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Topic: Hypnotic PRETESTS?SUGGESTIBILITY TESTS EBOOK
Message: Posted by: Jesse Lewis (Mar 24, 2014 10:22AM)
Hello Everyone,

Over the years I have developed a facination with pretests/suggestibility tests for use both on and off stage. Recently I decided to compile my research and knowledge into a two volume set called the pretest progression.

These can of course be used for every type of hypnosis situation but I think are best suited to performance hypnosis. I use them on stage but they could be used on the street. If you would like to take a look at them they are each available for $7 and her is the link:

VOLUME 1- 12 pretests suggestibility tests
http://showbizsuccesssecrets.com/store/the-pretest-progression-hypnotic-pretests-volume-one/

Volume 2- 18 more pretests/suggestibility tests
http://showbizsuccesssecrets.com/store/the-pretest-progression-hypnotic-pretests-volume-2/

Thank you to those that take a look.
Jesse
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Mar 24, 2014 10:28AM)
Pretty Vague descriptions on the page. It would be interesting to learn more about what is included or some video. Kind of blind ad copy.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Mar 24, 2014 10:57AM)
It is an odd subject to me. The man who taught me used a HUGE number of people on stage. He did 3 sets of pre tests and he used them to weed people out even prior to the induction process based on how well they did on the tests. He used the eyelid test, the hand locking, and the jaw locking. That was back in 1950 or so right up until the 80s when he retired from the stage.

Now for me, and this is just me, I have eliminated them entirely. I have found the best pre anything is to educate them, excite them about the process and just being "willing" is the best pre test possible.

I do not use them because it can be sort of a "self weeding out" process if they do not do well on them. It takes up WAY too much time in my show that I am not willing to donate to this process. As I said for me the best pre test is simply having them excited about the process.
Message: Posted by: Jesse Lewis (Mar 24, 2014 11:54AM)
Hey Mindpro,

Valid question about what it includes that is below. I am actually working on a Video series of all of these as well which may be released later as a sperate product as a lot of work will go into it.

Each book is a basic overview of what the effec is and the basic patter to achieve it. Of course there will be a learning process for anyone who chooses to perform them. One important thing I wanted to note is that they are all relitivly safe and do not involve people being stood on or laying on the floor.

Inside the books.

Volume one
Intro
Mindset
Pretalk basics

The pretests include:
1. Light and heavy hands
2. Magnetic hands
3. Body part movement test
4. Laughter Test
5. Pen Lock
6. Impossible to get up from floor
7. Unable to bend leg
8. Stuck hand
9. Basic name amnesia
10. Fingertip sticking
11. Fingertips will not touch
12. Missing Number

Volume 2

A magicians story.

Pretests include.
2. Steel Arm
3. Lemon Test
4. Hand to forehead
5. Open Mouth
6. Stuck mouth
7. Stuck Foot
8. Impossible to stand up from chair
9. The invisible rubber band
10. Locked hands version one
11. Locked Hands version two
12. Locked Hands Version Three
13. Locked eyes
14. Fall Onto a Chair test
15. Magnetic fingers
16. Fall backwards
17. Fall Forwards
18. Lean any direction test

Danny, I agree with you about the self weeding out process often pretests can d this and sometimes that is the very reason to use them in my opinion.
This series of Ebook is not nessecarily only for stage either though. The ebooks are designed with 4 sets of people in mind:

Performing Stage Hypnotists that want to use pretests
Magicians and Mentalists That want to incorporate "hypnosis" into their effects.
Street Hypnotists (they do a lot of pretests anyway and this will give them more tools.)
Hypnotherapists who like to use pretests and want to build their tool box.

I know that for many the books will be a good "starting point" and for others a good reminder of what is possible without hypnosis at all just pretests.

And for the price of $7 per ebook it is well worth it.
Volume one is: 27 pages
Volume 2 is 25 pages
It is recomended that a person buys book oone first if they have no experience with hypnosis.

It is just information I wish I had back in the day when I was first learning and I also think I would want it as part of my collection today if I had not written it.

Thanks guys for the comments and questions.
Jesse
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Mar 24, 2014 01:08PM)
IT seems to me you are confusing many terms here. You do amnesia as a pre test? Missing numbers as a pre test?

I get so confused.
Message: Posted by: Jesse Lewis (Mar 24, 2014 01:56PM)
Hi Danny,
As we all know hypnosis is confusing, so many different minds so many different opinions and this is often the reason for such arguing here in sleepy.

For me personally, as a pretest I do both amnesia and missing numbers as pretests- specifically designed and facilitated as one on one pretests usually following another pretest. There is No need for formal "hypnosis" for either one.

Please keep in mind not every pretest is "foolproof" like magnetic fingers. Some are genuine Hypnotic Phenom and others are what people belive the old standard pretests are supposed to be.

An example of this is Kreskin, he has done both missing numbers and missing name all without formal hypnosis and other things like hot chair falling forward and falling backwards too.

I personally class these as pretests pre hypnosis tests that may include hypnosis but are not nessecarily formal hypnosis. What others class them as is up to them and indeed up to you.

Personally my definition of a pretest/suggetibility test is any hypnotic phenomena that can be perfromed without formal hypnosis. Indeed with some performers this could in fact be their whole show.

What is in the books could as easily be performed on stage, in the street, or even in the therapy room to offer "proof" that hypnosis exists. Is that not all that a pretest is.

What do you personally class as a pretest within your mind what is your criteria for one?

I and many others I am sure would really like to know.

Jesse
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Mar 24, 2014 02:23PM)
Without formal hypnosis isn't my point.

Never mind. Good luck with the books.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Mar 24, 2014 02:38PM)
Agree, good luck with them, but they seem a bit magic-y or magician-y rather than targeted fr the hypnosis community. It may easily get limped in with all of this new stuff that is passing of basic and elementary suggestibility tests as hypnosis.

I'd be interested in hearing a review form a non-magician, performing stage hypnotist.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Mar 24, 2014 03:04PM)
This is why hypnosis is becoming such a confusing market place. people coming up buy books or programmes from people who don't really understand the subject or are just learning themselves. And those coming up have no way of evaluating what they are buying.

This is a silly idea for a book. It really is - a "pretest" is just part of a complete process a tool to get to a more defined outcome of haveing a complete show.

half of these items are not really pre tests they are basic phenomena usually elicited early on in a show structure as part of the conditioining for the "bigger" phenomena or suggestions later on.

This reminds me of some of the street "hypnotists" that get off when they shout sleep sdnap their fingers and someone slouches forward with their eyes closed as that's all they really want to do. I never really understood this.

I only use a hand clasp because its quick impressive and does help find the best subjects fast, Ive never had the need to use anything else. I don't even think of it as a "pre-test" its part of the process of getting people on stage and taking part effectively and quickly.


its never been a major focus. The focus for me and most hypnotists I know has always been "how do I deliver a show that brings down the house?" "how do I market such a show so it gets bums on seats and makes money?"

Whatever your goal is with hypnosis ( even for a magician)if you focus on "pre tests" then its like trying to drive and get to a destination by staring at your foot on the clutch. Makes no sense. Plus there are hypnosis products out there that have all the pre-tests in them all ready as part of a complete programme.

Even if you are a magician wanting to add some hypnotic content you will do much better by studying the complete process. then working out how to adapt it to an act that blows people away. A book that shows how to do that may have some value.
Message: Posted by: Jesse Lewis (Mar 24, 2014 03:56PM)
Gentlemen I respect all of your opinions. You are the guys who are a main part of this forum and deserve that respect.

But please keep in mind: There are those who just want to be able to do a few pretests and yes pass them off as hypnosis. There are also those who wantr a reference to all of the pretests available. and yet there are others who want to change up their shows with different pretests than what they are used to.

Mindpunisher, as for being new and not understanding hypnosis, six years full time as a stage hypnotist making good money in the "tall grass" areas speaks for itself. I know what hypnosis is to me and have no intention of starting an argument. This is all I do Stage Hypnosis nothing else.

I thought the books would be either a good intorduction to the easiest part of hypnosis or as a reference for pros in the field. It is as simple as that.

Have a wonderful day everyone.
Jesse
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Mar 24, 2014 04:11PM)
If that is so then why is it you don't know the difference between "pre-tests" and basic or light phenomena? And if all you ever want use are "pre-tests" then they aren't really pre-tests anymore as you aren't using them as testsfor something else to come.

Like I said there are good products that already have all the pre-tests you could imagine or ever need.

Whatever hypnosis means to you then that'sfine but its confusing for everybody else.

A book showing you how to use these things in a different way might have some real value though. Its so easy to just list things or regurgetate hypnosis and sell it as another product. We could all do it on here spit out a few products by rehashing old stuff. In fact that's what happens mostly to the point where its saturated with crap. Why not focus on raising the bar? Im not wanting to argue with you either if you are going to create yet another product why not challenge yourself to creating something new?
Message: Posted by: Jesse Lewis (Mar 24, 2014 04:18PM)
Mindpunisher,

I respect your thoughts enjoy being you and have a wonderful day.

You are correct in the sense that once they are actually the end result they are not technically "pretests." A better description would be a suggsestibility test.

Please do not be disrespectful to me and my intelegence or understanding as I have not been disrespectful to you.

As stated earlier we all think hypnosis is different from existing to not existing to different phenommena.

I hope you have a truly fantastic day.
Jesse
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Mar 24, 2014 04:29PM)
Its not disrespect its clearing up confusion for everybody. And I am serious about suggesting you try raise the bar on whats already out there. Shouldn't we all be doing this if we want to release products? Why not be inspired and give it ago?
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Mar 24, 2014 04:46PM)
Six years does not seem that long no matter the length of the grass.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Mar 24, 2014 04:51PM)
Jesse, I think you may be misinterpreting a bit of the concerns here. I think most here that are performing hypnotists have the same or similar beliefs and attitudes towards what hypnosis is, how it is utilized and the role it plays in a performance. Also regarding the perception of how it is performed.

But the topic of the content of your ebooks sparks the many perceptions that have crept into the world of performance hypnosis that many dislike, dispise or even may feel are part of the demise or cheapening of our art.

On a bigger note, I'd like to know more about Showbiz Success Secrets. While I am the first to believe in material for ENTERTAINERS rather than specified types of performers (kids entertainers, closeup magic, balloon artists, hypnotist, etc.), I'm all for it. I think it is one of the reason most performers fail, is they approach it as their specified discipline rather than actually being a full-fledged, all-encompassing entertainer. Big difference.

Yet I also think an underlying concern is when somebody relatively new to the industry (6 years) begins to come off as a mentor, guru, or authority. Especially when at first glance the materials seem to be simply rehashed, beginner level content. I hope you can see the point I'm trying to offer rather than being personally offended. I'm also talking in general, rather than just specifically these ebooks or you specifically.

I'm not convinced that pre-tests or suggestibility tests will help anyone with actual hypnosis training and performing experience. This then therefore leaves "wanna-be's" or "pseudo-hypnotists" (which often are nothing more than magicians presenting tricks with a hypnosis theme or angle, appearing and stating to the audience that it is in fact hypnosis. This is of great concern as it discredits the industry and perpetuates this type of activity instead of taking a stance against it. Just from your writings (and I know nothing about you) it seems you are a magician, working from a magician's point of view. Correct?

As you can imagine it then becomes quite offensive to those of us actually doing this professionally for a living that are faced with the credibility issues of hypnosis on a daily basis.

I hope you may be able to better understand some of the sentiments here. Btw, where are you located and what performance markets do you specialize in?
Message: Posted by: Jesse Lewis (Mar 24, 2014 04:52PM)
MindPunisher, Fair enough and thank you for clarification.

That was actually the point of the project to raise the bar on one specific aspect of hypnosis.

While other sources do have the information and may infact have more information, the purpose of this project was singular: To write a specific PRETEST book that could be easily accessed and understood. While in some peoples views these are not all nessecarily pretests they can all be done without hypnosis.

It is possible that the confusion stems from the actual title tself, if I had called it NO HYPNOSIS HYPNOSIS TRICKS it would have been better, but I also do not think hypnosis should be a trick. Knowing that I also realize there are those out there that want to do these "tricks" so I wrote a book on how to perform and do them effectivly.

It is simply not meant to be a full on how to do stage hypnosis guide just pretests.

Jesse
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Mar 24, 2014 04:55PM)
" I think most here that are performing hypnotists have the same or similar beliefs and attitudes towards what hypnosis is, how it is utilized and the role it plays in a performance. Also regarding the perception of how it is performed."

This was generally speaking, as there are a few here who may differ.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Mar 24, 2014 05:10PM)
Yeah but Tony is Irish hes different about everything in the world so that doesn't count :-)

But we don't want to change him!
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Mar 24, 2014 05:17PM)
I won't weigh in on this debate. At one time I did pre-tests. Then I dropped them completely. Now I use one, as much for theatricality as for actual use. In close-up and strolling situations though, I do use them. So I might be tempted by this product. Jesse, when some reviews come in, can you let us know?

I could buy this now and discover that it is great for magicians, but as a hypnotist I know it all already. Or I could find that you have put something new into this. The reviews might tell.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Mar 24, 2014 05:25PM)
Tony I agree completely that was the point of my first post. I use one for theatricality, and it is on the entire audience. It in NO way is used to weed people out as because I have stated the best pre test is for them to be willing.

I really don't want to be in a measuring contest about it. I just get confused when people don't seem to understand terms then write books. We have a language that has been agreed upon. It is what it is.

As I said good luck with it.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Mar 24, 2014 05:32PM)
However being willing doesn't always mean you have the best subjects. But you are right the more willing the better. The handclasp is a useful tool but not always 100% accurate either as to the best subjects. Weeding people out to leave the best is a skill you can't be taught its something you learn as you have to do it fast on your feet. The hand clasp also raises expectation and makes your job easier.

But that's all you would ever need. You probably could leave it out but I think at least for me that would be counter productive. And I also do it with all the audience it really adds to the building tension which is half the battle anyway.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Mar 24, 2014 05:46PM)
OH willing is NOT 100% accurate, but again nothing is. It is a starting point though.

You are right about not needing more than a hand clasp.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Mar 24, 2014 05:50PM)
Weeding people out to leave the best is a skill you can't be taught its something you learn as you have to do it fast on your feet. The hand clasp also raises expectation and makes your job easier. You can have people who are susceptible to hypnosis but rubbish in terms of being entertaining. Finding the stars fast is a big part of the skill.


I think maybe a different title " the Magic of Suggestion" would be much more fitting. How to use suggestion to enhance your magic and blow the minds of your audience and get your clients re-booking you over and over. I would extend the book to cover using suggestion in order to improve the structure of your presentations and delivery to maximize the effect your audience experiences. Also use suggestion in your marketing as well as the main use of effects. To me that would make absolute sense and be a worthy contribution. I already do this for business clients and it results in them making sometimes 100s of thousands in increased sales and contracts. But you would really need to know how to use suggestion at this level. So here comes the challenge.....are you willing to truly raise the bar and develop yourself to a level that has value for others? Are you willing to do what it takes? Its very doable if you put your mind to it. I would do something like this myself if I were indeed interested. but I'm not. But I am currently and have been for many years applying this to subjects that do interest me. Ive struggled with it for years but now I am starting to make real money from it.

I say this not out of respect but hopefully to stimulate some creative thinking and get to another level of focus. I do believe there is room for good products but only when we become bigger ourselves in terms of what we are reaching for. Just putting a list together is not enough in my opinion but that's just me. I would also use video in a membership site type of platform so everything could be demonstrated. that's the way its going these days.
Message: Posted by: Jesse Lewis (Mar 26, 2014 10:36PM)
Mindpunisher

It is really funny that you mention things about a membership site and further training as the books were not even close to the intended end of this. Videos were planned a while back for each "test". It really is just a matter of time before it is more complete.

I hope all that have purchased enjoy and realize what they have. It is a bit more indepth than just the pretests.

Jesse