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Topic: Average IQ? Personality Profile? of the typical Magician?
Message: Posted by: ihave (Apr 25, 2014 06:20PM)
I can't wait to see the response on this!
Message: Posted by: RobertlewisIR (Apr 25, 2014 11:20PM)
Probably about the same as the average population, really. Magicians are an odd bunch in many ways, but there's nothing about magic that makes one more or less intelligent than anyone else.

Well, I suppose we might score a little high on one subscale of a standard IQ test: namely, spatial reasoning. We're accustomed to things like angles of sight and depth perception, so we might have an edge in spatial reasoning just due to training. But overall, no, I don't think there's much difference between us and any other profession. We'll have our geniuses and our morons just like lawyers or plumbers or anyone else.
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Apr 26, 2014 11:05AM)
So, RobertLewisIR

If you have recurring (hey! is that a high IQ word?) dreams of eating shredded wheat, don't sleep on a straw mattress.

I'll have you know that I've been called a genius. Trouble is that the guy who called me a genius, wore a size 6 hat and a size 12 shoe.

BTW:::What's a "subscale"? My first guess was something that they weighed submarines on. Then I thought maybe it was a scale that they weighed those long sandwiches on. OOPS, I just did a "Charlie Miller" twice. (I used a preposition to end a sentence with.) OOPS,I did it again. That is something up with which I shall not put.

On my first day in first grade, the teacher told us: "2 and 2 = 4". The second day, she said, "3 and 1 = 4". I raised my hand and said, "Please, MAKE UP YOUR MIND! She never called on me again for the rest of the year.

Why do rabbits have shiny noses?
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Apr 26, 2014 11:07AM)
B'cuz their powder puff is on the wrong end.
Message: Posted by: Theodore Lawton (Apr 26, 2014 02:08PM)
But rabbits don't carrot all. :bunny:
Message: Posted by: danhughes (Apr 29, 2014 10:13PM)
I'd have to disagree with your conclusion, Robert. I think there are a lot more geniuses (geniusi?) in magic than in many other careers. And I think the average IQ of the magic community is higher than the average IQ of the rest of the world.

Evidence:

Most magicians have an extensive knowledge base of what has gone before. They know who the pioneers were, and what they have done. They go out of their way to give credit to the originators of effects and presentations. Plumbers couldn't tell you who invented the pipe wrench.

Magicians have a rare determination to put in the time to learn an effect. They will work for hours, weeks, even years to perfect their moves. "Normal" people will give up long before they have mastered the back palm or the slide.

The very fact that magicians went into magic in the first place is a strong indication that they have that sense of wonder that is lacking in the general populace. Magicians must be more coordinated than the average person, they must be actors (in the highest sense of the word), they must have the intestinal fortitude to risk ridicule in front of a live audience....

Few other professions demand a richer variety of such sought-after skills and talents as a magician must master.

Moron magicians? How long would they last? (Unless being a moron is part of the act.)
Message: Posted by: Ado (Apr 30, 2014 12:28AM)
[quote]On Apr 29, 2014, danhughes wrote:

> Most magicians have an extensive knowledge base of what has gone before. They know who the pioneers were, and what they have done. They go out of their way to give credit to the originators of effects and presentations. Plumbers couldn't tell you who invented the pipe wrench.
[/quote]

Well, ask around who's invented the "ultra move" or the "shuttle pass."
Every now and then, a company specialised in magic edits a DVD with a "new" move that's been around for decades.
Most magicians have no idea who invented the FP, the classic pass, the DL, the t** change, or the palm.
Most magicians probably don't care where tricks come from, provided they can wow their audience by doing them, and won't be able to tell you where all the moves they are using come from.

On the other hand, anyone with a master's thesis will have "extensive" knowledge of the field they were studying. And I reckon there are more people with a master degree than people doing magic today.


[quote]
Magicians have a rare determination to put in the time to learn an effect. They will work for hours, weeks, even years to perfect their moves. "Normal" people will give up long before they have mastered the back palm or the slide.
[/quote]
Normal people don't play instruments. Normal people don't draw or paint. Normal people don't have any hobby. Or do they?
I can tell you that many magicians don't work hours to perfect their moves. Or I've met the wrong people my whole life. Or they are just very bad at getting any return on investment. I don't even see a couple of good DL per year in the streets, mostly a lot of "hey, I'll fold the top card 90 degres to get a break, and put half my pinky in it, while looking at my hands" kind of perfected moves.

In fact, I really like the music analogy. If musicians were as devoted to mastering anything as magicians, I woulnd't have bought many CDs...


[quote]
The very fact that magicians went into magic in the first place is a strong indication that they have that sense of wonder that is lacking in the general populace.
[/quote]
Except for all the people who delve into all sorts of arts, from writing to painting, via singing and floral arrangement.

[quote]Magicians must be more coordinated than the average person, they must be actors (in the highest sense of the word), they must have the intestinal fortitude to risk ridicule in front of a live audience....
[/quote]
Again, I've seen more bad magicians on stage than bad violonists and pianists.
And I can tell you first hand that playing and instrument takes a lot of coordination,

[quote]
Few other professions demand a richer variety of such sought-after skills and talents as a magician must master.
[/quote]
Are those skills and talents really sought after?
And what are they? Acting, dexterity, and accounting?

[quote]
Moron magicians? How long would they last? (Unless being a moron is part of the act.)
[/quote]
People don't stay around magicians. They see you at most one evening, and really spend time with you for something like 15, hopefully rehearsed, minutes. They don't get to see one is a moron, but they could if they interacted more. You can actually afford being a moron, because people don't have to deal with you regularly, unlike a physician, or a concierge.



My conjecture is that the distribution of magicians is even across the population, and thus that the average IQ of magicians is 100.

P!
Message: Posted by: danhughes (Apr 30, 2014 07:22AM)
Ado, the magicians you discuss and the magicians I am familiar with are two different groups.

I've never seen a street magician; the only exposure I have is to those on television (rarely), those who pass through town and do one-offs (maybe once a year, if that), those who have written books and/or done videos, and those who post on these boards.

I have seen some really bad YouTube stuff that fits your description well, but I wasn't thinking of those fools when I said "magicians." When you add them to the mix, you are right. The intelligence level drops like a rock. I was looking only at the cream of the crop.

Thanks (I think) for bringing me down to earth.
Message: Posted by: Kbuck54 (Apr 30, 2014 09:17AM)
You can't call all of those those on Youtube, Magicians.
So the average IQ goes back up, if you ask me.
Keith
Message: Posted by: MRSharpe (Apr 30, 2014 04:29PM)
The average IQ of magicians taken as a whole is, well, average.
Message: Posted by: RobertlewisIR (May 4, 2014 10:57AM)
Dan is talking about the true professionals, which is great--they're the ones worth considering anyway. But in doing so, we need to consider the true professionals in every field--and in every field, the average IQ of the best professionals is going to be higher than the general population. I'm not trying to put magicians down--I just don't see anything about magic that either makes one smarter or attracts smarter people. I fancy myself an extremely intelligent person, and I love magic. But for everyone who meets that description, there's some idiot bumbling through it. We don't want to think of that person, but he surely exists.

The best magicians are extremely intelligent people. The worst magicians are idiots. And the same can be said of scientists, artists, mathematicians, authors, engineers, chefs, historians, teachers, mechanics--anything, really.
Message: Posted by: danhughes (May 4, 2014 12:12PM)
One point to consider, Bob - all those careers you mentioned (scientists, artists, mathematicians, etc) are pretty high-level careers. What about laborers, fast-food workers, etc? Putting magicians on that list you just posted makes magicianship a most impressive calling!
Message: Posted by: DWRackley (May 5, 2014 01:03PM)
Another question I’d be interested in (if it were even possible to know) is how many are “challenged” with some form or degree of “Asperger-like” psychological condition? This would include things like highly selective (obsessive?) attention span, social ineptness, and difficultly handling “new” or unrehearsed situations.

“Aspies” generally score well on standardized tests, but few accomplish “real world” success. Those who do are quite remarkable. ( [url=http://www.disabled-world.com/artman/publish/article_2086.shtml]Famous People with Asperger’s Syndrome[/url] )

I’ve always suspected many of us, at least in the beginning, actually sought magic as a sort of crutch to help establish social interactions.
Message: Posted by: Photoboy (May 10, 2014 11:40AM)
What is considered average first off?
Message: Posted by: DWRackley (May 10, 2014 09:27PM)
Half the people I know are above average!
Message: Posted by: danhughes (May 10, 2014 09:34PM)
I don't like to brag, but when I took the SAT, I finished in the top 97%!