it usually stemmed from a lack of self examination on my part.
As an example I started out as a clown back in the nineties. I got into entertaining by accident when, working in a place called Zak's Fun House, I filled in at the last possible minute for a clown who bailed on a show. I literally put on a complete white face in less then five minutes. You DO NOT want to know what that looked like.
My first show went amazingly well even though I had no experience. It was just a great crowd who just liked what ever I did. A perfect storm.
The point is I left there thinking I was the man, on par with anyone who booked shows from the place. That was as far from the truth as the earth is from the sun.
Anyway I put myself into the pool of entertainers, started getting shows, and quickly realized how little I knew. A few bad shows will humble you FAST.
Even though I learned quickly, got better, and got more shows I found that I was jealous of those getting more than me.
Jealousy is, in my opinion, one of the most toxic emotions a human being can feel. It damages only yourself. The other person probably knows nothing about how you feel.
It caused me to be completely blind to my own shortcomings.
It was only when I started comparing myself, in a good way, with those I was jealous of that I turned the corner. I realized that they were simply better.
They had more experience, had more polished shows, and deserved their success. That's when I started to stop being full of myself and realized that I wasn't a clown, or a magician, or a balloon twister. I was an entertainer. I was expected to be entertaining. It wasn't what I thought of myself it was what my audience thought.
My point (yes I actually have one) is that the person with the jealousy has a problem. A big one. They feel neglected and under appreciated but they're doing it to themselves.
That's why a highly skilled sleight of hand performer, who struggles after years to make 40k, is jealous of the far less skilled newcomer, who quickly flies past him in both popularity and monetary success. His jealousy blinds to the fact that, oh I don't know, maybe he's just not entertaining. He thinks that people should be in awe of his skill, failing to realize that they don't care. They just want to have a good time. It's actually ironic since his skill should be invisible.
Had it have been possible for me to see TGZ back in the nineties,especially if I learned about how much he makes, I would have been jealous.
Now, knowing what my REAL job is, I'd understand.
Frankly when I first saw him on YouTube my initial reaction was "what the hell". I thought "THIS is the GREAT Zucchini?" Props everywhere, and, not only no costume but shorts and a t-shirt. Come on!
But as I watched it took about ten seconds for me to realize that he is one of those who "just gets it". The kids were having a ball, and more impressive, he was controlling the pandemonium. Anyone who can keep fifty 3 year olds moving the way he wants them to must know what they're doing. Otherwise they smell blood and attack!
He understands what his job is and delivers brilliantly.
The same way Tommy James gets it, and JR gets it. Same market, different shows, different approaches, same results. Laughing, happy, behaving children and very satisfied parents.
If you're feeling jealous you really don't have to go further than the nearest mirror to find the real problem.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Jan 20, 2014 01:41PM)
I credit you with all my heart for being honest about your history. You are indeed a true man who is full of strength. I am proud of people like you. Thanks my friend.
Message: Posted by: TomBoleware (Jan 20, 2014 01:58PM)
NYCTwiste, very nice post. Excellent.

Yes, you can always find, not only the problem, but the answer too, in the mirror. ALWAYS.


Tom
Message: Posted by: NYCTwister (Jan 20, 2014 06:55PM)
Thanks guys.

The really sad thing was that, after I recovered from my "illness", those same performers turned out to be the nicest guys.
They freely shared their knowledge, even going so far as to accompany me on some of my gigs.
As a result I learned in minutes what would have taken much longer, if I ever learned it at all.
Message: Posted by: Starrpower (Jan 20, 2014 07:01PM)
I'm not at all jealous of other performers (and "negligence"? That one really threw me!) If anything, I feel like "If they can do it, so can I" and I am encouraged to try harder, emulate them, or at the very least try to figure out what I'm missing that made that lame-*ss performer successful.
Message: Posted by: The Great Zucchini (Jan 20, 2014 07:15PM)
Twister, amazing and real post. I appreciate your sentiments tremendously. Thanks for sharing
Message: Posted by: The Mighty Fool (Jan 21, 2014 02:18AM)
Great post Mike, but be warned: this trying to promote peace and understanding within humanity can be a dangerous business! I can think of 3 people famous for trying it--one in the 60's , one in the 40's, and one in the first century. 2 of them were shot, and the third...well...lets just say the other two got off easy!
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Jan 21, 2014 02:41AM)
LOL. Thanks for the warning. I'm keeping my head down low.
Message: Posted by: marjochan (Jan 21, 2014 03:40AM)
Great post Dynamike and I guess this is the calm before the storm. Just to add, where Iive, there are not many children's entertainers. However, when I started performing for financial rewards, one came out of the woodwork. He was a magician but did mainly adult stuff. I happened to perform at a child's birthday party and his child was also there. For my part, the party went well and I was booked for the following year. However, pretty much straight after this, the phone stopped ringing and when it did ring, it was to cancel a pre-booked party. Further investigations led me to the reason. My fellow magician had started a kind of smear campaign. His justification was that I was not a full time children's entertainer unlike him so my work was not at his high standards.

The truth of the matter is that he was jealous. Jealous that his son was entertained by another entertainer and jealous that his son also wanted me to perform at his next birthday party. It took me a while to get back out there and I now do 2 or 3 a month which is where I want to be as I do indeed do other things. I am sure I will bump into this person again as sadly the world has it's fair share of jealous people whether it is in the form of an internet warrior or just your regular Joe Bloggs.
Message: Posted by: magicgeorge (Jan 21, 2014 08:46AM)
All the people I'm jealous of are awesome entertainers so instead of slagging them off I make friends with them...
Message: Posted by: JamesinLA (Jan 21, 2014 11:51AM)
Marjochan,
That's a horrible story.
Message: Posted by: marjochan (Jan 22, 2014 02:15AM)
Thank you JamesinLA. That's life I guess. Now that my magician friend has started doing kids parties, there is a little less work for me, but I am happy to say that the ones I do get, give me further bookings. Not so bad for somebody who is just 'part time' The best bit is that his show is completely different to mine. His is mainly magic. Mine is music, dance and magic, more of a short journey for the children for a couple of hours. It works well for me. I'm not sure it would work as well for him.
Message: Posted by: The Great Zucchini (Jan 28, 2014 11:19PM)
Twister, amazing and real post. I appreciate your sentiments tremendously. Thanks for sharing