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Topic: The Law ??
Message: Posted by: Natas (Feb 21, 2014 12:58PM)
So when I was looking around for info on becoming a hypnotist I came across info saying that your not aloud to do it here in the uk / N Ireland. You need to be aloud by the district to do it in a pub and you cant do it on the street at all. . . . . Is that right ??
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Feb 21, 2014 07:15PM)
Only if you follow the law. Some of us feel you have no obligation to follow a bad law. Or move down south of the border. We have no regulations here.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Feb 22, 2014 06:53AM)
If you are a criminal then all laws are bad. I happen to think its a good one. And you are allowed to do stage hypnosis so long as you follow the safety guidelines. And now insurance is becoming very affordable so there are no excuses. its not a problem. The problem now is there are so many bad hypnotists around.
Message: Posted by: SolidSnake (Feb 26, 2014 01:00PM)
You could perform hypnosis and then show to any authority that what the law says is hypnosis does not exist and is not what you are performing.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Feb 26, 2014 05:12PM)
Love to hear how you get on please go ahead.
Message: Posted by: Gordon the discombobulator (Feb 27, 2014 03:08AM)
It is wrong to say that you are not allowed to perform hypnosis in the UK.

The 1952 Hypnosis act prohibits unlicenced demo/performances in a public place (E.g. theatre, pub, and arguably street)
You need to get a permit from the local authority. They will ask to see proof of your insurance and other documents before granting a licence. The licence is for a specific venue at specified dates/times.

For private functions, say by invite to someone's house, you don't need any permit.

If you are in contact with the public, in any branch of performing art, then it is sensible to carry some form of public liability insurance.
Most insurers will exclude hypnosis so ask around for those that do include it.
The Equity union, also offers a hypnosis insurance option for their members.

N.B. If you are performing on the street you are more likely to stopped by the local authority or police for not having a busker's licence.
Message: Posted by: JonChase (Feb 27, 2014 06:39PM)
The 1952 Hypnotism Act does Not Prohibit Hypnosis anywhere.

I've spent money on legal advice and have letters from my MP so listen up.

The act gives power to licence Hypnosis shows to the local authority who issues entertainment licences for the area the demonstration of hypnosis takes place.

The authority doesn't have to, and a lot don't bother.

The law makes it illegal to perform a show as, or attached to, and entertainment in a place licensed for entertainment or not.

So the performer is obliged by law to seek a licence. They only break that law if they don't apply.

The local authority can ban anything from occurring in it's area unless that goes against your human rights.

As for street hypnosis if there is no attempt to gather an audience or perform for payment [busk] you can hypnotise anyone who asks you to.

And as Gordon says, private parties in private houses are exempt, however private parties in places licensed for public functions or entertainment or public places you should be licensed.

It is interesting to note that no one has been prosecuted under the 1952 act for performing without licence. However it is still a law and should be obeyed as should all laws no matter how stupid them appear to be.

The cheapest insurance, where you don't have to join a club to get it, is from Mark at mark@musiciansinsurance.co.uk
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Feb 28, 2014 04:13AM)
[quote]
On Feb 27, 2014, JonChase wrote:
However it is still a law and should be obeyed as should all laws no matter how stupid them appear to be.
[/quote]
That is an opinion not shared by everyone. One of the joys of being in a democracy is our freedom to challenge stupid laws. It often begins, as Gandhi showed, with civil disobedience. Ignoring stupid laws is a good start.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Feb 28, 2014 08:03AM)
Gandhi was a stage hypnotist?
Message: Posted by: MRSharpe (Mar 2, 2014 10:43AM)
I've just completed a course in hypnotherapy and am now a certified hypnotist. The thing to be careful of, and the reason some countries/ districts/states have laws regulating hypnotist is twofold. 1) The misconception on the part of many people that hypnotism can be used to control others against their will. We know this is nonsense, particularly in an entertainment context. 2) There is a chance, since about 15% of the population can have a mental condition--diagnosed or otherwise--that can be aggravated under hypnosis. For example, someone with a phobia regarding heights, elevators, or stairways could have an adverse to certain inductions. Also, schizophrenics, psychotics, those with bipolar disorder, some O/C disorders and others could have their disorder manifest while induced. This is important and is the best reason for insurance and knowledge about how to recognize these disorders. Any hypnotist--therapist or entertainer--would be prudent to learn how to recognize those who should not be induced just for self protection.
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Mar 2, 2014 01:34PM)
[quote]
On Feb 28, 2014, mindpunisher wrote:
Gandhi was a stage hypnotist?
[/quote]
Yes - and you stole his haircut.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Mar 2, 2014 05:05PM)
Actually we are related he was great great uncle of mine...
Message: Posted by: JonChase (Mar 6, 2014 12:13PM)
I'm curious MRSharpe. How does one 'recognise' a schizophrenic or BiPolar sufferer in a stage environment?
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Mar 6, 2014 04:38PM)
That's easy the best bet is on it being the hypnotist..
Message: Posted by: Gordon the discombobulator (Mar 10, 2014 04:53PM)
You don't need to be a hypnotist to get bad reactions from an audience.

I was doing a simple one-ahead fake mindreading trick for a group of teen girls in a pub. I came to one girl and asked her to think of a 'little white-lie she had told her parents or something she had never told her parents.'

I usually expect answers such as "I smoked cigarettes" or "I told them I was at a friends house."

I pretended to write her thoughts when I saw she had burst into tears.

After lots of tears, and hankies and girls running off to the toilets it turned out she just found out she was pregnant.

Not exactly the mindblowing mentalism finale I was expecting.
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Mar 10, 2014 08:06PM)
Very good point Gordon. And a rotten experience. A bit of a downer.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Mar 11, 2014 09:15AM)
You just don't know who you have in front of you when it comes to the public.
Message: Posted by: thementalcoach (Mar 16, 2014 02:35PM)
This is so true. When doing age regression demos in front of my Hypnosis Meetup Group, I watch my volunteers like a hawk. That's so I can shut down their regression at the display of any negative emotion (tears beginning to trickle is a good example). I believe that part of any hypnotist's training - stage or clinical - should be in fast and effective ways to shut down undesired abreactions.

[quote]
On Mar 11, 2014, mindpunisher wrote:
You just don't know who you have in front of you when it comes to the public.
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: Shrubsole (Mar 22, 2014 06:24PM)
Let's head-butt this from another angle:

Why are hypnotists not clubbing together to get this old law taken of the statute books?

It does seem rather unfair as there are many acts that could put an audience in danger but are not forced by law to be licenced.
For example a magician could do an act which included a 'spike' type routine and even use an audience member's hand to smash the bags.
He can do all of that and is not forced to get any licence and does not have a whole act devoted to him.

Now of course insurance and a full health and safety assessment is extremely sensible in everyone's public act no matter what it is, but that isn't the point here. The point is why is this 62 year old act still around that forces you to have a licence (and by that insurance) when no other normal general pub/club act requires one?

So no issues about the good of having insurance, full health and safety in place or whether you chose to follow the law or not, but why this law for just one form of entertainment?

And all based on what they thought and knew about hypnosis 62 years ago.
Message: Posted by: Shrubsole (Mar 22, 2014 06:31PM)
[quote]
On Mar 6, 2014, mindpunisher wrote:
That's easy the best bet is on it being the hypnotist..
[/quote]

HA! Many a truth spoken in jest!
Message: Posted by: Shrubsole (Mar 22, 2014 06:36PM)
[quote]
On Mar 11, 2014, mindpunisher wrote:
You just don't know who you have in front of you when it comes to the public.
[/quote]

Exactly my point above, but only hypnotists have been singled out to have a whole act about them and forced upon them.

Lots of acts where things could go wrong and lots of weird audience members: yet it's just us that need keeping an eye on.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Mar 22, 2014 08:28PM)
The view is hypnosis is open to abuse more than most other acts. It was reviewed only a few years back so its not really an old view point its relatively up to date. Although I think any magician that performs the spike risking a spectator should be prosecuted will certainly be sued if it goes wrong. I wonder if their insurance would cover such a moronic thing to do? I wouldn't be surprised if there were loop holes the insurance companies would use to get out of paying.
Message: Posted by: Shrubsole (Mar 23, 2014 05:47AM)
Well of course doing 'spike' with an audience members hand is totally moronic, but it does and has happened. And of course, insurance for any act is the very height of common sense, but you don't see page after page of people talking about insurance for magic acts, simply because they are not forced into having it if they wish to perform their act legally.

Decades ago I even ran a karaoke for a couple of years and had PLI which covered me for a million or so. They couldn't even get electrocuted on the mics as they were wireless!

"open to abuse more than most other acts" - Whilst I agree that is what they think, it's a funny view to have. I mean we've had decades of musicians sleeping with intoxicated underage girls after the gig, so are we really the biggest audience abusers around. still?
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Mar 23, 2014 06:15AM)
At least the girls were "conscious" of the fact they had slept with them.:-) I actually once went out with a girl during the start of the witch hunt in the 90s. her friends warned her about hypnotists and she actually believed that I had hypnotized her to sleep with her!

There is a belief and some expert opinion that hypnosis can cause psychological and emotional problems or make existing ones much worse as well as the dangers of someone hurting themselves because of not being in control.

Ive tested hypnosis after shows in small clubs many years ago when I was starting out leaving in suggestions that the hypnotist was really attractive and that they would buy me drinks hang around me and idolize me after the show. And they did! and Im pretty sure they would have taken it to the next step if I hadn't removed the suggestions. ( then again maybe they did idolize me)

Hypnosis is different from other types of shows. Whether to license it or not is a decision made by the government I doubt it will change anytime soon.

On the other hand its becoming so easy to get a license and many councils won't even bother and insurance is now a lot more affordable so its not really a big problem anymore The big problem is there's no money in it anymore. Its hardly worthwhile doing shows if you want to make a living from it. And the real dangers if there are any are from those dabble so I think the license is not totally a bad thing. If you are doing it professionally and making money then its all good? And you no longer have to pay nearly a grand to get insured you can get it from around 200 which you would get back on your first show or gig.
Message: Posted by: Gordon the discombobulator (Mar 23, 2014 01:15PM)
My worry with the government withdrawing the 1952 Hypnosis act is that they replace it with something else equally silly.
e.g.
All hypnotists must be licencened.
All hypnotists must have attended a 10 week training course.
All hypnotists must be registered professional medical practitioners.
Hypnosis for entertainment purposes must have the full written consent of the participants and be coutersigned by their GP.
Message: Posted by: wulfiesmith (Apr 1, 2014 12:09PM)
Possessing a great interest and enthusiasm in hypnotherapy, I was in the process of studying to become a professional hypnotherapist in the UK.
However, in this modern-day "who-to-blame" and sue culture, I decided not to go ahead.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Apr 1, 2014 03:20PM)
You will be fine for hypnotherapy that's not an issue. Finding enough clients to keep you going will be though. Most therapists struggle to get clients don't be fooled by claims of big earnings by those teaching courses. Its mostly Bs.At least in the UK.