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Topic: What do you say or do if a hypnotic induction your doing doesn't work?
Message: Posted by: kasper (Apr 16, 2014 06:05PM)
What do you say or do when your hypnotic induction doesn't work? For instance when doing a stiff arm induction or when they pull there hands apart when you tell them they are stuck together? I understand you can do soft tests to see where they are at and progress from there to test your work. But if you tell them " See if you can pull your hands apart." And they actually do. Do you just congratulate them and move on from there? I understand you do simple tests and then work up to more difficult tests. But what do you do or say when when the particular induction doesn't work?
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Apr 16, 2014 07:25PM)
[quote]On Apr 16, 2014, kasper wrote:
if you tell them " See if you can pull your hands apart." And they actually do. [/quote]

That's where you would dismiss them.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Apr 17, 2014 04:41AM)
My name is Paul Mckenna good night!
Message: Posted by: Jesse Lewis (Apr 17, 2014 08:54AM)
Several Options:

1. If in a group dismiss them or as I call it the culling of the herd
2. If one on one move on to another almost fool proof test (magnetic fingers or magnetic hands)

The other possiblility is that you have the wording wrong, the word try implies failure so instead of saying "see if you can pull your hands apart" instead say now in a few moments I want you to try to pull your hands apart but I want you to make sure that they are stuck and you are ready, they will not come apart no matter how hard you try try only when you are ready I want you to try on the count of three 1 2 try try and stop trying.

This is a devious method both in wording and in confusion the try implies failure but you also never give them a chance to try by not saying the word 3 during the count.

One must always keep a bag of tricks in your arsenal to prevent failure.

Jesse (authour of the pretest progression)
Message: Posted by: Gordon the discombobulator (Apr 19, 2014 11:14AM)
I tell them it HAS worked !
They appear confused. They cannot remember being hypnotised.

I then do some pseudo-mindreading tricks and use the (failed) hypnosis to explain how, under hypnosis, I left a suggestion that they should pick, say, the 10 of hearts but they wont recall that I said that.
I have used that technique a few times as a convincer. It gets them thinking - have I or haven't I been hypnotised ?
I then suggest they relax and we can enter the hypnosis state again.
Only this time we will skip the hand lifting, or finger touching, and just "close your eyes and relax" This time we need to concentrate more and go into a deeper sleep, blah, blah, etc.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Apr 19, 2014 11:40AM)
This sounds very discombobulated to me. Perhaps proper training in the answer you are seeking. Sounds like a bunch of babble double talk to me - just the opposite of what hypnosis should be.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Apr 19, 2014 11:47AM)
It sounds like someone worried about their own ego.

People are not stupid. It might make you feel better but it usually makes you look very desperate.
Message: Posted by: Gordon the discombobulator (Apr 19, 2014 12:10PM)
The point I am making is that most people don't have a clue what is expected to happen during hypnosis.
How do they know if they have or have not been hypnotised ?
How do they know what suggestions were made under hypnosis ?
How do they know if they are supposed to remember anything ?

Then when strange things happen later (e.g. from a free choice they actually picked the card I predicted) I claim that they were hypnotised to make that choice.
Once I have them thinking they HAVE been hypnotised I find it easy to take them into real hypnosis.

But then that is just the way I mix magic, mindreading and hypnosis in a table hopping/walkaround setting.
The purists would argue that you should not mix the different things.. but hopefully not on this thread.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Apr 19, 2014 12:36PM)
If you can actually do hypnosis there would be no need to mix with magic or create pseudo hypnosis. Again, if you are actually doing hypnosis the answers to your four questions would be provided. You are the hypnotist, you control this.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Apr 19, 2014 03:31PM)
Well confusion is not magic. As it works out it is not hypnosis either.

You are faking it at best. Feel free to keep doing it. Though it might seem that the only one hypnotized into thinking something is happening that is not might be you.

Hypnosis is not about faking it, stretching definitions or anything of the sort. As I said people are not stupid. If they have seen a hypnotist before they know full well you are making things up. Why not learn to do it for real?

It looks exactly like what it is. A guy who failed trying desperately to come up with an out or an excuse for it.
Message: Posted by: Gordon the discombobulator (Apr 19, 2014 05:02PM)
I do it for real !!! and I have hypnotised many, many people.

This thread is about what to do when it sometimes fails.
When it fails I am not desparate. I find this 'out' often works.
Yes people are not stupid - but for some people, on some occasions, this approach works.

Remember that in a close-up scenario I cannot send them back to their seat or dismiss them. I am still there to entertain them as a magician, mindreader, or hypnotist. Making them think, later on, that the hypnosis might have worked gives me another chance to try hypnotising them again with them in a slightly different frame of mind.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Apr 19, 2014 05:33PM)
Spoken like a true magician - lol
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Apr 19, 2014 07:05PM)
No kidding.

"Hey that hypnosis stuff didn't work so pick a card... oh by the way the reason you picked that card was I hypnotized you".
Message: Posted by: Gordon the discombobulator (Apr 19, 2014 07:39PM)
A bit more sophisticated than that Danny but essentially yes.
Don't knock it. It works. They buy into the idea.

"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?" Sherlock Holmes.
Message: Posted by: Jesse Lewis (Apr 19, 2014 08:11PM)
Gordon the biggest issue I think is that you have just turned hypnosis into a magic trick. Many still believe that that hypnosis is really the only true magic out there and should not be downgraded to card tricks. I cannot say they are wrong in this assumption.

Jesse
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Apr 19, 2014 10:43PM)
I am making no such assertion.

I am saying it makes you look transparent and desperate. Quote Arthur Conan Doyle all you like it does not make a stupid card trick any better.

Also do you expect that them to believe all the other card tricks are done by hypnosis? The veil is pulled away pretty quickly on how poor an idea this really is.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Apr 19, 2014 11:41PM)
I love these posts where the original poster never reappears.
Message: Posted by: Gordon the discombobulator (Apr 20, 2014 05:43AM)
I think we may have frightened the original poster away.
In true Magic Café style we have turned an innocent post into something else. Sorry.

I don't do cheap or desparate. There is a grey area between some strong magic effects and hypnosis. I would never suggest the '21 card trick' could ever be the result of hypnosis but please take a look at 'Cerebral Steal' by James Brown then tell me that card tricks and hypnosis cannot be skillfully melded together or that magic and hypnosis cannot co-exist. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7veB5srRRhQ I do the presentation a bit differently with a more serious less jokey and mysterious angle but it is powerful stuff.

In response to the orginal poster's question all I am suggesting is that some very strong magic can be explained away as the result of earlier (failed) hypnosis and can then give you another, often successful, route back to hypnotise them again. The purists who think that magic and hypnosis cannot co-exist will disagree.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Apr 20, 2014 06:08PM)
There is no such Gray area.
Message: Posted by: Johannes L. (Apr 20, 2014 07:32PM)
[quote]On Apr 17, 2014, mindpunisher wrote:
My name is Paul Mckenna good night! [/quote]

Haha!

You can spot it fairly easy before it happens. Especially with e.g. Hand stuck to the table, if you word it "As you slowly* try to unstick your hand now, you'll notice that it stick even harder."

* When you say slowly just look for how their hand moves, if they really struggle to even lift it a bit, you keep throwing the stick suggestion.

You can see all kind of small movements that indicate if your suggestions are indeed working before coming to the finale, i.e. You'll not be able to lift your hand.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Apr 21, 2014 10:49PM)
Awwww
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Apr 22, 2014 12:43AM)
Wahhh wahhhh wahhhh.

Sorry Mark my bad.
Message: Posted by: Johannes L. (Apr 22, 2014 07:23AM)
What happend?
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Apr 22, 2014 07:29AM)
Busted & banned!
Message: Posted by: Johannes L. (Apr 22, 2014 08:05AM)
[quote]On Apr 22, 2014, Mindpro wrote:
Busted & banned! [/quote]

Mark?

Why was he banned in the first place?
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Apr 22, 2014 11:28AM)
Which time? It's become an art for him - too many times to list. Give it a few, click your heals together three times chanting his name and he seems to magically reappear.
Message: Posted by: Johannes L. (Apr 22, 2014 12:36PM)
[quote]On Apr 22, 2014, Mindpro wrote:
Which time? It's become an art for him - too many times to list. Give it a few, click your heals together three times chanting his name and he seems to magically reappear. [/quote]

What was the first reason? Isn't he V.I.P?

I think he is hilarious of what I've read posted by him.
Message: Posted by: Marmen (Jul 22, 2014 11:30AM)
Yes indeed. He is a genius that is very hard to get rid of. Ironic since he doesn't understand computers.